Hi Diana, Here's a response from two math circles. At the New York Math Circle, we offered P-credit (this term might be specific to NYC schools) for one course a few years back and it wasn't a good experience. Besides an extra logistical burden on us, it attracted many teachers whose true motivation was the credit, and not the mathematics. We no longer offer P-credit. The result was fewer teachers, but a better experience. We now have a growing and dedicated group of teachers who form a real community. I've often heard remarks that they'll return to our programs when they want to learn and do math, and if they want "seat credit", well, there are many other, well-funded programs that provide that. I've also arranged Bard College graduate credit (education) for those who attend the NYMC summer workshop at Bard, and then document how it's transfered into their classroom. I thought this would be a significant motivation to attend, but in two years, nobody has claimed the credit!
The Bard Math Circle does not have a teachers' circle, yet, but I was able to arrange for Ulster BOCES to offer continuing education credit for math teachers who attend our circles for middle school students. It's not much credit at all, and we're attracting teachers mainly by word of mouth. The teachers who come tell me that they find the experience incredibly useful. Ulster BOCES thinks this will help them transition to Common Core. I think that we're building up genuine demand for a future teachers' circle.
My opinion is that our teachers' math circle community should stay focused on math enrichment for teachers, and provide as few incentives as possible other than a warm, mathematical environment. Providing excessive money and credit hours weakens what we do.
I already replied, but I just want to chime in one counterpoint to the comment below...
It is not true everywhere that there are lots of other ways for teachers to get PD credits. When we were able to offer PD credits for our summer retreat, we recruited 20+ teachers in a matter of days. There are very, very few opportunities for PD credits *for doing math*. The opportunities are all these general classroom management and effective instruction types of things. The math teachers were incredibly grateful for the opportunity to earn PD credits while doing math. And many of them have stayed on, even though it's not clear whether we can continue to offer the credits.
I don't think it waters anything down. In our case, we are (or were) providing a real service to the community, because there aren't abundant other ways for them to earn the (necessary) credits. Please consider that not all communities are exactly like yours before claiming that those of us offering incentives are "watering it down."
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Japheth Wood <jw...@bard.edu> wrote:
> My opinion is that our teachers' math circle community should stay focused > on math enrichment for teachers, and provide as few incentives as possible > other than a warm, mathematical environment. > Providing excessive money and credit hours weakens what we do.
> Japheth
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-- Michelle Manes Assistant Professor Department of Mathematics University of Hawaii at Manoa
I would like to second Michelle's comments. If this initiative is to impact schools and empower people who don't already see themselves as mathematical problem solvers, then something needs to provide an enticement.
I think I also understand the motivation behind Japheth's comment about "excessive" enticement: anyone paid to be part of something may not become the sustaining supporter that a volunteer would. Balance is always a key, and here I think "excessive" is the point.
Nights, weekends and summers are precious times with family, anything that isn't a family activity can increase the load a teacher feels. Teachers who are student and community-centered are typically already stretching the little time they have for themselves. Offering PD credit we not only raise the bar on the nature of PD but we obviate our teachers' need to find time for circles and PD.
Lynne Ipina Associate Professor Math. University of WY (307) 766-2318
On Feb 10, 2012, at 8:43 AM, Michelle Manes wrote:
> I already replied, but I just want to chime in one counterpoint to the > comment below...
> It is not true everywhere that there are lots of other ways for > teachers to get PD credits. When we were able to offer PD credits for > our summer retreat, we recruited 20+ teachers in a matter of days. > There are very, very few opportunities for PD credits *for doing > math*. The opportunities are all these general classroom management > and effective instruction types of things. The math teachers were > incredibly grateful for the opportunity to earn PD credits while doing > math. And many of them have stayed on, even though it's not clear > whether we can continue to offer the credits.
> I don't think it waters anything down. In our case, we are (or were) > providing a real service to the community, because there aren't > abundant other ways for them to earn the (necessary) credits. Please > consider that not all communities are exactly like yours before > claiming that those of us offering incentives are "watering it down."
> -michelle
> On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Japheth Wood <jw...@bard.edu> wrote:
>> My opinion is that our teachers' math circle community should stay focused >> on math enrichment for teachers, and provide as few incentives as possible >> other than a warm, mathematical environment. >> Providing excessive money and credit hours weakens what we do.
>> Japheth
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> -- > Michelle Manes > Assistant Professor > Department of Mathematics > University of Hawaii at Manoa
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Teachers' Net" group. > To post to this group, send email to teachersnet@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to teachersnet+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/teachersnet?hl=en.
Thanks Michelle and Lynne for your thoughts and feedback on my opinion paragraph. I'm glad to hear that my own observations about incentives and the quality of math offerings do not hold universally.
I'm excited that teachers' math circles are gaining popularity around the country. They are a great way for mathematicians to be directly engaged with math teachers in a conversation about mathematics and education. And, I strongly believe that the benefit goes both ways.
Best,
Japheth
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 2:44 PM, Lynne K. Ipina <Ip...@uwyo.edu> wrote:
> I would like to second Michelle's comments. If this initiative is to > impact schools > and empower people who don't already see themselves as mathematical > problem solvers, > then something needs to provide an enticement.
> I think I also understand the motivation behind Japheth's comment about > "excessive" enticement: anyone paid to be part of something may not become > the sustaining supporter that a volunteer would. Balance is always a key, > and here I think "excessive" is the point.
> Nights, weekends and summers are precious times with family, anything that > isn't a family activity can > increase the load a teacher feels. Teachers who are student and > community-centered are typically > already stretching the little time they have for themselves. Offering PD > credit we not only raise the bar > on the nature of PD but we obviate our teachers' need to find time for > circles and PD.
> Lynne Ipina > Associate Professor Math. > University of WY > (307) 766-2318
> On Feb 10, 2012, at 8:43 AM, Michelle Manes wrote:
> > I already replied, but I just want to chime in one counterpoint to the > > comment below...
> > It is not true everywhere that there are lots of other ways for > > teachers to get PD credits. When we were able to offer PD credits for > > our summer retreat, we recruited 20+ teachers in a matter of days. > > There are very, very few opportunities for PD credits *for doing > > math*. The opportunities are all these general classroom management > > and effective instruction types of things. The math teachers were > > incredibly grateful for the opportunity to earn PD credits while doing > > math. And many of them have stayed on, even though it's not clear > > whether we can continue to offer the credits.
> > I don't think it waters anything down. In our case, we are (or were) > > providing a real service to the community, because there aren't > > abundant other ways for them to earn the (necessary) credits. Please > > consider that not all communities are exactly like yours before > > claiming that those of us offering incentives are "watering it down."
> > -michelle
> > On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Japheth Wood <jw...@bard.edu> wrote:
> >> My opinion is that our teachers' math circle community should stay > focused > >> on math enrichment for teachers, and provide as few incentives as > possible > >> other than a warm, mathematical environment. > >> Providing excessive money and credit hours weakens what we do.
> >> Japheth
> >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > >> "Teachers' Net" group. > >> To post to this group, send email to teachersnet@googlegroups.com. > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> teachersnet+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > >> For more options, visit this group at > >> http://groups.google.com/group/teachersnet?hl=en.
> > -- > > Michelle Manes > > Assistant Professor > > Department of Mathematics > > University of Hawaii at Manoa
> > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Teachers' Net" group. > > To post to this group, send email to teachersnet@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > teachersnet+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/teachersnet?hl=en.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Teachers' Net" group. > To post to this group, send email to teachersnet@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > teachersnet+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/teachersnet?hl=en.
-- BardMAT MASTER OF ARTS IN TEACHING PROGRAM
-=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- Japheth Wood, PhD Mathematics Faculty Bard MAT Program -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- "It is the duty of all teachers, and of teachers of mathematics in particular, to expose their students to problems much more than to facts." -- Paul Halmos -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- themathwizard <http://www.japheth.org/homepage/blog/> | twitter<http://twitter.com/#!/japhethwood>
In Tucson, we supply a "Certificate of Participation" which applies toward state of Arizona Recertification. Some local districts count the certificates toward a $500 bonus for teachers who participate in 45 or more hours of professional development in a year.
I agree that the motivation should be the mathematical enrichment and the supportive community of educators, but I also think that having at least a /Certificate of Participation/ provides documentation of their efforts.
> Hi Diana, > Here's a response from two math circles. > At the New York Math Circle, we offered P-credit (this term might be > specific to NYC schools) for one course a few years back and it wasn't > a good experience. > Besides an extra logistical burden on us, it attracted many teachers > whose true motivation was the credit, and not the mathematics. We no > longer offer P-credit. The result was fewer teachers, but a better > experience. > We now have a growing and dedicated group of teachers who form a real > community. I've often heard remarks that they'll return to our > programs when they want to learn and do math, and if they want "seat > credit", well, there are many other, well-funded programs that provide > that. > I've also arranged Bard College graduate credit (education) for those > who attend the NYMC summer workshop at Bard, and then document how > it's transfered into their classroom. I thought this would be a > significant motivation to attend, but in two years, nobody has claimed > the credit!
> The Bard Math Circle does not have a teachers' circle, yet, but I was > able to arrange for Ulster BOCES to offer continuing education credit > for math teachers who attend our circles for middle school students. > It's not much credit at all, and we're attracting teachers mainly by > word of mouth. > The teachers who come tell me that they find the experience incredibly > useful. Ulster BOCES thinks this will help them transition to Common > Core. I think that we're building up genuine demand for a future > teachers' circle.
> My opinion is that our teachers' math circle community should stay > focused on math enrichment for teachers, and provide as few incentives > as possible other than a warm, mathematical environment. > Providing excessive money and credit hours weakens what we do.
> Japheth
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Teachers' Net" group. > To post to this group, send email to teachersnet@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > teachersnet+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/teachersnet?hl=en.
