Blackberry usage in Govt ?

[Rehan Allahwala]

Does anyone here knows from the Telecom Companies, on How many MNA, MPA, Ministers, Senators of Pakistan have a Black berry and are on email of their's?

I think we should help them get on a Blackberry if they are not already, the cost of the Entire govt to get on a black berry would be a few hundred thousands a month, but the damage that we face because they are NOT on it, is far more than that.

I was attending a program in Singapore for a Minister of Industry of a State in India, and his PA told that he checks his email only when he is in India, and probabbly only the PA checks it.

I think if that can change, and our GOVT can start using the IT more, we can be a better, faster, more progressive nation.

[Ch. Faisal Hafeez]

As far i know most of MNA's are using Blackberry but via their PA's, only some of them are using it them self.

Also one MNA quoted me that All Cabinet member have BlackBerry from Moblink.

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Best Regards,
Faisal Hafeez
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Mob.# +92-(0)-321-954-4112

[Rehan Allahwala]

Well that is still not bad, What about the MPA's ?

Are their emails and contacts published ?

[Ch. Faisal Hafeez]

Only one MPA (punjab) i know is using BlackBerry.

Not sure about that publish.

[Uzair Ahmed]

Using Blackberry does not mean that they are using for emails. I know
that most of the people get Blackberry just for status quo. You can
check this out from Operators that how much hand set they sold and how
much people subscribed BES or BIS package. In my point of view, there
must be a significant difference in Blackberry user of Data vs Voice.

Uzair

--
Sent from my mobile device

[Rehan Allahwala]

It is our job as citizens to give them the brains, if we can not communicate with them, we can not share ideas with them.

They come from us, if you can not stand up in the elections , least we can do is educate them what we know, We ASSUME that they know everything, while most of them do not know much in their field, they are polticians,

If they can not even read emails, how do you expect them to run the country? 

Lets stop being critical  (Which we are expert in) and start to do something about it. Lets start by emailing 5 mna 1 time a week, ask them how they are and how we can be of any guidance to them.

I am already starting this on my own via sms, i would suggest you all do what u can on it also.

On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Amir Wain <aw...@i2cinc.com> wrote:

while you are at it buy them some brains and a bit of integrity too.

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[Shakeel Ahmad]

Most of provincial secretaries in punjab are using BB as mandated by
the civil secretariat so but they are using yahoo.com emails :)

--

[Saif Rahman]

Recently, as you all may know that Dubai, Saudi Arabia and India demanded access from Blackberry for security reasons and Blackberry yielded despite all their concerns of privacy and have agreed to setup local servers and provide them access. I wonder if any in our govt. has even considered having access to blackberry data. It is particularly important given the fact that we as a nation are in the middle of a dirty war, where intelligence and information is a key factor. 

Any one having ties to the right person in the govt or our security establishment kindly pass this suggestion for the sake of our own national interest.

Saif-ur-Rahman

[Haris Shamsi]

Back in 2007 when mobilink planned the launch of BB they had to go through the same cycle - and the service was launched so you know what i mean :) ...

though on a different note, do you think that by accessing "EMAIL" and "BBM" msges agencies can make sure that no communication related to any unlawful activity is happening (even through the Blackberry) .... what about facebook, twitters, gmail clients, cloud sharing, google docs sharing, and 100s of thousands of applications which uses other mediums to communicate than "email" and "bbm" - what about nokia and apples of the world and any smart phone which is out there having internet connectivity !!

On almost all smart phones you can build a layer of encryption for which at least we dont have any mechanism to decrypt ... (even the DPIs which are installed at our internet gateways :) )

/HS

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[Fouad Bajwa]

This discussion is becoming more interesting by the second ;o)

First thing first, we don't have that educated or aware lot in our
parliament that would know how to access their email messages or use
facebook to connect with their stakeholders or voters. Yes, they can
make calls, anyone is able to do that with out a literacy level
requirement, isn't owning a handset the first step to being able to
dial a number ;o)

As far is RIM is concerned in terms of its regulation, its just a
paranoia as there are a multitude of other methods used by people that
want to do unlawful activity. For example, Credit Card fraud being the
largest in the world is not done 100% online. Instead, the percentage
of offline fraud is far more greater than that using the Internet.

These are only regulatory controls that have seen to be going paranoid
and nuts all across the globe in an attempt to gain more control of
the network due to its social and economic dynamics and impact. Its
like someone or something slipping for under the noses of the
regulator that they are trying to overcome.

If you watch recent Hollywood flicks like the American etc, you will
see how the cell phone is disposed off as it is now very commonly
understood that there are facilities to trace and trackback on mobile
and wireless networks.

Using Blackberry's is one thing, it may be useful to help challenge
the status quo from elitism to going and being 24/7 accessible and
accountable to citizens using Mobile, Messaging, Email and the
Internet by our representatives in the parliament and assemblies?

Mobile/Cellular Driven Democracy anyone?

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Regards.
--------------------------
Fouad Bajwa
Internet's Governance: http://internetsgovernance.blogspot.com/
Follow my Tweets: http://twitter.com/fouadbajwa

[Saif Rahman]

As far as email is concerned, ISPs were required to keep records for at least recent 3 months. Somehow IM was never considered by PTA. More recently, newer modes of communication have become very popular such as facebook and twitter, as you rightly mentioned in your email. These services, on a separate but relevant note, do not still work on my BB. However, I think UAE ensures some level of access to all data/voice  that exchanges within or thru it's state boundary by having proxy servers. A good example was the tracking of a Palestinian leader's murderers earlier this year. They were traced via cameras and used satellite phones that hooked them up to an exchange in Europe which diverted the calls to Israel. They traced it and evidence forced even British govt. to take stern actions against Israel. Even if the communication is encrypted, you may still be able to track the presence, origin and destination of the message. I am sure a lot can be done to secure ourselves even when we know that 100% security may not be feasible.

Saif-ur-Rahman

On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 3:50 PM, Haris Shamsi <haris....@gmail.com> wrote:

[re...@supertec.com]

When they know how to use blackberry you can move them to another hardware

bb is just easier to use and a starting email phone in my opinion

[Majid Farid]

So now we have come down to BB to prove that our MNA and MPA's are
literate :)

I guess we can make HEC and SC job easy by ensuring our branded MNA'S
MPA's have BB and can communicate over it!...so they shouldn't
validate their degrees!.....come on guys that can't even communicate
without BB!

On the same note, Ijaz-ul-Haq, Maria Memon, Salman Taseer are few who
tweets I follow from time to time...

......

On Nov 3, 2:50 pm, Haris Shamsi <haris.sha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Back in 2007 when mobilink planned the launch of BB they had to go through
> the same cycle - and the service was launched so you know what i mean :) ...
>
> though on a different note, do you think that by accessing "EMAIL" and "BBM"
> msges agencies can make sure that no communication related to any unlawful
> activity is happening (even through the Blackberry) .... what about
> facebook, twitters, gmail clients, cloud sharing, google docs sharing, and
> 100s of thousands of applications which uses other mediums to communicate
> than "email" and "bbm" - what about nokia and apples of the world and any
> smart phone which is out there having internet connectivity !!
>
> On almost all smart phones you can build a layer of encryption for which at
> least we dont have any mechanism to decrypt ... (even the DPIs which are
> installed at our internet gateways :) )
>
> /HS
>

> *http://cloud.pk*
> *
> *You're either part of the solution or part of the problem - Eldridge
> Cleaver

[Uzair Ahmed]

@Rehan, it looks like that Rehan sb got the distribution from Emitech
or RIM for Pakistan. If you are really very positive about bringing MP
to use BB so (if I do not have a BB distribution) one should encourage
our respected Member Parliamentarian to use email (by using any media)
then talk about the hand sets. Secondly that's for sure that this era
is absolutely not fit for these experiments or suggestion, I am not
negative about the idea of using BB but one should be realistic
instead start the conversation from the middle..

--

[Rehan Allahwala]

So you do not do it bhai, This is what 180 millions have already been doing, you can remain in the same line, but please, STOP COMPLAINING then if u are not willing to do anything to fix it.

I am not asking anyone to break any law's, I am not asking anyone to educate as in bring them to school, All I am asking is to do what you would do for any of your General Managers if you were to hire them in your own company, equip them with best tools, and training, then let them do the best they can, and keep an eye on what they are doing.

On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 12:50 PM, ARFAEEN <arf...@marriala.net> wrote:

 

Wow...Rehan Sahib, your surely are a brave man. But First let us meditate that what are all these "IT GURUS" doing there in MOIT. If I am not mistaken, it is THEIR JOB to advise and Educate the Govt Officials.

 

I would not bid on taking somebody else's job in my own hands...especially, when the law of LAND clearly say that any SMS which they consider to be degrading the Elected Representatives will be taken as tempt of High Treason..:)

 

Regards

Arfaeen Iqbal

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[Rehan Allahwala]

Not every one in the world is after money,  and not every one who speaks here is doing it because they have a HIDDEN AGENDA.

I DO have an Hidden Agenda, which is that I want the country where I was born, and my entire family reside in, to become a better place then what it is now.

In My opinion the best way to teach people who are not used to email is to give them a black berry, 

It is a good tool to use, and that is why most of the corporate world use it.

If you can give them a better tool, go for it, I have no problem with any brand or service, I would personally prefer them to use a google android phone, but then again, i do not think they will use it, so that is why i brought up BB.

Now as usual, Most of the replies here are NON CONSTRUCTIVE and Totally MOCKING , STOP DOING THAT.

Rehan

[Ammar Faheem]

I believe a better step would be to provide them with emails first and then give them blackberries. I know several MNA's who are already using BBs, but those are the people who have been using emails.

The situation isn't all that bad when it comes to the educated MNAs and MPAs. It is the uneducated ones that we have to educate. My opinion is, it wont be much use giving a blackberry to someone who doesn't understand the basics of internet, email, english or even TYPING for that matter. 

Best Regards
Ammar Faheem
http://www.telecomistan.com

[Ashar Iqbal]

The problem we have is one of governance, its of having the wrong
mindset, corruption. The BB is just a tool for communication.

You do not fix bad governance with a communication tool.

Yes we would all like our MNAs to be clean, responsive to our needs
and the national interest but a BB is not going to help here.

Its a lot harder than that.

Ashar (using a BB)

On 11/4/10, Rehan Allahwala <re...@supertec.com> wrote:
> Thank you for your support, lets do what we CAN do to start with .
>
> If they are NOT using BB for email or email for that matter, Lets help them
> use it.
>
> I am sure some of us are related or have access to SOME MNA or MPA or anyone
> in the system, lets get them to use better technology, thats all what i am
> asking / suggesting here.
>
> Things will change, but not over night, EVEN if they use it for a status
> symbol it is NOT a bad thing, at least it is not a million dollar car.
>
> On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 12:22 PM, Amir Wain <aw...@i2cinc.com> wrote:
>
>> my note was more on a lighter note. Nonetheless I see your passion for
>> reform which I respect and want to support. I think while your suggestion
>> of
>> contesting elections has some merit, trying to inculcate integrity into
>> people who have none is probably not the shortest path to where you want
>> to
>> be. I am not being critical but advocating that we need to think of a
>> different strategy.
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>

[Haris Shamsi]

I think rehan's point is related to the fact that how technology can
help increasing the approachability - I follow at least 5-6
politicians and a lot of social workers aiming to become politicians
through twitter and believe me it helps to put my point across to them
....

I think it does help
/HS

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> Manage your subscription:
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Sent from my mobile device

*http://cloud.pk*

[AZEEM]

Official use of Blackberry cell phone services in government
departments has become the hot topic not just in Pakistan but in
Lebonon, India, UAE and many other countries now a days due to
security concerns and possible terrorist activities. Concerned
Ministry in Pakistan is in a way of consultation with all relevant
stakeholders including relevant authority and security agencies to
take necessary steps in this regards. But due to its complex nature,
the issue seems to be resolved hardly.

Some countries like U.A.E, Saudi Arabia, India and Lebanon have
recently raised concerns over encrypted (256 bit) email (BES) and
messaging services which are hosted in servers of Research in Motion
(RIM). The Governments in question want access to data sent and
received by Black Berry users which is stored beyond the research of
respective authorities on Servers of RIM.

Now according to some resources, on October 18th, BlackBerry made a
deal with UAE introducing launch of new BB Services like e-govt and
online banking, dropping the threat to suspend BlackBerry services.
Furthermore, a deal between Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and RIM is also
made to allow the government to monitor messages and allay official
fears the service could be used for criminal purposes. India had
threatened RIM with a blackout on BlackBerry communications in the
country, as the security authorities pushed for access to messages
sent between devices, citing fears that the level of encryption on the
handsets could aid terrorist activity.

Pakistan Telecommunication Authority (PTA) is reluctant to give any
clear policy instructions on use of BlackBerry mobile phone set by
government officers/officials as except encrypted BES services and
Blackberry Messenger, most of the data communication is handled in a
same manner similar to any other off-the-shelf cellular GSM handset
capable of internet capability. Govt. should closely watch as events
unfold related to Blackberry around the world.

Many article/reports has been published in this regard including “The
Economist” and it has been apprised that it is difficult for
Governments to intercept/monitor the communication through Black
Berry, as it uses high degree of encryption. According to the report,
attacks in Mumbai 2008 are believed to have been communicated through
Black berry.

The issue here is not to provoke Govt officials and Parliamentarians
or other socially exclusive groups to benefited from the use of ICT
through this communication tool i.e. BlackBerry. But the problem is
Should Govt. allow the use of BlackBerry and what ToR should be
finalized with RIM. Is it possible to get access of these remote
servers locally for the inspection of data at packet level, on demand?
Another issue here is that who should be allowed to monitor the
traffic, either it is ISI, IB, FIA or Police, for investigation.

This is a fact that in developing countries like Pakistan there is
severe need to promote the culture of using such services. However,
there are negative impacts of everything, which are worldwide and we
can not get rid of them completely but can minimize the risks through
some strategies and policies. We should think over it, either blocking
and quitting the use of technology is the only solution or to prepare
our selves, while remaining in it.

Regards,
Azeem Sajjad

[Saif-ur-Rahman Choudhri]

Dear Azeem Sajjad,

I agree with you and raised the same issue earlier on this topic as well.
Now moving from the security to service issues, almost all
services/applications on BB are blocked except IM, browsing and mail. Even
with mail, Gmail plug-in does not work. Applications such as weather,
currency converter etc are also not working besides facebook and twitter on
BB. The same services would work on any other phone with simple GPRS
connectivity so why pay that extra for BB services. Push mail advantage of
few minutes can be further reduced by using IMAP protocol anyway as long as
the mail server supports it, which most do anyway. However, the point is we
cannot go on with this status quo. I understand that there was this final
high court order to block links within facebook (cartoon controversy) but
not the entire facebook. Is BB punishing us for taking that stand? Or
perhaps, there are just very few users (only 60,000 if I am not mistaken)
of blackberry in Pakistan and not making noise either.

Moving on to g3 g4 etc. Why are we still stuck with GPRS on mobile phones?
What is the roadmap to better and unrestricted connectivity with the
exception of pornography, of course.{ Can someone for the sake of our kids
and next generation get rid of pornography as UAE has done so effectively?}

Look iPhone has radically changed the mobile market to application based
market and its success is followed by all. What good is data without apps?
Both data and apps require speed. GPRS won't cut it. Apps are now very much
needed as you do require information access on the go. There was a time when
Pakistan lead in the telecom field, at least in the developing nations, but
I think we are seriously lagging now. Many countries like UAE, Indonesia,
Malaysia have G3 connectivity, essential for apps and for speedier Internet
and data access. I would like to know what our regulators and industry
professionals are thinking and planning on this front for better data
connectivity, BB blockage of pretty much all apps and once again BB security
issues.

Saif-ur-Rahman

-----Original Message-----
From: telecom-gr...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:telecom-gr...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of AZEEM
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 2:08 PM
To: Telecom Grid Pakistan
Subject: Re: Blackberry usage in Govt ?

Regards,
Azeem Sajjad

--