It's only words...
Bill Pfeifer
It was at a camp somewhere for tsunami survivors.
He said that they showed a little girl, about 4 years old,
who did not play, but just sat there with a somewhat
blank expression. She was not particularly sad,
she was just being a good girl and sat there
patiently waiting for her mommy to return.
Now, I haven't seen the story, I just heard those words
retelling it.
But I've been down in the dumps ever since I heard them.
Now, after reading these "words dancing on a screen,"
do you feel anything inside as a result?
If you do, you're a human being who is affected by
this "fluff."
I do not believe that the aim of Buddhist practice is to
destroy this ability. If I believed that my practice
would destroy my ability to be affected by this "fluff,"
I would stop it immediately.
Michel
girl doesn't have a problem? Does she? We assume she is in trouble
(predicting in the future) and it makes us said...
There is an 'I / me' but only when there are words... and in this case I
read your words and I internally cry... On another level this 'me crying
internally' is observed by the 'real me' preferably called: awareness
itselve...
Don't mix them up... a great buddhist can suffer a lot... The only
difference is it is seen for what it is (just as the girl only sees what is
at that particularly moment.)
"Bill Pfeifer" <billp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:34851sF...@individual.net...
Keynes
wrote:
You're right. Compassion is not to be denied.
In spite of all the otherworldly pronouncements
and negations of the Buddha and bodisattvas,
compassion remains a principle to keep. It is
deeper and more fundamental than opinions.
When all else goes, compassion remains.
Words on a screen are nothing. They only stand
for the intention behind them, and that's certainly
something. There's no excuse for bad behavior
just by saying it has no meaning. "Why are you
bleeding? It was just a bullet."
Chris Myers
We are affected because we have attached to what we think this child might
be going through. We do not know what is affecting her and whatever she was
experiencing when the photo was taken is now in the past and not in the
present moment where true freedom is.
There is a difference between compassion and empathy. When we feel bad
because of something it is more correct to term that empathy. Compassion
can be given with a happy heart and if the self (free from the I or Ego) is
joyous, then no sadness can exist.
When you felt as you did for her did you also feel the pain of animals
having things put into their eyes or having cancer cells injected into their
bodies to see what the results would be like? What about the person who
died painfully from the myriad of diseases or from the worms cut in half
somewhere in the world by a farmer or from the oxen who were shackled and
forced to work in the hot sun or, or, or?
Compassion must be experienced without the intervention or the ego or I but
this compassion must be had for all beings that suffer and not for one in
particular who feel under the lense or a photographer shooting images for
stories.
CM
On 1/7/05 2:08 PM, in article 34851sF...@individual.net, "Bill Pfeifer"
Colin Hankin
<billp...@hotmail.com> writes
The aim of Buddhist practice is to regain (as a race) access to
happiness.
Buddha understood the mechanism of happiness and described how to get
it. Buddhism explains that mental inaction is the route to happiness..
Your reaction to the story demonstrates the valuable attribute of
compassion, which guides our *actions* along those lines that give best
opportunity to practice that inaction.
Living to the best advantage demands that we prevail in two spheres.
Firstly we act morally to maximise the opportunity to be happy.
Secondly we acquire the skill of abstaining from conscious mental
activity in order to get our just and proper reward for successful
activity.
We think (often very hard - guided by compassion) to satisfy our
appetites (which includes solving that little girl's problems).
We abstain from thought to be truly happy.
Life is not "fluff". It often confronts us with serious problems (e.g.
the tsunami) which compassion rightly dictates have to be solved
TTFN
--
Colin Hankin: www.zenprime.demon.co.uk
zendan-at-zenprime-dot-demon-dot-co-dot-uk
None of the personal addresses on my web page work
red_h...@operamail.com
your pain seeing her pain is not necessarily her pain
self less love might be closer to seeing no pain in her pain
rather then own pain as her pain
speaking to her eternal self instead, or buddha nature as people here
might say
since you cannot lift her up and give her a warm smile
and a hug...
t_pa...@my-deja.com
Bill Pfeifer wrote:
> A guy at work was talking about a news story he'd seen on TV.
> It was at a camp somewhere for tsunami survivors.
> He said that they showed a little girl, about 4 years old,
> who did not play, but just sat there with a somewhat
> blank expression. She was not particularly sad,
> she was just being a good girl and sat there
> patiently waiting for her mommy to return.
>
> Now, I haven't seen the story, I just heard those words
> retelling it.
> But I've been down in the dumps ever since I heard them.
>
mommy to return is not so bad.
You suffer knowing the mommy will not return.
> Now, after reading these "words dancing on a screen,"
> do you feel anything inside as a result?
> If you do, you're a human being who is affected by
> this "fluff."
>
> I do not believe that the aim of Buddhist practice is to
> destroy this ability. If I believed that my practice
> would destroy my ability to be affected by this "fluff,"
> I would stop it immediately.
>
You would not want to "destroy the ability" of empathy and compassion.
Buddhism does seek to destroy suffering. For instance, when you hear
about the little girl, you suffer on her behalf. Does that bring back
her mommy? Does that ease her suffering? What has your suffering
accomplished? An alternative is, do you go out and do something so
that the girl's life can become better?
Do you "sit in the dumps" waiting or do you rise to action, do
something that you are capable of doing and changing things you are
capable of changing?
I see on the news videos of Buddhists, Christians, Soldiers,
Insurgents, Tourists, and Farmers doing work of lifting boxes, carrying
water, treating wounds, flying planes and helicopters, building
shelters. Perhaps if you looked at the people around the little girl,
building camp, carrying food and water, then you would see more than
suffering.
Raan
able to tell the story. Anyone? Maybe Eric or Anders can recall it?
--
></>
"Bill Pfeifer" <billp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:34851sF...@individual.net...
Robert Epstein
Raan wrote:
> It reminds me of the Buddhist who lost his son but not enough for me to be
> able to tell the story. Anyone? Maybe Eric or Anders can recall it?
I'm the one who told that story; it is the story of the Tibetan teacher
Marpa who lost his son. Marpa was the teacher of Milarepa. Are you
interested in hearing the story from me? If so, I will repeat it.
Robert
Raan
"Robert Epstein" <r.ep...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:lT5Ed.1496$F97.1323@trnddc06...
"Bill Pfeifer" <billp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:34851sF...@individual.net...
> A guy at work was talking about a news story he'd seen on TV.
> It was at a camp somewhere for tsunami survivors.
> He said that they showed a little girl, about 4 years old,
> who did not play, but just sat there with a somewhat
> blank expression. She was not particularly sad,
> she was just being a good girl and sat there
> patiently waiting for her mommy to return.
>
> Now, I haven't seen the story, I just heard those words
> retelling it.
> But I've been down in the dumps ever since I heard them.
>
> Now, after reading these "words dancing on a screen,"
> do you feel anything inside as a result?
> If you do, you're a human being who is affected by
> this "fluff."
>
> I do not believe that the aim of Buddhist practice is to
> destroy this ability. If I believed that my practice
> would destroy my ability to be affected by this "fluff,"
> I would stop it immediately.
>
If you see why I was reminded of it then by all means.
--
></>
Bill Pfeifer
I agree whith you, but I think you misunderstood me.
Maybe "in the dumps" was'nt the best description.
Also, I wouldn't necessarily call it "suffering."
What I was trying to convey was that hearing the words
telling the story affected me.
My post was in response to a perceived theme in discussions
here that it was wrong to be affected at all by "words dancing
on a screen." That words on a screen are mere fluff and should
not affect the reader at all. That one could let loose with
viscious verbal assaults in these newsgroups and then blame
the victims if they were affected in any way by those assaults.
I believe that as long as one can call oneself a human being,
one will be affected by others. To not be affected at all
one would have to kill all emotions in oneself. ANd I would
immediately stop any ppractice that I believed would have
that effect.
The people you mentioned seeing on TV helping out were clearly
affected by the disaster. Otherwise, they would continue
their daily routines unchanged, unaffected by words on a screen,
air vibrations from a speaker, and colored dots on a TV.
Tad Perry
Then stop it immediately if your reaction is that of a typical bleeding
heart. Bleeding heart syndrome does no one any good. In fact, it can serve
as powerful prison walls that entrap the people you feel sorry for. Take
proactive action if it moves you. It would be better to do something that
makes the girl smile than sit there with a tear in your eye.
tvp
Sid
> Damn right. Hasn't the kid got enough on her plate
> without having to comfort adults?
>
> When, last April, my son died,
> I spent weeks consoling well wishers.
> Julianlzb87
"While I am under illusion,
it is for you to get me across;
but after (enlightenment),
I should cross it by myself."
-- Hui Neng
"I cannot give you back anything -
here, take this."
"That is a cabbage, Master!"
"What's lost, then?"
Raan
"Julianlzb87" <julia...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:qbf3u0dgfq7ke4oph...@4ax.com...
> without having to comfort adults?
>
> When, last April, my son died,
> I spent weeks consoling well wishers.
Didn't the act of consoling them help to console you?
--
></>
Robert Epstein
Julianlzb87 wrote:
> If it's anything like the following excerpt
> I suspect that only arbt readers will be keen...
>
> From Yungton Trogyel of Kyorpo Milarepa learned black magic and
> also how to send hailstorms. Back in his village of Tsa, the aunt and
> uncle's son had come of age, and in their house they were giving a
> large party for him to which many relatives had been invited. Through
> his black magic, Milarepa was able to make the house collapse and
> thirty-five people were killed. Through his other magical powers, he
> was able to send hail on the village and that destroyed the harvest.
> His mother was filled with happiness.
> Julianlzb87
No, the story in question is of Marpa's son's death and Marpa's reaction
to it. You are recounting a story of Milarepa's early days, unrelated.
Robert
Robert Epstein
Raan wrote:
yes, the aim of Buddhist practice is not to turn us into machines who do
not feel or react to life, though some may think it is.
Marpa, who had taught his students to be unattached to all manifest
things, lost his son I think to an illness, and his students observed
Marpa crying pitifully at the death of his child. The students became
angry and said "haven't you always taught us to be detached to all
things in life and that they are an illusion?" Marpa replied: "It is
true my son was an illusion, but he was such a beautiful illusion I
can't help but weep."
Robert
Raan
Marpa, who had taught his students to be unattached to all manifest
things, lost his son I think to an illness, and his students observed
Marpa crying pitifully at the death of his child. The students became
angry and said "haven't you always taught us to be detached to all
things in life and that they are an illusion?" Marpa replied: "It is
true my son was an illusion, but he was such a beautiful illusion I
can't help but weep."
(Quote provided by Robert Epstien)
--
></>
Raan
Very gracious of you, thanks.
--
></>
Raan
> with, but as such, only a delay, I could have done without.
> Having said that, I understand why it happened and don't resent it.
My thought was that in consoling another your compassion would help to
console you. Maybe consoling isn't the right word for it but instead you
were reassuring them, which requires much less if any compassion.
--
></>
Colin Hankin
<julia...@gmail.com> writes
>I suspect that only arbt readers will be keen...
>
>From Yungton Trogyel of Kyorpo Milarepa learned black magic and
>also how to send hailstorms. Back in his village of Tsa, the aunt and
>uncle's son had come of age, and in their house they were giving a
>large party for him to which many relatives had been invited. Through
>his black magic, Milarepa was able to make the house collapse and
>thirty-five people were killed. Through his other magical powers, he
>was able to send hail on the village and that destroyed the harvest.
>His mother was filled with happiness.
>Julianlzb87
Didn't they invite him?
Raan
> a buddhist perspective, come to terms with the loss does indeed
> develop and strengthen my practice.
>
> Julianlzb87
It really isn't worth the price...
But then that's not the point of it really, is it?
--
></>
Julianlzb87
What isn't worth the price?
>But then that's not the point of it really, is it?
I can't answer without your answer.
Julianlzb87
Robert Epstein
Julianlzb87 wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 05:53:11 GMT, Robert Epstein
> I'll take that to mean "related."
Great! Then you can take it to mean "fuck off."
Robert
Robert Epstein
Raan wrote:
no problem.
robert
possum
> The address is alt.religion.buddhism.tibetan, and ask for
> Robert Epstein or Evelyn Ruut.
don't be silly julian.
psm
>
>
>
> Julianlzb87
Robert Epstein
Julianlzb87 wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:52:06 +0000, Colin Hankin
> <zen...@zenprime.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> For further details I'll pass you on to the black magic department,
> The address is alt.religion.buddhism.tibetan, and ask for
> Robert Epstein or Evelyn Ruut.
>
>
>
> Julianlzb87
And I'll pass you right back to a man called Julian who practices
wish-fulfillment through occult practices by worshipping a magical
scroll which confers granting of wishes like the tooth fairy and finally
enlightenment through faith in a mystically endowed scroll, the opposite
of what the Buddha taught.
Robert
Raan
The loss for the gain.
Raan
> On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 04:39:02 GMT, Robert Epstein
>
> I believe Nichiren was correct when he said that
> simply to hear the phrase "Myoho Renge Kyo"
> is sufficient to enable one to reach the stage of non-regression.
>
> There is no worshipping involved in that.
> Grateful receiving is all that involves and that
> is more a matter of not doing rather than doing.
>
> It is akin to the difference between hearing and listening.
>
> Hearing is something that happens.
> Listening is something one does.
>
>
>
>
> to hear the title sufficient
>
> Julianlzb87
Repeat the following mantra
for enlightenment as to your true nature:
"Whah Taah Naas Siam."
(Best said aloud and in public)
--
></>
Evelyn Ruut
>
>
> Julianlzb87 wrote:
>> For further details I'll pass you on to the black magic department,
>> The address is alt.religion.buddhism.tibetan, and ask for Robert Epstein
>> or Evelyn Ruut.
>>
>>
>>
>> Julianlzb87
>
> And I'll pass you right back to a man called Julian who practices
> wish-fulfillment through occult practices by worshipping a magical scroll
> which confers granting of wishes like the tooth fairy and finally
> enlightenment through faith in a mystically endowed scroll, the opposite
> of what the Buddha taught.
>
> Robert
hey don't malign the tooth fairy!
LOL
--
Regards,
Evelyn
(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")
Julianlzb87
It wasn't a bargain.
Julianlzb87
dmc...@gmail.com
> Repeat the following mantra
> for enlightenment as to your true nature:
> "Whah Taah Naas Siam."
> (Best said aloud and in public)
Shouldn't y'all get a room or something? *8)
"Julianlzb87" <julia...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I believe Nichiren was correct when he said that
> simply to hear the phrase "Myoho Renge Kyo"
> is sufficient to enable one to reach the stage of non-regression.
Cool! Is that any truer of "Myoho Renge Kyo"
than it is of "Mu", or "[the sound of a drop
of water]", or "Sorry, we're all out of the
manicotti"? (Not a rhetorical question; I'm
interested in the content of your beliefs.)
DC
naked_ape
> On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 04:39:02 GMT, Robert Epstein
>
> simply to hear the phrase "Myoho Renge Kyo"
> is sufficient to enable one to reach the stage of non-regression.
>
> Grateful receiving is all that involves and that
> is more a matter of not doing rather than doing.
>
> It is akin to the difference between hearing and listening.
>
> Hearing is something that happens.
> Listening is something one does.
>
>
>
>
> to hear the title sufficient
>
> Julianlzb87
In English, what does the title "Myoho Renge Kyo" say? Ape;)
Evelyn Ruut
news:kyVEd.5866$C.361@trnddc05...
it says "pass the salami"
No, seriously, it isn't what a mantra means that makes it effective, it is
what one does with ones mind, the way one focuses ones stream of
consciousness, that matters. Tibetan buddhism has many stories about
ignorant individuals who spoke mantras incorrectly or even to the point that
their mispronunciation was humorous, yet they achieved great states of
heightened consciousness. Later learning the correct pronunciation of the
mantra, they tried it and lost it. Going back to the incorrect
pronunciation they again achieved it. When you are doing mantra practice,
you usually stop other unfruitful mental habits such as what tang calls
"mentation".....
omigod have I just defended julian the troll? OYYYYYY
naked_ape
> Saddharma pundarika Sutra, but in the Queens English...
> Lotus Scripture.
That's it, you simply say "Lotus Scripture (Sutra)" and you attain an
enlightened state? Ape;)
>
>
>
>
>
> Julianlzb87
naked_ape
"Evelyn Ruut" <mama-l...@hvc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:qyWEd.44150$kq2....@twister.nyc.rr.com...
My mantra is, "Why?" And yes, I always get an answer. Quite often it's
simply, "Why not?" Ape;)
Bill Pfeifer
>
> That's it, you simply say "Lotus Scripture (Sutra)" and you attain an
> enlightened state? Ape;)
Not only that, but chanting that magical formula also gets you what your
ego wants; a car, a TV, a hot babe. Or victory over your enemies.
Nichies envision themselves having lots of enemies.
Julianlzb87
wrote:
Even less than that....
Nichiren says that too hear the title is enough.
I take that to mean the fact that you can hear indicates
you have the necessaries. The gate is there and open.
One still has to enter but that is not done, but rather...
not not done. It is a rather difficult thing to explain in words, and
that is why some Zen Masters use a stick.
I am searching for the specific quotation but here are a few that say
essentially the same thing. The only variable is the individuals
capacity to receive the Dharma.
"And yet the Lotus Sutra itself says, 'If there are those who hear the
Law, then not a one will fail to attain Buddhahood.'"
[Conversation between a Sage and an Unenlightened Man - Part One
(WND013), Page 108, col 2, line 25, sentence 2 in paragraph 4]
"And if you so much as hear the words "pickled plum," your mouth will
begin to water."
[The Daimoku of the Lotus Sutra (WND014), Page 141, col 1, line 27,
sentence 2 in paragraph 4]
"How fortunate it is, then, that even though we were born in the
Latter Day of the Law we are able to hear the teachings preached at
Eagle Peak, and even though we live in a remote corner of the world we
are able to scoop up with our hands the water of the great river of
Buddhism."
[Reply to Hoshina Goro Taro (WND015), Page 155, col 1, line 24,
sentence 6 in paragraph 1]
"The Lotus Sutra says: "If there are good men or good women who, on
hearing the 'Devadatta' chapter of the Lotus Sutra of the Wonderful
Law, believe and revere it with pure hearts and harbor no doubts or
perplexities, they will never fall into hell or the realm of hungry
spirits or of beasts, but will be born in the presence of the Buddhas
of the ten directions, and in the place where they are born they will
constantly hear this sutra."
[The Origin of the Service for Deceased Ancestors (WND021), Page 191,
col 2, line 36, sentence 1 in paragraph 5]
"However, Shakyamuni Buddha, Many Treasures Buddha, and the Buddhas of
the ten directions who are emanations of Shakyamuni assert that, of
those who hear the Lotus Sutra, 'not a one will fail to attain
Buddhahood,' and that all will achieve the Buddha way."
[The Letter of Petition from Yorimoto (WND097), Page 805, col 1, line
3, sentence 2 in paragraph 6]
There are around 100 instances of this teaching in the
7 volumes of Nichirens major writings.
Unfunnily enough, the teaching occurs far less frequently in
Nichiren's orally transmitted teachings....!
Often in Buddhism hearers choose to expergate teachings when they pass
them on. They tend to hold things back... conceal things for their own
ends.. hence Esoteric Buddhism and the Occult.
Julianlzb87
Julianlzb87
Bloody hell Nake! Trying to give me a heart attack or somesuch!
......tremble... Evelyn is right.
One point... "it isn't what a mantra means that makes it effective"
that is true for most cases, but there are people or which I am one,
who has an attachment to understanding, intellectually if you like,
what I read, and that is where the difference between "pass the
salami" and "myoho renge kyo" becomes the issue.
Apart from that.. all that needs to be done is for Evelyn to
stop her lap dog pooing all over that place, but then lap dogs
are notorious for their fragile temper and constitution..
Julianlzb87
Evelyn Ruut
hmmmmm. i wonder why?
lol!
Bill Pfeifer
"Evelyn Ruut" <mama-l...@hvc.rr.com> wrote in message news:PSXEd.44163$kq2....@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> "Bill Pfeifer" <billp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:34iuscF...@individual.net...
> > "naked_ape" <naked...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > news:PzWEd.15475$lG.14324@trnddc03...
> >>
> >> That's it, you simply say "Lotus Scripture (Sutra)" and you attain an
> >> enlightened state? Ape;)
> >
> > Not only that, but chanting that magical formula also gets you what your
> > ego wants; a car, a TV, a hot babe. Or victory over your enemies.
> > Nichies envision themselves having lots of enemies.
>
>
> hmmmmm. i wonder why?
> lol!
Goes with the territory.
Just like Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons.
Come up with some cockamamie story, tell people that you're
right and they're wrong, and they'll tell you off.
But since you *KNOW* you're right, they must be enemies.
And, of course, his obnoxious ways are designed to "make
friends and influence people". :-)
Stumper
> to defend the Dharma and it's devotees.
>
>
> Julianlzb87
Are you saying they are fanatics?
Evelyn Ruut
lol!
you got that right, bill :-)
Julianlzb87
<billp...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Willie...
You are adding fuel to their fire.
Julianlzb87
naked_ape
I could use some more socks. .. Ape;)
>
>
naked_ape
You've heard the "Law." Did you attain Buddhahood? Ape;)
>
>
> Julianlzb87
Bill Pfeifer
Talk to Julian. He'll set you up with your very own magic scroll.
Magic scroll. Magic chant. What other occult props do they use?
Eye of Newt? Wings of Bat?
Bill Pfeifer
> On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 18:20:36 -0500, Julianlzb87 wrote
> (in article <skn8u0d6bgmsa70h1...@4ax.com>):
> > to defend the Dharma and it's devotees.
>
Their strategy seems to be to spam hundreds of "Discombobulating
Zen Stories".
Sid
"Mistakes are made quickly, automatically, conditioned by
thought - don't make them. Instead, go beyond - see the
truth right away. Then, no mistakes."
-- Nichiren Daishonin
naked_ape
Bill Pfeifer
>
> "Mistakes are made quickly, automatically, conditioned by
> thought - don't make them. Instead, go beyond - see the
> truth right away. Then, no mistakes."
>
> -- Nichiren Daishonin
True, but that's about as useful as telling an addict,
"Just stop using the drug."
Sid
"People expect to be led, yet they can only lead themselves.
They refuse to understand this, waiting for a cure from
outside. They die waiting."
-- Nichiren Daishonin
Robert Epstein
Julianlzb87 wrote:
how is that not an occult belief?
why should a mere title or phrase confer non-regression
unless you believe in a supernatural power that has no relation to
understanding?
the buddha taught in almost every sutra that personal insight and wisdom
was the only path to enlightenment.
contrary to this, you and those who follow the Lotus Sutra say that the
sutra itself and its name have the power.
is this not so?
robert
Stumper
No. It's like saying:
"Here we invented this drug
equally addictive
equally bad for health
but very painful to take.
Take it.
It will cure your addiction."
There is a chance!
Bill Pfeifer
Agreed.
But I submit that those who can simply drop the habit patterns
and wake up have already done so.
Those of us who have difficulty with this just have to work
at it. In this case, it's useful to follow the guidance of
someone who's already "there". We know very well that all we
have to do is drop the habits, but we also know from loooong
practice that we need some help doing it, otherwise we would
have already succeeded. So for someone to just tell us,
"simply drop it," is no help at all.
Sid
Uninvented, say Nam-myoho-renge-kyo
10,000 times or only once.
Where's the cure then?
Was there something to cure?
"Nothing found, Nothing lost"
-- Nichiren Daishonin
Stumper
Oh, sorry I was thinking about Zen.
As for your sugar pill,
it works also.
Possibly better than Zen for most people.
Is it addictive?
Sid
"You look to heaven for help. You look to charms for help.
You look everywhere for it. There is no help outside of you.
And no one else to help."
-- Nichiren Daishonin
Bill Pfeifer
Pardon me for being so dense. It just occurred to me that you
keep quoting only Nichiren. Are you a Nichie?
Sid
"Why would you think, and about what? How would you order
the importance of thoughts without becoming lost in them?"
-- Nichiren Daishonin
> As for your sugar pill,
> it works also.
> Possibly better than Zen for most people.
> Is it addictive?
"Nam-myoho-renge-kyo. This is the essence - swallow it and
know. But it is like swallowing a hot stone. There is no
magic thing about it, afterall."
-- Nichiren Daishonin
Robert Epstein
Julianlzb87 wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 19:12:16 GMT, "naked_ape" <naked...@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>"Julianlzb87" <julia...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:07v6u0l7crh4jm34p...@4ax.com...
>>
>>In English, what does the title "Myoho Renge Kyo" say? Ape;)
>>
>
>
> NERD would say, or at least he would had he an iota of integrity...
> Saddharma pundarika Sutra, but in the Queens English...
> Lotus Scripture.
>
>
>
>
>
> Julianlzb87
Thank you SCUM for including me in your reply.
Your loving attentions do not go unnoticed by myself or the Lord!
robert
Sid
possibly, judging me by my friends.
are you the judge? or is a panel being assembled
after the herd comes back from pasture?
Stumper
Why don't you talk to Christians?
They are good at swallowing things.
Zen students are usually good for hitting only.
Sid
> Julianlzb87 wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 19:12:16 GMT, "naked_ape" <naked...@verizon.net>
>> wrote:
<difficult surgery>
>>> In English, what does the title "Myoho Renge Kyo" say? Ape;)
>>
>> NERD would say, or at least he would had he an iota of integrity...
>> Saddharma pundarika Sutra, but in the Queens English...
>> Lotus Scripture.
>>
>> Julianlzb87
>
> Thank you SCUM for including me in your reply.
>
> Your loving attentions do not go unnoticed by myself or the Lord!
>
> robert
sorry for the interruption, but "the Lord" is...?
naked_ape
"Robert Epstein" <r.ep...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:hK0Fd.12668$hc7.9559@trnddc08...
SNIP
>>>In English, what does the title "Myoho Renge Kyo" say? Ape;)
>>>
>>
>>
>> NERD would say, or at least he would had he an iota of integrity...
>> Saddharma pundarika Sutra, but in the Queens English...
>> Lotus Scripture.
>>
>>
>>
>> Julianlzb87
>
> Thank you SCUM for including me in your reply.
>
> Your loving attentions do not go unnoticed by myself or the Lord!
>
> robert
The Lord? Ape;)
Bill Pfeifer
No, no, no.
It's just that you make sense. I've never come across a Nichie
before with whom a dialog was possible.
Perhaps I've been unfair condemning all Nichies based on all
the samples I've come across so far?
Sid
don't second-guess me, monkey boy!
Sid
How do you know I don't?
> Zen students are usually good for hitting only.
They're not good for much of anything, bubblegummer...
Sid
That's entirely possible.
Check with Julian.
His blinders are off, but it's hard
to work through all this mud, eh?
So, for all intents and purposes,
I'll be happy to be whateverthefukyoucalledme...
"nichie" wasn't it?
Bill Pfeifer
He quotes from "The Restaurant at the End of the Universe":
http://home.earthlink.net/~electrikmonk/Uruler.html
:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
``It's nothing to do with me,'' he said, ``I am not involved with people. The
Lord knows I am not a cruel man.''
``Ah!'' barked Zarniwoop, ``you say `The Lord'. You believe in something!''
``My cat,'' said the man benignly, picking it up and stroking it, ``I call him
The Lord. I am kind to him.''
Bill Pfeifer
Never had much use for foaming-at-the-mouth types.
> So, for all intents and purposes,
> I'll be happy to be whateverthefukyoucalledme...
>
> "nichie" wasn't it?
Yeah. But in a nice way. :-)
naked_ape
"Sid" <Ambas...@Large.org> wrote in message
news:1105499307.3dd421846dea11e4a49d151b936026c9@teranews...
SNIP
> "You look to heaven for help. You look to charms for help. You look
> everywhere for it. There is no help outside of you. And no one else to
> help."
>
> -- Nichiren Daishonin
This is good stuff, but no, I don't buy into the idea that just saying
"Nam-myoho-renge-kyo" has any benefit. Do you? Ape;)
Sid
may i suggest a very mistaken apprehension,
led by popular opinion?
>>So, for all intents and purposes,
>>I'll be happy to be whateverthefukyoucalledme...
>>
>>"nichie" wasn't it?
>
> Yeah. But in a nice way. :-)
so be it.
naked_ape
"Sid" <Ambas...@Large.org> wrote in message
You're the Lord? Monkey Boy;)
Sid
"good stuff"? it's mindless. You don't buy into shaking
yourself awake? With words or without? Your Daoist stuff is
pretty cool, but it can't get through this? What good is it,
then? Why does this simple thing get your rifle on your
shoulder?
Sid
I posted the challenge first, chimp! :)
Robert Epstein
naked_ape wrote:
> "Bill Pfeifer" <billp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:34iuscF...@individual.net...
>
>>"naked_ape" <naked...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>news:PzWEd.15475$lG.14324@trnddc03...
>>
>>>That's it, you simply say "Lotus Scripture (Sutra)" and you attain an
>>>enlightened state? Ape;)
>>
>>Not only that, but chanting that magical formula also gets you what your
>>ego wants; a car, a TV, a hot babe. Or victory over your enemies.
>>Nichies envision themselves having lots of enemies.
>
>
> I could use some more socks. .. Ape;)
>
>
>>
>
>
ha ha
robert
possum
"Stumper" <stu...@newvessel.com> wrote in message
news:d_-cnQ8R9du...@ptd.net...
> Julianlzb87 wrote:
>> On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 13:30:51 -0800, "Bill Pfeifer"
>> <billp...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"naked_ape" <naked...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>news:PzWEd.15475$lG.14324@trnddc03...
>>>
>>>>That's it, you simply say "Lotus Scripture (Sutra)" and you attain an
>>>>enlightened state? Ape;)
>>>
>>>Not only that, but chanting that magical formula also gets you what your
>>>ego wants; a car, a TV, a hot babe. Or victory over your enemies.
>>>Nichies envision themselves having lots of enemies.
>>
>>
>> to defend the Dharma and it's devotees.
>>
>>
>> Julianlzb87
>
> Are you saying they are fanatics?
Are you saying they're fanatics?
have you ever wondered why (this is common in the uk* at least) we
describe individuals as 'devout' catholics or 'staunch' protestants? for
some reason this is never the other way round.
* the exception is in northern ireland, where the adjective usually ends in
'ing', apart from orations and obituaries - let's face it, most of us try to
behave at funerals. if the shorthand question ever arises in a bar in
northern ireland - are you a billy or a tim? - try to work out you're
response in advance. i'm indebted to julian - i think ' i am a dedicant of
nichirin' is a promising answer. off hand, i can't think of a better one.
it hold's the key to not only longer life and the retention of one's
kneecaps, and it also dangles the possibility of sharing drinks with one's
would be assassins or persecutors, and becoming friends with them sharing
several drinks and exchanging tales, as you explain what the hell you're
talking about. (the craic). it mightn't work all over. i don't have a
full picture of the demographics of global sectuarian immaturity,
unfortunately. it could be very exped/skillful means .
possible drawbacks?
better check rules.
remember -the wearing of any item of clothing causing offense to the man
with a gun or the man you believe may have a gun is a perennial wild card,
and can trump skillful means. (homework: is this a golden rule, or a rule
of the golden dark?)
health & safety
do nichi dedicant's have an alcohol policy, which forbids the craic, and if
he breaches it, could blow his cover when he gets pissed with the billys or
tims...even though if he'd refuse a drink, the offensive clothing card comes
in to play. it's starting to look less atrractive...julian, i could be
changing my mind here...
grading
is the situation different for devout nichis, staunch nichies, fanatical
nichies, weekend nichies, fashion accessory nichies, lying nichies, nichie
hypocrites, fucking nichie hippocrites, and fucking cunting nichie
hippocrates in really vile shirts, than for dedicants. i think you've asked
a profoundly important question, stumper. with implications for world peace
and everything. : )
costs
not another night's sleep : )
psm
Julianlzb87
I'm not keen on the Daishonin tag.
He chose the name Nichiren with precision.
He would have freaked at being called Great Saint
which is the meaning of Daishonin.
His mother gave him the name Zennichimaro.
He was then given the name Rencho by the temple
he attended at 16, common practice in priesthood,
and then chose Nichiren, Sun-Lotus for himself,
a revolutionary act, at 30 (1253) when he began to
propagate the Daimoku, Myoho Renge Kyo .
Dai - Great
Moku - Title
Myoho - Wonderful
Renge - Lotus
Kyo - Scripture / Sutra
Gohonzon
Go - great
Honzon - object worthy of respect
Julianlzb87
Julianlzb87
Would it make a difference?
That appears to indicate an interest in form above content.
Julianlzb87
Julianlzb87
<r.ep...@verizon.net> wrote:
Thank you for another campaign medal. It's added to my CV already.
>
>Your loving attentions do not go unnoticed by myself or the Lord!
>
You are the Lords, whatever that is, accredited spokesperson?
Julianlzb87
Sid
Gohonzon - people worshipping other's
understanding. When they make their own
Gohonzon, that's what it's all about.
What a great analogy!
Julianlzb87
Julianlzb87
wrote:
>
>"Bill Pfeifer" <billp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:34iuscF...@individual.net...
>> "naked_ape" <naked...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:PzWEd.15475$lG.14324@trnddc03...
>>>
>>> That's it, you simply say "Lotus Scripture (Sutra)" and you attain an
>>> enlightened state? Ape;)
>>
>> Not only that, but chanting that magical formula also gets you what your
>> ego wants; a car, a TV, a hot babe. Or victory over your enemies.
>> Nichies envision themselves having lots of enemies.
>
>I could use some more socks. .. Ape;)
There should be a big pile outside Evelyn's email inbox.
Julianlzb87
Julianlzb87
wrote:
>
>"Bill Pfeifer" <billp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:34jbfjF...@individual.net...
>> "naked_ape" <naked...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:N7_Ed.5939$C.969@trnddc05...
>>>
>>> "Bill Pfeifer" <billp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:34iuscF...@individual.net...
>>> > "naked_ape" <naked...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>> > news:PzWEd.15475$lG.14324@trnddc03...
>>> >>
>>> >> That's it, you simply say "Lotus Scripture (Sutra)" and you attain an
>>> >> enlightened state? Ape;)
>>> >
>>> > Not only that, but chanting that magical formula also gets you what
>>> > your
>>> > ego wants; a car, a TV, a hot babe. Or victory over your enemies.
>>> > Nichies envision themselves having lots of enemies.
>>>
>>> I could use some more socks. .. Ape;)
>>
>> Talk to Julian. He'll set you up with your very own magic scroll.
>>
>> Magic scroll. Magic chant. What other occult props do they use?
>> Eye of Newt? Wings of Bat?
>
>Julian?
>
I can't help here since I renounced such things upon taking up
Buddhism 20 years back.
You can, however, obtain a copy of the Gohonzon,
at, among other places,
http://dean.edwards.name/lzb87/book13/page02-03.html
(left hand image)
Julianlzb87
Julianlzb87
It is not an object for worshipping, although if one does it would be
less harmfully than anything else I can think of. After all, it was
specifically designed to cope with worshipping since Nichiren was very
much aware of the that human tendency.
It is, akin to a sand mandala, an aide to concentration.
>When they make their own
>Gohonzon, that's what it's all about.
If reading a book you wrote yourself excercises concentration
as much as reading an unfamiliar one, then so be it.
>
>What a great analogy!
>
What a great device!
Julianlzb87
Julianlzb87
Another, tried and tested, saftey mechanism of the Nichiren practice
concerns being approached by menacing strangers in the dark or else
where. Invariably if one suddenly and robustly starts chanting
Nam Myoho Renge Kyo the potential assailant usually stops,
looks at one with a bemused expression and turns to leave often
muttering words to the effect of "What a fucking nutter!"
A small price to pay for an intact... reputation.
> and it also dangles the possibility of sharing drinks with one's
>would be assassins or persecutors, and becoming friends with them sharing
>several drinks and exchanging tales, as you explain what the hell you're
>talking about. (the craic). it mightn't work all over. i don't have a
>full picture of the demographics of global sectuarian immaturity,
>unfortunately. it could be very exped/skillful means .
>
>
>possible drawbacks?
>better check rules.
>
>remember -the wearing of any item of clothing causing offense to the man
>with a gun or the man you believe may have a gun is a perennial wild card,
>and can trump skillful means. (homework: is this a golden rule, or a rule
>of the golden dark?)
>
>health & safety
>do nichi dedicant's have an alcohol policy, which forbids the craic, and if
>he breaches it, could blow his cover when he gets pissed with the billys or
>tims...even though if he'd refuse a drink, the offensive clothing card comes
>in to play. it's starting to look less atrractive...julian, i could be
>changing my mind here...
The only alcohol policy is that one shouldn't pay for other people to
drink. We don't really approve of OTHER people taking drugs since it
does nothing to aide their intelligence. This policy is a little more
relaxed towards members of the opposite sex (same sex for those so
inclined.) If there are drink and drugs to be consumed Nichies are
perfectly capable of doing this unaided.
The Nichiren practice involves renouncing no act that one is inclined
to but only an additional task. Even the additional task can be
skipped by those of a lazy or tired disposition. Basically one does
what ever one feels like, since the essential work has already been
done on the completed hearing of "Myoho Renge Kyo."
A proviso being ones capacity to accept said task as sufficient.
>
>grading
>is the situation different for devout nichis, staunch nichies, fanatical
>nichies, weekend nichies, fashion accessory nichies, lying nichies, nichie
>hypocrites, fucking nichie hippocrites, and fucking cunting nichie
>hippocrates in really vile shirts, than for dedicants. i think you've asked
>a profoundly important question, stumper. with implications for world peace
>and everything. : )
There is only one degree .. and that is there is only one vacancy for
verminous Nichie and since that role is taken for the foreseeable
there is effectively no grading. Note. the role of verminous Nichie
brings with it no special poweres, abilities, etc. since it is purely
a honourary degree like celebrities are given by universities.
It is unknown at present if the degree will be awarded in future.
Julianlzb87