While there is a strong group of people who have always rejected WiMAX as a substitute of other Mediums of Internet Connection in Pakistan, 3-4 Major Players in Pakistan Kept investing in to WiMAX arena till early 2008. Rather couple of them are still investing like Augere and Wi-Tribe. Whether the operators in general got the success or not there is no denial to the fact the WiMAX networks roll outs are still happening not only in emerging economies but also in stable (stable Markets).
If i remember correctly, the arguments from ANTI WiMAX School of thought started from a point that some how the frequency interference is happening with some Satellite frequency band or some thing, then the issue of end to end business model raised very aggressively in regards of service delivery etc ( i know the pioneer deployment of WiMAX network initially had some issues in Pakistan). After that suddenly 3 more networks emerged and really struggled (and still are struggling) to get their size of Pie from existing low penetrated broadband market. Yes, they have faced challenges and might still be facing them for another couple of years or so till the time economic situation gets better however the Anti WIMAX group never got a real success in proving their claims that WiMAX is a Failure. Although many times at open forums as well as in closed meetings the operators investing in WiMAX technology were being called "foolish"
I was going through the recent update that Clearwire raises an additional $1.5B to continue building its nationwide WiMAX network
Sprint, Comcast, Time Warner Cable, and Bright House Networks (to name a few) continue to bet big on Clearwire’s WiMAX nationwide wireless network. The foursome have just pumped an additional $1.494 billion into Clearwire’s coffer, with another $50 million coming from Intel and $20 million from Eagle River Holdings. CHA-CHING.
More specifically, Sprint, which owns 51 percent of Clearwire, invested $1.176 billion, Comcast Corp. put in $196 million, Time Warner Cable Inc. dropped another $103 million, and Bright House Networks contributed a cool $19 million.
According to Christopher King, an analyst at Stifel Nicolaus, the new influx increased Clearwire’s cash stockpile to a whopping $1.8 billion and will help to mitigate the “funding gap” for its nationwide WiMAX network build-out to $3 billion. The new funds will purportedly allow Clearwire to hold off on raising more dough until at least the end of 2011.
So i am really trying to understand that whats the cause of a failure (as a business ) as they call it. I am not convinced at all that it is technology, even i don't blame the timings however i personally think that the economic conditions and security situation has played a major role in limiting the growth of WiMAX networks. And this is not only related to WiMAX but i havent seen any major growth in other mediums like DSL or FTTH networks in Pakistan . It would be unjust to mention that CDMA 2 K has played a vital role in increasing the size of the pie for Broadband Wireless Networks.
It should be of interest to the readers that the approximate subscriber base of the WiMAX players in Pakistan is around 150 K at present where Wateen Claims to be at 100,000, Mobilink at 25,000 (in Karachi Only) , Wi-Tribe at 20,000 and Augere reaching the five figures.
Haris
My knowledge base suggests that the frequency is such that the signal
penetration through walls is poor. Hence if your CPE is near a window, your
experience is good, otherwise it is poor. Unless of course you get a roof
mount antenna which is a few extra bucks.
In a country like Pakistan where landline quality is still bad even for many
subscribers in major cities, WiMax does come as a blessing. In more
developed countries, some businesses do use wireless for backup, with
wireline (optical etc) for primary connectivity.
My two cents.
On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Haris Shamsi <haris.sha...@gmail.com>wrote:
> While there is a strong group of people who have always rejected WiMAX as a
> substitute of other Mediums of Internet Connection in Pakistan, 3-4 Major
> Players in Pakistan Kept investing in to WiMAX arena till early 2008. Rather
> couple of them are still investing like Augere and Wi-Tribe. Whether the
> operators in general got the success or not there is no denial to the fact
> the WiMAX networks roll outs are still happening not only in emerging
> economies but also in stable (stable Markets).
> If i remember correctly, the arguments from ANTI WiMAX School of thought
> started from a point that some how the frequency interference is happening
> with some Satellite frequency band or some thing, then the issue of end to
> end business model raised very aggressively in regards of service delivery
> etc ( i know the pioneer deployment of WiMAX network initially had some
> issues in Pakistan). After that suddenly 3 more networks emerged and really
> struggled (and still are struggling) to get their size of Pie from existing
> low penetrated broadband market. Yes, they have faced challenges and might
> still be facing them for another couple of years or so till the time
> economic situation gets better however the Anti WIMAX group never got a real
> success in proving their claims that WiMAX is a Failure. Although many times
> at open forums as well as in closed meetings the operators investing in
> WiMAX technology were being called "foolish"
> I was going through the recent update that Clearwire raises an additional
> $1.5B to continue building its nationwide WiMAX network
> Sprint, Comcast, Time Warner Cable, and Bright House Networks (to name a
> few) continue to bet big on Clearwire’s WiMAX nationwide wireless network.
> The foursome have just pumped an additional $1.494 billion into Clearwire’s
> coffer, with another $50 million coming from Intel and $20 million from
> Eagle River Holdings. CHA-CHING.
> More specifically, Sprint, which owns 51 percent of Clearwire, invested
> $1.176 billion, Comcast Corp. put in $196 million, Time Warner Cable Inc.
> dropped another $103 million, and Bright House Networks contributed a cool
> $19 million.
> According to Christopher King, an analyst at Stifel Nicolaus, the new
> influx increased Clearwire’s cash stockpile to a whopping $1.8 billion and
> will help to mitigate the “funding gap” for its nationwide WiMAX network
> build-out to $3 billion. The new funds will purportedly allow Clearwire to
> hold off on raising more dough until at least the end of 2011.
> So i am really trying to understand that whats the cause of a failure (as a
> business ) as they call it. I am not convinced at all that it is technology,
> even i don't blame the timings however i personally think that the economic
> conditions and security situation has played a major role in limiting the
> growth of WiMAX networks. And this is not only related to WiMAX but i havent
> seen any major growth in other mediums like DSL or FTTH networks in Pakistan
> . It would be unjust to mention that CDMA 2 K has played a vital role in
> increasing the size of the pie for Broadband Wireless Networks.
> It should be of interest to the readers that the approximate subscriber
> base of the WiMAX players in Pakistan is around 150 K at present where
> Wateen Claims to be at 100,000, Mobilink at 25,000 (in Karachi Only) ,
> Wi-Tribe at 20,000 and Augere reaching the five figures.
> Comments ?
> /Haris Shamsi
-- Muhammad Saqib Ilyas
PhD Student, Computer Science and Engineering
Lahore University of Management Sciences
Correct Saqib, WiMax is not going to work in developed countries because the
alternatives infrastructures are well established. Wired being the dominant
form and wireless (3G, WiFi) being the 2nd best option available. It makes
sense for mobile providers too, they already have infrastructure in place to
add 3G to their offerings. Why invest in a technology that will require
substantial capital to deploy and the return is purely not going to come
easy since breaking into rival market is nearly impossible.
For Pakistan things are much simpler, Wired infrastructure is shit, and
wireless is non-existant, so it is the perfect place to deploy such
technology. However doing half hearted attempts is exactly the sort of thing
that providers want to and should avoid. Otherwise over time the wired/3G
will catch up and WiMax will have no where to go. The technology itself is
not bad at all, signal penetration problems exist with 3G too, the providers
have got round that by increasing the density of Masts and Access points in
congested areas. Last time when I visited Pakistan, Wateen were touting
WiMax availability, and all they had were one mast per city. I don't know
how have things improved now, but IMO if a WiMax provider wants to gain
upper hand in the market then they need to get the infrastructure problems
solved and get on top of things. Otherwise it will be another lost cause.
On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Saqib Ilyas <msa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Haris
> My knowledge base suggests that the frequency is such that the signal
> penetration through walls is poor. Hence if your CPE is near a window, your
> experience is good, otherwise it is poor. Unless of course you get a roof
> mount antenna which is a few extra bucks.
> In a country like Pakistan where landline quality is still bad even for
> many subscribers in major cities, WiMax does come as a blessing. In more
> developed countries, some businesses do use wireless for backup, with
> wireline (optical etc) for primary connectivity.
> My two cents.
> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Haris Shamsi <haris.sha...@gmail.com>wrote:
>> While there is a strong group of people who have always rejected WiMAX as
>> a substitute of other Mediums of Internet Connection in Pakistan, 3-4 Major
>> Players in Pakistan Kept investing in to WiMAX arena till early 2008. Rather
>> couple of them are still investing like Augere and Wi-Tribe. Whether the
>> operators in general got the success or not there is no denial to the fact
>> the WiMAX networks roll outs are still happening not only in emerging
>> economies but also in stable (stable Markets).
>> If i remember correctly, the arguments from ANTI WiMAX School of thought
>> started from a point that some how the frequency interference is happening
>> with some Satellite frequency band or some thing, then the issue of end to
>> end business model raised very aggressively in regards of service delivery
>> etc ( i know the pioneer deployment of WiMAX network initially had some
>> issues in Pakistan). After that suddenly 3 more networks emerged and really
>> struggled (and still are struggling) to get their size of Pie from existing
>> low penetrated broadband market. Yes, they have faced challenges and might
>> still be facing them for another couple of years or so till the time
>> economic situation gets better however the Anti WIMAX group never got a real
>> success in proving their claims that WiMAX is a Failure. Although many times
>> at open forums as well as in closed meetings the operators investing in
>> WiMAX technology were being called "foolish"
>> I was going through the recent update that Clearwire raises an additional
>> $1.5B to continue building its nationwide WiMAX network
>> Sprint, Comcast, Time Warner Cable, and Bright House Networks (to name a
>> few) continue to bet big on Clearwire’s WiMAX nationwide wireless network.
>> The foursome have just pumped an additional $1.494 billion into Clearwire’s
>> coffer, with another $50 million coming from Intel and $20 million from
>> Eagle River Holdings. CHA-CHING.
>> More specifically, Sprint, which owns 51 percent of Clearwire, invested
>> $1.176 billion, Comcast Corp. put in $196 million, Time Warner Cable Inc.
>> dropped another $103 million, and Bright House Networks contributed a cool
>> $19 million.
>> According to Christopher King, an analyst at Stifel Nicolaus, the new
>> influx increased Clearwire’s cash stockpile to a whopping $1.8 billion and
>> will help to mitigate the “funding gap” for its nationwide WiMAX network
>> build-out to $3 billion. The new funds will purportedly allow Clearwire to
>> hold off on raising more dough until at least the end of 2011.
>> So i am really trying to understand that whats the cause of a failure (as
>> a business ) as they call it. I am not convinced at all that it is
>> technology, even i don't blame the timings however i personally think that
>> the economic conditions and security situation has played a major role in
>> limiting the growth of WiMAX networks. And this is not only related to WiMAX
>> but i havent seen any major growth in other mediums like DSL or FTTH
>> networks in Pakistan . It would be unjust to mention that CDMA 2 K has
>> played a vital role in increasing the size of the pie for Broadband Wireless
>> Networks.
>> It should be of interest to the readers that the approximate subscriber
>> base of the WiMAX players in Pakistan is around 150 K at present where
>> Wateen Claims to be at 100,000, Mobilink at 25,000 (in Karachi Only) ,
>> Wi-Tribe at 20,000 and Augere reaching the five figures.
>> Comments ?
>> /Haris Shamsi
>> --
>> Muhammad Saqib Ilyas
>> PhD Student, Computer Science and Engineering
>> Lahore University of Management Sciences
> Correct Saqib, WiMax is not going to work in developed countries because the
> alternatives infrastructures are well established. Wired being the dominant
> form and wireless (3G, WiFi) being the 2nd best option available. It makes
> sense for mobile providers too, they already have infrastructure in place to
> add 3G to their offerings. Why invest in a technology that will require
> substantial capital to deploy and the return is purely not going to come
> easy since breaking into rival market is nearly impossible.
> For Pakistan things are much simpler, Wired infrastructure is shit, and
> wireless is non-existant, so it is the perfect place to deploy such
> technology. However doing half hearted attempts is exactly the sort of thing
> that providers want to and should avoid. Otherwise over time the wired/3G
> will catch up and WiMax will have no where to go. The technology itself is
> not bad at all, signal penetration problems exist with 3G too, the providers
> have got round that by increasing the density of Masts and Access points in
> congested areas. Last time when I visited Pakistan, Wateen were touting
> WiMax availability, and all they had were one mast per city. I don't know
> how have things improved now, but IMO if a WiMax provider wants to gain
> upper hand in the market then they need to get the infrastructure problems
> solved and get on top of things. Otherwise it will be another lost cause.
> /Rizwan
> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Saqib Ilyas <msa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Haris
>> My knowledge base suggests that the frequency is such that the signal
>> penetration through walls is poor. Hence if your CPE is near a window,
>> your
>> experience is good, otherwise it is poor. Unless of course you get a roof
>> mount antenna which is a few extra bucks.
>> In a country like Pakistan where landline quality is still bad even for
>> many subscribers in major cities, WiMax does come as a blessing. In more
>> developed countries, some businesses do use wireless for backup, with
>> wireline (optical etc) for primary connectivity.
>> My two cents.
>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Haris Shamsi
>> <haris.sha...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>> While there is a strong group of people who have always rejected WiMAX as
>>> a substitute of other Mediums of Internet Connection in Pakistan, 3-4
>>> Major
>>> Players in Pakistan Kept investing in to WiMAX arena till early 2008.
>>> Rather
>>> couple of them are still investing like Augere and Wi-Tribe. Whether the
>>> operators in general got the success or not there is no denial to the
>>> fact
>>> the WiMAX networks roll outs are still happening not only in emerging
>>> economies but also in stable (stable Markets).
>>> If i remember correctly, the arguments from ANTI WiMAX School of thought
>>> started from a point that some how the frequency interference is
>>> happening
>>> with some Satellite frequency band or some thing, then the issue of end
>>> to
>>> end business model raised very aggressively in regards of service
>>> delivery
>>> etc ( i know the pioneer deployment of WiMAX network initially had some
>>> issues in Pakistan). After that suddenly 3 more networks emerged and
>>> really
>>> struggled (and still are struggling) to get their size of Pie from
>>> existing
>>> low penetrated broadband market. Yes, they have faced challenges and
>>> might
>>> still be facing them for another couple of years or so till the time
>>> economic situation gets better however the Anti WIMAX group never got a
>>> real
>>> success in proving their claims that WiMAX is a Failure. Although many
>>> times
>>> at open forums as well as in closed meetings the operators investing in
>>> WiMAX technology were being called "foolish"
>>> I was going through the recent update that Clearwire raises an additional
>>> $1.5B to continue building its nationwide WiMAX network
>>> Sprint, Comcast, Time Warner Cable, and Bright House Networks (to name a
>>> few) continue to bet big on Clearwire’s WiMAX nationwide wireless
>>> network.
>>> The foursome have just pumped an additional $1.494 billion into
>>> Clearwire’s
>>> coffer, with another $50 million coming from Intel and $20 million from
>>> Eagle River Holdings. CHA-CHING.
>>> More specifically, Sprint, which owns 51 percent of Clearwire, invested
>>> $1.176 billion, Comcast Corp. put in $196 million, Time Warner Cable Inc.
>>> dropped another $103 million, and Bright House Networks contributed a
>>> cool
>>> $19 million.
>>> According to Christopher King, an analyst at Stifel Nicolaus, the new
>>> influx increased Clearwire’s cash stockpile to a whopping $1.8 billion
>>> and
>>> will help to mitigate the “funding gap” for its nationwide WiMAX network
>>> build-out to $3 billion. The new funds will purportedly allow Clearwire
>>> to
>>> hold off on raising more dough until at least the end of 2011.
>>> So i am really trying to understand that whats the cause of a failure (as
>>> a business ) as they call it. I am not convinced at all that it is
>>> technology, even i don't blame the timings however i personally think
>>> that
>>> the economic conditions and security situation has played a major role in
>>> limiting the growth of WiMAX networks. And this is not only related to
>>> WiMAX
>>> but i havent seen any major growth in other mediums like DSL or FTTH
>>> networks in Pakistan . It would be unjust to mention that CDMA 2 K has
>>> played a vital role in increasing the size of the pie for Broadband
>>> Wireless
>>> Networks.
>>> It should be of interest to the readers that the approximate subscriber
>>> base of the WiMAX players in Pakistan is around 150 K at present where
>>> Wateen Claims to be at 100,000, Mobilink at 25,000 (in Karachi Only) ,
>>> Wi-Tribe at 20,000 and Augere reaching the five figures.
>>> Comments ?
>>> /Haris Shamsi
>>> --
>>> Muhammad Saqib Ilyas
>>> PhD Student, Computer Science and Engineering
>>> Lahore University of Management Sciences
IIRC Panasonic spent $7 million on a study as to why people in the
Middle East, Pakistan, India and Bangladesh don't use voice mail /
answering machines. I believe it was something to do with the culture
rather than economics, etc.
I personally believe our Internet Marketing (connectivity and usage
pattern wise) inherently very different from the West hence what is
successful over there - may not be here. Wimax's success or failure
would be written down in history and only time will tell.
On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 7:52 PM, Rizwan Sarwar <rsar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Correct Saqib, WiMax is not going to work in developed countries because the
> alternatives infrastructures are well established. Wired being the dominant
> form and wireless (3G, WiFi) being the 2nd best option available. It makes
> sense for mobile providers too, they already have infrastructure in place to
> add 3G to their offerings. Why invest in a technology that will require
> substantial capital to deploy and the return is purely not going to come
> easy since breaking into rival market is nearly impossible.
> For Pakistan things are much simpler, Wired infrastructure is shit, and
> wireless is non-existant, so it is the perfect place to deploy such
> technology. However doing half hearted attempts is exactly the sort of thing
> that providers want to and should avoid. Otherwise over time the wired/3G
> will catch up and WiMax will have no where to go. The technology itself is
> not bad at all, signal penetration problems exist with 3G too, the providers
> have got round that by increasing the density of Masts and Access points in
> congested areas. Last time when I visited Pakistan, Wateen were touting
> WiMax availability, and all they had were one mast per city. I don't know
> how have things improved now, but IMO if a WiMax provider wants to gain
> upper hand in the market then they need to get the infrastructure problems
> solved and get on top of things. Otherwise it will be another lost cause.
> /Rizwan
> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Saqib Ilyas <msa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Haris
>> My knowledge base suggests that the frequency is such that the signal
>> penetration through walls is poor. Hence if your CPE is near a window, your
>> experience is good, otherwise it is poor. Unless of course you get a roof
>> mount antenna which is a few extra bucks.
>> In a country like Pakistan where landline quality is still bad even for
>> many subscribers in major cities, WiMax does come as a blessing. In more
>> developed countries, some businesses do use wireless for backup, with
>> wireline (optical etc) for primary connectivity.
>> My two cents.
>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Haris Shamsi <haris.sha...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> While there is a strong group of people who have always rejected WiMAX as
>>> a substitute of other Mediums of Internet Connection in Pakistan, 3-4 Major
>>> Players in Pakistan Kept investing in to WiMAX arena till early 2008. Rather
>>> couple of them are still investing like Augere and Wi-Tribe. Whether the
>>> operators in general got the success or not there is no denial to the fact
>>> the WiMAX networks roll outs are still happening not only in emerging
>>> economies but also in stable (stable Markets).
>>> If i remember correctly, the arguments from ANTI WiMAX School of thought
>>> started from a point that some how the frequency interference is happening
>>> with some Satellite frequency band or some thing, then the issue of end to
>>> end business model raised very aggressively in regards of service delivery
>>> etc ( i know the pioneer deployment of WiMAX network initially had some
>>> issues in Pakistan). After that suddenly 3 more networks emerged and really
>>> struggled (and still are struggling) to get their size of Pie from existing
>>> low penetrated broadband market. Yes, they have faced challenges and might
>>> still be facing them for another couple of years or so till the time
>>> economic situation gets better however the Anti WIMAX group never got a real
>>> success in proving their claims that WiMAX is a Failure. Although many times
>>> at open forums as well as in closed meetings the operators investing in
>>> WiMAX technology were being called "foolish"
>>> I was going through the recent update that Clearwire raises an additional
>>> $1.5B to continue building its nationwide WiMAX network
>>> Sprint, Comcast, Time Warner Cable, and Bright House Networks (to name a
>>> few) continue to bet big on Clearwire’s WiMAX nationwide wireless network.
>>> The foursome have just pumped an additional $1.494 billion into Clearwire’s
>>> coffer, with another $50 million coming from Intel and $20 million from
>>> Eagle River Holdings. CHA-CHING.
>>> More specifically, Sprint, which owns 51 percent of Clearwire, invested
>>> $1.176 billion, Comcast Corp. put in $196 million, Time Warner Cable Inc.
>>> dropped another $103 million, and Bright House Networks contributed a cool
>>> $19 million.
>>> According to Christopher King, an analyst at Stifel Nicolaus, the new
>>> influx increased Clearwire’s cash stockpile to a whopping $1.8 billion and
>>> will help to mitigate the “funding gap” for its nationwide WiMAX network
>>> build-out to $3 billion. The new funds will purportedly allow Clearwire to
>>> hold off on raising more dough until at least the end of 2011.
>>> So i am really trying to understand that whats the cause of a failure (as
>>> a business ) as they call it. I am not convinced at all that it is
>>> technology, even i don't blame the timings however i personally think that
>>> the economic conditions and security situation has played a major role in
>>> limiting the growth of WiMAX networks. And this is not only related to WiMAX
>>> but i havent seen any major growth in other mediums like DSL or FTTH
>>> networks in Pakistan . It would be unjust to mention that CDMA 2 K has
>>> played a vital role in increasing the size of the pie for Broadband Wireless
>>> Networks.
>>> It should be of interest to the readers that the approximate subscriber
>>> base of the WiMAX players in Pakistan is around 150 K at present where
>>> Wateen Claims to be at 100,000, Mobilink at 25,000 (in Karachi Only) ,
>>> Wi-Tribe at 20,000 and Augere reaching the five figures.
>>> Comments ?
>>> /Haris Shamsi
>>> --
>>> Muhammad Saqib Ilyas
>>> PhD Student, Computer Science and Engineering
>>> Lahore University of Management Sciences
> So Rizwan, why do you think clear wire raised so much money in a
> "developed" country to further rollout wimax ?
> On 11/12/09, Rizwan Sarwar <rsar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Correct Saqib, WiMax is not going to work in developed countries because
> the
> > alternatives infrastructures are well established. Wired being the
> dominant
> > form and wireless (3G, WiFi) being the 2nd best option available. It
> makes
> > sense for mobile providers too, they already have infrastructure in place
> to
> > add 3G to their offerings. Why invest in a technology that will require
> > substantial capital to deploy and the return is purely not going to come
> > easy since breaking into rival market is nearly impossible.
> > For Pakistan things are much simpler, Wired infrastructure is shit, and
> > wireless is non-existant, so it is the perfect place to deploy such
> > technology. However doing half hearted attempts is exactly the sort of
> thing
> > that providers want to and should avoid. Otherwise over time the wired/3G
> > will catch up and WiMax will have no where to go. The technology itself
> is
> > not bad at all, signal penetration problems exist with 3G too, the
> providers
> > have got round that by increasing the density of Masts and Access points
> in
> > congested areas. Last time when I visited Pakistan, Wateen were touting
> > WiMax availability, and all they had were one mast per city. I don't know
> > how have things improved now, but IMO if a WiMax provider wants to gain
> > upper hand in the market then they need to get the infrastructure
> problems
> > solved and get on top of things. Otherwise it will be another lost cause.
> > /Rizwan
> > On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Saqib Ilyas <msa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Haris
> >> My knowledge base suggests that the frequency is such that the signal
> >> penetration through walls is poor. Hence if your CPE is near a window,
> >> your
> >> experience is good, otherwise it is poor. Unless of course you get a
> roof
> >> mount antenna which is a few extra bucks.
> >> In a country like Pakistan where landline quality is still bad even for
> >> many subscribers in major cities, WiMax does come as a blessing. In more
> >> developed countries, some businesses do use wireless for backup, with
> >> wireline (optical etc) for primary connectivity.
> >> My two cents.
> >> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Haris Shamsi
> >> <haris.sha...@gmail.com>wrote:
> >>> While there is a strong group of people who have always rejected WiMAX
> as
> >>> a substitute of other Mediums of Internet Connection in Pakistan, 3-4
> >>> Major
> >>> Players in Pakistan Kept investing in to WiMAX arena till early 2008.
> >>> Rather
> >>> couple of them are still investing like Augere and Wi-Tribe. Whether
> the
> >>> operators in general got the success or not there is no denial to the
> >>> fact
> >>> the WiMAX networks roll outs are still happening not only in emerging
> >>> economies but also in stable (stable Markets).
> >>> If i remember correctly, the arguments from ANTI WiMAX School of
> thought
> >>> started from a point that some how the frequency interference is
> >>> happening
> >>> with some Satellite frequency band or some thing, then the issue of end
> >>> to
> >>> end business model raised very aggressively in regards of service
> >>> delivery
> >>> etc ( i know the pioneer deployment of WiMAX network initially had some
> >>> issues in Pakistan). After that suddenly 3 more networks emerged and
> >>> really
> >>> struggled (and still are struggling) to get their size of Pie from
> >>> existing
> >>> low penetrated broadband market. Yes, they have faced challenges and
> >>> might
> >>> still be facing them for another couple of years or so till the time
> >>> economic situation gets better however the Anti WIMAX group never got a
> >>> real
> >>> success in proving their claims that WiMAX is a Failure. Although many
> >>> times
> >>> at open forums as well as in closed meetings the operators investing in
> >>> WiMAX technology were being called "foolish"
> >>> I was going through the recent update that Clearwire raises an
> additional
> >>> $1.5B to continue building its nationwide WiMAX network
> >>> Sprint, Comcast, Time Warner Cable, and Bright House Networks (to name
> a
> >>> few) continue to bet big on Clearwire’s WiMAX nationwide wireless
> >>> network.
> >>> The foursome have just pumped an additional $1.494 billion into
> >>> Clearwire’s
> >>> coffer, with another $50 million coming from Intel and $20 million from
> >>> Eagle River Holdings. CHA-CHING.
> >>> More specifically, Sprint, which owns 51 percent of Clearwire, invested
> >>> $1.176 billion, Comcast Corp. put in $196 million, Time Warner Cable
> Inc.
> >>> dropped another $103 million, and Bright House Networks contributed a
> >>> cool
> >>> $19 million.
> >>> According to Christopher King, an analyst at Stifel Nicolaus, the new
> >>> influx increased Clearwire’s cash stockpile to a whopping $1.8 billion
> >>> and
> >>> will help to mitigate the “funding gap” for its nationwide WiMAX
> network
> >>> build-out to $3 billion. The new funds will purportedly allow Clearwire
> >>> to
> >>> hold off on raising more dough until at least the end of 2011.
> >>> So i am really trying to understand that whats the cause of a failure
> (as
> >>> a business ) as they call it. I am not convinced at all that it is
> >>> technology, even i don't blame the timings however i personally think
> >>> that
> >>> the economic conditions and security situation has played a major role
> in
> >>> limiting the growth of WiMAX networks. And this is not only related to
> >>> WiMAX
> >>> but i havent seen any major growth in other mediums like DSL or FTTH
> >>> networks in Pakistan . It would be unjust to mention that CDMA 2 K has
> >>> played a vital role in increasing the size of the pie for Broadband
> >>> Wireless
> >>> Networks.
> >>> It should be of interest to the readers that the approximate subscriber
> >>> base of the WiMAX players in Pakistan is around 150 K at present where
> >>> Wateen Claims to be at 100,000, Mobilink at 25,000 (in Karachi Only) ,
> >>> Wi-Tribe at 20,000 and Augere reaching the five figures.
> >>> Comments ?
> >>> /Haris Shamsi
> >>> --
> >>> Muhammad Saqib Ilyas
> >>> PhD Student, Computer Science and Engineering
> >>> Lahore University of Management Sciences
Faisal I believe in this era, cultural change could happen pretty
fast. There could be examples where this economy showed stuobrness
against a cultural change but I can put across many examples where a
swift and fast paced change occured. Who would have imagine the
cellular penetration in pakistan or Mcdonalds getting successful in
breaking the "anda Burger" market. And KFC as replacement of the
famous broast outlets.
I totally agree with you that its just the matter of time, however the
point which I wanted to make is that as technology WiMax is not a
failure at all.
The deployment scenarios, and inefficient business processes played a
very negative role for this for which I personaly blame the cellular
comapnies who tried implementing this data infrastrucutre with voice
oriented mindset and human resouces. No ?
/HS
On 11/12/09, Muhammad Waqar <waqar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I do agree with Mr. Shamsi. WiMAX has proved to have a strong revenue
> generation source in BB market.
> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 9:01 PM, Haris Shamsi <haris.sha...@gmail.com>wrote:
>> So Rizwan, why do you think clear wire raised so much money in a
>> "developed" country to further rollout wimax ?
>> On 11/12/09, Rizwan Sarwar <rsar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Correct Saqib, WiMax is not going to work in developed countries because
>> the
>> > alternatives infrastructures are well established. Wired being the
>> dominant
>> > form and wireless (3G, WiFi) being the 2nd best option available. It
>> makes
>> > sense for mobile providers too, they already have infrastructure in
>> > place
>> to
>> > add 3G to their offerings. Why invest in a technology that will require
>> > substantial capital to deploy and the return is purely not going to come
>> > easy since breaking into rival market is nearly impossible.
>> > For Pakistan things are much simpler, Wired infrastructure is shit, and
>> > wireless is non-existant, so it is the perfect place to deploy such
>> > technology. However doing half hearted attempts is exactly the sort of
>> thing
>> > that providers want to and should avoid. Otherwise over time the
>> > wired/3G
>> > will catch up and WiMax will have no where to go. The technology itself
>> is
>> > not bad at all, signal penetration problems exist with 3G too, the
>> providers
>> > have got round that by increasing the density of Masts and Access points
>> in
>> > congested areas. Last time when I visited Pakistan, Wateen were touting
>> > WiMax availability, and all they had were one mast per city. I don't
>> > know
>> > how have things improved now, but IMO if a WiMax provider wants to gain
>> > upper hand in the market then they need to get the infrastructure
>> problems
>> > solved and get on top of things. Otherwise it will be another lost
>> > cause.
>> > /Rizwan
>> > On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Saqib Ilyas <msa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Haris
>> >> My knowledge base suggests that the frequency is such that the signal
>> >> penetration through walls is poor. Hence if your CPE is near a window,
>> >> your
>> >> experience is good, otherwise it is poor. Unless of course you get a
>> roof
>> >> mount antenna which is a few extra bucks.
>> >> In a country like Pakistan where landline quality is still bad even for
>> >> many subscribers in major cities, WiMax does come as a blessing. In
>> >> more
>> >> developed countries, some businesses do use wireless for backup, with
>> >> wireline (optical etc) for primary connectivity.
>> >> My two cents.
>> >> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Haris Shamsi
>> >> <haris.sha...@gmail.com>wrote:
>> >>> While there is a strong group of people who have always rejected WiMAX
>> as
>> >>> a substitute of other Mediums of Internet Connection in Pakistan, 3-4
>> >>> Major
>> >>> Players in Pakistan Kept investing in to WiMAX arena till early 2008.
>> >>> Rather
>> >>> couple of them are still investing like Augere and Wi-Tribe. Whether
>> the
>> >>> operators in general got the success or not there is no denial to the
>> >>> fact
>> >>> the WiMAX networks roll outs are still happening not only in emerging
>> >>> economies but also in stable (stable Markets).
>> >>> If i remember correctly, the arguments from ANTI WiMAX School of
>> thought
>> >>> started from a point that some how the frequency interference is
>> >>> happening
>> >>> with some Satellite frequency band or some thing, then the issue of
>> >>> end
>> >>> to
>> >>> end business model raised very aggressively in regards of service
>> >>> delivery
>> >>> etc ( i know the pioneer deployment of WiMAX network initially had
>> >>> some
>> >>> issues in Pakistan). After that suddenly 3 more networks emerged and
>> >>> really
>> >>> struggled (and still are struggling) to get their size of Pie from
>> >>> existing
>> >>> low penetrated broadband market. Yes, they have faced challenges and
>> >>> might
>> >>> still be facing them for another couple of years or so till the time
>> >>> economic situation gets better however the Anti WIMAX group never got
>> >>> a
>> >>> real
>> >>> success in proving their claims that WiMAX is a Failure. Although many
>> >>> times
>> >>> at open forums as well as in closed meetings the operators investing
>> >>> in
>> >>> WiMAX technology were being called "foolish"
>> >>> I was going through the recent update that Clearwire raises an
>> additional
>> >>> $1.5B to continue building its nationwide WiMAX network
>> >>> Sprint, Comcast, Time Warner Cable, and Bright House Networks (to name
>> a
>> >>> few) continue to bet big on Clearwire’s WiMAX nationwide wireless
>> >>> network.
>> >>> The foursome have just pumped an additional $1.494 billion into
>> >>> Clearwire’s
>> >>> coffer, with another $50 million coming from Intel and $20 million
>> >>> from
>> >>> Eagle River Holdings. CHA-CHING.
>> >>> More specifically, Sprint, which owns 51 percent of Clearwire,
>> >>> invested
>> >>> $1.176 billion, Comcast Corp. put in $196 million, Time Warner Cable
>> Inc.
>> >>> dropped another $103 million, and Bright House Networks contributed a
>> >>> cool
>> >>> $19 million.
>> >>> According to Christopher King, an analyst at Stifel Nicolaus, the new
>> >>> influx increased Clearwire’s cash stockpile to a whopping $1.8 billion
>> >>> and
>> >>> will help to mitigate the “funding gap” for its nationwide WiMAX
>> network
>> >>> build-out to $3 billion. The new funds will purportedly allow
>> >>> Clearwire
>> >>> to
>> >>> hold off on raising more dough until at least the end of 2011.
>> >>> So i am really trying to understand that whats the cause of a failure
>> (as
>> >>> a business ) as they call it. I am not convinced at all that it is
>> >>> technology, even i don't blame the timings however i personally think
>> >>> that
>> >>> the economic conditions and security situation has played a major role
>> in
>> >>> limiting the growth of WiMAX networks. And this is not only related to
>> >>> WiMAX
>> >>> but i havent seen any major growth in other mediums like DSL or FTTH
>> >>> networks in Pakistan . It would be unjust to mention that CDMA 2 K has
>> >>> played a vital role in increasing the size of the pie for Broadband
>> >>> Wireless
>> >>> Networks.
>> >>> It should be of interest to the readers that the approximate
>> >>> subscriber
>> >>> base of the WiMAX players in Pakistan is around 150 K at present where
>> >>> Wateen Claims to be at 100,000, Mobilink at 25,000 (in Karachi Only) ,
>> >>> Wi-Tribe at 20,000 and Augere reaching the five figures.
>> >>> Comments ?
>> >>> /Haris Shamsi
>> >>> --
>> >>> Muhammad Saqib Ilyas
>> >>> PhD Student, Computer Science and Engineering
>> >>> Lahore University of Management Sciences
> So Rizwan, why do you think clear wire raised so much money in a
> "developed" country to further rollout wimax ?
> On 11/12/09, Rizwan Sarwar <rsar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Correct Saqib, WiMax is not going to work in developed countries because
> the
> > alternatives infrastructures are well established. Wired being the
> dominant
> > form and wireless (3G, WiFi) being the 2nd best option available. It
> makes
> > sense for mobile providers too, they already have infrastructure in place
> to
> > add 3G to their offerings. Why invest in a technology that will require
> > substantial capital to deploy and the return is purely not going to come
> > easy since breaking into rival market is nearly impossible.
> > For Pakistan things are much simpler, Wired infrastructure is shit, and
> > wireless is non-existant, so it is the perfect place to deploy such
> > technology. However doing half hearted attempts is exactly the sort of
> thing
> > that providers want to and should avoid. Otherwise over time the wired/3G
> > will catch up and WiMax will have no where to go. The technology itself
> is
> > not bad at all, signal penetration problems exist with 3G too, the
> providers
> > have got round that by increasing the density of Masts and Access points
> in
> > congested areas. Last time when I visited Pakistan, Wateen were touting
> > WiMax availability, and all they had were one mast per city. I don't know
> > how have things improved now, but IMO if a WiMax provider wants to gain
> > upper hand in the market then they need to get the infrastructure
> problems
> > solved and get on top of things. Otherwise it will be another lost cause.
> > /Rizwan
> > On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Saqib Ilyas <msa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Haris
> >> My knowledge base suggests that the frequency is such that the signal
> >> penetration through walls is poor. Hence if your CPE is near a window,
> >> your
> >> experience is good, otherwise it is poor. Unless of course you get a
> roof
> >> mount antenna which is a few extra bucks.
> >> In a country like Pakistan where landline quality is still bad even for
> >> many subscribers in major cities, WiMax does come as a blessing. In more
> >> developed countries, some businesses do use wireless for backup, with
> >> wireline (optical etc) for primary connectivity.
> >> My two cents.
> >> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Haris Shamsi
> >> <haris.sha...@gmail.com>wrote:
> >>> While there is a strong group of people who have always rejected WiMAX
> as
> >>> a substitute of other Mediums of Internet Connection in Pakistan, 3-4
> >>> Major
> >>> Players in Pakistan Kept investing in to WiMAX arena till early 2008.
> >>> Rather
> >>> couple of them are still investing like Augere and Wi-Tribe. Whether
> the
> >>> operators in general got the success or not there is no denial to the
> >>> fact
> >>> the WiMAX networks roll outs are still happening not only in emerging
> >>> economies but also in stable (stable Markets).
> >>> If i remember correctly, the arguments from ANTI WiMAX School of
> thought
> >>> started from a point that some how the frequency interference is
> >>> happening
> >>> with some Satellite frequency band or some thing, then the issue of end
> >>> to
> >>> end business model raised very aggressively in regards of service
> >>> delivery
> >>> etc ( i know the pioneer deployment of WiMAX network initially had some
> >>> issues in Pakistan). After that suddenly 3 more networks emerged and
> >>> really
> >>> struggled (and still are struggling) to get their size of Pie from
> >>> existing
> >>> low penetrated broadband market. Yes, they have faced challenges and
> >>> might
> >>> still be facing them for another couple of years or so till the time
> >>> economic situation gets better however the Anti WIMAX group never got a
> >>> real
> >>> success in proving their claims that WiMAX is a Failure. Although many
> >>> times
> >>> at open forums as well as in closed meetings the operators investing in
> >>> WiMAX technology were being called "foolish"
> >>> I was going through the recent update that Clearwire raises an
> additional
> >>> $1.5B to continue building its nationwide WiMAX network
> >>> Sprint, Comcast, Time Warner Cable, and Bright House Networks (to name
> a
> >>> few) continue to bet big on Clearwire’s WiMAX nationwide wireless
> >>> network.
> >>> The foursome have just pumped an additional $1.494 billion into
> >>> Clearwire’s
> >>> coffer, with another $50 million coming from Intel and $20 million from
> >>> Eagle River Holdings. CHA-CHING.
> >>> More specifically, Sprint, which owns 51 percent of Clearwire, invested
> >>> $1.176 billion, Comcast Corp. put in $196 million, Time Warner Cable
> Inc.
> >>> dropped another $103 million, and Bright House Networks contributed a
> >>> cool
> >>> $19 million.
> >>> According to Christopher King, an analyst at Stifel Nicolaus, the new
> >>> influx increased Clearwire’s cash stockpile to a whopping $1.8 billion
> >>> and
> >>> will help to mitigate the “funding gap” for its nationwide WiMAX
> network
> >>> build-out to $3 billion. The new funds will purportedly allow Clearwire
> >>> to
> >>> hold off on raising more dough until at least the end of 2011.
> >>> So i am really trying to understand that whats the cause of a failure
> (as
> >>> a business ) as they call it. I am not convinced at all that it is
> >>> technology, even i don't blame the timings however i personally think
> >>> that
> >>> the economic conditions and security situation has played a major role
> in
> >>> limiting the growth of WiMAX networks. And this is not only related to
> >>> WiMAX
> >>> but i havent seen any major growth in other mediums like DSL or FTTH
> >>> networks in Pakistan . It would be unjust to mention that CDMA 2 K has
> >>> played a vital role in increasing the size of the pie for Broadband
> >>> Wireless
> >>> Networks.
> >>> It should be of interest to the readers that the approximate subscriber
> >>> base of the WiMAX players in Pakistan is around 150 K at present where
> >>> Wateen Claims to be at 100,000, Mobilink at 25,000 (in Karachi Only) ,
> >>> Wi-Tribe at 20,000 and Augere reaching the five figures.
> >>> Comments ?
> >>> /Haris Shamsi
> >>> --
> >>> Muhammad Saqib Ilyas
> >>> PhD Student, Computer Science and Engineering
> >>> Lahore University of Management Sciences
Love to comments on this thread but have limited time right now due to
travel schedule. Will respond in detail. But just as an example please find
below a successfull story in another developed market.......technology,
planning, reachability, cost effectiveness and successful business plan
strongly depends on APPLICATIONS. Need to see that what value WiMAX and its
applications can add in masses?
"Our business experience may be used as a reference point for other mobile
WiMax operators. It demonstrates that 4G broadband services business can be
quite profitable," states the company's general director Denis Sverdlov in
today's press release.
But while there's no doubt the Yota team has made a number of critical
decisions that have worked in its favor, it's questionable whether many
other WiMax startups will boast the same level of financial backing, operate
in a similar competitive environment, and have the *cojones* to match Yota's
decisions on vendor partners, backhaul investments, and subscriber growth
strateg
On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 10:57 PM, liveunplug...@hotmail.com <
bmugh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> *1. If Clearwire is spending so much, then also look at size of the
> country + population + reach they are planning to target. **
> 2. They're spending so much because it works better in developed countries
> than the developing nations.
> 3. The technology is produced to provide and easy internet solution to an
> underdeveloped consumer but who said that it works well there?
> 4. It obviously works better in US etc where there are no sight and loss
> issues.
> Thanks.
> *
> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 9:01 PM, Haris Shamsi <haris.sha...@gmail.com>wrote:
>> So Rizwan, why do you think clear wire raised so much money in a
>> "developed" country to further rollout wimax ?
>> On 11/12/09, Rizwan Sarwar <rsar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Correct Saqib, WiMax is not going to work in developed countries because
>> the
>> > alternatives infrastructures are well established. Wired being the
>> dominant
>> > form and wireless (3G, WiFi) being the 2nd best option available. It
>> makes
>> > sense for mobile providers too, they already have infrastructure in
>> place to
>> > add 3G to their offerings. Why invest in a technology that will require
>> > substantial capital to deploy and the return is purely not going to come
>> > easy since breaking into rival market is nearly impossible.
>> > For Pakistan things are much simpler, Wired infrastructure is shit, and
>> > wireless is non-existant, so it is the perfect place to deploy such
>> > technology. However doing half hearted attempts is exactly the sort of
>> thing
>> > that providers want to and should avoid. Otherwise over time the
>> wired/3G
>> > will catch up and WiMax will have no where to go. The technology itself
>> is
>> > not bad at all, signal penetration problems exist with 3G too, the
>> providers
>> > have got round that by increasing the density of Masts and Access points
>> in
>> > congested areas. Last time when I visited Pakistan, Wateen were touting
>> > WiMax availability, and all they had were one mast per city. I don't
>> know
>> > how have things improved now, but IMO if a WiMax provider wants to gain
>> > upper hand in the market then they need to get the infrastructure
>> problems
>> > solved and get on top of things. Otherwise it will be another lost
>> cause.
>> > /Rizwan
>> > On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Saqib Ilyas <msa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Haris
>> >> My knowledge base suggests that the frequency is such that the signal
>> >> penetration through walls is poor. Hence if your CPE is near a window,
>> >> your
>> >> experience is good, otherwise it is poor. Unless of course you get a
>> roof
>> >> mount antenna which is a few extra bucks.
>> >> In a country like Pakistan where landline quality is still bad even for
>> >> many subscribers in major cities, WiMax does come as a blessing. In
>> more
>> >> developed countries, some businesses do use wireless for backup, with
>> >> wireline (optical etc) for primary connectivity.
>> >> My two cents.
>> >> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Haris Shamsi
>> >> <haris.sha...@gmail.com>wrote:
>> >>> While there is a strong group of people who have always rejected WiMAX
>> as
>> >>> a substitute of other Mediums of Internet Connection in Pakistan, 3-4
>> >>> Major
>> >>> Players in Pakistan Kept investing in to WiMAX arena till early 2008.
>> >>> Rather
>> >>> couple of them are still investing like Augere and Wi-Tribe. Whether
>> the
>> >>> operators in general got the success or not there is no denial to the
>> >>> fact
>> >>> the WiMAX networks roll outs are still happening not only in emerging
>> >>> economies but also in stable (stable Markets).
>> >>> If i remember correctly, the arguments from ANTI WiMAX School of
>> thought
>> >>> started from a point that some how the frequency interference is
>> >>> happening
>> >>> with some Satellite frequency band or some thing, then the issue of
>> end
>> >>> to
>> >>> end business model raised very aggressively in regards of service
>> >>> delivery
>> >>> etc ( i know the pioneer deployment of WiMAX network initially had
>> some
>> >>> issues in Pakistan). After that suddenly 3 more networks emerged and
>> >>> really
>> >>> struggled (and still are struggling) to get their size of Pie from
>> >>> existing
>> >>> low penetrated broadband market. Yes, they have faced challenges and
>> >>> might
>> >>> still be facing them for another couple of years or so till the time
>> >>> economic situation gets better however the Anti WIMAX group never got
>> a
>> >>> real
>> >>> success in proving their claims that WiMAX is a Failure. Although many
>> >>> times
>> >>> at open forums as well as in closed meetings the operators investing
>> in
>> >>> WiMAX technology were being called "foolish"
>> >>> I was going through the recent update that Clearwire raises an
>> additional
>> >>> $1.5B to continue building its nationwide WiMAX network
>> >>> Sprint, Comcast, Time Warner Cable, and Bright House Networks (to name
>> a
>> >>> few) continue to bet big on Clearwire’s WiMAX nationwide wireless
>> >>> network.
>> >>> The foursome have just pumped an additional $1.494 billion into
>> >>> Clearwire’s
>> >>> coffer, with another $50 million coming from Intel and $20 million
>> from
>> >>> Eagle River Holdings. CHA-CHING.
>> >>> More specifically, Sprint, which owns 51 percent of Clearwire,
>> invested
>> >>> $1.176 billion, Comcast Corp. put in $196 million, Time Warner Cable
>> Inc.
>> >>> dropped another $103 million, and Bright House Networks contributed a
>> >>> cool
>> >>> $19 million.
>> >>> According to Christopher King, an analyst at Stifel Nicolaus, the new
>> >>> influx increased Clearwire’s cash stockpile to a whopping $1.8 billion
>> >>> and
>> >>> will help to mitigate the “funding gap” for its nationwide WiMAX
>> network
>> >>> build-out to $3 billion. The new funds will purportedly allow
>> Clearwire
>> >>> to
>> >>> hold off on raising more dough until at least the end of 2011.
>> >>> So i am really trying to understand that whats the cause of a failure
>> (as
>> >>> a business ) as they call it. I am not convinced at all that it is
>> >>> technology, even i don't blame the timings however i personally think
>> >>> that
>> >>> the economic conditions and security situation has played a major role
>> in
>> >>> limiting the growth of WiMAX networks. And this is not only related to
>> >>> WiMAX
>> >>> but i havent seen any major growth in other mediums like DSL or FTTH
>> >>> networks in Pakistan . It would be unjust to mention that CDMA 2 K has
>> >>> played a vital role in increasing the size of the pie for Broadband
>> >>> Wireless
>> >>> Networks.
>> >>> It should be of interest to the readers that the approximate
>> subscriber
>> >>> base of the WiMAX players in Pakistan is around 150 K at present where
>> >>> Wateen Claims to be at 100,000, Mobilink at 25,000 (in Karachi Only) ,
>> >>> Wi-Tribe at 20,000 and Augere reaching the five figures.
>> >>> Comments ?
>> >>> /Haris Shamsi
>> >>> --
>> >>> Muhammad Saqib Ilyas
>> >>> PhD Student, Computer Science and Engineering
>> >>> Lahore University of Management Sciences
On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 11:30 PM, Shahzad Alam <shahz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Guys,
> Love to comments on this thread but have limited time right now due to
> travel schedule. Will respond in detail. But just as an example please find
> below a successfull story in another developed market.......technology,
> planning, reachability, cost effectiveness and successful business plan
> strongly depends on APPLICATIONS. Need to see that what value WiMAX and its
> applications can add in masses?
> "Our business experience may be used as a reference point for other mobile
> WiMax operators. It demonstrates that 4G broadband services business can be
> quite profitable," states the company's general director Denis Sverdlov in
> today's press release.
> But while there's no doubt the Yota team has made a number of critical
> decisions that have worked in its favor, it's questionable whether many
> other WiMax startups will boast the same level of financial backing, operate
> in a similar competitive environment, and have the *cojones* to match
> Yota's decisions on vendor partners, backhaul investments, and subscriber
> growth strateg
> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 10:57 PM, liveunplug...@hotmail.com <
> bmugh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> *1. If Clearwire is spending so much, then also look at size of the
>> country + population + reach they are planning to target. **
>> 2. They're spending so much because it works better in developed countries
>> than the developing nations.
>> 3. The technology is produced to provide and easy internet solution to an
>> underdeveloped consumer but who said that it works well there?
>> 4. It obviously works better in US etc where there are no sight and loss
>> issues.
>> Thanks.
>> *
>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 9:01 PM, Haris Shamsi <haris.sha...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>> So Rizwan, why do you think clear wire raised so much money in a
>>> "developed" country to further rollout wimax ?
>>> On 11/12/09, Rizwan Sarwar <rsar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > Correct Saqib, WiMax is not going to work in developed countries
>>> because the
>>> > alternatives infrastructures are well established. Wired being the
>>> dominant
>>> > form and wireless (3G, WiFi) being the 2nd best option available. It
>>> makes
>>> > sense for mobile providers too, they already have infrastructure in
>>> place to
>>> > add 3G to their offerings. Why invest in a technology that will require
>>> > substantial capital to deploy and the return is purely not going to
>>> come
>>> > easy since breaking into rival market is nearly impossible.
>>> > For Pakistan things are much simpler, Wired infrastructure is shit, and
>>> > wireless is non-existant, so it is the perfect place to deploy such
>>> > technology. However doing half hearted attempts is exactly the sort of
>>> thing
>>> > that providers want to and should avoid. Otherwise over time the
>>> wired/3G
>>> > will catch up and WiMax will have no where to go. The technology itself
>>> is
>>> > not bad at all, signal penetration problems exist with 3G too, the
>>> providers
>>> > have got round that by increasing the density of Masts and Access
>>> points in
>>> > congested areas. Last time when I visited Pakistan, Wateen were touting
>>> > WiMax availability, and all they had were one mast per city. I don't
>>> know
>>> > how have things improved now, but IMO if a WiMax provider wants to gain
>>> > upper hand in the market then they need to get the infrastructure
>>> problems
>>> > solved and get on top of things. Otherwise it will be another lost
>>> cause.
>>> > /Rizwan
>>> > On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Saqib Ilyas <msa...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >> Haris
>>> >> My knowledge base suggests that the frequency is such that the signal
>>> >> penetration through walls is poor. Hence if your CPE is near a window,
>>> >> your
>>> >> experience is good, otherwise it is poor. Unless of course you get a
>>> roof
>>> >> mount antenna which is a few extra bucks.
>>> >> In a country like Pakistan where landline quality is still bad even
>>> for
>>> >> many subscribers in major cities, WiMax does come as a blessing. In
>>> more
>>> >> developed countries, some businesses do use wireless for backup, with
>>> >> wireline (optical etc) for primary connectivity.
>>> >> My two cents.
>>> >> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Haris Shamsi
>>> >> <haris.sha...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>> >>> While there is a strong group of people who have always rejected
>>> WiMAX as
>>> >>> a substitute of other Mediums of Internet Connection in Pakistan, 3-4
>>> >>> Major
>>> >>> Players in Pakistan Kept investing in to WiMAX arena till early 2008.
>>> >>> Rather
>>> >>> couple of them are still investing like Augere and Wi-Tribe. Whether
>>> the
>>> >>> operators in general got the success or not there is no denial to the
>>> >>> fact
>>> >>> the WiMAX networks roll outs are still happening not only in emerging
>>> >>> economies but also in stable (stable Markets).
>>> >>> If i remember correctly, the arguments from ANTI WiMAX School of
>>> thought
>>> >>> started from a point that some how the frequency interference is
>>> >>> happening
>>> >>> with some Satellite frequency band or some thing, then the issue of
>>> end
>>> >>> to
>>> >>> end business model raised very aggressively in regards of service
>>> >>> delivery
>>> >>> etc ( i know the pioneer deployment of WiMAX network initially had
>>> some
>>> >>> issues in Pakistan). After that suddenly 3 more networks emerged and
>>> >>> really
>>> >>> struggled (and still are struggling) to get their size of Pie from
>>> >>> existing
>>> >>> low penetrated broadband market. Yes, they have faced challenges and
>>> >>> might
>>> >>> still be facing them for another couple of years or so till the time
>>> >>> economic situation gets better however the Anti WIMAX group never got
>>> a
>>> >>> real
>>> >>> success in proving their claims that WiMAX is a Failure. Although
>>> many
>>> >>> times
>>> >>> at open forums as well as in closed meetings the operators investing
>>> in
>>> >>> WiMAX technology were being called "foolish"
>>> >>> I was going through the recent update that Clearwire raises an
>>> additional
>>> >>> $1.5B to continue building its nationwide WiMAX network
>>> >>> Sprint, Comcast, Time Warner Cable, and Bright House Networks (to
>>> name a
>>> >>> few) continue to bet big on Clearwire’s WiMAX nationwide wireless
>>> >>> network.
>>> >>> The foursome have just pumped an additional $1.494 billion into
>>> >>> Clearwire’s
>>> >>> coffer, with another $50 million coming from Intel and $20 million
>>> from
>>> >>> Eagle River Holdings. CHA-CHING.
>>> >>> More specifically, Sprint, which owns 51 percent of Clearwire,
>>> invested
>>> >>> $1.176 billion, Comcast Corp. put in $196 million, Time Warner Cable
>>> Inc.
>>> >>> dropped another $103 million, and Bright House Networks contributed a
>>> >>> cool
>>> >>> $19 million.
>>> >>> According to Christopher King, an analyst at Stifel Nicolaus, the new
>>> >>> influx increased Clearwire’s cash stockpile to a whopping $1.8
>>> billion
>>> >>> and
>>> >>> will help to mitigate the “funding gap” for its nationwide WiMAX
>>> network
>>> >>> build-out to $3 billion. The new funds will purportedly allow
>>> Clearwire
>>> >>> to
>>> >>> hold off on raising more dough until at least the end of 2011.
>>> >>> So i am really trying to understand that whats the cause of a failure
>>> (as
>>> >>> a business ) as they call it. I am not convinced at all that it is
>>> >>> technology, even i don't blame the timings however i personally think
>>> >>> that
>>> >>> the economic conditions and security situation has played a major
>>> role in
>>> >>> limiting the growth of WiMAX networks. And this is not only related
>>> to
>>> >>> WiMAX
>>> >>> but i havent seen any major growth in other mediums like DSL or FTTH
>>> >>> networks in Pakistan . It would be unjust to mention that CDMA 2 K
>>> has
>>> >>> played a vital role in increasing the size of the pie for Broadband
>>> >>> Wireless
>>> >>> Networks.
>>> >>> It should be of interest to the readers that the approximate
>>> subscriber
>>> >>> base of the WiMAX players in Pakistan is around 150 K at present
-----Original Message-----
From: Haris Shamsi <haris.sha...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 22:11:35 To: <telecom-grid-pakistan@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Whats the Future of WiMAX in Pakistan
Faisal I believe in this era, cultural change could happen pretty
fast. There could be examples where this economy showed stuobrness
against a cultural change but I can put across many examples where a
swift and fast paced change occured. Who would have imagine the
cellular penetration in pakistan or Mcdonalds getting successful in
breaking the "anda Burger" market. And KFC as replacement of the
famous broast outlets.
I totally agree with you that its just the matter of time, however the
point which I wanted to make is that as technology WiMax is not a
failure at all.
The deployment scenarios, and inefficient business processes played a
very negative role for this for which I personaly blame the cellular
comapnies who tried implementing this data infrastrucutre with voice
oriented mindset and human resouces. No ?
/HS
On 11/12/09, Muhammad Waqar <waqar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I do agree with Mr. Shamsi. WiMAX has proved to have a strong revenue
> generation source in BB market.
> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 9:01 PM, Haris Shamsi <haris.sha...@gmail.com>wrote:
>> So Rizwan, why do you think clear wire raised so much money in a
>> "developed" country to further rollout wimax ?
>> On 11/12/09, Rizwan Sarwar <rsar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Correct Saqib, WiMax is not going to work in developed countries because
>> the
>> > alternatives infrastructures are well established. Wired being the
>> dominant
>> > form and wireless (3G, WiFi) being the 2nd best option available. It
>> makes
>> > sense for mobile providers too, they already have infrastructure in
>> > place
>> to
>> > add 3G to their offerings. Why invest in a technology that will require
>> > substantial capital to deploy and the return is purely not going to come
>> > easy since breaking into rival market is nearly impossible.
>> > For Pakistan things are much simpler, Wired infrastructure is shit, and
>> > wireless is non-existant, so it is the perfect place to deploy such
>> > technology. However doing half hearted attempts is exactly the sort of
>> thing
>> > that providers want to and should avoid. Otherwise over time the
>> > wired/3G
>> > will catch up and WiMax will have no where to go. The technology itself
>> is
>> > not bad at all, signal penetration problems exist with 3G too, the
>> providers
>> > have got round that by increasing the density of Masts and Access points
>> in
>> > congested areas. Last time when I visited Pakistan, Wateen were touting
>> > WiMax availability, and all they had were one mast per city. I don't
>> > know
>> > how have things improved now, but IMO if a WiMax provider wants to gain
>> > upper hand in the market then they need to get the infrastructure
>> problems
>> > solved and get on top of things. Otherwise it will be another lost
>> > cause.
>> > /Rizwan
>> > On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Saqib Ilyas <msa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Haris
>> >> My knowledge base suggests that the frequency is such that the signal
>> >> penetration through walls is poor. Hence if your CPE is near a window,
>> >> your
>> >> experience is good, otherwise it is poor. Unless of course you get a
>> roof
>> >> mount antenna which is a few extra bucks.
>> >> In a country like Pakistan where landline quality is still bad even for
>> >> many subscribers in major cities, WiMax does come as a blessing. In
>> >> more
>> >> developed countries, some businesses do use wireless for backup, with
>> >> wireline (optical etc) for primary connectivity.
>> >> My two cents.
>> >> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Haris Shamsi
>> >> <haris.sha...@gmail.com>wrote:
>> >>> While there is a strong group of people who have always rejected WiMAX
>> as
>> >>> a substitute of other Mediums of Internet Connection in Pakistan, 3-4
>> >>> Major
>> >>> Players in Pakistan Kept investing in to WiMAX arena till early 2008.
>> >>> Rather
>> >>> couple of them are still investing like Augere and Wi-Tribe. Whether
>> the
>> >>> operators in general got the success or not there is no denial to the
>> >>> fact
>> >>> the WiMAX networks roll outs are still happening not only in emerging
>> >>> economies but also in stable (stable Markets).
>> >>> If i remember correctly, the arguments from ANTI WiMAX School of
>> thought
>> >>> started from a point that some how the frequency interference is
>> >>> happening
>> >>> with some Satellite frequency band or some thing, then the issue of
>> >>> end
>> >>> to
>> >>> end business model raised very aggressively in regards of service
>> >>> delivery
>> >>> etc ( i know the pioneer deployment of WiMAX network initially had
>> >>> some
>> >>> issues in Pakistan). After that suddenly 3 more networks emerged and
>> >>> really
>> >>> struggled (and still are struggling) to get their size of Pie from
>> >>> existing
>> >>> low penetrated broadband market. Yes, they have faced challenges and
>> >>> might
>> >>> still be facing them for another couple of years or so till the time
>> >>> economic situation gets better however the Anti WIMAX group never got
>> >>> a
>> >>> real
>> >>> success in proving their claims that WiMAX is a Failure. Although many
>> >>> times
>> >>> at open forums as well as in closed meetings the operators investing
>> >>> in
>> >>> WiMAX technology were being called "foolish"
>> >>> I was going through the recent update that Clearwire raises an
>> additional
>> >>> $1.5B to continue building its nationwide WiMAX network
>> >>> Sprint, Comcast, Time Warner Cable, and Bright House Networks (to name
>> a
>> >>> few) continue to bet big on Clearwire’s WiMAX nationwide wireless
>> >>> network.
>> >>> The foursome have just pumped an additional $1.494 billion into
>> >>> Clearwire’s
>> >>> coffer, with another $50 million coming from Intel and $20 million
>> >>> from
>> >>> Eagle River Holdings. CHA-CHING.
>> >>> More specifically, Sprint, which owns 51 percent of Clearwire,
>> >>> invested
>> >>> $1.176 billion, Comcast Corp. put in $196 million, Time Warner Cable
>> Inc.
>> >>> dropped another $103 million, and Bright House Networks contributed a
>> >>> cool
>> >>> $19 million.
>> >>> According to Christopher King, an analyst at Stifel Nicolaus, the new
>> >>> influx increased Clearwire’s cash stockpile to a whopping $1.8 billion
>> >>> and
>> >>> will help to mitigate the “funding gap” for its nationwide WiMAX
>> network
>> >>> build-out to $3 billion. The new funds will purportedly allow
>> >>> Clearwire
>> >>> to
>> >>> hold off on raising more dough until at least the end of 2011.
>> >>> So i am really trying to understand that whats the cause of a failure
>> (as
>> >>> a business ) as they call it. I am not convinced at all that it is
>> >>> technology, even i don't blame the timings however i personally think
>> >>> that
>> >>> the economic conditions and security situation has played a major role
>> in
>> >>> limiting the growth of WiMAX networks. And this is not only related to
>> >>> WiMAX
>> >>> but i havent seen any major growth in other mediums like DSL or FTTH
>> >>> networks in Pakistan . It would be unjust to mention that CDMA 2 K has
>> >>> played a vital role in increasing the size of the pie for Broadband
>> >>> Wireless
>> >>> Networks.
>> >>> It should be of interest to the readers that the approximate
>> >>> subscriber
>> >>> base of the WiMAX players in Pakistan is around 150 K at present where
>> >>> Wateen Claims to be at 100,000, Mobilink at 25,000 (in Karachi Only) ,
>> >>> Wi-Tribe at 20,000 and Augere reaching the five figures.
>> >>> Comments ?
>> >>> /Haris Shamsi
>> >>> --
>> >>> Muhammad Saqib Ilyas
>> >>> PhD Student, Computer Science and Engineering
>> >>> Lahore University of Management Sciences
> Going forward, Do you think LTE is going to be a competition?
> Mustafa
> Empower your Business with BlackBerry® and Mobile Solutions from Etisalat
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Haris Shamsi <haris.sha...@gmail.com>
> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 22:11:35
> To: <telecom-grid-pakistan@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: Whats the Future of WiMAX in Pakistan
> Faisal I believe in this era, cultural change could happen pretty
> fast. There could be examples where this economy showed stuobrness
> against a cultural change but I can put across many examples where a
> swift and fast paced change occured. Who would have imagine the
> cellular penetration in pakistan or Mcdonalds getting successful in
> breaking the "anda Burger" market. And KFC as replacement of the
> famous broast outlets.
> I totally agree with you that its just the matter of time, however the
> point which I wanted to make is that as technology WiMax is not a
> failure at all.
> The deployment scenarios, and inefficient business processes played a
> very negative role for this for which I personaly blame the cellular
> comapnies who tried implementing this data infrastrucutre with voice
> oriented mindset and human resouces. No ?
> /HS
> On 11/12/09, Muhammad Waqar <waqar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I do agree with Mr. Shamsi. WiMAX has proved to have a strong revenue
>> generation source in BB market.
>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 9:01 PM, Haris Shamsi
>> <haris.sha...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>> So Rizwan, why do you think clear wire raised so much money in a
>>> "developed" country to further rollout wimax ?
>>> On 11/12/09, Rizwan Sarwar <rsar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > Correct Saqib, WiMax is not going to work in developed countries
>>> > because
>>> the
>>> > alternatives infrastructures are well established. Wired being the
>>> dominant
>>> > form and wireless (3G, WiFi) being the 2nd best option available. It
>>> makes
>>> > sense for mobile providers too, they already have infrastructure in
>>> > place
>>> to
>>> > add 3G to their offerings. Why invest in a technology that will
>>> > require
>>> > substantial capital to deploy and the return is purely not going to
>>> > come
>>> > easy since breaking into rival market is nearly impossible.
>>> > For Pakistan things are much simpler, Wired infrastructure is shit,
>>> > and
>>> > wireless is non-existant, so it is the perfect place to deploy such
>>> > technology. However doing half hearted attempts is exactly the sort of
>>> thing
>>> > that providers want to and should avoid. Otherwise over time the
>>> > wired/3G
>>> > will catch up and WiMax will have no where to go. The technology
>>> > itself
>>> is
>>> > not bad at all, signal penetration problems exist with 3G too, the
>>> providers
>>> > have got round that by increasing the density of Masts and Access
>>> > points
>>> in
>>> > congested areas. Last time when I visited Pakistan, Wateen were
>>> > touting
>>> > WiMax availability, and all they had were one mast per city. I don't
>>> > know
>>> > how have things improved now, but IMO if a WiMax provider wants to
>>> > gain
>>> > upper hand in the market then they need to get the infrastructure
>>> problems
>>> > solved and get on top of things. Otherwise it will be another lost
>>> > cause.
>>> > /Rizwan
>>> > On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Saqib Ilyas <msa...@gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >> Haris
>>> >> My knowledge base suggests that the frequency is such that the signal
>>> >> penetration through walls is poor. Hence if your CPE is near a
>>> >> window,
>>> >> your
>>> >> experience is good, otherwise it is poor. Unless of course you get a
>>> roof
>>> >> mount antenna which is a few extra bucks.
>>> >> In a country like Pakistan where landline quality is still bad even
>>> >> for
>>> >> many subscribers in major cities, WiMax does come as a blessing. In
>>> >> more
>>> >> developed countries, some businesses do use wireless for backup, with
>>> >> wireline (optical etc) for primary connectivity.
>>> >> My two cents.
>>> >> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Haris Shamsi
>>> >> <haris.sha...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>> >>> While there is a strong group of people who have always rejected
>>> >>> WiMAX
>>> as
>>> >>> a substitute of other Mediums of Internet Connection in Pakistan,
>>> >>> 3-4
>>> >>> Major
>>> >>> Players in Pakistan Kept investing in to WiMAX arena till early
>>> >>> 2008.
>>> >>> Rather
>>> >>> couple of them are still investing like Augere and Wi-Tribe. Whether
>>> the
>>> >>> operators in general got the success or not there is no denial to
>>> >>> the
>>> >>> fact
>>> >>> the WiMAX networks roll outs are still happening not only in
>>> >>> emerging
>>> >>> economies but also in stable (stable Markets).
>>> >>> If i remember correctly, the arguments from ANTI WiMAX School of
>>> thought
>>> >>> started from a point that some how the frequency interference is
>>> >>> happening
>>> >>> with some Satellite frequency band or some thing, then the issue of
>>> >>> end
>>> >>> to
>>> >>> end business model raised very aggressively in regards of service
>>> >>> delivery
>>> >>> etc ( i know the pioneer deployment of WiMAX network initially had
>>> >>> some
>>> >>> issues in Pakistan). After that suddenly 3 more networks emerged and
>>> >>> really
>>> >>> struggled (and still are struggling) to get their size of Pie from
>>> >>> existing
>>> >>> low penetrated broadband market. Yes, they have faced challenges and
>>> >>> might
>>> >>> still be facing them for another couple of years or so till the time
>>> >>> economic situation gets better however the Anti WIMAX group never
>>> >>> got
>>> >>> a
>>> >>> real
>>> >>> success in proving their claims that WiMAX is a Failure. Although
>>> >>> many
>>> >>> times
>>> >>> at open forums as well as in closed meetings the operators investing
>>> >>> in
>>> >>> WiMAX technology were being called "foolish"
>>> >>> I was going through the recent update that Clearwire raises an
>>> additional
>>> >>> $1.5B to continue building its nationwide WiMAX network
>>> >>> Sprint, Comcast, Time Warner Cable, and Bright House Networks (to
>>> >>> name
>>> a
>>> >>> few) continue to bet big on Clearwire’s WiMAX nationwide wireless
>>> >>> network.
>>> >>> The foursome have just pumped an additional $1.494 billion into
>>> >>> Clearwire’s
>>> >>> coffer, with another $50 million coming from Intel and $20 million
>>> >>> from
>>> >>> Eagle River Holdings. CHA-CHING.
>>> >>> More specifically, Sprint, which owns 51 percent of Clearwire,
>>> >>> invested
>>> >>> $1.176 billion, Comcast Corp. put in $196 million, Time Warner Cable
>>> Inc.
>>> >>> dropped another $103 million, and Bright House Networks contributed
>>> >>> a
>>> >>> cool
>>> >>> $19 million.
>>> >>> According to Christopher King, an analyst at Stifel Nicolaus, the
>>> >>> new
>>> >>> influx increased Clearwire’s cash stockpile to a whopping $1.8
>>> >>> billion
>>> >>> and
>>> >>> will help to mitigate the “funding gap” for its nationwide WiMAX
>>> network
>>> >>> build-out to $3 billion. The new funds will purportedly allow
>>> >>> Clearwire
>>> >>> to
>>> >>> hold off on raising more dough until at least the end of 2011.
>>> >>> So i am really trying to understand that whats the cause of a
>>> >>> failure
>>> (as
>>> >>> a business ) as they call it. I am not convinced at all that it is
>>> >>> technology, even i don't blame the timings however i personally
>>> >>> think
>>> >>> that
>>> >>> the economic conditions and security situation has played a major
>>> >>> role
>>> in
>>> >>> limiting the growth of WiMAX networks. And this is not only related
>>> >>> to
>>> >>> WiMAX
>>> >>> but i havent seen any major growth in other mediums like DSL or FTTH
>>> >>> networks in Pakistan . It would be unjust to mention that CDMA 2 K
>>> >>> has
>>> >>> played a vital role in increasing the size of the pie for Broadband
>>> >>> Wireless
>>> >>> Networks.
>>> >>> It should be of interest to the readers that the approximate
>>> >>> subscriber
>>> >>> base of the WiMAX players in Pakistan is around 150 K at present
>>> >>> where
>>> >>> Wateen Claims to be at 100,000, Mobilink at 25,000 (in Karachi Only)
>>> >>> ,
>>> >>> Wi-Tribe at 20,000 and Augere reaching the five figures.
>>> >>> Comments ?
>>> >>> /Haris Shamsi
>>> >>> --
>>> >>> Muhammad Saqib Ilyas
>>> >>> PhD Student, Computer Science and Engineering
>>> >>> Lahore University of Management Sciences
Yes, frequency and location together do make a difference. Free spectrum
based deployments of radio links, for instance, may still be feasible at
some locations, whereas, due to excessive users at other locations, the
quality/throughput may not be good.
On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 9:38 AM, Fawad Niazi <niazi.fa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Is there any linkage of frequency to success? 3.5GHz in Pakistan...Is it
> same everywhere?
> I have no idea about the service quality as even in Rawalpindi, WiTribe
> coverage is not available at my home:(
> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 11:30 PM, Shahzad Alam <shahz...@gmail.com>wrote:
>> Guys,
>> Love to comments on this thread but have limited time right now due to
>> travel schedule. Will respond in detail. But just as an example please find
>> below a successfull story in another developed market.......technology,
>> planning, reachability, cost effectiveness and successful business plan
>> strongly depends on APPLICATIONS. Need to see that what value WiMAX and its
>> applications can add in masses?
>> "Our business experience may be used as a reference point for other mobile
>> WiMax operators. It demonstrates that 4G broadband services business can be
>> quite profitable," states the company's general director Denis Sverdlov in
>> today's press release.
>> But while there's no doubt the Yota team has made a number of critical
>> decisions that have worked in its favor, it's questionable whether many
>> other WiMax startups will boast the same level of financial backing, operate
>> in a similar competitive environment, and have the *cojones* to match
>> Yota's decisions on vendor partners, backhaul investments, and subscriber
>> growth strateg
>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 10:57 PM, liveunplug...@hotmail.com <
>> bmugh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> *1. If Clearwire is spending so much, then also look at size of the
>>> country + population + reach they are planning to target. **
>>> 2. They're spending so much because it works better in developed
>>> countries than the developing nations.
>>> 3. The technology is produced to provide and easy internet solution to an
>>> underdeveloped consumer but who said that it works well there?
>>> 4. It obviously works better in US etc where there are no sight and loss
>>> issues.
>>> Thanks.
>>> *
>>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 9:01 PM, Haris Shamsi <haris.sha...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>> So Rizwan, why do you think clear wire raised so much money in a
>>>> "developed" country to further rollout wimax ?
>>>> On 11/12/09, Rizwan Sarwar <rsar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > Correct Saqib, WiMax is not going to work in developed countries
>>>> because the
>>>> > alternatives infrastructures are well established. Wired being the
>>>> dominant
>>>> > form and wireless (3G, WiFi) being the 2nd best option available. It
>>>> makes
>>>> > sense for mobile providers too, they already have infrastructure in
>>>> place to
>>>> > add 3G to their offerings. Why invest in a technology that will
>>>> require
>>>> > substantial capital to deploy and the return is purely not going to
>>>> come
>>>> > easy since breaking into rival market is nearly impossible.
>>>> > For Pakistan things are much simpler, Wired infrastructure is shit,
>>>> and
>>>> > wireless is non-existant, so it is the perfect place to deploy such
>>>> > technology. However doing half hearted attempts is exactly the sort of
>>>> thing
>>>> > that providers want to and should avoid. Otherwise over time the
>>>> wired/3G
>>>> > will catch up and WiMax will have no where to go. The technology
>>>> itself is
>>>> > not bad at all, signal penetration problems exist with 3G too, the
>>>> providers
>>>> > have got round that by increasing the density of Masts and Access
>>>> points in
>>>> > congested areas. Last time when I visited Pakistan, Wateen were
>>>> touting
>>>> > WiMax availability, and all they had were one mast per city. I don't
>>>> know
>>>> > how have things improved now, but IMO if a WiMax provider wants to
>>>> gain
>>>> > upper hand in the market then they need to get the infrastructure
>>>> problems
>>>> > solved and get on top of things. Otherwise it will be another lost
>>>> cause.
>>>> > /Rizwan
>>>> > On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Saqib Ilyas <msa...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >> Haris
>>>> >> My knowledge base suggests that the frequency is such that the signal
>>>> >> penetration through walls is poor. Hence if your CPE is near a
>>>> window,
>>>> >> your
>>>> >> experience is good, otherwise it is poor. Unless of course you get a
>>>> roof
>>>> >> mount antenna which is a few extra bucks.
>>>> >> In a country like Pakistan where landline quality is still bad even
>>>> for
>>>> >> many subscribers in major cities, WiMax does come as a blessing. In
>>>> more
>>>> >> developed countries, some businesses do use wireless for backup, with
>>>> >> wireline (optical etc) for primary connectivity.
>>>> >> My two cents.
>>>> >> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Haris Shamsi
>>>> >> <haris.sha...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>> >>> While there is a strong group of people who have always rejected
>>>> WiMAX as
>>>> >>> a substitute of other Mediums of Internet Connection in Pakistan,
>>>> 3-4
>>>> >>> Major
>>>> >>> Players in Pakistan Kept investing in to WiMAX arena till early
>>>> 2008.
>>>> >>> Rather
>>>> >>> couple of them are still investing like Augere and Wi-Tribe. Whether
>>>> the
>>>> >>> operators in general got the success or not there is no denial to
>>>> the
>>>> >>> fact
>>>> >>> the WiMAX networks roll outs are still happening not only in
>>>> emerging
>>>> >>> economies but also in stable (stable Markets).
>>>> >>> If i remember correctly, the arguments from ANTI WiMAX School of
>>>> thought
>>>> >>> started from a point that some how the frequency interference is
>>>> >>> happening
>>>> >>> with some Satellite frequency band or some thing, then the issue of
>>>> end
>>>> >>> to
>>>> >>> end business model raised very aggressively in regards of service
>>>> >>> delivery
>>>> >>> etc ( i know the pioneer deployment of WiMAX network initially had
>>>> some
>>>> >>> issues in Pakistan). After that suddenly 3 more networks emerged and
>>>> >>> really
>>>> >>> struggled (and still are struggling) to get their size of Pie from
>>>> >>> existing
>>>> >>> low penetrated broadband market. Yes, they have faced challenges and
>>>> >>> might
>>>> >>> still be facing them for another couple of years or so till the time
>>>> >>> economic situation gets better however the Anti WIMAX group never
>>>> got a
>>>> >>> real
>>>> >>> success in proving their claims that WiMAX is a Failure. Although
>>>> many
>>>> >>> times
>>>> >>> at open forums as well as in closed meetings the operators investing
>>>> in
>>>> >>> WiMAX technology were being called "foolish"
>>>> >>> I was going through the recent update that Clearwire raises an
>>>> additional
>>>> >>> $1.5B to continue building its nationwide WiMAX network
>>>> >>> Sprint, Comcast, Time Warner Cable, and Bright House Networks (to
>>>> name a
>>>> >>> few) continue to bet big on Clearwire’s WiMAX nationwide wireless
>>>> >>> network.
>>>> >>> The foursome have just pumped an additional $1.494 billion into
>>>> >>> Clearwire’s
>>>> >>> coffer, with another $50 million coming from Intel and $20 million
>>>> from
>>>> >>> Eagle River Holdings. CHA-CHING.
>>>> >>> More specifically, Sprint, which owns 51 percent of Clearwire,
>>>> invested
>>>> >>> $1.176 billion, Comcast Corp. put in $196 million, Time Warner Cable
>>>> Inc.
>>>> >>> dropped another $103 million, and Bright House Networks contributed
>>>> a
>>>> >>> cool
>>>> >>> $19 million.
>>>> >>> According to Christopher King, an analyst at Stifel Nicolaus, the
>>>> new
>>>> >>> influx increased Clearwire’s cash stockpile to a whopping $1.8
>>>> billion
>>>> >>> and
>>>> >>> will help to mitigate the “funding gap” for its nationwide WiMAX
>>>> network
>>>> >>> build-out to $3 billion. The new funds will purportedly allow
>>>> Clearwire
>>>> >>> to
>>>> >>> hold off on raising more dough until at least the end of 2011.
>>>> >>> So i am really trying to understand that whats the cause of a
>>>> failure (as
>>>> >>> a business ) as they call it. I am not convinced at all that it is
>>>> >>> technology, even i don't blame the timings however i personally
>>>> think
>>>> >>> that
>>>> >>> the
Just a note about Sprint's rollout of WiMAX in US. You have to keep in
mind that Sprint is in trouble, bleeding money and losing subscribers.
That colors the success or failure of the launch. Here in Dallas,
Sprint is launching a campaign touting their products but with Verizon
and AT&T in strong position, they dont stand much of a chance. So it
has little to do with technology, more with who is behind it. Just a
point of view.
Babar
On Nov 13, 6:36 am, Saqib Ilyas <msa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, frequency and location together do make a difference. Free spectrum
> based deployments of radio links, for instance, may still be feasible at
> some locations, whereas, due to excessive users at other locations, the
> quality/throughput may not be good.
> On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 9:38 AM, Fawad Niazi <niazi.fa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Is there any linkage of frequency to success? 3.5GHz in Pakistan...Is it
> > same everywhere?
> > I have no idea about the service quality as even in Rawalpindi, WiTribe
> > coverage is not available at my home:(
> > On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 11:30 PM, Shahzad Alam <shahz...@gmail.com>wrote:
> >> Guys,
> >> Love to comments on this thread but have limited time right now due to
> >> travel schedule. Will respond in detail. But just as an example please find
> >> below a successfull story in another developed market.......technology,
> >> planning, reachability, cost effectiveness and successful business plan
> >> strongly depends on APPLICATIONS. Need to see that what value WiMAX and its
> >> applications can add in masses?
> >> "Our business experience may be used as a reference point for other mobile
> >> WiMax operators. It demonstrates that 4G broadband services business can be
> >> quite profitable," states the company's general director Denis Sverdlov in
> >> today's press release.
> >> But while there's no doubt the Yota team has made a number of critical
> >> decisions that have worked in its favor, it's questionable whether many
> >> other WiMax startups will boast the same level of financial backing, operate
> >> in a similar competitive environment, and have the *cojones* to match
> >> Yota's decisions on vendor partners, backhaul investments, and subscriber
> >> growth strateg
> >> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 10:57 PM, liveunplug...@hotmail.com <
> >> bmugh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> *1. If Clearwire is spending so much, then also look at size of the
> >>> country + population + reach they are planning to target. **
> >>> 2. They're spending so much because it works better in developed
> >>> countries than the developing nations.
> >>> 3. The technology is produced to provide and easy internet solution to an
> >>> underdeveloped consumer but who said that it works well there?
> >>> 4. It obviously works better in US etc where there are no sight and loss
> >>> issues.
> >>> Thanks.
> >>> *
> >>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 9:01 PM, Haris Shamsi <haris.sha...@gmail.com>wrote:
> >>>> So Rizwan, why do you think clear wire raised so much money in a
> >>>> "developed" country to further rollout wimax ?
> >>>> On 11/12/09, Rizwan Sarwar <rsar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> > Correct Saqib, WiMax is not going to work in developed countries
> >>>> because the
> >>>> > alternatives infrastructures are well established. Wired being the
> >>>> dominant
> >>>> > form and wireless (3G, WiFi) being the 2nd best option available. It
> >>>> makes
> >>>> > sense for mobile providers too, they already have infrastructure in
> >>>> place to
> >>>> > add 3G to their offerings. Why invest in a technology that will
> >>>> require
> >>>> > substantial capital to deploy and the return is purely not going to
> >>>> come
> >>>> > easy since breaking into rival market is nearly impossible.
> >>>> > For Pakistan things are much simpler, Wired infrastructure is shit,
> >>>> and
> >>>> > wireless is non-existant, so it is the perfect place to deploy such
> >>>> > technology. However doing half hearted attempts is exactly the sort of
> >>>> thing
> >>>> > that providers want to and should avoid. Otherwise over time the
> >>>> wired/3G
> >>>> > will catch up and WiMax will have no where to go. The technology
> >>>> itself is
> >>>> > not bad at all, signal penetration problems exist with 3G too, the
> >>>> providers
> >>>> > have got round that by increasing the density of Masts and Access
> >>>> points in
> >>>> > congested areas. Last time when I visited Pakistan, Wateen were
> >>>> touting
> >>>> > WiMax availability, and all they had were one mast per city. I don't
> >>>> know
> >>>> > how have things improved now, but IMO if a WiMax provider wants to
> >>>> gain
> >>>> > upper hand in the market then they need to get the infrastructure
> >>>> problems
> >>>> > solved and get on top of things. Otherwise it will be another lost
> >>>> cause.
> >>>> > /Rizwan
> >>>> > On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Saqib Ilyas <msa...@gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>> >> Haris
> >>>> >> My knowledge base suggests that the frequency is such that the signal
> >>>> >> penetration through walls is poor. Hence if your CPE is near a
> >>>> window,
> >>>> >> your
> >>>> >> experience is good, otherwise it is poor. Unless of course you get a
> >>>> roof
> >>>> >> mount antenna which is a few extra bucks.
> >>>> >> In a country like Pakistan where landline quality is still bad even
> >>>> for
> >>>> >> many subscribers in major cities, WiMax does come as a blessing. In
> >>>> more
> >>>> >> developed countries, some businesses do use wireless for backup, with
> >>>> >> wireline (optical etc) for primary connectivity.
> >>>> >> My two cents.
> >>>> >> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Haris Shamsi
> >>>> >> <haris.sha...@gmail.com>wrote:
> >>>> >>> While there is a strong group of people who have always rejected
> >>>> WiMAX as
> >>>> >>> a substitute of other Mediums of Internet Connection in Pakistan,
> >>>> 3-4
> >>>> >>> Major
> >>>> >>> Players in Pakistan Kept investing in to WiMAX arena till early
> >>>> 2008.
> >>>> >>> Rather
> >>>> >>> couple of them are still investing like Augere and Wi-Tribe. Whether
> >>>> the
> >>>> >>> operators in general got the success or not there is no denial to
> >>>> the
> >>>> >>> fact
> >>>> >>> the WiMAX networks roll outs are still happening not only in
> >>>> emerging
> >>>> >>> economies but also in stable (stable Markets).
> >>>> >>> If i remember correctly, the arguments from ANTI WiMAX School of
> >>>> thought
> >>>> >>> started from a point that some how the frequency interference is
> >>>> >>> happening
> >>>> >>> with some Satellite frequency band or some thing, then the issue of
> >>>> end
> >>>> >>> to
> >>>> >>> end business model raised very aggressively in regards of service
> >>>> >>> delivery
> >>>> >>> etc ( i know the pioneer deployment of WiMAX network initially had
> >>>> some
> >>>> >>> issues in Pakistan). After that suddenly 3 more networks emerged and
> >>>> >>> really
> >>>> >>> struggled (and still are struggling) to get their size of Pie from
> >>>> >>> existing
> >>>> >>> low penetrated broadband market. Yes, they have faced challenges and
> >>>> >>> might
> >>>> >>> still be facing them for another couple of years or so till the time
> >>>> >>> economic situation gets better however the Anti WIMAX group never
> >>>> got a
> >>>> >>> real
> >>>> >>> success in proving their claims that WiMAX is a Failure. Although
> >>>> many
> >>>> >>> times
> >>>> >>> at open forums as well as in closed meetings the operators investing
> >>>> in
> >>>> >>> WiMAX technology were being called "foolish"
> >>>> >>> I was going through the recent update that Clearwire raises an
> >>>> additional
> >>>> >>> $1.5B to continue building its nationwide WiMAX network
> >>>> >>> Sprint, Comcast, Time Warner Cable, and Bright House Networks (to
> >>>> name a
> >>>> >>> few) continue to bet big on Clearwire’s WiMAX nationwide wireless
> >>>> >>> network.
> >>>> >>> The foursome have just pumped an additional $1.494 billion into
> >>>> >>> Clearwire’s
> >>>> >>> coffer, with another $50 million coming from Intel and $20 million
> >>>> from
> >>>> >>> Eagle River Holdings. CHA-CHING.
> >>>> >>> More specifically, Sprint, which owns 51 percent of Clearwire,
> >>>> invested
> >>>> >>> $1.176 billion, Comcast Corp. put in $196 million, Time Warner Cable
> >>>> Inc.
> >>>> >>> dropped another $103 million, and Bright House Networks contributed
> >>>> a
> >>>> >>> cool
> >>>> >>> $19 million.
People try to compare WiMAX with GSM/3G, so they call it a failure, you
can't compare WiMAX with these technologies, each of these
technologies(WiMAX/GSM/3G) are meant to be used for different purposes in
different circumstances. Regarding LTE, World is endorsing LTE as a future
4G technology but WiMAX and LTE have 70% similarities and WiMAX is already
in market and getting matured with time, LTE on other hand is still in its
preliminary stage so WiMAX is actually ahead of LTE. Having said that, I
still think that LTE will be used in a different prospective than WiMAX,
altough both have similarities.
On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 7:40 PM, Babar <babar.bha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Haris and others,
> Just a note about Sprint's rollout of WiMAX in US. You have to keep in
> mind that Sprint is in trouble, bleeding money and losing subscribers.
> That colors the success or failure of the launch. Here in Dallas,
> Sprint is launching a campaign touting their products but with Verizon
> and AT&T in strong position, they dont stand much of a chance. So it
> has little to do with technology, more with who is behind it. Just a
> point of view.
> Babar
> On Nov 13, 6:36 am, Saqib Ilyas <msa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Yes, frequency and location together do make a difference. Free spectrum
> > based deployments of radio links, for instance, may still be feasible at
> > some locations, whereas, due to excessive users at other locations, the
> > quality/throughput may not be good.
> > On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 9:38 AM, Fawad Niazi <niazi.fa...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > Is there any linkage of frequency to success? 3.5GHz in Pakistan...Is
> it
> > > same everywhere?
> > > I have no idea about the service quality as even in Rawalpindi, WiTribe
> > > coverage is not available at my home:(
> > > On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 11:30 PM, Shahzad Alam <shahz...@gmail.com
> >wrote:
> > >> Guys,
> > >> Love to comments on this thread but have limited time right now due to
> > >> travel schedule. Will respond in detail. But just as an example please
> find
> > >> below a successfull story in another developed
> market.......technology,
> > >> planning, reachability, cost effectiveness and successful business
> plan
> > >> strongly depends on APPLICATIONS. Need to see that what value WiMAX
> and its
> > >> applications can add in masses?
> > >> Russian operator Yota<
> http://www.lightreading.com/complink_redirect.asp?vl_id=12019> believes
> > >> it has cracked the code for turning a quick buck from WiMax services.
> The
> > >> company announced today that it has reached "operational breakeven"
> only
> > >> five months after it launched commercial services in Moscow and St.
> > >> Petersburg. (See Yota Reaches Breakeven<
> http://www.unstrung.com/document.asp?doc_id=184298>
> > >> .)
> > >> "Our business experience may be used as a reference point for other
> mobile
> > >> WiMax operators. It demonstrates that 4G broadband services business
> can be
> > >> quite profitable," states the company's general director Denis
> Sverdlov in
> > >> today's press release.
> > >> But while there's no doubt the Yota team has made a number of critical
> > >> decisions that have worked in its favor, it's questionable whether
> many
> > >> other WiMax startups will boast the same level of financial backing,
> operate
> > >> in a similar competitive environment, and have the *cojones* to match
> > >> Yota's decisions on vendor partners, backhaul investments, and
> subscriber
> > >> growth strateg
> > >> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 10:57 PM, liveunplug...@hotmail.com <
> > >> bmugh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>> *1. If Clearwire is spending so much, then also look at size of the
> > >>> country + population + reach they are planning to target. **
> > >>> 2. They're spending so much because it works better in developed
> > >>> countries than the developing nations.
> > >>> 3. The technology is produced to provide and easy internet solution
> to an
> > >>> underdeveloped consumer but who said that it works well there?
> > >>> 4. It obviously works better in US etc where there are no sight and
> loss
> > >>> issues.
> > >>> Thanks.
> > >>> *
> > >>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 9:01 PM, Haris Shamsi <
> haris.sha...@gmail.com>wrote:
> > >>>> So Rizwan, why do you think clear wire raised so much money in a
> > >>>> "developed" country to further rollout wimax ?
> > >>>> On 11/12/09, Rizwan Sarwar <rsar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>> > Correct Saqib, WiMax is not going to work in developed countries
> > >>>> because the
> > >>>> > alternatives infrastructures are well established. Wired being the
> > >>>> dominant
> > >>>> > form and wireless (3G, WiFi) being the 2nd best option available.
> It
> > >>>> makes
> > >>>> > sense for mobile providers too, they already have infrastructure
> in
> > >>>> place to
> > >>>> > add 3G to their offerings. Why invest in a technology that will
> > >>>> require
> > >>>> > substantial capital to deploy and the return is purely not going
> to
> > >>>> come
> > >>>> > easy since breaking into rival market is nearly impossible.
> > >>>> > For Pakistan things are much simpler, Wired infrastructure is
> shit,
> > >>>> and
> > >>>> > wireless is non-existant, so it is the perfect place to deploy
> such
> > >>>> > technology. However doing half hearted attempts is exactly the
> sort of
> > >>>> thing
> > >>>> > that providers want to and should avoid. Otherwise over time the
> > >>>> wired/3G
> > >>>> > will catch up and WiMax will have no where to go. The technology
> > >>>> itself is
> > >>>> > not bad at all, signal penetration problems exist with 3G too, the
> > >>>> providers
> > >>>> > have got round that by increasing the density of Masts and Access
> > >>>> points in
> > >>>> > congested areas. Last time when I visited Pakistan, Wateen were
> > >>>> touting
> > >>>> > WiMax availability, and all they had were one mast per city. I
> don't
> > >>>> know
> > >>>> > how have things improved now, but IMO if a WiMax provider wants to
> > >>>> gain
> > >>>> > upper hand in the market then they need to get the infrastructure
> > >>>> problems
> > >>>> > solved and get on top of things. Otherwise it will be another lost
> > >>>> cause.
> > >>>> > /Rizwan
> > >>>> > On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Saqib Ilyas <msa...@gmail.com>
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>> >> Haris
> > >>>> >> My knowledge base suggests that the frequency is such that the
> signal
> > >>>> >> penetration through walls is poor. Hence if your CPE is near a
> > >>>> window,
> > >>>> >> your
> > >>>> >> experience is good, otherwise it is poor. Unless of course you
> get a
> > >>>> roof
> > >>>> >> mount antenna which is a few extra bucks.
> > >>>> >> In a country like Pakistan where landline quality is still bad
> even
> > >>>> for
> > >>>> >> many subscribers in major cities, WiMax does come as a blessing.
> In
> > >>>> more
> > >>>> >> developed countries, some businesses do use wireless for backup,
> with
> > >>>> >> wireline (optical etc) for primary connectivity.
> > >>>> >> My two cents.
> > >>>> >> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Haris Shamsi
> > >>>> >> <haris.sha...@gmail.com>wrote:
> > >>>> >>> While there is a strong group of people who have always rejected
> > >>>> WiMAX as
> > >>>> >>> a substitute of other Mediums of Internet Connection in
> Pakistan,
> > >>>> 3-4
> > >>>> >>> Major
> > >>>> >>> Players in Pakistan Kept investing in to WiMAX arena till early
> > >>>> 2008.
> > >>>> >>> Rather
> > >>>> >>> couple of them are still investing like Augere and Wi-Tribe.
> Whether
> > >>>> the
> > >>>> >>> operators in general got the success or not there is no denial
> to
> > >>>> the
> > >>>> >>> fact
> > >>>> >>> the WiMAX networks roll outs are still happening not only in
> > >>>> emerging
> > >>>> >>> economies but also in stable (stable Markets).
> > >>>> >>> If i remember correctly, the arguments from ANTI WiMAX School of
> > >>>> thought
> > >>>> >>> started from a point that some how the frequency interference is
> > >>>> >>> happening
> > >>>> >>> with some Satellite frequency band or some thing, then the issue
> of
> > >>>> end
> > >>>> >>> to
> > >>>> >>> end business model raised very aggressively in regards of
> service
> > >>>> >>> delivery
> > >>>> >>> etc ( i know the pioneer deployment of WiMAX network initially
> had
> > >>>> some
> > >>>> >>> issues in Pakistan). After that suddenly 3 more networks emerged
> and
> > >>>> >>> really
> > >>>> >>> struggled (and still are struggling) to get their size of Pie
> from
> > >>>> >>> existing
> > >>>> >>> low penetrated broadband market. Yes, they have faced challenges
> and
> > >>>> >>> might
> > >>>> >>> still be facing them for another couple of years or so till the
> time
> > >>>> >>> economic situation gets better however the Anti WIMAX group
> never
> > >>>> got a
From operator point of view, WiMaX is a gap filler till they have the
LTE in place. The commercial deployment will start next year fro, LTE
and you are right that mass deployment for LTE will be by 2012 at
least thats what the analyst suggest. This is mainly for the Radio
side while the core changes by themselves can take upto one year to be
deployment. Mainly in SGSN and Node B area.
I think WiMax as a technology has its place in the market. I am
working with an operator here in UAE who have used WiMax (mobile) to
support WiFi broadband access to passenger in the Metro trains with 3G
as backup for backhauling. Just one example top of my head other
enterprise type solution might be in place that I don't know off
however for end user we have seen numerous complains on different
forums for Wateen WiMax. Motorola has learned a lot from Wateen
experience. Their WiMax product maturity was fast tracked with such a
huge deployment however we can only draw conclusion once we see LTE in
action along side WiMax. Who knows what kind of issues we might run
into with LTE?
/Majid
On Nov 13, 6:40 pm, Babar <babar.bha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just a note about Sprint's rollout of WiMAX in US. You have to keep in
> mind that Sprint is in trouble, bleeding money and losing subscribers.
> That colors the success or failure of the launch. Here in Dallas,
> Sprint is launching a campaign touting their products but with Verizon
> and AT&T in strong position, they dont stand much of a chance. So it
> has little to do with technology, more with who is behind it. Just a
> point of view.
> Babar
> On Nov 13, 6:36 am, Saqib Ilyas <msa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Yes, frequency and location together do make a difference. Free spectrum
> > based deployments of radio links, for instance, may still be feasible at
> > some locations, whereas, due to excessive users at other locations, the
> > quality/throughput may not be good.
> > On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 9:38 AM, Fawad Niazi <niazi.fa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Is there any linkage of frequency to success? 3.5GHz in Pakistan...Is it
> > > same everywhere?
> > > I have no idea about the service quality as even in Rawalpindi, WiTribe
> > > coverage is not available at my home:(
> > > On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 11:30 PM, Shahzad Alam <shahz...@gmail.com>wrote:
> > >> Guys,
> > >> Love to comments on this thread but have limited time right now due to
> > >> travel schedule. Will respond in detail. But just as an example please find
> > >> below a successfull story in another developed market.......technology,
> > >> planning, reachability, cost effectiveness and successful business plan
> > >> strongly depends on APPLICATIONS. Need to see that what value WiMAX and its
> > >> applications can add in masses?
> > >> Russian operator Yota<http://www.lightreading.com/complink_redirect.asp?vl_id=12019> believes
> > >> it has cracked the code for turning a quick buck from WiMax services. The
> > >> company announced today that it has reached "operational breakeven" only
> > >> five months after it launched commercial services in Moscow and St.
> > >> Petersburg. (See Yota Reaches Breakeven<http://www.unstrung.com/document.asp?doc_id=184298>
> > >> .)
> > >> "Our business experience may be used as a reference point for other mobile
> > >> WiMax operators. It demonstrates that 4G broadband services business can be
> > >> quite profitable," states the company's general director Denis Sverdlov in
> > >> today's press release.
> > >> But while there's no doubt the Yota team has made a number of critical
> > >> decisions that have worked in its favor, it's questionable whether many
> > >> other WiMax startups will boast the same level of financial backing, operate
> > >> in a similar competitive environment, and have the *cojones* to match
> > >> Yota's decisions on vendor partners, backhaul investments, and subscriber
> > >> growth strateg
> > >> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 10:57 PM, liveunplug...@hotmail.com <
> > >> bmugh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>> *1. If Clearwire is spending so much, then also look at size of the
> > >>> country + population + reach they are planning to target. **
> > >>> 2. They're spending so much because it works better in developed
> > >>> countries than the developing nations.
> > >>> 3. The technology is produced to provide and easy internet solution to an
> > >>> underdeveloped consumer but who said that it works well there?
> > >>> 4. It obviously works better in US etc where there are no sight and loss
> > >>> issues.
> > >>> Thanks.
> > >>> *
> > >>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 9:01 PM, Haris Shamsi <haris.sha...@gmail.com>wrote:
> > >>>> So Rizwan, why do you think clear wire raised so much money in a
> > >>>> "developed" country to further rollout wimax ?
> > >>>> On 11/12/09, Rizwan Sarwar <rsar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>> > Correct Saqib, WiMax is not going to work in developed countries
> > >>>> because the
> > >>>> > alternatives infrastructures are well established. Wired being the
> > >>>> dominant
> > >>>> > form and wireless (3G, WiFi) being the 2nd best option available. It
> > >>>> makes
> > >>>> > sense for mobile providers too, they already have infrastructure in
> > >>>> place to
> > >>>> > add 3G to their offerings. Why invest in a technology that will
> > >>>> require
> > >>>> > substantial capital to deploy and the return is purely not going to
> > >>>> come
> > >>>> > easy since breaking into rival market is nearly impossible.
> > >>>> > For Pakistan things are much simpler, Wired infrastructure is shit,
> > >>>> and
> > >>>> > wireless is non-existant, so it is the perfect place to deploy such
> > >>>> > technology. However doing half hearted attempts is exactly the sort of
> > >>>> thing
> > >>>> > that providers want to and should avoid. Otherwise over time the
> > >>>> wired/3G
> > >>>> > will catch up and WiMax will have no where to go. The technology
> > >>>> itself is
> > >>>> > not bad at all, signal penetration problems exist with 3G too, the
> > >>>> providers
> > >>>> > have got round that by increasing the density of Masts and Access
> > >>>> points in
> > >>>> > congested areas. Last time when I visited Pakistan, Wateen were
> > >>>> touting
> > >>>> > WiMax availability, and all they had were one mast per city. I don't
> > >>>> know
> > >>>> > how have things improved now, but IMO if a WiMax provider wants to
> > >>>> gain
> > >>>> > upper hand in the market then they need to get the infrastructure
> > >>>> problems
> > >>>> > solved and get on top of things. Otherwise it will be another lost
> > >>>> cause.
> > >>>> > /Rizwan
> > >>>> > On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Saqib Ilyas <msa...@gmail.com>
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>> >> Haris
> > >>>> >> My knowledge base suggests that the frequency is such that the signal
> > >>>> >> penetration through walls is poor. Hence if your CPE is near a
> > >>>> window,
> > >>>> >> your
> > >>>> >> experience is good, otherwise it is poor. Unless of course you get a
> > >>>> roof
> > >>>> >> mount antenna which is a few extra bucks.
> > >>>> >> In a country like Pakistan where landline quality is still bad even
> > >>>> for
> > >>>> >> many subscribers in major cities, WiMax does come as a blessing. In
> > >>>> more
> > >>>> >> developed countries, some businesses do use wireless for backup, with
> > >>>> >> wireline (optical etc) for primary connectivity.
> > >>>> >> My two cents.
> > >>>> >> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Haris Shamsi
> > >>>> >> <haris.sha...@gmail.com>wrote:
> > >>>> >>> While there is a strong group of people who have always rejected
> > >>>> WiMAX as
> > >>>> >>> a substitute of other Mediums of Internet Connection in Pakistan,
> > >>>> 3-4
> > >>>> >>> Major
> > >>>> >>> Players in Pakistan Kept investing in to WiMAX arena till early
> > >>>> 2008.
> > >>>> >>> Rather
> > >>>> >>> couple of them are still investing like Augere and Wi-Tribe. Whether
> > >>>> the
> > >>>> >>> operators in general got the success or not there is no denial to
> > >>>> the
> > >>>> >>> fact
> > >>>> >>> the WiMAX networks roll outs are still happening not only in
> > >>>> emerging
> > >>>> >>> economies but also in stable (stable Markets).
> > >>>> >>> If i remember correctly, the arguments from ANTI WiMAX School of
> > >>>> thought
> > >>>> >>> started from a point that some how the frequency interference is
> > >>>> >>> happening
> > >>>> >>> with some Satellite frequency band or some thing, then the issue of
> > >>>> end
> > >>>> >>> to
> > >>>> >>> end business model raised very aggressively in regards of service
> > >>>> >>> delivery
> > >>>> >>> etc ( i know the pioneer deployment of WiMAX network initially had
> > >>>> some
> > >>>> >>> issues in Pakistan). After that suddenly 3 more networks emerged and
> > >>>> >>> really
> > >>>> >>> struggled (and still are struggling) to get their size of Pie from
> > >>>> >>> existing
*Don’t miss this insightful and revealing Keynote Panel Discussion at WiMAX
Forum Americas Congress on 2nd December, which will provide a rare
opportunity to hear Clearwire and Verizon go head to head on the WiMAX/LTE
debate! *
*6**0 Speakers confirmed including 30 US Carriers, 14 Analysts, 3 Consumer
Electronics and 5 Government/Regulators*
*10.05 PANEL DISCUSSION How Will WiMAX Compete And Co-Exist With LTE? Will
There Be Dual Mode Devices? Is WiMAX/LTE The New CDMA/WiMAX? *
- *Is LTE really the biggest threat to WiMAX today? ***
- *Establishing the future market boundaries for WiMAX and LTE* **
- *An economic analysis of like for like WiMAX vs. LTE deployment* **
- *How is WiMAX going to achieve volume and economies of scale?*
*Barry West, President International, Clearwire (USA)***
**
*
**Chris Neisinger, Executive Director of Networks, Verizon Wireless (**USA**
**)*
On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 7:40 PM, Babar <babar.bha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Haris and others,
> Just a note about Sprint's rollout of WiMAX in US. You have to keep in
> mind that Sprint is in trouble, bleeding money and losing subscribers.
> That colors the success or failure of the launch. Here in Dallas,
> Sprint is launching a campaign touting their products but with Verizon
> and AT&T in strong position, they dont stand much of a chance. So it
> has little to do with technology, more with who is behind it. Just a
> point of view.
> Babar
> On Nov 13, 6:36 am, Saqib Ilyas <msa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Yes, frequency and location together do make a difference. Free spectrum
> > based deployments of radio links, for instance, may still be feasible at
> > some locations, whereas, due to excessive users at other locations, the
> > quality/throughput may not be good.
> > On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 9:38 AM, Fawad Niazi <niazi.fa...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > Is there any linkage of frequency to success? 3.5GHz in Pakistan...Is
> it
> > > same everywhere?
> > > I have no idea about the service quality as even in Rawalpindi, WiTribe
> > > coverage is not available at my home:(
> > > On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 11:30 PM, Shahzad Alam <shahz...@gmail.com
> >wrote:
> > >> Guys,
> > >> Love to comments on this thread but have limited time right now due to
> > >> travel schedule. Will respond in detail. But just as an example please
> find
> > >> below a successfull story in another developed
> market.......technology,
> > >> planning, reachability, cost effectiveness and successful business
> plan
> > >> strongly depends on APPLICATIONS. Need to see that what value WiMAX
> and its
> > >> applications can add in masses?
> > >> Russian operator Yota<
> http://www.lightreading.com/complink_redirect.asp?vl_id=12019> believes
> > >> it has cracked the code for turning a quick buck from WiMax services.
> The
> > >> company announced today that it has reached "operational breakeven"
> only
> > >> five months after it launched commercial services in Moscow and St.
> > >> Petersburg. (See Yota Reaches Breakeven<
> http://www.unstrung.com/document.asp?doc_id=184298>
> > >> .)
> > >> "Our business experience may be used as a reference point for other
> mobile
> > >> WiMax operators. It demonstrates that 4G broadband services business
> can be
> > >> quite profitable," states the company's general director Denis
> Sverdlov in
> > >> today's press release.
> > >> But while there's no doubt the Yota team has made a number of critical
> > >> decisions that have worked in its favor, it's questionable whether
> many
> > >> other WiMax startups will boast the same level of financial backing,
> operate
> > >> in a similar competitive environment, and have the *cojones* to match
> > >> Yota's decisions on vendor partners, backhaul investments, and
> subscriber
> > >> growth strateg
> > >> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 10:57 PM, liveunplug...@hotmail.com <
> > >> bmugh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>> *1. If Clearwire is spending so much, then also look at size of the
> > >>> country + population + reach they are planning to target. **
> > >>> 2. They're spending so much because it works better in developed
> > >>> countries than the developing nations.
> > >>> 3. The technology is produced to provide and easy internet solution
> to an
> > >>> underdeveloped consumer but who said that it works well there?
> > >>> 4. It obviously works better in US etc where there are no sight and
> loss
> > >>> issues.
> > >>> Thanks.
> > >>> *
> > >>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 9:01 PM, Haris Shamsi <
> haris.sha...@gmail.com>wrote:
> > >>>> So Rizwan, why do you think clear wire raised so much money in a
> > >>>> "developed" country to further rollout wimax ?
> > >>>> On 11/12/09, Rizwan Sarwar <rsar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>> > Correct Saqib, WiMax is not going to work in developed countries
> > >>>> because the
> > >>>> > alternatives infrastructures are well established. Wired being the
> > >>>> dominant
> > >>>> > form and wireless (3G, WiFi) being the 2nd best option available.
> It
> > >>>> makes
> > >>>> > sense for mobile providers too, they already have infrastructure
> in
> > >>>> place to
> > >>>> > add 3G to their offerings. Why invest in a technology that will
> > >>>> require
> > >>>> > substantial capital to deploy and the return is purely not going
> to
> > >>>> come
> > >>>> > easy since breaking into rival market is nearly impossible.
> > >>>> > For Pakistan things are much simpler, Wired infrastructure is
> shit,
> > >>>> and
> > >>>> > wireless is non-existant, so it is the perfect place to deploy
> such
> > >>>> > technology. However doing half hearted attempts is exactly the
> sort of
> > >>>> thing
> > >>>> > that providers want to and should avoid. Otherwise over time the
> > >>>> wired/3G
> > >>>> > will catch up and WiMax will have no where to go. The technology
> > >>>> itself is
> > >>>> > not bad at all, signal penetration problems exist with 3G too, the
> > >>>> providers
> > >>>> > have got round that by increasing the density of Masts and Access
> > >>>> points in
> > >>>> > congested areas. Last time when I visited Pakistan, Wateen were
> > >>>> touting
> > >>>> > WiMax availability, and all they had were one mast per city. I
> don't
> > >>>> know
> > >>>> > how have things improved now, but IMO if a WiMax provider wants to
> > >>>> gain
> > >>>> > upper hand in the market then they need to get the infrastructure
> > >>>> problems
> > >>>> > solved and get on top of things. Otherwise it will be another lost
> > >>>> cause.
> > >>>> > /Rizwan
> > >>>> > On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Saqib Ilyas <msa...@gmail.com>
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>> >> Haris
> > >>>> >> My knowledge base suggests that the frequency is such that the
> signal
> > >>>> >> penetration through walls is poor. Hence if your CPE is near a
> > >>>> window,
> > >>>> >> your
> > >>>> >> experience is good, otherwise it is poor. Unless of course you
> get a
> > >>>> roof
> > >>>> >> mount antenna which is a few extra bucks.
> > >>>> >> In a country like Pakistan where landline quality is still bad
> even
> > >>>> for
> > >>>> >> many subscribers in major cities, WiMax does come as a blessing.
> In
> > >>>> more
> > >>>> >> developed countries, some businesses do use wireless for backup,
> with
> > >>>> >> wireline (optical etc) for primary connectivity.
> > >>>> >> My two cents.
> > >>>> >> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Haris Shamsi
> > >>>> >> <haris.sha...@gmail.com>wrote:
> > >>>> >>> While there is a strong group of people who have always rejected
> > >>>> WiMAX as
> > >>>> >>> a substitute of other Mediums of Internet Connection in
> Pakistan,
> > >>>> 3-4
> > >>>> >>> Major
> > >>>> >>> Players in Pakistan Kept investing in to WiMAX arena till early
> > >>>> 2008.
> > >>>> >>> Rather
> > >>>> >>> couple of them are still investing like Augere and Wi-Tribe.
> Whether
> > >>>> the
> > >>>> >>> operators in general got the success or not there is no denial
> to
> > >>>> the
> > >>>> >>> fact
> > >>>> >>> the WiMAX networks roll outs are still happening not only in
> > >>>> emerging
> > >>>> >>> economies but also in stable (stable Markets).
> > >>>> >>> If i remember correctly, the arguments from ANTI WiMAX School of
> > >>>> thought
> > >>>> >>> started from a point that some how the frequency interference is
> > >>>> >>> happening
> > >>>> >>> with some Satellite frequency band or some thing, then the issue
> of
> > >>>> end
> > >>>> >>> to
> > >>>> >>> end business model raised very aggressively in regards of
> service
> > >>>> >>> delivery
> > >>>> >>> etc ( i know the pioneer deployment of WiMAX network initially
> had
Clearwire sets the tone for all wimax operators around the world in
terms of technology acceptance. However the adoption rates in the US
have been lukewarm so far. In my opinion its more related to the
entire wimax ecosystem, which has not been able to offer devices and
services with functionality which increases customer confidence in the
service and speeds up adoption through word of mouth. With new
licensing opening up in Asia by 2010 this is bound to change and
atleast acquisition costs are to come down and more R&D into wimax
enabled devices thrown in. Guaranteed QoS is also a question mark till
now.
Multiple factors come into play when we take a look at Pakistan as
Wimax market, the spectrum provided, Overall economic slowdown and
lack of local content on internet has not been able to pull the
masses. Yota is a very useful case study where WBA has been bundled up
with content which consumers want.
Thnx-HK
On Nov 14, 3:19 pm, Shahzad Alam <shahz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> *Don’t miss this insightful and revealing Keynote Panel Discussion at WiMAX
> Forum Americas Congress on 2nd December, which will provide a rare
> opportunity to hear Clearwire and Verizon go head to head on the WiMAX/LTE
> debate! *
> *6**0 Speakers confirmed including 30 US Carriers, 14 Analysts, 3 Consumer
> Electronics and 5 Government/Regulators*
> *10.05 PANEL DISCUSSION How Will WiMAX Compete And Co-Exist With LTE? Will
> There Be Dual Mode Devices? Is WiMAX/LTE The New CDMA/WiMAX? *
> - *Is LTE really the biggest threat to WiMAX today? ***
> - *Establishing the future market boundaries for WiMAX and LTE* **
> - *An economic analysis of like for like WiMAX vs. LTE deployment* **
> - *How is WiMAX going to achieve volume and economies of scale?*
> *Barry West, President International, Clearwire (USA)***
> **
> *
> **Chris Neisinger, Executive Director of Networks, Verizon Wireless (**USA**
> **)*
> On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 7:40 PM, Babar <babar.bha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Haris and others,
> > Just a note about Sprint's rollout of WiMAX in US. You have to keep in
> > mind that Sprint is in trouble, bleeding money and losing subscribers.
> > That colors the success or failure of the launch. Here in Dallas,
> > Sprint is launching a campaign touting their products but with Verizon
> > and AT&T in strong position, they dont stand much of a chance. So it
> > has little to do with technology, more with who is behind it. Just a
> > point of view.
> > Babar
> > On Nov 13, 6:36 am, Saqib Ilyas <msa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Yes, frequency and location together do make a difference. Free spectrum
> > > based deployments of radio links, for instance, may still be feasible at
> > > some locations, whereas, due to excessive users at other locations, the
> > > quality/throughput may not be good.
> > > On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 9:38 AM, Fawad Niazi <niazi.fa...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > Is there any linkage of frequency to success? 3.5GHz in Pakistan...Is
> > it
> > > > same everywhere?
> > > > I have no idea about the service quality as even in Rawalpindi, WiTribe
> > > > coverage is not available at my home:(
> > > > On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 11:30 PM, Shahzad Alam <shahz...@gmail.com
> > >wrote:
> > > >> Guys,
> > > >> Love to comments on this thread but have limited time right now due to
> > > >> travel schedule. Will respond in detail. But just as an example please
> > find
> > > >> below a successfull story in another developed
> > market.......technology,
> > > >> planning, reachability, cost effectiveness and successful business
> > plan
> > > >> strongly depends on APPLICATIONS. Need to see that what value WiMAX
> > and its
> > > >> applications can add in masses?
> > > >> Russian operator Yota<
> >http://www.lightreading.com/complink_redirect.asp?vl_id=12019> believes
> > > >> it has cracked the code for turning a quick buck from WiMax services.
> > The
> > > >> company announced today that it has reached "operational breakeven"
> > only
> > > >> five months after it launched commercial services in Moscow and St.
> > > >> Petersburg. (See Yota Reaches Breakeven<
> >http://www.unstrung.com/document.asp?doc_id=184298>
> > > >> .)
> > > >> "Our business experience may be used as a reference point for other
> > mobile
> > > >> WiMax operators. It demonstrates that 4G broadband services business
> > can be
> > > >> quite profitable," states the company's general director Denis
> > Sverdlov in
> > > >> today's press release.
> > > >> But while there's no doubt the Yota team has made a number of critical
> > > >> decisions that have worked in its favor, it's questionable whether
> > many
> > > >> other WiMax startups will boast the same level of financial backing,
> > operate
> > > >> in a similar competitive environment, and have the *cojones* to match
> > > >> Yota's decisions on vendor partners, backhaul investments, and
> > subscriber
> > > >> growth strateg
> > > >> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 10:57 PM, liveunplug...@hotmail.com <
> > > >> bmugh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>> *1. If Clearwire is spending so much, then also look at size of the
> > > >>> country + population + reach they are planning to target. **
> > > >>> 2. They're spending so much because it works better in developed
> > > >>> countries than the developing nations.
> > > >>> 3. The technology is produced to provide and easy internet solution
> > to an
> > > >>> underdeveloped consumer but who said that it works well there?
> > > >>> 4. It obviously works better in US etc where there are no sight and
> > loss
> > > >>> issues.
> > > >>> Thanks.
> > > >>> *
> > > >>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 9:01 PM, Haris Shamsi <
> > haris.sha...@gmail.com>wrote:
> > > >>>> So Rizwan, why do you think clear wire raised so much money in a
> > > >>>> "developed" country to further rollout wimax ?
> > > >>>> On 11/12/09, Rizwan Sarwar <rsar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>>> > Correct Saqib, WiMax is not going to work in developed countries
> > > >>>> because the
> > > >>>> > alternatives infrastructures are well established. Wired being the
> > > >>>> dominant
> > > >>>> > form and wireless (3G, WiFi) being the 2nd best option available.
> > It
> > > >>>> makes
> > > >>>> > sense for mobile providers too, they already have infrastructure
> > in
> > > >>>> place to
> > > >>>> > add 3G to their offerings. Why invest in a technology that will
> > > >>>> require
> > > >>>> > substantial capital to deploy and the return is purely not going
> > to
> > > >>>> come
> > > >>>> > easy since breaking into rival market is nearly impossible.
> > > >>>> > For Pakistan things are much simpler, Wired infrastructure is
> > shit,
> > > >>>> and
> > > >>>> > wireless is non-existant, so it is the perfect place to deploy
> > such
> > > >>>> > technology. However doing half hearted attempts is exactly the
> > sort of
> > > >>>> thing
> > > >>>> > that providers want to and should avoid. Otherwise over time the
> > > >>>> wired/3G
> > > >>>> > will catch up and WiMax will have no where to go. The technology
> > > >>>> itself is
> > > >>>> > not bad at all, signal penetration problems exist with 3G too, the
> > > >>>> providers
> > > >>>> > have got round that by increasing the density of Masts and Access
> > > >>>> points in
> > > >>>> > congested areas. Last time when I visited Pakistan, Wateen were
> > > >>>> touting
> > > >>>> > WiMax availability, and all they had were one mast per city. I
> > don't
> > > >>>> know
> > > >>>> > how have things improved now, but IMO if a WiMax provider wants to
> > > >>>> gain
> > > >>>> > upper hand in the market then they need to get the infrastructure
> > > >>>> problems
> > > >>>> > solved and get on top of things. Otherwise it will be another lost
> > > >>>> cause.
> > > >>>> > /Rizwan
> > > >>>> > On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Saqib Ilyas <msa...@gmail.com>
> > > >>>> wrote:
> > > >>>> >> Haris
> > > >>>> >> My knowledge base suggests that the frequency is such that the
> > signal
> > > >>>> >> penetration through walls is poor. Hence if your CPE is near a
> > > >>>> window,
> > > >>>> >> your
> > > >>>> >> experience is good, otherwise it is poor. Unless of course you
> > get a
> > > >>>> roof
> > > >>>> >> mount antenna which is a few extra bucks.
> > > >>>> >> In a country like Pakistan where landline quality is still bad
> > even
> > > >>>> for
> > > >>>> >> many subscribers in major cities, WiMax does come as a blessing.
> > In
> > > >>>> more
> > > >>>> >> developed countries, some businesses do use wireless for backup,
> > with
> > > >>>> >> wireline (optical etc) for primary connectivity.
> > > >>>> >> My two cents.
It beats me what does content and applications have to do with wimax
adaptation figures? The word 'local-content' is now being abused too
frequently.
If by local content you mean:
1. Entertainment - It's all available on YouTube, Portals (Jokes, Shairi,
Ghazals, Folk Songs in multiple regional languages) you name it.
2. News and Current Affairs - All available on the Internet
3. Searching Items - All kinds of Urdu Punjabi search engines available with
respective search items in local languages.
How much local are we exactly planning to get here?
Christina Aguilera can't sing in Urdu. Believe me. Now that we establish the
fact that she can't so now let's move to the Application part. What
Applications? Can you name a few that will help sell Wimax?
On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 11:32 AM, HK <husnain.k...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Clearwire sets the tone for all wimax operators around the world in
> terms of technology acceptance. However the adoption rates in the US
> have been lukewarm so far. In my opinion its more related to the
> entire wimax ecosystem, which has not been able to offer devices and
> services with functionality which increases customer confidence in the
> service and speeds up adoption through word of mouth. With new
> licensing opening up in Asia by 2010 this is bound to change and
> atleast acquisition costs are to come down and more R&D into wimax
> enabled devices thrown in. Guaranteed QoS is also a question mark till
> now.
> Multiple factors come into play when we take a look at Pakistan as
> Wimax market, the spectrum provided, Overall economic slowdown and
> lack of local content on internet has not been able to pull the
> masses. Yota is a very useful case study where WBA has been bundled up
> with content which consumers want.
> Thnx-HK
> On Nov 14, 3:19 pm, Shahzad Alam <shahz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > *Don’t miss this insightful and revealing Keynote Panel Discussion at
> WiMAX
> > Forum Americas Congress on 2nd December, which will provide a rare
> > opportunity to hear Clearwire and Verizon go head to head on the
> WiMAX/LTE
> > debate! *
> > *6**0 Speakers confirmed including 30 US Carriers, 14 Analysts, 3
> Consumer
> > Electronics and 5 Government/Regulators*
> > *10.05 PANEL DISCUSSION How Will WiMAX Compete And Co-Exist With LTE?
> Will
> > There Be Dual Mode Devices? Is WiMAX/LTE The New CDMA/WiMAX? *
> > - *Is LTE really the biggest threat to WiMAX today? ***
> > - *Establishing the future market boundaries for WiMAX and LTE* **
> > - *An economic analysis of like for like WiMAX vs. LTE deployment* **
> > - *How is WiMAX going to achieve volume and economies of scale?*
> > *Barry West, President International, Clearwire (USA)***
> > **
> > *
> > **Chris Neisinger, Executive Director of Networks, Verizon Wireless
> (**USA**
> > **)*
> > On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 7:40 PM, Babar <babar.bha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Haris and others,
> > > Just a note about Sprint's rollout of WiMAX in US. You have to keep in
> > > mind that Sprint is in trouble, bleeding money and losing subscribers.
> > > That colors the success or failure of the launch. Here in Dallas,
> > > Sprint is launching a campaign touting their products but with Verizon
> > > and AT&T in strong position, they dont stand much of a chance. So it
> > > has little to do with technology, more with who is behind it. Just a
> > > point of view.
> > > Babar
> > > On Nov 13, 6:36 am, Saqib Ilyas <msa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Yes, frequency and location together do make a difference. Free
> spectrum
> > > > based deployments of radio links, for instance, may still be feasible
> at
> > > > some locations, whereas, due to excessive users at other locations,
> the
> > > > quality/throughput may not be good.
> > > > On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 9:38 AM, Fawad Niazi <niazi.fa...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > Is there any linkage of frequency to success? 3.5GHz in
> Pakistan...Is
> > > it
> > > > > same everywhere?
> > > > > I have no idea about the service quality as even in Rawalpindi,
> WiTribe
> > > > > coverage is not available at my home:(
> > > > > On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 11:30 PM, Shahzad Alam <
> shahz...@gmail.com
> > > >wrote:
> > > > >> Guys,
> > > > >> Love to comments on this thread but have limited time right now
> due to
> > > > >> travel schedule. Will respond in detail. But just as an example
> please
> > > find
> > > > >> below a successfull story in another developed
> > > market.......technology,
> > > > >> planning, reachability, cost effectiveness and successful business
> > > plan
> > > > >> strongly depends on APPLICATIONS. Need to see that what value
> WiMAX
> > > and its
> > > > >> applications can add in masses?
> > > > >> Russian operator Yota<
> > >http://www.lightreading.com/complink_redirect.asp?vl_id=12019> believes
> > > > >> it has cracked the code for turning a quick buck from WiMax
> services.
> > > The
> > > > >> company announced today that it has reached "operational
> breakeven"
> > > only
> > > > >> five months after it launched commercial services in Moscow and
> St.
> > > > >> Petersburg. (See Yota Reaches Breakeven<
> > >http://www.unstrung.com/document.asp?doc_id=184298>
> > > > >> .)
> > > > >> "Our business experience may be used as a reference point for
> other
> > > mobile
> > > > >> WiMax operators. It demonstrates that 4G broadband services
> business
> > > can be
> > > > >> quite profitable," states the company's general director Denis
> > > Sverdlov in
> > > > >> today's press release.
> > > > >> But while there's no doubt the Yota team has made a number of
> critical
> > > > >> decisions that have worked in its favor, it's questionable whether
> > > many
> > > > >> other WiMax startups will boast the same level of financial
> backing,
> > > operate
> > > > >> in a similar competitive environment, and have the *cojones* to
> match
> > > > >> Yota's decisions on vendor partners, backhaul investments, and
> > > subscriber
> > > > >> growth strateg
> > > > >> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 10:57 PM, liveunplug...@hotmail.com <
> > > > >> bmugh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >>> *1. If Clearwire is spending so much, then also look at size of
> the
> > > > >>> country + population + reach they are planning to target. **
> > > > >>> 2. They're spending so much because it works better in developed
> > > > >>> countries than the developing nations.
> > > > >>> 3. The technology is produced to provide and easy internet
> solution
> > > to an
> > > > >>> underdeveloped consumer but who said that it works well there?
> > > > >>> 4. It obviously works better in US etc where there are no sight
> and
> > > loss
> > > > >>> issues.
> > > > >>> Thanks.
> > > > >>> *
> > > > >>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 9:01 PM, Haris Shamsi <
> > > haris.sha...@gmail.com>wrote:
> > > > >>>> So Rizwan, why do you think clear wire raised so much money in a
> > > > >>>> "developed" country to further rollout wimax ?
> > > > >>>> On 11/12/09, Rizwan Sarwar <rsar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >>>> > Correct Saqib, WiMax is not going to work in developed
> countries
> > > > >>>> because the
> > > > >>>> > alternatives infrastructures are well established. Wired being
> the
> > > > >>>> dominant
> > > > >>>> > form and wireless (3G, WiFi) being the 2nd best option
> available.
> > > It
> > > > >>>> makes
> > > > >>>> > sense for mobile providers too, they already have
> infrastructure
> > > in
> > > > >>>> place to
> > > > >>>> > add 3G to their offerings. Why invest in a technology that
> will
> > > > >>>> require
> > > > >>>> > substantial capital to deploy and the return is purely not
> going
> > > to
> > > > >>>> come
> > > > >>>> > easy since breaking into rival market is nearly impossible.
> > > > >>>> > For Pakistan things are much simpler, Wired infrastructure is
> > > shit,
> > > > >>>> and
> > > > >>>> > wireless is non-existant, so it is the perfect place to deploy
> > > such
> > > > >>>> > technology. However doing half hearted attempts is exactly the
> > > sort of
> > > > >>>> thing
> > > > >>>> > that providers want to and should avoid. Otherwise over time
> the
> > > > >>>> wired/3G
> > > > >>>> > will catch up and WiMax will have no where to go. The
> technology
> > > > >>>> itself is
> > > > >>>> > not bad at all, signal penetration problems exist with 3G too,
> the
> > > > >>>> providers
> > > > >>>> > have got round that by increasing the density of Masts and
> Access
> > > > >>>> points in
> > > > >>>> > congested areas. Last time when I visited
I can do all of the above using GPRS, so why would i upgrade to WIMAX?
In my opinion, the only thing missing in our appetite for data is LIVE
streaming of local and international events specially sporting events.
Latest device which moves us forward in this regard is the WDTV Live from
western digital which has a LAN connection for live streaming directly to
our TV screens
Where is HD broadcast in our country??
If Youtube, portals, blogging, news and regular internet surfing is our
criteria, than i find it useless to keep on upgrading our networks as almost
all the existing technologies cater to requirements
-- Afzal Anwar
On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 11:16 PM, liveunplug...@hotmail.com <
bmugh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It beats me what does content and applications have to do with wimax
> adaptation figures? The word 'local-content' is now being abused too
> frequently.
> If by local content you mean:
> 1. Entertainment - It's all available on YouTube, Portals (Jokes, Shairi,
> Ghazals, Folk Songs in multiple regional languages) you name it.
> 2. News and Current Affairs - All available on the Internet
> 3. Searching Items - All kinds of Urdu Punjabi search engines available
> with respective search items in local languages.
> How much local are we exactly planning to get here?
> Christina Aguilera can't sing in Urdu. Believe me. Now that we establish
> the fact that she can't so now let's move to the Application part. What
> Applications? Can you name a few that will help sell Wimax?
> B
> On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 11:32 AM, HK <husnain.k...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Clearwire sets the tone for all wimax operators around the world in
>> terms of technology acceptance. However the adoption rates in the US
>> have been lukewarm so far. In my opinion its more related to the
>> entire wimax ecosystem, which has not been able to offer devices and
>> services with functionality which increases customer confidence in the
>> service and speeds up adoption through word of mouth. With new
>> licensing opening up in Asia by 2010 this is bound to change and
>> atleast acquisition costs are to come down and more R&D into wimax
>> enabled devices thrown in. Guaranteed QoS is also a question mark till
>> now.
>> Multiple factors come into play when we take a look at Pakistan as
>> Wimax market, the spectrum provided, Overall economic slowdown and
>> lack of local content on internet has not been able to pull the
>> masses. Yota is a very useful case study where WBA has been bundled up
>> with content which consumers want.
>> Thnx-HK
>> On Nov 14, 3:19 pm, Shahzad Alam <shahz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > *Don’t miss this insightful and revealing Keynote Panel Discussion at
>> WiMAX
>> > Forum Americas Congress on 2nd December, which will provide a rare
>> > opportunity to hear Clearwire and Verizon go head to head on the
>> WiMAX/LTE
>> > debate! *
>> > *6**0 Speakers confirmed including 30 US Carriers, 14 Analysts, 3
>> Consumer
>> > Electronics and 5 Government/Regulators*
>> > *10.05 PANEL DISCUSSION How Will WiMAX Compete And Co-Exist With LTE?
>> Will
>> > There Be Dual Mode Devices? Is WiMAX/LTE The New CDMA/WiMAX? *
>> > - *Is LTE really the biggest threat to WiMAX today? ***
>> > - *Establishing the future market boundaries for WiMAX and LTE* **
>> > - *An economic analysis of like for like WiMAX vs. LTE deployment* **
>> > - *How is WiMAX going to achieve volume and economies of scale?*
>> > *Barry West, President International, Clearwire (USA)***
>> > **
>> > *
>> > **Chris Neisinger, Executive Director of Networks, Verizon Wireless
>> (**USA**
>> > **)*
>> > On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 7:40 PM, Babar <babar.bha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > Haris and others,
>> > > Just a note about Sprint's rollout of WiMAX in US. You have to keep in
>> > > mind that Sprint is in trouble, bleeding money and losing subscribers.
>> > > That colors the success or failure of the launch. Here in Dallas,
>> > > Sprint is launching a campaign touting their products but with Verizon
>> > > and AT&T in strong position, they dont stand much of a chance. So it
>> > > has little to do with technology, more with who is behind it. Just a
>> > > point of view.
>> > > Babar
>> > > On Nov 13, 6:36 am, Saqib Ilyas <msa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > Yes, frequency and location together do make a difference. Free
>> spectrum
>> > > > based deployments of radio links, for instance, may still be
>> feasible at
>> > > > some locations, whereas, due to excessive users at other locations,
>> the
>> > > > quality/throughput may not be good.
>> > > > On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 9:38 AM, Fawad Niazi <niazi.fa...@gmail.com
>> > > wrote:
>> > > > > Is there any linkage of frequency to success? 3.5GHz in
>> Pakistan...Is
>> > > it
>> > > > > same everywhere?
>> > > > > I have no idea about the service quality as even in Rawalpindi,
>> WiTribe
>> > > > > coverage is not available at my home:(
>> > > > > On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 11:30 PM, Shahzad Alam <
>> shahz...@gmail.com
>> > > >wrote:
>> > > > >> Guys,
>> > > > >> Love to comments on this thread but have limited time right now
>> due to
>> > > > >> travel schedule. Will respond in detail. But just as an example
>> please
>> > > find
>> > > > >> below a successfull story in another developed
>> > > market.......technology,
>> > > > >> planning, reachability, cost effectiveness and successful
>> business
>> > > plan
>> > > > >> strongly depends on APPLICATIONS. Need to see that what value
>> WiMAX
>> > > and its
>> > > > >> applications can add in masses?
>> > > > >> Russian operator Yota<
>> > >http://www.lightreading.com/complink_redirect.asp?vl_id=12019>
>> believes
>> > > > >> it has cracked the code for turning a quick buck from WiMax
>> services.
>> > > The
>> > > > >> company announced today that it has reached "operational
>> breakeven"
>> > > only
>> > > > >> five months after it launched commercial services in Moscow and
>> St.
>> > > > >> Petersburg. (See Yota Reaches Breakeven<
>> > >http://www.unstrung.com/document.asp?doc_id=184298>
>> > > > >> .)
>> > > > >> "Our business experience may be used as a reference point for
>> other
>> > > mobile
>> > > > >> WiMax operators. It demonstrates that 4G broadband services
>> business
>> > > can be
>> > > > >> quite profitable," states the company's general director Denis
>> > > Sverdlov in
>> > > > >> today's press release.
>> > > > >> But while there's no doubt the Yota team has made a number of
>> critical
>> > > > >> decisions that have worked in its favor, it's questionable
>> whether
>> > > many
>> > > > >> other WiMax startups will boast the same level of financial
>> backing,
>> > > operate
>> > > > >> in a similar competitive environment, and have the *cojones* to
>> match
>> > > > >> Yota's decisions on vendor partners, backhaul investments, and
>> > > subscriber
>> > > > >> growth strateg
>> > > > >> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 10:57 PM, liveunplug...@hotmail.com <
>> > > > >> bmugh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > >>> *1. If Clearwire is spending so much, then also look at size of
>> the
>> > > > >>> country + population + reach they are planning to target. **
>> > > > >>> 2. They're spending so much because it works better in developed
>> > > > >>> countries than the developing nations.
>> > > > >>> 3. The technology is produced to provide and easy internet
>> solution
>> > > to an
>> > > > >>> underdeveloped consumer but who said that it works well there?
>> > > > >>> 4. It obviously works better in US etc where there are no sight
>> and
>> > > loss
>> > > > >>> issues.
>> > > > >>> Thanks.
>> > > > >>> *
>> > > > >>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 9:01 PM, Haris Shamsi <
>> > > haris.sha...@gmail.com>wrote:
>> > > > >>>> So Rizwan, why do you think clear wire raised so much money in
>> a
>> > > > >>>> "developed" country to further rollout wimax ?
>> > > > >>>> On 11/12/09, Rizwan Sarwar <rsar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > >>>> > Correct Saqib, WiMax is not going to work in developed
>> countries
>> > > > >>>> because the
>> > > > >>>> > alternatives infrastructures are well established. Wired
>> being the
>> > > > >>>> dominant
>> > > > >>>> > form and wireless (3G, WiFi) being the 2nd best option
>> available.
>> > > It
>> > > > >>>> makes
>> > > > >>>> > sense for mobile providers too, they already have
>> infrastructure
>> > > in
>> > > > >>>> place to
>> > > > >>>> > add 3G to their offerings. Why invest in a technology that
>> will
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