Does evil exist?
george
questions.
If I can always choose a loving way to see everything and everyone
does evil actually exist? Or would it only exist because I choose to
perceive it?
If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it. Does it
make a sound? It's the same question. If no one chooses to perceive
evil, would it exist or is it only in the mind that wants it?
What does choosing to perceive evil and tragedy entail? If I choose to
perceive it. I'm forced by my choice of perceptions to condemn and
fight against it. So is the evil really outside of my mind as now I'm
fighting and condemning and that is a trait of evil? Or does my CHOICE
actually reflect what is within me since it is my own CHOICE to even
perceive evil or tragedy at all. As ACIM says projection makes
perception and I see what I want to see .
Does anyone want to discuss my logic or conclusions or how they apply
to ACIM? Or we could stay still and enjoy the peace. :)
george
> On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 11:14:03 -0700 (PDT), george
What else would it be as everyone here thinks they live in a world of
perception. Perception has two masters that see everything in opposite
directions. How could evil be more than a mere whim of a frightened
mind? Could God have been overcome and now a loving God isn't loving
but has evil traits instead of loving one? This is the proof the
perception of evil hold. That is why there is always a different way
to look at it that doesn't include evil or tragedy. The loving God
can't have evil traits or he wouldn't be a loving God would he?
For the truth to be true it MUST be true everywhere correct? So it HAS
to be true here also in this world. So wouldn't evil and tragedy have
to be just an illusion and not have any basis in fact or reality?
Wouldn't the only way for this to be accomplished is for evil and
tragedy to be a choice instead of a fact?
Lee
> On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 11:14:03 -0700 (PDT), george
> some way, I would call it a spiritual illness. It's not our normal
> state. But the course in no way denies it is a state we have fallen
> into. In fact it is trying to TELL us that because we can't even SEE
> it, without help. At the same time the course assures us that our
> fall from grace is but a temporary blip in eternity, if even that, and
> we will return to our natural state in due course. That is the state
> in which we are innocent. Not this one.
>
> In this world, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone". And
> not even Jesus would cast one. But he didn't tell the adulteress that
> she had not sinned. He told her to go and sin no more.
>
> IOW, redeem herself.
>
> Deborah (BC)
>
Hi Deborah,
I agree with most of what you've written, and feel that
the best way to think about the topic is in terms of
miscreation, rather than framing it in terms of whether
evil exists.
Personally, I'm very glad that I live in a world where
Amnesty International and other conscientious organizations
and individuals work to assure that waterboarding and other
inhumane acts are bravely exposed and vigorously opposed.
I know that such "confrontational" activism can be the direct
consequence of intense inquiry for Guidance, and can be
performed as the active, peaceful preference over what for
some might be simple fear, denial or 'miracle revisionism.'
I don't believe there's any one answer applied to specific
isssues for everyone.. and I fully allow that George may be
staking out the high ground for himself at this time -- and
while he's at it demonstrating that high ground once again in
ways that very helpfully prod and provoke us all. ;)
Stay with it George! Hope you're doing well yourself Deborah.
My best to all,
~ Lee
Pieter
"george" <georgec...@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:d2dfc4d4-f513-40b7...@y32g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> No one is posting so I thought I'd throw out some thought provoking
> questions.
>
> If I can always choose a loving way to see everything and everyone
> does evil actually exist? Or would it only exist because I choose to
> perceive it?
It does not actually;
it only exists for those who believe in it.
> If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it. Does it
> make a sound?
When matter clashes with matter, then
pressure waves arise in the air - which is
independent of a perceiver being present or not.
> It's the same question. If no one chooses to perceive
> evil, would it exist or is it only in the mind that wants it?
The point is that evil always has to do with
(belief in) bodies and matter. For spirit (life)
the world of the ego does not exist;
For the ego spirit does not exist.
We cannot serve two masters;
if we think we can, we cheat ourselves,
and in fact are serving only the ego.
> What does choosing to perceive evil and tragedy entail? If I choose to
> perceive it. I'm forced by my choice of perceptions to condemn and
> fight against it. So is the evil really outside of my mind as now I'm
> fighting and condemning and that is a trait of evil? Or does my CHOICE
> actually reflect what is within me since it is my own CHOICE to even
> perceive evil or tragedy at all. As ACIM says projection makes
> perception and I see what I want to see.
There can be talk of "evil" only after
having embraced belief in separation.
That's why there is in principle but one
mistake: separation, and one solution:
Atonement.
eluq
"Pieter" <hrdo...@zonnet.nl> wrote in message
news:4ae82c24$0$16038$bf49...@news.tele2.nl...
>
> "george" <georgec...@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
> news:d2dfc4d4-f513-40b7...@y32g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>> No one is posting so I thought I'd throw out some thought provoking
>> questions.
>>
>> If I can always choose a loving way to see everything and everyone
>> does evil actually exist? Or would it only exist because I choose to
>> perceive it?
>
> It does not actually;
> it only exists for those who believe in it.
>
>> If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it. Does it
>> make a sound?
>
> When matter clashes with matter, then
> pressure waves arise in the air - which is
> independent of a perceiver being present or not.
Hmm, there is something outside the perceiver afterall. Guess we've just
been going in circles trying to convince matter that it is just a belief.
Pieter
"eluq" <el...@mtaonline.net> schreef in bericht
news:WrCdnVVc19iMFnXX...@posted.mtasolutions...
>
> "Pieter" <hrdo...@zonnet.nl> wrote in message
> news:4ae82c24$0$16038$bf49...@news.tele2.nl...
>>
>> "george" <georgec...@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
>> news:d2dfc4d4-f513-40b7...@y32g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>>> No one is posting so I thought I'd throw out some thought provoking
>>> questions.
>>>
>>> If I can always choose a loving way to see everything and everyone
>>> does evil actually exist? Or would it only exist because I choose to
>>> perceive it?
>>
>> It does not actually;
>> it only exists for those who believe in it.
>>
>>> If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it. Does it
>>> make a sound?
>>
>> When matter clashes with matter, then
>> pressure waves arise in the air - which is
>> independent of a perceiver being present or not.
>
> Hmm, there is something outside the perceiver afterall.
Yes, by definition. If there was nothing to be
perceived, a perceiver could not exist. Given
the Son's choice to be a perceiver, a world to
be perceived was given (to be made by) him.
It is its *meaning* which is not outside the
perceiver. That's why the nature of the dream
of perceiving depends on the choice of the
sleeping son to listen to either the voice of
separation, or the Voice of the Atonement.
> Guess we've just
> been going in circles trying to convince matter that it is just a belief.
Does it make sense to convince something
that does not exist, that it does not exist?