I understand the sentiment "...same time " but i dont understand why. All the underlying code is done. this should be a UI change ... it should not require a complete rewrite...
I have looked a little at the ios coding system...and while perhaps a challenge, all the hard work has already been done.
If this is true (and it may not be...who knows...maybe there are dragons unknown?) then it is all the more inexplicable this long monkish silence from the author.
It seems apparent that potion factory is organized around principles that are superior to the normal incentives of profit and satisfaction of completion. It may be we are in the presence of Zen.
~Michael
On Jul 29, 2012, at 9:02 AM, the-hit-list-users@googlegroups.com wrote:
> iPad version ! [1 Update]
> iPad version !
> Njordy <njo...@gmail.com> Jul 28 07:12PM -0700
> Do remember how long iPhone version were in development. Consider the same > time. :)
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On Jul 29, 2012, at 10:00 AM, Michael Beaton wrote:
> this should be a UI change ... it should not require a complete rewrite...
> I have looked a little at the ios coding system...and while perhaps a challenge, all the hard work has already been done.
You may want to look a tiny bit harder. :) From professional experience, 90% of the code in an iOS application drives the UI, compared to 10% for the business logic and model.
> On Jul 29, 2012, at 10:00 AM, Michael Beaton wrote:
>> this should be a UI change ... it should not require a complete rewrite...
>> I have looked a little at the ios coding system...and while perhaps a challenge, all the hard work has already been done.
> You may want to look a tiny bit harder. :) From professional experience, 90% of the code in an iOS application drives the UI, compared to 10% for the business logic and model.
This is true. Also, converting an app to iPad is way more than just making the screens bigger. Usually the whole flow of the application is redesigned. Not only is the iPad bigger but you hold and interact with it differently, and use it in different places and ways than the iPhone. It can sometimes be more work than the original, because you have to constantly check that you are actually doing what's best on iPad and not just copying the iPhone design because it's there.
My guess is that Andy has a day job and only does this in his spare time. He is far from the first programmer to overestimate how much he can get done that way and underestimate how much time it will take.
I will not try to excuse the lack of communication, but I at least partly understand it. If he announced what he was working on, his users (or at least, this group) would demand to know when it will be done. If he doesn't answer, people will be even more upset, and if he does, he's chained to an answer that may turn out to be totally unrealistic. Software is difficult to estimate under the best of circumstances, and ten times more so if you are doing it in your "spare" time.
As much complaining as we do here, Andy does seem to be making most of his customers happy. The Mac and iPhone apps both have a 4 star rating, which is not an easy feat.
Thanks for the heads up... I was wondering... I have designed and programmed plenty of systems in the past, but none in the ios environment. So I take the gentle rebuke... It is a different environment for sure. Still... is it that hard, to require a years worth of effort? (I know we don't know that the author is working full time or anything like it on this... In your experience if you were starting w the iphone app how many hours +/- would it take to come up w a functional iPad app?
On Sunday, July 29, 2012 10:01:07 AM UTC-7, x...@chanticleer.com wrote:
> On Jul 29, 2012, at 10:00 AM, Michael Beaton wrote:
> > this should be a UI change ... it should not require a complete > rewrite...
> > I have looked a little at the ios coding system...and while perhaps a > challenge, all the hard work has already been done.
> You may want to look a tiny bit harder. :) From professional > experience, 90% of the code in an iOS application drives the UI, compared > to 10% for the business logic and model.
I like Andy a lot. And I don't even know him! But I "know" him thru his designd and the quality of what he has produced. As for me, I adjust my workflow to utilize the THL applications I have, and don't try and make them do things that they cannot. So my anxiety is low.
I was pondering out loud. And your point about redesigning the entire workflow w ipad abilities in mind is v.good. Still, I wonder if there isnt room for a mid-step where the iphone version would be made functional with the basic UI of the ipad (thinking the huge fonts in 2x mode for example) simply implement a more normal screen size for the existing app release that then get on with the redesign as you say.
It seems to me that the iphone app flow works reasonably well, and while it could be improved doubtless, just having it sized properly would be a massive improvement.
but... is even this a huge amount of work? I don't know... As noted prior I am used to database applications that I designed and wrote for the desktop and enterprise where the bulk of the work was getting the data structures right and then implementing the code to do the essential work. I used MS VB and other tools to make the UI layer. That is why I was thinking the UI was more fungible. But...! obviously I am not a IOS techy...
On Sunday, July 29, 2012 10:14:08 AM UTC-7, janine wrote:
> On Jul 29, 2012, at 10:01 AM, Christophe wrote:
> > On Jul 29, 2012, at 10:00 AM, Michael Beaton wrote:
> >> this should be a UI change ... it should not require a complete > rewrite...
> >> I have looked a little at the ios coding system...and while perhaps a > challenge, all the hard work has already been done.
> > You may want to look a tiny bit harder. :) From professional > experience, 90% of the code in an iOS application drives the UI, compared > to 10% for the business logic and model.
> This is true. Also, converting an app to iPad is way more than just > making the screens bigger. Usually the whole flow of the application is > redesigned. Not only is the iPad bigger but you hold and interact with it > differently, and use it in different places and ways than the iPhone. It > can sometimes be more work than the original, because you have to > constantly check that you are actually doing what's best on iPad and not > just copying the iPhone design because it's there.
> My guess is that Andy has a day job and only does this in his spare time. > He is far from the first programmer to overestimate how much he can get > done that way and underestimate how much time it will take.
> I will not try to excuse the lack of communication, but I at least partly > understand it. If he announced what he was working on, his users (or at > least, this group) would demand to know when it will be done. If he > doesn't answer, people will be even more upset, and if he does, he's > chained to an answer that may turn out to be totally unrealistic. Software > is difficult to estimate under the best of circumstances, and ten times > more so if you are doing it in your "spare" time.
> As much complaining as we do here, Andy does seem to be making most of his > customers happy. The Mac and iPhone apps both have a 4 star rating, which > is not an easy feat.
Designing for the App Store is a very tricky business, and as much about psychology as anything else. It would be much faster and easier to just make a big iPhone app for the iPad. But some people would be angry (and give 1 star reviews) because they would think he did it the lazy way. And then people would get used to that version, and some would get violently angry (and leave 1 star reviews) when he released a new version that was very different. Many people fear change, and they tend to be the vocal ones who think that the world should revolve around them. It's amazing how nasty people can be in email. So I can't blame him for playing it safe and trying to do it right the first time (assuming that is what he is actually doing :).
> I like Andy a lot. And I don't even know him! But I "know" him thru his designd and the quality of what he has produced. > As for me, I adjust my workflow to utilize the THL applications I have, and don't try and make them do things that they cannot.
> So my anxiety is low.
> I was pondering out loud. And your point about redesigning the entire workflow w ipad abilities in mind is v.good. Still, I wonder if there isnt room for a mid-step where the iphone version would be made functional with the basic UI of the ipad (thinking the huge fonts in 2x mode for example)
> simply implement a more normal screen size for the existing app
> release that > then get on with the redesign as you say.
> It seems to me that the iphone app flow works reasonably well, and while it could be improved doubtless, just having it sized properly would be a massive improvement.
> but... is even this a huge amount of work? I don't know... As noted prior I am used to database applications that I designed and wrote for the desktop and enterprise where the bulk of the work was getting the data structures right and then implementing the code to do the essential work. I used MS VB and other tools to make the UI layer. That is why I was thinking the UI was more fungible. But...! obviously I am not a IOS techy...
> Anyway... and interesting discussion. Thanks.
> On Sunday, July 29, 2012 10:14:08 AM UTC-7, janine wrote:
> On Jul 29, 2012, at 10:01 AM, Christophe wrote:
> > On Jul 29, 2012, at 10:00 AM, Michael Beaton wrote:
> >> this should be a UI change ... it should not require a complete rewrite...
> >> I have looked a little at the ios coding system...and while perhaps a challenge, all the hard work has already been done.
> > You may want to look a tiny bit harder. :) From professional experience, 90% of the code in an iOS application drives the UI, compared to 10% for the business logic and model.
> This is true. Also, converting an app to iPad is way more than just making the screens bigger. Usually the whole flow of the application is redesigned. Not only is the iPad bigger but you hold and interact with it differently, and use it in different places and ways than the iPhone. It can sometimes be more work than the original, because you have to constantly check that you are actually doing what's best on iPad and not just copying the iPhone design because it's there.
> My guess is that Andy has a day job and only does this in his spare time. He is far from the first programmer to overestimate how much he can get done that way and underestimate how much time it will take.
> I will not try to excuse the lack of communication, but I at least partly understand it. If he announced what he was working on, his users (or at least, this group) would demand to know when it will be done. If he doesn't answer, people will be even more upset, and if he does, he's chained to an answer that may turn out to be totally unrealistic. Software is difficult to estimate under the best of circumstances, and ten times more so if you are doing it in your "spare" time.
> As much complaining as we do here, Andy does seem to be making most of his customers happy. The Mac and iPhone apps both have a 4 star rating, which is not an easy feat.
> My $0.02!
> janine
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On Sunday, July 29, 2012 at 1:23 PM, Janine Ohmer wrote:
> Designing for the App Store is a very tricky business, and as much about psychology as anything else. It would be much faster and easier to just make a big iPhone app for the iPad. But some people would be angry (and give 1 star reviews) because they would think he did it the lazy way. And then people would get used to that version, and some would get violently angry (and leave 1 star reviews) when he released a new version that was very different. Many people fear change, and they tend to be the vocal ones who think that the world should revolve around them. It's amazing how nasty people can be in email. So I can't blame him for playing it safe and trying to do it right the first time (assuming that is what he is actually doing :).
> janine
> On Jul 29, 2012, at 1:11 PM, Michaelb wrote:
> > Agree.
> > I like Andy a lot. And I don't even know him! But I "know" him thru his designd and the quality of what he has produced. > > As for me, I adjust my workflow to utilize the THL applications I have, and don't try and make them do things that they cannot.
> > So my anxiety is low.
> > I was pondering out loud. And your point about redesigning the entire workflow w ipad abilities in mind is v.good. Still, I wonder if there isnt room for a mid-step where the iphone version would be made functional with the basic UI of the ipad (thinking the huge fonts in 2x mode for example)
> > simply implement a more normal screen size for the existing app
> > release that > > then get on with the redesign as you say.
> > It seems to me that the iphone app flow works reasonably well, and while it could be improved doubtless, just having it sized properly would be a massive improvement.
> > but... is even this a huge amount of work? I don't know... As noted prior I am used to database applications that I designed and wrote for the desktop and enterprise where the bulk of the work was getting the data structures right and then implementing the code to do the essential work. I used MS VB and other tools to make the UI layer. That is why I was thinking the UI was more fungible. But...! obviously I am not a IOS techy...
> > Anyway... and interesting discussion. Thanks.
> > On Sunday, July 29, 2012 10:14:08 AM UTC-7, janine wrote:
> > > On Jul 29, 2012, at 10:01 AM, Christophe wrote:
> > > > On Jul 29, 2012, at 10:00 AM, Michael Beaton wrote:
> > > >> this should be a UI change ... it should not require a complete rewrite...
> > > >> I have looked a little at the ios coding system...and while perhaps a challenge, all the hard work has already been done.
> > > > You may want to look a tiny bit harder. :) From professional experience, 90% of the code in an iOS application drives the UI, compared to 10% for the business logic and model.
> > > This is true. Also, converting an app to iPad is way more than just making the screens bigger. Usually the whole flow of the application is redesigned. Not only is the iPad bigger but you hold and interact with it differently, and use it in different places and ways than the iPhone. It can sometimes be more work than the original, because you have to constantly check that you are actually doing what's best on iPad and not just copying the iPhone design because it's there.
> > > My guess is that Andy has a day job and only does this in his spare time. He is far from the first programmer to overestimate how much he can get done that way and underestimate how much time it will take.
> > > I will not try to excuse the lack of communication, but I at least partly understand it. If he announced what he was working on, his users (or at least, this group) would demand to know when it will be done. If he doesn't answer, people will be even more upset, and if he does, he's chained to an answer that may turn out to be totally unrealistic. Software is difficult to estimate under the best of circumstances, and ten times more so if you are doing it in your "spare" time.
> > > As much complaining as we do here, Andy does seem to be making most of his customers happy. The Mac and iPhone apps both have a 4 star rating, which is not an easy feat.
> > > My $0.02!
> > > janine
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