From "The Times"
Viv
December 10, 2008
A human right to education for Baha’i
Call for access to education for all members of the Iranian Baha'i
community
Sir, Today is United Nations Human Rights Day. This year the day marks
the 60th anniversary of the adoption and proclamation of the Universal
Declaration of Human Rights. Article 26 of the Declaration reads:
“Everyone has the right to education” and “Higher education shall be
equally accessible to all on the basis of merit”.
We express our grave concern at the policy of the government of the
Islamic Republic of Iran to deny access to education to members of its
largest non-Muslim religious minority, the Baha’i faith.
Baha’is have been denied access to university for years but it is now
reported that high schools and primary schools across Iran have begun
to identify and expel pupils who are of the Baha’i faith. Such
expulsions are a breach of Iran’s obligations under Article 13 of the
Covenant of Economic, Cultural and Social Rights. We believe that this
policy is manifestly unjust. It also sits ill at ease with Iran’s
history of respect for learning.
We call upon the Government of Iran to allow full and unfettered
access to education for all members of the Iranian Baha’i community,
and to cease the harassment of Baha’is at any and all centres of
learning in Iran.
Lord Parekh of Kingston-upon-Hull
Baroness Kennedy of the Shaws
Deborah Orr
Mairead Corrigan Maguire Nobel Peace Laureate
Professor Stephen Chan Department of Political and International
Studies, SOAS
Professor Geraldine van Bueren Queen Mary University of London
Professor Peter Finn Principal, St Mary’s University College, Belfast
Professor Tony Gallagher School of Education, St Mary’s University
College, Belfast
Lord Gifford
Bishop Idris Jones Primus of the Scottish Episcopal Church
The Right Rev David Lunan Moderator of the General Assembly of the
Church of Scotland
Norman Richardson Stranmillis College, Belfast
Pierrot Ngadi Co-ordinator, Refugee Wales
Francis Davis Director, International Young Leaders Network
Patrick Yu Executive Director, Northern Ireland Council for Ethnic
Minorities
Professor Colin Sucking Former Vice Principal, University of
Strathclyde
The Most Rev Keith Patrick O’Brien Cardinal and Archbishop of St
Andrews and Edinburgh
Sock-Puppet'ullah
http://groups.google.com.au/group/talk.religion.bahai/browse_thread/thread/e064653f248c7943#
http://groups.google.com.au/group/talk.religion.bahai/browse_thread/thread/a8c140b31a62a6e4#
http://groups.google.com.au/group/talk.religion.bahai/browse_thread/thread/b8e1df9f4dfe759b#
http://groups.google.com.au/group/talk.religion.bahai/browse_thread/thread/ec0c30d804164127#
http://groups.google.com.au/group/talk.religion.bahai/browse_thread/thread/8bb0a905ad24d1cc#
Viv
maybe...@gmail.com
So this is all you have to say. Nothing. You jump and down and pour
forth so many words protesting the persecution of members of your
community, and then you and your organization are faced with its elite
members being directly involved with the development and manufacture
of weapons-as being utterly complicit in a military-industrial complex
that is THE VERY ROOT of the oppression and human rights abuses you
claim to oppose, and you have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to say.
Viv
>
> - Show quoted text -
Your annoyance that the lies, unsubstantiated accusations, and
fantasies of Nima and you are being ignored is clealry getting to
you.
And shame on you for making decent people's outrage at the despicable
treatment of Baha'i children and students in Iran a mere excuse for
your continued ranting.
maybe...@gmail.com
Oh pleaeeeeeese! I could wait all day for responses which display such
supreme incisiveness as this one! Funny that you're now adopting the
'ignoring' policy, since you and others have spent such huge amounts
of time pouring over the excruciating minutia of previous posts.
Anyway, what 'lies' and 'fantasies' are you talking about? You mean
the 'lie' about the Tayebi family being involve in the weapons and
biotech business? That they're Bahai's (hey, they said it! - fled from
persecution in Iran and all that) The 'lie' that Pat Kohli is a
weapons system software engineer/developer? Had no clarification on
that issue, even when it was initially proposed as a 'rumor' that
could have been denied. The 'lie' that the Taybei's are in business
with Ziyad Abduljawad? Read the share listings (got plenty more too,
if you want a few extra sources) This is all PUBLIC DOMAIN
information. I suggest you remind yourself of that fact. Please, go
through and highlight the elements of the 'fantasy' which relate to
each case.
Regardless, the totally uncharacteristic response time on all of these
issues clearly demonstrates you haven't got a clue how to spin them
this time.
> And shame on you for making decent people's outrage at the despicable
> treatment of Baha'i children and students in Iran a mere excuse for
> your continued ranting.
And so decent people shouldn't be outraged about the manufacture of
weapons by members of the Baha'i faith, especially on this special day
for the cause of human rights?
I'm not the one who makes weapons, honey. Read my 'rant' again-
carefully- "you and your organization are faced with its elite
members being directly involved with the development and manufacture
of weapons-as being utterly complicit in a military-industrial complex
that is THE VERY ROOT of the oppression and human rights abuses you
claim to oppose."
The Tayebi family left Iran, supposedly because of their persecution
as Baha'is. Read the article again (http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/
business/20060418-9999-1b18tayebi.html).
"In the city, they needed to speak Farsi. The Tayebis also practiced
the Bahai faith, making them part of a tiny minority in a nation of
predominantly Shiite Muslims."
"After the revolution in Iran, the persecution of the Bahai became
more severe, and they no longer were allowed to attend school.
Tayebi's father sent the children to England to continue their
educations. Tayebi excelled, earning a master's degree in electronics
engineering from the University of Southampton and a doctorate in
mobile radio propagation from the University of Liverpool."
Now, the Tayebi's make weapons for a government who has been waging
war against their brothers and sisters in the region; the men, women
and children of the Middle East. Here's the funny thing. Your
organization DENOUNCES ITS OWN MEMBERS who question its authority, or
attack anyone who questions its status as the ultimate 'peace loving,
non-partisan religious body' on the planet, and you won't say ANYTHING
about the Tayebi's and their related businesses. Outside observers
must then assume you don't have a problem with such profound
contradictions. Which places you in a very difficult position.
> And shame on you for making decent people's outrage at the despicable
> treatment of Baha'i children and students in Iran a mere excuse for
> your continued ranting.
So you don't want the fragile sentiments of your post from The Times
(which I'd also like a link to please) sullied by its exposure to
wider human rights issues from within the Baha'i organization that it
is the duty of the Baha'i faith to address? Trust me. People will
still be outraged about Baha'i children and students and their
education- I certainly don't agree with any persecution of this kind.
I'd just be interested to know how the Baha'i representative to the UN
would address the issue of the Tayebi family on this most auspicious
anniversary for the cause of human rights. I'm all for decent people
and their outrage Viv, in case you hadn't noticed.
Sock-Puppet'ullah
And this coming from a well established LIAR and cultist hack who has
yet to provide a single line of evidence proving her below-the-belt
allegations about the Taheri letter. That said, feel free at any time
to directly critique any of the actual source material we have put up
proving the unassailability of our allegations -- and while you're at
it, dear hack, also provide a URL link to your "Times" article as
well. Given the penchant for you cultists to fabricate news material,
like Susan Maniac did, kindly provide the source for this article.
And we are not the annoyed ones. Eminently it is you cultists who are
reeling over this material being put up here right now.
W
All Bad
news:63add1d4-0d82-4e01...@v42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
MIA1: So this is all you have to say. Nothing. You jump and down and pour
MIA1: forth so many words protesting the persecution of members of your
MIA1: community, and then you and your organization are faced with its elite
MIA1: members being directly involved with the development and manufacture
MIA1: of weapons-as being utterly complicit in a military-industrial complex
What elite members are making what weapons?
In my community there have been active duty Navy Baha'is as well as civilian
employees and contractors, none of whom were an ABM, or Assitant, or anyone
that might be categorized as an elite, nor were any of them making weapons
or torturing people, or anything like that.
I know for a fact that avionics and surveillance systems are over priced.
There are new aircraft tail numbers, not new models, with computers and LANs
from the 1990s; they cost 5 time more than contemporary computers and have
one tenth the power. The people trying to defend this nation and the people
footing the bill are not getting a fair shake, and if some Baha'is can help
provide a more affordable, less onerous defense, that is laudable, and it
has _nothing_ to do with the plight of Baha'is in Iran.
That some Baha'i is trying to give the defenders of this country and the
taxpayers a better deal than what they are getting, seems to be a point of
criticism from some Australian on this board and you had nothing to say
about that. Are you happy to see the sevicemen and US taxpayers getting
overcharged and undersupported through inefficiencies and neglect?
MIA1: that is THE VERY ROOT of the oppression and human rights abuses you
MIA1: claim to oppose, and you have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to say.
Prejudice is a part of the problem.
- All Bad
All Bad
<maybe...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5eae9fef-9dc1-481c...@a29g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
MIA1: Oh pleaeeeeeese! I could wait all day for responses which display
such
MIA1: supreme incisiveness as this one! Funny that you're now adopting the
MIA1: 'ignoring' policy, since you and others have spent such huge amounts
MIA1: of time pouring over the excruciating minutia of previous posts.
MIA1: Anyway, what 'lies' and 'fantasies' are you talking about? You mean
MIA1: the 'lie' about the Tayebi family being involve in the weapons and
MIA1: biotech business? That they're Bahai's (hey, they said it! - fled
from
MIA1: persecution in Iran and all that) The 'lie' that Pat Kohli is a
MIA1: weapons system software engineer/developer? Had no clarification on
This was not news to the old timers. George Fleming sorted this out years
ago and spammed me to death and found another Baha'is employer and spammed
her place of business.
I can't sort out if it is or is not Azal's intent to harass the local
litercay council, or the local Rotary or the US Navy about me being a Baha'.
Some days he says it is my job to be here and some days he says it is my job
to do other stuff, so I don't guess at his point or intent, some times.
- All Bad
MIA1: that issue, even when it was initially proposed as a 'rumor' that
Sock-Puppet'ullah
When you are finally sprung put on the best spin you can...
On Dec 13, 11:39 pm, "All Bad" <AllBad_notrea...@md.metrocast.net>
wrote:
> That some Baha'i is trying to give the defenders of this country and the
> taxpayers a better deal than what they are getting, seems to be a point of
> criticism from some Australian on this board and you had nothing to say
> about that. Are you happy to see the sevicemen and US taxpayers getting
> overcharged and undersupported through inefficiencies and neglect?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA - ROTFLMAO :)) So the arms trade and defense
contracting business is like a bazzaar of hagglers or clearing house,
like used car salesmen vying for business by giving lowest retail
prices on the market. So you are a like a used car dealer, you say?
Thank you, Pat, for this gem of a birthday present you gave me.
W
maybe...@gmail.com
Well we could sit here and argue about wether the Tayebi family
(amongst others) could be called 'elite' members of the Baha'i faith
from an economic perspective- they certainly classify as elite members
of a US military contract provision body. Though I will answer Paul
Hammond's queries regarding why this is a problem in a different
thread, let's just remind ourselves of their involvement. I certainly
look forward to seeing just how many of the Baha'i community are
involved in these kinds ventures.
(from article below)
"Earlier this year, Kratos announced the award of a $100 million
indefinite delivery/indefinite quantity (IDIQ) prime contract to
support the Department of Defense at the White Sands Missile Range to
provide rocket launch and engineering services and associated hardware
for the Army, Navy, and Air Force."
http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/081104/153755.html
Kratos Defense & Security Solutions Receives Award as Top Technology &
I.T. Services Company in San Diego
Tuesday November 4, 8:30 am ET
Recognition of Innovation On Oriole Rocket Program
SAN DIEGO, Nov. 4, 2008 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- Kratos Defense & Security
Solutions, Inc. (NasdaqGS:KTOS - News), a leading national defense,
information technology and homeland security solutions provider, today
announced that it received an award from the American Electronics
Association (AEA) as the leading Technology and I.T. Services company
in San Diego.The award is reflective of the diverse base of Kratos'
operations and provides further recognition of the technological
achievement and innovation of the Oriole Rocket System, developed by
Kratos' Rocket Support Services business unit. The Kratos Oriole
Rocket is an integral part of the United States' Missile Defense
program.
``I am very pleased that the AEA has recognized Kratos and our efforts
on this very critical program,'' said Howard Bates, President of the
Advanced Technical Solutions Division of Kratos. ``Our established
track record of providing innovative, cost effective solutions is
critical to continued growth as the premier provider of rocket and
suborbital missile defense testing and evaluation solutions.''
Earlier this year, Kratos announced the award of a $100 million
indefinite delivery/indefinite quantity (IDIQ) prime contract to
support the Department of Defense at the White Sands Missile Range to
provide rocket launch and engineering services and associated hardware
for the Army, Navy, and Air Force.
Kratos has exclusive rights to market the Oriole rocket motor for
three key applications: Sounding rockets, suborbital research, and
target rockets. The key members of Kratos' Rocket Support Services
business were formerly involved with the NASA sounding rocket program
and each have over 40 years of experience launching sounding rockets.
About Kratos Defense & Security Solutions
Kratos Defense & Security Solutions, Inc. (NasdaqGS:KTOS - News)
provides mission critical engineering, IT services and war fighter
solutions for the U.S. federal government and for state and local
agencies. Principal services include C4ISR, weapon systems lifecycle
support, military weapon range and technical services, network
engineering services, advanced IT services, security and surveillance
systems, and critical infrastructure design and integration. The
Company is headquartered in San Diego, California, with resources
throughout the U.S. and at key strategic military locations. News and
information are available at http://www.KratosDefense.com.
>
> I know for a fact that avionics and surveillance systems are over priced.
> There are new aircraft tail numbers, not new models, with computers and LANs
> from the 1990s; they cost 5 time more than contemporary computers and have
> one tenth the power. The people trying to defend this nation and the people
> footing the bill are not getting a fair shake, and if some Baha'is can help
> provide a more affordable, less onerous defense, that is laudable, and it
> has _nothing_ to do with the plight of Baha'is in Iran.
Dealing with tools of oppression, Pat. Tools of oppression. As an
ACTUAL lover of peace, my concerns about the efficiency of the
military are somewhat diminished. But I'd say that there is far more
room for outrage in wasting so much taxpayer money in utterly unjust
wars in the first place. That said, we can even start a new thread
about it if you like, so that the plight of the Baha'is in Iran
remains clearly distinguished from issues to do with Baha'i
involvement in the US military!
Oh yeah, and I assume by 'less onerous' defense, you mean you're not
having to stand face to face with the people you're trying to kill?
You can just do it more accurately and from farther away?
http://www.dcmilitary.com/dcmilitary_archives/stories/110905/38174-1.shtml
Young also asked about challenges facing the E-2 program, with regards
to software integration. Pat Kohli, NCW Open Architecture Lead,
demonstrated how the E-2/C-2 program office (PMA-231) is continuously
evaluating and implementing software modernization to facilitate
transition of the existing E-2 operational flight program to an
environment using commercially available systems.
Venlet said, "The Naval Aviation Enterprise has embraced open
architecture as a fundamental building block of weapon system
development from its very inception. Our government/industry teams
continue to leverage these open system strategies and concepts in
achieving reduction in overall development cycle times and delivering
increased system capabilities to the Fleet faster and cheaper. The
advantages of integrating open architecture designs and contracting
strategies are measurable and pronounced as is substantiated by our
E-2D Advanced Hawkeye and P-8 Multi-Mission Aircraft development
programs. The key to continued success will be maintaining the close
partnership with industry experts, as we provide the right
capabilities, at the right time and right cost to the joint
warfighter."
The E-2 Hawkeye team has been representing and directly supporting
Venlet's executive office - the aviation domain lead for open
architecture initiatives - since June 2004, because of its role as a
battle management command and control platform and a central network
communications node in aviation. E-2 Program Manager Capt. Randy Mahr
said, "Today's evolving E-2 open architecture model paves the way for
a more mature system to be used by the E-2D prior to it taking its
place in the fleet."
"Open architecture is a business strategy aimed at utilizing and
integrating commercial systems, processes and standards, in order to
provide improved capabilities to the warfighter more quickly, at lower
cost and with greater interoperability than if they were developed and
fielded through the standard acquisition process," said Rothback.
>
> That some Baha'i is trying to give the defenders of this country and the
> taxpayers a better deal than what they are getting, seems to be a point of
> criticism from some Australian on this board and you had nothing to say
> about that. Are you happy to see the sevicemen and US taxpayers getting
> overcharged and undersupported through inefficiencies and neglect?
Oh, bless you Pat. I'm going to frame this response and draw little
stars around it! I guess it's not ok for Bahai's to carry weapons, but
it is ok to help make them and sail about on them (ie as active duty
navy Baha'is such as those in your community- AB "in my community
there have been active duty Navy Baha'is as well as civilian
employees and contractors,"). What about the World Police that will
administer the Baha'i New World order?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_world_order_(Bahá'í)
Some of the principles outlined in the New World Order include
universal peace; the unity of religion; the setting up a world
government which could enact laws required to satisfy the needs of all
people; an elected world parliament; a binding world tribunal; a world
police force; a universal bill of human rights; the universal right to
education; the setting up of an auxiliary universal language, the
continued diversity of culture; a system of world commerce through the
establishment of an equitable economic system where the economic
security of the individual is assured.[4][5]
Ok for Baha'is to join that "Police Force", develop cheaper more
efficient weapons for them, and give the taxpayers of the global
society the best deal on the weapons that will help keep them under
control? I look forward to the next installment of "Baha'is in my
backyard", "Baha'is in my Military", in which we watch duty bound
members of this peace loving religion haggling to get best price for
surface to air missile systems!
>
> MIA1: that is THE VERY ROOT of the oppression and human rights abuses you
> MIA1: claim to oppose, and you have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to say.
>
> Prejudice is a part of the problem.
>
> - All Bad
You're damn right it's part of the problem! I'm sure there are many
well intentioned Baha'is, who are good people, and who may well
believe the lies of the upper echelons of their organization, but are
essentially caught up in a monstrous web of power and influence which
they probably don't really understand themselves (this goes especially
for kids who are discriminated against). However, the road to hell is
paved with good intentions, as they say. Those who KNOWINGLY
participate in a total bald faced lie about the fundamental principles
of the 'faith' (ie love of peace, non-participation in politics etc
etc etc), who realize that its members are DIRECTLY involved in the
development and manufacture of weapons for the US government, well,
for them there should be nothing but contempt. So shall we see any
criticism from the Baha'i governing body of the Tayebi family (amongst
others)? I can't wait to see. I look forward to answering more of your
concerns when my hands stop shaking from the irony of the emerging
situation ;-)
Sock-Puppet'ullah
All Bad
<maybe...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d5b589b5-94bb-4aa6...@r10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
MIA1: Well we could sit here and argue about wether the Tayebi family
(amongst others) could be called 'elite' members of the Baha'i faith
from an economic perspective- they certainly classify as elite members
of a US military contract provision body. Though I will answer Paul
Hammond's queries regarding why this is a problem in a different
thread, let's just remind ourselves of their involvement. I certainly
look forward to seeing just how many of the Baha'i community are
involved in these kinds ventures.
(from article below)
MIA1: "Earlier this year, Kratos announced the award of a $100 million
indefinite delivery/indefinite quantity (IDIQ) prime contract to
support the Department of Defense at the White Sands Missile Range to
provide rocket launch and engineering services and associated hardware
for the Army, Navy, and Air Force."
http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/081104/153755.html
MIA1: Kratos Defense & Security Solutions Receives Award as Top Technology &
I.T. Services Company in San Diego
Tuesday November 4, 8:30 am ET
Recognition of Innovation On Oriole Rocket Program
MIA1: SAN DIEGO, Nov. 4, 2008 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- Kratos Defense & Security
Solutions, Inc. (NasdaqGS:KTOS - News), a leading national defense,
information technology and homeland security solutions provider, today
announced that it received an award from the American Electronics
Association (AEA) as the leading Technology and I.T. Services company
in San Diego.The award is reflective of the diverse base of Kratos'
operations and provides further recognition of the technological
achievement and innovation of the Oriole Rocket System, developed by
Kratos' Rocket Support Services business unit. The Kratos Oriole
Rocket is an integral part of the United States' Missile Defense
program.
MIA1: ``I am very pleased that the AEA has recognized Kratos and our efforts
on this very critical program,'' said Howard Bates, President of the
Advanced Technical Solutions Division of Kratos. ``Our established
track record of providing innovative, cost effective solutions is
critical to continued growth as the premier provider of rocket and
suborbital missile defense testing and evaluation solutions.''
MIA1: Earlier this year, Kratos announced the award of a $100 million
indefinite delivery/indefinite quantity (IDIQ) prime contract to
support the Department of Defense at the White Sands Missile Range to
provide rocket launch and engineering services and associated hardware
for the Army, Navy, and Air Force.
MIA1: Kratos has exclusive rights to market the Oriole rocket motor for
three key applications: Sounding rockets, suborbital research, and
target rockets. The key members of Kratos' Rocket Support Services
business were formerly involved with the NASA sounding rocket program
and each have over 40 years of experience launching sounding rockets.
MIA1: About Kratos Defense & Security Solutions
MIA1: Kratos Defense & Security Solutions, Inc. (NasdaqGS:KTOS - News)
provides mission critical engineering, IT services and war fighter
solutions for the U.S. federal government and for state and local
agencies. Principal services include C4ISR, weapon systems lifecycle
support, military weapon range and technical services, network
engineering services, advanced IT services, security and surveillance
systems, and critical infrastructure design and integration. The
Company is headquartered in San Diego, California, with resources
throughout the U.S. and at key strategic military locations. News and
information are available at http://www.KratosDefense.com.
>
> I know for a fact that avionics and surveillance systems are over priced.
> There are new aircraft tail numbers, not new models, with computers and
> LANs
> from the 1990s; they cost 5 time more than contemporary computers and have
> one tenth the power. The people trying to defend this nation and the
> people
> footing the bill are not getting a fair shake, and if some Baha'is can
> help
> provide a more affordable, less onerous defense, that is laudable, and it
> has _nothing_ to do with the plight of Baha'is in Iran.
MIA1: Dealing with tools of oppression, Pat. Tools of oppression. As an
What tools of oppression are you referring to? I feel like I am repeating
myself! I can only wonder if you read what you post, or if you did, perhaps
you don't bother to translate the jargon? If it is the latter, I'll break
it down for you. White Sands is a test range for missiles and missile
defense. Missile defense tests often use target missiles. Kratos has a
target missile, the Oriole, and they support the test range, perhaps with
technical assistance for tests and test shots and analysis. The Oriole is a
low cost alternative target missile, per this link:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/space/library/news/2007/space-070301-atk01.htm
MIA1: ACTUAL lover of peace, my concerns about the efficiency of the
military are somewhat diminished. But I'd say that there is far more
They try and their efforts are too often, less than satisfying. In this
case, it is not at all clear to me that they are being inefficient.
MIA1: room for outrage in wasting so much taxpayer money in utterly unjust
wars in the first place. That said, we can even start a new thread
Maybe you did not know it, but you were talking about a target, used on a
test range, to confirm that they taxpayer is getting the actual missile
defense systems that it believes it is buying. I don't have a problem with
spending money efficiently on test ranges to make sure that our defenders
have the tools that the taxpayers are paying for.
MIA1: about it if you like, so that the plight of the Baha'is in Iran
remains clearly distinguished from issues to do with Baha'i
involvement in the US military!
Oh yeah, and I assume by 'less onerous' defense, you mean you're not
having to stand face to face with the people you're trying to kill?
You can just do it more accurately and from farther away?
The Hawkeye described below is a flying radar with IFF and unarmed.
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/e-2.htm
My role was to find ways to modernize the computing plant more affordably so
that needed upgrades, like automating the process for loading hundreds of
flight plans for other aircraft it might track and control, could happen. I
don't kill people; I support the folks who are defending this nation and
currently doing so with antiquated electronics.
http://www.dcmilitary.com/dcmilitary_archives/stories/110905/38174-1.shtml
MIA1: Oh, bless you Pat. I'm going to frame this response and draw little
stars around it! I guess it's not ok for Bahai's to carry weapons, but
it is ok to help make them and sail about on them (ie as active duty
navy Baha'is such as those in your community- AB "in my community
there have been active duty Navy Baha'is as well as civilian
I worked on an unarmed surveillance aircraft and I knew of two Baha'is
living in the neighborhood who used to do magnetic surveys in their P-3
survey squadron.
MIA1: employees and contractors,"). What about the World Police that will
administer the Baha'i New World order?
What about the oppression described in the Times?
- All Bad
maybe...@gmail.com
>
>
>
> > I know for a fact that avionics and surveillance systems are over priced.
> > There are new aircraft tail numbers, not new models, with computers and
> > LANs
> > from the 1990s; they cost 5 time more than contemporary computers and have
> > one tenth the power. The people trying to defend this nation and the
> > people
> > footing the bill are not getting a fair shake, and if some Baha'is can
> > help
> > provide a more affordable, less onerous defense, that is laudable, and it
> > has _nothing_ to do with the plight of Baha'is in Iran.
>
> MIA1: Dealing with tools of oppression, Pat. Tools of oppression. As an
>
> What tools of oppression are you referring to?
We'll probably disagree on this one, but I'd begin (and I emphasize
the word 'begin') by putting the unarmed surveillance aircraft
squarely in that category. Great way to win 'hearts and mind' on the
ground.
AB: " I worked on an unarmed surveillance aircraft"
I feel like I am repeating
> myself! I can only wonder if you read what you post, or if you did, perhaps
> you don't bother to translate the jargon? If it is the latter, I'll break
> it down for you. White Sands is a test range for missiles and missile
> defense. Missile defense tests often use target missiles. Kratos has a
> target missile, the Oriole, and they support the test range, perhaps with
> technical assistance for tests and test shots and analysis. The Oriole is a
> low cost alternative target missile, per this link:http://www.globalsecurity.org/space/library/news/2007/space-070301-at...
Oh, I read them, I think we just translate the 'jargon' (technical and
otherwise- know what I mean?) and its various consequences VERY
differently. You see, whatever they're doing they're still a missile
defense contractor, providing means to development more effective
weapons at a lower price. That's what doesn't sit well with me, and I
imagine probably shouldn't sit well with any Baha'i either. But it
obviously does for some.
>
> MIA1: ACTUAL lover of peace, my concerns about the efficiency of the
> military are somewhat diminished. But I'd say that there is far more
>
> They try and their efforts are too often, less than satisfying.
> case, it is not at all clear to me that they are being inefficient.
>
> MIA1: room for outrage in wasting so much taxpayer money in utterly unjust
> wars in the first place. That said, we can even start a new thread
>
> Maybe you did not know it, but you were talking about a target, used on a
> test range, to confirm that they taxpayer is getting the actual missile
> defense systems that it believes it is buying. I don't have a problem with
> spending money efficiently on test ranges to make sure that our defenders
> have the tools that the taxpayers are paying for.
>
> MIA1: about it if you like, so that the plight of the Baha'is in Iran
> remains clearly distinguished from issues to do with Baha'i
> involvement in the US military!
> Oh yeah, and I assume by 'less onerous' defense, you mean you're not
> having to stand face to face with the people you're trying to kill?
> You can just do it more accurately and from farther away?
>
> The Hawkeye described below is a flying radar with IFF and unarmed.http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/e-2.htm
> My role was to find ways to modernize the computing plant more affordably so
> that needed upgrades, like automating the process for loading hundreds of
> flight plans for other aircraft it might track and control, could happen. I
> don't kill people; I support the folks who are defending this nation and
> currently doing so with antiquated electronics.
>
> http://www.dcmilitary.com/dcmilitary_archives/stories/110905/38174-1....
> - All Bad
As I tried to make perfectly clear when I said this:
>I'm sure there are many
> well intentioned Baha'is, who are good people, and who may well
> believe the lies of the upper echelons of their organization (and I will add, may well have suffered human rights abuses for various reasons- including persecution WITHIN THEIR OWN FAITH ) but are also
> essentially caught up in a monstrous web of power and influence which
> they probably don't really understand themselves (this goes especially
> for kids who are discriminated against).
This has never been about the well intentioned people within the
Baha'i community who (however naively) believe in certain dictates of
the organization, may well have experienced certain human rights
abuses (amongst the huge number of people in the world that have and
do) and believe themselves to be acting out of the GENUINE spirit of
peace, tolerance compassion etc. For them I hold exactly the same
significant amount of sympathy and compassion as I do for anyone else.