Re: Dalai Lama and LamuDengzhu._DanzhenjiaCuo
Jim Walsh
(in article <fuf927$uib$1...@news.yaako.com>):
> Dalai is a title which only can be given by Chinese Gov.
Pretty funny. The Chinese Communist Party, officially an atheist party,
claims the right to decide who is the reincarnation of the Dalai Lama.
Actually it would be funny were in not true. One of the reasons for Tibetan
Buddhist anger toward the CCP is that it interferes in their religion.
And, as the CCP freely admits, it does indeed do so.
--
Love, Jim
(I often delete parts of the previous post and I often remove excessive
crossposts.)
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.
and you can become his reincarnation,
so you should die before him and get re-born
in his image, so you know what to do now????
"Jim Walsh" <jimNOwa...@gmNOail.com> wrote in message
news:0001HW.C432454D...@news-east.alibis.com...
Robert Epstein
> On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 19:22:57 +0800, tttt wrote
> (in article <fuf927$uib$1...@news.yaako.com>):
>
>
>>Dalai is a title which only can be given by Chinese Gov.
>
>
> Pretty funny. The Chinese Communist Party, officially an atheist party,
> claims the right to decide who is the reincarnation of the Dalai Lama.
>
> Actually it would be funny were in not true. One of the reasons for Tibetan
> Buddhist anger toward the CCP is that it interferes in their religion.
>
> And, as the CCP freely admits, it does indeed do so.
>
>
my favorite was the recent law passed in China that no Tibetan could
reincarnate without Chinese government permission. It's real!
Robert
- - - - - - - - -
J.Venning
news:0001HW.C432454D...@news-east.alibis.com...
> claims the right to decide who is the reincarnation of the Dalai Lama.
> Actually it would be funny were in not true. One of the reasons for
> Tibetan
> Buddhist anger toward the CCP is that it interferes in their religion.
> And, as the CCP freely admits, it does indeed do so.
>
and run their country.
sb5...@yahoo.com
I doubt CCP believes that.
Jim Walsh
(in article <0YVOj.1431$XY1.460@trndny03>):
yeah. LOL.
Jim Walsh
(in article
<4dc43b72-bd21-4b5f...@t12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>):
> By the way, you really think Dalai Lama is god ?
No. BTW, the DL does not say (or believe) that he is a god. He emphatically
denies being a God.
> I doubt CCP believes that.
The CCP says it has the right to decide who will be the DL. Belief does not
come into it.
>
>
>>
>> Pretty funny. The Chinese Communist Party, officially an atheist party,
>> claims the right to decide who is the reincarnation of the Dalai Lama.
>>
>> Actually it would be funny were in not true. One of the reasons for Tibetan
>> Buddhist anger toward the CCP is that it interferes in their religion.
>>
>> And, as the CCP freely admits, it does indeed do so.
>>
>> --
>> Love, Jim
>> (I often delete parts of the previous post and I often remove excessive
>> crossposts.)
--
Love, Jim
(I often delete parts of the previous post and I often remove excessive
crossposts.)
tttt
<sb5...@yahoo.com>
??????:4dc43b72-bd21-4b5f...@t12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
By the way, you really think Dalai Lama is god ?
I doubt CCP believes that.
No god in Buddhism.
I'm not CCP,
I think god is fake/myth. Human created many God.
Dalai Lama is not the one and only Buddhist leader in Tibet.
There are other 2 leaders Banchan's erdenl and Karmapa.
Robert Epstein
> On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 14:46:12 +0800, sb5...@yahoo.com wrote
> (in article
> <4dc43b72-bd21-4b5f...@t12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>):
>
>
>>By the way, you really think Dalai Lama is god ?
>
>
> No. BTW, the DL does not say (or believe) that he is a god. He emphatically
> denies being a God.
>
>
>>I doubt CCP believes that.
>
>
> The CCP says it has the right to decide who will be the DL. Belief does not
> come into it.
That is true control-freak-dom, when you need to rule over that which
you don't believe exists.
Robert
- - - - - - - - - -
Robert Epstein
None of them are Chinese or should be chosen by China.
tttt
dalai lama is a political monk
dalai lama= top administration ruler + buddhist leader
Do you agree this combination?
Age is changing,
Dalai can't be a top administration officer anymore. but, he seems reject to
admit this fact.
Nowadays
Chinese gov certificate to Dalai is a holy ritual.withou this certification
he lacks validity to face all his follower.
It calls traditional!
about who will be chosen as next Dalai is not a big problem to all circles.
The problem is who will teach/influence the kid
Dalai lama betrayed his country, he and his group lose this right .
We will let those Lama group who love OUR country--China to choose next
Dalai accord to all traditionals.
Dalai and his group know their very situation very clearly.
They are utterly discomfiting,
They are death struggling.
They lost minimum wits and senses, they even threaten their compatriot with
death.
=----
tttt
"Robert Epstein" <vze2...@verizon.net> >
> None of them are Chinese or should be chosen by China.
>
> Robert
>
> - - - - - - - - -
You are too ridiculous!!!
ltl...@hotmail.com
> Jim Walsh wrote:
> > On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 14:46:12 +0800, sb5...@yahoo.com wrote
> > (in article
>
> >>By the way, you really think Dalai Lama is god ?
>
> > No. BTW, the DL does not say (or believe) that he is a god. He emphatically
> > denies being a God.
>
> >>I doubt CCP believes that.
>
> > The CCP says it has the right to decide who will be the DL. Belief does not
> > come into it.
>
> That is true control-freak-dom, when you need to rule over that which
> you don't believe exists.
No. Just the opposite. For simple reason. If the DL and every DL are
self-evident god-kings, then China should have no business in it. To
the degree that no one is and no one can be born a god-king, the DL is
just the title of a political posiiton of powe in the eye of an
atheist government. Political position of power is naturally the
domain of the governemnt. The underneath principle of the Chinee
government's involvement is "All man are created equal." Well, if this
concept is difficult for some westerners, they need to get used to
it.
>
> Robert
>
> - - - - - - - - - -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Used To Be Your Bellman
"tttt" <Confucianism_t...@pursuer.com> wrote in message
news:fuhiln$2h2$1...@news.yaako.com...
LOL!!!
Poor old Robert, suggesting that Tibetan leaders should be Tibetan.
Ho ho ho ha ha ha. That ridiculous Robert! Tibetan leaders should be
Tibetan!! That's so funny!!!
How could he be so silly?
The Chinese would never allow such a thing.
--
BWZ Student
Derek
Raymond
The Chinese government is merely practicing the tradition of Chinese
dynasty in respecting the backward, superstitious, and ridiculous
Tibetan religious custom. When the time is right, the complete
eradication of Lamaism should be one deciding step to move Tibetan
people into the modern world. Under current new situation, I think
it's necessary to speed up that process for the healthy development of
Tibetan society. How to outlaw Lamaism should be a very good question
for all compassionate Buddhists to think about.
Jim Walsh
(in article
<6d43011b-668e-497d...@c19g2000prf.googlegroups.com>):
>....The underneath principle of the Chinese
> government's involvement is "All man are created equal." Well, if this
> concept is difficult for some westerners, they need to get used to it.
When will "all men" in China be free to vote?
The real principle underlying the CCP government is "He who controls the gun,
controls the government." Mao said that.
Jim Walsh
(in article <g8to04t51e7pdfqgk...@4ax.com>):
> On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 07:58:06 GMT, Robert Epstein
> <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> That is true control-freak-dom, when you need to rule over that which
>> you don't believe exists.
>
> The Chinese government is merely practicing the tradition of Chinese
> dynasty in respecting the backward, superstitious, and ridiculous
> Tibetan religious custom....
Disrespecting you mean.
RussellT
news:6d43011b-668e-497d...@c19g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>No. Just the opposite. For simple reason. If the DL and every DL are
>self-evident god-kings, then China should have no business in it. To
>the degree that no one is and no one can be born a god-king, the DL is
>just the title of a political posiiton of powe in the eye of an
>atheist government. Political position of power is naturally the
>domain of the governemnt. The underneath principle of the Chinee
>government's involvement is "All man are created equal." Well, if this
>concept is difficult for some westerners, they need to get used to
<it.
That is about as twisted and perverted as it gets! Atheist governments have
a real fear of what they cannot control, believing it to be a threat to
their power. However, spirituality is inherent in every human, and cannot
really be suppressed permanently. In China today, all men are created equal,
except CCP rulers are more equal that others.
ltl...@hotmail.com
> <ltl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:6d43011b-668e-497d...@c19g2000prf.googlegroups.com...>No. Just the opposite. For simple reason. If the DL and every DL are
> >self-evident god-kings, then China should have no business in it. To
> >the degree that no one is and no one can be born a god-king, the DL is
> >just the title of a political posiiton of powe in the eye of an
> >atheist government. Political position of power is naturally the
> >domain of the governemnt. The underneath principle of the Chinee
> >government's involvement is "All man are created equal." Well, if this
> >concept is difficult for some westerners, they need to get used to
>
> <it.
>
> That is about as twisted and perverted as it gets! Atheist governments have
> a real fear of what they cannot control, believing it to be a threat to
> their power.
I cannot answer the above because I don't know what you mean. And I
don't know how your view on atheist governments makes my above
reasoning twisted and perverted.
> However, spirituality is inherent in every human, and cannot
> really be suppressed permanently.
This is exacting my view. In contrast, many 'free tibet' supporters
think only Tibetans are spiritual.
> In China today, all men are created equal, except CCP rulers are more equal that others.
Don't know in what way CCP rulers are created more equal. If you
think HJT was born the head of the Chinese government like the DL was
born the god-king, you are quite ignorant.
jim...@guide-to-distance-learning.com
evil.
After traveling to China and asking many Chinese how they feel about
their government, I found that practically all of them are quite happy
with it. Although I didn't go to Tibet, I imagine that most Tibetans
are happy with their government as well.
Why wouldn't they be? They have the freedom to practice their
religion, but more importantly, they have the freedom to not practice
religion if they choose. In the past, young boys were selected to be
monks whether they wanted to be or not. They were generally used as
menial servants as well as homosexual sex slaves.
With the Chinese occupation, thousands of individuals freely chose to
leave the monastic lives they had been forced into.
OD
How can you possibly support a statement like that?
Robert Epstein
Being thoroughly hypnotized, you do not understand the nature of oppression.
Robert Epstein
Really? Are the Tibetans the same race as the Chinese? Has China
always claimed Tibet as part of its own country? Tibet was an
independent nation for thousands of years, before China grabbed it.
China has similarly grabbed other independent nations - Mongolia,
Manchuria - the list goes on; and then pretends they were always part of
China.
You are brainwashed.
Robert Epstein
> On Apr 21, 3:58 am, Robert Epstein <vze25...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>Jim Walsh wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 14:46:12 +0800, sb5...@yahoo.com wrote
>>>(in article
>>><4dc43b72-bd21-4b5f-9d3a-3b154a61e...@t12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>):
>>
>>>>By the way, you really think Dalai Lama is god ?
>>
>>>No. BTW, the DL does not say (or believe) that he is a god. He emphatically
>>>denies being a God.
>>
>>>>I doubt CCP believes that.
>>
>>>The CCP says it has the right to decide who will be the DL. Belief does not
>>>come into it.
>>
>>That is true control-freak-dom, when you need to rule over that which
>>you don't believe exists.
>
>
> No. Just the opposite. For simple reason. If the DL and every DL are
> self-evident god-kings, then China should have no business in it. To
> the degree that no one is and no one can be born a god-king, the DL is
> just the title of a political posiiton of powe in the eye of an
> atheist government. Political position of power is naturally the
> domain of the governemnt. The underneath principle of the Chinee
> government's involvement is "All man are created equal."
Well we have an additional principle we like, which is "All men should
be free to the extent that they do not directly harm another person."
The fact that China imprisons anyone who dissents or calls for change or
tries to assert their rights, should show you something if you open your
eyes.
So your great principle is "All men are created to be equally oppressed
by the tyrannical government." Congratulations! You are right in the
tradition of Hitler, Mussolini, and all other tyrants. Enjoy.
jim...@guide-to-distance-learning.com
says at the following website:
http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html
"Young Tibetan boys were regularly taken from their peasant families
and brought into the monasteries to be trained as monks. Once there,
they were bonded for life. Tashì-Tsering, a monk, reports that it was
common for peasant children to be sexually mistreated in the
monasteries. He himself was a victim of repeated rape, beginning at
age nine."
You can also read "The Struggle for Modern Tibet: The Autobiography of
Tashi Tsering", get it from Amazon at:
It says "As a 13-year-old member of the Dalai Lama's personal dance
troupe, he was frequently whipped or beaten by teachers for minor
infractions. A heterosexual, he escaped by becoming a drombo, or
homosexual passive partner and sex-toy, for a well-connected monk."
Robert Epstein
I mean - look at Britain. You guys let all your colonies go...Well,
maybe they were sort of violently extracted, but still.....
Robert Epstein
Yeah, I guess "healthy development" would mean that there are no more
Tibetans, only Chinese, living there in their place. Is the forced
marriage program going well there?
OD
> Which statement do you want support for? This is what Michael Parenti
> says at the following website:
Obviously this one.
"In contrast, many 'free tibet' supporters think only Tibetans are
spiritual."
> http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html
>
> "Young Tibetan boys were regularly taken from their peasant families
> and brought into the monasteries to be trained as monks. Once there,
> they were bonded for life. Tashě-Tsering, a monk, reports that it was
ltl...@hotmail.com
rst0wxyz
> On Apr 21, 3:58 am, Robert Epstein <vze25...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > That is true control-freak-dom, when you need to rule over that which
> > you don't believe exists.
>
> No. Just the opposite. For simple reason. If the DL and every DL are
> self-evident god-kings, then China should have no business in it. To
> the degree that no one is and no one can be born a god-king, the DL is
> just the title of a political posiiton of powe in the eye of an
> atheist government. Political position of power is naturally the
> domain of the governemnt. The underneath principle of the Chinee
> government's involvement is "All man are created equal."
Thomas Jefferson was only talking about himself and his peers when he
wrote those words. He certainly was not talking about his slaves.
That shows American hypocrisy from the very beginning of American
politics.
RussellT
news:23848e80-c640-4771...@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
>Which statement do you want support for? This is what Michael Parenti
>says at the following website:
>http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html
>"Young Tibetan boys were regularly taken from their peasant families
>and brought into the monasteries to be trained as monks. Once there,
>they were bonded for life. Tashě-Tsering, a monk, reports that it was
>common for peasant children to be sexually mistreated in the
>monasteries. He himself was a victim of repeated rape, beginning at
>age nine."
>You can also read "The Struggle for Modern Tibet: The Autobiography of
>Tashi Tsering", get it from Amazon at:
>It says "As a 13-year-old member of the Dalai Lama's personal dance
>troupe, he was frequently whipped or beaten by teachers for minor
>infractions. A heterosexual, he escaped by becoming a drombo, or
>homosexual passive partner and sex-toy, for a well-connected monk."
That existed in a previous era, at a time when equal or worse ills existed
in the society as a whole. Society evolves and religious institutions can
evolve also. Buddhism exists in prosperous countries of east Asia today,
without those ills. I could look at Thailand, for example, where Buddhism is
a main part of their culture, and the government is not threatened at all by
that. The temples also provide a high education standard, recognized in the
country, and no one is bound for life. Single moms have a good place for
their children during the school years. They can learn meditation and
morals.
My point, already stated, is religious institution progressed just like
society. To compare present society to a previous era of religious
institutions is unfair, and deceptive at best.
And don't forget the bigger picture: China indoctrinates young people in
their education system to be atheist, and that religion was just another
historic method of control, and in the end, man is just an animal, and no
more has a soul that a dog does. This told to me by people who came from
China.
I don't debate the religion as historic control institution, but
spirituality is not dependent on membership in a religion.
rst0wxyz
> On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 17:37:10 +0800, ltl...@hotmail.com wrote
> (in article
>
> >....The underneath principle of the Chinese
> > government's involvement is "All man are created equal." Well, if this
> > concept is difficult for some westerners, they need to get used to it.
>
> When will "all men" in China be free to vote?
>
> The real principle underlying the CCP government is "He who controls the gun,
> controls the government." Mao said that.
Isn't this also true of the United States?
Might is right.
We have the might.
We have the right?
OD
Wow. Once again you take one comment and just run to the wildest
conclusions with it. If I were to say the Chinese were deeply spiritual
people, would my meaning be that only Chinese are deeply spiritual?
OD
I'm sure you must know that Jefferson tried to abolish slavery.
OD
Also, do you have some other evidence other than this article that Erik
Echolm is a free Tibet supporter? Cause there is nothing in this article to
support that position.
rst0wxyz
That was why there are so many Black people with the family name of
Jefferson today.
jim...@guide-to-distance-learning.com
existed
> in the society as a whole. Society evolves and religious institutions can
> evolve also. Buddhism exists in prosperous countries of east Asia today,
> without those ills. I could look at Thailand, for example, where Buddhism is
> a main part of their culture, and the government is not threatened at all by
> that. The temples also provide a high education standard, recognized in the
> country, and no one is bound for life. Single moms have a good place for
> their children during the school years. They can learn meditation and
> morals.
>
> My point, already stated, is religious institution progressed just like
> society. To compare present society to a previous era of religious
> institutions is unfair, and deceptive at best.
>
> And don't forget the bigger picture: China indoctrinates young people in
> their education system to be atheist, and that religion was just another
> historic method of control, and in the end, man is just an animal, and no
> more has a soul that a dog does. This told to me by people who came from
> China.
>
> I don't debate the religion as historic control institution, but
> spirituality is not dependent on membership in a religion.
The Chinese plan to invest 100 billion yuan a year in Tibet for the
development of schools and other infrastructure. What good would it be
to take that away from the Tibetans? I don't think the Dalai Lama can
offer the same.
I would think that in China, the children are being taught to believe
in the separation of church and state. rather than to deny the
existence of God. In the United States, we believe this to be a good
thing.
I've been to China and have met many Chinese. They all seem to feel
quite free to practice whatever religion they choose, mostly Buddhist
or Muslim, mostly nominal, or to not practice religion at all.
The important question to ask is, why is the western media fanning
this flame of conflict? I think the global corporations, with their
headquarters in London, which finance the western media, want to
create a conflict between China and the US in order to weaken them.
This will allow them to more easily dominate our nations.
Instead, the US and China should build a stronger relationship in this
time of crisis. There is nothing inherently wrong with global
corporations, but they should be subject to our nations, rather than
the alternative.
Our financial system is collapsing, and a new international agreement
will be necessary with the Chinese. We need a fixed exchange rate
system, or the dollar will continue to weaken, which could seriously
harm both the US and the Chinese.
OD
The point still stands. Jefferson tried to abolish slavery.
oxtail
If a rich woman says that she can raise children well,
should we allow her to go around grabbing any child
she wants in a poor neighborhood?
--
oxtail
ltl...@hotmail.com
Well, welcome to the wrold to "free tibet." The accusation from the
"free tibet" is this. Han people move into Tibet and their presense
dilute the spiritual culture there. The underlying assumption is that
spirituality is somewhat limited to the tibetans.
ltl...@hotmail.com
When Tibet was mentioned, westerners journalists customary added
"China invaded Tibet at 1950." No western journalist has yet
acknoledged the fact that tibet is rightfully part of China.
tttt
Its top administrator is Tibetan.
"Used To Be Your Bellman" <no...@fakeisp.com> 写入消息新闻:e-adnY_ytJVV5ZHV...@mailbox.co.uk...
>
> "tttt" <Confucianism_t...@pursuer.com> wrote in message
> news:fuhiln$2h2$1...@news.yaako.com...
>>
>> "Robert Epstein" <vze2...@verizon.net> >
>>
>>
>>> None of them are Chinese or should be chosen by China.
>>>
>>> Robert
>>>
>>> - - - - - - - - -
>>
>> You are too ridiculous!!!
>
> LOL!!!
>
> Poor old Robert, suggesting that Tibetan leaders should be Tibetan. Ho ho
> ho ha ha ha. That ridiculous Robert! Tibetan leaders should be Tibetan!!
> That's so funny!!!
>
> How could he be so silly?
>
> The Chinese would never allow such a thing.
>
> --
> BWZ Student
> Derek
>
jim...@guide-to-distance-learning.com
> should we allow her to go around grabbing any child
> she wants in a poor neighborhood?
>
> --
> oxtail
No, but if the children agree to be raised by the rich woman it should
be allowed. When the Chinese liberated the outlying regions of Tibet,
the Tibetan serfs celebrated by burning the burdensome loan papers
that the ruling Lamas and nobles had enforced upon them.
oxtail
> If a rich woman says that she can raise children well,
>> should we allow her to go around grabbing any child she wants in a poor
>> neighborhood?
>>
>
> No, but if the children agree to be raised by the rich woman it should
> be allowed. When the Chinese liberated the outlying regions of Tibet,
> the Tibetan serfs celebrated by burning the burdensome loan papers that
> the ruling Lamas and nobles had enforced upon them.
Time for a national referendum?
--
oxtail
Raymond
The real question for a Buddhist should be, does Buddhist endorse the
meat eating, alcohol drinking, womanizing, and money gambling Tibetan
Lamaism?
Raymond
<jimNOwa...@gmNOail.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:27:23 +0800, Raymond wrote
>(in article <g8to04t51e7pdfqgk...@4ax.com>):
>
>> On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 07:58:06 GMT, Robert Epstein
>> <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>> That is true control-freak-dom, when you need to rule over that which
>>> you don't believe exists.
>>
>> The Chinese government is merely practicing the tradition of Chinese
>> dynasty in respecting the backward, superstitious, and ridiculous
>> Tibetan religious custom....
>
>Disrespecting you mean.
That would be the right approach I hoped for.
xi
to athletes, terrorifing innocents, etc. is that Tibetan buddism?
oxtail
Are you a Buddhist?
You sound like a communist crony.
If you at least believe in democracy,
you should let the Tibetan people decide for themselves
and tell the invaders to get out.
If you are a Buddhist,
tell us what kind of tradition you follow
and what precepts you keep.
BTW kindly update your nomenclature.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibetan_Buddhism
--
oxtail
xi
You sound like a communist crony.
It must be his Beijinger accent.
> If you at least believe in democracy,
> you should let the Tibetan people decide for themselves
> and tell the invaders to get out.
-----------------------------------
Yes, they already did in 1951 and 1959, Americans and its CIA is not
longer over there. Also the aristocrats left and the monks cannot
enslave peopl, cannot torture them and finally let them die "at the
will of god" when they are sick or too old.
On Apr 21, 10:15 pm, oxtail <oxt...@zen.org> wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:46:41 -0400, Raymond wrote:
> > On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:51:25 GMT, Robert Epstein <vze25...@verizon.net>
oxtail
> I would add murder, burning buildings and cars, commiting agressions to
> athletes, terrorifing innocents, etc. is that Tibetan buddism?
No.
To help the Tibetan people practice their Buddhism properly,
all the Chinese people should get out of Tibet immediately.
--
oxtail
oxtail
> Are you a Buddhist?
> You sound like a communist crony.
> -------------------------------------- It must be his Beijinger accent.
>
>> If you at least believe in democracy, you should let the Tibetan people
>> decide for themselves and tell the invaders to get out.
> -----------------------------------
> Yes, they already did in 1951 and 1959, Americans and its CIA is not
> longer over there. Also the aristocrats left and the monks cannot
> enslave peopl, cannot torture them and finally let them die "at the will
> of god" when they are sick or too old.
>
How about a national referendum?
--
oxtail
Used To Be Your Bellman
> Tibet is an autonomous province already.
> Its top administrator is Tibetan.
>
>
Is his name Quisling?
But besides that - allow me to compliment you on your much improved
use of English. Wow what an improvement - Spelling 10/10; Grammar
10/10; Making sense 10/10.
This can only mean one thing - our old tttt has been disappeared and
we have a new tttt. Such is the unforgiving nature of the apparatus.
But it does cause a worry. What's happened to the dear old tttt? I
do hope you haven't done anything horrible to him. I know he was a
bit silly saying the Dalai Lama loved drinking blood and that - but
nobody was particularly bothered. It was just silly that's all. He
doesn't deserve being re-educated in prison camp.
But pray tell - what is your name?
--
BWZ Student
Derek
xi
ROFL
ltl...@hotmail.com
If you are talking about Tibet, the historical fact is that the
Tibetan leadership incluidng the DL skip town. China was left holding
the bag. To use your analogy. a child was dumped to the lap of the
rich woman.
>
> --
> oxtail- Hide quoted text -
Raymond
jim...@guide-to-distance-learning.com wrote:
>Before traveling to China, I thought that the Chinese government was
>evil.
>
>After traveling to China and asking many Chinese how they feel about
>their government, I found that practically all of them are quite happy
>with it. Although I didn't go to Tibet, I imagine that most Tibetans
>are happy with their government as well.
>
>Why wouldn't they be? They have the freedom to practice their
>religion, but more importantly, they have the freedom to not practice
>religion if they choose. In the past, young boys were selected to be
>monks whether they wanted to be or not. They were generally used as
>menial servants as well as homosexual sex slaves.
>
>With the Chinese occupation, thousands of individuals freely chose to
>leave the monastic lives they had been forced into.
Thank you. It's nice to hear the voice of reason from a westerner.
xi
oxtail
A committee?
--
oxtail
Raymond
>On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:46:41 -0400, Raymond wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:51:25 GMT, Robert Epstein <vze2...@verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>The CCP says it has the right to decide who will be the DL. Belief
>>>>>>does not come into it.
>>>>>
>>>>>That is true control-freak-dom, when you need to rule over that which
>>>>>you don't believe exists.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The Chinese government is merely practicing the tradition of Chinese
>>>> dynasty in respecting the backward, superstitious, and ridiculous
>>>> Tibetan religious custom. When the time is right, the complete
>>>> eradication of Lamaism should be one deciding step to move Tibetan
>>>> people into the modern world. Under current new situation, I think
>>>> it's necessary to speed up that process for the healthy development of
>>>> Tibetan society. How to outlaw Lamaism should be a very good question
>>>> for all compassionate Buddhists to think about.
>>>
>>>Yeah, I guess "healthy development" would mean that there are no more
>>>Tibetans, only Chinese, living there in their place. Is the forced
>>>marriage program going well there?
>>
>> The real question for a Buddhist should be, does Buddhist endorse the
>> meat eating, alcohol drinking, womanizing, and money gambling Tibetan
>> Lamaism?
>>
>
>Are you a Buddhist?
Why asking me? Why not asking the Lamas? Lamas are allowed to eat
meat, drink alcohol, having sex, and gambling for money. Do you think
they are qualified to be called "Buddhist" monks?
Raymond
Sure, if you agree to fund it. 10 billion euros for 20 years, in the
twenty first year, we will have a referendum in Tibet.
oxtail
Thank you.
Better get out fast
before the sickening Tibetan Buddhism contaminates
the middle kingdom proper.
--
oxtail
oxtail
Got a television set?
We all know the Chinese invaded Tibet.
How about a national referendum?
--
oxtail
Raymond
wrote:
>I would add murder, burning buildings and cars, commiting agressions
>to athletes, terrorifing innocents, etc. is that Tibetan buddism?
Yes. There are just too many of those evil traits. Idol worshiping a
godking should also be one of those evil traits. It's definitely
something for the western buddhists to think about. They should be
shocked to find out they have been supporting the worst enemy of
Gautama Buddha.
>
>On Apr 21, 9:46?pm, Raymond <ni...@nizuy.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:51:25 GMT, Robert Epstein
>>
>>
>>
>> <vze25...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >>>>The CCP says it has the right to decide who will be the DL. Belief does not
>> >>>>come into it.
>>
>> >>>That is true control-freak-dom, when you need to rule over that which
>> >>>you don't believe exists.
>>
>> >> The Chinese government is merely practicing the tradition of Chinese
>> >> dynasty in respecting the backward, superstitious, and ridiculous
>> >> Tibetan religious custom. When the time is right, the complete
>> >> eradication of Lamaism should be one deciding step to move Tibetan
>> >> people into the modern world. Under current new situation, I think
>> >> it's necessary to speed up that process for the healthy development of
>> >> Tibetan society. How to outlaw Lamaism should be a very good question
>> >> for all compassionate Buddhists to think about.
>>
>> >Yeah, I guess "healthy development" would mean that there are no more
>> >Tibetans, only Chinese, living there in their place. ?Is the forced
oxtail
Why not indeed.
Let's start a petition.
As I'm against it, it's all yours.
Why don't you let the Tibetan people decide?
--
oxtail
oxtail
You really should listen to the Tibetan people.
--
oxtail
oxtail
Too cheap to pay for it yourself?
Is that what you think of your people's political freedom?
Or are you afraid of something?
--
oxtail
xi
Let us burn buildings, cars, let us murder a few dozens of innocent
citizens, let us call you criminal because you use police to stop
criminals, let us commit agressions worldwide and let us tell that you
are guilty.
OK? I hope you offer yourself as one of the first victims, of course.
xi
oxtail
> On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 13:07:52 -0700 (PDT), xi <xieu...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>I would add murder, burning buildings and cars, commiting agressions to
>>athletes, terrorifing innocents, etc. is that Tibetan buddism?
>
> Yes. There are just too many of those evil traits. Idol worshiping a
> godking should also be one of those evil traits. It's definitely
> something for the western buddhists to think about. They should be
> shocked to find out they have been supporting the worst enemy of Gautama
> Buddha.
>
Is that why you are exploiting them?
--
oxtail
oxtail
> Nah, let us do as Westerners do when they fund a group.
>
> Let us burn buildings, cars, let us murder a few dozens of innocent
> citizens, let us call you criminal because you use police to stop
> criminals, let us commit agressions worldwide and let us tell that you
> are guilty.
>
> OK? I hope you offer yourself as one of the first victims, of course.
>
Walk away before you all become Buddhists.
That happened many times before.
--
oxtail
xi
oxtail
> I do and I did, probably more Tibetan people as you do.
Wonderful.
If you listen to them carefully,
you might become a Buddhist soon.
Good luck.
--
oxtail
xi
to Da Lie Lama on TV. Do you have a rough idea about how many buddists
are in China and how many of them follow the Da Lie Lama?
oxtail
> You have been told that Chinese invaded Tibet. And puppets believe it.
Let's leave the past alone and look at the present.
Nothing to be afraid of a national referendum?
Go for it.
--
oxtail
xi
shame for buddhism.
oxtail
> Obviously your knowledge about buddhism does not go beyond your heard to
> Da Lie Lama on TV. Do you have a rough idea about how many buddists are
> in China and how many of them follow the Da Lie Lama?
Ever hear of Jesus
and how his followers were persecuted by the Roman Empire?
Do you know what happened to it?
Better get out of Tibet fast,
before Buddhism becomes the national religion of China.
It has been almost there many times already.
--
oxtail
oxtail
> The more radical enemies of the Da Lie Lama are the buddhists. He is a
> shame for buddhism.
I'm beginning to think
you secretly want to make China
into a Buddhist country.
--
oxtail
Raymond
I do. I just don't listen to the former oppressor of the Tibetan
people whom you ironically believe to speak for the Tibetan people.
Your stupidity is beyond the human kind.
Robert Epstein
> Before traveling to China, I thought that the Chinese government was
> evil.
>
> After traveling to China and asking many Chinese how they feel about
> their government, I found that practically all of them are quite happy
> with it. Although I didn't go to Tibet, I imagine that most Tibetans
> are happy with their government as well.
>
> Why wouldn't they be? They have the freedom to practice their
> religion, but more importantly, they have the freedom to not practice
> religion if they choose. In the past, young boys were selected to be
> monks whether they wanted to be or not. They were generally used as
> menial servants as well as homosexual sex slaves.
>
> With the Chinese occupation, thousands of individuals freely chose to
> leave the monastic lives they had been forced into.
Yes, brother, I hope you are enjoying your "prolonged stay" in China.
I am sure the Tibetans who are protesting, or living in exile, must be
some sort of deviant types that can not understand the beauty and peace
of having the temples destroyed, the ancient manuscripts burned, and the
"freedom of religion" practiced without their religious figures and
under the watchful eyes of Chinese guards. I'm sure it is also lovely
to be informed that you will be marrying a Chinese citizen who is
brought in for that purpose, so that you can make Chinese babies and
destroy the Tibetan bloodline. What a beautiful time these ungrateful
Tibetans are missing!
Be well,
Robert
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
oxtail
I have nothing against your effort
to turn China into a Buddhist country
by integrating as many Buddhists as possible.
But you really should do it slowly and peacefully.
--
oxtail
oxtail
Who are we to say no
if the Chinese wanna make their country
into a Buddhist one?
But they really should do so
without using so much force.
--
oxtail
Robert Epstein
> Which statement do you want support for? This is what Michael Parenti
> says at the following website:
>
> http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html
>
> "Young Tibetan boys were regularly taken from their peasant families
> and brought into the monasteries to be trained as monks. Once there,
> they were bonded for life. Tashě-Tsering, a monk, reports that it was
> common for peasant children to be sexually mistreated in the
> monasteries. He himself was a victim of repeated rape, beginning at
> age nine."
>
> You can also read "The Struggle for Modern Tibet: The Autobiography of
> Tashi Tsering", get it from Amazon at:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Struggle-Modern-Tibet-Autobiography-Tsering/dp/0765605090/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208792407&sr=1-4
>
> It says "As a 13-year-old member of the Dalai Lama's personal dance
> troupe, he was frequently whipped or beaten by teachers for minor
> infractions. A heterosexual, he escaped by becoming a drombo, or
> homosexual passive partner and sex-toy, for a well-connected monk."
The necessary support would be more than one statistic and some
corroborating evidence.
Robert
= = = = = = =
Peter Terpstra
<6d43011b-668e-497d...@c19g2000prf.googlegroups.com> :
> No. Just the opposite. For simple reason. If the DL and every DL are
> self-evident god-kings, then China should have no business in it. To
> the degree that no one is and no one can be born a god-king, the DL is
> just the title of a political posiiton of powe in the eye of an
> atheist government. Political position of power is naturally the
> domain of the governemnt. The underneath principle of the Chinee
> government's involvement is "All man are created equal." Well, if this
> concept is difficult for some westerners, they need to get used to
> it.
That's one view and now try to understand the view you don't like.
Kind regards,
Peter
--
mailto:pe...@dharma.dyndns.biz
Robert Epstein
> On Apr 21, 2:37 am, "ltl...@hotmail.com" <ltl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Apr 21, 3:58 am, Robert Epstein <vze25...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>>That is true control-freak-dom, when you need to rule over that which
>>>you don't believe exists.
>>
>>No. Just the opposite. For simple reason. If the DL and every DL are
>>self-evident god-kings, then China should have no business in it. To
>>the degree that no one is and no one can be born a god-king, the DL is
>>just the title of a political posiiton of powe in the eye of an
>>atheist government. Political position of power is naturally the
>>domain of the governemnt. The underneath principle of the Chinee
>>government's involvement is "All man are created equal."
>
>
> Thomas Jefferson was only talking about himself and his peers when he
> wrote those words. He certainly was not talking about his slaves.
> That shows American hypocrisy from the very beginning of American
> politics.
We also fought a war and killed thousands to change that situation. Are
you ready to do the same to free the political prisoners and forced
laborers?
Robert Epstein
> On Apr 21, 9:55 am, "OD" <Ya...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>rst0wxyz wrote:
>>
>>>On Apr 21, 2:37 am, "ltl...@hotmail.com" <ltl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Apr 21, 3:58 am, Robert Epstein <vze25...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>That is true control-freak-dom, when you need to rule over that
>>>>>which you don't believe exists.
>>
>>>>No. Just the opposite. For simple reason. If the DL and every DL are
>>>>self-evident god-kings, then China should have no business in it. To
>>>>the degree that no one is and no one can be born a god-king, the DL
>>>>is just the title of a political posiiton of powe in the eye of an
>>>>atheist government. Political position of power is naturally the
>>>>domain of the governemnt. The underneath principle of the Chinee
>>>>government's involvement is "All man are created equal."
>>
>>>Thomas Jefferson was only talking about himself and his peers when he
>>>wrote those words. He certainly was not talking about his slaves.
>>>That shows American hypocrisy from the very beginning of American
>>>politics.
>>
>>I'm sure you must know that Jefferson tried to abolish slavery.
>
>
> That was why there are so many Black people with the family name of
> Jefferson today.
Wow, it's not easy to be that stupid; you must work hard at it.
Robert Epstein
> On Apr 21, 12:50 pm, "OD" <Ya...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>ltl...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>On Apr 21, 11:29 am, "OD" <Ya...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>ltl...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Apr 21, 9:33 am, "RussellT" <RussellDTur...@telus.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>><ltl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>>>>>>news:6d43011b-668e-497d...@c19g2000prf.googlegroups.com...>No.
>>>>>>Just the opposite. For simple reason. If the DL and every DL are
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>self-evident god-kings, then China should have no business in it.
>>>>>>>To the degree that no one is and no one can be born a god-king,
>>>>>>>the DL is just the title of a political posiiton of powe in the
>>>>>>>eye of an atheist government. Political position of power is
>>>>>>>naturally the domain of the governemnt. The underneath principle
>>>>>>>of the Chinee government's involvement is "All man are created
>>>>>>>equal." Well, if this concept is difficult for some westerners,
>>>>>>>they need to get used to
>>
>>>>>><it.
>>
>>>>>>That is about as twisted and perverted as it gets! Atheist
>>>>>>governments have
>>>>>>a real fear of what they cannot control, believing it to be a
>>>>>>threat to
>>>>>>their power.
>>
>>>>>I cannot answer the above because I don't know what you mean. And I
>>>>>don't know how your view on atheist governments makes my above
>>>>>reasoning twisted and perverted.
>>
>>>>>>However, spirituality is inherent in every human, and cannot
>>>>>>really be suppressed permanently.
>>
>>>>>This is exacting my view. In contrast, many 'free tibet' supporters
>>>>>think only Tibetans are spiritual.
>>
>>>>How can you possibly support a statement like that?
>>
>>>http://groups.google.com/group/talk.politics.tibet/msg/0e81c24d5f2454d2?
>>
>>Wow. Once again you take one comment and just run to the wildest
>>conclusions with it. If I were to say the Chinese were deeply spiritual
>>people, would my meaning be that only Chinese are deeply spiritual?
>
>
> Well, welcome to the wrold to "free tibet." The accusation from the
> "free tibet" is this. Han people move into Tibet and their presense
> dilute the spiritual culture there. The underlying assumption is that
> spirituality is somewhat limited to the tibetans.
Nobody likes to be raped.
Robert
= = = = = = = =
Robert Epstein
>>Also, do you have some other evidence other than this article that Erik
>>Echolm is a free Tibet supporter? Cause there is nothing in this article to
>>support that position.
>
>
> When Tibet was mentioned, westerners journalists customary added
> "China invaded Tibet at 1950." No western journalist has yet
> acknoledged the fact that tibet is rightfully part of China.
Because it is not. It is a separate people in a separate nation. How
far does China extend? As far as it wants to go?
Raymond
Exploiting whom? The former slave owners? What do they have that I
need? The lustful carnal desire or the evil unforgivable karma for
ruling over the Tibetan people?
Here is a picture of Tibetan slave with his master. Can you recognize
who is who?
Robert Epstein
> Tibet is an autonomous province already.
> Its top administrator is Tibetan.
It is customary on most plantations to select a slave to coordinate and
direct the other slaves.
Robert
= = = = = = = = =
>
>
>
> "Used To Be Your Bellman" <no...@fakeisp.com> 写入消息新闻:e-adnY_ytJVV5ZHV...@mailbox.co.uk...
>
>>"tttt" <Confucianism_t...@pursuer.com> wrote in message
>>news:fuhiln$2h2$1...@news.yaako.com...
>>
>>>"Robert Epstein" <vze2...@verizon.net> >
>>>
>>>
>>>>None of them are Chinese or should be chosen by China.
>>>>
>>>>Robert
>>>>
>>>>- - - - - - - - -
>>>
>>>You are too ridiculous!!!
>>
>>LOL!!!
>>
>>Poor old Robert, suggesting that Tibetan leaders should be Tibetan. Ho ho
>>ho ha ha ha. That ridiculous Robert! Tibetan leaders should be Tibetan!!
>>That's so funny!!!
>>
>>How could he be so silly?
>>
>>The Chinese would never allow such a thing.
>>
>>--
>>BWZ Student
>>Derek
>>
>
>
>
Robert Epstein
> If a rich woman says that she can raise children well,
>
>>should we allow her to go around grabbing any child
>>she wants in a poor neighborhood?
>>
>>--
>>oxtail
>
>
> No, but if the children agree to be raised by the rich woman it should
> be allowed. When the Chinese liberated the outlying regions of Tibet,
> the Tibetan serfs celebrated by burning the burdensome loan papers
> that the ruling Lamas and nobles had enforced upon them.
Prove it.
Robert Epstein
> On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:51:25 GMT, Robert Epstein
> <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>>>>>The CCP says it has the right to decide who will be the DL. Belief does not
>>>>>come into it.
>>>>
>>>>That is true control-freak-dom, when you need to rule over that which
>>>>you don't believe exists.
>>>
>>>
>>>The Chinese government is merely practicing the tradition of Chinese
>>>dynasty in respecting the backward, superstitious, and ridiculous
>>>Tibetan religious custom. When the time is right, the complete
>>>eradication of Lamaism should be one deciding step to move Tibetan
>>>people into the modern world. Under current new situation, I think
>>>it's necessary to speed up that process for the healthy development of
>>>Tibetan society. How to outlaw Lamaism should be a very good question
>>>for all compassionate Buddhists to think about.
>>
>>Yeah, I guess "healthy development" would mean that there are no more
>>Tibetans, only Chinese, living there in their place. Is the forced
>>marriage program going well there?
>
>
> The real question for a Buddhist should be, does Buddhist endorse the
> meat eating, alcohol drinking, womanizing, and money gambling Tibetan
> Lamaism?
Prove that all of the above takes place.
And that the upper echelons of the CCP are not practicing same or worse,
while imprisoning their political enemies.
Robert Epstein
> I would add murder, burning buildings and cars, commiting agressions
> to athletes, terrorifing innocents, etc. is that Tibetan buddism?
People will rebel when they are oppressed. The oppressor is responsible.
Robert
= = = = = = =
>
> On Apr 21, 9:46 pm, Raymond <ni...@nizuy.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:51:25 GMT, Robert Epstein
>>
>>
>>
>><vze25...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>The CCP says it has the right to decide who will be the DL. Belief does not
>>>>>>come into it.
>>
>>>>>That is true control-freak-dom, when you need to rule over that which
>>>>>you don't believe exists.
>>
>>>>The Chinese government is merely practicing the tradition of Chinese
>>>>dynasty in respecting the backward, superstitious, and ridiculous
>>>>Tibetan religious custom. When the time is right, the complete
>>>>eradication of Lamaism should be one deciding step to move Tibetan
>>>>people into the modern world. Under current new situation, I think
>>>>it's necessary to speed up that process for the healthy development of
>>>>Tibetan society. How to outlaw Lamaism should be a very good question
>>>>for all compassionate Buddhists to think about.
>>
>>>Yeah, I guess "healthy development" would mean that there are no more
>>>Tibetans, only Chinese, living there in their place. Is the forced
>>>marriage program going well there?
>>
>>The real question for a Buddhist should be, does Buddhist endorse the
>>meat eating, alcohol drinking, womanizing, and money gambling Tibetan
>>Lamaism?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Robert
>>
>>>- - - - - - -
>
>
>
Robert Epstein
> Are you a Buddhist?
> You sound like a communist crony.
> --------------------------------------
> It must be his Beijinger accent.
>
>
>>If you at least believe in democracy,
>>you should let the Tibetan people decide for themselves
>>and tell the invaders to get out.
>
> -----------------------------------
> Yes, they already did in 1951 and 1959, Americans and its CIA is not
> longer over there. Also the aristocrats left and the monks cannot
> enslave peopl, cannot torture them and finally let them die "at the
> will of god" when they are sick or too old.
Prove this took place.
And what about those rotting away in Chinese prisons for daring to
dissent? What about that, eh?
Robert
= = = = = = =
>
>
>
> On Apr 21, 10:15 pm, oxtail <oxt...@zen.org> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:46:41 -0400, Raymond wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:51:25 GMT, Robert Epstein <vze25...@verizon.net>
>>>wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>The CCP says it has the right to decide who will be the DL. Belief
>>>>>>>does not come into it.
>>
>>>>>>That is true control-freak-dom, when you need to rule over that which
>>>>>>you don't believe exists.
>>
>>>>>The Chinese government is merely practicing the tradition of Chinese
>>>>>dynasty in respecting the backward, superstitious, and ridiculous
>>>>>Tibetan religious custom. When the time is right, the complete
>>>>>eradication of Lamaism should be one deciding step to move Tibetan
>>>>>people into the modern world. Under current new situation, I think
>>>>>it's necessary to speed up that process for the healthy development of
>>>>>Tibetan society. How to outlaw Lamaism should be a very good question
>>>>>for all compassionate Buddhists to think about.
>>
>>>>Yeah, I guess "healthy development" would mean that there are no more
>>>>Tibetans, only Chinese, living there in their place. Is the forced
>>>>marriage program going well there?
>>
>>>The real question for a Buddhist should be, does Buddhist endorse the
>>>meat eating, alcohol drinking, womanizing, and money gambling Tibetan
>>>Lamaism?
>>
>>Are you a Buddhist?
>>You sound like a communist crony.
>>
>>If you at least believe in democracy,
>>you should let the Tibetan people decide for themselves
>>and tell the invaders to get out.
>>
>>If you are a Buddhist,
>>tell us what kind of tradition you follow
>>and what precepts you keep.
>>
>>BTW kindly update your nomenclature.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibetan_Buddhism
>>
>>--
>>oxtail
>
>
>
Raymond
Exploiting whom? The former slave owners? What do they have that I
need? The lustful carnal desire or the evil unforgivable karma for
ruling over the Tibetan people?
Here is a picture of Tibetan slave with his master. Can you recognize
who is who?
(try again)
?
Robert Epstein
> Of course Oxtail Hitler, always at your command !!!
>
>
> ROFL
That is truly funny, YOU accusing someone else of being Hitler. Look in
the mirror.
Robert
= = = = = =
>
>
> On Apr 21, 10:23 pm, oxtail <oxt...@zen.org> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 13:07:52 -0700, xi wrote:
>>
>>>I would add murder, burning buildings and cars, commiting agressions to
>>>athletes, terrorifing innocents, etc. is that Tibetan buddism?
>>
>>No.
>>
>>To help the Tibetan people practice their Buddhism properly,
>>all the Chinese people should get out of Tibet immediately.
>>
>>--
>>oxtail
>
>
>
Robert Epstein
> On Apr 21, 1:48 pm, oxtail <oxt...@zen.org> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 10:09:28 -0700, jimzorn wrote:
>>
>>>That existed in a previous era, at a time when equal or worse ills
>>>existed
>>>
>>>>in the society as a whole. Society evolves and religious institutions
>>>>can evolve also. Buddhism exists in prosperous countries of east Asia
>>>>today, without those ills. I could look at Thailand, for example, where
>>>>Buddhism is a main part of their culture, and the government is not
>>>>threatened at all by that. The temples also provide a high education
>>>>standard, recognized in the country, and no one is bound for life.
>>>>Single moms have a good place for their children during the school
>>>>years. They can learn meditation and morals.
>>
>>>>My point, already stated, is religious institution progressed just like
>>>>society. To compare present society to a previous era of religious
>>>>institutions is unfair, and deceptive at best.
>>
>>>>And don't forget the bigger picture: China indoctrinates young people
>>>>in their education system to be atheist, and that religion was just
>>>>another historic method of control, and in the end, man is just an
>>>>animal, and no more has a soul that a dog does. This told to me by
>>>>people who came from China.
>>
>>>>I don't debate the religion as historic control institution, but
>>>>spirituality is not dependent on membership in a religion.
>>
>>>The Chinese plan to invest 100 billion yuan a year in Tibet for the
>>>development of schools and other infrastructure. What good would it be
>>>to take that away from the Tibetans? I don't think the Dalai Lama can
>>>offer the same.
>>
>>>I would think that in China, the children are being taught to believe in
>>>the separation of church and state. rather than to deny the existence of
>>>God. In the United States, we believe this to be a good thing.
>>
>>>I've been to China and have met many Chinese. They all seem to feel
>>>quite free to practice whatever religion they choose, mostly Buddhist or
>>>Muslim, mostly nominal, or to not practice religion at all.
>>
>>>The important question to ask is, why is the western media fanning this
>>>flame of conflict? I think the global corporations, with their
>>>headquarters in London, which finance the western media, want to create
>>>a conflict between China and the US in order to weaken them. This will
>>>allow them to more easily dominate our nations.
>>
>>>Instead, the US and China should build a stronger relationship in this
>>>time of crisis. There is nothing inherently wrong with global
>>>corporations, but they should be subject to our nations, rather than the
>>>alternative.
>>
>>>Our financial system is collapsing, and a new international agreement
>>>will be necessary with the Chinese. We need a fixed exchange rate
>>>system, or the dollar will continue to weaken, which could seriously
>>>harm both the US and the Chinese.
>>
>>If a rich woman says that she can raise children well,
>>should we allow her to go around grabbing any child
>>she wants in a poor neighborhood?
>
>
> If you are talking about Tibet, the historical fact is that the
> Tibetan leadership incluidng the DL skip town. China was left holding
> the bag. To use your analogy. a child was dumped to the lap of the
> rich woman.
You know damn well the DL was chased out of Tibet on pain of death if he
was captured.
Robert
= = = = = = =
Robert Epstein
> On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 08:26:14 -0700 (PDT),
> jim...@guide-to-distance-learning.com wrote:
>
>
>>Before traveling to China, I thought that the Chinese government was
>>evil.
>>
>>After traveling to China and asking many Chinese how they feel about
>>their government, I found that practically all of them are quite happy
>>with it. Although I didn't go to Tibet, I imagine that most Tibetans
>>are happy with their government as well.
>>
>>Why wouldn't they be? They have the freedom to practice their
>>religion, but more importantly, they have the freedom to not practice
>>religion if they choose. In the past, young boys were selected to be
>>monks whether they wanted to be or not. They were generally used as
>>menial servants as well as homosexual sex slaves.
>>
>>With the Chinese occupation, thousands of individuals freely chose to
>>leave the monastic lives they had been forced into.
>
>
> Thank you. It's nice to hear the voice of reason from a westerner.
You mean your makebelieve mirror-image Westerner?
Robert Epstein
And your evil is implacable.
Robert
- - - - - - - -
Used To Be Your Bellman
"oxtail" <oxt...@zen.org> wrote in message
news:SZ6dnRcbk4muZJHV...@ptd.net...
> On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 21:25:59 +0100, Used To Be Your Bellman wrote:
>
>> "tttt" <Confucianism_t...@pursuer.com> wrote in message
>>> Tibet is an autonomous province already. Its top administrator is
>>> Tibetan.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> But besides that - allow me to compliment you on your much
>> improved use
>> of English. Wow what an improvement - Spelling 10/10; Grammar
>> 10/10;
>> Making sense 10/10.
>>
>> This can only mean one thing - our old tttt has been disappeared
>> and we
>> have a new tttt. Such is the unforgiving nature of the apparatus.
>>
>> But it does cause a worry. What's happened to the dear old tttt?
>> I do
>> hope you haven't done anything horrible to him. I know he was a
>> bit
>> silly saying the Dalai Lama loved drinking blood and that - but
>> nobody
>> was particularly bothered. It was just silly that's all. He
>> doesn't
>> deserve being re-educated in prison camp.
>>
>> But pray tell - what is your name?
>
>
> A committee?
>
I hope not. We'll lose that individual touch.
--
BWZ Student
Derek
Raymond
<vze2...@verizon.net> wrote:
>Raymond wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:51:25 GMT, Robert Epstein
>> <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>>The CCP says it has the right to decide who will be the DL. Belief does not
>>>>>>come into it.
>>>>>
>>>>>That is true control-freak-dom, when you need to rule over that which
>>>>>you don't believe exists.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The Chinese government is merely practicing the tradition of Chinese
>>>>dynasty in respecting the backward, superstitious, and ridiculous
>>>>Tibetan religious custom. When the time is right, the complete
>>>>eradication of Lamaism should be one deciding step to move Tibetan
>>>>people into the modern world. Under current new situation, I think
>>>>it's necessary to speed up that process for the healthy development of
>>>>Tibetan society. How to outlaw Lamaism should be a very good question
>>>>for all compassionate Buddhists to think about.
>>>
>>>Yeah, I guess "healthy development" would mean that there are no more
>>>Tibetans, only Chinese, living there in their place. Is the forced
>>>marriage program going well there?
>>
>>
>> The real question for a Buddhist should be, does Buddhist endorse the
>> meat eating, alcohol drinking, womanizing, and money gambling Tibetan
>> Lamaism?
>
>Prove that all of the above takes place.
It's all shown in the British made documentary "A year in Tibet".
Tibetan lamas can drink, gamble, eat meat, and go to bars to meet
girls.
>
>And that the upper echelons of the CCP are not practicing same or worse,
>while imprisoning their political enemies.
Nothing can be compared with what happens in Washington. How low do
you want to go? Is Buddhist hell the place of your true home?
ltl...@hotmail.com
No evidence for that.
The DL asked the Chinese to arrange some show at the military camp.
The Chinese complied. But then rumor began to circulate that the
Chinese was luring the DL into the military camp in order to abduct
him.
"The question remained as to whether the Chinese ever had any
intention of abducting the Dalai Lama. They have always maintained
that it was the Dalai Lama who 'took the initiate' and asked Deng
Shaodong to arrange the show at the military camp. It seems unlikely
that the Chinese ever had any plans for abducting the Dalai Lama to
Beijing. Despite the Khampa rebellion and the setbacks in eastern
Tibet, they knew that they had secured control of the country and
that
their military supremacy assured them of eventual victory. They were
also aware that the relationship between Lhasa and Kham was at best
uneasy, and at worst hostile. Phala commented later that had the 10th
March Uprising not taken place, there was every likelihood that civil
war would have broken out between the Lhasa regime and the Khampas."
The abbove who quoted from THE DRAGON IN THE LAND OF SNOW. A book
written by Tsering Shakay who is part of the exile community. He is
not exactly neutural. Yet he admiited that it was unlikely that the
Chinese had planned to abduct the DL. According who Lee Feigon who is
more neutral although he is sympathetic to "frree Tibet,' the events
which led to the DL's leaving Tibet was planned, presumably by mid
ranking Tibetan military officers. Relying on Tom Grunfeld's work, he
wrote in "DEMYSTIFYING TIBET" the following, "[Tom Grunfeld] notes
that the scenario that lead to the flight of the Dalai Lama was one
earlier outlined in an Indian paper said to be closed to several
leaders in the rebel camp."
>
> Robert
>
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>
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