Here is a first cut of some questions which might be useful. Add your own, mash these, as you wish. The idea is not to find fault with existing systems but to understand risk from a student centred perspective and including wider social risks and opportunities to help see the implications of institutional or systemic risk management choices. Feel free to wrangle these into themes on the wiki or in blogs etc. I think creating some useful ways forward or examples aroung these kinds of questions might be constructive.
Physics of safety. Institutional risk and student development? What role does risk play in learning? If there are 'no risk' approaches to working with technology in schools, where does that risk then happen? Students are active in myspace, facebook, youtube, online games forums, sites for sharing artwork and self expression. These tools are a part of the fabric of young lives. If it is too challenging for students to learn the impact of choices in online media in schools, where does it happen? Where could it happen? What does it look like?
Supporting systems Do the current legal and insurance models serve Australian society well? What kinds of models as used elsewhere, do they result in different opportunities/risks. eg Which policies on websites send children underground rather than providing means for supported participation Do blame based insurance models work at counterpoint to systems where shared responsibility is required. What are the methods and processes for review of these frameworks for a 21 century networked community.
Participative safety - safety is something I make. If safety is seen only as a fence around a cohort of students, what opportunities are lost to ensure safety as a function of constructive participation? Bullying is a concern in schoolyards. What happens if the schoolyard points of reference for power are the loudest exemplars on the internet, perhaps reinforced by media which promotes conflict, win/lose, models for managing communities. Big brother house, biggest loser, weakest link, largely gladiatorial approaches to conflict resolution. If these models are the context which students see, where can win/win collaboration and inclusive solutions be formed.
Visible power. Where do students find exemplars of best practice collaboration, participation and power online? If the kinds of 'voice' made possible by using technologies visibly online to generate instances of constructive use of power, leadership, participation, online are not available in school, where do children find the norms for collaboration which might fit in a workplace or university?
Developing safe adults If a student should have the skills to participate in a workplace using only 'appropriate use guidelines' by the end of school, where does that skill and maturity develop. How could it be staged. Who could contribute to decisions about when the student is ready for new challenges? Safety for elderly people is a societal risk. How do practices in participation which respect the needs for safety of others develop in contexts where students learn safety as a function of same age participation with the bad people all being 'other'.
Success and diversity. Students use the internet primarily to connect with people they know. Adults often connect around ideas hobbies, interests or projects which they are following, regardless of the location of participants. Bikeriding, technology, dogbreeding, music, art. Are there ways for students to find their own path for work or special interest in online communities. Are there mentors who can support the development of these skills? How does/could this kind of special interest community work offer support for students learning at school. What kinds of negotiations should happen and what kind of online systems are well designed for children to participate in these kinds of communities? What kinds of mentoring communities engage in skill based criteria for participation? Perhaps this kind of online diversification provide useful opportunities for different kinds of community and work success and ways forward.
I have found this event and thread difficult work but it feels like work which needs doing. For me this is about facing fear. Systemically and socially I think it might also be a matter of how we process fear and what facing it looks like. Two aspirational perspectives about the kinds of work we might need to be doing:
And a challenge. I found Clifford Stoll difficult to watch and felt impatient, but went back the next day to listen again. Imagine Stoll as a student. A student who wants to be a scientist. We want to encourage participation in science. What does this mean in terms of encouraging inquisitive journeys. http://www.ted.com/speakers/view/id/213 He is brilliant, quirky and passionate about learning and looks like a challenge for a teaching and learning context. And yet he is contributing, and cares deeply about the importance of other people caring about that kind of contribution. What does this mean? Imagine Stoll as a student. Do we have skills for being inclusive of diversity in the ways we structure learning. What is efficient/rich, what is useful/interesting, how can parents and students choose what feels valuable. How can teachers get support for trying things which have no precedent. How can students get support for trying things which have no precedent. What kinds of systems help our society to face its fears in ways which make us more connected and whole. When things break do we have methods for healing individually and collectively.
Teachers and schools are under a lot of pressure because we have socially so much disparity and unprocessed mess. It is not fair to pack all of this challenge into schools for industrial processing. It is equally not useful to exclude who we are from our education system. So there needs to be some flow and shared responsibility. We need the ability to develop skills in constructively negotiating for a diverse and aspirationally motivated Australia. The Beyond Beliefs Islam and non Islam Australia conversations were powerful. I see these kinds of cross connections and conversations being a larger part of our social processing. They help us to do the work required to deal constructively with diversity? There are other ways too? Fun and festivals. Music and language.
We probably cannot do some of these things using the industrial processing techniques which have become familiar in education. Class sizes and timetables, standard tests come with some underlying assumptions about value, goals and common directions which might need review. Perhaps we need to review resourcing for schools and to do this as a social responsibility(as per Clifford Stoll) as much as a funding question for a sector of governance.
We could do with constructive Media participation which finds ways to make commercial value through supporting inclusive and constructive negotiation of contention.
Perhaps each individual in society could be seen as a contributor who is on a learning journey facing fears and finding ways to collaborate constructively. Doing the mind training. The mix of opportunities, negotiations and also fences which relate to that person's contributions need to be about making safety through the kinds of participation which is required and through encouraging them to take new steps. Fences used need to relate to the point on the path of the person on that journey, whether that is because they are very young or because there is a problem which needs to be handled in a controlled space.
These are just my thoughts. Passing the baton back to the gang there are many folks on list who are more experienced in the specifics of these issues in a school context. What does your ideal outcome look like? Which pieces of puzzle need to be in place to make first steps in those directions?
Two other thoughts which have been suggested are comparisons between traditional forms of connection for children and modern equivallents.
Penpals are an example. Perhaps blogs are a similar model to penpals.
Is transparency of the correspondence something which contributes to security by enabling the parents to see what is being shared and to be part of the dialogue/negotiation.
Phew....hmmm....just overwhelming really. So much thought out into
this and some great questions. We could quote the whole thing really
and run with that but I'd like to hear some other voices come into
this conversation.
Perhaps a voice thread might work.
I'll test my new pro-threads account now and post the link back here
and perhaps embed it in the wiki.
On Apr 6, 4:08 pm, "Janet Hawtin" <lucych...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have found this event and thread difficult work but it feels like
> work which needs doing.
> For me this is about facing fear. Systemically and socially I think it
> might also be
> a matter of how we process fear and what facing it looks like.
> Two aspirational perspectives about the kinds of work we might need to be doing:
> And a challenge.
> I found Clifford Stoll difficult to watch and felt impatient, but went
> back the next day to listen again.
> Imagine Stoll as a student. A student who wants to be a scientist. We
> want to encourage participation in science.
> What does this mean in terms of encouraging inquisitive journeys.http://www.ted.com/speakers/view/id/213 > He is brilliant, quirky and passionate about learning and looks like a
> challenge for a teaching and learning context.
> And yet he is contributing, and cares deeply about the importance of
> other people caring about that kind of contribution.
> What does this mean? Imagine Stoll as a student. Do we have skills for
> being inclusive of diversity in the ways we structure learning.
> What is efficient/rich, what is useful/interesting, how can parents
> and students choose what feels valuable.
> How can teachers get support for trying things which have no precedent.
> How can students get support for trying things which have no precedent.
> What kinds of systems help our society to face its fears in ways which
> make us more connected and whole.
> When things break do we have methods for healing individually and collectively.
> Teachers and schools are under a lot of pressure because we have
> socially so much disparity and unprocessed mess.
> It is not fair to pack all of this challenge into schools for
> industrial processing.
> It is equally not useful to exclude who we are from our education system.
> So there needs to be some flow and shared responsibility.
> We need the ability to develop skills in constructively negotiating
> for a diverse and aspirationally motivated Australia.
> The Beyond Beliefs Islam and non Islam Australia conversations were powerful.
> I see these kinds of cross connections and conversations being a
> larger part of our social processing.
> They help us to do the work required to deal constructively with diversity?
> There are other ways too? Fun and festivals. Music and language.
> We probably cannot do some of these things using the industrial
> processing techniques which have become familiar in education.
> Class sizes and timetables, standard tests come with some underlying
> assumptions about value, goals and common directions which might need
> review. Perhaps we need to review resourcing for schools and to do
> this as a social responsibility(as per Clifford Stoll) as much as a
> funding question for a sector of governance.
> We could do with constructive Media participation which finds ways to
> make commercial value through supporting inclusive and constructive
> negotiation of contention.
> Perhaps each individual in society could be seen as a contributor who
> is on a learning journey facing fears and finding ways to collaborate
> constructively. Doing the mind training. The mix of opportunities,
> negotiations and also fences which relate to that person's
> contributions
> need to be about making safety through the kinds of participation
> which is required and through encouraging them to take new steps.
> Fences used need to relate to the point on the path of the person on
> that journey, whether that is because they are very young or because
> there is a problem which needs to be handled in a controlled space.
> These are just my thoughts.
> Passing the baton back to the gang there are many folks on list who
> are more experienced
> in the specifics of these issues in a school context.
> What does your ideal outcome look like?
> Which pieces of puzzle need to be in place to make first steps in
> those directions?
> Phew....hmmm....just overwhelming really. So much thought out into > this and some great questions. We could quote the whole thing really > and run with that but I'd like to hear some other voices come into > this conversation.
> Perhaps a voice thread might work.
> I'll test my new pro-threads account now and post the link back here > and perhaps embed it in the wiki.
Yes I am hoping the ideas get munged refined and added to by other folks. There must be so many people with hands on experience who could make the questions more specific or better informed.
> I have found this event and thread difficult work but it feels like
> work which needs doing.
> For me this is about facing fear. Systemically and socially I think it
> might also be
> a matter of how we process fear and what facing it looks like.
> Two aspirational perspectives about the kinds of work we might need to be doing:
> And a challenge.
> I found Clifford Stoll difficult to watch and felt impatient, but went
> back the next day to listen again.
> Imagine Stoll as a student. A student who wants to be a scientist. We
> want to encourage participation in science.
> What does this mean in terms of encouraging inquisitive journeys.http://www.ted.com/speakers/view/id/213 > He is brilliant, quirky and passionate about learning and looks like a
> challenge for a teaching and learning context.
> And yet he is contributing, and cares deeply about the importance of
> other people caring about that kind of contribution.
> What does this mean? Imagine Stoll as a student. Do we have skills for
> being inclusive of diversity in the ways we structure learning.
> What is efficient/rich, what is useful/interesting, how can parents
> and students choose what feels valuable.
> How can teachers get support for trying things which have no precedent.
> How can students get support for trying things which have no precedent.
> What kinds of systems help our society to face its fears in ways which
> make us more connected and whole.
> When things break do we have methods for healing individually and collectively.
> Teachers and schools are under a lot of pressure because we have
> socially so much disparity and unprocessed mess.
> It is not fair to pack all of this challenge into schools for
> industrial processing.
> It is equally not useful to exclude who we are from our education system.
> So there needs to be some flow and shared responsibility.
> We need the ability to develop skills in constructively negotiating
> for a diverse and aspirationally motivated Australia.
> The Beyond Beliefs Islam and non Islam Australia conversations were powerful.
> I see these kinds of cross connections and conversations being a
> larger part of our social processing.
> They help us to do the work required to deal constructively with diversity?
> There are other ways too? Fun and festivals. Music and language.
> We probably cannot do some of these things using the industrial
> processing techniques which have become familiar in education.
> Class sizes and timetables, standard tests come with some underlying
> assumptions about value, goals and common directions which might need
> review. Perhaps we need to review resourcing for schools and to do
> this as a social responsibility(as per Clifford Stoll) as much as a
> funding question for a sector of governance.
> We could do with constructive Media participation which finds ways to
> make commercial value through supporting inclusive and constructive
> negotiation of contention.
> Perhaps each individual in society could be seen as a contributor who
> is on a learning journey facing fears and finding ways to collaborate
> constructively. Doing the mind training. The mix of opportunities,
> negotiations and also fences which relate to that person's
> contributions
> need to be about making safety through the kinds of participation
> which is required and through encouraging them to take new steps.
> Fences used need to relate to the point on the path of the person on
> that journey, whether that is because they are very young or because
> there is a problem which needs to be handled in a controlled space.
> These are just my thoughts.
> Passing the baton back to the gang there are many folks on list who
> are more experienced
> in the specifics of these issues in a school context.
> What does your ideal outcome look like?
> Which pieces of puzzle need to be in place to make first steps in
> those directions?
On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 10:33 PM, Janet Hawtin <lucych...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 7:58 PM, alexanderhayes > <alexanderhayes1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > There is some really great things here Janet.
> > Phew....hmmm....just overwhelming really. So much thought out into > > this and some great questions. We could quote the whole thing really > > and run with that but I'd like to hear some other voices come into > > this conversation.
> > Perhaps a voice thread might work.
> > I'll test my new pro-threads account now and post the link back here > > and perhaps embed it in the wiki.
> Yes I am hoping the ideas get munged refined and added to by other folks. > There must be so many people with hands on experience who could make > the questions more specific or better informed.
On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 8:26 PM, Leigh Blackall <leighblack...@gmail.com> wrote: > Yes, but are they "credible"?
Sorry Leigh
The link hangs for me. fwiw I am not in any position as a non-educator participant in an open community to critque who is credible in a discussion about safety in schools.
I felt I was in a position to try and make an opportunity for those folks who might have something to bring to the topic. I have tried to structure the opportunity to keep the focus on what might be and to avoid ligntning strikes through people who are having a go from any perspective. ie I am trying to make an opportunity about sharing responsibility not finding villians. I think there is room for the wider community to have an impact by using that kind of conversation wherever they are. One day is a small target so I am trying to find ways to get the conversation sitting on a broader base and with a wider contribution than the kind of scope which might fit in a one day face to face. Any groundwork done online in weeks prior could be very useful.
If a framework which supports open practice in schools is the goal, what are your ideal approaches to safety and learning What first steps feel useful to you.
Mike Seyfang and I [John Travers] have been talking about the event, and..... I'll be in Japan for most of April, so won't be able to take a lead. Mike is just taking up a full time job and will need his sleeps.
We think that a predominantly online panel discussion with some distant and local panelists for about an hour with an agreed structure using panelists with credibility, representing both sides of the liberty and control viewpoints and hundreds of listeners to the discussion, who have the ability to text in questions and comments [breath] would be a good plan. So, a) what do you think of this? And b) a good convenor in Adelaide is needed to make it happen on the day.
fwiw this was what made me think I should try and make something happen which made more use of the presence of people in Adelaide. The event is quite different and the wiki includes the kinds of things we are aiming for now?
The format is now a 1 day face to face event with online contributions happening in a more general way. I dont know if the current format is better or worse for people. Feel free to comment.
Not trying to do online participation on the day because I figured it would be a full day face to face and that the online conversations could work just as well in an asynchronous way. Keeping it simple.
I thought that building the online perspectives in the weeks prior would provide opportunities for more people with different voices to participate. This conversation is one that is surely happening in many nations and in many schools and communities. Doing good work online regarding solutions for these questions is hopefully a useful project beyond the scope of the Adelaide event.
Joan Russell has offered to chair the event. I think that is a groovesome thing. Trying for a mix of perspectives Student, parent, teacher, tech, librarian, department, community, law. Room for 8 perspectives in the am session. Can have 14 folks there if we use the boardroom. There is an open space which can fit more but that would be in the open office area/lunch room.
For me this felt like something might happen at the event if there was a good mix of people there but that the wider conversations around these questions online would be likely to bring together more useful work long term.
The idea is not to find fault with existing systems but to understand risk from a student centred perspective and including wider social risks and opportunities to help see the implications of institutional or systemic risk management choices
risk from a student centred perspective?
I think that's the wrong approach - even if you frame risk as a positive (which is true) but still if the overall framework is "risk" then you'll get the wrong answers
on the other hand, if the framework is learning (for example) then some risk taking emerges from that discussion as essential
when students take risks they are normally thinking about something else eg. curious, looking for adventure etc. - possibly even those who are "at risk", which again arises from other social factors
if you make risk the focus then you'll end up with a conservative agenda - this risk is justified / is not justified for some wider reason, what wider reason?
Just as if teachers talk about "behaviour management" without factoring in wider issues (such as learning) they'll get the wrong answers too
