Authoritarian Prisons; (imagine that) -- The Plantation Model
Cliff
Is there any RWA research being done - or planning to be done -- in
the prison industry? It seems to me that this is one area of
employment that attracts RWAs like flies around a Bush Poop Flag.
I've never seen such bullies. Wardens must be at the top of the
scale. Many are right-wing religious conservatives, hell-bent on
punishing society's reprobates, who get their jollies talking down to
everyone in pinstripes and sneering at chaplains, educators,
counselors and the sundry "bleeding heart liberals" who would waste
their time on the damned.
Can any of you remember that sardonic sneer Governor George Wallace
had on his face standing on the Steps of the University of Alabama?
When Forest Gump asked, "What's going on?" and a student demonstrator
replied, "Those Negroes want to go to school with us!" Forest
expressed his incredulity, "They doooo?" Well, ever since I asked
our warden why he slashed my substance abuse education budget to $Zero
and he responded, "I don't care if you give them a Big Book {of AA}
and send them back to their cells," I've been asking myself why I
accepted a job in a private prison in West Texas that warehouses
foreign nationals for deportation and what the hell possessed them to
come to the United States?"
While addicts and alcoholics seem to be the current scapegoats of Law
& Order Fascism since the Reagan years, there is a growing
authoritarian obsession with "those criminal illegal aliens crossing
our borders." Migrant workers are now facing felony charges and
prison terms for simply crossing the Rio Grand River despite that
recent research reveals they are more law abiding than the general
population of U.S. citizens. I suppose they are trying to "fly under
the radar."
If "survival of the fittest" has any worth at all as a scientific
principle, migrant workers should be paid to stud California "valley
girls," both having survived the desert -- geographically on the part
of the masculine former and culturally on the part of the feminine
latter -- while having to endure hoots, hollers, shouts, whistles and
jeers or being shot at by either deer riffles, middle fingers or
spewing Budweisers by Minutemen, evangelicals and pandering
politicians. Think of the super race the Nazis could have created
could they have conquered L.A.
Forgive the side trip. How utterly free-spirited of me to impose such
a fantasy world on others!
Private prisons, such as those run by CCA and The GEO Group, by
seeking more and more ways to squeeze the budget for profit, are
gutting education, substance abuse treatment and job training
programs, resulting in enormous increases in recidivism rates.
And why should they care? Recidivism means their "customers are
coming back for more" - great for bid'ness! In California, rates are
so high and available "bed space" so low that the "Gubanator" had to
start paroling inmates at a rate last month that is scaring his poor
RWA sheep into dead-bolting their amygdale glands. This most recent
strategy comes in the wake of last year's failed strategy to stack a
third bunk on top of the two already in each cell. So now, it's
either turn them out or face the ire of federal judges determined to
enforce humane overcrowding laws at the same time preventing the
housing of inmates in tents after issuing them pink underwear and pink
uniforms, like the notorious sheriff in Phoenix.
Prisons are being built at a rate the states can no longer fund now
that we are tied-up with the economic burden of projecting our
authoritarianism at the level of world empire, Guantanamo and Abu
Ghraib notwithstanding. Some are now even calling the U.S. "a prison
nation." I just came from another thread wherein an academician
voiced his fear of saying too much least someone figure out his real
world identity and turn him into the American thought-police at NSA.
Conversely, based on anecdotal observation of inmates, it seems that
prisons are being crammed full not just with addicts and alcoholics
who should be in treatment programs instead; but also, with youthful
personalities not presenting the traditional "anti-social personality
disorder" expected of them, but who are simply in a life-long "rage
against the machine." Society and it's Discontents are becoming
increasingly rebellious against the abusive authoritarian
personalities found everywhere in their lives - in the family, in
schools, in the workplace, in government, in the media, in the bars,
on the courts and even in churches. Jeezus, James Dean can't even get
attention for all the acting-out going on.
Ironically, it has become a battle in the streets for the very
psychological autonomy that is the highest goal of the American
Spirit....when not chasing the dollar.
So much for The Enlightenment.
[Steps down off soap box of righteous indignation while still enjoying
his day off against the will of the deputy warden and returns to the
question]
Is the prison venue being considered for research?
rosenhw
Robert Hare and and Martha Stout may be your best reads for the psychology of that personality. John Douglas is another from the law enforcement point of view. Phillip Zimbardo is good from the social psychology angle.
Other than their obsessive obedience in the voting booth, I don't see authoritarians, as such, being the main problem. It is their fringe elements that are so devastating. After all, 65-85% of everybody is authoritarian to some degree with traits valuable for accounting, engineering, medicine, the military, commercial pilots, quality management and the like.
Read Stanley Milgram for that percentage range...
There are other research projects that also need to be done:
Why, exactly, do nations differ so much in their violence?
Why do cities within nations differ so much in their violence?
Obviously some societies are getting some things right. What?
Bob Thompson
http://www.doc.state.ok.us/offenders/ocjrc/95/950725C.HTM
Carrie wrote:
It is interesting that you mention the "sociopathic fringe of authoritarians" that are approximately half of the offenders incarcerated for violent offences. I am currently working in a forensic psychology lab so psychopathy is talked about quite a bit. I have never actually read a study (mind you, I haven't looked either) that measured authoritarianism in psychopathic offenders. When I saw the above phrase in your message it really struck me, as one of the pieces of the definition of psychopathy (according to Hare, anyway) is a deviant lifestyle involving violation of social norms (which may or may not involve crime). So I suppose when one is concerning psychopathy in violent criminals I see this more as a rejection of authority and not so much authoritarian. However it would be interesting to see a study that looks at authoritarianism in that population. Cliff - you do raise an interesting point about authoritarianism among prison employees. I would particularly be interested to see the rates among correctional officers. I also found your experiences in a prison interesting, as I find it is quite the opposite where I am. I live/ work in Canada though, so that may account for the differences in our experiences in working in a correctional facility? On Feb 1, 11:42 am, "rosenhw" <rose...@amargosa.net> wrote:
rosenhw
My bet on the officials is that their AP average is above that of the population they come form
Most APs, according to Milgram, are moderate to strong, with a couple of "outliers" who were ice cold, without feelings about what they did.
If the AP is genetic, and I think at least the propensity is, is it reasonable to think of the AP tendency as having a range from none to a total that ends with the sociopath--the tail of a distribution? I would be interested in what you and others think.
Harry
rosenhw
Do you have the journal reference?
Thanks
Harry
> -------Original Message-------
> From: Bob Thompson <thomp...@mchsi.com>
> Subject: [theauthoritarians] Re: Authoritarian Prisons; (imagine that) -- The Plantation Model
> Sent: 01 Feb '08 19:29
>
> Reminds me of a paper I ran into while doing research for a jail task
> force I was on:
>
> [LINK: http://www.doc.state.ok.us/offenders/ocjrc/95/950725C.HTM]
> http://www.doc.state.ok.us/offenders/ocjrc/95/950725C.HTM
>
>
> Carrie wrote:
>
> It is interesting that you mention the "sociopathic fringe of
> authoritarians" that are approximately half of the offenders incarcerated
> for violent offences. I am currently working in a forensic psychology lab
> so psychopathy is talked about quite a bit. I have never actually read a
> study (mind you, I haven't looked either) that measured authoritarianism in
> psychopathic offenders. When I saw the above phrase in your message it
> really struck me, as one of the pieces of the definition of psychopathy
> (according to Hare, anyway) is a deviant lifestyle involving violation of
> social norms (which may or may not involve crime). So I suppose when one is
> concerning psychopathy in violent criminals I see this more as a rejection
> of authority and not so much authoritarian. However it would be interesting
> to see a study that looks at authoritarianism in that population. Cliff -
> you do raise an interesting point about authoritarianism among prison
> employees. I would particularly be interested to see the rates among
> correctional officers. I also found your experiences in a prison
> interesting, as I find it is quite the opposite where I am. I live/ work in
> Canada though, so that may account for the differences in our experiences
> in working in a correctional facility? On Feb 1, 11:42 am, "rosenhw"
> [LINK: mailto:rose...@amargosa.net] <rose...@amargosa.net> wrote:
>
> It is the sociopathic fringe of authoritarians that occupy something like
> half the prison space given to violent criminals. Robert Hare and and
> Martha Stout may be your best reads for the psychology of that personality.
> John Douglas is another from the law enforcement point of view. Phillip
> Zimbardo is good from the social psychology angle. Other than their
> obsessive obedience in the voting booth, I don't see authoritarians, as
> such, being the main problem. It is their fringe elements that are so
> devastating. After all, 65-85% of everybody is authoritarian to some degree
> with traits valuable for accounting, engineering, medicine, the military,
> commercial pilots, quality management and the like. Read Stanley Milgram
> for that percentage range... There are other research projects that also
> need to be done: Why, exactly, do nations differ so much in their
> violence? Why do cities within nations differ so much in their violence?
> Obviously some societies are getting some things right. What?
>
> -------Original Message------- From: Cliff [LINK:
> mailto:chamm...@mztv.net] <chamm...@mztv.net> Subject: [theauthoritarians]
rosenhw
I am hooked on the subject as well. This is my sixth year researching the roots of violence in humanity. The more places I look, the more leads I get to the sociopaths and their ilk as being the root system feeding violence. My late wife, a psychologist, put me on to Adorno and MIlgram right after 9-11. From there I was off and running into my retirement years. I began doing serous research for a living some 53 years ago; it now looks like I will never stop.
Anyway, Milgram had this to say:
"If a system of death camps were set up in the United States of the sort we had seen in Nazi Germany, one would be able to find sufficient personnel for those camps in any medium-sized American town."
These people vote in US elections, and Canadian too, so they comprise a real danger. My tentative take is that sociopaths arousing the authoritarians--Hitler being the stereotype, followed by the likes of Pol Pot an Bagasora--to genocide are the worst of the worst, the deepest of the roots of violence.
I have a website where I post my research on all this in real time: http://www.roadtopeace.org/index.php
It will never be complete because humanity is a moving target and my time is not infinite. Early posts are dated though I try to keep the more important pages updated. I hope to turn its essential features into a book later this year.
Harry
> -------Original Message-------
> From: Carrie <carrie.t...@usask.ca>
> Subject: [theauthoritarians] Re: Authoritarian Prisons; (imagine that) -- The Plantation Model
> Sent: 01 Feb '08 20:11
>
>
> Bob - Thanks for the link - very interesting study. It would nice to
> replicate it with a sample of psychopathic offenders.
>
> Harry - the more time I ponder the relationship between psychopaths/
> sociopaths and authoritarianism, particularly in violent offenders,
> the more interesting the question becomes. I do not know if I would
> say they are at the tail of the AP distribution, but it's an
> interesting thought. I suppose in my own mind I have never really
> linked psychopathy and AP, but your reference to the Milgram studies
> makes a fascinating point about how they could be inter-related.
>
> Carrie
>
> On Feb 1, 2:02 pm, "rosenhw" <rose...@amargosa.net> wrote:
> > Thanks for the insights Carrie
> >
> > My bet on the officials is that their AP average is above that of the population they come form
> >
> > Most APs, according to Milgram, are moderate to strong, with a couple of "outliers" who were ice cold, without feelings about what they did.
> >
> > If the AP is genetic, and I think at least the propensity is, is it reasonable to think of the AP tendency as having a range from none to a total that ends with the sociopath--the tail of a distribution? I would be interested in what you and others think.
> >
> > Harry
> >
> > > -------Original Message-------
> > > From: Carrie <carrie.tanasic...@usask.ca>
> > > Subject: [theauthoritarians] Re: Authoritarian Prisons; (imagine that) -- The Plantation Model
> > > Sent: 01 Feb '08 18:53
> >
> > > It is interesting that you mention the "sociopathic fringe of
> > > authoritarians" that are approximately half of the offenders
> > > incarcerated for violent offences. I am currently working in a
> > > forensic psychology lab so psychopathy is talked about quite a bit. I
> > > have never actually read a study (mind you, I haven't looked either)
> > > that measured authoritarianism in psychopathic offenders. When I saw
> > > the above phrase in your message it really struck me, as one of the
> > > pieces of the definition of psychopathy (according to Hare, anyway) is
> > > a deviant lifestyle involving violation of social norms (which may or
> > > may not involve crime). So I suppose when one is concerning
> > > psychopathy in violent criminals I see this more as a rejection of
> > > authority and not so much authoritarian. However it would be
> > > interesting to see a study that looks at authoritarianism in that
> > > population.
> >
> > > Cliff - you do raise an interesting point about authoritarianism among
> > > prison employees. I would particularly be interested to see the rates
> > > among correctional officers. I also found your experiences in a prison
> > > interesting, as I find it is quite the opposite where I am. I live/
> > > work in Canada though, so that may account for the differences in our
> > > experiences in working in a correctional facility?
> >
Bob Thompson
1995 Oklahoma Criminal Justice Research Consortium Journal
rosenhw
> -------Original Message-------
> From: Bob Thompson <thomp...@mchsi.com>
> Subject: [theauthoritarians] Re: Authoritarian Prisons; (imagine that) -- The Plantation Model
> Sent: 01 Feb '08 21:20
>
> 1995 Oklahoma Criminal Justice Research Consortium Journal
>
> rosenhw wrote:
>
> Very interesting paper Bob. Do you have the journal reference? Thanks
> Harry
>
> -------Original Message------- From: Bob Thompson [LINK:
> mailto:thomp...@mchsi.com] <thomp...@mchsi.com> Subject:
> [theauthoritarians] Re: Authoritarian Prisons; (imagine that) -- The
> Plantation Model Sent: 01 Feb '08 19:29 Reminds me of a paper I ran
> into while doing research for a jail task force I was on: [LINK: [LINK:
> http://www.doc.state.ok.us/offenders/ocjrc/95/950725C.HTM]
> http://www.doc.state.ok.us/offenders/ocjrc/95/950725C.HTM] [LINK:
> http://www.doc.state.ok.us/offenders/ocjrc/95/950725C.HTM]
> http://www.doc.state.ok.us/offenders/ocjrc/95/950725C.HTM Carrie
> wrote: It is interesting that you mention the "sociopathic fringe of
> authoritarians" that are approximately half of the offenders incarcerated
> for violent offences. I am currently working in a forensic psychology lab
> so psychopathy is talked about quite a bit. I have never actually read a
> study (mind you, I haven't looked either) that measured authoritarianism in
> psychopathic offenders. When I saw the above phrase in your message it
> really struck me, as one of the pieces of the definition of psychopathy
> (according to Hare, anyway) is a deviant lifestyle involving violation of
> social norms (which may or may not involve crime). So I suppose when one is
> concerning psychopathy in violent criminals I see this more as a rejection
> of authority and not so much authoritarian. However it would be
> interesting to see a study that looks at authoritarianism in that
> population. Cliff - you do raise an interesting point about
> authoritarianism among prison employees. I would particularly be
> interested to see the rates among correctional officers. I also found your
> experiences in a prison interesting, as I find it is quite the opposite
> where I am. I live/ work in Canada though, so that may account for the
> differences in our experiences in working in a correctional facility? On
> Feb 1, 11:42 am, "rosenhw" [LINK: [LINK: mailto:rose...@amargosa.net]
> mailto:rose...@amargosa.net] [LINK: mailto:rose...@amargosa.net]
> <rose...@amargosa.net> wrote: It is the sociopathic fringe of
> authoritarians that occupy something like half the prison space given to
> violent criminals. Robert Hare and and Martha Stout may be your best
> reads for the psychology of that personality. John Douglas is another from
> the law enforcement point of view. Phillip Zimbardo is good from the
> social psychology angle. Other than their obsessive obedience in the
> voting booth, I don't see authoritarians, as such, being the main problem.
> It is their fringe elements that are so devastating. After all, 65-85% of
> everybody is authoritarian to some degree with traits valuable for
> accounting, engineering, medicine, the military, commercial pilots,
> quality management and the like. Read Stanley Milgram for that percentage
> range... There are other research projects that also need to be done:
> Why, exactly, do nations differ so much in their violence? Why do cities
> within nations differ so much in their violence? Obviously some societies
> are getting some things right. What? -------Original Message-------
> From: Cliff [LINK: [LINK: mailto:chamm...@mztv.net]
> mailto:chamm...@mztv.net] [LINK: mailto:chamm...@mztv.net]
