Hey everyone!

[islandert...@gmail.com]

where'd ya all go? i know this is not the fastest moving forum on the
net, but of the last eight posts.. half of them were mine!

i am feeling a bit alone out here!!

Randy
S/V Ivy

[Bill Wiltsey]

Hey Randy.  I'm still here.  I think there is a lot of activity pre-season...then we all get down to sailing maybe?  I've been concentrating on single-handing.  Lazy jacks, jack lines, self steering windvane and trying to figure out a quick and simple non-windvane steering for near shore and in harbor stuff.  Any suggestions?

[islandert...@gmail.com]

Hi Bill!

well, I have a NorVane Self Steering Vane, and I think I will
eventually love it, but after using my RayMarine ST2000 Tiller Pilot I
am pretty sold on it. Steering Vanes I think are great for long
passages of predictable weather and few course changes, but up here at
the Oregon/California border, weather and winds are anything but
predictable, and it is so much easier to pop the Tiller Pilot on and
engage it, and when issues come up, it takes but a second to change
course or disengage and take over.

Although I haven't tried this bluewater, up in Puget Sound I had good
success just trimming the sails to a neutral helm, although with the
big main on a I-29, I was letting the main out a lot more then normal
(I guess a reef in the main would have served me better, but at the
time, I had no reefing system set up). Something that could be added
to that is tying the tiller off with bungy cords, which gives you a
way to make minor corrections without having to undo the setup. Before
I got my tiller pilot, I motored for sixteen hours down the Washington
coast with the bungy cord trick and it saved me much in the way of arm
stress, I could go half an hour or so, before nudging the tiller. The
setup I made was take a length of light line and tie a loop in the
end, put both hooks of the bungy cord through that, and put the loop
of bungy cord around the tiller, then take the line a few wraps around
my jib winches and back to the cleat, and get it fairly taut. You will
need to secure the bungy cords on the tiller so it doesn't slide up an
down. With this setup just simple pressure on one line or the other
will alter your course. It's a very simple design.. so much so, I was
embarrassed that I had not thought it up, but it works surprisingly
well.

Another bit of education for me was even while doing a lot of
motoring, it is usually advantageous to lift just a little bit of
sail. Not only does this act as a wind brake against rolling, but it
tends to keep the prop in deepest water and with the I-29's prop
surrounded by the rudder and keel, I am sure lessening the amount of
water pushing sideways across helps substantially. I have noticed an
increase in speed of 1/2kt to 1kt even when motoring directly into the
wind... it does flog the heck out of your sail though..

[Bill Wiltsey]

Thanks for that advice.  I think the bungee is the part I need.  I've been trying just light line with no 'spring' and it hasn't worked too well.

 

I have found just the opposite with my Norvane.  Once I have it set, wind and weather changes are no problem.  The boat steers perfect as if some ghost was at the helm when the wind shifts.  But this is So. Cal. light winds and weather compared to your area.  I have seen video of guys using these Norvanes in 50ft seas with major wind and they swear by them. 

 

Whatever works for each individual is what matters.

[islandert...@gmail.com]

Having not had a real good shakedown with the Norvane, I cannot speak
to it's ability, the one thing that does prevent me from using it more
however is; lowering the oar, attaching the vane, tying the tiller
lines (i have not as yet made a shackle system yet), and then
adjusting to course.. all without being tied in as i have not a
jackline that lets me back to the transom; when with the tiller pilot
I just snap it in and hit a button.

I do think I will come to love it, but for the moment the tiller pilot
is so much easier, and since I am doing a vast amount of motoring
there is no concern about the electricity loss.

by the way, this may seem obvious, but with the bungy cord you do both
sides.. I forgot to mention however.

[Bill Wiltsey]

I have 2 small cam cleats mounted on top of the tiller.  Light line running through small blocks port and starboard about even with the cam cleats, then running back to the Norvane.

I think if you arrange 2 days to just practice with the Norvane you'll get her figured out and be very pleased.  The first day I tried it I got it working pretty well.  After I slept a few nights, thought about it some, then went out a week later and messed some more, it all came together and I'm hooked.

 

In fact, I have a Tiller Pilot of some sort but have never taken the time to use it.  I plan on figuring that out some day as a back-up and maybe the best solution instead of the rope and bungee?  (not so obvious on the 2 bungees...I was going to ask)  Actually the Norvane says you can use just 1 line if prefered.  I use 2 and don't think just one side would work for my boat anyway.

 

I'll take some pictures of how I set up my Norvane and send a better description next time I'm down to the boat but it will be a few weeks.  If I forget...remind me.

 

Basically, if you know you're going to use it you can get it all set up before you leave port or anchor.  Maybe leave the lowering of the rudder until later but even that could be OK under power.  Just leave your lines loose and it should just stay 'in neutral so to speak.

----- Original Message -----

From: islandert...@gmail.com

To: The Islander 29 project

[islandert...@gmail.com]

o crimeny..

of course! thank you Bill *sigh* sometimes the brain just can't see
the smart solution! the cam cleats are genius!

by the way, if you haven't already, you should drill a tiny hole in
one of the wings of the wing bolt that attaches the vane, and run a
small lanyard. i can think of nothing that would be more frustrating
then losing that bolt out at sea! that to me is a real design
oversight.

yes i am rigged to use two lines, i can intellectually get how it
could work with one, but like you, i trust two more.

do you have a line running around the worm gear? and if so, where do
you have it terminated? about the only place i can think of is on the
aft side of the ridge that holds the main sheet track.

the reason i worry about the oar at all, is i do not like it banging
away back there 'in neutral', it might be, and probably is just fine
but it smacks of disorderly to me. i have tried to raise it underway,
and THAT is a JOB! even while using the vane to help steer it 'up'.

if you ever do break out the tiller pilot, NorVane states it is ok to
use it as the brains of the self steering vane. i eventually want to
set up Ivy to do this, as it will take far less power to use the
tiller pilot that way. i plan to mount a flange off the stern pulpit
to anchor the tiller pilot, and make a dummy vane that has a hole to
accept the plunger side.

again, before i get too hot on all this stern work, i NEED to get a
jackline in the cockpit!!! hehehe


randy

[Bill Wiltsey]

I know on that wing nut.  Always makes me nervous.  I never mess with that at sea.  I put it on/off in calm water and just turn the vane straight forward and leave it on with the rudder up and tied off when not in use during a voyage.  No big deal and no need to take that vane off most of the time.  (I still will safety lanyard that nut someday...probably right after I drop it in the drink the first time.)

 

On that do you have a line running around the worm gear? if you mean for adjusting course or just small vane adjustments underway I think I have a pretty slick method. (previous owner set it up and I didn't know for months what the heck it was)  It is very hard to describe and I will include pictures when I can.  Basically it is one (1) continuous loop light line running around that worm gear knob, forward through and back through a double-eye thing-a-ma-jig attached to the top (forward most starboard side) of the aft lazzerete.  The length of that rope loop is long enough so after going through the double-eye thing-a-ma-jig it continues forward to the cockpit area a bit.   You can sit, read a book in one hand, and steer the boat under any conditions with just your thumb and forefinger on the other hand...no bull.  I'm telling you, that Norvane is the absolute coolest toy I have had since my first Red Rider BB gun!

 

You can use anything for a jackline.  The main thing is a good harness and clip-in system, maybe you have the harness type PFD already.  I used a simple rope from bow to stern at first.  Kind of an ankle twister when you step on it going forward.  I now have webbing instead.  Lays nice and flat on deck.  I set-up 2 running port and starboard stem to stern but really one side is all you need on our boats. 

 

I'm land-locked in AZ for another 12 days, but pictures after that.  Remind me if you don't get them by months end.

----- Original Message -----

From: islandert...@gmail.com

To: The Islander 29 project

Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 7:42 AM

Subject: Re: Hey everyone!

[islandert...@gmail.com]

yes.. that is exactly what i was getting at, the worm gear thing i
have not set up at all. after i do, and i get my cockpit jackline
setup i will be less hesitant about the entire affair. i think i have
a good picture in my mind of what you are describing; the lines from
the wormgear come forward to a flying double turning block and
continue on to a block within reach of the cockpit, in one continuous
loop? that is precisely what i needed to know, thanks! being that i
have my tiller pilot to starboard, i think i will rig the vane
wormgear to port.. the I-29 has a good sized cockpit, but no sense in
cluttering it all up on one side!

i also have webbing jacklines, from the bow back on both sides to the
cockpit, i can even go down below if i am clipped into the starboard
side. i have a PDF that has jackline D rings, which i am religious
about using whenever i am not down below. the whole jackline situation
gets mucky at the bow, as i have my inflatable strapped to the
foredeck, but even still i can get to the forestay with a bit of
ballet.

the thing that has frustrated me most about my jacklines is the
locking shackles i have, i appreciate the safety issue, but man they
suck when your fingers are cold, and you need to move from one side to
the other in a hurry!

[Bill Wiltsey]

It's actually WAY simpler than that.  I attached the only picture I have of the area to give you a general visual...I'll take better ones in about 10 days.

Basically you take about 10 feet of line, make it into a five foot continuous loop, (no knots), feed it through the double eye thing and attach that to the top of your lazerette.  Just coil up the line when not in use.  When ready to use, just loop one end over the worm gear knob that adjusts the vane direction, and bring the other end forward and slightly taught into the cockpit area and your hand.  That's it.

 

Sounds like you just need one short section of jackline to get you all the way aft.  And maybe get the spring loaded carabiner type locking shackle.  I don't even use locking carabiners as I feel it would be very unlikely to accidently come off, and if I really, really need to unhook in a hurry I don't want to deal with a lock.  (The proper set up is a quick release you can release under load like when your boats going down and you don't want to go with it.)

----- Original Message -----

From: islandert...@gmail.com

To: The Islander 29 project

Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 7:54 AM

Subject: Re: Hey everyone!

[islandert...@gmail.com]

i think i got it now!

it appears the line is not taut then?

[Bill Wiltsey]

A little taut when engaged and being used while around the knob thingy which adjusts the vane.

 

When not in use it can be just lifted off the knob and coiled out of the way near the lazerette.

 

I will get you nice pictures next week.

----- Original Message -----

From: islandert...@gmail.com

To: The Islander 29 project

Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 8:07 AM

Subject: Re: Hey everyone!

[Devolved]

Daylight savings and work have prevented me from getting good pictures
of this self-steering set-up yet but I will. Doing a Catalina trip
turkey weekend and will take some while it's up and running.

[Bill Wiltsey]

The line can just lay until you want to steer.  Then gently pull it taut and dial.

I'll try and post these attached pictures on the site too.  (Note the Norvane steering pictures are from the calm crossing the day before...Cimba Surfer was the next day coming back.)

 

Every time I use this Norvane I am amazed how great it works.  Had her out this past weekend in very shifty and gusty winds with a big swell.  There is no way in hell a human could have steered the boat as well as the Norvane...especially consistently for the almost 4 hour crossing we did in those conditions.

 

 

 

Saturday coming back from The Isthmus, my friend near the helm but Cimba and the Norvane carving some awesome turns through the swells and wind with unbelievable perfection.

 

20 knot plus winds, 10 ft seas, gale warning, Norvane Self-Steering, I29...priceless.

 

What a blast!

 

PS -  We spotted Zero other boats coming or going during our return crossing.  Bunch of wimps in our So. Cal. harbors I guess.  (Or just smarter than me)

----- Original Message -----

From: islandert...@gmail.com

To: The Islander 29 project

Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 7:07 AM

Subject: Re: Hey everyone!

i think i got it now!

it appears the line is not taut then?

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