Excerpt from Nichirens Shogu Mondo Shoj
Julianlzb87
"...various sutras expound partial truths such as
'the mind itself is Buddha and Buddha is none other than the mind.'
The Zen followers have allowed themselves to be led astray by
one or two such sentences and phrases, failing to inquire whether they
represent the Mahayana or the Hinayana, the provisional
or the true teachings, the doctrines that reveal the truth or
the doctrines that conceal it. They merely advance the principle of
non-duality without understanding the principle of duality, and
commit an act of great arrogance, claiming that they themselves are
equal to the Buddha. They are following in the tracks of the Great
Arrogant Brahman of India and imitating the old ways of the Meditation
Master San-chieh of China. But we should recall that the Great
Arrogant Brahman, while still alive, fell into the hell of incessant
suffering, and that San-chieh, after he died, turned into a huge
snake. How frightful, how frightful indeed!"
Julianlzb87
Julianlzb87
Tobasco
"Julianlzb87" wrote
>... and that San-chieh, after he died, turned into a huge
> snake. How frightful, how frightful indeed!"
>
> Julianlzb87
Really? What kind?
signed
The Snakes
naked_ape
"Julianlzb87" <julia...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a6kcr0tum1iafot8r...@4ax.com...
There is no becoming. ALL IS. .. Ape, who read that somewhere.)
Julianlzb87
wrote:
Slow worm, any relation?
Juliablzb7
awaken21
interpreted Zen as " we are all buddhas" which doesn't have that
arrogant connotation. Nichiren seems like a biiter person based on his
writings, I wonder if he was that way in person. Sometimes I think he
might have been the product of Zen's political problems within the
culture, at least partially due to their heavy political involvement.
Robert Epstein
Julianlzb87 wrote:
sounds like the Buddhist version of fire and brimstone. 'repent and
agree with me or suffer eternally'. I turn away from all such ravings.
robert
Julianlzb87
The last two sentences perhaps.
He made none of it up. All the stories are to be found in the Canon
and, yet again, don't forget expedience.
Teaching is often in accordance with time, place... culture.
Julianlzb87
Julianlzb87
<r.ep...@verizon.net> wrote:
Let's try this quote instead then...
"...various sutras expound partial truths such as
'the mind itself is Buddha and Buddha is none other than the mind.'
The Zen followers have allowed themselves to be led astray by
one or two such sentences and phrases, failing to inquire whether
they represent the Mahayana or the Hinayana, the provisional
or the true teachings, the doctrines that reveal the truth or
the doctrines that conceal it. They merely advance the principle of
non-duality without understanding the principle of duality, and
commit an act of great arrogance, claiming that they themselves are
equal to the Buddha."
Julianlzb87
Lee Dillion
> Let's try this quote instead then...
>
> "...various sutras expound partial truths such as
> 'the mind itself is Buddha and Buddha is none other than the mind.'
> The Zen followers have allowed themselves to be led astray by
> one or two such sentences and phrases, failing to inquire whether
> they represent the Mahayana or the Hinayana, the provisional
> or the true teachings, the doctrines that reveal the truth or
> the doctrines that conceal it. They merely advance the principle of
> non-duality without understanding the principle of duality, and
> commit an act of great arrogance, claiming that they themselves are
> equal to the Buddha."
Man, those damn Hinayana folks just keep showing up and ruining the party.
Julianlzb87
wrote:
Yes, some idiot panicked and flushed the Blue Lotus
(Nymphaea caerulea) stash down the pan.
Julianlzb87
Evelyn Ruut
news:C0Std.3511$E_6.1338@trnddc04...
and well one should. check out the nichie newsgroups.......they squabble
amongst themselves mercilessly.
--
Regards,
Evelyn
(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")
> robert
Lee Dillion
> and well one should. check out the nichie newsgroups.......they squabble
> amongst themselves mercilessly.
Then they should feel at home here, eh? Personally, I would like to see
some more Nichiren and Pure Land posters, just so we can give the
zennies and TBists a break for a while.
Julianlzb87
They are practicing.... for you and your slanders and libels.
Julianlzb87
Julianlzb87
<mama-l...@hvc.rr.com> wrote:
Mother Superior Toxic Tongue,
Mother Superior jumped the gun.
Julianlzb87
Julianlzb87
wrote:
>Evelyn Ruut wrote:
Sorry to let you down.
I'm doing what I can.
(please stop joking about TBs and breaks)
Julianlzb87
Lee Dillion
> On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 15:07:00 GMT, "Evelyn Ruut"
>> and well one should. check out the nichie newsgroups.......they
>> squabble amongst themselves mercilessly.
> They are practicing.... for you and your slanders and libels.
Well, see, you may have a problem here Julian, since I am guessing that
you will be unable to establish (in a non-circular way) which truth or
falsity forms the basis of the supposed libel and slander. From what
you quoted previously, you see Nichiren as simply telling truths about
the Zen practitioners as they follow "in the tracks of Great Arrogant
Brahman of India and imitating the old ways of the Meditation Master
San-chieh of China." Truth? Libel? Or simply the way of the sectarian
where one man's truth is another man's libel?
Julianlzb87
wrote:
>Julianlzb87 wrote:
>> On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 15:07:00 GMT, "Evelyn Ruut"
>
>>> and well one should. check out the nichie newsgroups.......they
>>> squabble amongst themselves mercilessly.
>
>> They are practicing.... for you and your slanders and libels.
>
>Well, see, you may have a problem here Julian, since I am guessing that
>you will be unable to establish (in a non-circular way) which truth or
>falsity forms the basis of the supposed libel and slander.
It is pretty clear about me not being Foofie
and trolling Alzheimer support groups.
There is simply no evidence whatsoever.
>From what
>you quoted previously, you see Nichiren as simply telling truths about
>the Zen practitioners as they follow "in the tracks of Great Arrogant
>Brahman of India and imitating the old ways of the Meditation Master
>San-chieh of China." Truth? Libel? Or simply the way of the sectarian
>where one man's truth is another man's libel?
He was merely indicating what was taught in the Sutras.
Julianlzb87
Lee Dillion
> On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 08:35:12 -0700, Lee Dillion <leedi...@yahoo.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Julianlzb87 wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 15:07:00 GMT, "Evelyn Ruut"
>>
>>>>and well one should. check out the nichie newsgroups.......they
>>>>squabble amongst themselves mercilessly.
>>
>>>They are practicing.... for you and your slanders and libels.
>>
>>Well, see, you may have a problem here Julian, since I am guessing that
>>you will be unable to establish (in a non-circular way) which truth or
>>falsity forms the basis of the supposed libel and slander.
>
>
> It is pretty clear about me not being Foofie
> and trolling Alzheimer support groups.
>
> There is simply no evidence whatsoever.
Huh? Oh, that. Yeah, well, I wasn't talking about mundane claims of
who people are or aren't at any one time since there are so many faked
names that pop up. Jen has about 20, followed by a poster named Kenny
who has 18 or so.
>>From what
>>you quoted previously, you see Nichiren as simply telling truths about
>>the Zen practitioners as they follow "in the tracks of Great Arrogant
>>Brahman of India and imitating the old ways of the Meditation Master
>>San-chieh of China." Truth? Libel? Or simply the way of the sectarian
>>where one man's truth is another man's libel?
>
>
> He was merely indicating what was taught in the Sutras.
Of course. That is what they all say. Doesn't get you very far,
though. Unless those bootstraps have wings.
Bill Pfeifer
You're beginning to sound like our friend Son of Man.
Evelyn Ruut
news:31rd57F...@individual.net...
yes, lee.
a comment or two about the alzheimer support group...... it was julian
himself who mentioned the group here, which, having absolutely nothing
whatsoever to do with t.r.b. provided sufficient ground for my conclusion
that julian is best left in my killfile (along with a few other problem
people).
the worst thing one can do for such people is to render their babblings
ineffectual by plonking them. so he can squawk and rail all he wants, but
i don't see it unless a non killfiled poster replies to him.
life is short, why annoy myself with deliberate provocateurs, or the
insincere, or the hopelessly deluded, or those who only know they are alive
when the stimulus of some altercation tells them they are?
i prefer to put that which is constructive, helpful, honest, into my head
and fortunately my newsreader program agrees with that philosophy, as the
feature is built right in.
maybe some other day i will unplonk everybody in there, but for now it stays
as it is.
Evelyn Ruut
agreed.
trb used to have a great diversity of practitioners representing many
buddhist traditions as well as of other faiths altogether. intolerance and
sectarianism drove them all away. the moderated groups are booming with
hundreds of subscribers. nobody has time to waste being abused or
ridiculed. mutual respect brings people out and ridicule drives openness
away.
Bill Pfeifer
That's exactly why I plonked cupcake. Now I only read his bile when
someone quotes him.
So I'm wondering why he's not in your killfile.
In my opinion, he's a lot more vicious than julian.
Julianlzb87
<mama-l...@hvc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>a comment or two about the alzheimer support group...... it was julian
>himself who mentioned the group here, which, having absolutely nothing
>whatsoever to do with t.r.b. provided sufficient ground for my conclusion
>that julian is best left in my killfile (along with a few other problem
>people).
>
All we need now is some kind of kill file that prevents certain
specified users from reading nonsense then you'd be OK.
Julianlzb87
Julianlzb87
<mama-l...@hvc.rr.com> wrote:
>"Lee Dillion" <leedi...@yahoo.net> wrote in message
>news:31r8jbF...@individual.net...
>> Evelyn Ruut wrote:
>>
>>> and well one should. check out the nichie newsgroups.......they
>>> squabble amongst themselves mercilessly.
>>
>> Then they should feel at home here, eh? Personally, I would like to see
>> some more Nichiren and Pure Land posters, just so we can give the zennies
>> and TBists a break for a while.
>
>agreed.
>
>trb used to have a great diversity of practitioners representing many
>buddhist traditions as well as of other faiths altogether. intolerance and
>sectarianism drove them all away.
Not for long. I came back.
>the moderated groups are booming with
>hundreds of subscribers. nobody has time to waste being abused or
>ridiculed.
Or wasting anyone elses time.
> mutual respect brings people out and ridicule drives openness
>away.
As I said, only temporary, I don't care how often you ridicule
"Nichies" except for the fact that it confirms the prediction.
Julianlzb87
Julianlzb87
<mama-l...@hvc.rr.com> wrote:
>"Lee Dillion" <leedi...@yahoo.net> wrote in message
>news:31r8jbF...@individual.net...
>> Evelyn Ruut wrote:
>>
>>> and well one should. check out the nichie newsgroups.......they
>>> squabble amongst themselves mercilessly.
>>
>> Then they should feel at home here, eh? Personally, I would like to see
>> some more Nichiren and Pure Land posters, just so we can give the zennies
>> and TBists a break for a while.
>
>agreed.
>
>trb used to have a great diversity of practitioners representing many
>buddhist traditions as well as of other faiths altogether. intolerance and
>sectarianism drove them all away.
Nothing to do with the lack of talk about a religion called buddhism
then?
Julianlzb87
Evelyn Ruut
news:31rgehF...@individual.net...
i guess different things affect everyone differently. cuppies been around
here for many a year, and yes he gets very offensive now and again, but
there is a subtle difference - when someone deliberately baits you
personally, plays you, sucker punches you knowingly, it isn't the same as
someone who blasts away at everyone universally. i think we should use our
killfiles whenever we think it is a good idea to do so.
Tang Huyen
Julianlzb87 wrote:
> "Evelyn Ruut"
>
> >trb used to have a great diversity of
> >practitioners representing many
> >buddhist traditions as well as of
> >other faiths altogether. intolerance
> >and sectarianism drove them all away.
>
> Nothing to do with the lack of talk
> about a religion called buddhism then?
If anything is to be Buddhist at all, it is
devoid of self and what-belongs-to-self.
That's the defining characteristic of
Buddhism.
There was an apposite exchange recently in
the Tibetan board on this point, a classic.
Somebody:
<<my teacher always uses the term "conflicting
emotions">>
nihsvabhava:
<<****, is your "teacher" a self-improvement one
or a "teacher" of the Buddha's path to liberation?
The Buddha's teachings is not for dealing with "this
emotion of mine conflicting with that emotion," but
the "mine" in the sentence...
Shudder.>>
Tang Huyen
********************************
Subject: Re: New To Buddhism
Date: 1 Dec 2004 18:20:57 -0800
From: om.tare.tuta...@gmail.com (nihsvabhava)
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Newsgroups: alt.religion.buddhism.tibetan
****, is your "teacher" a self-improvement one or a
"teacher" of the Buddha's path to liberation?
The Buddha's teachings is not for dealing with "this
emotion of mine conflicting with that emotion," but
the "mine" in the sentence...
Shudder.
nih
"****" <****@****> wrote in
message news:
<z2krd.17215$Yh2.6...@twister.nyc.rr.com>...
> my teacher always uses the term "conflicting emotions"
Tang Huyen
Julianlzb87 wrote:
> "Evelyn Ruut"
>
> >a comment or two about the alzheimer
> >support group...... it was julian himself
> >who mentioned the group here, which,
> >having absolutely nothing whatsoever
> >to do with t.r.b. provided sufficient
> >ground for my conclusion that julian is
> >best left in my killfile (along with a few
> >other problem people).
>
> All we need now is some kind of kill file
> that prevents certain specified users from
> reading nonsense then you'd be OK.
Some unspecified people need to be
protected from themselves.
Tang Huyen
Tang Huyen
Julianlzb87 wrote:
> "Evelyn Ruut"
>
> >trb used to have a great diversity of
> >practitioners representing many
> >buddhist traditions as well as of
> >other faiths altogether. intolerance
> >and sectarianism drove them all away.
>
> Not for long. I came back.
>
> >the moderated groups are booming
> >with hundreds of subscribers. nobody
> >has time to waste being abused or
> >ridiculed.
>
> Or wasting anyone elses time.
>
> > mutual respect brings people out and
> >ridicule drives openness away.
>
> As I said, only temporary, I don't care
> how often you ridicule "Nichies" except
> for the fact that it confirms the prediction.
Let the mirror of truth reflect claims of truth.
You mentioned in the Nichiren NG the
well-known, obvious self-contradictions:
"Fighting for peace.
Arguing for silence.
Fucking for contraception..
Drinking for sobriety."
To make life entertaining, some people are
totally oblivious to their own self-contradictions.
They should be thanked for their (unconscious)
hilarity.
Tang Huyen
naked_ape
"Tang Huyen" <tanghuyen{delete}@gmail.com[remove]> wrote in message
news:10rh964...@news.supernews.com...
>
>
> Julianlzb87 wrote:
>
>> "Evelyn Ruut"
>>
>> >trb used to have a great diversity of
>> >practitioners representing many
>> >buddhist traditions as well as of
>> >other faiths altogether. intolerance
>> >and sectarianism drove them all away.
>>
>> Nothing to do with the lack of talk
>> about a religion called buddhism then?
>
> If anything is to be Buddhist at all, it is
> devoid of self and what-belongs-to-self.
> That's the defining characteristic of
> Buddhism.
If not selves, what defines the characteristics of Buddhism? Illusions? I
ask because to say that a concept, in this case Buddhism, is devoid of self
and what-belongs-to-self is a contradictory and incongruous statement. ..
Ape;)
Julianlzb87
A stamp collector is a philatelist but what is the name for an
identity collector?
I want to add it to my CV.
Julianlzb87
Julianlzb87
TRB and the other group are linked.
For instance, Evelyn posted virtually identical message to each
group. As far as Google is concerned they are linked through Evelyn..
Probably off topic there too.
Julianlzb87
Lee Dillion
Borg
Julianlzb87
It is difficult when they are dabbling with Magick.
Julianlzb87
Julianlzb87
<tanghuyen{delete}@gmail.com[remove]> wrote:
I wish I'd written "fucking for celibacy" instead.
Julianlzb87
Julianlzb87
Whom's whom?
Julianlzb87
George W. Cherry
> "Evelyn Ruut"
>
> >trb used to have a great diversity of
> >practitioners representing many
> >buddhist traditions as well as of
> >other faiths altogether. intolerance
> >and sectarianism drove them all away.
>
> Nothing to do with the lack of talk
> about a religion called buddhism then?
There are two persistent myths on trb. One is that
Tang drove away all the sincere students of
Buddhism. This myth is patently false, because
there are more posts to trb by Buddhists or would-
be Buddhists when Tang posts to trb.
The other myth (I think it's a myth) is that people
who have battled with Tang leave trb to break up
and fall into bits. Coupled with this myth (?) is that
people are constantly blowing their tops "in full
technicolor and surround sound" here (according
to Tang). I haven't witnessed that.
George
Julianlzb87
<GWCherryHatesG...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>Julianlzb87 wrote:
>
>> "Evelyn Ruut"
>>
>> >trb used to have a great diversity of
>> >practitioners representing many
>> >buddhist traditions as well as of
>> >other faiths altogether. intolerance
>> >and sectarianism drove them all away.
>>
>> Nothing to do with the lack of talk
>> about a religion called buddhism then?
>
>There are two persistent myths on trb. One is that
>Tang drove away all the sincere students of
>Buddhism. This myth is patently false, because
>there are more posts to trb by Buddhists or would-
>be Buddhists when Tang posts to trb.
>
Here, here.
>The other myth (I think it's a myth) is that people
>who have battled with Tang leave trb to break up
>and fall into bits.
I think Scottish Law has the best verdict for that.
Not proven.
>Coupled with this myth (?) is that
>people are constantly blowing their tops "in full
>technicolor and surround sound" here (according
>to Tang). I haven't witnessed that.
>
I've an experience of that.
I'm a Monkey, not a Rat.
Julianlzb87
Radio...@aol.com
simple projection, if i understand buddhism alright,
love,
pema
Radio...@aol.com
everyday, wishful thinking that comes true is considered a spell by
some. besides if it isn't part of your world, why do you care?
love,
pema
Tang Huyen
Julianlzb87 wrote:
> "Evelyn Ruut"
> >
> >i guess different things affect everyone
> >differently. cuppies been around here
> >for many a year, and yes he gets very
> >offensive now and again, but there is a
> >subtle difference - when someone
> >deliberately baits you personally, plays
> >you, sucker punches you knowingly, it
> >isn't the same as someone who blasts
> >away at everyone universally.
>
> Whom's whom?
Odd. Pete/cupcake has been often accused
of aiming his attacks at followers of the
Tibetan religion. And he does it knowingly,
too, to all appearance.
Does that make his targeting "universal"?
Ah!
<<when someone deliberately baits you
personally, plays you, sucker punches you
knowingly>>
Tang Huyen
Phædrus
Tang Huyen
Radio...@aol.com wrote:
> Tang Huyen:
>
> >Julianlzb87:
So you mean that some people need to be
protected from their own projections -- projections
of harm or whatever -- and not from other people
per se?
That's a revolutionary thought there, Pema dear.
Tang Huyen
Phædrus
> On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 17:35:29 -0500, George W. Cherry wrote
> (in article <Nq4ud.470909$wV.398216@attbi_s54>):
> Nor have I. What we look for and want to see, we find. And then we believe
> what we are seeing.
>
> We set ourselves up.
>
> tara
Is there a collection of "ourselves" that I'm somehow
missing? Ah, French! oui/we... ha!
Phædrus
(junk mail)
> I've an experience of that.
> I'm a Monkey, not a Rat.
Hya, monkeyboy! ;)
> Julianlzb87
Julianlzb87
Julianlzb87
wrote:
>On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 17:35:29 -0500, George W. Cherry wrote
>(in article <Nq4ud.470909$wV.398216@attbi_s54>):
>
>Nor have I. What we look for and want to see, we find. And then we believe
>what we are seeing.
>
>We set ourselves up.
>
>tara
Oh, God... not again...
What is your constituency?
Julianlzb87
Phædrus
As ordered, general!
George W. Cherry
"tara" <jpine@{removethis}ftml.net> wrote in message
news:9O4ud.36925$dC3.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 17:35:29 -0500, George W. Cherry wrote
> (in article <Nq4ud.470909$wV.398216@attbi_s54>):
>
> believe
> what we are seeing.
Yes, "folie d'une", or something like that.
> We set ourselves up.
Yep.
George
George W. Cherry
"Tang Huyen" <tanghuyen{delete}@gmail.com[remove]> wrote in message
news:10rhb6j...@news.supernews.com...
You forgot these
Killing to free,
Destroying to democratize.
George
Julianlzb87
Democratising for Freedom.
Julianlzb87
Julianlzb87
wrote:
>On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 18:40:42 -0500, Julianlzb87 wrote
>(in article <8gohr0t8eeqf7g0vj...@4ax.com>):
>huh?
On behalf of whom do you write?
"We" is which subset?
Julianlzb87
naked_ape
"George W. Cherry" <GWCherryHatesG...@alum.mit.edu> wrote in
message news:6I5ud.167379$5K2.165941@attbi_s03...
I read that Reverand Jerry Falwell said we should kill terrorists in the
name of the Lord. .. Ape;)
William Tucker
"tara" <jpine@{removethis}ftml.net> wrote in message
news:9O4ud.36925$dC3.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 17:35:29 -0500, George W. Cherry wrote
> (in article <Nq4ud.470909$wV.398216@attbi_s54>):
>
believe
> what we are seeing.
>
> We set ourselves up.
>
> tara
you are mistaken.
WM
Phædrus
> I read that Reverand Jerry Falwell said we should kill
terrorists in the
> name of the Lord. .. Ape;)
What? We're not?
possum
"Julianlzb87" <julia...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:otghr019m2eqsi2c8...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 09:14:16 -0800, "Bill Pfeifer"
> <billp...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>"Julianlzb87" <julia...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:m8rgr0pjqk2im60h0...@4ax.com...
>>> On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 15:07:00 GMT, "Evelyn Ruut"
>>>
>>> >"Robert Epstein" <r.ep...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>> >news:C0Std.3511$E_6.1338@trnddc04...
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Julianlzb87 wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> Nichiren wrote in the Shogu Mondo Sho:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> "...various sutras expound partial truths such as
>>> >>> 'the mind itself is Buddha and Buddha is none other than the mind.'
>>> >>> The Zen followers have allowed themselves to be led astray by
>>> >>> one or two such sentences and phrases, failing to inquire whether
>>> >>> they
>>> >>> represent the Mahayana or the Hinayana, the provisional
>>> >>> or the true teachings, the doctrines that reveal the truth or
>>> >>> the doctrines that conceal it. They merely advance the principle of
>>> >>> non-duality without understanding the principle of duality, and
>>> >>> commit an
>>> >>> act of great arrogance, claiming that they themselves are
>>> >>> equal to the Buddha. They are following in the tracks of the Great
>>> >>> Arrogant Brahman of India and imitating the old ways of the
>>> >>> Meditation
>>> >>> Arrogant Brahman, while still alive, fell into the hell of incessant
>>> >>> suffering, and that San-chieh, after he died, turned into a huge
>>> >>> snake. How frightful, how frightful indeed!"
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Julianlzb87
>>> >>
>>> >> sounds like the Buddhist version of fire and brimstone. 'repent and
>>> >> agree
>>> >> with me or suffer eternally'. I turn away from all such ravings.
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >and well one should. check out the nichie newsgroups.......they
>>> >squabble
>>> >amongst themselves mercilessly.
>>>
>>> They are practicing.... for you and your slanders and libels.
>>
>>
>
> A stamp collector is a philatelist but what is the name for an
> identity collector?
a blunkett.
>
> I want to add it to my CV.
>
>
> Julianlzb87
possum
"naked_ape" <naked...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:St6ud.3282$lZ6.306@trnddc02...
sure he didn't say tourists?
psm
possum
"possum" <pos...@nospace42.fslife.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cpau8n$qrq$1...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
he could upset a lot of people with that kind of talk...
psm
Phædrus
> "Phædrus" <areté@episteme.org> wrote in message
> news:1102640288.7102456348d570e118527455ac0e76ac@teranews...
> Worked, didn't it. .. Ape;)
hold your breath...
possum
where's the guy with the de-coder ring...?
Phædrus
> where's the guy with the de-coder ring...?
right here.
naked_ape
"Phćdrus" <areté@episteme.org> wrote in message
news:1102640288.7102456348d570e118527455ac0e76ac@teranews...
Worked, didn't it. .. Ape;)
William Tucker
> On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 19:55:49 -0500, William Tucker wrote
> (in article <pu6ud.43498$Qv5....@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com>):
>
> tara
> >
> > WM
it was a pun.
Wm
Julianlzb87
Did I say Can't CV?
Julianlzb87
naked_ape
"possum" <pos...@nospace42.fslife.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cpau8n$qrq$1...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
Oops! Just checked. I did get part of it wrong. The 24th of October CNN
reported on Late Edition that Jerry Falwell had said, "But you've got to
kill the terrorists before the killing stops. And I'm for the president to
chase them all over the world. If it takes 10 years, blow them all away in
the name of the Lord."
>
Robert Epstein
quoted in any of your recent posts? I can't follow the thread that way,
i don't know about others.
robert
=======
awaken21 wrote:
> Yea, alot of people actually still take it that way. I've always
> interpreted Zen as " we are all buddhas" which doesn't have that
> arrogant connotation. Nichiren seems like a biiter person based on his
> writings, I wonder if he was that way in person. Sometimes I think he
> might have been the product of Zen's political problems within the
> culture, at least partially due to their heavy political involvement.
>
Julianlzb87
<r.ep...@verizon.net> wrote:
>are you aware that the prior message that you are replying to is not
>quoted in any of your recent posts? I can't follow the thread that way,
>i don't know about others.
>
>robert
>
>=======
>
>awaken21 wrote:
>
>> Yea, alot of people actually still take it that way. I've always
>> interpreted Zen as " we are all buddhas" which doesn't have that
>> arrogant connotation. Nichiren seems like a biiter person based on his
>> writings, I wonder if he was that way in person.
I don't know where this load of nonsense has popped up from but...
"I have received the rice dumplings wrapped in bamboo leaves, sake,
dried rice, peppers, paper, and other items from the messenger whom
you took the trouble to send....."
The Izu Exile.
"Concerning my present exile, there are two important matters that I
must mention. One is that I feel immense joy. The reason is that this
world is called the saha world, saha meaning endurance..."
The Four Debts of Gratitude.
"Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo. Question: Is it possible, with-out understanding
the meaning of the Lotus Sutra, but merely by chanting the five or
seven characters of Nam-myoho-renge-kyo once a day, once a month, or
simply once a year, once a decade, or once in a lifetime, to avoid
being drawn into trivial or serious acts of evil, to escape falling
into the four evil paths, and instead to eventually reach the stage of
non-regression? Answer: Yes, it is."
The Daimoku of the Lotus Sutra.
"I understand the circumstances of your pregnancy. In response to your
request, I have prepared the pro-1 tective agent, choosing from among
the lore that has been transmitted to me. You must be careful to have
firm faith. For example, even the most ex-cellent medicine will have
little effect if poison is added to it. Even a sword will be of no use
to a coward. Above all, both you and your hus-band are upholders of
the Lotus Su-tra. You will surely bear a jewel of a child who is going
to inherit the seed for the propagation of the Lotus Sutra. I
wholeheartedly congratulate you. The child is the one who will inherit
both your physical and spiritual aspects. How could you possibly
suffer a pro-longed labor? I expect that the child will be born
quickly. If you take this medicine, there can be no doubt. Even the
darkness becomes bright when a lantern is lit, and even muddy water
becomes clear when the moon shines on it."
The Easy Delivery of a Fortune Child.
"I understand that your baby has been born. Congratulations! In
particular, today is the eighth day of the month. Not only have you
had your baby, but on such an auspicious day! The fulfillment of your
wish is now complete, just like the tide at the high watermark or the
blossoming of flowers in a spring meadow. Thus, I have wasted no time
in giving her a name. Please call her Tsukimaro. What is more, Great
Bodhisattva Hachiman, the sovereign deity of this country, was born on
the eighth day of the fourth month. Shakyamuni Bud-dha, the lord of
teachings in this saha world, was also born on the eighth day of the
fourth month. Though the month is different, your baby girl was also
born on the eighth day. She could well be the reincarnation of
Shakya-muni Buddha or Hachiman. Since I am an ordinary man, I have no
way of knowing for certain, but I am con-vinced that the reason for
this auspi-cious birth is that I gave you the pro tective agent. How
happy you, her parents, must be! In celebration, you have kindly sent
me rice cakes, sake, and one thousand coins. I have also re-ported
this to the object of devotion and the ten demon daughters. When the
Buddha was born in this world, there were thirty-two auspicious 188 2
phenomena, as is recorded in a work called The Record of Wonders in
the Book of Chou. Immediately following his birth, Shakyamuni Buddha
took seven steps, opened his mouth, and uttered the words, expressed
in sixteen charac-ters, "Throughout heaven and earth, I alone am
worthy of respect. The three-fold world is a place of suffering from
which I will save all living beings." Tsukimaro must have chanted
Nam-myoho-renge-kyo with her very first cry at birth. The Lotus Sutra
speaks of 3 "the true aspect of all phenomena." T'ien-t'ai said,
"Voices do the Buddha's 4 work." This is also what I think. The deaf
cannot hear the thunder, and the blind cannot see the light of the sun
and moon. But I am quite certain that the ten demon daughters must be
together side by side, giving the baby her first bath and watching
over her growth. Let me heartily congratulate you. I can imagine your
joy. I have respect-fully reported this to the ten demon daughters and
to the Sun Goddess. I am too excited to write any more. I will be
writing you again. Respectfully, Nichiren"
The Birth of Tsukimaro.
" You went to the trouble to send me by messenger a donation for the
service for your deceased ances-tors of one to of polished rice as
white as snow, a bamboo container of oil like well-aged sake, and one
thou-sand coins. In particular, I was very much moved by the contents
of your letter."
"The Origin of the Service for Deceased Ancestors."
Not spot of bitterness.
>> Sometimes I think he
>> might have been the product of Zen's political problems within the
>> culture, at least partially due to their heavy political involvement.
Of course, just as he was the product of one of his
great-great-great-great-great-great grannies shags.
The person who believes that religion and politics
shouldn't mix understands neither.
Julianlzb87
Allen L. Barker
[Sorry if you get more than one copy of this. Different news
server. My posts haven't been going out right lately, in a
way that reminds me of 1997. Google also just re-organized
its newsgroup archiving with a definition of "relevance" that
is questionable at best. Curious how that jibes with certain
"official" pronouncements...]
Julianlzb87 wrote:
> Nichiren wrote in the Shogu Mondo Sho:
>
> "...various sutras expound partial truths such as
> 'the mind itself is Buddha and Buddha is none other than the mind.'
> The Zen followers have allowed themselves to be led astray by
> one or two such sentences and phrases, failing to inquire whether they
> represent the Mahayana or the Hinayana, the provisional
> or the true teachings, the doctrines that reveal the truth or
> the doctrines that conceal it. They merely advance the principle of
> non-duality without understanding the principle of duality,
Mumon's Postscript
http://www.pinehillzendo.org/mumonkan/
The sayings and doings of the Buddha and the patriarchs have been set
down in their original form.
Nothing superfluous has been added by the author, who has taken the lid
off his head and exposed his eyeballs.
Your direct realization is demanded; it should not be sought through others.
If you are a man of realization, you will immediately grasp the point at
the slightest mention of it.
There is no gate for you to go through; there are no stairs for you to
ascend.
You pass the checkpoint, squaring your shoulders, without asking
permission of the keeper.
Remember Gensha's saying, "No-gate is the gate of emancipation;
no-meaning is the meaning of the man of the Way."
And Hakuun says, "Clearly you know how to talk of it, but why can't you
pass this simple, specific thing?"
However, all this kind of talk is like making a mud pie with milk and
butter.
If you have passed the Mumonkan, you can make a fool of Mumon.
If not, you are betraying yourself.
It is easy to know the Nirvana mind but difficult to attain the wisdom
of differentiation.
When you have realized this wisdom, peace and order will reign over your
land.
> and commit an act of great arrogance, claiming that they themselves
> are equal to the Buddha. They are following in the tracks of the Great
> Arrogant Brahman of India and imitating the old ways of the Meditation
> Master San-chieh of China. But we should recall that the Great
> Arrogant Brahman, while still alive, fell into the hell of incessant
> suffering, and that San-chieh, after he died, turned into a huge
> snake. How frightful, how frightful indeed!"
As far as Nichiren and his relationship with Zen, you really
have to understand him in the context of Japan at the time.
Zen is just a word, a label. At times it has been abused,
just like words such as Christianity and Islam have been abused
at times. At times many Zen temples have become corrupt; that
is just a historical fact. At times, people claiming to act
under the word Zen have been pure charlatans or far worse. Zen
foxes are nothing new, but there are "sincere" foxes who just
misunderstand and then there are the wilier foxes with "evil"
intentions.
Words and meaning, meaning and words. What abuses
have been committed in the name of Christianity over the
centuries -- or even recently? Which are currently being
committed? If David Koresh called himself a Christian, does
that reflect on all people using that word-label? If
a mass-murderer like Hitler claims that Gott is mitt him,
does that reflect on all people who also use that common
word-label? Too many people *can't* see past this surface
level. As far as the teaching pillar of the three pillars
of Zen, that is perhaps a starting point for many people.
--
Allen Barker
http://www.datafilter.com
Julianlzb87
R.H. Blyth devoted most of Volume IV of his
"Zen and Zen classics " to Mumon, (and the Hekiganroku)
and very good it is too.
With respect to Nichiren and Zen, I have always wondered
if the death of Dogen played any part in Nichiren climbing
the hillside that morning to chant the Daimoku for the first
time prior to giving his lecture that led to his being expelled
from his temple and persecuted there on in.
It is not beyond possibility that he had encountered Dogen
and his passing may have been the final straw in Nichirens
disillusion with the status quo.
Does anyone know the exact date of Dogens passing?
Nichiren began propagating Myoho Renge Kyo in April 1253.
Daimoku - Dai= great Moku= name.
Nichiren - Nichi= Sun Ren= Lotus
Julianlzb87
Lee Dillion
> Daimoku - Dai= great Moku= name.
>
> Nichiren - Nichi= Sun Ren= Lotus
Cool. Fun with names.
Lee Dillion - Lee= Meadow dweller Dillion= De Lyon= of Lyon
I think this means I am a cheese eating surrender monkey who dwells in
the lowlands.
Allen L. Barker
--
Mind Control: TT&P ==> http://www.datafilter.com/mc
Home page: http://www.datafilter.com/alb
Allen Barker
Awaken21
Does it show on this one?
Awaken21
> Nichiren wrote in the Shogu Mondo Sho:
>
> "...various sutras expound partial truths such as
> 'the mind itself is Buddha and Buddha is none other than the mind.'
> The Zen followers have allowed themselves to be led astray by
> one or two such sentences and phrases, failing to inquire whether
they
> represent the Mahayana or the Hinayana, the provisional
> or the true teachings, the doctrines that reveal the truth or
> the doctrines that conceal it. They merely advance the principle of
> commit an act of great arrogance, claiming that they themselves are
> equal to the Buddha. They are following in the tracks of the Great
> Arrogant Brahman of India and imitating the old ways of the
Meditation
> Master San-chieh of China. But we should recall that the Great
> Arrogant Brahman, while still alive, fell into the hell of incessant
> suffering, and that San-chieh, after he died, turned into a huge
> snake. How frightful, how frightful indeed!"
>
Awaken21
> On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 03:59:32 GMT, Robert Epstein
> <r.ep...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >are you aware that the prior message that you are replying to is not
> >quoted in any of your recent posts? I can't follow the thread that
way,
> >i don't know about others.
> >
> >robert
> >
> >=======
> >
> >awaken21 wrote:
> >
> >> Yea, alot of people actually still take it that way. I've always
> >> interpreted Zen as " we are all buddhas" which doesn't have that
> >> arrogant connotation. Nichiren seems like a biiter person based on
his
> >> writings, I wonder if he was that way in person.
>
> I don't know where this load of nonsense has popped up from but...
>
> "I have received the rice dumplings wrapped in bamboo leaves, sake,
> dried rice, peppers, paper, and other items from the messenger whom
> you took the trouble to send....."
> The Izu Exile.
>
> "Concerning my present exile,
Exile definately implies political power.
> there are two important matters that I
> must mention. One is that I feel immense joy. The reason is that this
> world is called the saha world, saha meaning endurance..."
> The Four Debts of Gratitude.
>
> "Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo. Question: Is it possible, with-out
understanding
> the meaning of the Lotus Sutra, but merely by chanting the five or
> seven characters of Nam-myoho-renge-kyo once a day, once a month, or
> simply once a year, once a decade, or once in a lifetime, to avoid
> being drawn into trivial or serious acts of evil, to escape falling
> into the four evil paths, and instead to eventually reach the stage
of
> non-regression? Answer: Yes, it is."
Yes it is. On this Nichiren and I agree. I don't agree with Nichiren
that the experience is limited to only the syllables
Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo, I think there are a host of other meditative
chants that will serve the same purpose.
Still no proof anything in either direction.
>
> >> Sometimes I think he
> >> might have been the product of Zen's political problems within the
> >> culture, at least partially due to their heavy political
involvement.
>
> Of course, just as he was the product of one of his
> great-great-great-great-great-great grannies shags.
>
>
> The person who believes that religion and politics
> shouldn't mix understands neither.
Agreed. Where I have a split is with religious mudslinging when
practiced by either side. It usually starts with "Now <insert a
religion> believes <insert slightly distorted view of that religions
teachings>. That is wrong because in our religion its says <insert
convenient quote from your religion which fixes the distortion you
created earlier>".
Particularly when the sides are members of the same religion, it seems
more like being rude to your own family. I'm less than patient with
that behaviour and I see that kind of silliness taken on by individuals
and leaders within every religion I've ever been exposed to. I'd rather
hear why you think you are right, rather than why someone else may be
wrong anyway.
Phædrus
Religions are viruses, without exception. All belief systems
(constructions of non-evidential ideas; memes) are forms of
mental illness. They should be recognized and treated as
such. Treatment consists of immunization in the form of
early education.
By your reasoning, one should be polite enough never to
discuss Islamic extremism, the idiocy of paternal
creator-Gods, the stubbornly stupid blindness of
Creationists, cults and cultists, faith healers,
chiropractors and other quacks, or the gullibility of the
vast hordes of Pseuddhists (including Tibetans, many
Theravadins, Nichirenners, homeopathy believers, etc., etc.).
The argument that these memes do no harm falls flat when one
examines the damage - robbery, murder and rape - that they
condone, support, and protect in promulgating themselves.
All paths don't lead to the mountain top - that's a
"cheese-eating surrender monkey" (credit to Jonno) cop-out.
Happily, most 'buddhist' paths merely drive a few people
nuts, give them AIDS, or bilk them out of their money,
without causing major wars.
So learn to call a meme a meme and if you meet one on the
path, stomp its guts out and hang them in a nearby tree for
all to see.
Awaken21
Actually spiritual practices are said by scientists who study human
behavior to be mostly a stabilizing factor and education level has no
bearing on extent of religious faith or involvement, the people who who
are violent and aggresive and uncaring etc. are at about the same
percentage as in any group, so unless you've got something other than
the anecdotal evidence.....
>
> By your reasoning, one should be polite enough never to
> discuss Islamic extremism, the idiocy of paternal
> creator-Gods, the stubbornly stupid blindness of
> Creationists, cults and cultists, faith healers,
> chiropractors and other quacks, or the gullibility of the
> vast hordes of Pseuddhists (including Tibetans, many
> Theravadins, Nichirenners, homeopathy believers, etc., etc.).
We were talking about strong leaders in a public forum, not personal
one on one conversations. As a pratical matter I'd happily discuss the
subjects, but I'd be careful about where and when I discussed them and
with whom. Watching my mouth is a standard part of spriritual practice
for me, nothing to do with being polite, more to do with being the
cause of suffering.
>
> The argument that these memes do no harm falls flat when one
> examines the damage - robbery, murder and rape - that they
> condone, support, and protect in promulgating themselves.
> All paths don't lead to the mountain top - that's a
> "cheese-eating surrender monkey" (credit to Jonno) cop-out.
> Happily, most 'buddhist' paths merely drive a few people
> nuts, give them AIDS, or bilk them out of their money,
> without causing major wars.
And for many it makes them happy, and leads to a fullfilling life.
Individual people in every group experience have serious issues,
including people who persue religion or associate with a particular
religion. It's not a function of religion, it's a function of people
being people.
Awaken21
Actually spiritual practices are said by scientists who study human
behavior to be mostly a stabilizing factor and education level has no
bearing on extent of religious faith or involvement, the people who who
are violent and aggresive and uncaring etc. are at about the same
percentage as in any group, so unless you've got something other than
the anecdotal evidence.....
>
> By your reasoning, one should be polite enough never to
> discuss Islamic extremism, the idiocy of paternal
> creator-Gods, the stubbornly stupid blindness of
> Creationists, cults and cultists, faith healers,
> chiropractors and other quacks, or the gullibility of the
> vast hordes of Pseuddhists (including Tibetans, many
> Theravadins, Nichirenners, homeopathy believers, etc., etc.).
We were talking about strong leaders in a public forum, not personal
one on one conversations. As a pratical matter I'd happily discuss the
subjects, but I'd be careful about where and when I discussed them and
with whom. Watching my mouth is a standard part of spriritual practice
for me, nothing to do with being polite, more to do with not being the
cause of needless or pointless suffering.
>
> The argument that these memes do no harm falls flat when one
> examines the damage - robbery, murder and rape - that they
> condone, support, and protect in promulgating themselves.
> All paths don't lead to the mountain top - that's a
> "cheese-eating surrender monkey" (credit to Jonno) cop-out.
> Happily, most 'buddhist' paths merely drive a few people
> nuts, give them AIDS, or bilk them out of their money,
> without causing major wars.
And for many it makes them happy, and leads to a fullfilling life.
Julianlzb87
wrote:
>Awaken21 wrote:
>
>> Julianlzb87 wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 03:59:32 GMT, Robert Epstein
>>><r.ep...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>are you aware that the prior message that you are replying to is not
>>
>>
>>>>quoted in any of your recent posts? I can't follow the thread that
>>
>> way,
>>
>>>>i don't know about others.
>>>>
>>>>robert
>>>>
>>>>=======
>>>>
>>>>awaken21 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Yea, alot of people actually still take it that way. I've always
>>>>>interpreted Zen as " we are all buddhas" which doesn't have that
>>>>>arrogant connotation. Nichiren seems like a biiter person based on
>>
>> his
>>
>>>>>writings, I wonder if he was that way in person.
>>>
>>>I don't know where this load of nonsense has popped up from but...
>>>
>>>"I have received the rice dumplings wrapped in bamboo leaves, sake,
>>>dried rice, peppers, paper, and other items from the messenger whom
>>>you took the trouble to send....."
>>>The Izu Exile.
>>>
>>>"Concerning my present exile,
>>
>>
>> Exile definately implies political power.
>>
As if there isn't everywhere.
Exile definitely implies resistance to political power.
It is the ones who aren't exiled that are the dodgy ones.
>>
>>>there are two important matters that I
>>>must mention. One is that I feel immense joy. The reason is that this
>>>world is called the saha world, saha meaning endurance..."
>>>The Four Debts of Gratitude.
>>>
>>>"Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo. Question: Is it possible, with-out
>>
>> understanding
>>
>>>the meaning of the Lotus Sutra, but merely by chanting the five or
>>>seven characters of Nam-myoho-renge-kyo once a day, once a month, or
>>>simply once a year, once a decade, or once in a lifetime, to avoid
>>>being drawn into trivial or serious acts of evil, to escape falling
>>>into the four evil paths, and instead to eventually reach the stage
>>
>> of
>>
>>>non-regression? Answer: Yes, it is."
>>
>>
>> Yes it is. On this Nichiren and I agree. I don't agree with Nichiren
>> that the experience is limited to only the syllables
>> Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo, I think there are a host of other meditative
>> chants that will serve the same purpose.
Well I think it is clear that you haven't really studied Nichirens
work.
As for other host of practices that you have experienced...
I'm glad that I only needed one to get to the same place as you.
I rather know one practice well than many superficially.
I'm glad that I have stuck to one for 20 years rather than
a week here, a year there, etc.
Well you started this so lets see your proof.
>>
>>>>>Sometimes I think he
>>>>>might have been the product of Zen's political problems within the
>>>>>culture, at least partially due to their heavy political
>>
>> involvement.
>>
>>>Of course, just as he was the product of one of his
>>>great-great-great-great-great-great grannies shags.
>>>
>>>
>>>The person who believes that religion and politics
>>>shouldn't mix understands neither.
>>
>>
>> Agreed. Where I have a split is with religious mudslinging when
>> practiced by either side. It usually starts with "Now <insert a
>> religion> believes <insert slightly distorted view of that religions
>> teachings>. That is wrong because in our religion its says <insert
>> convenient quote from your religion which fixes the distortion you
>> created earlier>".
>> Particularly when the sides are members of the same religion, it seems
>> more like being rude to your own family. I'm less than patient with
>> that behaviour and I see that kind of silliness taken on by individuals
>> and leaders within every religion I've ever been exposed to. I'd rather
>> hear why you think you are right, rather than why someone else may be
>> wrong anyway.
>
>Religions are viruses, without exception.
You are not in a position to judge mine. Seek you own salvation.
>(constructions of non-evidential ideas; memes) are forms of
>mental illness. They should be recognized and treated as
>such. Treatment consists of immunization in the form of
>early education.
>
>By your reasoning, one should be polite enough never to
>discuss Islamic extremism, the idiocy of paternal
>creator-Gods, the stubbornly stupid blindness of
>Creationists, cults and cultists, faith healers,
>chiropractors and other quacks, or the gullibility of the
>vast hordes of Pseuddhists (including Tibetans, many
>Theravadins, Nichirenners, homeopathy believers, etc., etc.).
>
>The argument that these memes do no harm falls flat when one
>examines the damage - robbery, murder and rape - that they
>condone, support, and protect in promulgating themselves.
>All paths don't lead to the mountain top - that's a
>"cheese-eating surrender monkey" (credit to Jonno) cop-out.
>Happily, most 'buddhist' paths merely drive a few people
>nuts, give them AIDS, or bilk them out of their money,
>without causing major wars.
>
>So learn to call a meme a meme and if you meet one on the
>path, stomp its guts out and hang them in a nearby tree for
>all to see.
Let's hear the truth then?
What should one do next?
Julianlzb87
Awaken21
> On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:15:11 -0500, Phædrus <areté@episteme.org>
Yes, that would be true. I did read his quotes on the chanting part
though. They were secondary scources and may have been misquoted or out
of context, I wouldn't know.
> As for other host of practices that you have experienced...
> I'm glad that I only needed one to get to the same place as you.
Lucky you. How do you know we are same place?
>
> I rather know one practice well than many superficially.
> I'm glad that I have stuck to one for 20 years rather than
> a week here, a year there, etc.
You have no context from which to make this statement. You'd have to
know my age and time spent at each at the very least, no? Same
practice for 20 years? That makes you a beginner. I've got a few more
years to go to be a beginner. :-)
I started it by wondering and asking questions actually, I never
offered proof and do not plan to change that policy at this late date.
This one and the paragraph that follows wasn't me Julian, it was
Phaedrus' post....
Phædrus
Certainly, religious beliefs seem to fulfill a psychological
need for something. Why and how this need continues beyond
childhood isn't understood and hasn't been investigated (to
my knowledge). That religion is a surrogate for such a need
seems obvious, but even that hasn't been proven. Whether it
makes people "happy" is also a matter of conjecture rather
than research. From my own research, your compulsion to
accept/tolerate other memes is an indicator that your memes
wish to propagate through that mechanism. It's not uncommon.
I've not seen that religion makes people "happy". Au
contraire, I've seen them mostly unhappy *in spite* of
religion. What religion seems to do is let them resign
themselves to a state of unhappiness, or offer a happy
reward for enduring it - hardly the objective of buddhism.
As for "people being people", that's another "cheese-eating
surrender monkey" cop-out, indicative of a failure of
rational thought. The irrational programming that goes into
a child is enormous. The result of it isn't very sane, and
is easily observed. Your (paraphrased) assertion (that
people are just a bunch of savages who need religion to
endure life) is without an iota of provable merit.
If you carefully consider and observe the actions of memes,
you will be able to see exactly how and why they are able to
propogate in a society of undisciplined and uninformed minds.
Phædrus
What truth?
And stop calling me "daddy"...
Julianlzb87
wrote:
I don't know but Awaken21 has it,
and a tardis (time machine.)
Bumped into a nasty piece of work in 13th century Japan,
apparently, I suppose he might have pinched it.
>And stop calling me "daddy"...
OK pater.
Julianlzb87
Phædrus
<whatever the hell - it's gone...>
Julian:
>> Let's hear the truth then?
>>
>>>What should one do next?
Wolfie:
>>What truth?
Julian:
> I don't know but Awaken21 has it,
> and a tardis (time machine.)
Is there a retardis, then? if Atlantis sunk and left it
behind, must be here someplace...
Ah! the White House! Of course!
> Bumped into a nasty piece of work in 13th century Japan,
> apparently, I suppose he might have pinched it.
wazzat?
bumped it, didja?
must be 'orrible planefare to get that far back...
(holiday time machine lands in africa)
"o! look mum! bonobos!
wot'r they doin', then?"
"fuckin', dearie."
"eh?"
"like you and charlotte."
"o, right.
not so many left now, izzer?"
"wrong port, so t' speak, dearie..."
"wrong wot?"
"nevermind..."
>>And stop calling me "daddy"...
>
> OK pater.
insolent brat...
Julianlzb87
wrote:
>Julianlzb87 wrote:
>
><whatever the hell - it's gone...>
>
>Julian:
>>> Let's hear the truth then?
>>>
>>>>What should one do next?
>
>Wolfie:
>>>What truth?
>
>Julian:
>> I don't know but Awaken21 has it,
>> and a tardis (time machine.)
>
>Is there a retardis, then? if Atlantis sunk and left it
>behind, must be here someplace...
>
>Ah! the White House! Of course!
>
>> Bumped into a nasty piece of work in 13th century Japan,
>> apparently, I suppose he might have pinched it.
>
>wazzat?
>bumped it, didja?
>must be 'orrible planefare to get that far back...
>
I didn't. It was Awaken21 who met Nichiren and found him bitter.
A case for taking care over what one sucks I reckon.
Julianlzb87
Phædrus
> I didn't. It was Awaken21 who met Nichiren and found him bitter.
> A case for taking care over what one sucks I reckon.
Ah, I'm not much for following such trails, with so many
other things happening. One can find as many ghosts as one
can chase. When Harry Potter grows up, there'll be another
J.K. Rowling along.
My commentary on memes still stands. I wasn't accusing you
of anything. Merely playing, as you well know.
Julianlzb87
wrote:
Why not? What am I supposed to do now?
Redundant scapegoat...
Julianlzb87
Phædrus
exactly...
David Salo
<mama-l...@hvc.rr.com> wrote:
> trb used to have a great diversity of practitioners representing many
> buddhist traditions as well as of other faiths altogether. intolerance and
> away.
Too true. What has always made this a difficult group to read
(going back several years) has been a few people who enjoy intimidating
others and forcing their point of view (if they happen to have one)
down others' throats, often with coarse invective. They play at being
"Zen-master", pretending that they are teaching something,
"unattachment" or thick-skinnedness perhaps, by being gratuitously
insulting. You might expect a real teacher, however, to realize that
he's not getting through to people who either killfile him or leave the
ng altogether; such a lack of foresight doesn't give me a lot of
confidence in these "masters".
I'm afraid there are also some people, getting their information
from I don't know what source, who have come to think of Buddhism as a
cold, mechanical, mathematical religion which justifies emotional
isolation, and who either have never read or ignore teachings about
mettā and compassion. Maybe they are people who were badly hurt and
are looking for shelter from feeling anything at all; maybe they are
just trying to find excuses for irresponsibility for their actions. I
don't know. But kindness is not a dispensable part of Buddhism, but
integral to the whole structure; the mind that is closed to kindness or
that founds itself upon a kernel of hostility cannot make any progress
in any direction. But very ordinary persons, without any great
intellectual attainments, who have no skill with words and could not
defend a philosophical position in a debate, may understand how to be
kind -- and they will be better Buddhists than the aggressive, hostile
intellectual gymnast.
There's of course a problem with people who have contempt for
"Hinayanists" or "Vajrayanis" or any other group of Buddhists. But
people who talk like that are really only showing a symptom of a deeper
problem: they want to identify with a "superior" group because it makes
them feel superior themselves. I don't doubt but that within their own
groups they have subgroups that they feel are superior, and subgroup
within that, until it comes down to them personally being the
Arch-emperor of the Universe, in their own estimation: the best of the
best of the best. How else could they have authority to slam other
people mercilessly?
My own position is that samsāra is like a great river in flood,
bearing away people, houses, cars, cattle, cats alike without
discrimination. And whether you're floating on a raft or barely
keeping your head above water, we are all caught up in the same
disaster; what justification is there for floating by on the one little
stick we're clinging to, and laughing at another person who is
drowning? We need to help each other.
David
Julianlzb87
wrote:
>In article <ZN%td.24612$ld2.10...@twister.nyc.rr.com>, "Evelyn Ruut"
><mama-l...@hvc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> We need to help each other.
>
I don't believe we "need" help each other
but it is clear you want help.
I'd rather skip your "help" until you sort yourself out.
Julianlzb87
Julianlzb87
<mama-l...@hvc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>"David Salo" <ds...@NOTREAL.net> wrote in message
>news:111220040624283270%ds...@NOTREAL.net...
>Beautifully and truthfully spoken, david.
>
Maybe, although the jury is out.
For me it is off topic for TRB.
May I suggest posting to alt.vampire.support as more appropriate?
.
Julianlzb87
Evelyn Ruut
"David Salo" <ds...@NOTREAL.net> wrote in message
news:111220040624283270%ds...@NOTREAL.net...
Beautifully and truthfully spoken, david.
in reading the words of the dhammapada, buddha stated clearly and simply;
"In this world
Hate never yet dispelled hate.
Only love dispels hate.
This is the law,
Ancient and inexhaustible.
You too shall pass away.
Knowing this, how can you quarrel?"
--
Regards,
Evelyn
(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")