Forum Subscription New Topic Notification ( Blue Room technical forum ) (fwd)
Charlie Richmond
AndyL has just posted a new topic entitled "BRITISH ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY LAUNCHES ?SAVE OUR SOUND UK? CAMPAIGN" in forum "Sound".
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(IMAGE: http://web.me.com/saveoursound/saveoursound/Save_Our_Sound_files/sos%20header%20V4.jpg)
http://www.saveoursounduk.com (BRITISH ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY LAUNCHES ?SAVE OUR SOUND UK? CAMPAIGN )
Yesterday, 10th November 2009, 21 major organisations representing the breadth and depth of the British Entertainment Industry launched a campaign calling on the Government to act to secure the future of live music, newsgathering, musical theatre, film making, television production, sports events, concerts, conferences (including party conferences) and church, school and community events in the UK.
All of these activities, that benefit everyone either directly or indirectly, are under threat. This is because Ofcom, supported by Government, has decided to clear out and sell the radio frequencies that the industry relies on, and move those evicted elsewhere. The precise location of this new much smaller ?home? remains for the most part undetermined. Meanwhile, all proceeds from the sale of the old ?home? will go to the Government.
As a consequence of the enforced ?migration?, the vast majority of the UK?s valuable stocks of wireless microphones, which are essential tools for content production in the creative industries and beyond, will become unusable. If the activities and events listed above are to continue, then all affected equipment will need to be replaced at a stroke. This will cost tens of millions of pounds.
If the Government does not provide adequate funding to cover the costs, then live music, newsgathering, musical theatre and other events including those listed above are likely to become impossible to stage. There is little doubt that companies will go bust, individuals will go bankrupt, employees will be made redundant, and charitable and community organisations will have to divert funds from core services.
The impact will be so severe due to the fact that the UK?s pool of equipment for professional use is generally owned by small specialist firms and individuals that supply to end users when required. These businesses work to very tight margins and either cannot, or will struggle to cover the cost of replacing entire inventories. If they are forced out of business, which is likely under current proposals, then all productions that depend on their equipment and expertise will be under threat.
Read more at: http://www.saveoursounduk.com (www.saveoursounduk.com )
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Charlie Richmond
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 09:52:55 +0000
From: Blue Room technical forum <bo...@blue-room.org.uk>
To: char...@richmondsounddesign.com
Subject: Forum Subscription New Topic Notification ( Blue Room technical forum )
charlier,
Pattern123 has just posted a new topic entitled "Best overstage relay monitor Microphone?" in forum "Sound".
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We are just having a new control booth constructed at our School and the architects in their infinate wisdom have made it 'completely sound proof' (they even complained when I asked for a mousehole to be cut to allow cable runs that it would compromise the soundproof barrier! But that's another story)
In order to hear what's going on in the control room we will therefore need some monitor and an overstage Mic of some kind to relay the sound. Does anyone have any suggestions as to a relatively inexpensive condenser with a broad pickup pattern? I was thinking maybe Rode NT1, but it's a bit big and clumsy for the job. I believe I've also seen Audio Technica AT8004's and MB4K's being used in various venues, but I'd be grateful for examples that work well, it is in a large 1920's open school hall, though I would suspend it behind the border over the stage at approx 5M above the stage.
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John Leonard
between the architect and/or the end-user and consequently the need for a
separate sound operating position outside of the control room is not
considered. Control rooms should indeed be as soundproofed as possible: in
many small theatres, it's where the show is called from and the lighting
operated from and it's not acceptable for the audience to hear cues being
called during a show.
It's also a fact that many 'doorbell & dog-bark' effects shows no longer
have a separate sound operator, as has been discussed on this list recently,
with the function being carried out by the show electrician or
stage-management, who just button-push and have no other means or
opportunity of controlling relative levels and therefore no need to hear the
show accurately.
The failure comes, as in this case, when an additional area is not made
available within the auditorium for the live operation of sound and this is
almost always down to 'real-estate' considerations, particularly in smaller
spaces.
Thankfully, the days of consultants being completely out of touch with
reality are slowly passing and this type of thing happens relatively rarely,
which means that I, as a frequent end user of new buildings, do not have to
be quite so excessively rude about some of the brain-dead idiots who have in
the past called themselves theatre consultants, which is nice.
In the case of this particular person, he/she should rent or borrow a
selection of microphones, get a good quality small mixer or mic pre-amp with
some EQ and a compressor built in, spend a bit of money on some decent
powered speakers and do some experimentation. Personally, I've never found
over-stage mics to be much use for anything and would rather go for a pair
of cardioids either side, or even something like a PCC 160, which is usually
my standard go-to microphone for temporary stage-management show relay.
Regards,
John
(who would dearly love to know what happened to the pair of vintage Neumann
microphones that were used as show relay mics in his first ever theatre...)
On 12/11/2009 09:57, "Charlie Richmond" <char...@RichmondSoundDesign.com>
wrote:
Chip
> It's absolutely amazing that architects are still doing this today!!
>
>
>
instead of a live performance space. After all they both use mics and
stuff.
Chip
Dan Mills
> Maybe the architects thought they were designing a recording studio
> instead of a live performance space. After all they both use mics and
> stuff.
I have a theory that they think theatre == Movie theatre where a well
soundproofed projection room is a good thing!
Film projectors are noisy buggers.
I loved the way ours managed to convert "Mixing Desk" into "Mixing
Table" on one set of plans.
Regards, Dan.
Richard B. Ingraham
> -----Original Message-----
> From: theatre-s...@googlegroups.com [mailto:theatre-sound-
> li...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Dan Mills
> Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 1:31 PM
> To: theatre-s...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [theatre-sound-list] Re: Forum Subscription New Topic
> Notification ( Blue Room technical forum ) (fwd)
>
> I loved the way ours managed to convert "Mixing Desk" into "Mixing
> Table" on one set of plans.
So did they put a blender, a food processor and a kitchen sink in the plans
too then?
Sorry... couldn't resist.
Although I guess if the consultants were that incompetent, I would rather
they just put in a table where I can place the equipment I want, rather than
pick out a piece of crap mixing console that wouldn't fill the needs at
hand. Maybe you should count your blessings? LOL.
I just don't grasp how this shit keeps happening and organizations pay these
people. The old saying about a sucker comes to mind.
Although I've have gotten to see it first hand, where a major new facility
is designed and built, by a MAJOR player in the theatrical architecture and
consulting world, and they never talked to the faculty and staff that
actually was going to be using the new space. Just don't get it. I cannot
imagine working that way as a consultant. Guess that's why I don't get the
big bucks. :-)
Richard B. Ingraham
RBI Computers and Audio
http://www.rbicompaudio.20m.com
Marty
Do not place your monitoring mic upstage of a border. You will only
hear what's going on on the stage; probably OK for the stage manager,
but horrible for the sound op. The Sound Op needs to hear the "total
sound" of the performance: sound FX, dialogue, audience response, band,
recorded music, etc. So, place the monitoring mic 1/3 way back in the
house over the audience. And make sure it's away from all speakers,
especially any center cluster! Otherwise you'll be hearing any
amplified sound way out of proportion to the actual sound in the house.
And Good Luck! Please remind me that I don't want to work as the Sound
Op in your house.
--
***********************************************************************
Martin John Gallagher
Portland, Oregon; United States
M.J.Ga...@comcast.net
Professional Web site: http://www.mediadwarf.com/dwarf/
***********************************************************************
Brad Weber
> charlier,
>
> Pattern123 has just posted a new topic entitled "Best overstage relay
> monitor Microphone?" in forum "Sound".
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> We are just having a new control booth constructed at our School and
> the architects in their infinate wisdom have made it 'completely sound
> proof' (they even complained when I asked for a mousehole to be cut to
> allow cable runs that it would compromise the soundproof barrier! But
> that's another story)
>
> In order to hear what's going on in the control room we will therefore
> need some monitor and an overstage Mic of some kind to relay the sound.
> Does anyone have any suggestions as to a relatively inexpensive
> condenser with a broad pickup pattern? I was thinking maybe Rode NT1,
> but it's a bit big and clumsy for the job. I believe I've also seen
> Audio Technica AT8004's and MB4K's being used in various venues, but
> I'd be grateful for examples that work well, it is in a large 1920's
> open school hall, though I would suspend it behind the border over the
> stage at approx 5M above the stage.
One cannot really assume that this was necessarily the Architect's fault,
they could have been directed by someone in the school administration,
likely the Architect's direct client, to make the booth soundproof or it
could have been a Value Engineering recommendation by a Contractor that the
Owner accepted. Since an enclosed booth so is not a violation of any
building code or Standard, there is no real legal or liability justification
to prohibit such direction or decisions. However, since at least one
response seemed to use them intermixed, "Architect" and "Consultant" are not
necessarily the same thing, in fact it sounds like this Architect maybe
should have hired a Consultant. Just because a firm is a good Architect does
not make them qualified to design all types of spaces, a good Architect will
know when they need help and include qualified Consultants as part of their
design team. That does not mean everything the Consultant recommends will
come to fruition, but hopefully there is at least another voice trying to
push things in a better direction.
An over stage mic will not represent what the audience hears unless the
audience is also over the stage. My first choice to address this situation
might be a digital console with wireless remote mixing via laptop or tablet
PC, that way you could sit in the audience and mix based on what the
audience hears. Otherwise you might try to get a mic out in the audience
space, I like to use a PZM mic or a Crown SASS on balcony fronts or
something like that as that provides a better representation of what the
audience experiences from both the natural sound and the house sound system.
And then some nice neutral sounding monitors in the booth on a delay to
match when the natural sound would arrive there. You'll still want to learn
the room and how what you hear in the booth differs compared to what is
heard at various locations in the room, but it is a start.
Brad Weber
muse Audio Video
Marietta, GA
Charlie Richmond
> imagine working that way as a consultant. Guess that's why I don't get the
> big bucks. :-)
I would imagine any consulting firm would gladly hire you, Richard! And we
would all be much better off for it too!
Charlie
Frank Bradley
> (who would dearly love to know what happened to the pair of vintage
> Neumann
> microphones that were used as show relay mics in his first ever
> theatre...)
>
>
>
>
>
some years ago at the Gate, a pub theatre in London, which was then so short
of money that you paid to work there, I discovered a Beyer M160 ribbon mic
being used as the show relay pick-up (£350 plus).
Frank
Jim vanBergen
Steven Devino
Steve Devino
-----Original Message-----
From: Marty <M.J.Ga...@comcast.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 12:26:28
To: <theatre-s...@googlegroups.com>
Joe Wilson
~joe
Sent from my mobile device
_________________________
Joe Wilson, ATD/Sound
Indian River State College
Adding one more "me too" to the
collective internet consciousness.
Frank Bradley
> May you guys across the pond have better success in this than we have over
> here.
>
in the UK, with the following leader comment on its editorial page:
"With the possible exception of Britney Spears and Madonna, few would die
for a wireless microphone. But you would be wrong to think it is not a
subject capable of stoking passion. Much of the live entertainment industry
in Britain, along with sports events, conferences and community events, will
be affected by an Ofcom plan to auction off the radio frequencies upon which
the industry depends. The frequencies, known collectively as channel 69,
were originally exempted from the large block of spectrum being freed up as
the country switches from analogue to digital TV. But such is the potential
value of this prime bit of frequency real estate for mobile broadband that
the government could not resist kicking the entertainments industry off this
channel. Ofcom plans to move all current users on to a different channel,
but that is not the point. In the process, everyone will have to throw away
their old radio mics and buy new ones. This is worth tens of millions of
pounds, and Ofcom is promising to refund only the residual value of the
equipment it is junking, not the replacement value. Many involved in live
music are operating on low margins and, in the case of charitable and
community organisations, no margins at all. Much of the equipment is owned
by small, specialist firms, which could go bust. One of two things has got
to happen. Either Ofcom extends the period left to use microphones on the
old frequencies, or the government should pay up."
At least someone is reading the press releases
Frank
--------------------------------------------------
Ken Newman
Anyone have any experience with the program "RF Guru" by Stage Research?
It appears to have pretty much the same features as the IAS program by
Professional Wireless, but at a CONSIDERABLY reduced price.
So I wonder if it's REALLY anywhere near as good as IAS???
Thanks!
Ken Newman
snd...@watamix.com
Kirk Longhofer
whim when they had a very cheap intro price.
Clearly a beta product. Didn't even have the Shure UR-1 in it's library of
transmitters. Had some real issues with lag and slowness.
I think it will be great when fully developed.
kdl
Mitchell Greenhill
> PLEASE edit unnecessary text out of your reply.
>
> To unsubscribe or set your delivery options, see the web page:
> http://groups.google.com/group/theatre-sound-list
>
> Please take non-theatre-sound topics to private email.
>
Augie Propersi
So my first impression is that it is not as good IAS
But it does work
Ken Newman
Considering it's something like 1/10 the price of IAS, I wouldn't expect it
to be nearly as complete in terms of features, but I would hope that it
would do the same calculations to determine if there will be interference or
not.
Do you think it performs the basic function of avoiding
interference/coordinating frequencies properly?
Thanks!
Ken Newman
snd...@watamix.com
Augie Propersi
radios and had I had no problems, I also use the Sennheiser program (which
is free)
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Newman [mailto:snd...@watamix.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 11:15 PM
To: theatre-s...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [theatre-sound-list] RF Guru?
Kirk Longhofer
it's going to be a great product, and maybe fairly soon.
I got an Email from the company over the weekend, telling me that a new
update will be made available today that addresses the lag issues I
mentioned.
On my relatively small scale (dealing with 20 to 30 systems) it covers the
basics.
kdl
David Weigant
up on it since a show bought me Pro Wireless's IAS software. However, I have
seen updates to IAS reflected in RF guru entering the market. Both products
are much better than any of the free manufacturer programs at maintaining a
system and the demands of moving systems or tours. I hope that the
competition will continue to push both products to become better and better.
RF Guru started with doing the basics and keeps looking better with each
update.
Squeege
----------------------------------------------------------
David "Squeege" Weigant
Stagehand and Audio Engineer
Currently looking for a new tour
316.641.2803
Carlton Guc
>> I am not familiar with alternate programs, but did attend a workshop on RF
>> Guru, was impressed.
RF Guru is the next generation software based on our original program -- ShowBuilder: RF. All brand new from the ground up, RF Guru has many new features and more importantly, a code base to develop new features from.
The Maximizer in RF Guru is designed to handle numerous systems and find the best combination of frequencies based on your location. A test of 2400 Frequencies should complete in under 10 minutes on most systems. TV stations and known bad lists are also accounted for in these tests. While we do not have all the major systems in the database, these systems can be added by the end user. We are working with major wireless companies and plan to provide updates. More information on features can be viewed at our website.
We are working through some issues dealing with the raw data from the FCC and update RF as we resolve these issues. We are also looking at additional features and improvements on how the interface works based on feedback from our users.
Which brings me to the policy on upgrades/purchase.... All of our software includes one year of free upgrades for both major and minor releases. So for the introductory price of $60.00 (normally $179.00), you'll be able to give RF a go and get all the major updates for the next year.
If there are further questions on RF Guru, please drop us a private note off the list -- I just wanted to address the issues brought up on the list publically so everyone has the same info.
Hope that clears up some questions...
Regards,
Carlton
SR