The Wastefullness of Automobile Tires
BlackWater
scuffing off about an inch of rubber, then throw away
two or three times as much rubber and wait for the
dump to catch fire.
It would seem EASY to build a 'tire' that's JUST the
tread portion - crimped into a thin metal ring. Just
clamp a new ring on the wheel rim when it's time.
With modern suspension technology, there's no reason
we HAVE to be using high-profile pneumatic tires. Any
bumps can be removed by the suspension components, or
you could use more flexible materials for the wheel
rim, or both. In any event, the old-fashioned tire is
now antiquated, idiotic, dangerous and wasteful.
The 'tread only' tire would require NO new technology
or compounds. Snugly attached to its metal retaining
ring it would even dissipate heat faster than the
traditional design. As 'ultra-low profile' pneumatics
are all the craze, just take it one small step further
and get rid of the air pocket entirely.
Motorcycle tires, same thing - just using a curved
profile. Might be a little trickier getting on the
rim ... but then who says you can't use two half-
curved bits that meet in the middle ?
No more punctures either ...
Al
ago. One problem that might occur is providing a constant
load-bearing surface. How and where is this tread supported?
It doesn't take much to make things feel bumpy.
dlzc1 D:cox T:net@nospam.com N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)
"BlackWater" <b...@barrk.net> wrote in message
news:425597a0...@news.east.earthlink.net...
Here in the land where it "never" snows, we grind the tires up,
mix them with asphalt (and other goodies) and coat our roads with
them. It makes things a lot quieter.
Now if I can figure out why I pay a fee for disposal of the used
tire, and taxes pay for the fellow to coat the road... ;>)
As to your assumption that any amount of mass can be added to the
"unsprung weight", to help absorb shocks, better guess again.
As to your assumption that heat transfer would be improved,
better guess again. Same area, same load, same distortion, same
heating.
If you are talking about a solid rim with rubber bonded to it, I
would think you've never ridden a bicycle with a bent rim. We
drive on real roads, with real objects on them. You'll not get
cheaper than a "standard" pneumatic tire. Quite forgiving of
hitting a pipe or lawn chair at 80 kph. NO solid rim would be.
David A. Smith
Anthony
@news.east.earthlink.net:
> Motorcycle tires, same thing - just using a curved
> profile. Might be a little trickier getting on the
> rim ... but then who says you can't use two half-
> curved bits that meet in the middle ?
>
Won't work very well for motorcycle tires. IIRC the motorcycle tire
takes advantage of the deflection of the contact patch due to load to
help the motorcycle turn.
Same applies to auto tires. The deflection of the tire creates the patch
of rubber on the road, if you had steel backing, that would become more
or less a line contact instead, greatly reducing available traction.
--
Anthony
You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
better idiots.
Remove sp to reply via email
Mike Yarwood
automobiles. You pay for a lot of rubber then most of it goes towards your
"national carbon sequestration budget" or these people
http://www.leeds.ac.uk/reporter/443/tyres.htm maybe make a profit
eventually and all the damn carbon gets back into the system. Ah well , at
least no-one is collecting the inch or so that you left on the road.
best of luck - Mike
"Al" <ecar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:115bj7o...@corp.supernews.com...
Dean
> tread portion - crimped into a thin metal ring. Just
> clamp a new ring on the wheel rim when it's time.
>
> No more punctures either ...
Maybe not so easy, but Michelin is all over it with their Tweel. Check it out:
http://www.michelinman.com/difference/releases/pressrelease01102005a.html
BlackWater
a thin metal retaining/mounting ring. Just curl the edge
of the metal over at the edge into a shallow 'C' that grips
the edge of the rubber. In practice, you'd probably want
some adhesion between the back-surface of the tread and
the metal ring so the center of the tread wouldn't tend
to pooch out at high speeds.
Now as for 'constant load-bearing surface', I don't think
this is a problem. Automobiles really aren't supposed to
lean onto the sidewalls of their tires anyway - the
suspension is supposed to keep 100% of the tread in flat
contact with the roadway at all times while the passenger
compartment sways a bit.
If you've seen some of those ultra-low profile tires that
are popular with the 'low rider' set, you'd see they were
90% of the way to the 'all tread' tire already. The only
function of the air in those tires is to expand the bead
so it locks into the rim.
BlackWater
A good use for old tires - but most communities don't
DO that, plus the steel-belted tires don't recycle well.
>Now if I can figure out why I pay a fee for disposal of the used
>tire, and taxes pay for the fellow to coat the road... ;>)
It's a scheme to make MORE MONEY of course ...
If they quit doing that, they'd just have to raise
fees or taxes elsewhere.
>As to your assumption that any amount of mass can be added to the
>"unsprung weight", to help absorb shocks, better guess again.
What I'm proposing would have LESS mass than a
traditional tire - ten, maybe twenty percent less.
The less unsprung mass, the easier for the suspension
system. The 'metal retaining ring' for the rubber
tread would be quite THIN sheet metal, just something
you clamp to when attaching the thing to the wheel
rim. Envision little slotted tabs every couple of
inches. You place a ring or cover with L-shaped
catches along the edge over it, twist to lock, and
then apply a retaining bolt or something so the thing
can't unscrew.
>As to your assumption that heat transfer would be improved,
>better guess again. Same area, same load, same distortion, same
>heating.
BUT - since the back surface of the tread is in direct
contact with a metal 'heat-sink' instead of a pocket
of insulating air ...
Also, a lot of the 'distortion' you're talking about
in a traditional tire is SIDEWALL flex. This design
eliminates the sidewalls.
>If you are talking about a solid rim with rubber bonded to it, I
>would think you've never ridden a bicycle with a bent rim. We
>drive on real roads, with real objects on them. You'll not get
>cheaper than a "standard" pneumatic tire. Quite forgiving of
>hitting a pipe or lawn chair at 80 kph. NO solid rim would be.
I think I addressed that issue in two ways.
First, modern automobile suspension systems are
a lot better than on your old bicycle. Existing
suspensions could be 'tuned' better for the
hard tires and new cars could be optimized from
the drawing-board up. Electronic-assisted suspension
seems a coming thing anyway - and that would be
even easier to tune to accomodate hard tires.
The second option I offered was to substitute
flexible tires with more flexible wheel rims.
The olde tyme spoked rims offered a certain
amount of flex. Using curved sections for solid
rims would achieve a similar effect. Think of
two slightly hemispherical discs of springy
sheet steel - hitting a bump causes them to
pooch outwards slightly. These are undamped
of course, so your suspension system has to
be able to deal with the rebound.
In any event, given the economy of this approach
plus the benifits of eliminating accidents due to
blow-outs plus the fact that no NEW technology
has to be developed plus that older vehicles can
be retrofitted at comparatively low cost ... I
think the idea's a winner.
BlackWater
Bastards (kinda) stole my great idea !!! :-)
UGLY-looking wheel though ... I suppose it could
be dressed-up ...
I've also heard of foam-filled tires (tend to run hot
and the foam breaks-down). There's some other guy who
wants to make solid tires out of urethane 'rubber' too.
The cops would be mightily peeved about unpuncturable
tires though ... they've all invested a lot of money
in those 'stop sticks'. Of course a 30-06 bullet
fired down through the hood from a helicopter will
bring the car to a rapid halt too .....
Anyway, *my* idea works best with metal-spoked
wheel rims, where the rim comes all the way down
to within an inch of the pavement. You see almost
the same thing now on 'low rider' cars ...
dlzc1 D:cox T:net@nospam.com N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)
"BlackWater" <b...@barrk.net> wrote in message
news:4256ead4...@news.east.earthlink.net...
They are recycling ALL tires for this use.
>>Now if I can figure out why I pay a fee for
>>disposal of the used tire, and taxes pay
>>for the fellow to coat the road... ;>)
>
> It's a scheme to make MORE MONEY of course ...
>
> If they quit doing that, they'd just have to raise
> fees or taxes elsewhere.
Agreed.
>>As to your assumption that any amount of mass
>>can be added to the "unsprung weight", to help
>>absorb shocks, better guess again.
>
> What I'm proposing would have LESS mass than a
> traditional tire - ten, maybe twenty percent less.
> The less unsprung mass, the easier for the suspension
> system. The 'metal retaining ring' for the rubber
> tread would be quite THIN sheet metal, just something
> you clamp to when attaching the thing to the wheel
> rim. Envision little slotted tabs every couple of
> inches. You place a ring or cover with L-shaped
> catches along the edge over it, twist to lock, and
> then apply a retaining bolt or something so the thing
> can't unscrew.
With geomtery this thin, then you have no hope of supporting a
car. A pneumatic tire is not as heavy as you think, and supports
thousands of pounds.
>>As to your assumption that heat transfer would
>>be improved, better guess again. Same area,
>>same load, same distortion, same heating.
>
> BUT - since the back surface of the tread is
> in direct contact with a metal 'heat-sink'
> instead of a pocket of insulating air ...
Terminal temperature is all that you are affecting. The losses
are the same.
> Also, a lot of the 'distortion' you're talking about
> in a traditional tire is SIDEWALL flex. This design
> eliminates the sidewalls.
AND any method of supporting a vehicle, or restoring the "rim" to
its original shape after a deflection.
>>If you are talking about a solid rim with rubber
>>bonded to it, I would think you've never ridden
>>a bicycle with a bent rim. We drive on real
>>roads, with real objects on them. You'll not
>>get cheaper than a "standard" pneumatic tire.
>>Quite forgiving of hitting a pipe or lawn chair
>>at 80 kph. NO solid rim would be.
>
> I think I addressed that issue in two ways.
>
> First, modern automobile suspension systems
> are a lot better than on your old bicycle.
No. They are tuned to the range of frequencies that are passed
through by pneumatic tires. Running on "rims only" even padded
ones, makes the suspension system transparent. The whole car
rattles.
> Existing
> suspensions could be 'tuned' better for the
> hard tires and new cars could be optimized
> from the drawing-board up.
Not without increasing upsprung weight.
> Electronic-assisted suspension
> seems a coming thing anyway
Already here. And damned expensive to maintain.
> - and that would be even easier to tune to
> accomodate hard tires.
No. You end up with air shocks of some sort, so there is your
pneumatic barrier again.
> The second option I offered was to substitute
> flexible tires with more flexible wheel rims.
> The olde tyme spoked rims offered a certain
> amount of flex. Using curved sections for solid
> rims would achieve a similar effect. Think of
> two slightly hemispherical discs of springy
> sheet steel - hitting a bump causes them to
> pooch outwards slightly. These are undamped
> of course, so your suspension system has to
> be able to deal with the rebound.
Lunar rover wheels. You'll drive my taxes up, paying for the
damage you'd cause to the roads?
> In any event, given the economy of this approach
> plus the benifits of eliminating accidents due to
> blow-outs
They have low air sensors in/for wheels now. You get warned
before the tire is low enough to blowout from overheating. Quite
a lifesaver.
> plus the fact that no NEW technology
> has to be developed plus that older vehicles can
> be retrofitted at comparatively low cost ... I
> think the idea's a winner.
Room for improvement? Yes. But you have offered no answer.
Your rims don't restore to shape once deflected.
David A. Smith
Magnulus
Silical and various plastic compounds added to tires will make them longer
lasting, easier rolling, with longer life.
In the future, cars might not have tires at all- they might have wheels
like small lawnmowers. But that's a ways away yet.