Mai Pederson: The facts revisted
Freethought110
Baghdad. We know this because the US Defence Department actually
reveal who works for them.
Mai Pederson (Al-Sadat) is a Baha'i working for the Defence Department
in Baghdad. We know this courtesy of the Hutton enquiry.
Mai Pederson (Al-Sadat) was a spiritual mentor to Dr David Kelly. She
introduced Dr Kelly to the baha'i faith. We know this courtesy of the
Hutton enquiry.
In addition to their official duties both Mai Pederson (Al-Sadat) and
Dr Kelly had other work in Baghdad. Pederson (Al-Sadat) was clearly an
undercover agent posing as a translator, as has now been revealed.
Pederson (Al-Sadat) had conducted similar spying assignments for the
Defence Department in the past in Egypt and it turns out Iran. We know
this courtesy of the Hutton enquiry, US Defence Department and the
Times of London.
Conspicuously absent in all of this, is a mere statement from the
"Supremely wholly Body" of pseudo-Infallibles resident in the cargo of
Noah's ARC in Haifa. There is not even a whisper coming from the
External Affairs department regarding Pederson. The "beloved"
Continental Board of Counselors and Auxiliary Board Members for
Protection are tight lipped. Perhaps they are too busy fine tuning the
minor plan of God. Or perhaps the major plan of God has well and truly
screwed up their minor plan? Who knows?
Why couldn't the infallible ones see this one coming? After all they
are in reception with their high frequency radars of regular
confirmations emanating from the Concourse on High. May be they put
too much trust in reputable espionage agencies and not enough in a god
or concourse. Lord Hutton has now blown their cover and frankly,
silence is their best chance of survival at present. They are pinning
their hopes at a particular Law firm hired for Mai Pederson
(Al-Sadat). Funny how major/minor plans become unstuck in material
issues.
Rank and file baha'is - not to mention the human rights organizations
who have gone a limb for the baha'is for years - have the right to
know:
a) Whether any of the information obtained by Mai Pederson (Al-Sadat)
was forwarded to the baha'i World Centre (WC)?
b) Whether the uhj or any of its agencies are paying Mai Pederson's
legal
bills?
c) Why uhj does not condemn baha'i involvement with espionage in
general?
d) Why Mai Pederson is not sanctioned because of her PROVEN
involvement
in espionage?
e) What happens to Mai Pederson's Baha'i status if she refuses to
attend the Hutton Enquiry?
uhj's attitude to Mai Pederson and the NITV crew resembles their
reaction
to the involvment of prominent Baha'is Dr Ayadi, Sabet and Hojabr
Yazdani in
the Shah's politics before the revolution in Iran. The "Supreme Body"
is happy to take their money, donations, carpets, contacts and
publicity. Standing on
matters of principle, however serious, is not regarded important, ergo
the fact that Baha'is are prohibited from belonging to human rights
organizations such as AI.
Come on Dr Maneck, get them to issue a response now! After all they
are supposed to be infallibe and have a crystal ball looking to both
this world and the next, correct? Answer now or risk being asked the
same questions by the world press. Come to think of it, what issue can
more seriously damage the reputation of this obnoxious cult than this?
Tis, the season to be jolly ..
Paul Hammond
> Mai Pederson (Al-Sadat) has been working for the Defence Department in
> Baghdad. We know this because the US Defence Department actually
> reveal who works for them.
>
> Mai Pederson (Al-Sadat) is a Baha'i working for the Defence Department
> in Baghdad. We know this courtesy of the Hutton enquiry.
>
> Mai Pederson (Al-Sadat) was a spiritual mentor to Dr David Kelly. She
> introduced Dr Kelly to the baha'i faith. We know this courtesy of the
> Hutton enquiry.
>
> In addition to their official duties both Mai Pederson (Al-Sadat) and
> Dr Kelly had other work in Baghdad. Pederson (Al-Sadat) was clearly an
> undercover agent posing as a translator, as has now been revealed.
You'll have to fill in a few steps in this "clearly".
As when I was a mathematician, "clearly" usually means
"I have no idea how to prove this".
Nothing has been revealed about whether Pederson was
a spy.
How about we wait for her to actually make a statement?
I know speculating in the absense of evidence is your
forte - but the Hutton Inquiry has now reconvened.
Have a little patience, Nima-jan.
>
> b) Whether the uhj or any of its agencies are paying Mai Pederson's
> legal
> bills?
>
Why don't you ask them when they pay YOUR bills?
>
> e) What happens to Mai Pederson's Baha'i status if she refuses to
> attend the Hutton Enquiry?
>
I can answer this one for myself: Nothing.
Why should Mai Pederson attending, or not attending the
inquiry make any difference to her Baha'i status?
The Hutton Inquiry is not a Baha'i Inquiry.
It is up to Hutton whether he asks her to attend or not.
Even this much is not definite yet.
Paul
***** Bahai Faith *****
news:83b59396.03091...@posting.google.com...
> Mai Pederson (Al-Sadat) has been working for the Defence Department in
> Baghdad. We know this because the US Defence Department actually
> reveal who works for them.
The press has widely confirmed it....
> Mai Pederson (Al-Sadat) is a Baha'i working for the Defence Department
> in Baghdad. We know this courtesy of the Hutton enquiry.
The press has widely confirmed it....
> Mai Pederson (Al-Sadat) was a spiritual mentor to Dr David Kelly. She
> introduced Dr Kelly to the baha'i faith. We know this courtesy of the
> Hutton enquiry.
The press has widely confirmed it....
But they haven't confirmed her Arabic Kuwaiti name Al-Sadat,
that I know of. Why do you believe that's her maiden name?
Mai Pederson (Al-Sadat) Arab Kuwaiti American Baha'i
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/KellyMai.htm
EVIDENCE grows... Dr. David Kelly & the Baha'i Faith
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Kelly.htm
Frederick Glaysher
The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/
Cal E. Rollins
Do you know who Pederson's lawyer is? I read somewhere that their name
was Said or Zaid but I can't find the reference. A lawyer in
Washington, D.C. Do you think they're a Baha'i lawyer? The NSA used to
use a legal group called One World, Inc. years ago. Is that still in
operation? --Cal
Freethought110
> You'll have to fill in a few steps in this "clearly".
>
> As when I was a mathematician, "clearly" usually means
> "I have no idea how to prove this".
Clearly in this case means confirmed by the press and the US Defense
Department.
> Nothing has been revealed about whether Pederson was
> a spy.
Yes it has.
> How about we wait for her to actually make a statement?
She won't be making any.
> I know speculating in the absense of evidence is your
> forte -
As raising hubris and defending the uhj is your forte, AO mole.
>but the Hutton Inquiry has now reconvened.
> Have a little patience, Nima-jan.
Oh, the time for having patience is over. Your masters in Haifa have
stepped in it this time BIG and I will be capitalizing on this their
enth blunder.
> Why don't you ask them when they pay YOUR bills?
Why, because they pay YOUR bills, AO mole?
> I can answer this one for myself: Nothing.
>Why should Mai Pederson attending, or not attending the
> inquiry make any difference to her Baha'i status?
Because she has participated in espionage, the highest form of
partisan political involvement, AO mole.
Freethought110
> "Freethought110" <freetho...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:83b59396.03091...@posting.google.com...
> > Mai Pederson (Al-Sadat) has been working for the Defence Department in
> > Baghdad. We know this because the US Defence Department actually
> > reveal who works for them.
>
> The press has widely confirmed it....
>
> > Mai Pederson (Al-Sadat) is a Baha'i working for the Defence Department
> > in Baghdad. We know this courtesy of the Hutton enquiry.
>
> The press has widely confirmed it....
>
> > Mai Pederson (Al-Sadat) was a spiritual mentor to Dr David Kelly. She
> > introduced Dr Kelly to the baha'i faith. We know this courtesy of the
> > Hutton enquiry.
>
> The press has widely confirmed it....
>
> But they haven't confirmed her Arabic Kuwaiti name Al-Sadat,
> that I know of. Why do you believe that's her maiden name?
It's in two of the initial articles Errol posted. Go take another look.
errol9
at freetho...@yahoo.com wrote on 16/9/03 3:10 am:
> "***** Bahai Faith *****" <BI*P*G...@LIBERTY.COM> wrote in message
> news:<bk50rt$pc4fs$1...@ID-75545.news.uni-berlin.de>...
>> "Freethought110" <freetho...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:83b59396.03091...@posting.google.com...
>>> Mai Pederson (Al-Sadat) has been working for the Defence Department in
>>> Baghdad. We know this because the US Defence Department actually
>>> reveal who works for them.
>>
>> The press has widely confirmed it....
>>
>>> Mai Pederson (Al-Sadat) is a Baha'i working for the Defence Department
>>> in Baghdad. We know this courtesy of the Hutton enquiry.
>>
>> The press has widely confirmed it....
>>
>>> Mai Pederson (Al-Sadat) was a spiritual mentor to Dr David Kelly. She
>>> introduced Dr Kelly to the baha'i faith. We know this courtesy of the
>>> Hutton enquiry.
>>
>> The press has widely confirmed it....
>>
>> But they haven't confirmed her Arabic Kuwaiti name Al-Sadat,
>> that I know of. Why do you believe that's her maiden name?
>
> It's in two of the initial articles Errol posted. Go take another look.
""Born Mai al-Sadat in the Gulf Kingdom of Kuwait,""
Half way down The Mail On Sunday article 7th September 2003. I will post it
again all this time instead of four sections.............Errol
errol9
This article from "The Mail on Sunday" (TMOS) 7th September 2003 was not on the internet as it was published for some unknown reason for British Readers eyes only. I t could be the Journalist ( an American) did not want the American public to see it because the Bahai woman in question Sgt Mai Pederson (a Bahai) was a spy working for the CIA hiding under the cloak of a USAF sergeant's military uniform. Saddam Hussain threw all the UN inspectors out of Iraq in 1998 when he found out UN inspectors like Dr David Kelly was working alongside CIA spies like
Sgt Mai Pederson who was: Born Mai al-Sadat in the Gulf Kingdom of Kuwait,
It is a well known fact Bahai are very much involved in the UN, with the blessing of their Universal House in Haifa Israel. So the big question is did this Universal House have any involvement in bringing together both UN inspector Dr Kelly and CIA spook Sgt Mai Pederson in Iraq back in 1998, and no one would ever have been any the wiser had Dr Kelly not committed suicide recently. This leaves a final question, is this only a scratch of the surface of what goes on behind the secret world within the bahai adminstration. How many more Baha'is are involved world wide in the shady undercover world of Spooks spies?...........Errol
"The Mail on Sunday" (TMOS) 7th September 2003
From Sharon Churcher ( In Monterey, California)
PHOTHGRAPH OF MAI PEDERSON ON FRONT PAGE written
underneath: QUIZZED: US spy Mai Pederson was close to Kelly.
Article heading:
DOES THIS WOMAN HOLD KEY TO DEATH OF KELLY.
This is the first picture of Seregant Mai Pederson, a twice
married American Spy who could hold vital clues to the death of
Dr David Kelly. Ms Pederson, 43, struck up a close friendship
with the Ministry of defense scientist when they were both
serving with a UN weapons inspection team in Iraq, and has
been questioned by officials investigating his death. She is a
veteran of American military intelligence and also a devotee of
the exotic Baha'ireligious sect. She converted Dr Kelly to the
Faith in 1999.
Yesterday it was revealed that Sgt Pederson may now be called
to give evidence at the Hutton inquiry into the death of 59 year old
Dr Kelly.
Page 2) The Mail On Sunday can disclose that she has already
been interviewed by British Investigators. The developments
have fuelled intense speculation in Whitehall. Observers said
Sgt Pederson testimony would open a new line of inquiry into the
tragedy and perhaps supply unique insights into Dr Kelly's frame
of mind and his links to international intelligence.
last night Sgt Pederson appeared to be in hiding, with US
officials refusing to to discuss the affair or say where she is. "
This is not a US investagation and it would be innappropiate for
us to discuss the inquiry" said a spoksman at the Maxwell
Gunter US Air Force base in Alabama, where Sgt Pederson is
stationed. " She is co-operating with the authorities. Asked
whether she had been questioned by the British authorities, the
spokeman replied "yes thats my understanding".
Sgt Pederson's ex husband James, told friends last week that
she was a 'spook' trained to cultivate anyone who might be able
to help her in her intelligence work. She broke the news of Dr
kellys death to fellow members of of the bahai sect telling them
not to believe what they would read about the affair in the press..
A Pentagon spokesman said last night " I can tell you
emphatically that we are not hiding her. We do not hide people"
(Page 6) Heading: REVEALED: HOW A MYSTERIOUS
AMERICAN SPY BEFRIENDED DR DAVID KELLY, CONVERTER
HIM TO AN EXOTIC EASTERN FAITH....AND COULD NOW BE
CALLED AS A WITNESS TO THE HUTTON INQUIRY.
MAI IS A BEAUTIFUL WOMAN. PART OF HER MILITARY
TRAINING WAS TO ZERO IN ON ANYONE WHO MIGHT BE ABLE
TO HELP HER INTELLIGENCE WORK.
She is a flirtatious divorcee, a spy for the American Air Force, and
a leading cheerleader for an exotic Eastern religious sect. And
now she may hold the key to the lonely, mysterious death of
David Kelly.
Petite mai Pederson, exclusively pictured today by TMOS
befriended Dr kelly while both were serving with the UN
weapons inspectors in Iraq in 1998. Before long, she converted
him to the Bahai Faith.
Ms Pederson was in hiding last night, and has been seldom
seen since Dr Kelly was found dead on July 18. Indeed, her
existance was unknown until last week, when, in a cryptic article
that mysteriously failed to appear in its main edition, the
Labour-supporting Times newspaper disclosed that she had
been the Government scientist's spirtual mentor. Hitherto,
altmost nothing had been known about the enigmatic Dr Kelly's
private life.
Yesterday The Times reported that the Hutton Inquiry into Dr
Kellys death was now considering whether to call Ms Pederson
as a witness, a development that could not be confirmed by
inquiry officials.
However, TMOS has established that Pederson has been
questioned by British authorities. The developments sparked
intense speculation in Whitehall last night. A senior source told
the TMOS " This would open up a whole new line of Inquiry",
which is possibly just what the government wants, the stakes
are high indeed".
So what llight could Mai Pederson shed on the tragedy of Dr
Kelly, who was found dead after being named as a source for a
BBC report that the government had sexed up the case fror war
on Iraq? TMOS has found no no evidence to support the Times
repeated implication that the self-effacing Government scientist
did indeed fall under Pederson's spell - and that she could
supply revealing insights into his state of mind.
In addition, it is clear that Pederson would have first hand
knowledge immerssion in the murky world of international
intelligence. It appears that Dr Kelly first met Ms Pederson in
Iraq in December 1998. He was part of the UN's weapons
inspection team; she was an Arabic inspection USAF sergeant
who had graduated from spy school "SHE HAD BEEN WHISKED
BY THE MILITARY" and
had held various posts in military intelligence.
She was also an energetic advocate of the bahai Faith 0 oddly,
perhaps because of its avowed opposition to militarism. They
became friends, not long afterwards Dr kelly began to appear at
bahai meetings in Monterey, California. He was sometimes
accompanied by Pederson, who was now based at a nerby
military spy school. She was introduced as his spirtual mentor,
to the puzzlement of some members of the sect. " There are
Bahai's all over the world, including England, He didnt have to
come all this way", one official said last week. Kristen Calwell
who runs a bookstore, added " One of the tenets of the Faith is
that you investigate it on your own".
An intelligent expert said last night that the American military had
tried - and often failed - to use weapons inspectors as
informants. Did Pederson target Dr Kelly for this reason?
The American Airforce was blocking inquiries on the subject last
night and is believed to have Pederson under its protection. "The
CIA was desperate to get information out of the inspectors" the
expert told TMOS "It had a policy of putting spooks alongside
some of the more uncooperative inspectors. It is inconceivable
that she was one these people. Its an amazing coincidance that
she was in the military"
At the time, it does not appear that Dr kelly smelled any rats. In
the autumn of 1999, after the Government scientist travelled to
monterey for several tutorials about the Faith he became a
formal convert. He declared that he believed Baha'u'llah, the
group's 19thcentury founder was sent to earth by God as "The
Promised one" -a successor to Jesus and other prophets and
signed a membership card promising to abide by Baha'i laws ',
which prohibit alcohol, drugs, adultery and party politics while
advocating "non military resolution of conflicts' and the
supremacy of the United Nations.
Bahai officials claim Kelly - an agnostic when they first met him
was impressed by the rationality of their belief's. Mai and Dr Kelly
came to our house several times', recalls Marilyn Vonberg, the
79 year old Monterey resident who was secretary of the
assembly at the time. 'She taught him the Faith. He was really
studying'. I was thrilled when he became a Bahai because he
was such an exceptional man. I gave him a book and he took it
back to England with him and bought another one there and sent
it to us. He said the book helped lead him to God' She adds that
Dr Kelly was impressed by Sgt Pederson's demeanour, her
calmness'
Various men came under the spell of the mysterious sergeant.
(page 6 & 7)
PHOTOGRAPH OF SGT MAI PEDERSON HOME IN MONGOMERY ALABAMA,
IS BEING SHIELDED FROM THE MEDIA BY THE USAF
Her first husband Cameron Dr Hart, a former US Special Forces
combat controller, said in an exclusive interview from his home
in Indianapolis: "Mai is a charmer. Her eyes are so beautiful that
when she looks at a man, she instantly can wrap him around her
little finger"
Her second husband, Us Airforce Sergeant Jim Pederson,
would concur. He has told friends: mai is a beautiful woman,
absolutely stuning. She was very sexy, seductive even, and was
always flirting with men. I am not suprised that she became a
friend of David Kelly. "Part of her military training was to cultivate
anyone who might be able to help her in her intelligence work
"It may well have been why she zeroed in on Dr kelly. She
undoubtedly viewed him as a potential intelligence source. The
two things that obsessed her were the military and the Bahai
faith"
Born Mai al-Sadat in the Gulf Kingdom of Kuwait, Pederson's
fluency in Arabic, German and French impressed her Pentagon
bosses. " She was given a top secret clearance, and one of her
first jobs was translating military documents', says a US
Defence Department insider. " Subsequently, she became a
translator and "tour guide" escorting other undercover operatives
on assignments in the Middle east'.
Jim Pederson told friends: She has always been a spook of one
kind of or another'. She is invaluable in this job because she
dosent look as though she's in intelligence. She goes in to
interrogate someone and she is tiny and beautiful, and she flirts
with them, and just sits down and chats. Before they know it
they've told her all sorts of stuff.
'The marriage never stood much of a chance from the start. Mai
was always going away for months at a time. She was proficent
with a gun and in basic unarmed combat and worked
undercover for long periods called TDA for Temporary Duty
Attachments - in Egypt and I believe Iran. She was a very
complex character'. But he stressed: She tok marriage very
seriously and was not at all promiscuous - just the opposite'.
Her first husband believes his exwife's adherance to the bahai
Faith was an act of rebellion against her strict Muslim father. In
199, after the couple seperated Mai became a language
instructor at the Defense Language Institute, a spy school the
USAF runs in Monterey. In her testimony to the Hutton Irguiry last
week, Dr kelly's widow Janice said she knew only a little about
her husbands conversion to Baha'i. She added however, that Mai
pederson had been quite influential in her husbands spirtual
quest and had become a family friend.
On the morning that Janice Kelly gave evidence, later editions of
the Times newspaper disclosed the existance of Mai Pederson
and of her importance in the life of Dr Kelly. The newspaper is an
unapologetic supporter of New Labour and along with the
Guardian and Financial Times, was responsible for naming Dr
kelly in the first instance. It gave no clue to the provenance of
its story which was printed only in a few thousand copies and not
noticed by the rest of the media.
During the week the newspaper ran another item - this time
about Dr Kelly and the bahai Faith - and then yesterday claimed
that Mai Pederson could be called as a witness when the Hutton
inquiry reconvenes later in the month. The Times quoted a
spokesman for the inquiry as saying : It is possible that she may
be called to give evidence."
Yesterday the inquiry told TMOS that her summons was indeed
possible, but by no means certain, However, yesterdays
admission to The mail on Sunday that Master Sgt Pederson had
been interviewed by the British investigating authouities -
presumably reporting to the m,inistry of Defense - confirmed that
Dr Kelly's superiors were aware of his friendship with the
engaging American spy.
Had the Ministry of Defense played any part in its emergence into
the press? Perhaps the one woman who knows the truth is Mai
Pederson. She did not respond to repeated requests by TMOS
for comment. Intriguingly, however, she was one of the very first
people to learn of Dr Kelly's body had been found
.
"She phoned us and said he had been found" says the Bahai
leader Marilyn VonBerg. Pederson then said that her friends
"shouldn't believe what we would be reading in the newspapers"
What could that possibly mean? " Its very mysterious to us"
admits Mrs VonBerg's husband, John. Mrs Vonbwerg was
unable to confirm the exact date of the call from Pederson
informing her and her husband of Dr Kelly's death. My husband
took the call" she said.
Since that call, Mai Pederson appears to have gone to ground.
Her Baha'i friends will not say where she is , although they have
been prepared to pass on telephone requests for interview,
which have all been declined. O)ne neighbour at Pederson's
most recent address in Mongomery, described her as a very
pleasant person who had introduced herself when she moved in
about a month ago. Prior to her move, which is believed to have
taken place during the Dossier row but before Dr Kelly was
named, Pederson appears to have been working at the
Pentagon's internal staff directory although her extension is not
working.
Her Alabama neighbour said: "She didn't say where she worked
and we are not the kind of people to ask. Other neighbours said
that they had breifly met Pederson but had not seen her for the
past week. Her neat, suburban ranch style bungalow in the leafy
suburb of east Montgomery, a 20 minute drive from Maxwell Air
Base where she works, stands empty.
The base, in one of the country's poorer regions, is one of the
biggest employer in the area and brings about $800 million into
the economy of the capatial of the state. At the vast complex early
last week, a MOS journalist asking to see Pederson was told : "
We have no one here of that name that I can find.
Subsequent inquires were referred to the base public affairs
officials. For several days, base Press Officers repeatedly
refused to answer questions related to Pederson, saying only
that all such inquiries should be directed to the British
Government. Only yesterday did an official confirm that Sgt
Pederson worked at the base and had been questioned over her
links to Kelly.
Paul Hammond
>
> > You'll have to fill in a few steps in this "clearly".
> >
> > As when I was a mathematician, "clearly" usually means
> > "I have no idea how to prove this".
>
> Clearly in this case means confirmed by the press and the US Defense
> Department.
>
" clearly an
> undercover agent posing as a translator, as has now been revealed."
Post that confirmation. I don't believe you.
> > Nothing has been revealed about whether Pederson was
> > a spy.
>
> Yes it has.
>
> > How about we wait for her to actually make a statement?
>
> She won't be making any.
>
How do you know?
> > I know speculating in the absense of evidence is your
> > forte -
>
> As raising hubris and defending the uhj is your forte, AO mole.
>
I notice there is no denial of the Hazini Technique.
> >but the Hutton Inquiry has now reconvened.
> > Have a little patience, Nima-jan.
>
> Oh, the time for having patience is over. Your masters in Haifa have
> stepped in it this time BIG and I will be capitalizing on this their
> enth blunder.
>
So, you can't wait for a week? Your best mate Error is convinced
that Mai is going to talk to Hutton.
>
> > Why don't you ask them when they pay YOUR bills?
>
> Why, because they pay YOUR bills, AO mole?
>
They don't pay my bills. Maybe you'd better ask them
next time they pay you?
> > I can answer this one for myself: Nothing.
> >Why should Mai Pederson attending, or not attending the
> > inquiry make any difference to her Baha'i status?
>
> Because she has participated in espionage, the highest form of
> partisan political involvement, AO mole.
But, why should her attendence or non-attendence at a
British government inquiry have any bearing on her
Baha'i rights?
Surely, only a meeting with the Baha'is could have such
bearing?
If the Baha'i authorities think that Mai Pederson has
done anything wrong, that is a matter for the Baha'i
authorities.
As yet, whether or not she appears depends on whether
Lord Hutton even calls her, let alone whether she can
afford the time or cost of appearing at an inquiry
in London.
Most people believe in innocence until proven guilty
- and of course the fact that you are proclaiming
her guilt increases the chances that she is actually
innocent.
Paul
errol9
paha...@onetel.net.uk wrote on 16/9/03 10:03 am:
> If the Baha'i authorities think that Mai Pederson has
> done anything wrong, that is a matter for the Baha'i
> authorities.
Spoken like a well established member of the Bahai AO...Errol
errol9
paha...@onetel.net.uk wrote on 16/9/03 10:03 am:
> freetho...@yahoo.com (Freethought110) wrote in message
Sgt Mai Pederson will not attand the Hutton Inquiry. The Bush Government and
the CIA do not want the Americans involved in this as It may open up another
can of worms regarding both British and US intelligent services. So she will
either be ordered by the UHJ, the Pentagon and the CIA not to attend.
However this could cause more interest, amongst the world media towards what
Sgt Pederson gets up to in bahaism than had she attended.
If she does not attend does not mean the end in media interest in her or
Bahaism. On the contrary it could mean the opposite especially if Dr Kelly
falls from grace because of the Watts tape recording of his conversation
over the dossier and CX intelligence matters.
What would happen now if another tape turned up from the talk Kelly give to
30 Bahais 5 October 2002? Barney Leith and the honesty and integrity of the
whole bahai faith would be made a laughing stock if Barny was proved to be
telling a load of untruths..............Errol
Susan Maneck
>If the Baha'i authorities think that Mai Pederson has
>done anything wrong, that is a matter for the Baha'i
>authorities.
Dear Paul,
Nima's evidence that Mai Pederson is a spy appears based on the fact she worked
for the Department of Defense. What soldier doesn't?
warmest, Susan
http://bahaistudies.net/susanmaneck/
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
http://list.jccc.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=bahai-st
errol9
sma...@aol.com wrote on 16/9/03 4:04 pm:
>
>> If the Baha'i authorities think that Mai Pederson has
>> done anything wrong, that is a matter for the Baha'i
>> authorities.
>
> Dear Paul,
>
> Nima's evidence that Mai Pederson is a spy appears based on the fact she
> worked
> for the Department of Defense. What soldier doesn't?
>
> warmest, Susan
So both Mai Pederson's former husbands and US journalist Sharon Churcher in
the The Mail On Sunday 7th September 2003 are all liars according to
Maneck? Nima evidence is here in this newspaper if you care to read it.
Errol
Subject: DOES THIS WOMAN HOLD KEY TO DEATH OF KELLY.
Paul Hammond
Post my membership number, or shut the fuck up, worm.
Cal E. Rollins
Sure sounds like she's a spy to me. Of course, Susan will go along with
the spin that she's a Baha'i pioneer and rijal according to hikmat.
That's okay, too, but I can't imagine any non-Baha'is except Paul and
Dermod buying that. Or did Dermod say he did think she was a spy?
--Cal
Cal E. Rollins
Whether or not Baha'i authorities think Pederson has done something
wrong is neither here nor there. If the governments think she or the
Faith have is the issue of concern. We're not in a position to throw
our weight around, although that's not certain as things are unfolding.
Right? Very exciting our potential power and prestige on the
international scene. Maybe we're the movers and shakers Nima claims we
are? --Cal
Cal E. Rollins
This is fascinating stuff in our lifetimes. Unreal! Do you have the
picture of Pederson posted? I didn't find it. --Cal
Cal E. Rollins
Obviously, you know nothing about the Department of Defense and who it
hires--especially if they have fluency in target languages. Talk to the
Mormons. --Cal
errol9
sma...@aol.com wrote on 16/9/03 4:04 pm:
>
I have been thinking some more about Mata Hari Mai Pederson and David Kelly:
1. Mai Pederson may have been at the Defense Language Institute at the
same time that 9-11 hijacker Saeed Alghamdi allegedly attended there (she
was there from April 1997 to February 2001, presumably except for the time
she was in Iraq). Since she was an Arabic translator, and the obvious reason
for Saeed Alghamdi to be there was to learn Arabic translation (or, to be
really cynical, perhaps he was there to learn how to speak Arabic!), I
wonder if he was in her class. It's a small world.
2. Isn't it odd that Mai Pederson, American Air Force Master Sergeant,
was working in Iraq as a translator for Kelly? Do you think Saddam knew
about this? Do you think she was acting as some sort of spy? She was
translating for Kelly in 1998. Saddam stopped cooperating with the
inspectors in 1998 because he claimed they were American spies. The
inspectors were withdrawn (the disgusting American press later consistently
rewrote the withdrawal into a claim that Saddam kicked them out). The
Americans at first denied that they had spies, but eventually had to concede
that they had planted spies amongst the inspectors. Was Mai Pederson one of
these spies? The Defence Language Institute is often thought to be a school
for spies.
3. Pederson's name appears on the internet in an article dated May 2001.
She was working for the air force as chief of enlisted skills management,
apparently in charge of enlistment procedures.
How often do middle-aged hard-nosed scientists decide to convert to a new
religion, particularly a somewhat flaky 'new-age-ish' one like Baha'i? Did
he really have to go all the way to California to convert? The French have
an expression: Cherchez la femme. Perhaps they should have a new expression:
Cherchez le Pentagon.
http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:tYxVewqOqSkJ:xymphora.blogspot.com/+CIA
+spy+sgt+mai+pederson&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
>
>
MOST@btinternet.com Dermod Ryder
"Cal E. Rollins" <crol...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:29249-3F6...@storefull-2332.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Hutton does not have her slated to give evidence to his Inquiry at least
according to the website which I looked at earlier. The Bahais made a
submission to him but it's not included among the documents published. So
unless we have missed something I don't honestly think that the BF will
figure large in his final report. It can safely lapse back into the
obscurity whence it came.
As for the Sarge - I'm still waiting for the answer to my question as to how
a BIGS can be in the armed services at all, never mind military
intelligence?
Does anybody know what Major Marangella was doing in the US Army in France
in the fifties?
Can somebody explain to me why so many BIGS are emerging from the obscurity
of military careers?
>
errol9
Rollins at crol...@webtv.net wrote on 16/9/03 6:46 pm:
> Errol9,
>
> This is fascinating stuff in our lifetimes. Unreal! Do you have the
> picture of Pederson posted? I didn't find it. --Cal
Cal, that article was not on the internet. But send me a private post with
( a mail box address) and I will photocopy the ~Photographs for and article
for you. Her picture is on the front page, her home in Mongomery Alabama and
other mugshots with her and her first husband are in two of the inside
pages. I know the bahais here were very embarrassed about that article I
dont know how they would receive it in the US...........Errol
Cal E. Rollins
I'd also like to know since when Baha'is could go into the military.
When I was a college freshman I had to drop out of ROTC because I'd
declared and we were forbidden to be in the military except in
non-combatant service. So it pisses me off again that I missed out on
going into the military as an officer, the Peace Corps, and into
Intelligence because I couldn't (I thought) as a Baha'i. It just makes
me believe people had better do what they want with their lives and not
worry about the changes and chances we experience in the Faith. Right?
--Cal
Freethought110
> " clearly an
> > undercover agent posing as a translator, as has now been revealed."
>
> Post that confirmation. I don't believe you.
Then what the fuck was she doing in Iraq with the UN inspectors, while
she is also working for the Pentagon, dumb idiot! Are you saying the
Times of London is lying??
> How do you know?
Because she does not have to make any statements. She is a US citizen,
an employee of the Defense Department and the UK government or its
inquiries or media have no jurisdiction over her. Plus she will not
say anything to a press that will compromise her position even more.
That's why, dumbass!
> I notice there is no denial of the Hazini Technique.
Once again, in true AO mole fashion, Hammond evades the question. The
Hazini technique doesn't need to be denied because it is exposing your
masters dirty laundary in full public view. But I see you don't deny
the AO technique of misdirection, obfuscation and sleight of hand
which you just engaged in, AO mole.
> So, you can't wait for a week? Your best mate Error is convinced
> that Mai is going to talk to Hutton.
She won't be because she doesn't have to. But, all the same, the cat
is out of the bag for your Zionist lackey masters inhabiting the cargo
of Noah's ARC in Haifa.
> They don't pay my bills.
Sure they do. What else explains your presence here.
>Maybe you'd better ask them
> next time they pay you?
They don't. But if they would make a sizeable donation of, say, U$500
million dollars to a designated bank account in Switzerland I might
consider backing off on them and not expose their double dealings and
political involvement on these boards.
> But, why should her attendence or non-attendence at a
> British government inquiry have any bearing on her
> Baha'i rights?
Because she is a spy and baha'is are _ostensibly_ supposed to not
involve themselves in politics. We know that's bullshit. One is merely
pointing at the hypocrisy of the AO which sanctions an 83 year old man
like Abdulhamid Taheri for reading Persian poetry on a local cable
station, while the AO's hand picked lackeys get to wine and dine with
Reza Pahlavi and his supporters as wellas the shadowy figures of the
world of international espoionage.
> Most people believe in innocence until proven guilty
Neither Mai Pederson Al-Sadat nor her employers at the Pentagon have
denied her employment or her assigments in Iraq, Egypt and Iran. Guilt
is admitted to.
Freethought110
> >If the Baha'i authorities think that Mai Pederson has
> >done anything wrong, that is a matter for the Baha'i
> >authorities.
>
> Dear Paul,
>
> Nima's evidence that Mai Pederson is a spy appears based on the fact she worked
> for the Department of Defense.
With assignments in Iraq, Egypt and Iran. Her ex-husband has also
stated for the record that she is a spook. She obviously works for the
Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) which is currently the most powerful
intelligence agency of the US government and far more powerful now
than the CIA once was. DIA are the ones that sent people with UN
inspectors into Iraq, which Mai Pederson al-Sadat was involved with.
MOST@btinternet.com Dermod Ryder
So would I, Cal, but if Major Marangella is any precedent, then it goes
right back to the days that Shoghi was pontificating to the rest of you not
to get involved in that kind of thing. I've recently seen posts, in another
place, that talked of community numbers, near a major US Naval base, going
up and down, as ships deployed or returned from overseas.
Dost thou hear it? "Dost I hear what?" you ask.
Why 'tis the Sound of Silence from the A Onions about this matter!
Hypocrisy! Pass the sick bag!
>
Paul Hammond
So - post here the confirmation you assert exists.
This looks like a mathematical handwaving type of
"clearly" to me.
You are making too many assumptions, and I don't believe
your assumptions.
Paul
Paul Hammond
Governments don't have a law against spying.
Paul Hammond
> in article c977f97b.03091...@posting.google.com, Paul Hammond at
> paha...@onetel.net.uk wrote on 16/9/03 10:03 am:
>
> > freetho...@yahoo.com (Freethought110) wrote in message
> >
That sounds reasonable. I will await with interest how you
manage to blame this US governmental opinion on "Baha'i influence".
> However this could cause more interest, amongst the world media towards what
> Sgt Pederson gets up to in bahaism than had she attended.
>
People don't seem to be buying into the Mail on Sunday's "Mata Hari"
line. I'm pretty sure the idea that Kelly might have been having
sex with Mai isn't taking off. (And don't tell me you didn't
realise that implication was in the air with all the emphasis
on how "beautiful" Mai was, in the absense of any actual
statements from her)
> If she does not attend does not mean the end in media interest in her or
> Bahaism. On the contrary it could mean the opposite especially if Dr Kelly
> falls from grace because of the Watts tape recording of his conversation
> over the dossier and CX intelligence matters.
>
Sir Richard Dearlove clearly has his own agenda here. I don't
see any mounting media interest in the Baha'i Faith - which
may come as a disappointment to some Baha'is.
> What would happen now if another tape turned up from the talk Kelly give to
> 30 Bahais 5 October 2002? Barney Leith and the honesty and integrity of the
> whole bahai faith would be made a laughing stock if Barny was proved to be
> telling a load of untruths..............Errol
You know, *I* still don't think that Dr Kelly was doing anything
wrong by holding that meeting, and I don't understand why Barney
Leith was at such pains to suggest that Kelly didn't discuss
the dossier at that meeting.
IMHO, he would have been doing nothing wrong had he done
so, and as a person used to handling the press and the
public, I am confident he had the ability to talk in
general terms about his current work without divulging
any state secrets. That would be a skill he had developed
over the course of his duties with the press and public
which were part of his job description.
I note that you haven't called Dr Kelly a traitor for
a few weeks now. Does this mean that you have now
unequivocally withdrawn such accusations?
Paul
Paul Hammond
> in article 20030916120419...@mb-m12.aol.com, Susan Maneck at
> sma...@aol.com wrote on 16/9/03 4:04 pm:
>
> >
> >> If the Baha'i authorities think that Mai Pederson has
> >> done anything wrong, that is a matter for the Baha'i
> >> authorities.
> >
> > Dear Paul,
> >
> > Nima's evidence that Mai Pederson is a spy appears based on the fact she
> > worked
> > for the Department of Defense. What soldier doesn't?
> >
> > warmest, Susan
>
> So both Mai Pederson's former husbands and US journalist Sharon Churcher in
> the The Mail On Sunday 7th September 2003 are all liars according to
> Maneck? Nima evidence is here in this newspaper if you care to read it.
>
> Errol
>
>
There is no evidence in this story.
In fact, it seems like a piece of yellow journalism, more
worthy of the News of the World than the Mail on Sunday.
I mean, please, interviews with her ex-husbands where
they go on about how "stunning", "sexy" and "flirtatious"
she was?
Is there any evidence to suggest that she had sex with
Dr Kelly in order to recruit him as a spy/ recruit
him as a Baha'i?
Do you guys *really* think of the Baha'i Faith as
an "exotic sect"?
Come off it, Error!
Paul
Paul Hammond
>
> > " clearly an
> > > undercover agent posing as a translator, as has now been revealed."
> >
> > Post that confirmation. I don't believe you.
>
> Then what the fuck was she doing in Iraq with the UN inspectors, while
> she is also working for the Pentagon, dumb idiot! Are you saying the
> Times of London is lying??
>
That isn't what you said.
You need to confirm your statemetn that she was "clearly an undercover
agent posing as a translator".
If what you say is true, the only thing that has been officially
confirmed is her cover. For the rest, we only have your
suspicions and Saddam's.
I thought you said you had legal training?
> > How do you know?
>
> Because she does not have to make any statements. She is a US citizen,
> an employee of the Defense Department and the UK government or its
> inquiries or media have no jurisdiction over her. Plus she will not
> say anything to a press that will compromise her position even more.
> That's why, dumbass!
>
*I* know that she doesn't have to - I have explained this
fact several times to your disciple, Error - but up until
now, he has been asserting as fact that she *will* attend
Hutton.
I say that still depends - on several factors both within
and outside her control.
But that isn't what you said. You assert definite knowledge,
where you only have speculation.
> > I notice there is no denial of the Hazini Technique.
>
> Once again, in true AO mole fashion, Hammond evades the question.
No. I am pointing out that you are evading the question.
>
>
> > So, you can't wait for a week? Your best mate Error is convinced
> > that Mai is going to talk to Hutton.
>
> She won't be because she doesn't have to. But, all the same, the cat
> is out of the bag for your Zionist lackey masters inhabiting the cargo
> of Noah's ARC in Haifa.
>
So tell it to Error! I've been telling that since he first
started down the Mata Hari line...
> > They don't pay my bills.
>
> Sure they do. What else explains your presence here.
>
> >Maybe you'd better ask them
> > next time they pay you?
>
> They don't.
Plausible denial!
But if they would make a sizeable donation of, say, U$500
> million dollars to a designated bank account in Switzerland I might
> consider backing off on them and not expose their double dealings and
> political involvement on these boards.
>
I'm sure they are trembling in their boots at this!
>
> > But, why should her attendence or non-attendence at a
> > British government inquiry have any bearing on her
> > Baha'i rights?
>
> Because she is a spy and baha'is are _ostensibly_ supposed to not
> involve themselves in politics. We know that's bullshit. One is merely
> pointing at the hypocrisy of the AO which sanctions an 83 year old man
> like Abdulhamid Taheri for reading Persian poetry on a local cable
> station, while the AO's hand picked lackeys get to wine and dine with
> Reza Pahlavi and his supporters as wellas the shadowy figures of the
> world of international espoionage.
>
> > Most people believe in innocence until proven guilty
>
> Neither Mai Pederson Al-Sadat nor her employers at the Pentagon have
> denied her employment or her assigments in Iraq, Egypt and Iran. Guilt
> is admitted to.
If it is true that she was an undercover agent posing as a
tranlator, as you and Saddam allege, the only thing that has
been confirmed is her cover.
Now, can you post the confirmation of your speculation, or
can you not? Simple enough request, surely?
Paul
errol9
And neither does the Universal House of Justice, infact the BAO thrives on
spying mostly on its own members with Susan maneck as one of the overt BAO
spies and Paul Hammond as a covert (hikmat) BAO spook..........Errol
Susan Maneck
>> million dollars to a designated bank account in Switzerland I might
>> consider backing off on them and not expose their double dealings and
>> political involvement on these boards.
>I'm sure they are trembling in their boots at this!
You can be sure they are not emptying their pockets!
MOST@btinternet.com Dermod Ryder
"Paul Hammond" <paha...@onetel.net.uk> wrote in message
news:c977f97b.03091...@posting.google.com...
> freetho...@yahoo.com (Freethought110) wrote in message
news:<83b59396.03091...@posting.google.com>...
> > paha...@onetel.net.uk (Paul Hammond) wrote in message
> >
> > > " clearly an
> > > > undercover agent posing as a translator, as has now been revealed."
> > >
> > > Post that confirmation. I don't believe you.
> >
> > Then what the fuck was she doing in Iraq with the UN inspectors, while
> > she is also working for the Pentagon, dumb idiot! Are you saying the
> > Times of London is lying??
> >
>
> That isn't what you said.
>
> You need to confirm your statemetn that she was "clearly an undercover
> agent posing as a translator".
>
> If what you say is true, the only thing that has been officially
> confirmed is her cover. For the rest, we only have your
> suspicions and Saddam's.
In the dirty dark world of military intelligence, and I include the CIA,
DIA,MI5,MI6,KGB, Deuxieme Bureau and Mossad Aliyah Bet, everything is in
shadow and utterly deniable. There will be NO admissions either way on the
case of Mai Pederson and her possible involvement in intelligence gathering.
There are however a few quite simple points or questions that need to be put
and need to be answered.
1. What is a BIGS doing in a career job in the USAF when as an all
volunteer force, the category of Conscientious Objector is not available?
2. Of all the translators in the world why was a USAF sergeant assigned to
UNMOVIC, bearing in mind that as the US was the prime antagonist of Daddam ,
any US presence was bound to be vewed with suspicion?
3. Why is the Pentagon covering her and why is she not out in the open with
a PRO in tow answering questions? When Scott O'Grady was plucked out of the
Balkans after his F16 was shot down, he was in TV interviews, pictures, you
name it. Here is a totally innocent Pentagon based, non-combat related MOS
serviceperson, who has made no public statements and passed up the chance of
"teaching" and of clearing any suspicion that she was spooking Dr. Kelly?
Of course let's not forget that if she was spooking him, that would be
diplomatically embarrassing and something both the US and UK would like to
cover up.
<SNIP>
if they would make a sizeable donation of, say, U$500
> > million dollars to a designated bank account in Switzerland I might
> > consider backing off on them and not expose their double dealings and
> > political involvement on these boards.
> >
>
> I'm sure they are trembling in their boots at this!
Bloody ridiculous! He's not worth that! I thought I was stressing the
market a bit when I offered to settle for £20 million.
Cal E. Rollins
I agree with you. Generally espionage folk are either single or have
compliant, non-inquisitive significant others. When two husbands (are
they Baha'is? or liars? or both?) identify their ex-spouse as a "spook"
and specifically relate the term to spying for government, it shouldn't
be surprising that intelligent people would tend to believe the
husbands, especially if they were Baha'is because we all know we never
lie. I should think that if the husbands are lying they're in deep
doo-doo with the Pentagon and the Justice Department. I suspect they
already are in any case. In fact I'd bet on it, and we know we aren't
supposed to gamble. --Cal
Cal E. Rollins
One of the explanations for that military base thing was that Baha'is
could be in the military in a temporary non-combattant status if they
were in the military before they became Baha'is--like having more than
one wife before you declared so you didn't have to give any of them up,
unless there were some you wanted to get rid of.
An Afnan told me when I was a kid that one of the Shah's generals was a
Baha'i, but the Guardian made him resign the Faith while he was serving
as general. But later, another person told me he didn't resign and, not
only that, but there were lots of Baha'is in the Shah's court and
military. I never found out the true poop but did get pretty mad for
having gotten pressure in my community on the issue of going into
officer's training. --Cal
Susan Maneck
job at the Pentagon. http://www.af.mil/news/May2001/n20010518_0680.shtml
"05/18/01 - WASHINGTON -- Airmen will soon have a new way to re-enlist,
offering them more control over separations and retirements and possibly
bringing more money into the pockets of those eligible for bonuses.
<snip>
The program also has another major change from the current system in that
airmen are required to fulfill their entire re-enlistment contract, said Master
Sgt. Mai Pederson, chief of enlisted skills management.
"Under the current program, any unserved obligation from the previous
enlistment contract is absorbed within the new contract. Full enlistment will
require airmen to add any unserved obligation to their re-enlistment contract,"
she said. "This revised re-enlistment policy requires re-enlistees to fulfill
all unserved contractual periods along with their new re-enlistment contract."
<snip>
This program was developed to help improve the current retention situation,
Pederson said.
<snip>
"This (system) gives airmen more control over their careers by allowing them to
re-enlist in a combination of yearly and monthly increments," Pederson said.
"Under the Full Enlistment (Program), eligible airmen can combine their
re-enlistment years and months to match their retirement date in one
selection."
Obviously high level espionage!
Now this article was written in 2001 and I don't doubt that after 9-11 the
military would have utilized Pederson's language skills to translate
intelligence documents. It also makes sense that they might loan her out to
assist with weapon's inspections. But none of this amounts to political
espionage.
warmest, Susan
Cal E. Rollins
You seem to have lost the implication in your English papers that the
woman could have well been what is fondly termed in America, a "fag
hag." We're not so naive as you Brits, nor are we easily fooled by
relationships. We're creative here in this blessed Country and know
things are rarely as they seem. In my opinion, you've missed the point
entirely although you did respond to the implications being offered
without saying. We Americans love the cliche, "Where there's smoke
there's fire." Because it's always true. --Cal
Cal E. Rollins
You're obviously not a Baha'i, because any Baha'i who's lived knows
we're some of the most exotic people around. You've not read our
history or traveled throughout the Baha'i world or you wouldn't ask such
a question. I have to admit I haven't met any exciting, exotic UKers
but I suspect there may be some. You should get out more and stop being
so insular. I bet you never even saw the picture of Ruhiyyih Khanum
before she married the Guardian. Or even of the Guardian when he was
19. She was a knockout and he was a hunk. --Cal
Cal E. Rollins
True. There's no law against spying for your government, but other
governments will kill you for spying on them if they catch you before
you kill yourself. That's why people take cyanide, carry guns, and slit
their wrists. And we know all governments do it. The issue is do we
admit that Baha'is do it for their or other governments? If you've read
E.S. Stevens' book, _The Mountain of God_ (1911), one of the characters
becomes a Baha'i and does work for the Master. What is this work, the
obvious question is. --Cal
errol9
out of date............................Errol
She was on the staff of Air Force Training Squadron 311 at the language
school during that time, according to Army spokeswoman Lauren Solis.
Pederson's duties included serving as chief of the Air Force commander's
support staff and as supervisor of satellite personnel activities for the
squadron, Solis said.
In October 1998 the Presidio's news magazine, The Globe, reported that
Pederson was decorated with the Joint Service Achievement Medal.
She was assigned to the Pentagon after leaving DLI, where the Air Force
reported she was involved in Air Force re-enlistments as chief of enlisted
skills management. She now lives in Montgomery, Ala., and hasn't commented
publicly on the Kelly matter.
http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/montereyherald/news/local/6707707.htm
http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/montereyherald/news/local/6680570.htm
in article 20030917092529...@mb-m29.aol.com, Susan Maneck at
sma...@aol.com wrote on 17/9/03 1:25 pm:
Cal E. Rollins
It just goes to show you don't know what you're talking about. Kind of
laughable in fact, in this case. Shall I count the ways? But don't
ask, don't tell is my motto. Read up on espionage or take a course. Or
fall in love with a spy who's come in out of the cold. --Cal
Cal E. Rollins
Correction. "They're not emptying OUR pockets." That is if the
requests for our sacrificial giving to the Funds are sincere. I heard
that we have insurance for things like suits and disasters, but is there
a Bakshish Fund for emergencies like Nima? I've often wondered if it
comes out of Baha'i Funds but was afraid to ask. Do you know? --Cal
Paul Hammond
Error,
post my membership number, or shut the fuck up.
Freethought110
> That isn't what you said.
THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN ALLUDING TO IN FIVE POSTS NOW, SIMPLETON AO
MOLE. I have suggested she wouldn't have to appear to any inquiry. If
you cared to use the grey matter between your ears and read between
the lines, you would've caught on from the start.
> You need to confirm your statemetn that she was "clearly an undercover
> agent posing as a translator".
Which she was. Statement clarified again. Mai Pederson is clearly an
undercover agent for the American defense intelligence and posing as
an translator for the UN inspectors. That is how she got to meet David
Kelly and bring him over to the dark side of the force - baha'ism ;-)
> If what you say is true, the only thing that has been officially
> confirmed is her cover. For the rest, we only have your
> suspicions and Saddam's.
And the the Times of London's, AO mole.
> I thought you said you had legal training?
Yup. Are you jealous that you don't, AO mole?
> *I* know that she doesn't have to - I have explained this
> fact several times to your disciple, Error - but up until
> now, he has been asserting as fact that she *will* attend
> Hutton.
And exactly how is this relevant to me?
> But that isn't what you said. You assert definite knowledge,
> where you only have speculation.
Definite knowledge I do assert because 1) She works for military
intelligence, 2) it is *confirmed* that she helf assigments in Egypt,
Iran and Iraq. Pray tell, what exactly is a confirmed employee of the
US Defense department of Arab Kuwaiti origin doing *in* Iran? Iran
has had no official military arrangements with Iran since 1979.
> No. I am pointing out that you are evading the question.
Actually, it is you who is evading the question, AO mole. Go back and
look at your last post in this thread, limey jackass.
> So tell it to Error! I've been telling that since he first
> started down the Mata Hari line...
You tell it to Errol. I don't hold a leash on him as the AO does with
you.
> Plausible denial!
NOPE. Factual denial. You're saying that *you* don't recieve money
from the AO is a plausible denial because your loyalty to baha'ism and
its obnoxious administration is writ large, AO mole. So how much do
you get for your services, limey parrot? We should be told.
> I'm sure they are trembling in their boots at this!
Good, as they should. But they should really tremble in their boots
once they find out what's in store for them next ;-)
> If it is true that she was an undercover agent posing as a
> tranlator, as you and Saddam allege, the only thing that has
> been confirmed is her cover.
>
> Now, can you post the confirmation of your speculation, or
> can you not? Simple enough request, surely?
Can you explain what an Arab Kuwaiti employee of the United States
Department of Defense who holds a military rank as sergeant is doing
in IRAN, limey parrot?
Freethought110
Post you full name, address and telephone number, or shut the fuck up
yourself, AO mole.
Pen knife
> your assumptions.
Boy, you're a dense one. It's obvious he's not saying it for your benefit or
to convince you.
D. Melchin
ever saw her ...
I know Mai - and can only smile about the articles
--
Immer auf dem aktuellen Stand mit den Newsgroups von freenet.de:
http://newsgroups.freenet.de
MOST@btinternet.com Dermod Ryder
> Dermod,
>
> One of the explanations for that military base thing was that Baha'is
> could be in the military in a temporary non-combattant status if they
> were in the military before they became Baha'is--like having more than
> one wife before you declared so you didn't have to give any of them up,
> unless there were some you wanted to get rid of.
When I joined up I had a bottle of very fine whiskey, a remnant of a great
stock, the likes of which will never be seen again. I was told I'd have to
get rid of it. I can recollect your saying that one of the early Bahais had
to get rid of his vineyard yet we have a situation where BIGS are
volunteering to join the armed forces and getting away with it. There is no
non-combatant status in the armed forces. I smells hypocrisy here and not
for the first time either.
> An Afnan told me when I was a kid that one of the Shah's generals was a
> Baha'i, but the Guardian made him resign the Faith while he was serving
> as general. But later, another person told me he didn't resign and, not
> only that, but there were lots of Baha'is in the Shah's court and
> military. I never found out the true poop but did get pretty mad for
> having gotten pressure in my community on the issue of going into
> officer's training. --Cal
I've seen pictures of Bahai gatherings in Iran in the fifties with a
sprinkling of military uniforms apparent and hasn't the Great One among us,
the Nima-jan, uttered words about Bahais being up to their necks in the
Sha's government. One law for the plebs and one for the privileged, I
suspects.
Isn't that a Siberian filigree hamster called Basil scurrying about the
place?
>
Paul Hammond
Boy, maybe I think someone who *says* "this fact has been confirmed"
ought to be able to post the confirmation, to prove that he's
not just lying to us?
Boy, you're a dense one, aren't you?
Paul
Paul Hammond
Nima, the onus of proof is on you, and no-one posts such stuff
on the net.
If you can't find out who I am from all the information I have
already posted, then you are stupid - I mean *really* dumb.
Now, post my membership number, or shut the fuck up.
Paul
errol9
dmel...@freenet.de wrote on 18/9/03 10:42 am:
> Many people are writing about Mai Pederson ....Nobody knows her - nobody
> ever saw her ...
> I know Mai - and can only smile about the articles
Can you add anymore to this article, which has a number of photographs of
her and her first husband?...............Errol
Subject: DOES THIS WOMAN HOLD KEY TO DEATH OF KELLY.
"The Mail on Sunday" (TMOS) 7th September 2003
From Sharon Churcher ( In Monterey, California)
PHOTHGRAPH OF MAI PEDERSON ON FRONT PAGE written
underneath: QUIZZED: US spy Mai Pederson was close to Kelly.
Article heading:
DOES THIS WOMAN HOLD KEY TO DEATH OF KELLY.
This is the first picture of Seregant Mai Pederson, a twice
married American Spy who could hold vital clues to the death of
Dr David Kelly. Ms Pederson, 43, struck up a close friendship
with the Ministry of defense scientist when they were both
serving with a UN weapons inspection team in Iraq, and has
been questioned by officials investigating his death. She is a
veteran of American military intelligence and also a devotee of
the exotic Baha'ireligious sect. She converted Dr Kelly to the
Faith in 1999.
Yesterday it was revealed that Sgt Pederson may now be called
to give evidence at the Hutton inquiry into the death of 59 year old
Dr Kelly.
Page 2) The Mail On Sunday can disclose that she has already
been interviewed by British Investigators. The developments
have fuelled intense speculation in Whitehall. Observers said
Sgt Pederson testimony would open a new line of inquiry into the
tragedy and perhaps supply unique insights into Dr Kelly's frame
of mind and his links to international intelligence.
last night Sgt Pederson appeared to be in hiding, with US
officials refusing to to discuss the affair or say where she is. "
This is not a US investagation and it would be innappropiate for
us to discuss the inquiry" said a spoksman at the Maxwell
Gunter US Air Force base in Alabama, where Sgt Pederson is
stationed. " She is co-operating with the authorities. Asked
whether she had been questioned by the British authorities, the
spokeman replied "yes thats my understanding".
Sgt Pederson's ex husband James, told friends last week that
she was a 'spook' trained to cultivate anyone who might be able
to help her in her intelligence work. She broke the news of Dr
kellys death to fellow members of of the bahai sect telling them
not to believe what they would read about the affair in the press..
A Pentagon spokesman said last night " I can tell you
emphatically that we are not hiding her. We do not hide people"
(Page 6) Heading: REVEALED: HOW A MYSTERIOUS
AMERICAN SPY BEFRIENDED DR DAVID KELLY, CONVERTER
HIM TO AN EXOTIC EASTERN FAITH....AND COULD NOW BE
CALLED AS A WITNESS TO THE HUTTON INQUIRY.
MAI IS A BEAUTIFUL WOMAN. PART OF HER MILITARY
TRAINING WAS TO ZERO IN ON ANYONE WHO MIGHT BE ABLE
TO HELP HER INTELLIGENCE WORK.
She is a flirtatious divorcee, a spy for the American Air Force, and
a leading cheerleader for an exotic Eastern religious sect. And
now she may hold the key to the lonely, mysterious death of
David Kelly.
Petite mai Pederson, exclusively pictured today by TMOS
befriended Dr kelly while both were serving with the UN
weapons inspectors in Iraq in 1998. Before long, she converted
him to the Bahai Faith.
Ms Pederson was in hiding last night, and has been seldom
seen since Dr Kelly was found dead on July 18. Indeed, her
existance was unknown until last week, when, in a cryptic article
that mysteriously failed to appear in its main edition, the
Labour-supporting Times newspaper disclosed that she had
been the Government scientist's spirtual mentor. Hitherto,
altmost nothing had been known about the enigmatic Dr Kelly's
private life.
Yesterday The Times reported that the Hutton Inquiry into Dr
Kellys death was now considering whether to call Ms Pederson
as a witness, a development that could not be confirmed by
inquiry officials.
However, TMOS has established that Pederson has been
questioned by British authorities. The developments sparked
intense speculation in Whitehall last night. A senior source told
the TMOS " This would open up a whole new line of Inquiry",
which is possibly just what the government wants, the stakes
are high indeed".
So what llight could Mai Pederson shed on the tragedy of Dr
Kelly, who was found dead after being named as a source for a
BBC report that the government had sexed up the case fror war
on Iraq? TMOS has found no no evidence to support the Times
repeated implication that the self-effacing Government scientist
did indeed fall under Pederson's spell - and that she could
supply revealing insights into his state of mind.
In addition, it is clear that Pederson would have first hand
knowledge immerssion in the murky world of international
intelligence. It appears that Dr Kelly first met Ms Pederson in
Iraq in December 1998. He was part of the UN's weapons
inspection team; she was an Arabic inspection USAF sergeant
who had graduated from spy school "SHE HAD BEEN WHISKED
BY THE MILITARY" and
had held various posts in military intelligence.
She was also an energetic advocate of the bahai Faith 0 oddly,
perhaps because of its avowed opposition to militarism. They
became friends, not long afterwards Dr kelly began to appear at
bahai meetings in Monterey, California. He was sometimes
accompanied by Pederson, who was now based at a nerby
military spy school. She was introduced as his spirtual mentor,
to the puzzlement of some members of the sect. " There are
Bahai's all over the world, including England, He didnt have to
come all this way", one official said last week. Kristen Calwell
who runs a bookstore, added " One of the tenets of the Faith is
that you investigate it on your own".
An intelligent expert said last night that the American military had
tried - and often failed - to use weapons inspectors as
informants. Did Pederson target Dr Kelly for this reason?
The American Airforce was blocking inquiries on the subject last
night and is believed to have Pederson under its protection. "The
CIA was desperate to get information out of the inspectors" the
expert told TMOS "It had a policy of putting spooks alongside
some of the more uncooperative inspectors. It is inconceivable
that she was one these people. Its an amazing coincidance that
she was in the military"
At the time, it does not appear that Dr kelly smelled any rats. In
the autumn of 1999, after the Government scientist travelled to
monterey for several tutorials about the Faith he became a
formal convert. He declared that he believed Baha'u'llah, the
group's 19thcentury founder was sent to earth by God as "The
Promised one" -a successor to Jesus and other prophets and
signed a membership card promising to abide by Baha'i laws ',
which prohibit alcohol, drugs, adultery and party politics while
advocating "non military resolution of conflicts' and the
supremacy of the United Nations.
Bahai officials claim Kelly - an agnostic when they first met him
was impressed by the rationality of their belief's. Mai and Dr Kelly
came to our house several times', recalls Marilyn Vonberg, the
79 year old Monterey resident who was secretary of the
assembly at the time. 'She taught him the Faith. He was really
studying'. I was thrilled when he became a Bahai because he
was such an exceptional man. I gave him a book and he took it
back to England with him and bought another one there and sent
it to us. He said the book helped lead him to God' She adds that
Dr Kelly was impressed by Sgt Pederson's demeanour, her
calmness'
Various men came under the spell of the mysterious sergeant.
(page 6 & 7)
PHOTOGRAPH OF SGT MAI PEDERSON HOME IN MONGOMERY ALABAMA,
IS BEING SHIELDED FROM THE MEDIA BY THE USAF
Her first husband Cameron Dr Hart, a former US Special Forces
combat controller, said in an exclusive interview from his home
in Indianapolis: "Mai is a charmer. Her eyes are so beautiful that
when she looks at a man, she instantly can wrap him around her
little finger"
Her second husband, Us Airforce Sergeant Jim Pederson,
would concur. He has told friends: mai is a beautiful woman,
absolutely stuning. She was very sexy, seductive even, and was
always flirting with men. I am not suprised that she became a
friend of David Kelly. "Part of her military training was to cultivate
anyone who might be able to help her in her intelligence work
"It may well have been why she zeroed in on Dr kelly. She
undoubtedly viewed him as a potential intelligence source. The
two things that obsessed her were the military and the Bahai
faith"
Born Mai al-Sadat in the Gulf Kingdom of Kuwait, Pederson's
fluency in Arabic, German and French impressed her Pentagon
bosses. " She was given a top secret clearance, and one of her
first jobs was translating military documents', says a US
Defence Department insider. " Subsequently, she became a
translator and "tour guide" escorting other undercover operatives
on assignments in the Middle east'.
Jim Pederson told friends: She has always been a spook of one
kind of or another'. She is invaluable in this job because she
dosent look as though she's in intelligence. She goes in to
interrogate someone and she is tiny and beautiful, and she flirts
with them, and just sits down and chats. Before they know it
they've told her all sorts of stuff.
'The marriage never stood much of a chance from the start. Mai
was always going away for months at a time. She was proficent
with a gun and in basic unarmed combat and worked
undercover for long periods called TDA for Temporary Duty
Attachments - in Egypt and I believe Iran. She was a very
complex character'. But he stressed: She tok marriage very
seriously and was not at all promiscuous - just the opposite'.
Her first husband believes his exwife's adherance to the bahai
Faith was an act of rebellion against her strict Muslim father. In
199, after the couple seperated Mai became a language
instructor at the Defense Language Institute, a spy school the
USAF runs in Monterey. In her testimony to the Hutton Irguiry last
week, Dr kelly's widow Janice said she knew only a little about
her husbands conversion to Baha'i. She added however, that Mai
pederson had been quite influential in her husbands spirtual
quest and had become a family friend.
On the morning that Janice Kelly gave evidence, later editions of
the Times newspaper disclosed the existance of Mai Pederson
and of her importance in the life of Dr Kelly. The newspaper is an
unapologetic supporter of New Labour and along with the
Guardian and Financial Times, was responsible for naming Dr
kelly in the first instance. It gave no clue to the provenance of
its story which was printed only in a few thousand copies and not
noticed by the rest of the media.
During the week the newspaper ran another item - this time
about Dr Kelly and the bahai Faith - and then yesterday claimed
that Mai Pederson could be called as a witness when the Hutton
inquiry reconvenes later in the month. The Times quoted a
spokesman for the inquiry as saying : It is possible that she may
be called to give evidence."
Yesterday the inquiry told TMOS that her summons was indeed
possible, but by no means certain, However, yesterdays
admission to The mail on Sunday that Master Sgt Pederson had
been interviewed by the British investigating authouities -
presumably reporting to the m,inistry of Defense - confirmed that
Dr Kelly's superiors were aware of his friendship with the
engaging American spy.
Had the Ministry of Defense played any part in its emergence into
the press? Perhaps the one woman who knows the truth is Mai
Pederson. She did not respond to repeated requests by TMOS
for comment. Intriguingly, however, she was one of the very first
people to learn of Dr Kelly's body had been found
.
"She phoned us and said he had been found" says the Bahai
leader Marilyn VonBerg. Pederson then said that her friends
"shouldn't believe what we would be reading in the newspapers"
What could that possibly mean? " Its very mysterious to us"
admits Mrs VonBerg's husband, John. Mrs Vonbwerg was
unable to confirm the exact date of the call from Pederson
informing her and her husband of Dr Kelly's death. My husband
took the call" she said.
Since that call, Mai Pederson appears to have gone to ground.
Her Baha'i friends will not say where she is , although they have
been prepared to pass on telephone requests for interview,
which have all been declined. O)ne neighbour at Pederson's
most recent address in Mongomery, described her as a very
pleasant person who had introduced herself when she moved in
about a month ago. Prior to her move, which is believed to have
taken place during the Dossier row but before Dr Kelly was
named, Pederson appears to have been working at the
Pentagon's internal staff directory although her extension is not
working.
Her Alabama neighbour said: "She didn't say where she worked
and we are not the kind of people to ask. Other neighbours said
that they had breifly met Pederson but had not seen her for the
past week. Her neat, suburban ranch style bungalow in the leafy
suburb of east Montgomery, a 20 minute drive from Maxwell Air
Base where she works, stands empty.
The base, in one of the country's poorer regions, is one of the
biggest employer in the area and brings about $800 million into
the economy of the capatial of the state. At the vast complex early
last week, a MOS journalist asking to see Pederson was told : "
We have no one here of that name that I can find.
Subsequent inquires were referred to the base public affairs
officials. For several days, base Press Officers repeatedly
refused to answer questions related to Pederson, saying only
that all such inquiries should be directed to the British
Government. Only yesterday did an official confirm that Sgt
Pederson worked at the base and had been questioned over her
links to Kelly.
Paul Hammond
>
> > That isn't what you said.
>
> THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN ALLUDING TO IN FIVE POSTS NOW, SIMPLETON AO
> MOLE. I have suggested she wouldn't have to appear to any inquiry. If
> you cared to use the grey matter between your ears and read between
> the lines, you would've caught on from the start.
>
> > You need to confirm your statemetn that she was "clearly an undercover
> > agent posing as a translator".
>
> Which she was. Statement clarified again. Mai Pederson is clearly an
> undercover agent for the American defense intelligence and posing as
> an translator for the UN inspectors. That is how she got to meet David
> Kelly and bring him over to the dark side of the force - baha'ism ;-)
>
Hmm. Apparently, your proof is "because I say so", and when
you say that she was "clearly an undercover agent posing
as a translater" this is NOT a confirmed fact, as you assert,
but merely your speculation.
Like I said, this is exactly the sort of handwaving I used
to encounter in maths "proofs", where the person speaking
had no idea how to prove it, and just hoped that no-one
else would notice.
So, when you said that you theory was a fact that had already
been confirmed by statements in the press, you were just
lying as usual.
I guess it's a good job I asked you to post your proof here.
We have now seen that you don't have any.
>
> > I thought you said you had legal training?
>
> Yup. Are you jealous that you don't, AO mole?
>
It doesn't show. You can't tell the difference between
a confirmed fact, with evidence to back it up, and
your puerile speculations.
> >
> > Now, can you post the confirmation of your speculation, or
> > can you not? Simple enough request, surely?
>
> Can you explain what an Arab Kuwaiti employee of the United States
> Department of Defense who holds a military rank as sergeant is doing
> in IRAN, limey parrot?
You said that you had confirmation of your speculation.
Can you post that confirmation here, or not? A simple enough
request, surely?
The fact that this is the third time you have dodged this
request means that it is very likely that you don't have
the proof you said you had.
Paul
Susan Maneck
>> Post you full name, address and telephone number, or shut the fuck up
>> yourself, AO mole.
>
>
>Nima, the onus of proof is on you,
Paul,
I think he wants a date. ;-}
Paul Hammond
> >
> >> Post you full name, address and telephone number, or shut the fuck up
> >> yourself, AO mole.
> >
> >
> >Nima, the onus of proof is on you,
>
> Paul,
>
> I think he wants a date. ;-}
>
> warmest, Susan
>
You mean, Steve Marshall blew him out? He prefers Alison?
Well, who could believe *that*!
Freethought110
> Nima, the onus of proof is on you, and no-one posts such stuff
> on the net.
I have proven my case even to someone you don't currently suspect.
Your statements are all loaded with the worldview of a fundie baha'i
and committed AO cultist, and ever since I outed you here for what you
are your tone and demeanor has completely changed from since when you
first came to TRB. Now the onus is squarely on you to answer Eric
Stetson and Paul Harrison's question because neither Bruce nor I ain't
the only ones anymore who believe you are an agent of the uhj.
> If you can't find out who I am from all the information I have
> already posted, then you are stupid - I mean *really* dumb.
You have posted no trackable or verifiable information whatsoever.
> Now, post my membership number, or shut the fuck up.
Answer Eric and Paul Harrison's question or fuck off, AO mole!
Freethought110
> Hmm. Apparently, your proof is "because I say so", and when
> you say that she was "clearly an undercover agent posing
> as a translater" this is NOT a confirmed fact,
Misdirection, obfuscation, sleight of hand. This information has been
verified by the Times of London. If you haven't bothered to do your
homework, not my problem. Go look up the article. It's on Fred's site.
> as you assert,
> but merely your speculation.
Misdirection, sleight of hand. Nonsense.
> Like I said, this is exactly the sort of handwaving I used
> to encounter in maths "proofs", where the person speaking
> had no idea how to prove it, and just hoped that no-one
> else would notice.
Misdirection, obfuscation, sleight of hand, spin.
*snip*
> You said that you had confirmation of your speculation.
Indeed. Mai Al-Sadat was in Iran as recently as last year, and I will
not disclose my source for that whatsoever on TRB but to a bona fide
journalist. But that she was in Iran has already been confirmed by two
other sources aqnd is undisputed. Go do your homework.
> Can you post that confirmation here, or not? A simple enough
> request, surely?
Go check the articles. My third source locating her in Iran will
certainly not be disclosed to you or here. Ask your masters in Haifa
to share it with you. This bombshell I am only laying on a
*journalist*.
> The fact that this is the third time you have dodged this
> request means
I have not dodged it. You obviously have your head so far up your ass
that you don't bother to read the articles that are posted here but
simply spin away for your masters in Haifa, ya jajsus-e baytu'l-jahl-e
asghar!
Freethought110
> > in article 20030916120419...@mb-m12.aol.com, Susan Maneck at
> > sma...@aol.com wrote on 16/9/03 4:04 pm:
> >
> > >
> > >> If the Baha'i authorities think that Mai Pederson has
> > >> done anything wrong, that is a matter for the Baha'i
> > >> authorities.
> > >
> > > Dear Paul,
> > >
> > > Nima's evidence that Mai Pederson is a spy appears based on the fact she
> > > worked
> > > for the Department of Defense. What soldier doesn't?
> > >
> > > warmest, Susan
> >
> > So both Mai Pederson's former husbands and US journalist Sharon Churcher in
> > the The Mail On Sunday 7th September 2003 are all liars according to
> > Maneck? Nima evidence is here in this newspaper if you care to read it.
> >
> > Errol
> >
> >
>
> There is no evidence in this story.
>
> In fact, it seems like a piece of yellow journalism, more
> worthy of the News of the World than the Mail on Sunday.
Misdirection, sleight of hand, spin, obfuscation! And you're a
journalist, having had years of endless experince, and can
differentiate between bona fide journalism and its opposite. It
certainly appears you don't have a clue what you're talking about or
what journalism is, limey parrot.
> I mean, please, interviews with her ex-husbands where
> they go on about how "stunning", "sexy" and "flirtatious"
> she was?
>
> Is there any evidence to suggest that she had sex with
> Dr Kelly in order to recruit him as a spy/ recruit
> him as a Baha'i?
>
> Do you guys *really* think of the Baha'i Faith as
> an "exotic sect"?
>
> Come off it, Error!
>
> Paul
Freethought110
> > > > undercover agent posing as a translator, as has now been revealed."
> > >
> > > Post that confirmation. I don't believe you.
> >
> > Then what the fuck was she doing in Iraq with the UN inspectors, while
> > she is also working for the Pentagon, dumb idiot! Are you saying the
> > Times of London is lying??
> >
>
>
> agent posing as a translator".
Sleight of hand, obfuscation, non sequitor, stupidity squared. Let me
spell it out for a dense simpleton limey idiot such as yourself. An
employee of the US Defense Department who holds a military rank and is
embedded as a translator for UN inspectors (not American military but
UN inspection teams) would need specific clearance from the office of
UN arms inspection to do so. If not it is "clearly an undercover agent
posing as a translator." The onus is on you to establish that the
specific UN arms inspection arrangement *specifically* allowed in this
very _instance_ when she was in Iraq for a/any known American military
personnel and ranked employee(s) of the US Defense Department (and in
specific, Mai Pederson Al-Sadat) to act as ad hoc translator(s) in
Iraq for the UN inspection team which can more easily obtain
translators from within the rank of the UN bureacracy itself and does
not need help from Uncle Sam's slew of Arabists and linguists. Knowing
the UN and knowing the office Hans Blix ran before the end of his
term, I know that they do not allow this nor do they need Sergeant Mai
Pederson Al-Sadat's of the US Defense Department to translate for
them, ergo she is an undercover agent posing as a translator. When you
can obtain documentation from the relevant UN office which
specifically allowed Mai Pederson Al-Sadat to act as a translator,
with the full knowledge of said office about her rank and employment
with the US Department of Defense as well as the former Iraqi
government assenting thereunto with full knowledge thereof, stick your
finger up your butt, limey, and spin cuz, fool, the bitch was well and
truly a spook!
<rest of drivel snipped>
Freethought110
>
> I've seen pictures of Bahai gatherings in Iran in the fifties with a
> sprinkling of military uniforms apparent and hasn't the Great One among us,
> the Nima-jan, uttered words about Bahais being up to their necks in the
> Sha's government.
Yup. Yazdani, Sabet, Ayadi, to name the most prominent triumvirate
around the royal court. Btw, it turns out Zia Atabay, whose brother
has acted as personal secretary to Her ex-Imperial Highness Empress
Farah Diba Pahlavi since 1981, has baha'i family on both sides.
>One law for the plebs and one for the privileged, I
> suspects.
Indeed!
Susan Maneck
>You mean, Steve Marshall blew him out? He prefers Alison?
Hey, he was asking for *your* phone number!
NEMO418
> Many people are writing about Mai Pederson ....Nobody knows her - nobody
> ever saw her ...
> I know Mai - and can only smile about the articles
Is she currently single? Would she consider moving to the antipodes?
***** Bahai Faith *****
"Freethought110" <freetho...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:83b59396.03091...@posting.google.com...
> paha...@onetel.net.uk (Paul Hammond) wrote in message she was. Statement
>
> Indeed. Mai Al-Sadat was in Iran as recently as last year, and I will
> not disclose my source for that whatsoever on TRB but to a bona fide
> journalist. But that she was in Iran has already been confirmed by two
> other sources aqnd is undisputed. Go do your homework.
>
> > Can you post that confirmation here, or not? A simple enough
> > request, surely?
>
> Go check the articles. My third source locating her in Iran will
> certainly not be disclosed to you or here. Ask your masters in Haifa
> to share it with you. This bombshell I am only laying on a
> *journalist*.
Nima,
I urge you to contact the Hutton Inquiry if you do have such EVIDENCE.
The Hutton Inquiry Team is considering evidence submitted from the
Internet and will give it a fair hearing.
The Hutton Inquiry Secretariat
2nd Floor
81 Chancery Lane
LONDON
WC2A 1DD
Tel: 020 7855 5295
Fax: 020 7855 5299
E-mail: hutton....@dca.gsi.gov.uk
http://www.the-hutton-inquiry.org.uk
--
EVIDENCE grows... Dr. David Kelly & the Baha'i Faith
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Kelly.htm
Frederick Glaysher
The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/
***** Bahai Faith *****
news:20030918234917...@mb-m15.aol.com...
> >
> >You mean, Steve Marshall blew him out? He prefers Alison?
>
> Hey, he was asking for *your* phone number!
Dear non-bahai observer,
Please understand and reflect on how desperate the fundamentalists
are among my fellow bahais to prevent your investigation into what
role the bahai administration played in the death/suicide of
Dr. David Kelly. For background on Susan Maneck, see
Susan Maneck, Baha'i scholar:
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Maneck8.htm
"In short, she has lied and made misleading statements about
me in the past and this recent statement of hers is just
another example of her lack of honesty." Steven Scholl
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Scholl4.htm
"...she has behaved toward me in an academic setting
with dishonesty and deceit in such a way as deprives her
of the right to debate me publicly. She spied on me and
lied about it. She betrayed confidences in such a way as
to cause her academic colleagues to demand and get her
resignation from a position she had held." Prof. Juan Cole
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Cole20.htm
"Isn't it sort of suspicious that she shows up at AOL
backbiting me so assiduously on a forum where I am not
even present? ... Is the only way to stay a Baha'i
to capitulate morally in this way?" Prof. Juan Cole
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Cole19.htm
"As for Maneck's relationship to the Baha'i authorities,
she has herself boasted to common friends of ours of
corresponding with House members about how to 'deal with
Cole', and she served as a spy on an academic editorial
committee for counselor Ghadirian, passing over to him
detailed reports on confidential discussions, one of
which she accidentally sharedwith an editor. And now
she wishes to make my revelation of this role itself
a reason for which *I* should be thought delusional?"
Prof. Juan Cole
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Cole74.htm
Further details on Baha'i scholar Susan Maneck at
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Maneck1.htm
See her slandering other views as garbage:
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Maneck3.htm
See her slandering other views as litter:
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Maneck7.htm
See also messages related to her abuse of AOL :
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/AOL.htm
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/AOLcensorship.htm
HIKMAT
Outside observers should be especially careful and alert
to Hikmat & Taqiya, "wisdom" and dissimulation, key Baha'i
concepts:
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/hikmatMENU.htm
Paul Hammond
>
> > Nima, the onus of proof is on you, and no-one posts such stuff
> > on the net.
>
> I have proven my case even to someone you don't currently suspect.
> Your statements are all loaded with the worldview of a fundie baha'i
> and committed AO cultist, and ever since I outed you here for what you
> are your tone and demeanor has completely changed from since when you
> first came to TRB. Now the onus is squarely on you to answer Eric
> Stetson and Paul Harrison's question because neither Bruce nor I ain't
> the only ones anymore who believe you are an agent of the uhj.
>
> > If you can't find out who I am from all the information I have
> > already posted, then you are stupid - I mean *really* dumb.
>
> You have posted no trackable or verifiable information whatsoever.
>
Yes I have. And I'm not putting myself in more danger
of encountering your hatred in the real world.
> > Now, post my membership number, or shut the fuck up.
>
> Answer Eric and Paul Harrison's question or fuck off, AO mole!
You seem to be the only one harping on about it. If they
are that interested THEY are welcome to question me
further.
YOU can put up my membership number, or shut the fuck up.
you've been calling me an AO mole without a shred of
evidence for nearly a year now. It's about time you
put up or shut up, isn't it?
Paul
Paul Hammond
>
> > Hmm. Apparently, your proof is "because I say so", and when
> > you say that she was "clearly an undercover agent posing
> > as a translater" this is NOT a confirmed fact,
>
> Misdirection, obfuscation, sleight of hand. This information has been
> verified by the Times of London. If you haven't bothered to do your
> homework, not my problem. Go look up the article. It's on Fred's site.
>
Can you post that confirmation here, or not? A simple enough
request, surely?
The fact that this is the fourth time you've dodged the
request confirms even more the fact that you have no
such confirmation.
> > as you assert,
> > but merely your speculation.
>
> Misdirection, sleight of hand. Nonsense.
>
Bluster, filibuster, nonsense.
The Hazini Technique in action.
Paul Hammond
> paha...@onetel.net.uk (Paul Hammond) wrote in message news:<c977f97b.03091...@posting.google.com>...
> > freetho...@yahoo.com (Freethought110) wrote in message news:<83b59396.03091...@posting.google.com>...
> > > paha...@onetel.net.uk (Paul Hammond) wrote in message
> > >
> > > > " clearly an
> > > > > undercover agent posing as a translator, as has now been revealed."
> > > >
> > > > Post that confirmation. I don't believe you.
> > >
> > > Then what the fuck was she doing in Iraq with the UN inspectors, while
> > > she is also working for the Pentagon, dumb idiot! Are you saying the
> > > Times of London is lying??
> > >
> >
> > That isn't what you said.
> >
> > You need to confirm your statemetn that she was "clearly an undercover
> > agent posing as a translator".
>
> Sleight of hand, obfuscation, non sequitor, stupidity squared.
Direct quote from your first post, actually.
Let me
> spell it out for a dense simpleton limey idiot such as yourself. An
> employee of the US Defense Department who holds a military rank and is
> embedded as a translator for UN inspectors (not American military but
> UN inspection teams) would need specific clearance from the office of
> UN arms inspection to do so. If not it is "clearly an undercover agent
> posing as a translator."
This is your own puerile speculation.
you said that this fact had been directly confirmed.
If that is the case, it should be simple enough for you
to post that direct confirmation, without all this "if this,
then that" handwaving you are doing to cover up the
fact that you don't have the information you
said you had.
I think you'll find that Mai did have that clearance.
Paul
errol9
> freetho...@yahoo.com (Freethought110) wrote in message
> news:<83b59396.0309...@posting.google.com>...
> An employee of the US Defense Department who holds a military rank and is
> embedded as a translator for UN inspectors (not American military but
> UN inspection teams) would need specific clearance from the office of
> UN arms inspection to do so. If not it is "clearly an undercover agent
> posing as a translator."
You hit the nail on the head here Nima. Serious questions must be asked.
No1) Why should a British UN inspector have a Sergeant from the USAF with
him as a translator.
No2) Surely Britian and the UN have their own civilian (English - Arabic)
translators without depending on the US military to supply them.
No3) Why would one group of "UN Inspector and his translator" both be
Baha'is. Is this proof the Bahai Administration had imput here?
No 4) How many other US military (spy-translators) were attached to other UN
inspectors, and how many of them were Bahais?
No 5) Is this an example of what the Bahai's get up to in their undercover
work in the UN?
SADDAM KICKED OUT THE INSPECTORS IN 1998, FALSELY CLAIMING THEY HAD BEEN
INFILTRATED BY CIA SPIES TRYING TO KILL HIM
After angrily denying Saddam Hussein's claim about spying, the Clinton
Administration urged the inspectors to leave in anticipation of the U.S.'s
1998 bombing of Iraq for its "defiance." Yet, in early January 1999, after
the bombing was over, The Boston Globe, The Washington Post, and The New
York Times confirmed that the UNSCOM inspection teams had been infiltrated
by U.S. spies, who were selecting bombing targets and trying to track Saddam
Hussein for possible assassination.
http://www.nhpeaceaction.org/news/web_of_lies.php
No 6) Was the information Saddam received (about the likes of the
Kelly/Pederson spy partnership) along with other spies not false afterall,
as Saddam was accused when he threw all the UN inspectors & their US
military Spy translators out of Iraq in 1998?...................Errol
Paul Hammond
> >
> >You mean, Steve Marshall blew him out? He prefers Alison?
>
> Hey, he was asking for *your* phone number!
>
>
he's not my type, Susan.
Susan Maneck
>he's not my type, Susan.
>
Well, break it to him gently, Paul.
Freethought110
> Yes I have.
No you haven't.
> And I'm not putting myself in more danger
> of encountering your hatred in the real world.
Why, are you afraid that you real identity will be finally disclosed?
> You seem to be the only one harping on about it.
Because I won't be letting you off the hook - ever!
> YOU can put up my membership number, or shut the fuck up.
YOU can answer the question or fuck off right out of here, AO mole.
Answer!
> you've been calling me an AO mole without a shred of
> evidence for nearly a year now.
The evidence is write large especially in your unashsamed defense of
the AO line. There is no doubt whatsoever that you are a mole.
Freethought110
> Let me
> > spell it out for a dense simpleton limey idiot such as yourself. An
> > employee of the US Defense Department who holds a military rank and is
> > embedded as a translator for UN inspectors (not American military but
> > UN inspection teams) would need specific clearance from the office of
> > UN arms inspection to do so. If not it is "clearly an undercover agent
> > posing as a translator."
>
> This is your own puerile speculation.
Nope, AO mole, this is how the UN arms inspection regime actually
works. It will not hire or use military personnel from any government
unless there is a specific ad hoc basis for it. Clearly, there is no
evidence whatsoever that the arms inspectors required the ad hoc
appointment of Mai Pederson al-Sadat, a ranked sergeant and employee
of the US Defense Department, as a translator when there are many
other people it can hire from within its own personnel both in the Mid
East as well as Geneva and NYC. Pederson was a spooking and was
clearly an undercover agent posing as a translator. If you can prove
that she had specific ad hoc clearance with both the UN and the former
Iraqi government, with their full, complete knowledge that she was an
employee for the US DD, to act as a translator, post the
documentation. However, to the chagrin of you and your masters in
Haifa, there is no such documentation by the UN or the former Iraqi
government to that effect - or with their knowledge of her "actual"
employment.
> you said that this fact had been directly confirmed.
Indeed, but I'm only giving that information to someone who will use
it.
> handwaving you are doing to cover up the
> fact that you don't have the information you
> said you had.
I have, and the handwaving is all yours, AO mole.
> I think you'll find that Mai did have that clearance.
And you know this how, AO mole? Haifa told you so, or is did their
colonial masters in Palestine, the MOSSAD, tell you??
Freethought110
Done! Let's see what good, if any, the information I have passed on will have.
Paul Hammond
It's a guess - but you ought to check your facts out, before
you go around touting speculation as fact, as you have
done here.
If someone *can't* put up evidence they say that they
have, and instead of the direct confirmation they
allege, it's all "well, if you work for a UN
inspection team, you need this and that, then, if
you haven't got it, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
so I conclude Saddam was right, and Mai was a
spy posing as a translator", then something is up.
You didn't say "I have a long, involved argument
that means you have to accept my assumptions"
You said "CLEARLY Mai Pederson was a spy, and I have
the confirmation to prove it".
When I asked you to post that confirmation, you
couldn't do it.
Ergo, you were lying when you said you had it.
QED.
Paul
Paul Hammond
>
> > Yes I have.
>
> No you haven't.
>
> > And I'm not putting myself in more danger
> > of encountering your hatred in the real world.
>
> Why, are you afraid that you real identity will be finally disclosed?
>
No. I'm afraid that the real life hassle that has forced
Dermod to leave this group might descend on me. I have
given enough information for people to find out
the phone number and address of my place of work, and
for people to confirm that I attended Keele University
from 1989-1993, Liverpool from 93-94. You know
what subjects I did there.
That is ENOUGH, and MORE than enough.
I don't need to dance to the tune of a twat like you.
Now, isn't it about time you put up or shut up?
WHERE is the evidence that leads you to persecute
me like the?
Now, post my membership number, or shut the fuck up.
>
> > you've been calling me an AO mole without a shred of
> > evidence for nearly a year now.
>
> The evidence is write large especially in your unashsamed defense of
> the AO line. There is no doubt whatsoever that you are a mole.
No doubt in the mind of a megalomac Iranian idiot like you.
Susan Maneck
>> colonial masters in Palestine, the MOSSAD, tell you??
>It's a guess - but you ought to check your facts out, before
>you go around touting speculation as fact,
Dear Paul,
So now you are a Mossad mole?
LOL. Tell me, were you the one who told Mossad that Abu Mazen was a Baha'i? Why
do you suppose the supposed 'colonial masters' of the AO would have let this
one out of the bag?
warmest, Susan
Freethought110
> It's a guess - but you ought to check your facts out, before
> you go around touting speculation as fact, as you have
> done here.
Why don't you work a little harder for your bosses in Haifa and
actually find out how things work at the UN and its various agencies.
Not only have I checked my facts, but what I said came straight out of
the mouth of a leading Australian Professor of Public International
Law who served Hans Blix's predecessor (Richard Butler) as a legal
consultant for the UN's arms inspection regime in Iraq prior to the
arms inspectors getting booted by Saddam in 1998. I have completely
appraised him of the Mai Pederson case and he totally agrees with me.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it, limey, and work harder and go find
the documentary evidence which allowed Mai Pederson Al-Sadat (with the
full knowledge of her rank and employment) as a translator for UN arms
inspectors!
> If someone *can't* put up evidence they say that they
> have, and instead of the direct confirmation they
> allege, it's all "well, if you work for a UN
> inspection team, you need this and that, then, if
> you haven't got it, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
> so I conclude Saddam was right, and Mai was a
> spy posing as a translator", then something is up.
I have received confirmation from a reliable source that Mai al-Sadat
was in Iran as recently as last year. I am neither telling you what my
source is or where it came from. If you're interested in finding out,
contact the Hutton Inquiry.
> Ergo, you were lying when you said you had it.
Ergo, you are the only two-faced liar here, AO mole, I have
confirmation that Sadat was in Iran and I have passed it along to the
appropriate people. Contact them if you're desirous to find out or
maybe the information will somehow hit your news stands in the not too
distant future.
Tis the season to be jolly!
Paul Hammond
You didn't claim that you had a confirmation that Mai
Pederson had been in Iran.
You claimed that you had confirmation that Mai
was "clearly an undercover agent posing as a translator"
in relation to her time working in Iraq, where she
met Dr Kelly.
You have dodged posting that "confirmation" since then,
ergo, you do not have it.
Changing your story isn't the same thing as posting
a confirmation that you said you had a week ago.
Paul
Freethought110
!
>
> You didn't claim that you had a confirmation that Mai
> Pederson had been in Iran.
Yes I did. ;-) I DO now have confirmation she was in Iran, which I
sent over to the Hutton inquiry and a couple of British newspapers!
> You claimed that you had confirmation that Mai
> was "clearly an undercover agent posing as a translator"
> in relation to her time working in Iraq, where she
> met Dr Kelly.
Proven. Go read my post again, if you didn't understand it the first
time, AO mole. I happen to know how the arms inspection regime works
and also have confirmation on it from a reputable Public International
Law professor who also happened to work with Richard Butler. He also
agrees with me about Mai. You don't have a clue what you're on about,
so shut your AO mole trap, limey parrot!
> You have dodged posting that "confirmation" since then,
> ergo, you do not have it.
I have. The confirmation - in case you can't read and are now trying
to obfuscate - was about Pederson's whereabouts in Iran. That is now
confirmed.
> Changing your story isn't the same thing as posting
> a confirmation that you said you had a week ago.
Ahh, misdirection, you are now changing your story, not to mention
haven't even touched the argument about the the modus operandi of the
UN inspection regime, AO mole!
Palu wanna cracker?
Freethought110
> No. I'm afraid that the real life hassle that has forced
> Dermod to leave this group might descend on me.
You are afraid, period, because I have completely outed you. But what
awaits you ultimately is far, far more potent than anything which
Errol did to Dermod. You will go down and I will take you and your
whole organization down to the abyss, AO mole! Wait and see! You have
made a very grave miscalculation in getting so overconfident thinking
you could actually cross swords with me.
>I have
> given enough information for people to find out
> the phone number and address of my place of work, and
> for people to confirm that I attended Keele University
> from 1989-1993, Liverpool from 93-94. You know
> what subjects I did there.
No you haven't.
> That is ENOUGH, and MORE than enough.
No it is not.
> I don't need to dance to the tune of a twat like you.
LOL :)) Whatever you say, AO mole! You have been outed.
> Now, isn't it about time you put up or shut up?
Answer the question. How can a non-baha'i be a member of a baha'i
organization and why does a non-baha'i "disappointed atheist" take a
pro-baha'i AO line on every issue?
> WHERE is the evidence that leads you to persecute
> me like the?
Your own words. Persecution? LOL :))
> Now, post my membership number, or shut the fuck up.
Answer the questions or fuck off, AO mole!
> No doubt in the mind of a megalomac Iranian idiot like you.
"meglomac"? Losing your nerve AO mole! LOL :)) And many other people
as well who have asked you the same question and you have failed to
answer and evaded it. You are a mole for the AO and there is
absolutely no doubt it whatsoever. And, idiot, you would need to be a
card-carrier to be one. If you think people are dumb anough to believe
that, you need to look out of the baha'i community every once in a
while to realize not everyone is as stupid and brain dead as baha'is.
Freethought110
paha...@onetel.net.uk (Paul Hammond) wrote in message news:<c977f97b.0309...@posting.google.com>...
Paul Hammond
>
> !
> >
> > You didn't claim that you had a confirmation that Mai
> > Pederson had been in Iran.
>
> Yes I did. ;-) I DO now have confirmation she was in Iran, which I
> sent over to the Hutton inquiry and a couple of British newspapers!
>
> > You claimed that you had confirmation that Mai
> > was "clearly an undercover agent posing as a translator"
> > in relation to her time working in Iraq, where she
> > met Dr Kelly.
>
> Proven. Go read my post again, if you didn't understand it the first
> time, AO mole. I happen to know how the arms inspection regime works
> and also have confirmation on it from a reputable Public International
> Law professor who also happened to work with Richard Butler. He also
> agrees with me about Mai. You don't have a clue what you're on about,
> so shut your AO mole trap, limey parrot!
>
> > You have dodged posting that "confirmation" since then,
> > ergo, you do not have it.
>
> I have. The confirmation - in case you can't read and are now trying
> to obfuscate - was about Pederson's whereabouts in Iran. That is now
> confirmed.
>
<sigh>
Let's go back to the top of the thread.
Here are your claims about Pederson:
(15th September)
Mai Pederson (Al-Sadat) is a Baha'i working for the Defence Department
in Baghdad. We know this courtesy of the Hutton enquiry.
Mai Pederson (Al-Sadat) was a spiritual mentor to Dr David Kelly. She
introduced Dr Kelly to the baha'i faith. We know this courtesy of the
Hutton enquiry.
In addition to their official duties both Mai Pederson (Al-Sadat) and
Dr Kelly had other work in Baghdad. Pederson (Al-Sadat) was clearly an
undercover agent posing as a translator, as has now been revealed.
Pederson (Al-Sadat) had conducted similar spying assignments for the
Defence Department in the past in Egypt and it turns out Iran. We know
this courtesy of the Hutton enquiry, US Defence Department and the
Times of London.
----
Your statement "Pederson was clearly an undercover agent posing
as a translator, as has now been revealed" floats, unsupported
by the evidence.
You are jumping from facts (Pederson was working for the
Defence department in Baghdad) to your own speculations
"Pederson was an undercover agent posing as a translator"
without linking the argument.
You tell me this has been "revealed". I asked to see the
confirmation.
Instead of providing the confirmation, you adduce a weak
argument, and very weak evidence.
This certainly suggests that the confirmation which
you allege does not, in fact, exist.
Learn a little logic, and your arguments might be better
founded in future. No prizes for *this* piece of sophistry
you have tried to pull on us.
Here is further in the thread:
(16th September)
freetho...@yahoo.com (Freethought110) wrote in message news:<83b59396.03091...@posting.google.com>...
> paha...@onetel.net.uk (Paul Hammond) wrote in message
>
> > You'll have to fill in a few steps in this "clearly".
> >
> > As when I was a mathematician, "clearly" usually means
> > "I have no idea how to prove this".
>
> Clearly in this case means confirmed by the press and the US Defense
> Department.
>
" clearly an
> undercover agent posing as a translator, as has now been revealed."
Post that confirmation. I don't believe you.
---
Now, where is that confirmation by the press and
the US Defence department that Pederson was a spy
posing as a translater?
I haven't seen it, and it is now 22nd September.
Surely, if you do have such confirmation, it is the simplest
thing in the world to post it?
Paul
Cal E. Rollins
Watch for any notice that Mai may be in detention rather than hiding
out. This morning's blurb on CNN was too tasty to not have implications
for us in the Faith. --al