baha'i Cult Agents on the Payroll
Saoshyant6
In the name of God the Glorified, the Holy!
It would seem that hard financial times have hit Mr Duran and so in
order to recuperate the massive losses he sustained in 1999 he has
jumped on the ao cult bandwagon and is attempting to recuperate his
losses that way by enlisting himself through this vicious cult and
thereby make whatever ends he is not otherwise successful in joining
meet. I wonder if $10,000.00 (or whatever he is being paid for his
services rendered) is really worth the effort of such songs and dances
as Duran is now performing for us. People who have no integrity (or a
shred of sanity in Ali Duran's case) will sell themselves for a buck.
One sees it everyday, it is to be expected in these perverse times we
live in, and TRB is full of such people, i.e. the assorted motley crew
of baha'i cult covenant police roaming the NG.
Of course what is to be expected of such an organization that hires
hitmen to kill the Dan Jordans, and then first rumour mongers that
Muslim assassins did it and then changes its tune and shamelessly
states that it was a homosexual liason gone wrong. What do you call an
organization which incites mentally unstable individuals to murder the
Hedi Ma'anis of the world (a man who was known for his criticisms of
the cultism of the ao). The track record of this cult is ten miles
long and goes all the way back to the Baghdad days when two Letters of
the Living and several followers of the Fruit of Eternity where
viciously murdered by the followers of the lying claimant (moda'i-ye
kazzaab): Husayn Ali Nuri. It goes back to Edirne when the lying
claimant (moda'i-ye kazzaab) decietfully claimed that he was poisoned
by agents of His Holiness the Second Unity, the Morning of Eternity,
when nothing of the sort ever occured. It goes back to Akka, Palestine
when the ignorant common ruffian (jaahil) barber of the lying
claimant, Muhammad Salmani, took a shovel to the head of and hence
murdered the Witness and innocent defender of the Cause of Light,
Siyyid Muhammad Isfahani, for no reason whatsoever. It goes back to
the Constitutional Revolution when Abbas Effendi was quite willing to
sit back and do nothing (and even applaud) while the colonialist
forces of Britian and Russia tore the movement for the freedom,
democracy and independence of my homeland (Iran) to pieces. It goes
back to the days of the last Pahlavi Shah when the Habib Sabets, Dr
Karim Ayadis and crooked crime bosses such as Hojabr Yazdani, and the
like, where lauded as heroes and exemplars by this vicious and corrupt
cult and its community.
What is to be expected, really? It is, after all, a baha'i vocation
that ends justify means and that therefore lying, deciet, obfuscation,
character assassination, and destroying peoples lives, livelihoods and
families is justified. These people cry to human rights organizations
throughout the world that they are persecuted by the mullocracy in
Iran. I ask any fair minded person to come to talk.religion.bahai and
take a good look at what these people are doing and saying about the
Bayaniyyah (the movement I have spawned) and tell me if it is anything
other than persecution. I ask any fair minded person to come to the
Gold Coast in Australia and see for themselves what this vicious cult
is attempting to do and tell me if it is any different (if not worse)
than what the mullocracy is apparently doing to the baha'is of
Iranians?
O fair minded people, and especially my fellow Iranian compatriots,
beware of these Haifan baha'is. While today they show you a face of a
Mazlum (wronged one) when the mask is one day taken off you will see
for yourselves the kind of marauding wolves in sheeps clothing that
these people really are.
Nima Saoshyant
Corax
You are certainly giving yourself the needed rope with which you shall hang yourself.
For the record, I certainly have no need of 10,000 dollars from the Bahai Faith AO, and am the paid agent of nobody. Having no small experience with you and having some peronal insight into history of your messianic delusions, I was only trying to rescue Star* from your evil little game you mischievous imp. My mistake, obviously.
Be that what it may, she has been duly warned and in her new Age arrogance crafted some new accusation against me which you obviously have begun to embellish. So much for her loving friendship, it is a shame to see two people feed off each other in such folie a deux.
Make up some better stories for your audience, Nima Hazini! You really should give up the prophet business and like Daniel Easterman write conspiracy novels, you would make more money that way!
I wonder what Sohiel is going to ever do with you? I am certainly glad I am NOT your parents.
Try and put yourself in a  a judge's position:
"Your Honor, my son claims he is Christ"
Hmmm.
Again, for the record, I was minding my own business when in October you and Star began writing me out of the blue under some feigned friendship after a lengthy period of silence, only to pressure me into joining your cult - when I had no desire to ever acknowledge any self-claimed divine mission of yours. It would seem it was YOU who initiated this contact, not me... and in October, well in advance of your claimed theophany of November. Well excuse me if I resent this intrusion into my spiritual life, and am particularly unimpressed  with your vainglorious and utterly hollow proclamations as the "divine" numerology of your name. Pardon me if I find the tone and content of your "Tablets" so amateurish and silly as to be ridiculous.
No wonder Cal thinks that you are joking, you can't honestly tell me that you believe that nonsense that you are writing!
Either way, I have no further interest in investigating or condemning your various claims, Star* has made her decision she alone is responsible as your destinies play themselves out - god and goddess indeed!
I pray to Jesus Christ that he deliver you from Evil, the diabolic succubus which has taken possession of your soul so that you can seek the psychiatric attention that you are in obvious need of. I pray that you and your family will come to Jesus for your salvation. Amen.
1 Corinthians 10:21 -
You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons.
Now I would like to part ways with you Nima, if that is at all possible, and with Star- you yourselves have burned all of your bridges and it is best I let this one fall as well.
I will remember you in my prayers.
Corax
--
> From: nima...@onthenet.com.au (Saoshyant6)
> Organization: http://groups.google.com/
> Newsgroups: talk.religion.bahai,soc.culture.iranian
> Date: 31 Dec 2002 18:34:03 -0800
> Subject: baha'i Cult Agents on the Payroll
>
> She
>
> In the name of God the Glorified, the Holy!
>
Pat Kohli
Saoshyant6 wrote:
> She
>
> In the name of God the Glorified, the Holy!
>
> It would seem that hard financial times have hit Mr Duran and so in
(snip)
About two weeks ago you were posting similar crackles of flatulence. At
the time, I advised you to get the goods, then post. That is, get the
goods, then post.
Here, once again, you have an itch, and you scratch. Harry has a well
known record criticizing the Guardian, the AO, and various aspects of the
Baha'i Faith. Recently he has returned with no indication whatsoever that
his views on the BF has changed one smidgin. Nobody but you and your cult
followers would believe that Harry would take money to defend the BF, and,
nobody but you and your cult followers would believe that the AO would
offer someone like him any money to defend the BF.
Harry is clearly here for you. You invited him, and you keep him through
cheap stunts like the one above.
Your continued shenanigans only further diminish the credibility of
yourself and all you have said over the past 8 years.
Grow up, and get your own newsgroup!
- Pat
kohli at ameritel.net
Corax
faith have diminished as it appears that whatever misunderstandings of my
past experience with this religion have their origins in poor instruction
and misrepresentation (Star* are you reading this?).
It would seem that religious liberalism has reached its ugly outcome in the
endless tirades of the self-indignant academics and feminist extremists,
their sympathizers who desire above all that the BF be nothing more than a
deist expression of the secular, humanistic and morally and ethically
bankrupt values of modern Anglo-American culture. This is not the fault of
the Bahai Faith which has in its writings and policies clear and
uncompromising statements about women in the UHJ, free speech and democratic
idealism. People who did not adequately study these materials have no one
else to blame but themselves for their own lack of due diligence in signing
their declaration cards. the mystical writings which so many became enamored
of through Bahaullah are not unique and similar mystical beauty can be found
in the writings of Thomas a Kempis, Rumi and nagarjuna - mysticism in itself
is not a sufficient quality to proclaim a new faith or to create an new
religion, nor is mysticism a necessary reason to proclaim adherence in a new
faith. This of course since all faiths have a mystical content.
Nevertheless, I do not agree with the fundamental principles of the Bahai
faith; that is to say its concept of progressive revelation and covenants,
and their rejection of the salvific act of Christ's death on the cross and
resurrection, so I cannot say that I am a Bahai, and this is the reason that
I did leave the faith in 1977.
However, a sense of admiration for the mysticism of Bahaullah did lead me to
explore sufism and aspects of the Bahai writings which speak to Irfan and
union with God, nevertheless, even in its most loose sense the soteriologic
principle of Christ's sacrifice is missing. That is fine with me, those who
choose to be Bahais or sufis have of course their freedom of conscience to
do so.
Nevertheless, having been dragged into this mess yet again by the
unsolicited ,unwelcome, and importunous contact of certain individuals, I
must now state as I have previously that those who have been complaining
about "censorship" need to review the tenets of the Faith and accept them in
toto or reject them; but this endless whining about women on the UHJ which
has been expressly forbidden and prepublication review has only succeeded in
being divisive and an occasion of sin for most.
The Talisman Crack-Up is the defining event of this nonsense and it would
seem to me that the more effective solution would be for the UHJ to declare
the principals involved "Covenant Breakers", which IMO would put an end to
this nonsense. Instead people claiming to be "believers" in Bahaullah yet
"disenrolled" have by and large been a source of mischief and disorder and
have provided the imeptus for those misguided cultists to proclaim their own
vanity a revelation of God, have created an idol of feminism through which
they blaspheme the Virgin Mary and the Holy Spirit, and deify their own
lusts.
Not satisfied with the blasphemies against their own faith, in their
idolatrous goddess based ecumenism these individuals have also blasphemed
Jesus Christ, and Muhammad. While Christians are used to having their
religion made mock by non-believers, the effects of this new age based
blasphemy against Islam by the parties peripherally associated with the
Bahai Faith has the very real potential to incite religious persecutions of
Bahais in Islamic countries by people who do not understand that the "new
bayanni" revelation is not part of the Bahi Faith - these posts are being
put forward on soc.culture.iranian after all.
For this reason I would speculate that it would behoove the Bahai AO to do
some CB declarations and cleanse some house to put a stop to this ongoing
mockery of other faiths which is being done on this list by the new
bayannies and the "disenrolled" Bahais.
It is time to for those that are in charge to put a stop to these
shennanigans and to get their house in order.
Corax
--
Å‚Do not try and bend the spoon. ThatÄ…s impossible. Instead . . . only try
to realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then youÄ…ll see that it is not the
spoon that bends, it is only yourself.Ë›
Susan Maneck
>faith; that is to say its concept of progressive revelation and covenants,
>and their rejection of the salvific act of Christ's death on the cross and
>resurrection,
Dear Harry,
Could you explain to me a little more about the latter? I understood you to be
a Christian gnostic. I was always under the impression that gnostics denied the
physical reality of both the crucifixtion and the ressurection.
> this is the reason that
>I did leave the faith in 1977.
I thought your conversion back to Christianity was somewhat later. Didn't you
go through a Muslim and Babi stage in between?
>even in its most loose sense the soteriologic
>principle of Christ's sacrifice is missing.
Is that really true, Harry? I would think that the only soteriological
principle of Christ's sacrifice that we would deny would be an Anselmian
conception of it.
warmest,
Susan Maneck
Associate Professor of History
Jackson State University
Corax
> From: sma...@aol.com (Susan Maneck )
> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
> Newsgroups: talk.religion.bahai
> Date: 01 Jan 2003 18:00:57 GMT
> Subject: Re: Talisman Crack-Up Re: baha'i Cult Agents
>
>
> Dear Harry,
>
> Could you explain to me a little more about the latter? I understood you to be
> a Christian gnostic. I was always under the impression that gnostics denied
> the
> physical reality of both the crucifixtion and the ressurection.
There are different schools of Christian gnosticism. I tend to be more
Valentinian, which accepts that Christ was crucified for the redemption of
humanity.
The actual physis - or nature - and ousia - or substance - of Christ, the
cross and the Blood are matters of a 2000 years old debate in Christendom.
The aspect that you address is that of docetism - one which is also stated
in the Quran "and they did not kill him but it only appeared that they did".
this is not the only gnostic view with regard to teh Crucifixion and
Resurrection. Nevertheless, the soteriologic act of he redemptive sacrifice
is a central tenet of Christendom, Catholic, Orthodox and Gnostic, and one
which has precedence over the covenant of the oT>
Corax
Corax
Corax
> From: sma...@aol.com (Susan Maneck )
> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
> Newsgroups: talk.religion.bahai
> Date: 01 Jan 2003 18:00:57 GMT
>
>
>> even in its most loose sense the soteriologic
>> principle of Christ's sacrifice is missing.
>
> Is that really true, Harry? I would think that the only soteriological
> principle of Christ's sacrifice that we would deny would be an Anselmian
> conception of it.
>
> warmest,
I will leave it for you Susan or another knowledgeable bahai (list; please
note someone grounded in solid Bahai teachings) to explain to me how the
Bahai faith accepts the soteriologic agency of Christ's crucifixion, death,
resurrection and ascension.
The sine qua non of the soteriology of Jesus Christ is the death and
resurrection; whether as a literal physical event or one of docetic yet
transcendent power. Nevertheless it is my understanding that Bahais view the
mission of Jesus as one of Book revelation , legislation and establishment
of institutions. Would I be correct in my understanding of this?
Corax
Pat Kohli
Corax wrote:
> (snip)
>
> I will leave it for you Susan or another knowledgeable bahai (list; please
> note someone grounded in solid Bahai teachings) to explain to me how the
> Bahai faith accepts the soteriologic agency of Christ's crucifixion, death,
> resurrection and ascension.
>
My suspicion is that w/in the BF, the emphasis is on practice over dogma. A
precise understanding of various theological mysteries is more highly valued
w/in some Christian organization. I do not mean to suggest that ignorance is
valued in the BF, but that ignorance of some details is readily tolerated.
>
> The sine qua non of the soteriology of Jesus Christ is the death and
> resurrection; whether as a literal physical event or one of docetic yet
> transcendent power. Nevertheless it is my understanding that Bahais view the
> mission of Jesus as one of Book revelation , legislation and establishment
> of institutions. Would I be correct in my understanding of this?
I think you are quite correct in your understanding of the BF.
My understanding of the salvific efficacy of the blood of Christ is that it was
theologically asserted immediately in the development of the New Testament
(asuming that the letters of Paul were written before the Gospels). From my
perspective, Paul's assertion of blood atonement accrues from an intersection of
1) the practices laid out in the Taurat, particularly Leviticus, the 2)
contemporaneous loss of the temple, to include the ability to fulfill the blood
sacrifice requirements of the Law, 3) a desire to secure the allegiance of the
surviving Levites, Sadducees, and any other Jews of the post-Captivity diaspora,
who wished to meet the legal requirements of the Old Testament.
There is some basis w/in the Gospels for the salvific blood. Even before the
Last Supper, Blessed Jesus Christ challenged His audience to drink His blood.
In fact, this was a challenge to break the Law, as the drinking of blood was
outlawed. IMO, the popular blood atonement theology is not what Blessed Jesus
Christ intended to teach, though adherence to it is most likely acceptable in
His sight. That is to say, I think the popular Christian theology is rooted in
the practices which were the immediate precursor to modern Rabbinic Judaism, and
I think it is not completely correct. Had Jesus Christ primarily to shed His
blood for all mankind, He might have been slain in the Infanticide described in
Matthew, and saved most of His disciples the painful deaths that they enjoyed as
martyrs.
The views expressed above are entirely mine, though I happen to be a Baha'i.
Corax
> From: Pat Kohli <kohliCUT...@ameritel.net>
> Organization: I don't think so ...
> Newsgroups: talk.religion.bahai
> Subject: Re: Talisman Crack-Up Re: baha'i Cult Agents
>
> Matthew, and saved most of His disciples the painful deaths that they enjoyed
> as
> martyrs.
>
> The views expressed above are entirely mine, though I happen to be a Baha'i.
>
> - Pat
> kohli at ameritel.net
You make good points. I might add however that death in the massacre of the
Holy Innocents by Herod may not have been expiatory in that the Infant Jesus
would not have been of the age of maturity and thus not considered of the
capacity for submitting to the sacrifice as a competent adult, recall the
consent recorded in the agony at Gethsemane.
But your other points clearly demonstrate where standard Christian and Bahai
spirituality diverge.
Thanks for your response.
Corax
Susan Maneck
>is a central tenet of Christendom, Catholic, Orthodox and Gnostic, and one
>which has precedence over the covenant of the oT>
Dear Harry,
That's true. But Jesus also affirmed He was establishing a New Covenant so
covenants themselves don't disappeared.
What I am interested in understanding is in what sense do you think the Baha'i
Faith rejects the soteriological significance and redemptive aspect of Jesus'
sacrifice? I can think of only two aspects of the redemptive nature of Jesus
sacrifice that we as Baha'is would reject. The first would be the Anselmian
notion that God Himself was unable to forgive sins any other way. That strikes
me as a product of the very Jehovah-like notion of God which I understood you
to reject as well. The second aspect would be the notion that this kind of
redeemptive sacrifice is something which God has done only once and never
again. I think the Baha'i take on this is that it is something God through His
Manifestation again and again.
But since I don't know what this redemption from sin specifically means for
you, I'm not sure how to evaluate your statements. So tell me more and explain
this to me:
>I tend to be more
>Valentinian, which accepts that Christ was crucified for the redemption of
>humanity.
Did Jesus then have a physical body to begin with? Don't gnostics believe that
physicality is evil in and of itself?
warmest, Susan
Susan Maneck
>The sine qua non of the soteriology of Jesus Christ is the death and
>resurrection; whether as a literal physical event or one of docetic yet
>transcendent power.
Dear Harry,
I would think we accept the soteriology of Jesus death and resurrection, the
first physically, the second spiritually. But this is what Baha'u'llah Himself
had to say:
"That which thou hast heard concerning Abraham, the Friend of the All-Merciful,
is the truth, and no doubt is there about it. The Voice of God commanded Him to
offer up Ishmael as a sacrifice, so that His steadfastness in the Faith of God
and His detachment from all else but Him may be demonstrated unto men. The
purpose of God, moreover, was to sacrifice him as a ransom for the sins and
iniquities of all the peoples of the earth. This same honor, Jesus, the Son of
Mary, besought the one true God, exalted be His name and glory, to confer upon
Him. For the same reason was Husayn offered up as a sacrifice by Muhammad, the
Apostle of God.
No man can ever claim to have comprehended the nature of the hidden and
manifold grace of God; none can fathom His all-embracing mercy. Such hath been
the perversity of men and their transgressions, so grievous have been the
trials that have afflicted the Prophets of God and their chosen ones, that all
mankind deserveth to be tormented and to perish. God's hidden and most loving
providence, however, hath, through both visible and invisible agencies,
protected and will continue to protect it from the penalty of its wickedness.
Ponder this in thine heart, that the truth may be revealed unto thee, and be
thou steadfast in His path." Gleanings, 76-76.
>Nevertheless it is my understanding that Bahais view the
>mission of Jesus as one of Book revelation , legislation and establishment
>of institutions. Would I be correct in my understanding of this?
Geeze, no wonder you left the Faith! Harry, I knew the Gospels inside and out
at the time I became a Baha'i, notwithstanding my youth. Since then, I spent
three years doing graduate work on church history with one of the greatest
church historians in the world. Besides reading much of the writings of the
Protestant reformers in depth, I also read St. Augustine's City of God (the
whole thing.)
After all this, do you really think I would remain a Baha'i if I thought the
heart of my own religion (let alone Christianity) was texts, laws and
institutions?
warmest,
Susan Maneck
>My suspicion is that w/in the BF, the emphasis is on practice over dogma.
Dear Pat,
This isn't because belief isn't important. It is because Baha'is, like Muslims
are very reticent to pry into and judge people's inmost hearts.
george.fleming2
in article 20030101173246...@mb-fc.aol.com, Susan Maneck at
sma...@aol.com wrote on 1/1/03 10:32 pm:
>> Nevertheless, the soteriologic act of he redemptive sacrifice
>> is a central tenet of Christendom, Catholic, Orthodox and Gnostic, and one
>> which has precedence over the covenant of the oT>
>
> Dear Harry,
>
> That's true. But Jesus also affirmed He was establishing a New Covenant so
> covenants themselves don't disappeared.
Sure they dont, here take your pick....................Gf
http://synd-uk.looksmart.co.uk/synd-yal/SearchResults.jsp?key=covenants&lan=
us
george.fleming2
george....@ntlworld.com wrote on 1/1/03 10:45 pm:
How come the Baha'i Covenant's are not recorded here?.........GF
>
Susan Maneck
>But your other points clearly demonstrate where standard Christian and Bahai
>spirituality diverge.
Dear Harry,
I respectfully disagree. I think what they demonstrate is where Harry and Pat's
spirituality diverge. You still have to persuade me where yours and mine do.
And the only point so far where I see they do is that I affirm the ultimate
goodness of creation along with most orthodox Christians. I am, through and
through, a theist. I can't see how Jesus' sacrifice could possibly have any
meaning for me if I were not.
warmest, Susan
Corax
Thank you for bringing out these parts of the Bahai writings, very
informative. So it would seem that the conception that the Bahai world view
is centered only on new laws and commandments is erroneus.
However, how does this concept of expiatory sacrifice establish itself in
bahai practice, being a religious historian you of course know that it is in
the Mass that Catholics (and many Christian Gnostics) find the meaning of
Christ's mission ("ite missa est") renewed on a continual basis.
Corax
> From: sma...@aol.com (Susan Maneck )
> Subject: Re: Talisman Crack-Up Re: baha'i Cult Agents
>
>>
Corax
Hebrews 9:15 -
For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death
has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed
under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise
of the eternal inheritance.
From Corax
This means to me that this expiation of the debt has occurred once and for
all.
Saoshyant6
In the Name of God, the Glorified, the Holy!
Of course it is a well known fact to people in the know that Kholi is
a paid and hired agent of the baha'i cult administration, sent on the
internet to police baha'i boards and battle those of its opponents. It
is an even better known fact that Dr Maniac (the Antichrist of My
Revelation) is paid by this cult as well, as confessed by Mark Foster
who admitted the monies that he was being paid by the baha'i cult
administration. These glaze eyed cultists speak with forked tongues
and have the gall to talk about a credibility which they themselves do
even not possess nor would they know what credibility was, since they
have sold their souls collectively to the accursed Satan of
materialism and Big LIE. Thus, their whole aim when uncomfortable
facts are brought to them is to smear and call into question the
integrities of those who dare question the flimsy foundations of their
dangerous, malicious cult, rather than the issues. For the things it
has done and is doing, any fair minded, objective person can assess
who lacks credibility here, and it is the Haifan baha'i cultists and
those who follow this pernicious and malicious creed whose agenda is
nothing short of the imposition of a totalitarian New World Order (I
ask people to read their "Revelations" and find out the aims of the
Antichrist as spelled out in that Book).
This is an organization with solid ties to the Israeli Mossad and the
Zionist government and other similar nefarious anti-humanitarian
fascist organizations. It is an organization whose senior
administrative members where once senior economic advisors to the
junta of Generalissimo Augusto Pinochet (one of the worst human rights
violaters of the 20th century). This is an organization whose Ugandan
"Hand of the Cause," Olinga, was a crony of Idi Amin's and it was for
this reason whereby he was "mysteriously" murdered after the fall of
Amin. This is an organization who today unashamedly rubbs shoulders
with the racist Pauline Hanson and Reza Pahlavi in broad daylight,
gambling on an American CIA and military installation of Pahlavi a la
1953. This is an organization which murdered Dan Jordan and Hedi
Ma'ani, and possibly others. This is an organization whose sole aim is
the disruption of the lives, livelihoods and the break-up of familes
for its own insidious ends, ad nauseum. In short, this organization is
a cult and among the most vicious of cults out there.
Recently they have even gone so far as to enlist the support of a
particularly mentally deranged individual whom I have known in person:
a person who has been diagnosed with clinical manic depression,
paranoid schizophrenia and post traumatic stress disorder and imbibes
a mountain of medication daily. It appears that this is an
organization which is so desperate at the moment because they know
their days are numbered and that myself and many others will stop at
nothing to expose them to the world at large for the malicious and
dangerous political cult that they are. Otherwise why would they care
to respond to every single thing I post? It would beg the question
indeed. Seemingly they have been hurt and hurt badly and like a
wounded animal cornered they are lashing out in all directions.
However, they are foolish.
They have miscalculated many times before where I am concerned and
they will continue to miscalculate, foolishly believing that their
tactics have any effect upon me whatsoever. As I have said before, the
only way I will be stopped is for the baha'i cultists to do to me what
they did to Dan Jordan, Hedi Ma'ani, Siyyid Muhammad Isfahani and all
those Bayanis whom they murdered in Baghdad and Edirne. I possess a
divine mandate from the All High Herself and hence have initiated a
new movement and nothing either in heaven or earth can stop it. The
more they continue with their persecutions the more the Bayaniyyah
will grow.
Verily we are from God and to Her we shall return completed and verily
I am the Proof of God and Her Light!
Nima Saoshyant
(Wahdat Ali Sayf'ullah Quddusiyyah)
Corax <cor...@elp.rr.com> wrote in message news:<BA37B3FE.14BE4%cor...@elp.rr.com>...
> --
Susan Maneck
>bahai practice, being a religious historian you of course know that it is in
>the Mass that Catholics (and many Christian Gnostics) find the meaning of
>Christ's mission ("ite missa est") renewed on a continual basis.
Dear Harry,
To say the Baha'i Faith accepts the notion of redeempitve sacrifice would not
mean that it is as central for us as it is for Christianity. But certainly
wouldn't make rules and regulations central either, or even (dare I say it?),
a set of principles.. For myself Baha'i spirituality is centered in three
elements, the first consists of the way we respond to that covenental question
"Am I not your Lord?"
The covenental question is not so much a contract containing specific clauses,
it is the act of decentering the self and making God the soveriegn center. It
is the exact opposite of the kind of 'spirituality' which Nima and Star are
promoting here.
The second element of my spirituality would consist of the 'remembrance' of
the sufferings of the Manifestations. Hence Baha'u'llah says, "Remember My days
during thy days and my distress and banishment in this remote prison." The
sufferings of the Manifestation are 'redemptive' in the sense that through them
we come to understand the depth of God's love, that through the Manifestation
He is present and suffering with and for us. This makes our own sufferings
meaningful and our sacrifices, and therefore spiritual transformation
possible. There is a passage found in Gleanings p. 242 wherein Baha'u'llah
speaks of His own sufferings in these terms:
"Behold, O Dhabih, the works which God, the Sovereign Truth, hath wrought. Say
thou: How great, how very great, is the power of His might that encompasseth
all worlds! Exalted, immeasurably exalted, is His detachment above the reach
and ken of the entire creation! Glorified, glorified be his meekness--a
meekness that hath melted the hearts of them that have been brought nigh unto
God!"
The phrases "How great, how very Exalted, immeasurably exalted" "Glorified,
glorified" are various translations of a single term in the Persian *t'ali,
t'ali* which might be more literally translated as lofty or exalted. Since
English style does not value such redundancy as Persian and Arabic does, Shoghi
Effendi seems to have preferred to vary the translation in each sentence. But
the theme of exaltation, of loftiness, of soaring to heights is what permeates
the entirety of this Tablet.
What is most striking about this passage, however, is the way in which it ties
together contradictories. What is exalted about the works amal of the True One
Haq is His detachment and meekness. And it is that power "which encompasseth
all the worlds." The term translated as meekness here is mazulmatiya which
denotes not simply humility but being wronged, of being innocent. The root word
here, zulm denotes oppression, it is the opposite of 'adl or justice.
Baha'u'llah makes the astounding assertion then that the Exaltation of God
Himself lies in His having subjected Himself through the Manifestation to
abasement, oppression and suffering. It is within this context that Baha'u'llah
goes on to say: "Reflect a while, and consider how they who are the loved ones
of God must conduct themselves, and to what heights they must soar." It is
through the Manifestation that God Himself participates in the suffering of the
oppressed and expects us to emulate Him in that participation.Baha'u'llah goes
even further in that Tablet and suggests that had they instead followed His own
example, most of the world would now be Baha'i.
This brings us I think, to the third element, one which probably distinguishes
us from Christianity as it has deveoped and I think probably even more so from
gnosticism. We are not so much interested in seeing this sacrfice or this
remembrance acted out simply in rituals like the Mass (however meaningful that
might be in itself) we want to see it acted out in our lives in the world. You
see Baha'is aren't simply out to transform individual souls, leaving to the
devil all others, we are out to transform the world itself through action in
the world. And we are persuaded that the same God who through His Manifestation
suffers all the wrongs of the world; is ultimately the ruler of this world and
not Satan. There is evil in the world, yes, just as there is evil within our
own selves. But we and the world are still God's and no one elses. Even the New
Testament affirms "for God so loved the world" and "Thy kingdom come, Thy will
be done on *earth*" but it seems Christians mostly forget this.
If we accept the principle that our responsiveness to the Covenant, that our
remembrance of God and His Manifestation, that our spiritual transformation
itself must find expression in the real world if they are to be of any effect,
then it becomes evident as to why things like Lesser Covenants, Laws and
Institutions are necessary, for they, not rituals, become the vehicles by which
these things are enacted in our world in concrete ways. It's important to
remember, however, that they are only the vehicles, and not the thing itself.
As the Guardian says:
"The friends must never mistake the Baha'i administration for an end in itself.
It is merely the instrument of the spirit of the Faith. This Cause is a Cause
which God has revealed to humanity as a whole. It is designed to benefit the
entire human race, and the only way it can do this is to reform the community
life of mankind, as well as seeking to regenerate the individual. The Baha'i
administration is only the first shaping of what in future will come to be the
social life and laws of community living."
and
""Let us also bear in mind that the keynote to the Cause of God is not
dictatorial authority, but humble fellowship, not arbitrary power, but the
spirit of frank and loving consultation. Nothing short of the spirit of a true
Baha'i can hope to reconcile the principles of mercy and justice, of freedom
and submission, of the sanctity of the right of the individual and of
self-surrender, of vigilance, discretion and prudence on the one hand and
fellowship, candour and courage on the other."
Your turn, Harry.
with love, Susan
Saoshyant6
The small house of ignorance (bayt'ul-jahl asghar) will soon fall into
dust and you and your type along with it, since by the mandate given
to Me by Her I have hereby declared the uhj and their followers to be
the supreme violaters of the Divine Covenant of 'Alast'.
As for you, by your own malice, forked tongue, duplicity and spite may
you burn in the hell of your own insanity, ignorance and envy and
thereby wallow in the pitiful darkness of the corrupted existence you
have created for yourself forevermore. You have damned yourself by
your own words and now reap what you have sown, O mangy dog of
Tartarus.
Corax <cor...@elp.rr.com> wrote in message news:<BA387D87.14C3E%cor...@elp.rr.com>...
Pat Kohli
Corax wrote:
> > From: Pat Kohli <kohliCUT...@ameritel.net>
> > Organization: I don't think so ...
> > Newsgroups: talk.religion.bahai
> > Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 17:00:18 -0500
> > Subject: Re: Talisman Crack-Up Re: baha'i Cult Agents
> >
> > He might have been slain in the Infanticide described in
> > Matthew, and saved most of His disciples the painful deaths that they enjoyed
> > as
> > martyrs.
> >
> > The views expressed above are entirely mine, though I happen to be a Baha'i.
> >
> > - Pat
> > kohli at ameritel.net
>
> You make good points. I might add however that death in the massacre of the
> Holy Innocents by Herod may not have been expiatory in that the Infant Jesus
> would not have been of the age of maturity and thus not considered of the
> capacity for submitting to the sacrifice as a competent adult, recall the
> consent recorded in the agony at Gethsemane.
I would not presume that consent needed to be required from the Minor, in that the
Parent consents in behalf of the Child, as Ibraheem did with His Sons.
Blessings!
Susan Maneck
>This means to me that this expiation of the debt has occurred once and for
>all.
Dear Harry,
A debt to whom? I thought that gnostics didn't believe in the Jehovah of the
Old Testament.
warmest,
Pat Kohli
Susan Maneck wrote:
> >
> >But your other points clearly demonstrate where standard Christian and Bahai
> >spirituality diverge.
>
> Dear Harry,
>
> I respectfully disagree. I think what they demonstrate is where Harry and Pat's
> spirituality diverge.
That is true somewhat. You have a better appreciate of the Gospel than I presumed
most Baha'is do, and that is good for you. I thought Harry was discussing what he
saw as Baha'i understanding/misunderstanding, and I certainly thought I was talking
about what I suspect is Christian understanding/misunderstanding. I think it is
great that we can share deeply significant feelings about such topics, w/o fear of
ridicule. But each of our assesments on where others may have gone wrong, is, I
hope, not really the full indictment on our own spirituality.
> You still have to persuade me where yours and mine do.
> And the only point so far where I see they do is that I affirm the ultimate
> goodness of creation along with most orthodox Christians. I am, through and
> through, a theist. I can't see how Jesus' sacrifice could possibly have any
> meaning for me if I were not.
To paraphrase Kevin Spacey's character in that K-Pax movie, I think the trip alone
was the sacrifice. I am glad the Manifestions of God have come and dwelt among us.
Best wishes!
Corax
> From: Pat Kohli <kohliCUT...@ameritel.net>
> Organization: I don't think so ...
> Newsgroups: talk.religion.bahai
> Subject: Re: Talisman Crack-Up Re: baha'i Cult Agents
>
> hope, not really the full indictment on our own spirituality.
At this juncture in our discussion, I am not addressing what I consider the
rightness or wrongness of our differing faiths but rather how the world
views of our respective faiths differ; as such I am not attempting to engage
you in a polemical discussion, but rather to shift the discussion of
Christianity to a more edifying content.
Corax
Pat Kohli
Saoshyant6 wrote:
> She
>
> The small house of ignorance (bayt'ul-jahl asghar) will soon fall into
> dust and you and your type along with it, since by the mandate given
> to Me by Her I have hereby declared the uhj and their followers to be
> the supreme violaters of the Divine Covenant of 'Alast'.
>
> As for you, by your own malice, forked tongue, duplicity and spite may
> you burn in the hell of your own insanity, ignorance and envy and
> thereby wallow in the pitiful darkness of the corrupted existence you
> have created for yourself forevermore. You have damned yourself by
> your own words and now reap what you have sown, O mangy dog of
> Tartarus.
I'm sure I speak for all in wishing you well this New Year, too, as you wish others.
Blessings!
Pat Kohli
Saoshyant6 wrote:
> She is God
>
> In the Name of God, the Glorified, the Holy!
>
> Of course it is a well known fact to people in the know that Kholi is
> a paid and hired agent of the baha'i cult administration, sent on the
> internet to police baha'i boards and battle those of its opponents.
I tend to be a bit more skeptical of remarks prefaced by "obviously", and this one is not
prefaced in such a manner; if something were obvious, there would be no need to point it
out.
When something is a well known fact, it need not be pointed out, obviously. When a
notion is introduced as a well known fact, it is more likely an opinion held mainly by
the person who is making the assertion. In this case, it is likely sad sympton of
frustration at having been shown to be wrong on so many occasions, quite understandable
for someone in Nima's position. Nima has previously made such outrageous accusations,
and been answered. He has no evidence, so he repeats his allegations, like a parrot.
Sadly, Nima has already put me on his enemies list, declared me dead, a person not to be
made mention of. Is the mispelling of my name a loop hole, for him to sneak through his
own rules?
> It
> is an even better known fact that Dr Maniac (the Antichrist of My
> Revelation) is paid by this cult as well, as confessed by Mark Foster
> who admitted the monies that he was being paid by the baha'i cult
> administration.
It is an ad hom allegation which sours with its repetition.
> These glaze eyed cultists speak with forked tongues
> and have the gall to talk about a credibility which they themselves do
You make these allegations because you have been shown pathetically wrong so many times,
from your parrotting of the pusallanimity post, through your Chieftain tanks, you can't
seem to get a story straight. Even after claiming to be a prophet, you can't tell an
emerald (green) from a ruby (red).
>
> even not possess nor would they know what credibility was, since they
> have sold their souls collectively to the accursed Satan of
> materialism and Big LIE. Thus, their whole aim when uncomfortable
That is what you say. It isn't your BIG LIE, it is just another one of your MANY LIES,
though.
>
> facts are brought to them is to smear and call into question the
Bring me an uncomfortable fact. Two weeks ago when you started this accusation I told
you to get the goods before posting. Earlier today I repeated it. You have no factual
basis to allege that the AO so much as gave me gas money to drop an NSA member off at the
airport. You have no factual basis for your allegation that the AO has hired me to be on
the internet.
>
> integrities of those who dare question the flimsy foundations of their
> dangerous, malicious cult, rather than the issues. For the things it
What issues? An ABM on TV? Turns out to be "not so". A directive from the US NSA
forbidding the Baha'is from reciting certain prayers in public? Again, "NOT SO". I'm
happy to discuss real issues; I am tired of getting my feet muddied by 'working' your
disappointing fabrications.
> (snip down to something particularly humorous for Robert Arvey)
> This is an organization with solid ties to the Israeli Mossad and the
> Zionist government and other similar nefarious anti-humanitarian
See, Robert, I am in with the zionist government. Nima says so. Maybe I am a holdover
from the Labor party, pushing my co-existence agenda.
The real links to other organizations are things like the UN, not the Mossad.
(Snipped further rantings)
Nima, see a doctor. Ask him why you can't stand most of your old friends any more, since
you told us you were a Manifestation of God. He will believe you are telling what you
know to be true.
Best wishes!
Susan Maneck
>basis to allege that the AO so much as gave me gas money to drop an NSA
>member off at the
>airport.
Enough obfuscation, Pat. You, Mark and Harry are all holding out on me. I want
my cut!
Seriously, I've done better than you. Three or four years ago the BNC bought
me a plane ticket to come up for a weekend and consult with the NTC, along
with Michael Sours, Gary Matthews and a few others.
But I can't seem to get a dime out of them for this internet stuff!
Saoshyant6
I wish you nothing else but that you taste the rotten and bitter fruit
of your own karma very soon. And you do not speak for anyone here
other than the pitful disgusting smelly gnat and manifestation of
lies, deceit and obfuscation which inhabits your sorry, dark, putrid
existence.
And fyi the true New Year starts on March 21st, or have your evil
satanic masters upon the small house of ignorance (baytu'l-jahl
asghar) rescinded that as well just as they began taking off pictures
of Abbas Effendi from your centres after 9-11?
Pat Kohli <kohliCUT...@ameritel.net> wrote in message news:<3E13ABFC...@ameritel.net>...
Saoshyant6
> sAle no mobArak
Ay masdar-e nang o nangineh-ye koll, saal-e naw Naw Ruz ast!
You are paid to be skeptical and obfuscate, as you are a hired agent
of the baha'i cult. Otherwise what do you care what I say that you
have to reply to every post? Obviously there is a "directive" from the
small house of ignorance deputizing Dr Maniac, yourself and others
here to do so, which demonstrably has a financial dividend to it.
Perhaps a full IRS audit of both you and Dr Maniac's accounts (and a
complete and full IRS audit of the accounts of the baha'i cult ao in
the US and an Israeli Tax office audit of the WC in Haifa to be
publically made known) would settle matters. Perhaps someone should
drop a line to the Internal Revenue Service and the Israeli Tax office
to get the ball rolling since God knows where all the monies are going
and how they are being embezzled by the baha'i cultists besides being
thrown in the pockets of Kholi (meaning "crazy one" in Persian) and
the Antichrist Maniac.
WASQ
Cal E. Rollins
Adminstration? Did he say Susan and Pat were, too? Where is Mark, by
the way? He seemed like a nice person to me, especially when he backed
down from supporting Susan's most vociferous moments. --Cal
Cal E. Rollins
paying folk to silence other folk on TRB. He has said that Mark Foster
said that he and others were paid. Can Mark verify this? Where in heck
is he? Is he out of the hospital? Can anybody contact him to verify
this story? Does anybody have his e-mail address? I lost my copy. To
me, that's some interesting, significant news--true or false. --Cal
Susan Maneck
>said that he and others were paid.
Dear Cal,
Mark never said anything of the sort, unless it was in jest. He's not in the
hospital right now but it has been some time since he was active in cyberspace.
He hasn't been answering emails. I just left a message on his answering
machine apprising him of the situation but he has gone months without
acknowledging those lately as well.
Cal E. Rollins
Baha'i centers after 9/ll? I put my many photographs of Him away when I
have parties, but feel it judicious based on the motley crew of
Americans who come to my parties and the emotions people exhibit towards
anyone in turbans and beards looking like Osama. Even the Sikhs in
California airports and my apartment complex are having the blues in
that regard. --Cal
Randy Burns
Randy
--
Cal E. Rollins <crol...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:14294-3E1...@storefull-2337.public.lawson.webtv.net...
marabeboos
not cross post to Iranian NG. Even some of your own Bahai members,
like Ariamehr, agree with me. This is an Iranian NG and we ARE NOT
interested in these kinds of talks.
Iranian people here in SCI, like, Shumbool, Marabeboos, Ariamehr,
Peace 200x, Peacock, Sirknight, Mehrnoosh, Kiyanoush, and many more
feel exactly alike.
Thanks.
Pat Kohli <kohliCUT...@ameritel.net> wrote in message news:<3E13175E...@ameritel.net>...
> Saoshyant6 wrote:
>
> > She
> >
> > In the name of God the Glorified, the Holy!
> >
> > It would seem that hard financial times have hit Mr Duran and so in
>
> (snip)
>
> About two weeks ago you were posting similar crackles of flatulence. At
> the time, I advised you to get the goods, then post. That is, get the
> goods, then post.
>
> http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl2245488431d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=3E02AA27.6F5069F0%40ameritel.net
>
> Here, once again, you have an itch, and you scratch. Harry has a well
> known record criticizing the Guardian, the AO, and various aspects of the
> Baha'i Faith. Recently he has returned with no indication whatsoever that
> his views on the BF has changed one smidgin. Nobody but you and your cult
> followers would believe that Harry would take money to defend the BF, and,
> nobody but you and your cult followers would believe that the AO would
> offer someone like him any money to defend the BF.
>
> Harry is clearly here for you. You invited him, and you keep him through
> cheap stunts like the one above.
>
> Your continued shenanigans only further diminish the credibility of
> yourself and all you have said over the past 8 years.
>
> Grow up, and get your own newsgroup!
Ariamehr
engage in a dialogue and conversation by replying to the posts , I don't
consider them spams and even though I may not agree with them but who am I
to stop them . By the way if I were a Bahai you think I would let things go
by so easily ???? hehehe I am a sympathizer with anyone who has been a
victim of Islam and in that sense I am a Bahai, I am a Jew, I am a
Christian, I am a Zoroastrian, I am a Hindu , I am a Budhist.So my MOOslim
friend ! I never gang up against anyone with you !!! sorry :-(
Ariamehr
"marabeboos" <marabeb...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6c7b494a.03010...@posting.google.com...
Pat Kohli
Corax wrote:
> (snip) but rather to shift the discussion of
> Christianity to a more edifying content.
Lemons in the subject line, and you are squeezing honey; good for you. I was
very much taken by one of Susan's messages. I never would have guessed she had
it in her. I might even re-assess my capacity to tolerate theological
discussions (previously believed to have been carried off by angels dancing on a
pinhead).
Blessings!
Pat Kohli
Susan Maneck wrote:
> >You have no factual
> >basis to allege that the AO so much as gave me gas money to drop an NSA
> >member off at the
> >airport.
>
> Enough obfuscation, Pat. You, Mark and Harry are all holding out on me. I want
> my cut!
>
> Seriously, I've done better than you. Three or four years ago the BNC bought
> me a plane ticket to come up for a weekend and consult with the NTC, along
> with Michael Sours, Gary Matthews and a few others.
> But I can't seem to get a dime out of them for this internet stuff!
Hahaha! I hate getting cooped up in airplanes, likely off to some traffic jam
beyond a confusing airport, maybe with a blizzard or a heat wave (w/ no central
air conditioning) thrown in for good measure. I am soooo glad you are ahead of me
on that one.
What is up with Mark? I tried emailing him a few weeks ago when Nima first made
this claim, but I don't know if I have a current address.
Michael, if you find Mark Foster, please let me know.
Pat Kohli
Saoshyant6 wrote:
> She
>
> I wish you nothing else but that you taste the rotten and bitter fruit
> of your own karma very soon. And you do not speak for anyone here
> other than the pitful disgusting smelly gnat and manifestation of
> lies, deceit and obfuscation which inhabits your sorry, dark, putrid
> existence.
>
> And fyi the true New Year starts on March 21st, or have your evil
How thoroughly occidentalized you've become! Naw Ruz is on the first day of Spring, regardless of what
Gregorian day it is. Thus, greeting you, with a "Happy New Year" on the day that most of those using
the Gregorian calendar, are celebrating New Years, was quite appropriate.
Now, do yourself a favor, and get a newsgroup where you can abrogate the Bayan, and fix Naw Ruz to the
Gregorian calendar, like a regular old American might do.
Best wishes, and a belated Merry Christmas!
- Pat
Pat Kohli
Saoshyant6 wrote:
> She
>
> > sAle no mobArak
>
> Ay masdar-e nang o nangineh-ye koll, saal-e naw Naw Ruz ast!
>
> You are paid to be skeptical and obfuscate, as you are a hired agent
> of the baha'i cult. Otherwise what do you care what I say that you
> have to reply to every post? Obviously there is a "directive" from the
> small house of ignorance deputizing Dr Maniac, yourself and others
> here to do so, which demonstrably has a financial dividend to it.
> Perhaps a full IRS audit of both you and Dr Maniac's accounts (and a
> complete and full IRS audit of the accounts of the baha'i cult ao in
> the US and an Israeli Tax office audit of the WC in Haifa to be
> publically made known) would settle matters. Perhaps someone should
> drop a line to the Internal Revenue Service and the Israeli Tax office
> to get the ball rolling since God knows where all the monies are going
> and how they are being embezzled by the baha'i cultists besides being
> thrown in the pockets of Kholi (meaning "crazy one" in Persian) and
> the Antichrist Maniac.
>
It is nice to see that at a snail's pace you are figuring out some way to substantiate your
allegations. If only you would realize that you should preserve your credibility and get the
evidence BEFORE you make the accusations, rather than repeating them until you are not just
proven wrong, but proven wrong to your satisfaction.
Best wishes!
- Pat
Pat Kohli
"Cal E. Rollins" wrote:
> Pat, Nima keeps repeating his accusation that the Administration is
> paying folk to silence other folk on TRB.
Yes, and you've repeated your opinion that it is all good fun. I guess you
have not seen some of his other stunts to silence those with the temerity to
disagree with him?
> He has said that Mark Foster
> said that he and others were paid. Can Mark verify this?
I doubt that. Mark can not verify that I was paid anything. My guess is
that Nima has simply misunderstood something which someone else said, again.
> Where in heck
> is he? Is he out of the hospital?
I have a better question - where is Hazini's evidence? Had Dr. Foster
written this on line, Nima would be able to copy the statement and paste it
in as a direct quote. Instead of a direct quote, that Mark Foster wrote
"thus and so" at such and such a site at such and such a day, Hazini has
Foster said that yadah yadah yadah. Maybe Foster did and maybe Foster said
something else.
> Can anybody contact him to verify
> this story? Does anybody have his e-mail address? I lost my copy. To
> me, that's some interesting, significant news--true or false.
I don't think it is news. I think it is more BS. I know that I get no
money to be on line in Baha'i discussions, and I am inclined to think the
rest of his story is almost as accurate as his accusations against me.
When he first posted his accusations against me, I proved him wrong on the
spot.
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl2245488431d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=3E02AA27.6F5069F0%40ameritel.net
Instead of acknowledging his errors, or challenging my proof, he just
repeats his accusations, like MrMahdi, or Darrick Evenson. It is sad, since
Nima used to have some credibility around here.
Dermod Ryder
"Susan Maneck " <sma...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030102103907...@mb-mu.aol.com...
> >He has said that Mark Foster
> >said that he and others were paid.
>
> Dear Cal,
>
> Mark never said anything of the sort, unless it was in jest. He's
not in the
> hospital right now but it has been some time since he was active in
cyberspace.
> He hasn't been answering emails. I just left a message on his
answering
> machine apprising him of the situation but he has gone months
without
> acknowledging those lately as well.
So Mark Faster has acquired some sense at last! What a splendid start
to the year!
Dermod Ryder
in message news:BA37B3FE.14BE4%cor...@elp.rr.com...
>I pray to Jesus Christ that he deliver you from Evil, the diabolic
succubus which has taken >possession of your soul so that you can seek
the psychiatric attention that you are in obvious >need of. I pray
that you and your family will come to Jesus for your salvation. Amen.
YEEEEES! Jesus Saves, but Moses picks up the rebound and SCCCCCORES!
Not to mention, which I don't, that Corax is the perfect bollix who
sends HTML, instead of plain text, which shows you the type of bollix
he really is!
Dermod Ryder
"Saoshyant6" <nima...@onthenet.com.au> wrote in message
news:de9e05b.03010...@posting.google.com...
> You are paid to be skeptical and obfuscate, as you are a hired agent
> of the baha'i cult. Otherwise what do you care what I say that you
> have to reply to every post? Obviously there is a "directive" from
the
> small house of ignorance deputizing Dr Maniac, yourself and others
> here to do so, which demonstrably has a financial dividend to it.
Good Gawd ! Where have I been? In Kansas?
Things are obviously bad in the AO if it has to resort to hiring the
DST. Personally speaking, I wouldn't pay her to clean up anything but
then, I do have some sort of standards of decency and honesty. So
where does this leave the AO if it has hired her? I shudder to think!
Dermod Ryder
> You make good points. I might add however that death in the massacre
of the
> Holy Innocents by Herod may not have been expiatory in that the
Infant Jesus
> would not have been of the age of maturity and thus not considered
of the
> capacity for submitting to the sacrifice as a competent adult,
recall the
> consent recorded in the agony at Gethsemane.
More balderdash! The massacre never happened! Put religion into an
eedjit and he'll believe any fairy tale.
Dermod Ryder
> However, how does this concept of expiatory sacrifice establish
itself in
> bahai practice, being a religious historian you of course know that
it is in
> the Mass that Catholics (and many Christian Gnostics) find the
meaning of
> Christ's mission ("ite missa est") renewed on a continual basis.
"Ite missa est" translates as "Thank God, I can get outside to have a
smoke!"
Corax
Corax
Susan Maneck
Maybe we should rename it. But Harry says he is going out of town. ;-(
> I was
>very much taken by one of Susan's messages
Oh, yeah? Which one was that?
>I might even re-assess my capacity to tolerate theological
>discussions
> (previously believed to have been carried off by angels dancing on a
>pinhead).
>
It is metaphysical discussions that do that to me.
warmest,
Susan Maneck
>made
>this claim, but I don't know if I have a current address.
He's gone into major hypernation and has not been answering his email or his
phone messages.
Dermod Ryder
> Too bad, deal widdit - Dermis.
I do, I do! But you're still a bollix!
Duran Duran and the Orgasmetron of Religious Rectitude and Predestined
Crud. You've got the rectitude and I'm predestined to miss you in the
next world. Your God is magnificent like that. You're pre-booked
with a MasterSalvation Card, the Visa to the delights of paradise
whilst the scum, i.e. those bastards unfortunate enough not to be like
you, including everybody else around about here, are thrown on the
barbecue.
Cal E. Rollins
that people were on the take on TRB. Susan probably would, since she
frequently seems to get hysterical and spills her many beans. However,
most people are very careful about their secrets. I did hear this
on-the-take comment from another source off line and from a person not
having any reason to lie, but, at the time it just seemed too dumb and
didn't think it had any credibility. Hearing it again and observing the
responses, my investigative gate has opened. Promises to be great fun
whatever I find out. To the hounds, what! --Cal
Pat Kohli
Dermod Ryder wrote:
> (snip)
> Good Gawd ! Where have I been? In Kansas?
>
Heaven or a cornfield in Iowa? How could one tell them apart? Good to
see you back, Happy New Year, Merry Christmas, Saturnalia, Festivus,
Sylvester, Tweety, and the like!
>
> Things are obviously bad in the AO if it has to resort to hiring the
> DST. Personally speaking, I wouldn't pay her to clean up anything but
> then, I do have some sort of standards of decency and honesty. So
> where does this leave the AO if it has hired her? I shudder to think!
I think it is a joke that someone has taken seriously, either that or a
delusion at the outset. I think it bodes ill that anyone give this any
credence.
Pat Kohli
Dermod Ryder wrote:
> "Corax" <cor...@elp.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:BA3A4E77.14D43%cor...@elp.rr.com...
> > Too bad, deal widdit - Dermis.
>
> I do, I do! But you're still a bollix!
>
> Duran Duran and the Orgasmetron of Religious Rectitude and Predestined
> Crud. You've got the rectitude and I'm predestined to miss you in the
> next world. Your God is magnificent like that. You're pre-booked
> with a MasterSalvation Card, the Visa to the delights of paradise
> whilst the scum, i.e. those bastards unfortunate enough not to be like
> you, including everybody else around about here, are thrown on the
> barbecue.
>
> >
We've missed you, and all, but, I don't think Harry is one of those
obnxious ones, going on about sinners in the hands of an angry God - I
think he can just do it in a spot. I suspect that he despises them as
much as you do, but has enough sense not to boast about despising them.
I'm not saying you don't have good sense, Dermod, in expressing your
disdain. I'm just going to quit before I get farther behind.
- Pat
Pat Kohli
Susan Maneck wrote:
> >Lemons in the subject line, and you are squeezing honey; good for you.
>
> Maybe we should rename it. But Harry says he is going out of town. ;-(
>
> > I was
> >very much taken by one of Susan's messages
>
> Oh, yeah? Which one was that?
>
The one where you talked about three things, the first where one
acknowledges one's Lord. I've seen a lot of messages in the past few days
though.
>
> >I might even re-assess my capacity to tolerate theological
> >discussions
> > (previously believed to have been carried off by angels dancing on a
> >pinhead).
> >
>
> It is metaphysical discussions that do that to me.
>
> warmest,
- Pat
Pat Kohli
"Cal E. Rollins" wrote:
I read Nima accusing me of this months ago when he seemed angry. Lately, it
seems to get bounced around between George, Michael, and Nima. As I said,
though, even though I proved Nima wrong on the spot, I still get the
accusation, with no evidence. Some people seem to demand _no_ evidence to
swallow some bit of gossip, and spread it about. Just because someone is
saying it, does not make 'it' so.
Blessings!
Starr*
>
> The second element of my spirituality would consist of the 'remembrance' of
> the sufferings of the Manifestations. Hence Baha'u'llah says, "Remember My days
> during thy days and my distress and banishment in this remote prison." The
> sufferings of the Manifestation are 'redemptive' in the sense that through them
> we come to understand the depth of God's love, that through the Manifestation
> He is present and suffering with and for us.
If you are into suffering there are probably quite a few who would
like to give you a helping hand if it really meant there'd be a
transformation - you could ask Lord Nima. Think about it.
>This makes our own sufferings
> meaningful and our sacrifices, and therefore spiritual transformation
> possible.
Michael McKenny
You shared with us:
Pat Kohli (kohliCUT...@ameritel.net) writes:
> Just because someone is saying it, does not make 'it' so.
Precisely. It's not constantly and frequently asserting that the guys
calling themselves UHJ are doing what God wants, that makes it so; what
they're doing can be compared with the spiritual principles of Baha'i and
without anyone saying it, even once, everyone can see it, exactly as
everyone can see the opposite no matter how many posts saying Baha'i
includes the equality of women and men Pat Kohli "refutes".
Now, come on, step forward and say, "Just because someone says Baha'i
includes the equality of women and men doesn't make it so" or, "Sure
Baha'i includes equality of men and women and only men can be on the UHJ."
or some other such "refutation" of the good thing that was said about
Baha'i in the above paragraph.
Your paymasters would do better to buy you good books and invite you to
read them instead of "refuting" the good things posted about Baha'i, but
then if they really understood that, they'd be providing you with
honourable, worthy and spiritual material to defend, though then no
defense would be necessary; the worthiness itself would shine forth in all
its splendour; worthiness doesn't require spin doctoring.
To the clarity of the sun at noon.
Nur Allah
> Blessings!
> - Pat
> kohli at ameritel.net
>
>
--
"My name's McKenny, Mike McKenny, Warrant Officer, Solar Guard."
(Tom Corbett #1 STAND BY FOR MARS p2)
Cal E. Rollins
being on the AO-take, while I don't necessarily believe it, is
comparable to saying Isfandar, a slave in our early Faith, along with
the other slaves who hot-footed out of their when given the opportunity
forf their freedom, was a happy Baha'i slave. We ain't heard the
verification from Isfandar, have we? Nor are we likely to. In regard
to the alleged take, we ain't heard from Mark Foster; nor are we likely
to, are we? So, actually, we'll only know the partial truth when we
hear from Mark's mouth. Right? Why isn't he answering his telephone
and E-mail from his best buddies or anyone else. Is he that ill? --Cal
Starr*
> "Cal E. Rollins" wrote:
>
> > Pat, I doubt that Mark would be crazy enough to write on-line, publicly,
> > that people were on the take on TRB. Susan probably would, since she
> > frequently seems to get hysterical and spills her many beans. However,
> > most people are very careful about their secrets. I did hear this
> > on-the-take comment from another source off line and from a person not
> > having any reason to lie, but, at the time it just seemed too dumb and
> > didn't think it had any credibility. Hearing it again and observing the
> > responses, my investigative gate has opened. Promises to be great fun
> > whatever I find out. To the hounds, what!
>
> I read Nima accusing me of this months ago when he seemed angry. Lately, it
> seems to get bounced around between George, Michael, and Nima. As I said,
> though, even though I proved Nima wrong on the spot,
You never proved Nima wrong....to do that you need to post your income
tax report and an audit on the uhj....but no you haven't done that
because you know full well what it would show...the truth of everyone
who is on the payroll as thought police.
In the light of truth
Tahirih-Sitareh*
Pat Kohli
Michael McKenny wrote:
> Greetings, Pat.
> You shared with us:
>
> Pat Kohli (kohliCUT...@ameritel.net) writes:
> > Just because someone is saying it, does not make 'it' so.
>
> Precisely. It's not constantly and frequently asserting that the guys
> calling themselves UHJ are doing what God wants, that makes it so;
It is not for Baha'is to judge the UHJ.
> what
> they're doing can be compared with the spiritual principles of Baha'i and
> without anyone saying it, even once, everyone can see it, exactly as
> everyone can see the opposite no matter how many posts saying Baha'i
> includes the equality of women and men Pat Kohli "refutes".
I'm really far more concerned with what I do in my 24 hours a day, than with
what some people on the other side of the planet do. Of course, you are
completely entitled to fixate on those you regard as Nazis, just 15000
kilometers over the horizon. Do I treat women and men equally? Do I
transcend the stereotypes I was raised with? To me, advocacy of gender
equality demands that of me; advocacy for gender equality does not impel me to
campaign to modify the plumbing on some remote building, then wring my hands
that "they won't let me". Clearly, it is different strokes for different
folks.
>
> Now, come on, step forward and say, "Just because someone says Baha'i
> includes the equality of women and men doesn't make it so" or, "Sure
> Baha'i includes equality of men and women and only men can be on the UHJ."
Baha'i does include equality of men and women, but saying so, or saying women
ought to be on the UHJ, does nothing for the reality of gender equality.
Doing something about gender equality might entail a review of the household
chores, showing the girls how to check the air in their tires, as well as
showing the boys, showing the boys how to bake pies as well as turkeys, etc.
In a nutshell, advocacy for gender equality ought to impact the way I live my
life.
>
> or some other such "refutation" of the good thing that was said about
> Baha'i in the above paragraph.
> Your paymasters
Ad hominem, invalid, your attempt to introduce this is a concession that you
have no valid response.
(Snip)
Best wishes,
Pat Kohli
"Cal E. Rollins" wrote:
> Pat, this whole thing about what Mark Foster didn't say about you guys
> being on the AO-take, while I don't necessarily believe it, is
> comparable to saying Isfandar, a slave in our early Faith, along with
> the other slaves who hot-footed out of their when given the opportunity
> forf their freedom, was a happy Baha'i slave.
Mark Foster did not say I was on the take, and Nima has _not_ said that
Foster has said that I was on the take. Nima has said that Foster said that
someone was on the take. That could be you, Randy Burns, me, Paul Hammond,
Matt Menge, Julius Fuentes, or Jay Paine. After Nima alleged that Foster
said someone was on the take, he then claimed that neither Susan, nor I had
denied being on the take.
This was not any sort of credible allegation. He repeated a story which
could not be substantiated, and them turned to his usual suspects, and, in
this thread, he added Corax.
> We ain't heard the
> verification from Isfandar, have we? Nor are we likely to.
Mark is likely to check in, in a couple of months. In the mean time, we can
revisit the details of Nima's accusing, 'the usual suspects'
> In regard
> to the alleged take, we ain't heard from Mark Foster; nor are we likely
> to, are we? So, actually, we'll only know the partial truth when we
> hear from Mark's mouth. Right?
If there is any truth to this story, Mark will be able to tell it.
> Why isn't he answering his telephone
> and E-mail from his best buddies or anyone else. Is he that ill?
I recall he was the moderator of the AOL Baha'i forum, and there were
complaints about him beig out sick, or something.
xxxxxxxx reposted from me answering Nima's baseless allegations
xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Pat Kohli wrote:
> Saoshyant6 wrote:
>
> > In Her name the breaker of the idols of falsehood!
> >
>
> May she help you, too.
>
> >
> > Mark Foster has admitted in the past that the presence of various
> > individuals on the internet contains a financial dividend of up to
> > $10,000.00 + per annum by the satanic AO cult to its various online
> > agents. Susan Maniac has never explicitly denied that she recieves
> > financial assistance for her internet presence, and neither has Pat
> > Kohli.
>
> Nor has anyone asked me. Were anyone to ask me if I have recieved any
> money from the AO for being on the internet, I would answer as I say now,
> I have recieved no money from the AO for being on the internet. I have
> recived no money from the AO for anything. I have not been offered any
> money by the AO. I have not sought out any money from the AO.
>
> > Obviously if these people had real jobs with real lives they
> > would not be continually wheeled out to these sites to respond to
> > every single post posted by any percieved given enemy of their
> > corrupt, sleazy, satanic organization and cult which puts Scientology
> > to shame.
>
> If I had a real job, I might keep real hours and my posts might tend to
> fall in the timeframe when my wife watches TV, from dinner time to bed
> time. If I had a real job, I might even post on the tech groups!
> http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl3353581990d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&
> e=UTF-8&selm=3D65B0D4.420D5D50%40ameritel.net
>
>
> ttp://groups.google.com/groups?q=kohli+PCMCIA&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=3C491483.F15FF38%40ameritel.net&rnum=1
>
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=3CABDFC9.1BC8F97%40ameritel.net
>
> > Know that your secrets are all out and you will be brought
> > to account very soon.
> >
>
> Eeeewwwww, ew, misdah cahtah! Here is a suggestion, o your flatulence:
> get the goods, then post. Don't post based on a stewpid insulting hunch
> - that will just leave you looking stupid, insulting, and superstituos
> about your pet prejudices.
>
> >
> > You cultists in your silly delusions thought you can stop me or the
> > new Cause by trying to persecute and nip the new movement in the bud.
>
> Take your new number two, and get a new newsgroup; that is my advice.
> When you loiter here, you just make the legitimate critics look less
> credible, through association.
>
> >
> > Hah! The Bayaniyyah is growing by leaps and bounds and soon it will
> > overshadow all of you.
>
> You should have five newsgroups in five months.
>
> > Therefore your own days are numbered and the
> > crimes you have committed against humanity will soon be exposed for
> > the whole world to see.
>
> HooooRaaaaaay for our side!
>
> > As I said, I am the meteor here to cast you
> > all out and I have drawn out my Sword of Truth to hack off the
> > serpents head of falsehoods, deciet and lies which you sons and
> > daughters of the Evil One represent.
>
> I really liked the Tolkien movie.
>
> > As I am the Master of the Moment
> > (Sahib-e Zamaan), this time none of you will be getting off easy.
> >
>
> Yet, we will get off!
>
> >
> > Verily we are from Her and to Her we shall return completed!
>
> Amin!
xxxxxxxx end my repost of 20 December xxxxxxxxx
Best wishes,
Pat Kohli
Starr* wrote:
> Pat Kohli <kohliCUT...@ameritel.net> wrote in message news:<3E166BE5...@ameritel.net>...
> > "Cal E. Rollins" wrote:
> >
> > > Pat, I doubt that Mark would be crazy enough to write on-line, publicly,
> > > that people were on the take on TRB. Susan probably would, since she
> > > frequently seems to get hysterical and spills her many beans. However,
> > > most people are very careful about their secrets. I did hear this
> > > on-the-take comment from another source off line and from a person not
> > > having any reason to lie, but, at the time it just seemed too dumb and
> > > didn't think it had any credibility. Hearing it again and observing the
> > > responses, my investigative gate has opened. Promises to be great fun
> > > whatever I find out. To the hounds, what!
> >
> > I read Nima accusing me of this months ago when he seemed angry. Lately, it
> > seems to get bounced around between George, Michael, and Nima. As I said,
> > though, even though I proved Nima wrong on the spot,
>
> You never proved Nima wrong....
Oh, but I did.
> to do that you need to post your income
> tax report and an audit on the uhj....
Wrong. Among Nima's accusations was one that I had no real job, that this was my job. At the time, I
posted some links to technical messages I had posted to Usenet over the past year.
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=3CABDFC9.1BC8F97%40ameritel.net
I also pointed out that my posts tend to fall in clumps corresponding to evenings on the East Coast of
the US. Yeseterday I posted on a CWS day, every other Friday I have off from my day job.
Furthermore, were I to post my income tax report, anyone could claim that I had edited it!
> but no you haven't done that
> because you know full well what it would show...the truth of everyone
> who is on the payroll as thought police.
I had not posted my income tax information because I anticipate people like you would simply accuse me
of lying about it. You really can't accuse me of lying about those other usenet postings, and clearly
they have a lot to do with industrial use of computers (Software Engineering, Embedded Windows NT, and
Embedded Architiecture) and nothing to do with theology. Over the past few years I had worked on a
prototype for an integrated flight data recorder using commercial off the shelf components, and with
various functions and input types consolidated, then I worked on some other recorder. Now I am working
on a short project to port software from SGI to Linux. The fact that I am explaining my day job to
people on a religious group, suggests that some individuals are easily swayed by accusations made with
no evidence, even accusations made my someone with a history of making false accusations.
What is your job, Starr*? What evidence can you present that you are not here as a paid agent of Nima?
Neither you, nor Nima has posted any evidence that I am a paid agent of the AO, yet the accusations just
keep getting repeated.
>
> In the light of truth
> Tahirih-Sitareh*
You are clearly in the shadow of the cow pie! Why don't you find out how much money was paid by the US
Government for H-Bahai, over the past five years, and who got how much of that money?
Wishing you a clue,
marabeboos
> hehehe, who died and made you a spokesperson for the SCI ? As long as people
> engage in a dialogue and conversation by replying to the posts , I don't
> consider them spams and even though I may not agree with them but who am I
> to stop them . By the way if I were a Bahai you think I would let things go
> by so easily ???? hehehe I am a sympathizer with anyone who has been a
> victim of Islam and in that sense I am a Bahai, I am a Jew, I am a
> Christian, I am a Zoroastrian, I am a Hindu , I am a Budhist.So my MOOslim
> friend ! I never gang up against anyone with you !!! sorry :-(
No shit! Hee hee hee.
>
> Ariamehr
>
> "marabeboos" <marabeb...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:6c7b494a.03010...@posting.google.com...
> > Hey! Please take these kinds of bullshit talk to your own NG and do
> > not cross post to Iranian NG. Even some of your own Bahai members,
> > like Ariamehr, agree with me. This is an Iranian NG and we ARE NOT
> > interested in these kinds of talks.
> >
> > Iranian people here in SCI, like, Shumbool, Marabeboos, Ariamehr,
> > Peace 200x, Peacock, Sirknight, Mehrnoosh, Kiyanoush, and many more
> > feel exactly alike.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> > Pat Kohli <kohliCUT...@ameritel.net> wrote in message
> news:<3E13175E...@ameritel.net>...
> > > Saoshyant6 wrote:
> > >
> > > > She
> > > >
> > > > In the name of God the Glorified, the Holy!
> > > >
> > > > It would seem that hard financial times have hit Mr Duran and so in
> > >
> > > (snip)
> > >
> > > About two weeks ago you were posting similar crackles of flatulence. At
> > > the time, I advised you to get the goods, then post. That is, get the
> > > goods, then post.
> > >
> > >
> http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl2245488431d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&se
> lm=3E02AA27.6F5069F0%40ameritel.net
> > >
> > > Here, once again, you have an itch, and you scratch. Harry has a well
> > > known record criticizing the Guardian, the AO, and various aspects of
> the
> > > Baha'i Faith. Recently he has returned with no indication whatsoever
> that
> > > his views on the BF has changed one smidgin. Nobody but you and your
> cult
> > > followers would believe that Harry would take money to defend the BF,
> and,
> > > nobody but you and your cult followers would believe that the AO would
> > > offer someone like him any money to defend the BF.
> > >
> > > Harry is clearly here for you. You invited him, and you keep him
> through
> > > cheap stunts like the one above.
> > >
> > > Your continued shenanigans only further diminish the credibility of
> > > yourself and all you have said over the past 8 years.
> > >
> > > Grow up, and get your own newsgroup!
Dermod Ryder
"Cal E. Rollins" <crol...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:29589-3E1...@storefull-2332.public.lawson.webtv.net...
> Pat, I doubt that Mark would be crazy enough to write on-line,
publicly,
> that people were on the take on TRB. Susan probably would, since
she
> frequently seems to get hysterical and spills her many beans.
That explains the flatulence which charecterises her every outburst.
Thanks for that information, Cal. You have performed an inestimably
valuable service for mankind.
> However,
> most people are very careful about their secrets. I did hear this
> on-the-take comment from another source off line and from a person
not
> having any reason to lie, but, at the time it just seemed too dumb
and
> didn't think it had any credibility.
I take the suggestion that the AO makes financial assistance to
certain persons charged with advancing or defending its interests
online, under advisement and carefully file it for further attention
in the hope and expectation that definitive evidence, one way or the
other, shall be forthcoming. It would be entirely reckless to just
cast it aside as utterly ridiculous. After all an organisation which
has kept me under active surveillance for many years is capable of far
worse and, sadly, religious bodies, which ought to be paragons of
virtue, have all too often proven themselves to be the utter and
complete antithesis thereto.
>Hearing it again and observing the
> responses, my investigative gate has opened. Promises to be great
fun
> whatever I find out. To the hounds, what! --Cal
Tallyho!
Dermod.
>
Pat Kohli
"Cal E. Rollins" wrote:
Well, if you suppose that Mark Foster would never say such a thing online
(even if it were true), then you seem to be sceptical of Nima's initial
grasping for verisimulitude:
"Mark Foster has admitted in the past that the presence of various
individuals on the internet contains a financial dividend of up to
$10,000.00 + per annum by the satanic AO cult to its various online
agents. Susan Maniac has never explicitly denied that she recieves
financial assistance for her internet presence, and neither has Pat
Kohli. Obviously if these people had real jobs with real lives they..."
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl2342319397d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=de9e05b.0212191904.64f84796%40posting.google.com
I don't see that he has done anything, other than ignore the denials, to
advance his case.
Cal E. Rollins
make allegations that stick. Since he named Mark Foster as the
informant, it would be nice to hear from Mark. Is he alive? --Cal
Starr*
> I take the suggestion that the AO makes financial assistance to
> certain persons charged with advancing or defending its interests
> online, under advisement and carefully file it for further attention
> in the hope and expectation that definitive evidence, one way or the
> other, shall be forthcoming. It would be entirely reckless to just
> cast it aside as utterly ridiculous. After all an organisation which
> has kept me under active surveillance for many years is capable of far
> worse and, sadly, religious bodies, which ought to be paragons of
> virtue, have all too often proven themselves to be the utter and
> complete antithesis thereto.
Dermod, It is no secret that those 'learned' who keep those files on
the membership do receive salaries and perks...it is part of the
portfolio. In fact it was reported at a Convention in Perth in the
1990's by the Baha'i Financial Auditor that over 75% of the National
budget went to salaries (which was not what the charts the treasuer
produced said). Of course at the next election he was elected on to
the NSA and we haven't heard a peep since...so yes the salary payments
are not published for the average membership, and the Faith reserves
the right to keep those decisions of salaries to themselves. The CBC
present told the convention not to mention this to their LSA's as it
would only cause disunity. Not knowing where the money goes presents
deeper disunity IMO. And of course if one is benefitting one would
uphold the idea of keeping it 'secret'.
Starr*
Dermod Ryder
"Starr*" <star...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ef5e3d8.03010...@posting.google.com...
> Dermod, It is no secret that those 'learned' who keep those files on
> the membership do receive salaries and perks...it is part of the
> portfolio. In fact it was reported at a Convention in Perth in the
> 1990's by the Baha'i Financial Auditor that over 75% of the National
> budget went to salaries (which was not what the charts the treasuer
> produced said).
One has got to be careful here and distinguish between salaries paid
to legitimate and declared full and part time employees (and
reimbursement of reasonable expenses incurred in the execution of
their duties) and "black" payments that are undisclosed but
camouflaged under other headings but are for services rendered by the
hiring out of time and labour. The underlying problem is, of course
the lack of accountability within the system making it excessively
difficult to actually identify who is employed and paid and for what
services.
> Of course at the next election he was elected on to
> the NSA and we haven't heard a peep since...
Always the way with wannabe reformers who are actually just
electioneering. The powers that be always help that campaign - best
way to shut the bugger up!
> so yes the salary payments
> are not published for the average membership, and the Faith reserves
> the right to keep those decisions of salaries to themselves. The CBC
> present told the convention not to mention this to their LSA's as it
> would only cause disunity. Not knowing where the money goes presents
> deeper disunity IMO. And of course if one is benefitting one would
> uphold the idea of keeping it 'secret'.
Naturally! but my point is that if they are paying anybody to be on
the Internet they are really scraping the barrel if they are paying
the DST. They could do so much better. Granted, as Michael says, she
is the best quarterback they have but she really should have a ball if
she is to play the game in any meaningful way.
They could have had me on a free transfer at one stage but we couldn't
agree terms - they said one thing and then contradicted themselves.
I'm still available but the cost would be considerable now and it's
going up all the time. During the weeks I was absent the DST was
ranting on here like a woman possessed - the minute I'm back, she's
offside like a shot and asking Pat to agree terms for her to come
back, unless, of course, he decided to do that of his own volition.
I could be wrong - maybe old Bobalong has mailed her again to keep her
butt well down in the foxhole when I'm in action but then that would
be six of one as it would only confirm that the DST is my inferior and
cannot answer or refute what I say. Geez! Isn't it grand to be put
in the plonk tank!!!!!
Dermod.
Dermod.
Dermod Ryder
> >
> > The second element of my spirituality would consist of the
'remembrance' of
> > the sufferings of the Manifestations. Hence Baha'u'llah says,
"Remember My days
> > during thy days and my distress and banishment in this remote
prison." The
> > sufferings of the Manifestation are 'redemptive' in the sense that
through them
> > we come to understand the depth of God's love, that through the
Manifestation
> > He is present and suffering with and for us.
>
> If you are into suffering there are probably quite a few who would
> like to give you a helping hand if it really meant there'd be a
> transformation - you could ask Lord Nima. Think about it.
I'd be pleased to give her a helping hand - there are cliffs in
Ireland, you know!
Pat Kohli
"Cal E. Rollins" wrote:
I have not seen Mark here, or anywere else on line in about 18 months, to
the best of my recollection.
Pat Kohli
Dermod Ryder wrote:
> (snip)During the weeks I was absent the DST was
> ranting on here like a woman possessed - the minute I'm back, she's
> offside like a shot and asking Pat to agree terms for her to come
> back, unless, of course, he decided to do that of his own volition.
>
That was my own volition. I do a lot of stuff on my own volition, and
nobody pays me cash money, but I hope there are a few laughs and smiles,
and I'll smile for sure.
>
> I could be wrong - maybe old Bobalong has mailed her again to keep her
> butt well down in the foxhole when I'm in action but then that would
> be six of one as it would only confirm that the DST is my inferior and
> cannot answer or refute what I say. Geez! Isn't it grand to be put
> in the plonk tank!!!!!
Grand!
Starr*
SM would probably prefer the SM technique judging from her posts...but
then I don't know if the Irish are into that kind of thing...unless
cliff-hanging is a precursor to the big thrill....helping hand or no
helping hand enjoy it...and you can get the title Lord of the flies.
Dermod Ryder
would
> > > like to give you a helping hand if it really meant there'd be a
> > > transformation - you could ask Lord Nima. Think about it.
> >
> > I'd be pleased to give her a helping hand - there are cliffs in
> > Ireland, you know!
>
> SM would probably prefer the SM technique judging from her posts...
And what would that be?
>but
> then I don't know if the Irish are into that kind of thing...
And sure if we're not, we might be!
>unless
> cliff-hanging is a precursor to the big thrill....
Won't and can't speak for anywheres else but here, it's the precursor
to the big fall ... not that that has ever been known to injure or
kill anybody ... it's the sudden stop at the bottom that seems to do
the damage.
> helping hand or no
> helping hand enjoy it...and you can get the title Lord of the flies.
The zippers are all fine and well!
Dermod Ryder
>
> "Cal E. Rollins" wrote:
>
> > Pat, well I agree that one must have some kind of proof before one
can
> > make allegations that stick. Since he named Mark Foster as the
> > informant, it would be nice to hear from Mark. Is he alive?
>
> I have not seen Mark here, or anywere else on line in about 18
months, to
> the best of my recollection.
He hasn't been about since the great engagement with the Reaper and
the schism fomenting allegations which turned out to be as damp a
squib as anything that ever has emanated from the DST. I think he's a
better quarterback than the DST - after all the payment allegations
first surfaced surrounding him and not the fumbler from Jackson or, as
she is known in certain circles, the "Mrs Doyle" of the AO.
Dermod.
Dermod Ryder
> Hey!
>
> Dermod Ryder wrote:
>
> > (snip)During the weeks I was absent the DST was
> > ranting on here like a woman possessed - the minute I'm back,
she's
> > offside like a shot and asking Pat to agree terms for her to come
> > back, unless, of course, he decided to do that of his own
volition.
> >
>
> That was my own volition. I do a lot of stuff on my own volition,
and
> nobody pays me cash money, but I hope there are a few laughs and
smiles,
> and I'll smile for sure.
She doesn't deserve you and your efforts would be best employed
elsewhere, certainly in respect of that particular example of low
life.
> > I could be wrong - maybe old Bobalong has mailed her again to keep
her
> > butt well down in the foxhole when I'm in action but then that
would
> > be six of one as it would only confirm that the DST is my inferior
and
> > cannot answer or refute what I say. Geez! Isn't it grand to be
put
> > in the plonk tank!!!!!
>
> Grand!
You mean that I'm in it .... again!?!?!?
Dermod.
Cal E. Rollins
anybody know how to effectively contact him and find out how he's doing?
--Cal
Cal E. Rollins
is that about Pat allowing her to come back? Does Pat own this list?
--Cal
george.fleming2
Rollins at crol...@webtv.net wrote on 8/1/03 3:45 pm:
> Pat, well I'm upset about Mark. Is he disaffected, you think? Does
> anybody know how to effectively contact him and find out how he's doing?
> --Cal
Cal, Mark Foster dropped out of Baha'i Studies shortly after the 9/11 WTC
disaster and no one could contact him. There were heated debates amongst
some of the subscribers on Baha'i Studies with Mark (around that time )
although if I can remember rightly neither Susan maneck or myself were
involved. He just left without saying anything. Bahai studies was also
started by Mark Foster I believe........................GF
Pat Kohli
Dermod Ryder wrote:
> "Pat Kohli" <kohliCUT...@ameritel.net> wrote in message
> news:3E1BA3A7...@ameritel.net...
>
> > > (snip) Geez! Isn't it grand to be
> put
> > > in the plonk tank!!!!!
> >
> > Grand!
>
> You mean that I'm in it .... again!?!?!?
>
Of course you are not in mine again. I figured you were still in Susan's,
on one of her profiles.
Best wishes!
-
Pat Kohli
"Cal E. Rollins" wrote:
> Dermod, are you saying here that Susan has dropped out of TRB? Or what
> is that about Pat allowing her to come back? Does Pat own this list?
>
Cal, I do not own the list. This is usenet, not a mail list. The group is
public, like most of the newsgroups that I know of. There is a charter.
Ron House and Fred Glaysher sponsored TRB.
Here is the charter
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
The charter, culled from the vote result announcement:
All topics or ideas relevant to the Baha'i faith -- its history, teachings,
theology, etc. -- would be appropriate areas for discussion.
Talk.religion.bahai fills the need for a fully open and universally
accessible Internet forum about the Baha'i Faith. Postings may take any
point of view with regard to the Baha'i Faith. While this allows
criticism, it also fully opens the door for enquirers to see with their own
eyes and not through the eyes of their neighbors, asking questions and
reading replies from anyone who is interested in their question.
Readers are asked to observe standard netiquette in their use of this
newsgroup.
Readers are asked to observe Baha'i standards of conduct and not to start
or prolong flamewars in the group, but to focus instead on articles and
threads written in more moderate terms.
The posting of articles not relevant to the Baha'i Faith is prohibited.
Large ASCII graphics, large binaries, pornography, spam, and any postings
of a purely personal or commercial nature are prohibited. To facilitate
viewing in news readers that are not HTML-capable, HTML-formatted postings
are strongly discouraged.
Cross-posting to irrelevant groups is also discouraged, and readers are
encouraged to redirect follow-ups to reduce excessive cross-posting.
Readers may also post articles that have been rejected from
soc.religion.bahai, so long as they conform to this charter.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Dermod Ryder
"Pat Kohli" <ko...@ameritel.net> wrote in message
news:3E1CB66D...@ameritel.net...
In yours AGAIN! I didn't know I had ever been in it once!
As for being in the DST's plonk tank, that's old news. You cannot get
any respect or status as a critic around here if you haven't pissed
her off at least once!
Dermod.
>
> Best wishes!
> -
>
Starr*
> > > > If you are into suffering there are probably quite a few who
> would
> > > > like to give you a helping hand if it really meant there'd be a
> > > > transformation - you could ask Lord Nima. Think about it.
> > >
> > > I'd be pleased to give her a helping hand - there are cliffs in
> > > Ireland, you know!
> >
> > SM would probably prefer the SM technique judging from her posts...
>
> And what would that be?
You could call it the Susan Maneck or SadoMachosism Technique - take
your pick.
> >but
> > then I don't know if the Irish are into that kind of thing...
>
> And sure if we're not, we might be!
Yeah - all things work together for the good of God.....
>
> >unless
> > cliff-hanging is a precursor to the big thrill....
>
> Won't and can't speak for anywheres else but here, it's the precursor
> to the big fall
Yeah - 'Look Mom! No hands' - I can do it all by myself.
... not that that has ever been known to injure or
> kill anybody ... it's the sudden stop at the bottom that seems to do
> the damage.
Wonder then, is that how the Lord gets to understand human suffering
that she was talking about in Bahai belief of why she's a Baha'i.
>
> > helping hand or no
> > helping hand enjoy it...and you can get the title Lord of the flies.
>
> The zippers are all fine and well!
Then you can dedicate the song - 'I did it my way'.
Glad getting to know ThySelf has other levels
Starr*
Michael McKenny
Pat Kohli (kohliCUT...@ameritel.net) writes:
> "Cal E. Rollins" wrote:
>
>> Pat, well I agree that one must have some kind of proof before one can
>> make allegations that stick. Since he named Mark Foster as the
>> informant, it would be nice to hear from Mark. Is he alive?
>
> I have not seen Mark here, or anywere else on line in about 18 months, to
> the best of my recollection.
At least under the name Mark Foster. As to seeing him posting under
other names, that's a horse of a different colour, eh?
Nur Allah
> Best wishes!
> - Pat
--
"My name's McKenny, Mike McKenny, Warrant Officer, Solar Guard."
(Tom Corbett #1 STAND BY FOR MARS p2)
Michael McKenny
You shared with us:
Pat Kohli (kohliCUT...@ameritel.net) writes:
> Hey!
>
> Dermod Ryder wrote:
>
>> (snip)During the weeks I was absent the DST was
>> ranting on here like a woman possessed - the minute I'm back, she's
>> offside like a shot and asking Pat to agree terms for her to come
>> back, unless, of course, he decided to do that of his own volition.
>>
>
> That was my own volition.
No way to tell for sure, but it doesn't matter. Whatever's said can be
assessed on its own merit. It doesn't matter whether one is commanded to
face the waves of truth on TRB with a fundy spin, or does so of one's own
volition, the fundy spin can be assessed for what it is, and the truth
shines forth notwithstanding what kind of fundies seeks to refute it.
>I do a lot of stuff on my own volition, and
> nobody pays me cash money, but I hope there are a few laughs and smiles,
> and I'll smile for sure.
>
So you say, but again it's irrelevant.
>> I could be wrong - maybe old Bobalong has mailed her again to keep her
>> butt well down in the foxhole when I'm in action but then that would
>> be six of one as it would only confirm that the DST is my inferior and
>> cannot answer or refute what I say. Geez! Isn't it grand to be put
>> in the plonk tank!!!!!
>
> Grand!
Ah, if only they'd begun by simply not reading what Linda Walbridge,
Juan et al were saying, rather than strain every nerve to hound them out of
Baha'i, how much better would recent (that's since the mid 90s here, Pat)
Baha'i history have been! if instead of demanding everyone speak only what
was from a literalist fundy canon, they'd simply let everyone have a say
and avoid reading what they found so convincingly non-fundy, how much
grander would that recent history have been.
To a Better Future, Nur Allah
Michael McKenny
Pat Kohli (ko...@ameritel.net) writes:
> Of course you are not in mine again. I figured you were still in Susan's,
> on one of her profiles.
Freedom of thought and expression. The Baha'i standard is to share and
listen to the rainbow of thoughts and understandings. If you can't meet
that standard, then the liberal-democratic standards of the best outside
societies is something worth doing. Anyone can have her/his say and if you
can't stand the irrefutable Baha'i spiritual principles at least you
simply cease reading these. if only this had been the policy on the
e-lists back in the mid 90s. Ah, well,
To a Better Future, Nur Allah
> Best wishes!