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> We are hearing "loss" to facebook as well as Pakistan...Can anybody
> share the figures of "loss" to Pakistan?
How likely are you to outsource development of your Facebook application
to a company in Pakistan?
Faried.
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(> (length "eclipse") (length "emacs")) => T
Regards,
-m
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sure, if anyone here can come up with figures of "loss" to Pakistan,
or at-least guess few of losses due to FB ban?
Regards,
-m
--
> We truly are lost... can't even unite behind a time bound - almost harmless
> - protest effectively, fearing God knows what and mocking at it as if we
> were given birth in the pits of low self-esteem.
What kind of protest is it, to turn away and silence your own voice --
especially when you're a minority (~ 0.5%).
> Developers always get a way around, if normal users can use proxies
> and tunnels to get access then how come a technical resource can't
> access via vpn?
So, you don't have a problem with outsourcing to developers who can't
legally access Facebook? You'd prefer it to outsourcing to developers
who face no such hurdle? No business qualms here?
Ghulam Mustafa <mustafa.pk@gmail.com> writes:
> Developers always get a way around, if normal users can use proxies
> and tunnels to get access then how come a technical resource can't
> access via vpn?
So, you don't have a problem with outsourcing to developers who can't
legally access Facebook? You'd prefer it to outsourcing to developers
who face no such hurdle? No business qualms here?
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On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 6:32 PM, Wasim Baig <wa...@convergence.pk> wrote:
> On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 18:23, Faried Nawaz <not...@b.org.pk> wrote:
>>
>> Ghulam Mustafa <musta...@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> > Developers always get a way around, if normal users can use proxies
>> > and tunnels to get access then how come a technical resource can't
>> > access via vpn?
>>
>> So, you don't have a problem with outsourcing to developers who can't
>> legally access Facebook? You'd prefer it to outsourcing to developers
>> who face no such hurdle? No business qualms here?
>
> Not to mention "illegally" accessing Facebook through VPNs or proxies opens
> you up to contempt of court and liable to land you in jail ......
> --
> wasim h. baig | principal consultant | convergence pk | +92 30 0850 8070 |
> peace be upon you ...
>
mail: mustafa.pk@gmail.com
web: cyrenity.wordpress.com
I am amazed how almost everyone forgets about the fact that in all this Facebook is a TOOL. FACEBOOK DID NOT make this event all it did was the hypocritical statement about not removing the contents. Kindly do a little research on the facts on who started this event and how it was executed before we start to debate about Facebook on TGP.
If a knife is used to cut mangoes for kids then it can also be used to cut kids. It does not mean that the knife is evil... IT IS A TOOL and a tool can be used for good and bad both.
As far as the ban is concerned the govt did right to listen to a short sighted and rather hasty nation who demand a ban of a tool without proper knowledge of facts. Because if they didn't, people would come on streets and protest burn tyres and buses etc, a strike of a day or two has more loss than a stupid boycott of a website.
I can not seem to understand that how does blocking Facebook and other sites prove any point and or harm the person (Molly Norris) or anyone who made the art? Besides just one point that we Pakistani's do speak up... I believe that this is not even the right, as we have come up with a stupid and childish image of making emotional / hasty decisions.
I ask these three root questions to everyone because if you see, the owner of this event and the ones who actually conducted the event are not talked about and the artwork is still there.
1. What is the sharaii punishment for blasphemy? Is Molly Norris and or the people who participated, prosecuted already?
2. Have you tried to destroy or erase the artwork yourself with your own hands?
3. If the answer of the above two questions are "No" then what are we doing and what we should be doing?
Note that the lady who started to event hosted her website on a dot com domain, if boycott and ban is the answer we should be boycotting ICANN who registered the domain name, hence blocking the ENTIRE INTERNET. But who is to reach ICANN. I believe we are cowards and can't do anything, so we try to make target the easiest and most popular thing in our approach. I call this "Gham ghalat kar rahay hein"
I am not speaking for facebook or any other website. I am speaking for the benefit of this country and trying to point out the face that our decisions are illiterate and I personally feel that on a collective scale we all sound something like a "tribe" in zamana-e-jahiliyat.
On 31 May 2010 21:21, "Ghulam Mustafa" <mustafa.pk@gmail.com> wrote:
this is what exactly i was typing right now :), when court has banned
anything then it's illegal even if you are accessing it for
development purposes.
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 6:32 PM, Wasim Baig <wa...@convergence.pk> wrote:
> On Mon, May 31, 2010 at...
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Hello
Am looking for a field strength meter aka RF meter - in Karachi market,
anyone please guide me with a model, avlblty, approx price, and source to
purchase from
Thank you
Jamal
Transparency International's recent interference in to the Ministry of
IT activities is an example of how bad the situation is. Certain
tenders that were publicly advertised have also been questioned
including the procurement and transparency procedures in place in its
various sub-organizations.
The state of our nation is virtue of the state of its people so there
actually isn't anyone to blame other than us. IF we had kept an eye
together and attempted to question fund allocations, none of this
would have been happening in the first place.
We are on the tip of the blade and its very sharp and slippery and I
don't see much happening in the short-term!
--
Regards.
--------------------------
Fouad Bajwa
Internet Governance Advisor
ICT4D Social Practitioner & Researcher
Member Multistakeholder Advisory Group (IGF)
Member Civil Society Internet Governance Caucus (IGC)
My Blog: Internet's Governance: http://internetsgovernance.blogspot.com/
Follow my Tweets: http://twitter.com/fouadbajwa
MAG Interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATVDW1tDZzA
Hi Misbah,
I should appreciate your enthusiasm for a controlled software license regime but I can not agree with you
about your views on open source software. "FOSS is a crap created by hardware vendors" does not carry
enough substance and needs to be corrected.
I managed to find an inspiring talk from Richard Stallman that he delivered in Geneva in 2007.
Stallman left his professorial position at MIT and started the Free Software movement. I was
fortunate to be in the audience and you can scroll down the page to open the video
http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1038707
Money may not be the only motive to produce some interesting and novel software. Some brilliant
ideas are never submitted for a patent and are released as open source. Most funding agencies are now
making it compulsory to release the software as open source. The public money should go for the public
benefit. The EGEE project consumed almost 100 Million Euros and the whole software has been
release as open source. Most of the academic projects in top notch universities are released as
open source and this is increasingly becoming a practice now.
People can still earn money even if a piece of software is distributed free of cost, for example MySQL, JBOSS etc.
Free Software is more beneficial to developing nations and this is best way to unlock technology and
knowledge and make it available to have nots that can not afford to buy propriety solutions. Small and
medium scale enterprises are other beneficiaries of open source.
I agree that there should be ways to ensure return on investments but it may not be fair to attack
something that is useful for the society.
Cheers
AA
-----Original Message-----
From: telecom-gr...@googlegroups.com on behalf of misbaha...@googlemail.com
Sent: Sun 6/6/2010 6:47 PM
To: Telecom Grid Pakistan
Subject: Re: Claim to Fame of Pakistan
> You said, shut down 80% of local industry, I am willing to suggest to
> shutdown the complete local software industry if it relies on FOSS.
So...no more Ericsson switches because they use open source Erlang?
No more Cisco devices with that evil, evil free Tcl?
I don't know what Joel Spolsky's said about open source software, but I
know where he's invested his money (and his developers' time):
Kiln isn't open sourced, but it builds on top of free software. So,
should I follow what Joel says, or what he does?
> FOSS is a crap created by hardware vendors to keep a check on software
> prices, so that more & more hardware sells.
Clearly you've never heard of the old saying "What Intel giveth,
Microsoft taketh away": http://bit.ly/b9xYmP
> Also plz mind that 'understanding a code written by someone else' is
> times more difficult than writing your own code.
On the other hand, understanding code written by someone else is much
easier than reverse-engineering a binary blob and then trying to
understand it.
(That sentence of yours calls into question your experience as a
developer, and whose code you've had to read.)
Lastly, the fatal flaw in your argument. This whole subthread started
off with you quoting Usman's sentence:
I don't see how it makes a good business case to depend so much on
Facebook to earn money.
All things being equal, if depending on one "vendor" (Facebook) to make
money is a bad idea, businesswise, then how it a good idea to depend on
any software you have no control over?
It's just like how educators and developers in the local market know
PHP, Java, and .Net because that's what nearly all local employers want.
People develop for Facebook because that's where the users are, and
that's where they *do* make money.
The cost of writing a successful Facebook app (or Open Social -- deploys
to Orkut, Myspace, a bunch of other sites) is something like
- 1 or 2 developers
- 1 or 2 artists (who might be the developers themselves)
- a server or two (most VPS start at $20/mo)
- payment method (moneybookers, 2co, whatever)
- an idea.
That's within the reach of many, many people. Kids in college can pool
their money and develop something useful over a few weekends. With
access to over 400 million potential users, a 0.01% conversion rate is
still 40k paying users who'll tolerate the occasional 'beta' feature or
bug, if the app is compelling enough.
And telecom companies? Well, the Apple App store, Nokia's Ovi, and
Android's Marketplace are in the news (and on rozee.pk!) because your
app can be on millions of devices *without* dealing with the barriers
telecom companies throw up in your way.
> I was talking about FOSS as a business model for Paki IT companies :p
Lots of companies that *use* free and open source software in the local
market, and many depend on open source to some degree or other. I don't
know any company that bases its business model around *giving away* open
source software, though. If there are any, they're certainly not in the
majority.
> There is no need to reverse engineer any blob, & no need to see others
> code for your productivity. Just attend your university classes
> well :p
Please help me understand this. I feel that if it's my job to write
software, I am better off looking at other people's code and learning
techniques that way, and maybe even reusing their code.
> I calculate how many dollars the developer will earn per minute of his
> office work :)
A lot of people write software on their own time, too. If they want to
contribute to free software, that's great. If they want to make money
instead, that's fine with me, too.
> The rest of what you have written makes no head or tail. Apologies in
> place.....
No worries, I didn't really expect you to stand up for your points.
Please help me understand this. I feel that if it's my job to write
software, I am better off looking at other people's code and learning
techniques that way, and maybe even reusing their code.
> I calculate how many dollars the developer will earn per minute of hisA lot of people write software on their own time, too. If they want to
> office work :)
contribute to free software, that's great. If they want to make money
instead, that's fine with me, too.