God is a reality, not a belief (Post-Modernism)
The DataRat
Pondering your post, Frank, the Calvinist Rodent
thinks that one place we diverge is in our approach
to evangelism. You go directly to the Gospel.
Bro. Rat has been very impressed with 1 Corinthians
1:18 ( "The word of the cross is to those who are
perishing foolishness..." NASB ).
THAT certainly was true for a formerly atheist
DataRat !
His strategy is based on the presumption that one
doesn't feel the need to be saved if one isn't
convinced one is lost. So, the Genevan Rodent
usually starts with the Law. Only once a person
feels condemned can they appreciate Grace.
Another aspect of Bro. Rat's ministry is that it's
apologetics oriented. It's more about defending
the faith, and giving an answer about why we believe,
than traditional evangelism.
The Reformed Rodent doesn't view his primary
audience as the person he's replying to. A lot of
times the other person in the debate has a really
hardened heart, and does not have ears to hear
what Scripture is saying. Yet, Bro. Rat knows that
many other people are following the threads. Some
of those are seeking the truth.
Some of us harvest the crop. Some water and tend
the plants as they grow. Others put seeds into the
ground. Still others plow the fields before planting.
The Calvinist Rodent thinks of himself as the guy who
goes through the field before plowing, and removes
the stones and rocks.
Besides doing standard apologetics, Bro. Rat also
has a secondary mission. It is his belief that
"Christianity" has gotten typecast into an effeminate,
nicey-nicey, sissyish mold. The Genevan Rodent
thinks of Jesus driving the merchants out of the temple.
Jesus is no wimp ! And real Christianity is dynamic,
energetic, and powerful ! Bro. Rat tries to put ~that~
across in his ministry.
Your Buddy,
The DataRat
Frank A.S.
>usually starts with the Law. Only once a person
>feels condemned can they appreciate Grace.
>
Actually I have been doing the same. How few and rare the occasion I actually can get into the
"curse of the law" and the saving grace and love that IS the Lord our Savour Jesus Christ (except in
my sig.). I thought originally that that topic would predominate in religious NGs for it is THE ONE
aspect missing from ALL other religions. That is WHY I call other religions "incomplete", (not evil
or of the devil, like my more literalist brothers will have it). But as it turned out, I seldom get
a chance to testify of the magnificence and glory of SAVING GRACE.
>Another aspect of Bro. Rat's ministry is that it's
>apologetics oriented. It's more about defending
>the faith, and giving an answer about why we believe,
>than traditional evangelism.
>
I get more and more the impression, that what we defend the faith against is chronic depression
and the cynical negativity symptomatic of it. Don't you feel the bleakness and hoplessness of hell
coming through when reading confirmed atheist polemics? They could just sum up everything they have
to say and their view of existence as a whole in just 3 words: All is shit. I have never met an
atheist who extolls any inspiring philosophy of life or praises persons living up to great moral
ideals. Have you? God, Christ, even one as Mother Teresa is just "more shit".
>The Reformed Rodent doesn't view his primary
>audience as the person he's replying to.
Neither do I. But lately I have been trying to put the brakes on the most virulent of the
atheist, by calling them Satan's agents. We will see whether they will either leave or treat theists
with a little more respect in their religious NGs.
In the beginning I engaged atheists in their own NGs, but after a few years of being the focus
of their abuse in news:alt.atheism, I need a break, and post presently exclusively to religious NGs.
>
>Some of us harvest the crop. Some water and tend
>the plants as they grow. Others put seeds into the
>ground. Still others plow the fields before planting.
>The Calvinist Rodent thinks of himself as the guy who
>goes through the field before plowing, and removes
>the stones and rocks.
>
God bless you efforts.
>Besides doing standard apologetics, Bro. Rat also
>has a secondary mission. It is his belief that
>"Christianity" has gotten typecast into an effeminate,
>nicey-nicey, sissyish mold. The Genevan Rodent
>thinks of Jesus driving the merchants out of the temple.
>Jesus is no wimp ! And real Christianity is dynamic,
>energetic, and powerful ! Bro. Rat tries to put ~that~
>across in his ministry.
>
Good point. Did you EVER hear ANY minister preach on: "The Kingdom of heaven suffereth violence,
and the violent take it by force" (Matt. 11:12) and how one is to put THAT into action? I sure would
like to know if one could translate the original as: "And the assertive take it by force".
No. Our Jesus was no 'goody goody two shoes'!
Frank
A friend to Jesus, Buddha, LaoTse and all who love
It was LOVE that held Jesus to the cross, not nails.
All you need is LOVE (God is Love).
If you have LOVE, you are born again (1 John 4:7)
No LOVE, No God Know LOVE, Know God
No LOVE, No heaven Know LOVE, Know heaven
Fear of the Lord is only the BEGINNING of wisdom.
In the perfection of wisdom, God's perfect LOVE casts out fear (1John 4:18)
There is no fear in LOVE.
Nothing can separate us from the LOVE of Jesus (Rom 8:39)
-Kevin Williams in alt.bible
The DataRat
"...someone who does not know the Bible very well
e-mailed me and thanked me profusely for defending
the truth of the doctrine of the Trinity against some
heretics on these NGs who've been trying to discredit
it."
This is something that the Calvinist Rodent suspects
a lot of Christians in the newsgroups don't fully
appreciate: There are a whole lot of people reading
the threads who seldom -if ever- participate. Many
of these are new Christians, or seekers with little
knowledge of Scripture.
They read the various scoffers, false religionists,
heretics, apostates, and atheists. If we do not
counter those people, their lies and distortions
stand. This isn't evangelism, per se, but "pre-
evangelism" ( i.e., apologetics ).
"...always being ready to make a defense to
everyone who asks you to give an account..."
( 1 Peter 3:15 NASB )
The idea is to at least have a record before the
public of what the Gospel really is. Otherwise,
people only have the false "gospel" of the
anti-Christs ...one intended to deceive and lead
~away~ from Christ.
Your Buddy,
The DataRat
Pete Yadlowsky
> as much sex as possible, collecting as much money
> as we can, and gaining whatever power and prestige
> we might, before dying and losing it all !
There's that old caricature again. If this is what atheism was actually
like for you, it's no wonder you turned to religion. Life without
religion just ain't for everybody, I guess.
--
Pete Yadlowsky | Serious error!
ITC | All inodes have disappeared.
University of Virginia | Screen. Mind. Both are blank.
http://boffo.itc.virginia.edu/~pmy/ |
Frank A.S.
>Frank A.S. wrote:
>
>> [Atheists] could just sum up everything they have
>> to say and their view of existence as a whole in just 3 words: All is shit.
>
>listening or you're dismissing as inconvenient remarks that run contrary
>to your prejudices regarding religion-less living.
Your very answer proves that you have nothing positive to add except expressing your view that
everything a theist has to say IS SHIT!
All is not shit.
Prove it by telling us enthusiastically about your philosophical discoveries and insights, so
that we will have a desire to adopt you philosophy of life. Just telling us we are wrong about
everything does NOT get us to support you.
>From all I've seen and experienced (as an ex-Christian), gods are the
>invention of people who fear life's wilderness and want desperately to
>know that someone is in charge, and that that someone looks more or less
>favorably upon them. That's not for me.
>
Of course it's a matter of mind, but at least a positive mind (holy spirit), one who extolls
caring love of a perfect man who laid down his life for us while we were still imperfect. It all
pivots about what kind of relationship one has with life. Is it: Rebellion? Obedience to duty? Love?
Unfortunately caring love, agape is NOT subject to man's will. Is that the end of it? For you it
seems to be. You gave up and haven't discovered anything captivating since, or you would have given
at least a hint in your post.
Frank
A friend to Jesus, Buddha, LaoTse and all who love
The world needs LOVE (the Spirit of Christ).
To LOVE Jesus is to obey His commandments.
His commandments are this: LOVE.
If you have LOVE, the Kingdom of heaven is within you.
If you have no LOVE, you are already in hell.
People are in hell because they refuse to LOVE (2 Tess. 2:10)
The LOVE of God is a consuming fire that burns the HELL right out of
the sinner.
LOVE torments a legion of demons.
Knowing LOVE is absolute heaven.
Having no LOVE is absolute hell.
-Kevin Williams in alt.bible
Barry O'Grady
:
:
:"Will you PLEASE fix the settings in your
: News-reader?"
:
:
:
:Not "fix", Frank. The Genevan Rodent's settings
:are not ~broke~. He CHANGED the settings.
:There was a reason why, too:
He likes to pretend he is talking to himself.
merlin
> That is correct. But you don't wish to discuss religion sympathetically,
now you are telling people how to think? you really do have a big
spiritual ego if you can demand sympathy while giving none.
merlin
satan loves it when you get off the message of jesus love in the world and
into the politics of your religion enstead.
Pete Yadlowsky
> >> What IS your purpose here?
> >I explained that in a previous article. Did you not see it?
> I did not.
Then here it is again: my intent is to present to believers a take on
unbelief (my own) that they may not have been aware of; to perhaps to
begin to dissolve the dearly held caricature of atheists as subhumans
who live only to pursue sex, money, power or what have you. At 41 years
of age, I'm not the horny young stud I once was, so sex isn't as big a
deal anymore (this is actually rather liberating in its own way). I'm
not wealthy but financially comfortable, and have no particular interest
in pursuing huge piles of cash; got other, more fun stuff to do. And
power? What am I going to do with that? I can't even be bothered to wear
a tie, let alone run for office or head huge corporations. Basically,
I'm just a cause and an effect of all the forces and substances spinning
around and through me. I acquire and lose form as they do and expect to
one day dissolve into nothing. I'm content in not-knowing and so do not
need to either postulate or refute the existence of a being that is
all-knowing. I just enjoy participating in the process, for as long or
as briefly as I may. You might perhaps see, then, that I have no use for
religion. Direct experience of and participation in whatever this is
leaves little time for idle conjecture and belief.
> >As has already been pointed out, these are public forums. They are for
> >the discussion of religion, pro and con.
> That is correct. But you don't wish to discuss religion sympathetically,
I don't have to. You've simply said nothing so far that I can agree
with, and you've been on the whole quite rude and arrogant, not so much
with me as with others. And they with you as well, but you're supposed
to know better than to retaliate in kind.
> from the evidence you
> wish nothing else than to dump your hate of theists and their Holy Books into our NGs.
Oh, please. I don't hate theists. Virtually all of my friends are
theists.
> Wanting to "discuss" is one thing, but to tell us off in our own NGs is quite another, and when
> you do that I have the right and obligation
> to tell you to scram.
Well, I'm not going to scram until I've said all I care to say. So
there. Besides, didn't you recently advise your fellows not to respond
to us agents of Satan? One of the best ways to get someone to scram is
to ignore them.
Frank A.S.
>dear frank,
>
>> That is correct. But you don't wish to discuss religion sympathetically,
>
>spiritual ego if you can demand sympathy while giving none.
>into the politics of your religion enstead.
You need to make a decision. Either you are FOR Christ or AGAINST Christ. Religious NGs don't
need trolling atheists coming in to spew their hate for religions and contempt for their adherents.
Any believer who lets himself and His God be abused without standing up and be counted
non-violently, shows his cowardliness and lack of respect for the millions of Christian martyrs who
gave their lives in non-violent defense of their faith.
What DO you stand for, Merlin?
Frank
A friend to Jesus, Buddha, LaoTse and all who love
2. SLUR THE POSTER
This is Racist! You are a bigot! A cult leader!
You are a mental defective! Intellectually challenged!
You are a fool, twit, moron, hypocrite!
You are a moral degenerate! A deviate! A pervert!
You have been spewing your garbage over the internet!
-à la R.F. Hall's Refuter's Instruction Manual
merlin
> You need to make a decision. Either you are FOR Christ or AGAINST Christ.
which are you? it is you that needs to decide to be for christ and move
away from prejudice and misinformation. you have made more than one
false statement in defense of your interpretation of the bible.
> Religious NGs don't
> need trolling atheists coming in to spew their hate for religions and
contempt > for their adherents.
your rudeness does not make you a christian. and you have never spoken to
jesus -- so much of what you believe is just conjecture.
and where do you get the idea tha merlin is an atheist?
> Any believer who lets himself and His God be abused without standing
up and be counted
you are abusing god everytime you post here in hate and
selfrighteousness. you present yourself as ajudgmental mean spirited
political religionist and you call merlin names. what is your point?
> non-violently, shows his cowardliness and lack of respect for the
millions of Christian
you are the one defacing your own religion. either live by the message of
jesus or do not, it is your joice, merlin has nothing to do with your mean
spirited posts.
> martyrs who
i do not believe in human or animal sacrefices to or for god. i do not
believe in salvation by human sacrefice. that you do speaks volumes for
your violent behavior against those that disagree with you.
> gave their lives in non-violent defense of their faith.
i would rather you preached living for your faith, but you insist on
speaking of dying for your faith. until this death wish stops we will see
more violence against selected groups by chrisitains that think like you.
> What DO you stand for, Merlin?
please explain, i am presently sitting at a computer.
merlin
again, you post without mentioning jesus message of love and forgivance in
the world.
Frank A.S.
>> What DO you stand for, Merlin?
>
>please explain, i am presently sitting at a computer.
>
Just as I thought! You have no principles nor character ideals which you try to live up to, to
show us. You are a permanent downer, a gadfly, nagger, accuser and refuter who has nothing positive
to contribute in religious NGs, beyond expressing your hatred and jealousy for Christians rejoicing
in their Lord in their religious NGs. That is your only real purpose in life, isn't it?
Frank
A friend to Jesus, Buddha, LaoTse and all who love
"Tolerance is the virtue of people who don't believe in anything."
-anon-
Sam Taylor
For GOD (woops!) the first and third person of the
Holy Trinity so loved the world, that HE (woops!)
they Gave (sorry) LOANED HIS (woops!) THIER
Only begotten(woops!) conceptualized Son (sorry
the second person of the Trinity that Whosoever
Might believe on him(woops!) THAT WHOSOEVER MIGHT GET THIS HIDDEN KNOWLEDGE
should
not perish,but have everlasting Life.
For GOD (sorry) THE FIRST AND SECOND
PERSONS OF THE TRINITY sent not HIS (woops!)
THIER SON (WOOPS)other personality unto
the world, to condemn the world but the through HIM
(woops) the second person of the Trinity Might
Be saved.
Frank A.S.
>In article <70rhg3$ghj$1...@goblin.uunet.ca>,
>Frank A.S. <NOSPA...@netrover.com> wrote:
>
>>>Seeing and acting naturally from empathy, from connectedness, there is
>>>no need or room for such mental clutter as "good", "evil", "ideal" or
>>>"perfection". One simply does what needs doing, like scratching an itch.
>
>> You vote from your feeling of "empathy and connectedness" for a government which tells you
it's
>>OK to kill Commies, Jews, unborn healthy babies etc. or tells you to do it, and therefore it
can't
>>be evil, right? Doing good or evil is from a feeling of "empathy and connectedness", instead of
>>principles and ideals is: "Like scratching an itch" really!!!!!! For lack of character, some
people
>>let the government or the current fashion / friends do the thinking for them. Are one of them?
>
>I don't know how you get any of this from anything I've said. Is this
>some kind of performance art? "Improvisational Comprehension"?
>
Looks like you have managed to remove so much of your "mental clutter" that there is nothing at
all left in your attic, you poor clod. Don't you know, that "empathy and connectedness" are
functions of caring love (which IS the Christian God as per 1 John 4:8) and which are NOT subject to
man's will?
My main objection is with your use of colloquialism in an academic discussions of a religious /
philosophical nature. "Like scratching etc." Really!!!!!!
Frank A.S.
>Frank A.S. wrote:
>> You vote from your feeling of "empathy and connectedness" for a government which tells you
it's
>> OK to kill Commies, Jews, unborn healthy babies etc.
>
>There's no such creature as an unborn baby.
>Me, I think its diabolically evil to continue to promote population
>growth in an overpopulated world.
>We should be doing everything ethically possible to stop population
>growth. Giving women the right to control their own fertility is an
>essential part of it.
>It is your side that is on the side of evil on this issue. Population
>control is moral and ethical.
You sound like Hitler when he went for the "control" of racial purity. If we ever get to killing
ANY humans for the sake of expediency, you can come and get me first, for I don't want to live in
such a world. Do you?
Doug Schiffer
>
> Doug Schiffer wrote in message <36324CDA...@dreamscape.com>...
> >Frank A.S. wrote:
>
> >> You vote from your feeling of "empathy and connectedness" for a government which tells you
> it's
> >> OK to kill Commies, Jews, unborn healthy babies etc.
> >
> >There's no such creature as an unborn baby.
I notice that you made no reply to this point.
> >Me, I think its diabolically evil to continue to promote population
> >growth in an overpopulated world.
I notice that you made no reply to this point.
How about it Frank - will we have to wait for ecological Armageddon for
your side to admit that it is wrong?
> >We should be doing everything ethically possible to stop population
> >growth. Giving women the right to control their own fertility is an
> >essential part of it.
How about it Frank? Should a woman be able to control her own fertility
or not?
> >It is your side that is on the side of evil on this issue. Population
> >control is moral and ethical.
>
> You sound like Hitler when he went for the "control" of racial purity.
I'm not advocating killing you or any other human being. If your side
has its way, the killing will go on and on without letup. The
starvation and suffering will be terrifying. You and those who think
like you will be totally to blame.
You, in your infinite selfishness, will have sacrificed earth's whole
ecosystem so that you could have the delusion of thinking that you're
going to live forever in a fantasy afterlife.
It's disgusting.
> If we ever get to killing
> ANY humans for the sake of expediency, you can come and get me first, for I don't want to
> live in such a world. Do you?
We already do, and it is your side that closes their eyes to almost all
of it. It's OK to kill an Iraqi teenager for the sake of lower oil
prices, but it's terrible to eliminate an unconscious Caucasian fetus -
a fetus that has never been aware of its own existence and will
therefore miss nothing.
--
Infinite greed and selfishness is _the_ core value of Christianity
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