Art, Intentionality, Purpose, Design, Flowering
Kevin Fortin
Something like:
What is the place of making art (of any kind) in the Buddhist
worldview (or, thinking outside the box, in any practice/lifestyle
that sees the usefulness of relaxing mental congestion, fixations,
clouds and other occlusions)?
Does art just happen? Is art to humans as singing is to birds?
Or are singing, painting, writing, acting mostly entrapments
which might through their emotional effects maintain the
entrapments of the makers and the listeners or viewers?
To what extent should there be a "guardian at the gate",
considering that we are filters and distillers of influence?
Or should the making of art that has an emotional effect
be renounced?
Or are we the mostly or somewhat unwitting agents of some greater
invisible patterns, tending toward the common good, where even
art that seems obviously poisonous has its medicinal place?
There is a responsibility in making art, to the extent that people
are susceptible to it and that it has an effect (this I'm sure of).
Kevin Fortin
Gainesville, FL
p.s. -- was just thinking last night that the avoidance of suffering
is a poor motivation for breaking the "karmic cycle" -- suffering is
just one of the many flavors of this banquet, and we shouldn't swear
off this cafeteria just because they're serving chicken livers and
brussels sprouts among the dishes!
bh...@svn.net
Kevin Fortin wrote in:
news://news.uni-stuttgart.de/36D07537...@ufl.edu
> p.s. -- was just thinking last night that the avoidance of suffering
> is a poor motivation for breaking the "karmic cycle" -- suffering is
> just one of the many flavors of this banquet, and we shouldn't swear
> off this cafeteria just because they're serving chicken livers and
> brussels sprouts among the dishes!
When you finally arrive at the notion that you are doomed to live
forever in this recurring cycle of Samsara, then you will have
much more sense of urgency about escaping from the suffering (Dukkha).
But, until then, you have your sweet bird of youth, and all of your
dreams and schemes to carry you along... so, enjoy.
bhava
Mr. Minkfoot
} When you finally arrive at the notion that you are doomed to live
} forever in this recurring cycle of Samsara, then you will have
} much more sense of urgency about escaping from the suffering (Dukkha).
Contradictory.
If you are doomed forever to Samfsara, there is no urgency to escape.
If escape is possible, you are not doomed.
Poor choice of words.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"This mask is on the side of Truth!"
<http://www.woc.org/public/weasel-trax/hole/site/wpix.htm>
bh...@svn.net
Some guy running around in animal fur booties wrote in:
news://news.uni-stuttgart.de/minkfoot-2102991815530001@sdn-ar-0
01mabostp010.dialsprint.net
> In article <36d07...@news1.svn.net>, bh...@svn.net wrote:
>
>} When you finally arrive at the notion that you are doomed to live
>} forever in this recurring cycle of Samsara, then you will have
>} much more sense of urgency about escaping from the suffering (Dukkha).
> Contradictory.
>
> If you are doomed forever to Samfsara, there is no urgency to escape.
>
> If escape is possible, you are not doomed.
>
> Poor choice of words.
If you knew anything about The Teachings of Gotama The Buddha,
you would know that The Teachings of Gotama The Buddha are implicit
in what I was saying.
Specifically implicit was:
"...except by the Noble Eightfold Path and attainment
of Nibbana."
Better have another one of those brownies, minkie.
bhava
Samuel
You said :
" If you are doomed forever to Samfsara, there is no urgency to escape. "
On the contrary of what you said, because we are doomed to the cycle,
a wise man should really have a sense of urgency to escape.
After all, that's why some people practice buddhism. Right .
There are 2 ways to escape. One is to have a light bulb (reach enlightment)
in your head. Good Luck !! The other is to attain the pure land (easy
way)!!
Bye
Sam
Mr. Minkfoot wrote:
> In article <36d07...@news1.svn.net>, bh...@svn.net wrote:
>
> } When you finally arrive at the notion that you are doomed to live
> } forever in this recurring cycle of Samsara, then you will have
> } much more sense of urgency about escaping from the suffering (Dukkha).
>
> Contradictory.
>
> If you are doomed forever to Samfsara, there is no urgency to escape.
>
> If escape is possible, you are not doomed.
>
> Poor choice of words.
>
Sphere
>
>
> Some guy running around in animal fur booties wrote in:
> news://news.uni-stuttgart.de/minkfoot-2102991815530001@sdn-ar-0
> 01mabostp010.dialsprint.net
>
> >
> >} When you finally arrive at the notion that you are doomed to live
> >} forever in this recurring cycle of Samsara, then you will have
> >} much more sense of urgency about escaping from the suffering (Dukkha).
>
> > Contradictory.
> >
> > If you are doomed forever to Samfsara, there is no urgency to escape.
> >
> > If escape is possible, you are not doomed.
> >
> > Poor choice of words.
>
> you would know that The Teachings of Gotama The Buddha are implicit
> in what I was saying.
>
> Specifically implicit was:
>
> "...except by the Noble Eightfold Path and attainment
> of Nibbana."
>
> Better have another one of those brownies, minkie.
>
> bhava
Then you agree that it was a poor
choice of words?
--
Sphere.
-------
Parker has obviously had its fleeting moment of fame!
Oh well, back to being a tree. -- Buddha.
Tang Huyen
I have read studies on creativity and genius, but they are pretty
useless. Einstein says about physics something that applies to any
process of creativity in any discipline, including art and religion, so
here it is: "it should be possible to attain by pure deduction the
description, that is to say, the theory of every natural process,
including those of life, if such process of deduction were not far
beyond the capacity of human thinking. To these elementary laws there
leads no logical path, but only intuition, supported by being
sympathetically in touch with experience [Einfühlung in die Erfahrung].
Gerard Holton, Thematic Origins of Scientific Thought: Kepler to
Einstein, Cambridge, Massachusetts: Harvard University Press, 1973, 377.
What he calls "being sympathetically in touch with experience
[Einfühlung in die Erfahrung]", is more easily known as empathy, or in
the Greek of Stoicism: homologia. In English: by putting oneself in
somebody else's shoes, be this somebody mother nature herself. In
Buddhism, by emptying oneself of ... the self-stuff invested by one
(expression adapted from dharmatroll), one lets her enter oneself and
create art, poetry, philosophy, etc. at her own rhythm. One puts oneself
at her wavelengths, so to speak, and just wait for the spark. Even if
the spark does not light up, the wait is wonderful, anyway. In that
state one is precisely the "mostly or somewhat unwitting agents of some
greater invisible patterns, tending toward the common good, where even
art that seems obviously poisonous has its medicinal place".
Of course this is orthodox Stoicism. Gerard Verbeke, D’Aristote à Thomas
d’Aquin. Antécédents de la pensée moderne, Leuven: Leuven University
Press, 1990, 267-300: "Les Stoïciens et le progrès de l’histoire," here
267, n. 1, about Diodorus of Sicily: "the task of the historian is to
place himself in a universal point of view, encompassing in a single
look all the events of the world: men are separated from each other in
time and space. This does not prevent them from being related among
themselves like the members of one and the same community. It is why
historians do not consider them separately, but as belonging to a unique
order and under this relation they put themselves to the service of
divine providence: one could say that the historian as such places
himself at the point of view of divine providence, that is, at the point
of view of the organic unity of the all. It is the application of the
universal sympathy to events of history: they are not separate entities,
having each its own physiognomy independently of the others; the events
of history are tied together, to the degree that the totality of events
forms an organic unity, as all the parts of the cosmos insert themselves
in a unique organism. It results from this that this unity of events,
such as it is brought to light by the historian, puts in evidence the
unique principle which is at the origin of the evolution of the world:
history is the epiphany of the Logos, which determines the course of
events. In this view, one can say that historical hermeneutics will
attain its proper finality to the extent that it puts in evidence the
coherence of historical events. However it does not involve in the eye
of Posidonius an immediate coherence, tying up such and such event to a
prior event of the same order: it involves an interpretation more
radical, tying all events back to a unique source, which provides them
with an intelligibility which is not their own, but which comes to them
from the universal context in which they are inserted."
For the purpose of "relaxing mental congestion, fixations, clouds and
other occlusions", I would suggest listening to the Brahms symphonies
(Karajan/BPO, 1963, 1977, Sanderling/Dresden, Jochum/LPO,
Walter/Columbia), the Haydn string quartets by Tatrai, Brahms chamber by
Bartok, Beethoven string quartets by Smetana, Beethoven, Tanayev,
Borodin, Vlach, Janacek, Bartok, Richard Strauss by Kempe, Karajan,
Klemperer, Wagner bleeding chunks by Klemperer, Mravinsky, Kubelik,
Knappertsbusch -- all this stuff quite puts me in harmony with myself
and makes the world harmonious to me. In that state I have come up with
many good hits. Hope it does the same to you. Keep me posted.
Tang Huyen
Kevin Fortin wrote:
> What is the question (floundering, I)?
>
> Something like:
>
> What is the place of making art (of any kind) in the Buddhist
> worldview (or, thinking outside the box, in any practice/lifestyle
> that sees the usefulness of relaxing mental congestion, fixations,
> clouds and other occlusions)?
>
> Does art just happen? Is art to humans as singing is to birds?
> Or are singing, painting, writing, acting mostly entrapments
> which might through their emotional effects maintain the
> entrapments of the makers and the listeners or viewers?
>
> To what extent should there be a "guardian at the gate",
> considering that we are filters and distillers of influence?
>
> Or should the making of art that has an emotional effect
> be renounced?
>
> Or are we the mostly or somewhat unwitting agents of some greater
> invisible patterns, tending toward the common good, where even
> art that seems obviously poisonous has its medicinal place?
>
> There is a responsibility in making art, to the extent that people
> are susceptible to it and that it has an effect (this I'm sure of).
>
> Kevin Fortin
> Gainesville, FL
>
JulianLZB87
Tang Huyen
Julian, Thank you for your solicitude.
luck
It was a poor choice to use words.
Is there a choice?
Oreo's MMmmmmmm.
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Kevin Fortin
side issue
Kevin
bh...@svn.net
Kevin wrote in:
news://news.ru/36D4B747...@ufl.edu
On the contrary! Don't you see, Kevin? You inadvertently brought
yourself to the heart of the matter. Didn't you? --
The Buddha said:
"I teach only suffering,
and the end to suffering."
bhava