Montazeri's REAL fatwa: BAHAIM VERSION A DOCTORED FAKE
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
him and grant him success) for posting the link below. This finally
demonstrates my case beyond any reasonable doubt and to a moral
certainty proving that the version of Montazeri’s opinion diffused by
the Haifan Bahaim to the Western media is tout court fraudulent and
interpolatively manufactured. As an aside, ironically enough, the tone
of this missive is precisely the sort of bullshit the uhj regularly
sends out when encouraging someone to be shunned. If the Haifan Bahaim
are happy with this in its original format, the Lord of All-Creation
help them, because they will need it! Ayatollah Montazeri is
definitely no friend of theirs. Yet given this, with utmost arrogance
and in the height of all dishonesty and sleaze, the Haifan Bahaim have
taken two completely different missives, manipulatively cut, pasted
and cobbled sections together (like they do in other settings as
well), changed dates around (in other words, ‘DOCTORED’ a specious
fatwa) and offered it to the world press as ‘the’ fatwa issued by the
dissident Iranian cleric advocating for their ‘special’ rights in
Iran. He is not doing anything of the sort whatsoever. He is
articulating the general principle of ‘rights’ under the Qur’an
regarding those who are, contextually speaking, non-combatants as well
a letter of the First Shi’ite Imam (as) that qualifies what such
rights would entail as applying to non-Muslims. Later Montazeri quite
specifically instances exceptions to this rule where “such persons”
are pursuing a path of enmity against the people of Iran. Given this,
those like Ian Kluge or the Hayat-i-Yaran and the Bahaim AO in
entirety, would specifically fall under the ‘enemies of the nation’
rubric, and so prosecuted by the rights of the nation they are seeking
to exploit given their active ‘association with the enemies of the
nation’ (viz. the governments and intelligence establishments of the
states of Israel and the United States). At the beginning he is
deliberate in showing his opinion of Bahaism: he calls it a misled
cult (firqe-ye zale). In essence, therefore, Montazeri is arguing no
different than what the present regime is saying itself about the
Haifan Bahaim organization. So much for this being a fatwa issued in
their favor. Here is the link from Montazeri’s site Pacifist put up:
http://tinyurl.com/55b9tp
And here below, finally, is what Montazeri actually said IN FULL on
the date originally attributed to him by the ___Haifan Bahaim doctored
fatwa___ (my technical translation follows below):
--
In His Name, the Most High!
With salutations and blessings. The opinion of this person (nazar-i-
een jenab) regarding the misled cult of Bahaism (firqe-ye zale-ye
baha’iye) is the same opinion as the one held during the years before
the Revolution, and so has not changed. However [the case of] those
who in most cases are not followers of any of the religions sent by
heaven (adyan-i-asimani) [i.e. Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity
and Islam] are referable to the ruling wisdom of the illustrious
verse, “Allah forbideth thee from dealing unkindly and unjustly with
those who do not fight against thee in the faith nor are ones driving
thee out of thy homes, for Allah loveth those who are just” (Qur’an.
60:8); as well as per the letter of the Commander of the Faithful
[‘Ali] to Malik Ashtar, “You must kindle in thy heart kindness,
compassion and love for thy subjects. Do not behave towards them as if
you are a voracious and ravenous beast and as if your success lies in
devouring them… they are brothers to you, and those who have a
religion [other than yours], they are human beings like you (The Peak
of Eloquence/Nahju’l-Balagha, Letter 53). [As such] their human rights
should be respected.
[Now] citizenship rights are also in one particular respect universal
and its limits should [therefore] be specified in that respect on the
basis of the customary [‘or’ canon] law (‘urfi) and the Constitution
[of the Islamic Republic] by the [will of the] majority of the
people. However if certain persons are [determined in] pursuing [the
path of] enmity against the people of the nation and are abetting
foreign enemies, and if their association [with these foreign enemies]
be established for the court(s) pursuant to the laws of the nation,
they should be punished according to the law(s). Their citizenship
[rights] (shahrvandi-i-anan) does not impede [or ‘obstruct’] the body
of the law [to act] (mani’ az ajza’-i-qanun nemishavad]. [Yet] it is
also necessary that precautions be taken (lazim ast morraqibat shavad)
so that the youth of the nation (javanan-i-keshvar) do not become
embroiled in their evil propaganda (tablighat-i-su’-i-anan); and if
such dealings and association with them will only give cause to their
[cultivation and] strength (mu’amileh va mu’asherat mujib-i-taghviyat-
i-anan shavad), it is essential to disassociate from [‘or’ shun] them
(lazim ast az an ijtinab gardad).
God willing, may your success be assured!
1387/3/25
--
And the original Persian text:
بسمه تعالی
با سلام و تحیت
نظر این جانب در مورد فرقه ضاله بهائیه همان نظر سالهای قبل از انقلاب
است و تغییری نکرده است . ولی به طور کلی افرادی که تابع هیچ یک از ادیان
آسمانی نیستند نیز به حکم آیه شریفه : " لا ینهاکم الله عن الذین لم
یقاتلوکم فی الدین و لم یخرجوکم من دیارکم ان تبروهم و تقسطوا الیهم ان
الله یحب المقسطین ". (سوره ممتحنه ، آیه 8) و فرمایش امیرالمومنین علیه
السلام در نامه به مالک اشتر: "واشعر قلبک الرحمة للرعیة والمحبة لهم
واللطف بهم و لا تکونن علیهم سبعا ضاریا تغتنم اکلهم فانهم صنفان : اما
اخ لک فی الدین او نظیر لک فی الخلق " (نهج البلاغة، نامه 53) باید حقوق
انسانی آنان رعایت شود.
حقوق شهروندی نیز یک واژه کلی است و حدود آن باید بر اساس عرف و قانون
اساسی مورد پذیرش اکثریت مردم مشخص شود. البته اگر کسانی در صدد دشمنی با
مردم کشور برآیند و با دشمنان خارجی همکاری نمایند و همکاری آنان مطابق
قوانین کشور برای دادگاه صالح ثابت شود باید طبق قانون مجازات شوند. و
شهروندی آنان مانع از اجراء قانون نمی شود. و لازم است مراقبت شود جوانان
کشور گرفتار تبلیغات سوء آنان نشوند، و اگر معامله و معاشرت با آنان موجب
تقویت آنان شود لازم است از آن اجتناب گردد.
ان شاء الله موفق باشید.
1387/3/25
-
This episode should give pause for reflection to any sincere and
conscientious person. In order to deflect attention from malfeasances
they themselves have created all over the place, with a straight face
and without the least compunction, they lie about abusive anti-Islamic
letters they themselves have spawned against defenseless expatriate
eighty-five year old men who read poetry on local cable channel, and
then in the height of mindboggling arrogance they take it upon
themselves to manufacture purely fictional stories based on ‘marginal’
facts and in the most ‘marginal’ of outlets of the Western press,
while pretending it is a major story. They lie and they lie and they
lie and they lie and they lie some more and then lie again …. An
organization which will stoop to this level of deceit, obfuscation,
lying, unbelievable sleaze and misdirection cannot be trusted
regarding anything it says at any time anywhere, whether in the past,
the present or the future. Episodes such as this should finally begin
proving to those still not convinved regarding what we Bayanis have
been stating all along for years about these so-and-sos, especially as
it pertains to their deliberate tampering, doctoring and totally
deliberate whitewash of Babi history and texts.
Luckily Montazeri’s site is not wikipedia whereby Bahaim editors can
gratuitously manipulate and erase messages and discussions they don’t
like.
Jeffrey, this here is pure gold! Use it, and use it well.
W
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
Terrorist-Mullahs-Must-Die
áÇ Çáå ÇáÇ Çááå ÍÞÇð ÍÞÇð <wahid...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:627b1cd6-d4d8-4e45...@i36g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
> Many thanks to Pacifist (may the Godhead be pleased with him, protect
> him and grant him success) for posting the link below. This finally
> demonstrates my case beyond any reasonable doubt and to a moral
> certainty proving that the version of Montazeri’s opinion diffused
> by the Haifan Bahaim to the Western media is tout court fraudulent and
> interpolatively manufactured. As an aside, ironically enough, the tone
> of this missive is precisely the sort of bullshit the uhj regularly
> sends out when encouraging someone to be shunned. If the Haifan Bahaim
> are happy with this in its original format, the Lord of All-Creation
> help them, because they will need it! Ayatollah Montazeri is
> definitely no friend of theirs. Yet given this, with utmost arrogance
> and in the height of all dishonesty and sleaze, the Haifan Bahaim have
> taken two completely different missives, manipulatively cut, pasted
> and cobbled sections together (like they do in other settings as
> well), changed dates around (in other words, ‘DOCTORED’ a specious
> fatwa) and offered it to the world press as ‘the’ fatwa issued by
> the dissident Iranian cleric advocating for their ‘special’ rights
> in Iran. He is not doing anything of the sort whatsoever. He is
> articulating the general principle of ‘rights’ under the Qur’an
> regarding those who are, contextually speaking, non-combatants as well
> a letter of the First Shi’ite Imam (as) that qualifies what such
> rights would entail as applying to non-Muslims. Later Montazeri quite
> specifically instances exceptions to this rule where “such
> persons†are pursuing a path of enmity against the people of Iran.
> Given this, those like Ian Kluge or the Hayat-i-Yaran and the Bahaim
> AO in entirety, would specifically fall under the ‘enemies of the
> nation’ rubric, and so prosecuted by the rights of the nation they
> are seeking to exploit given their active ‘association with the
> enemies of the nation’ (viz. the governments and intelligence
> establishments of the states of Israel and the United States). At the
> beginning he is deliberate in showing his opinion of Bahaism: he calls
> it a misled cult (firqe-ye zale). In essence, therefore, Montazeri is
> arguing no different than what the present regime is saying itself
> about the Haifan Bahaim organization. So much for this being a fatwa
> issued in their favor. Here is the link from Montazeri’s site
> Pacifist put up:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/55b9tp
>
> And here below, finally, is what Montazeri actually said IN FULL on
> the date originally attributed to him by the ___Haifan Bahaim doctored
> fatwa___ (my technical translation follows below):
>
> --
>
> In His Name, the Most High!
>
> With salutations and blessings. The opinion of this person (nazar-i-
> een jenab) regarding the misled cult of Bahaism (firqe-ye zale-ye
> baha’iye) is the same opinion as the one held during the years
> before the Revolution, and so has not changed. However [the case of]
> those who in most cases are not followers of any of the religions sent
> by heaven (adyan-i-asimani) [i.e. Zoroastrianism, Judaism,
> Christianity and Islam] are referable to the ruling wisdom of the
> illustrious verse, “Allah forbideth thee from dealing unkindly and
> unjustly with those who do not fight against thee in the faith nor are
> ones driving thee out of thy homes, for Allah loveth those who are
> just†(Qur’an. 60:8); as well as per the letter of the Commander
> of the Faithful [‘Ali] to Malik Ashtar, “You must kindle in thy
> heart kindness, compassion and love for thy subjects. Do not behave
> towards them as if you are a voracious and ravenous beast and as if
> your success lies in devouring them… they are brothers to you, and
> those who have a religion [other than yours], they are human beings
> like you (The Peak of Eloquence/Nahju’l-Balagha, Letter 53). [As
> such] their human rights should be respected.
> [Now] citizenship rights are also in one particular respect universal
> and its limits should [therefore] be specified in that respect on the
> basis of the customary [‘or’ canon] law (‘urfi) and the
> Constitution [of the Islamic Republic] by the [will of the] majority
> of the people. However if certain persons are [determined in] pursuing
> [the path of] enmity against the people of the nation and are abetting
> foreign enemies, and if their association [with these foreign enemies]
> be established for the court(s) pursuant to the laws of the nation,
> they should be punished according to the law(s). Their citizenship
> [rights] (shahrvandi-i-anan) does not impede [or ‘obstruct’] the
> body of the law [to act] (mani’ az ajza’-i-qanun nemishavad].
> [Yet] it is also necessary that precautions be taken (lazim ast
> morraqibat shavad) so that the youth of the nation (javanan-i-keshvar)
> do not become embroiled in their evil propaganda
> (tablighat-i-su’-i-anan); and if such dealings and association with
> them will only give cause to their [cultivation and] strength
> (mu’amileh va mu’asherat mujib-i-taghviyat- i-anan shavad), it is
> essential to disassociate from [‘or’ shun] them (lazim ast az an
> ijtinab gardad).
>
> God willing, may your success be assured!
> 1387/3/25
>
> --
>
>
> And the original Persian text:
>
> بسمه تعالی
> با سلام Ùˆ تØیت
> نظر این جانب در مورد ٠رقه ضاله بهائیه
> همان نظر سالهای قبل از انقلاب است و
> تغییری نکرده است . ولی به طور کلی
> ا٠رادی که تابع هیچ یک از ادیان آسمانی
> نیستند نیز به ØÚ©Ù… آیه شری٠ه : " لا
> ینهاکم الله عن الذین لم یقاتلوکم ٠ی
> الدین و لم یخرجوکم من دیارکم ان تبروهم
> Ùˆ تقسطوا الیهم ان الله ÛŒØب المقسطین ".
> (سوره ممتØنه ØŒ آیه 8) Ùˆ ٠رمایش
> امیرالمومنین علیه السلام در نامه به
> مالک اشتر: "واشعر قلبک الرØمة للرعیة
> والمØبة لهم واللط٠بهم Ùˆ لا تکونن
> علیهم سبعا ضاریا تغتنم اکلهم ٠انهم
> صن٠ان : اما اخ لک ٠ی الدین او نظیر لک ٠ی
> الخلق " (نهج البلاغة، نامه 53) باید Øقوق
> انسانی آنان رعایت شود.
> Øقوق شهروندی نیز یک واژه Ú©Ù„ÛŒ است Ùˆ Øدود
> آن باید بر اساس عر٠و قانون اساسی مورد
> پذیرش اکثریت مردم مشخص شود. البته اگر
> کسانی در صدد دشمنی با مردم کشور برآیند
> و با دشمنان خارجی همکاری نمایند و
> همکاری آنان مطابق قوانین کشور برای
> دادگاه ØµØ§Ù„Ø Ø«Ø§Ø¨Øª شود باید طبق قانون
> مجازات شوند. و شهروندی آنان مانع از
> اجراء قانون نمی شود. و لازم است مراقبت
> شود جوانان کشور گر٠تار تبلیغات سوء
> آنان نشوند، و اگر معامله و معاشرت با
> آنان موجب تقویت آنان شود لازم است از آن
> اجتناب گردد. ان شاء الله مو٠ق باشید.
> 1387/3/25
>
> -
>
> This episode should give pause for reflection to any sincere and
> conscientious person. In order to deflect attention from malfeasances
> they themselves have created all over the place, with a straight face
> and without the least compunction, they lie about abusive anti-Islamic
> letters they themselves have spawned against defenseless expatriate
> eighty-five year old men who read poetry on local cable channel, and
> then in the height of mindboggling arrogance they take it upon
> themselves to manufacture purely fictional stories based on
> ‘marginal’ facts and in the most ‘marginal’ of outlets of the
> Western press, while pretending it is a major story. They lie and they
> lie and they lie and they lie and they lie some more and then lie
> again …. An organization which will stoop to this level of deceit,
> obfuscation, lying, unbelievable sleaze and misdirection cannot be
> trusted regarding anything it says at any time anywhere, whether in
> the past, the present or the future. Episodes such as this should
> finally begin proving to those still not convinved regarding what we
> Bayanis have been stating all along for years about these so-and-sos,
> especially as it pertains to their deliberate tampering, doctoring and
> totally deliberate whitewash of Babi history and texts.
>
> Luckily Montazeri’s site is not wikipedia whereby Bahaim editors can
> gratuitously manipulate and erase messages and discussions they
> don’t like.
>
> Jeffrey, this here is pure gold! Use it, and
> Attachment decoded: untitled-1.txt
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
> Is montazeri the same sag arab mullah who used to hang cats?
tortured animals. W
>
> read more »
Deev
"Terrorist-Mullahs-Must-Die" <Marg-Bar-Jom...@Iran.com> wrote in
message news:Xns9AC1DD2C24149Ma...@194.177.96.78...
> Is montazeri the same sag arab mullah who used to hang cats?
>
>
>
> áĮ Įáå ĮáĮ Įááå ÍÞĮð ÍÞĮð <wahid...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:627b1cd6-d4d8-4e45...@i36g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
>
>> Many thanks to Pacifist (may the Godhead be pleased with him, protect
>> him and grant him success) for posting the link below. This finally
>> demonstrates my case beyond any reasonable doubt and to a moral
>> certainty proving that the version of Montazeriâ?Ts opinion diffused
>> by the Haifan Bahaim to the Western media is tout court fraudulent and
>> interpolatively manufactured. As an aside, ironically enough, the tone
>> of this missive is precisely the sort of bullshit the uhj regularly
>> sends out when encouraging someone to be shunned. If the Haifan Bahaim
>> are happy with this in its original format, the Lord of All-Creation
>> help them, because they will need it! Ayatollah Montazeri is
>> definitely no friend of theirs. Yet given this, with utmost arrogance
>> and in the height of all dishonesty and sleaze, the Haifan Bahaim have
>> taken two completely different missives, manipulatively cut, pasted
>> and cobbled sections together (like they do in other settings as
>> well), changed dates around (in other words, â?~DOCTOREDâ?T a specious
>> fatwa) and offered it to the world press as â?~theâ?T fatwa issued by
>> the dissident Iranian cleric advocating for their â?~specialâ?T rights
>> in Iran. He is not doing anything of the sort whatsoever. He is
>> articulating the general principle of â?~rightsâ?T under the Qurâ?Tan
>> regarding those who are, contextually speaking, non-combatants as well
>> a letter of the First Shiâ?Tite Imam (as) that qualifies what such
>> rights would entail as applying to non-Muslims. Later Montazeri quite
>> specifically instances exceptions to this rule where â?osuch
>> personsâ? are pursuing a path of enmity against the people of Iran.
>> Given this, those like Ian Kluge or the Hayat-i-Yaran and the Bahaim
>> AO in entirety, would specifically fall under the â?~enemies of the
>> nationâ?T rubric, and so prosecuted by the rights of the nation they
>> are seeking to exploit given their active â?~association with the
>> enemies of the nationâ?T (viz. the governments and intelligence
>> establishments of the states of Israel and the United States). At the
>> beginning he is deliberate in showing his opinion of Bahaism: he calls
>> it a misled cult (firqe-ye zale). In essence, therefore, Montazeri is
>> arguing no different than what the present regime is saying itself
>> about the Haifan Bahaim organization. So much for this being a fatwa
>> issued in their favor. Here is the link from Montazeriâ?Ts site
>> Pacifist put up:
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/55b9tp
>>
>> And here below, finally, is what Montazeri actually said IN FULL on
>> the date originally attributed to him by the ___Haifan Bahaim doctored
>> fatwa___ (my technical translation follows below):
>>
>> --
>>
>> In His Name, the Most High!
>>
>> With salutations and blessings. The opinion of this person (nazar-i-
>> een jenab) regarding the misled cult of Bahaism (firqe-ye zale-ye
>> bahaâ?Tiye) is the same opinion as the one held during the years
>> before the Revolution, and so has not changed. However [the case of]
>> those who in most cases are not followers of any of the religions sent
>> by heaven (adyan-i-asimani) [i.e. Zoroastrianism, Judaism,
>> Christianity and Islam] are referable to the ruling wisdom of the
>> illustrious verse, â?oAllah forbideth thee from dealing unkindly and
>> unjustly with those who do not fight against thee in the faith nor are
>> ones driving thee out of thy homes, for Allah loveth those who are
>> justâ? (Qurâ?Tan. 60:8); as well as per the letter of the Commander
>> of the Faithful [â?~Ali] to Malik Ashtar, â?oYou must kindle in thy
>> heart kindness, compassion and love for thy subjects. Do not behave
>> towards them as if you are a voracious and ravenous beast and as if
>> your success lies in devouring themâ?Ķ they are brothers to you, and
>> those who have a religion [other than yours], they are human beings
>> like you (The Peak of Eloquence/Nahjuâ?Tl-Balagha, Letter 53). [As
>> such] their human rights should be respected.
>> [Now] citizenship rights are also in one particular respect universal
>> and its limits should [therefore] be specified in that respect on the
>> basis of the customary [â?~orâ?T canon] law (â?~urfi) and the
>> Constitution [of the Islamic Republic] by the [will of the] majority
>> of the people. However if certain persons are [determined in] pursuing
>> [the path of] enmity against the people of the nation and are abetting
>> foreign enemies, and if their association [with these foreign enemies]
>> be established for the court(s) pursuant to the laws of the nation,
>> they should be punished according to the law(s). Their citizenship
>> [rights] (shahrvandi-i-anan) does not impede [or â?~obstructâ?T] the
>> body of the law [to act] (maniâ?T az ajzaâ?T-i-qanun nemishavad].
>> [Yet] it is also necessary that precautions be taken (lazim ast
>> morraqibat shavad) so that the youth of the nation (javanan-i-keshvar)
>> do not become embroiled in their evil propaganda
>> (tablighat-i-suâ?T-i-anan); and if such dealings and association with
>> them will only give cause to their [cultivation and] strength
>> (muâ?Tamileh va muâ?Tasherat mujib-i-taghviyat- i-anan shavad), it is
>> essential to disassociate from [â?~orâ?T shun] them (lazim ast az an
>> ijtinab gardad).
>>
>> God willing, may your success be assured!
>> 1387/3/25
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> And the original Persian text:
>>
>> ØĻØģŲ.Ų? ØŠØđاŲ"ÛO
>> ØĻا ØģŲ"اŲ. Ų^ ØŠØÛOØŠ
>> Ų?ØļØą اÛOŲ? ؎اŲ?ØĻ ØŊØą Ų.Ų^ØąØŊ Ų ØąŲ,Ų? ØķاŲ"Ų? ØĻŲ?اØĶÛOŲ?
>> Ų?Ų.اŲ? Ų?ØļØą ØģاŲ"Ų?اÛO Ų,ØĻŲ" اØē اŲ?Ų,Ų"اØĻ اØģØŠ Ų^
>> ØŠØšÛOÛOØąÛO Ų?ÚĐØąØŊŲ? اØģØŠ . Ų^Ų"ÛO ØĻŲ? Ø·Ų^Øą ÚĐŲ"ÛO
>> اŲ ØąØ§ØŊÛO ÚĐŲ? ؊اØĻØđ Ų?ÛOÚ? ÛOÚĐ Ø§Øē اØŊÛOاŲ? ØĒØģŲ.اŲ?ÛO
>> Ų?ÛOØģØŠŲ?ØŊ Ų?ÛOØē ØĻŲ? ØÚĐŲ. ØĒÛOŲ? ØīØąÛOŲ Ų? : " Ų"ا
>> ÛOŲ?Ų?اÚĐŲ. اŲ"Ų"Ų? ØđŲ? اŲ"Ø°ÛOŲ? Ų"Ų. ÛOŲ,ا؊Ų"Ų^ÚĐŲ. Ų ÛO
>> اŲ"ØŊÛOŲ? Ų^ Ų"Ų. ÛOØŪØąØŽŲ^ÚĐŲ. Ų.Ų? ØŊÛOØ§ØąÚĐŲ. اŲ? ØŠØĻØąŲ^Ų?Ų.
>> Ų^ ØŠŲ,ØģØ·Ų^ا اŲ"ÛOŲ?Ų. اŲ? اŲ"Ų"Ų? ÛOØØĻ اŲ"Ų.Ų,ØģØ·ÛOŲ? ".
>> (ØģŲ^ØąŲ? Ų.Ų.ØŠØŲ?Ų? ØO ØĒÛOŲ? 8) Ų^ Ų ØąŲ.اÛOØī
>> اŲ.ÛOØąØ§Ų"Ų.Ų^Ų.Ų?ÛOŲ? ØđŲ"ÛOŲ? اŲ"ØģŲ"اŲ. ØŊØą Ų?اŲ.Ų? ØĻŲ?
>> Ų.اŲ"ÚĐ Ø§ØīØŠØą: "Ų^اØīØđØą Ų,Ų"ØĻÚĐ Ø§Ų"ØąØŲ.ØĐ Ų"Ų"ØąØđÛOØĐ
>> Ų^اŲ"Ų.ØØĻØĐ Ų"Ų?Ų. Ų^اŲ"Ų"Ø·Ų ØĻŲ?Ų. Ų^ Ų"ا ØŠÚĐŲ^Ų?Ų?
>> ØđŲ"ÛOŲ?Ų. ØģØĻØđا ØķØ§ØąÛOا ؊ؚ؊Ų?Ų. اÚĐŲ"Ų?Ų. Ų اŲ?Ų?Ų.
>> ØĩŲ?Ų اŲ? : اŲ.ا اØŪ Ų"ÚĐ Ų ÛO اŲ"ØŊÛOŲ? اŲ^ Ų?ØļÛOØą Ų"ÚĐ Ų ÛO
>> اŲ"ØŪŲ"Ų, " (Ų?Ų?ØŽ اŲ"ØĻŲ"اؚØĐØO Ų?اŲ.Ų? 53) ØĻاÛOØŊ ØŲ,Ų^Ų,
>> اŲ?ØģاŲ?ÛO ØĒŲ?اŲ? ØąØđاÛOØŠ ØīŲ^ØŊ.
>> ØŲ,Ų^Ų, ØīŲ?ØąŲ^Ų?ØŊÛO Ų?ÛOØē ÛOÚĐ Ų^اÚ~Ų? ÚĐŲ"ÛO اØģØŠ Ų^ ØØŊŲ^ØŊ
>> ØĒŲ? ØĻاÛOØŊ ØĻØą اØģاØģ ØđØąŲ Ų^ Ų,اŲ?Ų^Ų? اØģاØģÛO Ų.Ų^ØąØŊ
>> ŲūØ°ÛOØąØī اÚĐØŦØąÛOØŠ Ų.ØąØŊŲ. Ų.ØīØŪØĩ ØīŲ^ØŊ. اŲ"ØĻØŠŲ? اÚŊØą
>> ÚĐØģاŲ?ÛO ØŊØą ØĩØŊØŊ ØŊØīŲ.Ų?ÛO ØĻا Ų.ØąØŊŲ. ÚĐØīŲ^Øą ØĻØąØĒÛOŲ?ØŊ
>> Ų^ ØĻا ØŊØīŲ.Ų?اŲ? ØŪØ§ØąØŽÛO Ų?Ų.ÚĐØ§ØąÛO Ų?Ų.اÛOŲ?ØŊ Ų^
>> Ų?Ų.ÚĐØ§ØąÛO ØĒŲ?اŲ? Ų.طاØĻŲ, Ų,Ų^اŲ?ÛOŲ? ÚĐØīŲ^Øą ØĻØąØ§ÛO
>> ØŊاØŊÚŊاŲ? ØĩاŲ"Ø ØŦاØĻØŠ ØīŲ^ØŊ ØĻاÛOØŊ Ø·ØĻŲ, Ų,اŲ?Ų^Ų?
>> Ų.؎اØēا؊ ØīŲ^Ų?ØŊ. Ų^ ØīŲ?ØąŲ^Ų?ØŊÛO ØĒŲ?اŲ? Ų.اŲ?Øđ اØē
>> Ø§ØŽØąØ§ØĄ Ų,اŲ?Ų^Ų? Ų?Ų.ÛO ØīŲ^ØŊ. Ų^ Ų"اØēŲ. اØģØŠ Ų.ØąØ§Ų,ØĻØŠ
>> ØīŲ^ØŊ ØŽŲ^اŲ?اŲ? ÚĐØīŲ^Øą ÚŊØąŲ ØŠØ§Øą ØŠØĻŲ"ÛOؚا؊ ØģŲ^ØĄ
>> ØĒŲ?اŲ? Ų?ØīŲ^Ų?ØŊØO Ų^ اÚŊØą Ų.ØđاŲ.Ų"Ų? Ų^ Ų.ØđاØīØąØŠ ØĻا
>> ØĒŲ?اŲ? Ų.Ų^ØŽØĻ ØŠŲ,Ų^ÛOØŠ ØĒŲ?اŲ? ØīŲ^ØŊ Ų"اØēŲ. اØģØŠ اØē ØĒŲ?
>> ا؎؊Ų?اØĻ ÚŊØąØŊØŊ. اŲ? ØīØ§ØĄ اŲ"Ų"Ų? Ų.Ų^Ų Ų, ØĻاØīÛOØŊ.
>> 1387/3/25
>>
>> -
>>
>> This episode should give pause for reflection to any sincere and
>> conscientious person. In order to deflect attention from malfeasances
>> they themselves have created all over the place, with a straight face
>> and without the least compunction, they lie about abusive anti-Islamic
>> letters they themselves have spawned against defenseless expatriate
>> eighty-five year old men who read poetry on local cable channel, and
>> then in the height of mindboggling arrogance they take it upon
>> themselves to manufacture purely fictional stories based on
>> â?~marginalâ?T facts and in the most â?~marginalâ?T of outlets of the
>> Western press, while pretending it is a major story. They lie and they
>> lie and they lie and they lie and they lie some more and then lie
>> again â?Ķ. An organization which will stoop to this level of deceit,
>> obfuscation, lying, unbelievable sleaze and misdirection cannot be
>> trusted regarding anything it says at any time anywhere, whether in
>> the past, the present or the future. Episodes such as this should
>> finally begin proving to those still not convinved regarding what we
>> Bayanis have been stating all along for years about these so-and-sos,
>> especially as it pertains to their deliberate tampering, doctoring and
>> totally deliberate whitewash of Babi history and texts.
>>
>> Luckily Montazeriâ?Ts site is not wikipedia whereby Bahaim editors can
>> gratuitously manipulate and erase messages and discussions they
>> donâ?Tt like.
Deev
I want to thank all those who with their writings against the Bahai's have
helped promote the Bahai Faith.Keep up the great work.
"Deev" <farid4...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6Rk6k.12591$kx.5140@pd7urf3no...
Seon Ferguson
> http://bp1.blogger.com/_JovTlI-2GxM/SFhCPdqmvCI/AAAAAAAABbc/BI6L6q6qx9A/s1600-h/al+ahram+weekly+12-6-2008_edited-1.jpg
>
> I want to thank all those who with their writings against the Bahai's have
> helped promote the Bahai Faith.Keep up the great work.
>
would have read a single Harry Potter book if it wasnt for the controversy.
I think anti bahai people are just trying to distract us from the Zionists.
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
> http://bp1.blogger.com/_JovTlI-2GxM/SFhCPdqmvCI/AAAAAAAABbc/BI6L6q6qx...
>
> I want to thank all those who with their writings against the Bahai's have
> helped promote the Bahai Faith.Keep up the great work.
And how might that be? Even dissident Ayatollahs who one week you hail
in the Western media as your friends turn out to be quite weary of you
cultists when they learn you attribute things to them they never said.
Believe me, when push comes to shove, your promotion is a negative one
all the way.
W
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
> helped promote the Bahai Faith.Keep up the great work.
>
> Its a bit like the Christains who tried to get harry Potter banned. i never
> would have read a single Harry Potter book if it wasnt for the controversy.
> I think anti bahai people are just trying to distract us from the Zionists.
There is no difference between the Zionists and the Haifan Bahai
organization. The Zionists own them.
W
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
> http://bp1.blogger.com/_JovTlI-2GxM/SFhCPdqmvCI/AAAAAAAABbc/BI6L6q6qx...
>
> helped promote the Bahai Faith.Keep up the great work.
And, O, Demon/Deev, there's an ancient Chinese saying, that to kill a
rat first you must draw him out. Consider the promotion your cult has
been receiving lately in that light.
W
Viv
wrote:
>
> There is no difference between the Zionists and the Haifan Bahai
> organization. The Zionists own them.
>
> W
That's this month's fantasy Seon. Of course in the past Nima has also
alleged things the other way round - that it was the Baha'is who were
controlling the Zionists, but the Jews were too stupid to realise
that.
He makes it up as he goes along - and don't be fooled, he doesn't
believe a word of it, it's just the game he plays as a substitute for
having a life.
Jeffrey
If I am perceiving this correctly, the AO-holes are running to the
media with a story that the Iranian clergy are advocating suspension
of human rights for the Baha'is in that country. The Ayatollah
Montazeri's actual statements are that the Baha'is are a misled and
false religion but that those Baha'is who do not oppose the country or
Islam are to have basic human rights even though they are infidels.
But those Baha'is who are working against Iran and Islam by conspiring
with Israel and the U.S. are to be "shunned" and I assume to lose
their human rights. But it sounds like Ayatollah Montazeri has
decided that Baha'is are to be shunned (not because of their false
religion but because of their conspiracy against the government).
So the AO-holes are somewhat correct in that Ayatollah Montazeri is
advocating the suspension of their rights?
And where does all this shunning crap come from? Is this some sick
disease of Iranian origin or what? Who the hell is Ayatollah
Montazeri to tell anyone to shun anyone? Just like the AO-holes, it
is nonsense pure and simple. Everyone should think for themselves.
Nobody should be deprived of their rights without basic due process of
law, and the presentation of factual evidence that a crime has been
committed.
I think Ayatollah Montazeri and the bogus UHJ were made for each
other.
Jeffrey
Shahriar
"?? ??? ??? ???? ???? ????" <wahid...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:413d9fc6-a683-44cf...@h1g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
bring forth evidence that Bahais hailed Montazery as their friends. though
your twisted mind is incapable of grasping the significance of such fatwa
but for others to know:
It has been widely held belief by shii clergy and their followers that
taking lives, wives and properties of Bahais is lawful for a Muslim
believer; not only lawful but also would facilitate their journey to haven.
The significance of such fatwa comes to light when a person of such
magnitude, in Iranian religious circle, has categorically dismissed such
wiled held belief and has attested to the civilian rights of such, so to
speak, infidels. Now those who may have had been kin to the previous view
may come to understanding that after all these years these people may have
had the right to live, marry, go to school, get a job, or conduct a
business. Notwithstanding, according to the international law, left alone
IRI law, every person who conspires with/without any foreign entity against
the security of its own country shall be punished by the law of the land,
regardless of weather the conspirer is Bahai, Moslem or else. based on this
fatwa, even if they press that, as they perceive, Bahai leadership in Iran
is collaborating with Zionist or whatever, they cannot apply this to all
Bahais. Bahais in general must have their civilian rights restored, and now
cannot be set on fire, shot in the head, cut to pieces ... etc. just for
being Bahai. Mr. Montazery also says, if they do things against the country
they must be dealt with according to the law, proof should be brought forth
when accused is charged.
Akbar Ganji article:
The right of being Baha'i vs. being Baha'i with rights
Bahai youth in Shiraz prison: http://news.bahai.org/story/602
Deev
refused.
Talking to him is a waste of time. I have put him on my kill file for some
time now, but I see through new posters that he has not given up his
hallucinations.
My offer is still open.Maybe you can pass it on to him.
"Shahriar" <frei...@hotml.but> wrote in message
news:g3e8nf$6it$1...@aioe.org...
Seon Ferguson
all the Vadican or all the Jews are distracting us from what's really going
on.
"Viv" <viv_ja...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:60809f1d-da24-4d91...@26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
Seon Ferguson
want America and have the power to make America invade Iran. It is they who
convinced America to enter ww1 so Brittian would sign the balfour
decleration (even though the war was ending) the Bahai's didnt do any of
that. If the Bahai's are guilty of anything its sucking up to Israel so
Israel will allow there HQ to stay in Israel.
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
> Nima is certified crazy, I offered to pay for his medical visits, but he
> refused.
If I am certified, you can proffer a medical certificate to that end
proving your assertion. Since you are a proven LIAR as well as a
convicted business fraud, your assertions of certification mean
diddly. Of course, if you believe otherwise, we can always resolve the
matter in a court of law.
That said, what is great, though, is how this Montazeri issue blew up
in your faces with a BANG!
W
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
> That's this month's fantasy Seon. Of course in the past Nima has also
> alleged things the other way round - that it was the Baha'is who were
> controlling the Zionists, but the Jews were too stupid to realise
> that.
Many thanks to Pacifist (may the Godhead be pleased with him, protect
him and grant him success) for posting the link below. This finally
demonstrates my case beyond any reasonable doubt and to a moral
interpolatively manufactured. As an aside, ironically enough, the tone
of this missive is precisely the sort of bullshit the uhj regularly
sends out when encouraging someone to be shunned. If the Haifan Bahaim
are happy with this in its original format, the Lord of All-Creation
help them, because they will need it! Ayatollah Montazeri is
definitely no friend of theirs. Yet given this, with utmost arrogance
and in the height of all dishonesty and sleaze, the Haifan Bahaim have
taken two completely different missives, manipulatively cut, pasted
and cobbled sections together (like they do in other settings as
fatwa) and offered it to the world press as ‘the’ fatwa issued by the
dissident Iranian cleric advocating for their ‘special’ rights in
those like Ian Kluge or the Hayat-i-Yaran and the Bahaim AO in
nation’ (viz. the governments and intelligence establishments of the
deliberate in showing his opinion of Bahaism: he calls it a misled
cult (firqe-ye zale). In essence, therefore, Montazeri is arguing no
different than what the present regime is saying itself about the
Haifan Bahaim organization. So much for this being a fatwa issued in
http://tinyurl.com/55b9tp
And here below, finally, is what Montazeri actually said IN FULL on
the date originally attributed to him by the ___Haifan Bahaim doctored
fatwa___ (my technical translation follows below):
--
In His Name, the Most High!
With salutations and blessings. The opinion of this person (nazar-i-
een jenab) regarding the misled cult of Bahaism (firqe-ye zale-ye
who in most cases are not followers of any of the religions sent by
heaven (adyan-i-asimani) [i.e. Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity
and Islam] are referable to the ruling wisdom of the illustrious
you are a voracious and ravenous beast and as if your success lies in
[Now] citizenship rights are also in one particular respect universal
and its limits should [therefore] be specified in that respect on the
people. However if certain persons are [determined in] pursuing [the
path of] enmity against the people of the nation and are abetting
foreign enemies, and if their association [with these foreign enemies]
be established for the court(s) pursuant to the laws of the nation,
they should be punished according to the law(s). Their citizenship
of the law [to act] (mani’ az ajza’-i-qanun nemishavad]. [Yet] it is
so that the youth of the nation (javanan-i-keshvar) do not become
i-anan shavad), it is essential to disassociate from [‘or’ shun] them
God willing, may your success be assured!
1387/3/25
--
And the original Persian text:
با سلام و تحیت
نظر این جانب در مورد فرقه ضاله بهائیه همان نظر سالهای قبل از انقلاب
است و تغییری نکرده است . ولی به طور کلی افرادی که تابع هیچ یک از ادیان
آسمانی نیستند نیز به حکم آیه شریفه : " لا ینهاکم الله عن الذین لم
یقاتلوکم فی الدین و لم یخرجوکم من دیارکم ان تبروهم و تقسطوا الیهم ان
الله یحب المقسطین ". (سوره ممتحنه ، آیه 8) و فرمایش امیرالمومنین علیه
السلام در نامه به مالک اشتر: "واشعر قلبک الرحمة للرعیة والمحبة لهم
واللطف بهم و لا تکونن علیهم سبعا ضاریا تغتنم اکلهم فانهم صنفان : اما
اخ لک فی الدین او نظیر لک فی الخلق " (نهج البلاغة، نامه 53) باید حقوق
انسانی آنان رعایت شود.
حقوق شهروندی نیز یک واژه کلی است و حدود آن باید بر اساس عرف و قانون
اساسی مورد پذیرش اکثریت مردم مشخص شود. البته اگر کسانی در صدد دشمنی با
مردم کشور برآیند و با دشمنان خارجی همکاری نمایند و همکاری آنان مطابق
قوانین کشور برای دادگاه صالح ثابت شود باید طبق قانون مجازات شوند. و
شهروندی آنان مانع از اجراء قانون نمی شود. و لازم است مراقبت شود جوانان
کشور گرفتار تبلیغات سوء آنان نشوند، و اگر معامله و معاشرت با آنان موجب
تقویت آنان شود لازم است از آن اجتناب گردد.
ان شاء الله موفق باشید.
-
This episode should give pause for reflection to any sincere and
conscientious person. In order to deflect attention from malfeasances
they themselves have created all over the place, with a straight face
and without the least compunction, they lie about abusive anti-Islamic
letters they themselves have spawned against defenseless expatriate
eighty-five year old men who read poetry on local cable channel, and
then in the height of mindboggling arrogance they take it upon
facts and in the most ‘marginal’ of outlets of the Western press,
lying, unbelievable sleaze and misdirection cannot be trusted
regarding anything it says at any time anywhere, whether in the past,
the present or the future. Episodes such as this should finally begin
proving to those still not convinved regarding what we Bayanis have
been stating all along for years about these so-and-sos, especially as
it pertains to their deliberate tampering, doctoring and totally
deliberate whitewash of Babi history and texts.
gratuitously manipulate and erase messages and discussions they don’t
like.
Jeffrey, this here is pure gold! Use it, and use it well.
W
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
> bring forth evidence that Bahais hailed Montazery as their friends
With pleasure:
http://www.mideastyouth.com/2008/05/22/ayatollah-montazeri-proclaims-bahais-citizens-of-iran/
http://www.roozonline.com/english/archives/2008/05/ayatollah_montazeri_criticizes.html
>. though
> your twisted mind is incapable of grasping the significance of such fatwa
> but for others to know:
Like the significance of this fatwa, here, which says 180 degrees
different than what you LIARS were claiming he said:
In His Name, the Most High!
With salutations and blessings. The opinion of this person (nazar-i-
een jenab) regarding the misled cult of Bahaism (firqe-ye zale-ye
baha’iye) is the same opinion as the one held during the years before
the Revolution, and so has not changed. However [the case of] those
who in most cases are not followers of any of the religions sent by
heaven (adyan-i-asimani) [i.e. Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity
and Islam] are referable to the ruling wisdom of the illustrious
verse, “Allah forbideth thee from dealing unkindly and unjustly with
those who do not fight against thee in the faith nor are ones driving
thee out of thy homes, for Allah loveth those who are just” (Qur’an.
60:8); as well as per the letter of the Commander of the Faithful
[‘Ali] to Malik Ashtar, “You must kindle in thy heart kindness,
compassion and love for thy subjects. Do not behave towards them as if
you are a voracious and ravenous beast and as if your success lies in
devouring them… they are brothers to you, and those who have a
religion [other than yours], they are human beings like you (The Peak
of Eloquence/Nahju’l-Balagha, Letter 53). [As such] their human rights
should be respected.
[Now] citizenship rights are also in one particular respect universal
and its limits should [therefore] be specified in that respect on the
basis of the customary [‘or’ canon] law (‘urfi) and the Constitution
[of the Islamic Republic] by the [will of the] majority of the
people. However if certain persons are [determined in] pursuing [the
path of] enmity against the people of the nation and are abetting
foreign enemies, and if their association [with these foreign enemies]
be established for the court(s) pursuant to the laws of the nation,
they should be punished according to the law(s). Their citizenship
[rights] (shahrvandi-i-anan) does not impede [or ‘obstruct’] the body
of the law [to act] (mani’ az ajza’-i-qanun nemishavad]. [Yet] it is
also necessary that precautions be taken (lazim ast morraqibat shavad)
so that the youth of the nation (javanan-i-keshvar) do not become
embroiled in their evil propaganda (tablighat-i-su’-i-anan); and if
such dealings and association with them will only give cause to their
[cultivation and] strength (mu’amileh va mu’asherat mujib-i-taghviyat-
i-anan shavad), it is essential to disassociate from [‘or’ shun] them
(lazim ast az an ijtinab gardad).
God willing, may your success be assured!
1387/3/25
> Akbar Ganji article:
> The right of being Baha'i vs. being Baha'i with rights
> Bahai youth in Shiraz prison:http://news.bahai.org/story/602
Akbar Ganji is a proven opportunist and liar. This is the same man who
once was at the front lines of the militant ideological cadre of the
Islamic Republic, esp. during the 8 year war with Iran. All of a
sudden he has a change of heart overnight and is now kissing
everyone's ass with even a tad of opposition to the IRI. That said,
what Ganji has said versus what has been attributed to him saying are
also two different things, just like the Montazeri fatwa you FASCISTS
doctored and attributed to him, jumping up and down like freaks.
Luckily this has all blown up in your faces!
W
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
> I dont know if he's making it up but people who say its all the Bahai's or
> all the Vadican or all the Jews are distracting us from what's really going
> on.
Recall, even though you denied it at the time, that this below was
originally attributed to you.
BAHAIM Tactics
1. As far as possible they hold back from responding
2. Then they claim no knowledge [of the given issue] by feigning
ignorance
3. After the exposer has exposed they will try to divert to secondary
and totally peripheral and irrelevent side-issues
4. The exposer is then painted as someone with an axe to grind,
biased, deluded (while they, the bahaim, still have not responded to
the main issue exposed)
5. Next they relate mental instability and insanity to the exposer
[i.e. shoot the messenger]
6. Then, the last tactic, is to wheel out several dubious personas on
the scene who claim to be neutral non-bahai observers who then begin
attacking the exposer as well as the issue exposed and supporting the
bahais and their issues as so-called non-bahais
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
> Its the Israel lobby who are lobbying America to sanction Iran, its they who
> want America and have the power to make America invade Iran. It is they who
> convinced America to enter ww1 so Brittian would sign the balfour
> decleration (even though the war was ending) the Bahai's didnt do any of
> that. If the Bahai's are guilty of anything its sucking up to Israel so
> Israel will allow there HQ to stay in Israel.
You are playing stupid and misdirecting. Zionist lobby of today is a
different political entity than that of 1917. The Haifan Bahaim
organization is lock step with their agenda. If this is not so, pray
tell, something very simple which will reveal this case, why has there
never been a single official condemnation by the Haifan Bahaim
organization over the plight of the Palestinians and their human
rights violations perpetrated against them by the Israeli state -
ever?
W
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > There is no difference between the Zionists and the Haifan Bahai
> > organization. The Zionists own them.
>
> > W
>
> That's this month's fantasy Seon.
Not quite:
Bahais in My Backyard:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2877478116441126906&hl=en-AU
BAHAIM Tactics & Techniques
1. As far as possible they hold back from responding
2. Then they claim no knowledge [of the given issue] by feigning
ignorance
3. After the exposer has exposed they will try to divert to secondary
and totally peripheral and irrelevent side-issues
4. The exposer is then painted as someone with an axe to grind,
biased, deluded (while they, the bahaim, still have not responded to
the main issue exposed)
5. Next they relate mental instability and insanity to the exposer
[i.e. shoot the messenger]
6. Then, the last tactic, is to wheel out several dubious personas on
the scene who claim to be neutral non-bahai observers who then begin
attacking the exposer as well as the issue exposed and supporting the
bahais and their issues as so-called non-bahais
The BAHAIM Technique
Caution - THE BAHAI TECHNIQUE
"Slanderous Vilification" = The Baha'i Technique - Ad Hominem, Libel,
Slander, Demonize, Scapegoat, Ostracize, Shun, Banish, Backbite,
Defame, Vilify, Discredit, Smear, Revile, Suppress, Attack, Bully,
Intimidate, Threaten, Malign, Blackball, Deceive, Coerce, Silence,
Harass... etc., etc.... CAUTION NON-BAHAIS
Seon Ferguson
> On Jun 20, 10:57 am, "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I dont know if he's making it up but people who say its all the Bahai's
>> or
>> all the Vadican or all the Jews are distracting us from what's really
>> going
>> on.
>
> Recall, even though you denied it at the time, that this below was
> originally attributed to you.
>
they paying you?
Seon Ferguson
Because they know if they speak out Israel wont let there HQ be in Israel so
they come up with this convenient "hafain's don't get into politics" stance.
They are indeed corrupt but what you are doing is trying to distract
everyone from the Zionists who have control over America's foreign policy.
Your like the people who say its just the Jews or its just the Vatican. It
is the Zionist globalists and by saying that I am working for them proves
that you are just a Zionist shill trying to discredit people like me who's
peak out against Israel and Zionism. Your tactics don't work, anyone who
actually believes I would work for those evil scum bags is a idiot or a liar
and while I still have your attention no one here believes your lies about
me being a Hafain. If I am wrong then I invite whoever believes the might W
to tell me I'm wrong.
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
> "?? ??? ??? ???? ???? ????" <wahidaza...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:ab70698b-afcb-4495...@h1g2000prh.googlegroups.com...> On Jun 20, 10:57 am, "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> I dont know if he's making it up but people who say its all the Bahai's
> >> or
> >> all the Vadican or all the Jews are distracting us from what's really
> >> going
> >> on.
>
> > Recall, even though you denied it at the time, that this below was
> > originally attributed to you.
>
> Yep I should have known. Your just a typical Zionist shill. How much are
> they paying you?
I am not a Bahai denying being one. The Zionist shill is all you,
buddy.
Bahais in My Backyard:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2877478116441126906&hl=en-AU
BAHAIM Tactics & Techniques
1. As far as possible they hold back from responding
2. Then they claim no knowledge [of the given issue] by feigning
ignorance
3. After the exposer has exposed they will try to divert to secondary
and totally peripheral and irrelevent side-issues
4. The exposer is then painted as someone with an axe to grind,
biased, deluded (while they, the bahaim, still have not responded to
the main issue exposed)
5. Next they relate mental instability and insanity to the exposer
[i.e. shoot the messenger]
6. Then, the last tactic, is to wheel out several dubious personas on
the scene who claim to be neutral non-bahai observers who then begin
attacking the exposer as well as the issue exposed and supporting the
bahais and their issues as so-called non-bahais
The BAHAIM Technique
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
> "?? ??? ??? ???? ???? ????" <wahidaza...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:1d83a89c-7d8c-46c3...@s33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Jun 20, 10:56 am, "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Its the Israel lobby who are lobbying America to sanction Iran, its they
> >> who
> >> want America and have the power to make America invade Iran. It is they
> >> who
> >> convinced America to enter ww1 so Brittian would sign the balfour
> >> decleration (even though the war was ending) the Bahai's didnt do any of
> >> that. If the Bahai's are guilty of anything its sucking up to Israel so
> >> Israel will allow there HQ to stay in Israel.
>
> > You are playing stupid and misdirecting. Zionist lobby of today is a
> > different political entity than that of 1917. The Haifan Bahaim
> > organization is lock step with their agenda. If this is not so, pray
> > tell, something very simple which will reveal this case, why has there
> > never been a single official condemnation by the Haifan Bahaim
> > organization over the plight of the Palestinians and their human
> > rights violations perpetrated against them by the Israeli state -
> > ever?
>
> > W
>
> Because they know if they speak out Israel wont let there HQ be in Israel so
> they come up with this convenient "hafain's don't get into politics" stance.
Exactly, because they don't bite the hand of the master who feeds
them. But it is also gratuitous, self-serving BS, this especially when
other communities in Israel, such as the Druze, the Arab Christian
churches, countless Muslims as well as many Jews themselves have
spoken out against Israeli state sponsored terror against the
indigenous Palestinian population.
> They are indeed corrupt but what you are doing is trying to distract
> everyone from the Zionists who have control over America's foreign policy.
Dear idiot, the Haifan Bahaim organization is an active arm and
tentacle of global Zionist foreign policy, whether in the US or
elsewhere. This is not distracting. This is tackling the Beast head-
on! And I thought you said you were an Australian? What do you care
about America if you live here??
> Your like the people who say its just the Jews or its just the Vatican.
No, I am most certainly not. I am one of those people who say that the
tentacles of the Beast are multi-pronged, and the Haifan Bahaim are
one of its proximate tentacles.
> It
> is the Zionist globalists and by saying that I am working for them proves
> that you are just a Zionist shill trying to discredit people like me who's
> peak out against Israel and Zionism.
You are an unabashed Baha'o-phile that deliberately misdirects and
flip-flops whenever he is pinned down on his gaping inconsistencies.
It is indeed a tactic of pro-Zionists and their various agents to
pretend to be something else. Your mask to me is transparent, as your
true loyalties, and I have no doubt anymore that you are working for
the Bahaim pro-Zionist Beast.
> Your tactics don't work,
Speak for yourself.
BAHAIM Tactics
Seon Ferguson
> On Jun 20, 11:52 am, "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "?? ??? ??? ???? ???? ????" <wahidaza...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> messagenews:ab70698b-afcb-4495...@h1g2000prh.googlegroups.com...>
>> On Jun 20, 10:57 am, "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> I dont know if he's making it up but people who say its all the
>> >> Bahai's
>> >> or
>> >> all the Vadican or all the Jews are distracting us from what's really
>> >> going
>> >> on.
>>
>> > Recall, even though you denied it at the time, that this below was
>> > originally attributed to you.
>>
>> Yep I should have known. Your just a typical Zionist shill. How much are
>> they paying you?
>
> I am not a Bahai denying being one. The Zionist shill is all you,
> buddy.
>
cover for the Zionist crimes by calming they were done by bahais.
Seon Ferguson
real fear Jews will use them speaking out as an excuse to dispell them. Or
mmaybe they really believe in that Zionisim crap.
>> They are indeed corrupt but what you are doing is trying to distract
>> everyone from the Zionists who have control over America's foreign
>> policy.
>
> Dear idiot, the Haifan Bahaim organization is an active arm and
> tentacle of global Zionist foreign policy, whether in the US or
> elsewhere. This is not distracting. This is tackling the Beast head-
> on! And I thought you said you were an Australian? What do you care
> about America if you live here??
>
You werent calling me a idiot a few weeks ago. American foreign policy is
decided by the Israel lobby and other various lobbyists. If you have
evidence that proves the hafains control it as well please prove it.
I care about American politics because I watch American TV and listen to
Alex Jones and coast to coast am. Appart from that if the Zionist controlled
America invades any more countries that will take us closer to world war 3
and that is something I have a right to be concerned about. Your welcome to
look at my Australian passport on my webcam.
>> Your like the people who say its just the Jews or its just the Vatican.
>
> No, I am most certainly not. I am one of those people who say that the
> tentacles of the Beast are multi-pronged, and the Haifan Bahaim are
> one of its proximate tentacles.
>
Every time I bring up the Israel lobby or Zionist globalists you always
change the topic to bahai's. I am not concerned about some Religion that
sucks up to the Israel lobby. I am concerned about the Beast.
>> It
>> is the Zionist globalists and by saying that I am working for them proves
>> that you are just a Zionist shill trying to discredit people like me
>> who's
>> peak out against Israel and Zionism.
>
> You are an unabashed Baha'o-phile that deliberately misdirects and
> flip-flops whenever he is pinned down on his gaping inconsistencies.
> It is indeed a tactic of pro-Zionists and their various agents to
> pretend to be something else. Your mask to me is transparent, as your
> true loyalties, and I have no doubt anymore that you are working for
> the Bahaim pro-Zionist Beast.
>
Only a Zionist shill would say something idiotic like that to distract
people and try to discredit someone who is genually speaking out against the
Zionist's. So fuck you you Zionazi peace of crap.
>> Your tactics don't work,
>
> Speak for yourself.
>
Your Zionazi scum.
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
> I am not sure what to make of this.
It is AO-hole Twilight Zone paradigm in action, all the way.
> If I am perceiving this correctly, the AO-holes are running to the
> media with a story that the Iranian clergy are advocating suspension
> of human rights for the Baha'is in that country.
Yes, but which is also false. The AO-holes have run to the media
claiming that Ayatollah Montazeri was advocating for their rights tout
court. They then doctored a fatwa by him, cutting, cobbling and
pasting sentences from existing posts on the forums section of his
site then presenting it to the Western media as his single, contiguous
opinion in their favor. Montazeri was appraised of the situation,
subtly repudiated the manner in which his missive was being
mispresented by the Haifan Bahaim, and so has now clarified his
opinion further, showing that he did not say what the Bahaim IT
committee originally attributed to him.
> The Ayatollah
> Montazeri's actual statements are that the Baha'is are a misled and
> false religion but that those Baha'is who do not oppose the country or
> Islam are to have basic human rights even though they are infidels.
Yep. But he has not used the term "infidel" (kafir) or apostate
(murtadd) anywhere in his message. He has designated them as a
religion not sent by heaven.
> But those Baha'is who are working against Iran and Islam by conspiring
> with Israel and the U.S. are to be "shunned" and I assume to lose
> their human rights.
It is a little more nuanced than that. Montazeri is saying that
average-joe, non AO affiliated Bahai ought to be left alone - which is
actually the case, they are largely being left alone. But that AO-
affiliate activist who actively is undermining the interests of the
state and public weal should be prosecuted. There is nothing in this
position that warrants a negative reaction. The ad hoc NSA of Iran,
i.e. the Ma'arif-cum-Hayat-i-Yaran, over the past several years has
overtly acted in capacities inimical to the interests of the Iranian
state. Should the shoe be turned on the other foot, your government
and courts would do exactly the same thing - as they have - to active
members of an organization which through various means have been
attempting to undermine the state. Your government and state regularly
prosecute and incarcerate individuals within organizations deemed its
enemies. The Haifan Bahaim organization is very much construed in Iran
as analogous to how al-Qaida or similar is perceived by your
government.
> But it sounds like Ayatollah Montazeri has
> decided that Baha'is are to be shunned (not because of their false
> religion but because of their conspiracy against the government).
Yes and no. Montazeri is saying that if the activities of the Haifan
Bahaim organization and members therein are attempting by commerce or
association with the average public to undermine the interests of the
public weal and the nation, then the people concerned and the
organization they represent must needs be dissociated from or shunned.
This is *exactly* what you yourselves regularly do in the West, and it
is especially a practice by virtually all the various Bahai
denominations across the board.
> So the AO-holes are somewhat correct in that Ayatollah Montazeri is
> advocating the suspension of their rights?
No, and they were saying the very opposite at first, i.e. that he was
advocating form them - not against them. Montazeri is not advocating
for the suspension of anyone's citizenship rights unless determined by
the law of the land and its courts. He is qualifying his statement
with the caveat that if these people are actively undermining the
nation by association with its enemies, or otherwise abeting them in
some way (which they have), then they needs be dissociated from (not
'killed' or 'incarcerated' but simply _keep your distance_). Note that
dissociation is a heck of a sight a better paradigm than the manner in
which your government incarcerated thousands of Japanese-Americans in
concentration camps during WWII. Also note that the very praxis of the
Bahai faith in all of its permutations has done precisely the same
thing with its deemed enemies and undesirables. Shoghi Effendi did it.
Abbas Effendi did it. The uhj does it, and as did your own guardian
with Brent Reed.
> And where does all this shunning crap come from? Is this some sick
> disease of Iranian origin or what?
Abrahamo-Jewish origin, actually.
> Who the hell is Ayatollah
> Montazeri to tell anyone to shun anyone?
A Grand Ayatollah and Source of Emulation, a one-time successor to
Khomeini considered the ideological father and spiritual voice of the
now disenfranchised religious reformists in Iran.
>Just like the AO-holes, it
> is nonsense pure and simple. Everyone should think for themselves.
> Nobody should be deprived of their rights without basic due process of
> law, and the presentation of factual evidence that a crime has been
> committed.
This is sort of what Montazeri is saying as well. What needs to be
bracketed is that certain Haifan Bahaim tied to the ad hoc NSA of
Iran, i.e. the Hayat-i-Yaran, have indeed acted in semi-espionage
capacities and have been caught red-handed doing so. Recall the
missionary fiasco in 2004-2005 whereby it was revealed that foreign
Bahai missionaries had been sent there by the ITC, possibly to
organize RUHI Institutes at Iranian university campuses. These people
were caught, arrested and thrown out of the country. I think Badi'
Villar could have been one of these people, since one of them was
stated to be from a South American country. Since that time all kinds
of other revelations have come out, esp. in the Persian blogosphere,
about what the Haifan Bahaim organization has been up to *inside* the
country. They were, for example, conducting RUHI Institutes under
various names inside Iranian University campuses, attempting thereby
to recruit. They were inserting themselves into various charity
activities, and instead of doing the actual charity work, were
actually using it as a front to recruit people or otherwise gather
information and intelligence. They set up front businesses in
Mazandaran province using local Jewish businessmen to buy and hoard
land near Nur and Takur, artificially shooting up property prices in
an area otherwise not known for exorbitant land prices. They were
conducting youth retreats, trying to recruit, with some eyebrow
raising events which transpired at these retreats in Isfahan and
elsewhere. Members of the Hayat-i-Yaran, such as its chairman Mr
Khanjani, were using their position to enrich themselves with various
shady brokered business deals that have international implications.
Accusations of sexual abuse still abound against Mr Khanjani, and
against Bahais no less, and on and on and on its goes....Clearly the
regime gave these people an inch in order and they took ten miles. As
of the presidency of Rafsanjani the Haifan Bahaim organization was
given and more and more leeway to organize and conduct devotional
activities amongst its community with the understanding that such
activities would be left unmolested by the organs of the state so long
as the Haifan Bahaim did not proselytize and their activities did not
in any shape or form seek to undermine the nation. With the accession
of Mohammad Khatami to the presidency, these people were given more
and more freedom to do as they wished. They abused the privilege - as
they had under the Shah as well - and abused it in such ways that left
the regime with no other choice but to act. Even still, the regime is
not going after average joe Bahai. The rank-and-file are presently
completely unmolested - and I challenge anyone to show otherwise. All
of the persons recently arrested are clearly people who were involved
at the very top or active middle management of the ad hoc Bahaim
administration in Iran, i.e. Tooraj Amini (a shameless propagandist
who acted in the capacity of face to the derelict, anti-Iranian voices
of Armin Eshraghi and Kavian Miliani who were attacking in the vilest
terms Iranian notables of the past and of recent times), the 6 members
of the Hayat-i-Yaran including Khanjani, etc. These people are
responsible for criminal activities as well as actions inimical to the
national security of Iran. Any regime in Iran, and not just the
present Islamic Republic, would do exactly same under a similar
situation. Your government has done the same thing, as would any other
government.
> I think Ayatollah Montazeri and the bogus UHJ were made for each
> other.
No doubt. Just note that Montazeri was supposed to succeed Khomeini as
his successor. Before Khomeini's death they had a political falling
out and he was renounced in his final will and testament. The dispute
had to do with some relative of Montazeri's getting embroiled in some
financial-cum-political controversy as well as Montazeri's apparent
squeamishness over the regime's execution of thousands of incarcerated
leftists at the conclusion of the Iran-Iraq war. That said, Montazeri
has been championed by certain reformists in the regime as their ad
hoc spiritual leader. However when his opinions are sifted, there is
only a tad bit of difference between his views and the clerics who
hold the reigns of power. But note, that in my opinion, and given
recent events, Montazeri has a point. The Haifan Bahaim organization's
presence inside Iran and outside of it is very much a fifth columnist
influence. They are tied to lobbyist groups in Washington who are
pushing the US into a embroilment with Iran and they have actively
advocated for preemptive military strike. The Haifan Bahaim networks
function as ad hoc hawalas organizing opposition (with certain
unsavory forces) against the Iranian state which can only be construed
under any context as treasonous.
Your government has done the same recently with those it has
determined to be 'enemy combatants'. Clearly the Haifan Bahaim are
acting in a similar, albeit less violent, capacity in Iran. Withal,
Montazeri's clarification is fairly balanced and to the point as well
as showing the gratuitous lengths the Bahaim are willing to go to to
self-aggrandize.
W
Viv
> I dont know if he's making it up but people who say its all the Bahai's or
> all the Vadican or all the Jews are distracting us from what's really going
> on.
> W
>
This is the defining moment, Seon, the moment when you dared to
disagree with Nima - and look what happened. Now he's denouncing you
as a Baha'i agent, just like he does with all his other former friends
(Dermod, Starr, William etc etc) that he's great friends with until
the fatat moment.
Viv.
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
> This is the defining moment, Seon, the moment when you dared to
> disagree with Nima - and look what happened. Now he's denouncing you
> as a Baha'i agent, just like he does with all his other former friends
> (Dermod, Starr, William etc etc) that he's great friends with until
> the fatat moment.
Of course it is a tried and true tactic of the Bahaim IT Committee to
wheel out dubious people passing themselves off as what they are not,
even having them agree with you, while misdirecting the whole time
until they are caught. If Viv-Palu wishes to look at the archives, a)
I accused Sean Furguson of being a Bahaim agent under cover almost two
years ago; 2) since I have never known or met Sean Furguson, ergo he
cannot have ever been my friend, let alone acquintance. Finally, since
the Haifan Bahaim have been publicly revealed as LIARS by me yet
again, they are desperately tripping over themselves to misdirect.
That said, consider Sean's statement to me in another context,
http://groups.google.com/group/aus.politics/browse_thread/thread/50badd82552ecd7f/6283be39fd4ca2c2
"Ok I'm taking this oppertunity to come out and admit to you that I am
a
Bahai sympathiser."
Case shut. Another Paul Hamond-I-am-not-a-Bahai identity revealed.
W
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2877478116441126906&hl=en-AU
BAHAIM Tactics & Techniques
1. As far as possible they hold back from responding
2. Then they claim no knowledge [of the given issue] by feigning
ignorance
3. After the exposer has exposed they will try to divert to secondary
and totally peripheral and irrelevent side-issues
4. The exposer is then painted as someone with an axe to grind,
biased, deluded (while they, the bahaim, still have not responded to
the main issue exposed)
5. Next they relate mental instability and insanity to the exposer
[i.e. shoot the messenger]
6. Then, the last tactic, is to wheel out several dubious personas on
the scene who claim to be neutral non-bahai observers who then begin
attacking the exposer as well as the issue exposed and supporting the
bahais and their issues as so-called non-bahais
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
Asparagus
> Dear Jeffrey,
>
>> I am not sure what to make of this.
>
> It is AO-hole Twilight Zone paradigm in action, all the way.
>
>> If I am perceiving this correctly, the AO-holes are running to the
>> media with a story that the Iranian clergy are advocating suspension
>> of human rights for the Baha'is in that country.
>
> Yes, but which is also false. The AO-holes have run to the media
> claiming that Ayatollah Montazeri was advocating for their rights tout
> court. They then doctored a fatwa by him, cutting, cobbling and
> pasting sentences from existing posts on the forums section of his
> site then presenting it to the Western media as his single, contiguous
> opinion in their favor. Montazeri was appraised of the situation,
> subtly repudiated the manner in which his missive was being
> mispresented by the Haifan Bahaim, and so has now clarified his
> opinion further, showing that he did not say what the Bahaim IT
> committee originally attributed to him.
Sounds very like Aiken's Solution!
Personally I prefer Hanlon's Razor.
Seon Ferguson
By the way your still a Zionist shill. How much are they paying you to try
to discredit me?
"?? ??? ??? ???? ???? ????" <wahid...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:50bf3cd9-73c1-4e1e...@i36g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Seon Ferguson
Actually the defining moment was in aus.politics when I posted a thread
called "why do people ignore Bahai persecution in Iran" or something like
that (just go to aus.politics and type in Seon ferguson bahai). I dont know
how he came accross it. He never posts in aus.politics. Maybe he goes around
the web searching for posts about bahai? I still disagree with the nsa's
actions and disagree with there pro Zionist view but that's not good enough
for him. Plus I think anyone who thinks I would work for the Zionist scum is
eather a Zionist dis info agent purposly trying to discredit me or an idiot.
He can take his pick I know what you will choose lol
Also he calls Bahai a cult for shunning people. isnt calling denouncing
people who dare disagree with your views just as bad as shunning and indeed
cultish?
Shahriar
On Jun 20, 4:28 am, "Shahriar" <frein...@hotml.but> wrote:.
>> bring forth evidence that Bahais hailed Montazery as their friends
>With pleasure:
>http://www.mideastyouth.com/2008/05/22/ayatollah-montazeri-proclaims-bahais->citizens-of-iran/
>http://www.roozonline.com/english/archives/2008/05/ayatollah_montazeri_criticizes.html
You are one crocked twisted mind, these websites are not Bahai sites and
have nothing to do with Bahais hailing Montazeri either.
You contradict yourself and your previous, present and future claims 100
times over before anyone can notice you. I have most sympathy with your poor
parents, if they could only make you take your medications.
>Akbar Ganji is a proven opportunist and liar. This is the same man who
>once was at the front lines of the militant ideological cadre of the
>Islamic Republic, esp. during the 8 year war with Iran. All of a
>sudden he has a change of heart overnight and is now kissing
>everyone's ass with even a tad of opposition to the IRI. That said,
>what Ganji has said versus what has been attributed to him saying are
>also two different things, just like the Montazeri fatwa you FASCISTS
>doctored and attributed to him, jumping up and down like freaks.
>Luckily this has all blown up in your faces!
>W
Good that your opinion values zilch, not only because you refute yourself
while opinionating, but also because your contradicting reality is so
obvious that any person of sanity figures you out in a drop of a hat.
Akbar Gnaji Article 'The right of being Baha’i vs. being Baha’i with rights
http://www.akbarganji.org/?p=57&langswitch_lang=fa ' does not side with
Bahais, he hails human rights and actually criticizes Montazeri for his way
short off human rights charter fatwa. Notwithstanding, as always you missed
the point regardless of pages of clarification. Montazeri's fatwa is not
about Bahai freedom in iran or their ideology being right, it is about every
citizen should have civil rights. but you should take all your medicine at
once and get a very long sleep.
Has...@aol.com
> actions and disagree with there pro Zionist view but that's not good enough
> for him.
Might this incident (which for us is a rerun of what Nima has done to
everyone who has known him) suggest to you that Nima might be
misrepresenting the facts on these matters as well?
Seon Ferguson
<Has...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3b07eb76-499a-43ea...@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
Only about how Bahai's are involved with the Zionists. I still believe the
letter is genuine and still question the spiritual assembly not speaking out
against the Zionists. But now I just think there sucking up. I know the
claims that they are involved with the Zionists is made up and distracts us
from the real enemy.
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
> "?? ??? ??? ???? ???? ????" <wahidaza...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:16f8b860-9b9a-40a5...@n19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 20, 4:28 am, "Shahriar" <frein...@hotml.but> wrote:.
>
> >> bring forth evidence that Bahais hailed Montazery as their friends
> >With pleasure:
> >http://www.roozonline.com/english/archives/2008/05/ayatollah_montazer...
>
> You are one crocked twisted mind,
You are talking about yoyrself again. These sites are propagating
stories planted and propagated by you Bahaim scum-suckers.
> You contradict yourself and your previous, present and future claims 100
> times over before anyone can notice you.
BS, sag bahaim. You asked me to show evidence of pro-bahaim stances
by Montazeri being circulated by the Western media, and I showed it to
you in clear daylight. You piece of cultist dog-crap and your herd are
sore at the fact that your global deception has been unmasked for what
it is. Now go suck on your somaq/boro somaqeto bemak!
<BIG BS snip>
> Akbar Gnaji Article 'The right of being Baha’i vs. being Baha’i with rightshttp://www.akbarganji.org/?p=57&langswitch_lang=fa' does not side with
> Bahais, he hails human rights and actually criticizes Montazeri for his way
> short off human rights charter fatwa. Notwithstanding, as always you missed
> the point regardless of pages of clarification. Montazeri's fatwa is not
> about Bahai freedom in iran or their ideology being right, it is about every
> citizen should have civil rights. but you should take all your medicine at
> once and get a very long sleep.
Dear fool, once again you obfuscate, what you bahaim do best. I am
saying that nothing that Ganji says is to be taken seriously given his
history.
W
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
> Only about how Bahai's are involved with the Zionists. I still believe the
> letter is genuine and still question the spiritual assembly not speaking out
> against the Zionists. But now I just think there sucking up. I know the
> claims that they are involved with the Zionists is made up and distracts us
> from the real enemy.
They are in Zionistan. How can they not be involved with Zionists when
the Israeli state subsidizes them as well for their gardens. By the
way, "Zionist shill" is a very American and very New York expression .
You've said in the past you live in Australia, yet your IP shows you
being looped thru an IP in Italy. And if you are soooo concerned about
the *real* enemy, as you say, why are you all over the place talking
about the Bahaim?
Gaping holes in your story, I'm afraid.
W
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
It should quite easy for you FASCISTS to proffer evidence about the
Taehri letter. Muddying waters is what you do FASCISTS do best. But
when it comes to the real thing, like the doctored Montazeri fatwa you
planted in the 'marginal' Western media, you come up short. Go
figure..
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
> He never posts in aus.politics.
I've been posting to aus.politics long before your Bahaim IT committee
wheeled you out as their scarecrow.
Has...@aol.com
> letter is genuine
Seon,
I'm not suggesting the letter itself is a forgery, just that Nima is
likely misrepresenting the nature of the circumstances. I don't know
what they are myself, but I know the Institutions don't do things like
this except when lives are at stake.
and still question the spiritual assembly not speaking out
> against the Zionists. But now I just think there sucking up.
And it doesn't occur to you that we could be genuinely following the
dictates of our religion not to get involved in political affairs?
Seon Ferguson
As I said before they are sucking up to the Zionist scum who control Israel.
If they don't Israel wont subsidize them anymore. There is still no evidence
that show the Bahai are helping the Zionists and IF they are I still speak
out about Zionism because that's the main driving force and if you don't
like it tough titties.
Zionist shill (which is what you are) may be an American term but I use the
internet and communicate with a lot of other Americans.
Where is the evidence that my IP address is in Italy? unless you can prove
your lies I'm going to have to roll my eyes at you. Plus as I said you are
welcome to read my passport.
By the way you can lie, smear and try to discredit my name all you want for
speaking out against Zionism but that wont make what I say any less true.
Talking to you is like talking to dr jeckeyl and mr hyde. one day you are
acting sane and talking to me the next you revert back to your old mr hyde
self and were back where we started at years ago. In fact from now on I am
going to reffer to you as Mr Hyde.
Seon Ferguson
I'm still extending an olive branch to you. Come back to the side of good.
Stop trying to discredit those of us who are speaking out against Zionisim.
God knows I am not working for the Zionists and thats all I care about. I
forgive you.
Seon Ferguson
<Has...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:c28241db-94fb-4db9...@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>> Only about how Bahai's are involved with the Zionists. I still believe
>> the
>> letter is genuine
>
> Seon,
>
> I'm not suggesting the letter itself is a forgery, just that Nima is
> likely misrepresenting the nature of the circumstances. I don't know
> what they are myself, but I know the Institutions don't do things like
> this except when lives are at stake.
>
the letter is to jehovas Witnesses for me. In other words to extremist for
my liking. Even if it was just a letter.
> and still question the spiritual assembly not speaking out
>> against the Zionists. But now I just think there sucking up.
>
> And it doesn't occur to you that we could be genuinely following the
> dictates of our religion not to get involved in political affairs?
Maybe it would be hard for your leaders to convince everyone to feel the
same way politically. Especially when your founder told you not to get into
politics. I do however wonder if your founder didn't want you to get into
politics then why does your religion call for a one world government?
Seon Ferguson
"Jeffrey" <Jeffr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:45a96457-9fba-4c14...@w1g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>I am not sure what to make of this.
>
> media with a story that the Iranian clergy are advocating suspension
> Montazeri's actual statements are that the Baha'is are a misled and
> false religion but that those Baha'is who do not oppose the country or
> Islam are to have basic human rights even though they are infidels.
> with Israel and the U.S. are to be "shunned" and I assume to lose
> decided that Baha'is are to be shunned (not because of their false
> religion but because of their conspiracy against the government).
>
Bahai's in Iran are pro Islam anyway so they shouldnt have anything to worry
about.
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
> I'm not suggesting the letter itself is a forgery, just that Nima is
> likely misrepresenting the nature of the circumstances. I don't know
> what they are myself,
This is a fallacy and the biggest fallacy you have yet uttered.
Luckily the Taheri family are available to contact, and they are happy
to talk!
>but I know the Institutions don't do things like
> this except when lives are at stake.
Bollocks! They did the EXACT SAME THING TO MY FAMILY!
> And it doesn't occur to you that we could be genuinely following the
> dictates of our religion not to get involved in political affairs?
Bollocks!
W
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
> "?? ??? ??? ???? ???? ????" <wahidaza...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:d2655a2c-3cbb-4ceb...@j33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Jun 21, 9:55 am, "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Only about how Bahai's are involved with the Zionists. I still believe
> >> the
> >> letter is genuine and still question the spiritual assembly not speaking
> >> out
> >> against the Zionists. But now I just think there sucking up. I know the
> >> claims that they are involved with the Zionists is made up and distracts
> >> us
> >> from the real enemy.
>
> > They are in Zionistan. How can they not be involved with Zionists when
> > the Israeli state subsidizes them as well for their gardens. By the
> > way, "Zionist shill" is a very American and very New York expression .
> > You've said in the past you live in Australia, yet your IP shows you
> > being looped thru an IP in Italy. And if you are soooo concerned about
> > the *real* enemy, as you say, why are you all over the place talking
> > about the Bahaim?
>
> > Gaping holes in your story, I'm afraid.
>
> > W
>
> As I said before they are sucking up to the Zionist scum who control Israel.
Which a) makes them patsies of Zionism and b) agents of Zionism. When
you are beholden to something, that which you are beholden to holds
you and owns you. QED!
> By the way you can lie, smear and try to discredit my name all you want for
> speaking out against Zionism but that wont make what I say any less true.
Speak out against Zionism all you want. I just do not believe you are
genuine. Besides I have never stopped you speaking against Zionism! I
have spoken against you for advocating for Zionist stooges, however.
W
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
> I'm still extending an olive branch to you. Come back to the side of good.
> Stop trying to discredit those of us who are speaking out against Zionisim.
> God knows I am not working for the Zionists and thats all I care about. I
> forgive you.
Red herring and straw man alert! Pray tell, when have I stopped you
from speaking against Zionism?? You are a typical crazy bahaim liar!
W
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
> The Bahai's I know believe Muhammad was a Manifestation of God so true
> Bahai's in Iran are pro Islam anyway so they shouldnt have anything to worry
> about.
You are completely deluded.
W
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
> I do however wonder if your founder didn't want you to get into
> politics then why does your religion call for a one world government?
Esoteric Agenda
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6030443037963555139&q=esoter...
Certain problems of fact, taxonomy and presentation with this film
above,
but the basic principle guiding it is sound. This film should be
watched, immediately followed by this:
Baha'is In My Backyard
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2877478116441126906&hl=en-AU
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
Jeffrey
> "Jeffrey" <Jeffrey...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Of course Baha'is believe Muhammad was a Manifestation of God, but
certainly you are aware that Islam considers Baha'is to be infidel.
Jeffrey
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
> Of course Baha'is believe Muhammad was a Manifestation of God, but
> certainly you are aware that Islam considers Baha'is to be infidel.
>
> Jeffrey
Let's look at this here. Bahaism considers Islam a legtimately divine-
sent religion from heaven and Muhammad (pbuh) as a Manifestation of
the Godhead. Bahaism considers itself the most recent revelation from
heaven, yet upon any close inspection, Bahaism is revealed to be
nothing more than a quite unnovel and watered down/sanitized copy of
the the religion of the Bayan. The foundations of Bahaism is the
Bayan. The blood and sacrifice made in the formative period were made
by Bayanis, not Bahais who didn't even exist, but Bahaism seeks to
take credit for everything without having done anything -- other than
usurp, sanitize and $$$-in upon the sacrifices of others. Baha'is of
all denominations cry and throw a stink about the treatment they
receive from Muslims and the Islamic world for considering them
apostates and infidels, even sometimes in a very minor cases killing
them. Yet Bahais have no compunction about apologizing for their own
crimes of murder and mayhem committed against the Bayanis or (during
the Shah's regime) against Muslims. While the Bahais kick dirt and
make a fuss internationally about such treatment they receive from
Muslims, they then have no problem designating apostates and infidels
of their own and doing precisely to these apostates and infidels of
theirs what they cry about Muslims doing to them. In short, the
circuitous epistemology of bahai-persecution is hypocritical and a
sham, behind it revealing agendas that can only be designated as an
agenda seeking 'lebensraum' for certain Western elites.
Now in the West's (and especially America's) post-industrial global
power grab for diminishing resources, at the end of the Cold War the
West-America is left with no *real* enemies of convenience to hate so
it reverts to a pre-modern one: the Muslim and evil Saracen. In the
warped group-think herd mentality of consumerist American popular
culture globalized, i.e. McWorld, overnight the Arab, the Muslim and
Islam tranformed into the symbol of everything to be hated, evil and
unclean (a figment of the Christian and his Crusade of blood against
all non-Christian heathens of yore). A wag the dog event of
convenience and mind-boggling proportions is perpetrated from within
on 911, and immediately blamed on the unwitting dupe patsies who
carried it out, and here we are at this moment of history whereby the
Muslim is the white man's new Jew to be done with as the white-master
wills. Never mind that militant Islamism and organized Jihadist
fundamentalism were tools of choice fabricated, funded, trained and
propped into power by Western-American intelligence agencies (together
with those petroleum consortiums who were at their wits end with the
non-compliant uppity secularized Western educated despots they had
initially installed and who throughout the 1960s and 1970s were
seeking more and more independence for their people from them) in
their design to undermine the USSR.
Enter the Bahais, the most convenient, god-sent smokescreen for these
Western-American elites to implement their Final Solution to thereby
consolidate their global power grab in the implementation of their
centuries long wet-dream of totalitarian New World Order with
themselves as the undisputed feudal herd-masters of the planet! Bahai
gives the smokescreen of their agenda total legitimacy and
justification to unleash their final genocidal holocaust on the
remnants of the global population who will resist them to the bitter
end given the chance. Given this, and given the checkered political
past of the Bahais throughout the Muslim world, and given especially
the depth of hatred that Bahais (unlike Bayanis) are programmed to
project towards Islam and the Muslim, is it any wonder then why the
Muslim and Islam would look at the Bahai as anything but a dangerous
infidel bent on destroying their lives, killing their families, raping
their children, stealing their livelihoods and resources, and
generally degrading and humiliating them: as David Kelly qua Mia
Pederson resoundingly proved to be the case for Iraq and the Iraqi,
lest we forget.
W
Has...@aol.com
> the letter is to jehovas Witnesses for me. In other words to extremist for
> my liking. Even if it was just a letter.
As I said, for Baha'is their relations with Iranians can be a matter
of life and death. That's why I don't try and second-guess the
institutions when it comes to this sort of thing.
> > Maybe it would be hard for your leaders to convince everyone to feel the
> same way politically. Especially when your founder told you not to get into
> politics. I do however wonder if your founder didn't want you to get into
> politics then why does your religion call for a one world government?
Actually, the principle articulated by Baha'u'llah calls for obedience
to government. During the time Abdu'l-Baha this developed into staying
out of politics entirely. I don't think think the expression of that
policy will necessarily remain the same for all time. When it comes to
the atmosphere in the Middle East right now, whatever position we took
would only do the people holding that position harm.
Has...@aol.com
> Bahai's in Iran are pro Islam anyway so they shouldnt have anything to worry
> about.
That's obviously not the way Muslims perceive us. In any case, this is
not an Ayatollah with any power right now anyhow.
Seon Ferguson
<Has...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:dd30d433-7ec6-4343...@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>> I'm not saying the guys childrens hunned him or anything but I still
>> think
>> the letter is to jehovas Witnesses for me. In other words to extremist
>> for
>> my liking. Even if it was just a letter.
>
> As I said, for Baha'is their relations with Iranians can be a matter
> of life and death. That's why I don't try and second-guess the
> institutions when it comes to this sort of thing.
>
>> > Maybe it would be hard for your leaders to convince everyone to feel
>> > the
>> same way politically. Especially when your founder told you not to get
>> into
>> politics. I do however wonder if your founder didn't want you to get into
>> politics then why does your religion call for a one world government?
>
> Actually, the principle articulated by Baha'u'llah calls for obedience
> to government. During the time Abdu'l-Baha this developed into staying
> out of politics entirely. I don't think think the expression of that
> policy will necessarily remain the same for all time. When it comes to
> the atmosphere in the Middle East right now, whatever position we took
> would only do the people holding that position harm.
>
So what about all this New World Order global government crap?
Seon Ferguson
discredit me. If you said that on national TV I could sue but because it is
the internet I just have to let you continue to smear my good name.
The olive branch is still extended. As I said God knows your wrong and thats
all that matters to me. I will continue speaking out against Zionisim no
matter what you call me.
Seon Ferguson
Yeah because Baha'u'llah came after Muhammad. So what are you saying, that
what the President of Iran said is double speak because all infidels are
enemies of Islam anyway?
I certainly don't view true Bahai's like you as a enemy of Islam.
Seon Ferguson
<Has...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1d62a3f5-2298-4d53...@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Yeah good thing to. Of course the Americans are in directly responsible for
the revolution that lead to the original Ayatollah taking power but lets not
get into politics ;p
Seon Ferguson
The Bahai books even say the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was a manifestation of
God. What's so deluded about that?
sma...@gmail.com
Not something to be created by taking sides.
sma...@gmail.com
> discredit me. If you said that on national TV I could sue but because it is
> the internet I just have to let you continue to smear my good name.
You have the same right to sue someone for making libelous statements
on the internet as you do any other medium. The reason the rest of us
haven't tried is that Nima lives in another country. Besides, to prove
libel we would have to establish he was of sound mind when he made
those accusations. That could be a tough nut to crack.
Seon Ferguson
<sma...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0c187522-aa80-49e1...@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Lol good point. i already asked if I could sue someone online for calling me
a nazi (as you know I speak out against Zionism) but the lawyer said it will
be very difficult to prove. I hope some day mr hyde lies about someone in
his own country and he gets his ass sued. That would be funny.
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
> > I'm not saying the guys childrens hunned him or anything but I still think
> > the letter is to jehovas Witnesses for me. In other words to extremist for
> > my liking. Even if it was just a letter.
>
> As I said, for Baha'is their relations with Iranians can be a matter
> of life and death.
In the context of an expatriate community in Perth, Australia,
officiating a local cable program for Naw-Ruz, this is flat out
slander, and one which I would personally like to nail you and your
institutions on! Furthemore, the officiator of the said program - an
Iranian Muslim - was at the time sending his own kids to Bahai
children's classes. Manijeh Rayhani and Alan Waters didn't have a
problem with that. There problem was something far more sinister from
their end!
W
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
LOL! The above is one of the most humorous and ridiculous forms of
red herring I have ever read here.
And pray tell, where and when have you spoken out against Zionism??
Provide the links.
W
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
Anytime, anyplace, Maniac, you or your masters on the Hill of Doom
wish to take matters into any credible courtroom on this planet, let
me know -- since this is precisely what I ask! And where libel holds
in-law in virtually every jurisdiction worthy of the name, is in its
initiatory trajectory; and on that, as you and your attorneys on
retainer know quite well, I have your whole freakin' organization by
the short and curlies, which is why your organization resists the
temptation ever seeing me across the aisle of a courtroom! A class
action lawsuit with me is one you are sure to lose, and apparently
even your attorneys on retainer have apparently "advised" your
"institutions" of this very fact. FYI!
W
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
> <sman...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Provide links to your "speaking out against Zionism.".
You say you live in Australia. I beg to differ. There are laws in this
country making it an offense to pretend to be an Australian citizen
when you are not. So go ahead and sue me, and remember to bring your
crazy bahaim friends in court with you so we can have some real fun!
W
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
> > So what about all this New World Order global government crap?
>
> Not something to be created by taking sides.
Which you FASCISTS have.
W
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
> "?? ??? ??? ???? ???? ????" <wahidaza...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:079f9515-406d-4266...@w8g2000prd.googlegroups.com...> On Jun 21, 7:55 pm, "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> The Bahai's I know believe Muhammad was a Manifestation of God so true
> >> Bahai's in Iran are pro Islam anyway so they shouldnt have anything to
> >> worry
> >> about.
>
> > You are completely deluded.
>
> Baha'u'llah even said all Religions were a Jewel...or something like that.
Husayn 'Ali Nari, your profit, uttered many high sounding platitudes,
whilst he was having the throats of his Bayani detractors cut, that
sound in that similar vein. As with 99% of his other writings authored
by his Kashani scribe, where he is concerned, it isn't worth the paper
it was written on.
> The Bahai books even say the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was a manifestation of
> God. What's so deluded about that?
Nothing deluded about that. But "Bahai's in Iran are pro Islam anyway
so they shouldnt have anything to worry about" is an unbelievably
ignorant statement given the history and facts. Perhaps you should
research a little on the pre-revolutionary involvement of the Bahaim
in the highest organs of the Shah's regime, particularly his secret
police SAVAK, that generated the kind of hostility in the
revolutionary and post-revolutionary period against this cult. Find
out especially about the careers of don Hozhabr Yazdani and Habib
Sabet.
BTW, out of curiosity, what is the name of the PR firm you work for?
W
Seon Ferguson
Why should I prove myself to you? the only opinions that matter to me are
God's and my self.
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
> Why should I prove myself to you? the only opinions that matter to me are
> God's and my self.
This is an A-Grade cop-out more indicative of guilt on your part than
taking any moral high grounds. You say you have spoken out against
Zionism, show me where and when. Very simple.
W
Seon Ferguson
Fucking retard, it's too bad the mudslum fucks in Iraq didn't cut your
head off -- because you never use anything above your neck for anything
constructive.
Australia should deport your Irish ass to Iraq -- where you could be with
the
Islamonazi pigs you so admire.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.republicans/browse_thread/thread/ad7cc0443be06a85/71e7c5778915f7b6?q=+Ron+Paul+Shunned+In+Blatantly+Unfair+MSNBC+Debate&lnk=nl&
What a Jew Hating Bigot loser! Did that one brain cell you have left give
> out
> on you? Fucking Nazi loons.
> Paul's toast but you aren't smart enough to see it.
> Jorge
No, you are just an anti-semite. You are not a Mossad shill.
Said by peter Webb of course.
All Bad
http://tinyurl.com/55b9tp
(snip)
Newsflash: The Grand Ayatolloh was interviewed on the subject in May. Then
the reactionaries reacted against the respect cleric who had been under
house arrest for a decade.
"Barely one week after the Shi’a Muslim’s highest religious authority and
one of Iran’s most courageous journalist and commentator demanded for the
first time that Iranian Baha’is “should have equal civilian rights as all
other citizens of the land”, fundamentalist and radical Shi’a circles
staunchly opposed to the Baha’is started a vigorous campaign of
denunciations and calumnies against the members of the faith that is
forbidden by the laws of the Islamic Republic of Iran."
Oh, but you knew that, and pretended not to know..
- All Bad
PaulHammond
> "Viv" <viv_jacob...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>
>
> Actually the defining moment was in aus.politics when I posted a thread
> called "why do people ignore Bahai persecution in Iran" or something like
> that (just go to aus.politics and type in Seon ferguson bahai). I dont know
> how he came accross it. He never posts in aus.politics. Maybe he goes around
> the web searching for posts about bahai?
That's quite likely, although since Nima lives in Australia, I don't
find it that much of a stretch to imagine that he sometimes reads that
group.
> I still disagree with the nsa's
> actions and disagree with there pro Zionist view but that's not good enough
> for him.
That's pretty much what I believe - Nima doesn't like anyone who
doesn't follow him right down the line, even when he's wrong.
Dermod is much more strongly anti-Baha'i than I am, and I'd say
probably knew Nima better than virtually anyone else around here.
That still doesn't stop Nima calling *Dermod* a Baha'i double-agent
because he doesn't do exactly what Nima says.
Plus I think anyone who thinks I would work for the Zionist scum is
> eather a Zionist dis info agent purposly trying to discredit me or an idiot.
> He can take his pick I know what you will choose lol
> Also he calls Bahai a cult for shunning people. isnt calling denouncing
> people who dare disagree with your views just as bad as shunning and indeed
> cultish?-
I try not to get involved in Jewish/Palestine arguments if I can avoid
it.
Just one minor point - since Nima has mentioned my name in connection
with the fact that he doesn't like you any more - is he actually
saying that you ARE me and have been all along, or is he just saying
that you are LIKE me, in that he now believes the Baha'is have been
paying you to pretend to like him?
Paul
PaulHammond
wrote:
> On Jun 21, 5:16 pm, Hasl...@aol.com wrote:
>
> > I'm not suggesting the letter itself is a forgery, just that Nima is
> > likely misrepresenting the nature of the circumstances. I don't know
> > what they are myself,
>
> This is a fallacy and the biggest fallacy you have yet uttered.
> Luckily the Taheri family are available to contact, and they are happy
> to talk!
>
Why aren't they, then?
Paul
PaulHammond
Seon Ferguson wrote:
>> >
> > You say you live in Australia. I beg to differ. There are laws in this
> > country making it an offense to pretend to be an Australian citizen
> > when you are not. So go ahead and sue me, and remember to bring your
> > crazy bahaim friends in court with you so we can have some real fun!
> >
> > W
>
> Why should I prove myself to you? the only opinions that matter to me are
> God's and my self.
This is Nima's commonest argument tactic.
Make a ludicrous claim about someone. Then pretend the onus is upon
them to DISPROVE his claim, rather than upon him to prove it.
He really doesn't have a clue about reason, and reasoned argument.
Deev
dammages.
He lives with his parents and claims work that others have done as his own
and has become a joke to his own family.
<sma...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0c187522-aa80-49e1...@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
> "?? ??? ??? ???? ???? ????" <wahidaza...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:61329279-571a-4d91...@l28g2000prd.googlegroups.com...> On Jun 22, 8:43 pm, "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Why should I prove myself to you? the only opinions that matter to me are
> >> God's and my self.
>
> > This is an A-Grade cop-out more indicative of guilt on your part than
> > taking any moral high grounds. You say you have spoken out against
> > Zionism, show me where and when. Very simple.
>
> Fucking retard, it's too bad the mudslum fucks in Iraq didn't cut your
> head off -- because you never use anything above your neck for anything
> constructive.
>
> Australia should deport your Irish ass to Iraq -- where you could be with
> the
> Islamonazi pigs you so admire.
So you are NOT an Australian citizen. But an Irishman living in
Australia. The plot thickens.....
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.republicans/browse_thread...
> What a Jew Hating Bigot loser! Did that one brain cell you have left give
>
> > out
> > on you? Fucking Nazi loons.
> > Paul's toast but you aren't smart enough to see it.
> > Jorge
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/aus.politics/browse_thread/thread/5db2...
>
> No, you are just an anti-semite. You are not a Mossad shill.
>
> Said by peter Webb of course.
This is far from speaking out against Zionism. It is engaging in
typical USENET blather, and arguably a smokescreen.
W
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
wrote:
> "?? ??? ??? ???? ???? ????" <wahidaza...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:b420c7af-540a-4c27...@w5g2000prd.googlegroups.com...http://tinyurl.com/55b9tp
> (snip)
>
> Newsflash: The Grand Ayatolloh was interviewed on the subject in May. Then
> the reactionaries reacted against the respect cleric who had been under
> house arrest for a decade.
Newsflash. The dates you LYING FASCISTS have attributed to him in the
May interview you claim do not match the text or dating of the message
you have elsewhere attributed to him as being his fatwa. You LIARS
were caught in your own net of LIES, and you cannot blame the IRI for
this one.
<BIG IT committee c-sucker snip>
-
This site here claims to reproduce a text of Montazeri's decision with
an affixed date of 14 May 2008:
http://www.mideastyouth.com/2008/05/22/ayatollah-montazeri-proclaims-...
Curiously, rather than signing off with the hejri date of 18th
Jamadi'l-Ula 1429, it actually signs off with a secular Iranian
shamsi/
solar date of 25th of Ordibehesht 1387. A Grand Ayatollah and Source
of Emulation (marja' taqlid) such as Montazeri, if even a liberal
dissident to the Khomeinist mullocracy, would never sign an opinion
let alone a decision with a secular solar date.
Next, in the discussion section of Montazeri's own site
http://www.amontazeri.com/farsi/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=56&FORUM_ID=4&CAT_...
The webmaster of the discussion logs responds on behalf of Montazeri
in a thread with the identically same note and the identically same
wording as the purported text of the ruling the Haifan Bahais are
making much noise regarding, but the date of the posting is given as
**October 2 2007**. Moreover, the sentence where Montazeri articulates
the fact that the Bahais do not possess rights in figh (principles of
Islamic jurisprudence) is gratuitously excised in the May 14th
missive. Clearly there is a gigantic discrepancy and embellishment
happening here, which on the indisputable face of things, is clearly
not initiating from Ayatollah Montazeri or any of his
representatives.
-
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
> On 20 Jun, 09:54, "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > "Viv" <viv_jacob...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> > Actually the defining moment was in aus.politics when I posted a thread
> > called "why do people ignore Bahai persecution in Iran" or something like
> > that (just go to aus.politics and type in Seon ferguson bahai). I dont know
> > how he came accross it. He never posts in aus.politics. Maybe he goes around
> > the web searching for posts about bahai?
>
> That's quite likely, although since Nima lives in Australia, I don't
> find it that much of a stretch to imagine that he sometimes reads that
> group.
>
> > I still disagree with the nsa's
> > actions and disagree with there pro Zionist view but that's not good enough
> > for him.
>
> That's pretty much what I believe - Nima doesn't like anyone who
> doesn't follow him right down the line, even when he's wrong.
>
> Dermod is much more strongly anti-Baha'i than I am, and I'd say
> probably knew Nima better than virtually anyone else around here.
Dermod and I have never met. Dermod's friendship with me was always
one sided on his part, and given his behavior with 1) Maryam Rachel
Woodlock (whose husband had to finally tell Dermod to go get fucked),
2) George Flemming and 3) then with me, I would say there is enough to
bury him ten times over. He is also NOT an anti-Bahai by any stretch
and is on record himself for claiming to be a Bahaim. He is also
married to an enrolled Bahai In Good Standing. Of course if the Dead
Weed feels slighted, we can take the matter into a courtroom.
W
W
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
> He really doesn't have a clue about reason, and reasoned argument.
And this coming from a cultist imbecile to who can't even mask their
true allegiances very well. And, pray tell, when have you ever
advanced a reasoned argument that wasn't punctured with the gaping
holes of your own sectarian biases, eh? Never! You surely didn't show
it in the NINETEEN YEARS thread which Steve Blomberg wiped the floor
with you.
W
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
> Not to say that he has anything to his name that can be taken away to cover
> dammages.
But you people do, esp. you Farid Rohani.
> He lives with his parents
Since when?
>and claims work that others have done as his own
Like what? Both of the statements you have made above are not only
outright lies but come with a heavy liability for you, asshole. And
you will pay!
> and has become a joke to his own family.
Not apparently as much of a joke you and your Sa'udi naneh have become
to yours.
W
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
him and grant him success) for posting the link below. This finally
demonstrates my case beyond any reasonable doubt and to a moral
certainty proving that the version of Montazeri’s opinion diffused by
the Haifan Bahaim to the Western media is tout court fraudulent and
interpolatively manufactured. As an aside, ironically enough, the tone
of this missive is precisely the sort of bullshit the uhj regularly
sends out when encouraging someone to be shunned. If the Haifan Bahaim
are happy with this in its original format, the Lord of All-Creation
help them, because they will need it! Ayatollah Montazeri is
definitely no friend of theirs. Yet given this, with utmost arrogance
and in the height of all dishonesty and sleaze, the Haifan Bahaim have
taken two completely different missives, manipulatively cut, pasted
and cobbled sections together (like they do in other settings as
well), changed dates around (in other words, ‘DOCTORED’ a specious
fatwa) and offered it to the world press as ‘the’ fatwa issued by the
dissident Iranian cleric advocating for their ‘special’ rights in
Iran. He is not doing anything of the sort whatsoever. He is
articulating the general principle of ‘rights’ under the Qur’an
regarding those who are, contextually speaking, non-combatants as well
a letter of the First Shi’ite Imam (as) that qualifies what such
rights would entail as applying to non-Muslims. Later Montazeri quite
specifically instances exceptions to this rule where “such persons”
are pursuing a path of enmity against the people of Iran. Given this,
those like Ian Kluge or the Hayat-i-Yaran and the Bahaim AO in
entirety, would specifically fall under the ‘enemies of the nation’
rubric, and so prosecuted by the rights of the nation they are seeking
to exploit given their active ‘association with the enemies of the
nation’ (viz. the governments and intelligence establishments of the
states of Israel and the United States). At the beginning he is
deliberate in showing his opinion of Bahaism: he calls it a misled
cult (firqe-ye zale). In essence, therefore, Montazeri is arguing no
different than what the present regime is saying itself about the
Haifan Bahaim organization. So much for this being a fatwa issued in
their favor. Here is the link from Montazeri’s site Pacifist put up:
http://tinyurl.com/55b9tp
And here below, finally, is what Montazeri actually said IN FULL on
the date originally attributed to him by the ___Haifan Bahaim doctored
fatwa___ (my technical translation follows below):
--
In His Name, the Most High!
With salutations and blessings. The opinion of this person (nazar-i-
een jenab) regarding the misled cult of Bahaism (firqe-ye zale-ye
baha’iye) is the same opinion as the one held during the years before
the Revolution, and so has not changed. However [the case of] those
who in most cases are not followers of any of the religions sent by
heaven (adyan-i-asimani) [i.e. Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity
and Islam] are referable to the ruling wisdom of the illustrious
verse, “Allah forbideth thee from dealing unkindly and unjustly with
those who do not fight against thee in the faith nor are ones driving
thee out of thy homes, for Allah loveth those who are just” (Qur’an.
60:8); as well as per the letter of the Commander of the Faithful
[‘Ali] to Malik Ashtar, “You must kindle in thy heart kindness,
compassion and love for thy subjects. Do not behave towards them as if
you are a voracious and ravenous beast and as if your success lies in
devouring them… they are brothers to you, and those who have a
religion [other than yours], they are human beings like you (The Peak
of Eloquence/Nahju’l-Balagha, Letter 53). [As such] their human rights
should be respected.
[Now] citizenship rights are also in one particular respect universal
and its limits should [therefore] be specified in that respect on the
basis of the customary [‘or’ canon] law (‘urfi) and the Constitution
[of the Islamic Republic] by the [will of the] majority of the
people. However if certain persons are [determined in] pursuing [the
path of] enmity against the people of the nation and are abetting
foreign enemies, and if their association [with these foreign enemies]
be established for the court(s) pursuant to the laws of the nation,
they should be punished according to the law(s). Their citizenship
[rights] (shahrvandi-i-anan) does not impede [or ‘obstruct’] the body
of the law [to act] (mani’ az ajza’-i-qanun nemishavad]. [Yet] it is
also necessary that precautions be taken (lazim ast morraqibat shavad)
so that the youth of the nation (javanan-i-keshvar) do not become
embroiled in their evil propaganda (tablighat-i-su’-i-anan); and if
such dealings and association with them will only give cause to their
[cultivation and] strength (mu’amileh va mu’asherat mujib-i-taghviyat-
i-anan shavad), it is essential to disassociate from [‘or’ shun] them
(lazim ast az an ijtinab gardad).
God willing, may your success be assured!
1387/3/25
--
And the original Persian text:
بسمه تعالی
با سلام و تحیت
نظر این جانب در مورد فرقه ضاله بهائیه همان نظر سالهای قبل از انقلاب
است و تغییری نکرده است . ولی به طور کلی افرادی که تابع هیچ یک از ادیان
آسمانی نیستند نیز به حکم آیه شریفه : " لا ینهاکم الله عن الذین لم
یقاتلوکم فی الدین و لم یخرجوکم من دیارکم ان تبروهم و تقسطوا الیهم ان
الله یحب المقسطین ". (سوره ممتحنه ، آیه 8) و فرمایش امیرالمومنین علیه
السلام در نامه به مالک اشتر: "واشعر قلبک الرحمة للرعیة والمحبة لهم
واللطف بهم و لا تکونن علیهم سبعا ضاریا تغتنم اکلهم فانهم صنفان : اما
اخ لک فی الدین او نظیر لک فی الخلق " (نهج البلاغة، نامه 53) باید حقوق
انسانی آنان رعایت شود.
حقوق شهروندی نیز یک واژه کلی است و حدود آن باید بر اساس عرف و قانون
اساسی مورد پذیرش اکثریت مردم مشخص شود. البته اگر کسانی در صدد دشمنی با
مردم کشور برآیند و با دشمنان خارجی همکاری نمایند و همکاری آنان مطابق
قوانین کشور برای دادگاه صالح ثابت شود باید طبق قانون مجازات شوند. و
شهروندی آنان مانع از اجراء قانون نمی شود. و لازم است مراقبت شود جوانان
کشور گرفتار تبلیغات سوء آنان نشوند، و اگر معامله و معاشرت با آنان موجب
تقویت آنان شود لازم است از آن اجتناب گردد.
ان شاء الله موفق باشید.
1387/3/25
-
This episode should give pause for reflection to any sincere and
conscientious person. In order to deflect attention from malfeasances
they themselves have created all over the place, with a straight face
and without the least compunction, they lie about abusive anti-Islamic
letters they themselves have spawned against defenseless expatriate
eighty-five year old men who read poetry on local cable channel, and
then in the height of mindboggling arrogance they take it upon
themselves to manufacture purely fictional stories based on ‘marginal’
facts and in the most ‘marginal’ of outlets of the Western press,
while pretending it is a major story. They lie and they lie and they
lie and they lie and they lie some more and then lie again …. An
organization which will stoop to this level of deceit, obfuscation,
lying, unbelievable sleaze and misdirection cannot be trusted
regarding anything it says at any time anywhere, whether in the past,
the present or the future. Episodes such as this should finally begin
proving to those still not convinved regarding what we Bayanis have
been stating all along for years about these so-and-sos, especially as
it pertains to their deliberate tampering, doctoring and totally
deliberate whitewash of Babi history and texts.
Luckily Montazeri’s site is not wikipedia whereby Bahaim editors can
gratuitously manipulate and erase messages and discussions they don’t
like.
Jeffrey, this here is pure gold! Use it, and use it well.
W
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
<snip>
Caution - THE BAHAI TECHNIQUE
"Slanderous Vilification" = The Baha'i Technique - Ad Hominem, Libel,
Slander, Demonize, Scapegoat, Ostracize, Shun, Banish, Backbite,
Defame, Vilify, Discredit, Smear, Revile, Suppress, Attack, Bully,
Intimidate, Threaten, Malign, Blackball, Deceive, Coerce, Silence,
Harass... etc., etc.... CAUTION NON-BAHAIS
See *Bahais In My Backyard*
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2877478116441126906&hl=en-AU
BAHAIM Tactics & Techniques
1. As far as possible they hold back from responding
2. Then they claim no knowledge [of the given issue] by feigning
ignorance
3. After the exposer has exposed they will try to divert to secondary
and totally peripheral and irrelevent side-issues
4. The exposer is then painted as someone with an axe to grind,
biased, deluded (while they, the bahaim, still have not responded to
the main issue exposed)
5. Next they relate mental instability and insanity to the exposer
[i.e. shoot the messenger]
6. Then, the last tactic, is to wheel out several dubious personas on
the scene who claim to be neutral non-bahai observers who then begin
attacking the exposer as well as the issue exposed a
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
Seon Ferguson
What about all those times I talked about the Israel lobby wanting to attack
Iran or the fact that the Balfor decleration was written to Lord Rothschild.
Well you can think whatever you want about me but Jesus taught us to love
our enemies and pray for those hwo persecute you. So I will always pray to
you no matter how many lies you tell about me.
By the way I would also like to thank you for having more faith in me then I
do. I would never be smart enough to be hired by the IT Bahaim committee.
Seon Ferguson
"PaulHammond" <paha...@onetel.net.uk> wrote in message
news:3b50b6d5-8719-4ef7...@m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
And he calls you lot facists.
Seon Ferguson
On 20 Jun, 09:54, "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Viv" <viv_jacob...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>
>
> Actually the defining moment was in aus.politics when I posted a thread
> called "why do people ignore Bahai persecution in Iran" or something like
> that (just go to aus.politics and type in Seon ferguson bahai). I dont
> know
> how he came accross it. He never posts in aus.politics. Maybe he goes
> around
> the web searching for posts about bahai?
>That's quite likely, although since Nima lives in Australia, I don't
>find it that much of a stretch to imagine that he sometimes reads that
>group.
Maybe he watches it and just doesnt post. So he lives in Australia what
exactly did your lawyers tell you about online slander?
> I still disagree with the nsa's
> actions and disagree with there pro Zionist view but that's not good
> enough
> for him.
"That's pretty much what I believe - Nima doesn't like anyone who
doesn't follow him right down the line, even when he's wrong.
Dermod is much more strongly anti-Baha'i than I am, and I'd say
probably knew Nima better than virtually anyone else around here.
>That still doesn't stop Nima calling *Dermod* a Baha'i double-agent
>because he doesn't do exactly what Nima says."
So let me get this straight. He calls Bahai's cultists for shunning people
(and I still don't know what that involves btw) but when you disagree with
him on just one issue, like Bahai persecution for me and how they are
involved with the Israel lobby (ok two) he shuns you and denounces you as a
Bahai agent? Am I the only one here who doesn't notice the hypocrisy?
>Plus I think anyone who thinks I would work for the Zionist scum is
> eather a Zionist dis info agent purposly trying to discredit me or an
> idiot.
> He can take his pick I know what you will choose lol
> Also he calls Bahai a cult for shunning people. isnt calling denouncing
> people who dare disagree with your views just as bad as shunning and
> indeed
> cultish?-
"I try not to get involved in Jewish/Palestine arguments if I can avoid
it.
Just one minor point - since Nima has mentioned my name in connection
with the fact that he doesn't like you any more - is he actually
saying that you ARE me and have been all along, or is he just saying
that you are LIKE me, in that he now believes the Baha'is have been
paying you to pretend to like him?"
Good question I wish he would answer that for me.
However I don't think we were friends to begin with. Friends don't end
friendships because they disagree with each other. I'm sure most of my
friends would disagree with my views but I still like spending time with
them.
Death to Haifan Bahaism
1. As far as possible they hold back from responding
2. Then they claim no knowledge [of the given issue] by feigning
ignorance
3. After the exposer has exposed they will try to divert to secondary
and totally peripheral and irrelevent side-issues
4. The exposer is then painted as someone with an axe to grind,
biased, deluded (while they, the bahaim, still have not responded to
the main issue exposed)
5. Next they relate mental instability and insanity to the exposer
[i.e. shoot the messenger]
6. Then, the last tactic, is to wheel out several dubious personas on
the scene who claim to be neutral non-bahai observers who then begin
attacking the exposer as well as the issue exposed and supporting the
bahais and their issues as so-called non-bahais
Death to Haifan Bahaism
personas on
the scene who claim to be neutral non-bahai observers who then begin
attacking the exposer as well as the issue exposed and supporting the
On Jun 23, 1:32 pm, Death to Haifan Bahaism <deathtobaha...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> BAHAIM Tactics & Techniques
>
> 1. As far as possible they hold back from responding
> 2. Then they claim no knowledge [of the given issue] by feigning
> ignorance
> 3. After the exposer has exposed they will try to divert to secondary
> and totally peripheral and irrelevent side-issues
> 4. The exposer is then painted as someone with an axe to grind,
> biased, deluded (while they, the bahaim, still have not responded to
> the main issue exposed)
> 5. Next they relate mental instability and insanity to the exposer
> [i.e. shoot the messenger]
> 6. Then, the last tactic, is to wheel out several dubious personas on
> the scene who claim to be neutral non-bahai observers who then begin
> attacking the exposer as well as the issue exposed and supporting the
> bahais and their issues as so-called non-bahais
>
> See *Bahais In My Backyard*http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2877478116441126906&hl=en-AU
Seon Ferguson
"Death to Haifan Bahaism" <deathto...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:637e4e01-5849-4685...@p39g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
Seon Ferguson
"Death to Haifan Bahaism" <deathto...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1610acf9-7ed6-47e9...@h1g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
Death to Haifan Bahaism
> May God forgive you for your lies.
And you, yours...
Death to Haifan Bahaism
Seon Ferguson
> On Jun 23, 2:38 pm, "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> May God forgive you for your lies.
>
> And you, yours...
>
Seon Ferguson
"Death to Haifan Bahaism" <deathto...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:56e917b1-fede-489e...@y22g2000prd.googlegroups.com...