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Stop repression and self-immolation will stop: Sikyong
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Peter Terpstra
Oct 28, 2012, 10:21:26 AM10/28/12
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Stop repression and self-immolation will stop: Sikyong
October 27, 2012 1:14 pm
Torino, 26 October: Today two Tibetans self-immolated in Tibet. It is the 5th incident in less than 7 days. The total
number of Tibetans who have self-immolated since February 2009 is now 60.
“Stop the repression and self-immolation would stop,” said Sikyong Dr Lobsang Sangay during his address to the
Regional Council of Piemonte, Torino, Italy.
There is no space for protest in Tibet, thus the Tibetans are resorting to self-immolation. In late June, a 17-year-old
girl named Jigme Dolma protested in Kardze region of eastern Tibet. The Chinese security forces beat her and two
months later, she was sentenced to three years imprisonment.
“Political repression, economic marginalisation, environmental destruction and cultural assimilation in Tibet by the
Chinese government are leading to self-immolations by the Tibetans,” Dr. Sangay said.
The Tibetan political leader thanked the members of the Regional Council of Piemonte for their support. “I urge you to
call on the Chinese government to solve the Tibetan issue peacefully,” he said.
In honour of Sikyong Dr. Lobsang Sangay’s visit to the Regional Council of Piemonte, the Tibetan national anthem was
sung before Dr. Sangay’s address to the Council members and guest.
The visit coincided with the 10th anniversary since the Association for Tibet and human rights in the Regional Council of
Piemonte was established. It was previously called the Association of Municipalities, Provinces and Regions for Tibet.
Sikyong Dr Lobsang Sangay met Mr Valerio Cattaneo, the President of the Regional Council of Piemonte at his office
and Mr Giampiero Leo, the President of the Association for Tibet and human rights.
Mr Giampiero Leo and Dr Sangay jointly addressed a press conference. Both local and national media covered the
Tibetan political leader’s visit to Torino.
In the evening a public talk by Dr Sangay was held at the Natural Science Museum in Torino. The region’s lawyers
association hosted the public talk.
“During His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s visit to Torino in 2007,” Dr Sangay said, “you all were able to see and hear His
Holiness speak. Similarly, the Tibetans in Tibet are demanding His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s return so that they can see
and hear him.”
Unfortunately, the response from the Chinese authorities is repression, he added.
“In Tibet today, there are more Chinese than Tibetans, more troops than Tibetan monks and more surveillance
cameras than windows, more guns than Tibetan butter lamps,” Dr Sangay said.
The Tibetan political leader said that the Middle Way approach policy is seeking genuine autonomy and not seeking
separation from China.
Tomorrow Sikyong Dr Lobsang Sangay leaves for India.
http://tinyurl.com/8wg5h4r
--
A beautiful song from Tibet
I miss Dalai Lama
http://youtu.be/_zo3kYvJr38
October 27, 2012 1:14 pm
Torino, 26 October: Today two Tibetans self-immolated in Tibet. It is the 5th incident in less than 7 days. The total
number of Tibetans who have self-immolated since February 2009 is now 60.
“Stop the repression and self-immolation would stop,” said Sikyong Dr Lobsang Sangay during his address to the
Regional Council of Piemonte, Torino, Italy.
There is no space for protest in Tibet, thus the Tibetans are resorting to self-immolation. In late June, a 17-year-old
girl named Jigme Dolma protested in Kardze region of eastern Tibet. The Chinese security forces beat her and two
months later, she was sentenced to three years imprisonment.
“Political repression, economic marginalisation, environmental destruction and cultural assimilation in Tibet by the
Chinese government are leading to self-immolations by the Tibetans,” Dr. Sangay said.
The Tibetan political leader thanked the members of the Regional Council of Piemonte for their support. “I urge you to
call on the Chinese government to solve the Tibetan issue peacefully,” he said.
In honour of Sikyong Dr. Lobsang Sangay’s visit to the Regional Council of Piemonte, the Tibetan national anthem was
sung before Dr. Sangay’s address to the Council members and guest.
The visit coincided with the 10th anniversary since the Association for Tibet and human rights in the Regional Council of
Piemonte was established. It was previously called the Association of Municipalities, Provinces and Regions for Tibet.
Sikyong Dr Lobsang Sangay met Mr Valerio Cattaneo, the President of the Regional Council of Piemonte at his office
and Mr Giampiero Leo, the President of the Association for Tibet and human rights.
Mr Giampiero Leo and Dr Sangay jointly addressed a press conference. Both local and national media covered the
Tibetan political leader’s visit to Torino.
In the evening a public talk by Dr Sangay was held at the Natural Science Museum in Torino. The region’s lawyers
association hosted the public talk.
“During His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s visit to Torino in 2007,” Dr Sangay said, “you all were able to see and hear His
Holiness speak. Similarly, the Tibetans in Tibet are demanding His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s return so that they can see
and hear him.”
Unfortunately, the response from the Chinese authorities is repression, he added.
“In Tibet today, there are more Chinese than Tibetans, more troops than Tibetan monks and more surveillance
cameras than windows, more guns than Tibetan butter lamps,” Dr Sangay said.
The Tibetan political leader said that the Middle Way approach policy is seeking genuine autonomy and not seeking
separation from China.
Tomorrow Sikyong Dr Lobsang Sangay leaves for India.
http://tinyurl.com/8wg5h4r
--
A beautiful song from Tibet
I miss Dalai Lama
http://youtu.be/_zo3kYvJr38
lo yeeOn
Oct 28, 2012, 8:00:38 PM10/28/12
to
In article <5139495.U2x8D1RKfZ@Dharma>,
that is what kind of conduct from a sovereign country to its people
can be legitimately regarded as repression, then maybe someone can
decide whether it is the cause of self-immolation and whether the
latter can be stopped.
In other words, how does his exile government's demand that Tibet be
given "meaningful autonomy" interact with its concession that Tibet is
a part of China, and therefore subject to Chinese rule of law?
I further believe that the mass protest in 2008 on the eve of the
Beijing Summer Olympics and the latest round of self-immolations are
all a part of the exile government's calculated effort to try to put
pressure on Beijing to bend to its demand. But the demand is vague
and non-specific, i.e., it lacks transparency or concreteness. As a
result, the effort, no matter how grusome or horrifying, is doomed
from the start.
China under the CCP may not last. But the Tibet envisioned by the
exile government is medieval and detrimental to the well-being of the
Tibetan people.
lo yeeOn
Peter Terpstra <pe...@dharma.dyndns.info> wrote:
>Stop repression and self-immolation will stop: Sikyong
>October 27, 2012 1:14 pm
I sincerely doubt that! If this guy can first define "repression",
>Stop repression and self-immolation will stop: Sikyong
>October 27, 2012 1:14 pm
that is what kind of conduct from a sovereign country to its people
can be legitimately regarded as repression, then maybe someone can
decide whether it is the cause of self-immolation and whether the
latter can be stopped.
In other words, how does his exile government's demand that Tibet be
given "meaningful autonomy" interact with its concession that Tibet is
a part of China, and therefore subject to Chinese rule of law?
I further believe that the mass protest in 2008 on the eve of the
Beijing Summer Olympics and the latest round of self-immolations are
all a part of the exile government's calculated effort to try to put
pressure on Beijing to bend to its demand. But the demand is vague
and non-specific, i.e., it lacks transparency or concreteness. As a
result, the effort, no matter how grusome or horrifying, is doomed
from the start.
China under the CCP may not last. But the Tibet envisioned by the
exile government is medieval and detrimental to the well-being of the
Tibetan people.
lo yeeOn
bmo...@nyx.net
Oct 28, 2012, 8:23:09 PM10/28/12
to
On Oct 28, 5:00 pm, acous...@panix.com (lo yeeOn) wrote:
> In article <5139495.U2x8D1RKfZ@Dharma>,
> Peter Terpstra <pe...@dharma.dyndns.info> wrote:
>
> >Stop repression and self-immolation will stop: Sikyong
> >October 27, 2012 1:14 pm
>
> I sincerely doubt that! If this guy can first define "repression",
> In article <5139495.U2x8D1RKfZ@Dharma>,
> Peter Terpstra <pe...@dharma.dyndns.info> wrote:
>
> >Stop repression and self-immolation will stop: Sikyong
> >October 27, 2012 1:14 pm
>
> I sincerely doubt that! If this guy can first define "repression",
rst0
Oct 28, 2012, 9:18:22 PM10/28/12
to
The less Tibetans around, the better off for China. It means more
land for the Han people.
Peter Terpstra
Oct 29, 2012, 5:22:09 AM10/29/12
to
lo yeeOn wrote:
> Define repression first because a meaningful discussion can get started.
Oh yes, to investigate our own mind will bring good fortune to everyone.
"what is the deeper or deepest motivation behind our actions"?
Who are we really???
How can we investigate our own mind and find meaningfully answers?
What is an answer and why are we looking for this?
Thank you for this inspiration!
Love & Peace, Peter
> Define repression first because a meaningful discussion can get started.
Oh yes, to investigate our own mind will bring good fortune to everyone.
"what is the deeper or deepest motivation behind our actions"?
Who are we really???
How can we investigate our own mind and find meaningfully answers?
What is an answer and why are we looking for this?
Thank you for this inspiration!
Love & Peace, Peter
lo yeeOn
Oct 29, 2012, 9:00:09 PM10/29/12
to
In article <b2e4d9a0-114d-4a7b...@wa15g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>,
So, this is what "repression" they are referring to. Ok, if the CCP
took this as "Sikyong"'s definition for "repression" and ran with it,
i.e., allowed everybody who goes around and calling for the return of
this and that to return in public, would it, i.e., the government in
Beijing still has any sovereignty left?
DHARAMSHALA, September 8: A Chinese court in eastern Tibet has
sentenced a teenaged-Tibetan girl to three years in prison for
carrying out a protest demanding the return of the Dalai Lama and
Tibet's freedom.
Jigme Dolma, 17, was sentenced on August 25 for committing actions
aimed at "splitting China," exile media outlets have reported.
And this is from your USAID Tibet Education Project, your kind of
organization:
Tibetan teen sentenced to three years for peaceful protest
Phayul[Saturday, September 08, 2012 23:56]
http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=32078&t=1
So, the young lady was there to "protest demanding the return of the
Dalai Lama and Tibet's freedom"!
Hmmmmm....
Look, you, Mr. Moore - your buddy Hard-Yards call you this, so I can
assume that I got your name and sex correctly, are so indignant about
"space" for peaceful protests. So, whatever happens to the Occupy XYZ
protests in the United States? UC Davis students were pepper-sprayed
for their peaceful protests even though they were not calling for the
return of some Native American Indian Chiefs or the Queen of England
to return and rule overn this country! Same thing with Cal Berkeley.
Same thing with many other colleges where similar peaceful protests
were staged last year.
But because of the determination and brutality of the police forces in
cooperation with the administrations who are ruled by presidents and
chancellors who are paid huge sums for salaries and perks annually and
whose appointments were pushed through fascist-style by boards
controlled by Washington insiders. A famous example is billionaire
Richard Blum (husband of US Senator Dianne Feinstein) who together
have made billions from the war on terror building projects in
Afghanistan and sucking money out of the American's tax money. So,
students are protesting, workeres are protesting in our country, yet
were they given the "space" to protest? No, the protests were put
down and people were driven out from public parks, beaten, shot at,
and/or given jail sentences.
And was Bradley Manning given the space to make his peaceful protest
despite the fact that his contribution has so greatly expanded our
knowledge of our government's war crime involvement. I think you
should wear a free Bradley Manning shirt anywhere you go to show how
serious you are for the freedom and "space" for peaceful protests.
So, Obama and his sycophants accused Manning of treason-like activity
for revealing their war crime activity. Try to put yourself into the
CCP's shoes! What that Dolma girl was doing is exactly calling for
the independence of Tibet. She was also calling for the return of Da
Lama, a person known to have worked for the spy agency of a foreign
country and continued to be involved in subversive activities against
the sovereignty of China.
So, how does the exile government reconcile its third-way stand: that
it accepts Chinese sovereignty over Tibet while requiring autonomy?
That's exactly my question: How does this spokesman for the exile
government intends for their "autonomy" to _interact_ with China's
sovereignty?
How?
How do China's sovereignty over Tibet interact with Tibet's autonomy?
If "splitting China" protests are what they want to have the freedom
to express freely, then clearly it is a meaningless bargaining
position for Da Lama's people to offer to the Chinese government as
the starting point for their negotiation for "meaningful" autonomy -
because no sovereign government would be able to accept this kind of
position that would lead the country to fall apart.
Can you imagine people start going inside China and call for Chiang
Kei-Shek's grandson or Prince Harry (QEII's grandson) to go to China
or Hong Kong to rule the different places? It is clear that with so
much CIA and NED money floating around and so many people going in and
out of CHina today, all kinds of people would be able to stage
protests of all sorts and before the cock crows thrice, China will be
Balkanized!!!
Finally, what the exile-government is saying, when its representatives
say, "stop the repression, self-immolations will stop". It sounds
exactly like an organization that has been urging (or even paying for)
the ongoing terrorism: self-immolations. It's like bin Laden calling
for Jihad. It was like Saddam promising to take care of the family of
the suicide bombers in the good ole days. It sounds like the people
in Dharamsala was calling the shots. They could just call it off if
"repression" would stop! Just exactly how many protests would have to
be staged before the CCP would be tested enough to prove that it has
stopped its "repression" against any and all kind of protests ordered
from Dharamsala?
The self-immolations, are no doubt in my mind, incited from the
outside.
Just consider Lhamo Tseten. Look at the picture of him with his young
bride. This ruggedly handsome young man in western attire strikes me
as the Tibetan analog of the Muslim jihadist. Why do they have this
photo by a "citizen journalist", instead of a friend or relative. The
story doesn't say where he came from. It only told of the place where
his iconic burning death took place. Neither he nor his bride looked
happy as young Romeo and Juliet. The bride even looked apprehensive.
And the picture was taken by a "photo-journalist", which suggests that
they interacted only for a particular reason. It was the jihad he was
about to wage in Tibet, wasn't it? The marriage and the last meal at
the restaurant with friends were just the experience he felt he ought
to have before dying for Da Lama, wasn't it? It reminds me so much of
those poignant suicide bombers' stories - leaving a beautiful wife and
a bunch of adorable young children behind for Allah. In the end of
the day, the narrative just breaks down.
Who is calling the shots for these self-immolations? How can they be
so sure that they will stop when "repression" stops?
Define "repression" - make it concrete and specific - so that talk can
proceed! Is it doable for any government?
When do you consider "repression" to cease - make it concrete and
specific - so that the other side can consider whether it is doable.
Specify how your notion of "autonomy" interact with your idea of
China's sovereignty over Tibet so that everybody can see if your
"third way" is meaningful.
Right now, the western narrative is always using the deceit of the
media to condemn China about something no western government is
capable of practicing under similar situation.
So stop the hypocrisy and just let a guy like Lhamo Tseten and the
rest of the 60 plus iconic figures fight for the return of Da Lama and
the independence of Tibet, instead of restraining them to a pointless
and painful death, for propaganda purposes. These people may or may
not succeed picking up arms to fight the PLA - they may not because
they haven't had the decades of training like the PLA had before they
were able to overrun Chiang Kei-shek's army and because Da Lama has
never given them enough encouragement to study and become smart
fighters to defeat an enemy - but at least they ought to do something
less pathetic than die on behalf of the Voice of America and the New
York Times.
The sad fact however is the Tibetans have been institutionally
repressed by Da Lama's theocracy for so many centuries that when they
want to give up their precious lives, they couldn't even do it for a
better cause than to call for Da Lama to return and live for thousands
of years more.
If Lhamo Tseten had any brain, he would want to live and produce nice
children to form a modern Genghis Khan army to fight for Tibet's
independence instead of staying in the Middle Ages, which is exactly
what Da Lama and his cronies stand for.
The worst thing is these people who gave up their lives or were about
to didn't even known about how frivolous His Holiness was, giving
interviews to newspapers to western newspapers gossiping and joking
about what he did or did not tell Barack Obama in his last visit to
the White House even as they were dying for him to live another ten
thousand years - that he was telling Obama that the CCP had only half
a brain.
Jesus Christ, how does a joke about the CCP having only half a brain
help solve any problem in Tibet, _if_ Tibet were truly burning!
And he was recalling his jokes to newspapers while Tibet was burning?
Da Lama was clearly not feeling the pain of the people who were
burning or whose loved ones were burning.
Life was so good for Da Lama, isn't it?
It's sickening!
But no, Mister Moore and Hard-Yards just keep pushing Da Lama and his
"peaceful" protests to create an iconic image that "Tibet is burning"
- you guys don't give a damn about the Tibetans. All you do is to
help keep Da Lama doing the sinister things of pushing the western
agenda - to destabilize China at the expense of the ignorant Tibetans
who did know better except to die and die in vain.
The greats indictment of a "burning" Tibet is the narrative which
encourages the destruction of human lives. I can't imagine people
from anywhere else in the world would throw away their lives for the
deliberately vague and unimpelmentable demands Da Lama's people want
from China.
These western-backed renegades don't give a damn about the ordinary
people. They just want the image of burning. They even spend a lot
of money and ink to print those full-color signs showing an iconic
fire surrounding the English word "TIBET" that protesters hold up at
protests so that the VOA or the NYT can print them and so that their
western readers who can't read Tibetans can understand the message:
"Tibet is burning".
It's so sophomore-ish, so sickening.
lo yeeOn
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Take a good look at Lhamo Tseten in this photo taken by a "citizen
journalist"!!!
This citizen journalist photograph shows Lhamo Tseten, who
self-immolated, October 26, 2012, in Sangchu county, and his wife
Tsering Lhamo.
http://gdb.voanews.eu/21CFDFB2-18B9-4136-8FD6-6F83A1311715_w640_r1_s_cx0_cy4_cw0.jpg
VOA News
October 26, 2012
Anger and despair appear to be consuming Tibetan areas of China, where
at least four more Tibetans have set themselves on fire to protest
Chinese rule.
The most recent self-immolation took place Friday night in Sankok
township in Sangchu county, in China's northwestern Gansu province. A
photo obtained by VOA Tibetan shows 23-year-old Tsepak Kyap engulfed
in flames near a bus stop.
Witnesses say Kyap suffered severe burns. It is not known if he
survived. Sources say he was married to an 18-year-old wife, Dorje
Dolma.
Earlier Friday, 24-year-old Lhamo Tseten died after walking out of a
restaurant and setting himself on fire in Amchok township in Sangchu
county.
Following Tseten's self-immolation, the London-based rights group Free
Tibet said there were reports of Chinese security forces quickly
moving into the area.
. . .
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In article <5139495.U2x8D1RKfZ@Dharma>,
Peter Terpstra <pe...@dharma.dyndns.info> wrote:
>Stop repression and self-immolation will stop: Sikyong
>October 27, 2012 1:14 pm
I sincerely doubt that! If this guy can first define "repression",
And here, the US Army's perspective for what a "Tibet Native" should
be doing - he may not have learned the Tibetan culture by running to
India and than landing on America, but he is working hard to fight the
Taliban instead of killing himself for Da Lama.
Tibet Native Earns U.S. Citizenship as Marine
Oct 25, 2012
American Forces Press Service| by Sgt. James Mercure
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2012/10/25/tibet-native-earns-us-citizenship-as-marine.html?comp=7000023468045&rank=1
FORWARD OPERATING BASE SABIT QADAM, Afghanistan - For Marine Corps
Lance Cpl. Tashi Dhondup, leaving Lhasa, Tibet, and moving to northern
India to practice his religion and learn about his culture was the
first step on his journey of becoming a U.S. citizen.
"When I was 8, my family ran away from Tibet because there is no
freedom of religion, no freedom to learn our own language," said the
supply warehouseman with 2nd Battalion, 7th Marines, Regimental Combat
Team 6. "We moved to India so we could study our own language and
learn our culture."
After going to a boarding school in India until the eighth grade and
learning Hindi, one of the most commonly spoken Indian languages, he
left for the United States in search of more opportunities for his
family. "I was at school in India, and my mom told me we would have a
better life in the United States," Dhondup explained. "We moved to
Jersey City, N.J., and after six months there, we moved to
Connecticut. I've always wanted to serve in the military. I had a
language teacher who taught me English. He had been in the Army, but
he told me to join the Marines because it was tougher and better."
When Dhondup turned 18, he joined the Marine Corps to protect a
country that was not yet his own. "I applied to become an American
citizen last March, and when I was in [Enhanced Mojave Viper] training
before our deployment, my citizenship paperwork was approved," he
said.
"I took the oath for citizenship July 25, 2012, and it meant a lot to
me," Dhondup said. "Because we ran from Tibet, if we had returned
without citizenship, we would be put in prison. Now that I am an
American, I can visit where I came from without fear, and I can return
to my new home with no problems."
When he returns home on leave, it is evident to his friends that his
experiences in life and in the Marine Corps have given him an
increased maturity level, Dhondup said.
"I'm glad I'm an American now, but I do miss where I came from," he
added. "A lot of my friends complain about little things. Going home
on leave and being in the uniform means more, and if they were to step
in my shoes, they wouldn't have anything to complain about."
Dhondup's work ethic is evident to his fellow Marines.
"He is the only supply warehouseman out here, and he was handpicked to
deploy," said Marine Corps Staff Sgt. Terrell Kelly, the battalion's
supply chief. "He is one of the hardest-working Marines we have in
our shop. He will take an order and actually execute as if he were
corporal or a sergeant."
took this as "Sikyong"'s definition for "repression" and ran with it,
i.e., allowed everybody who goes around and calling for the return of
this and that to return in public, would it, i.e., the government in
Beijing still has any sovereignty left?
DHARAMSHALA, September 8: A Chinese court in eastern Tibet has
sentenced a teenaged-Tibetan girl to three years in prison for
carrying out a protest demanding the return of the Dalai Lama and
Tibet's freedom.
Jigme Dolma, 17, was sentenced on August 25 for committing actions
aimed at "splitting China," exile media outlets have reported.
And this is from your USAID Tibet Education Project, your kind of
organization:
Tibetan teen sentenced to three years for peaceful protest
Phayul[Saturday, September 08, 2012 23:56]
http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=32078&t=1
So, the young lady was there to "protest demanding the return of the
Dalai Lama and Tibet's freedom"!
Hmmmmm....
Look, you, Mr. Moore - your buddy Hard-Yards call you this, so I can
assume that I got your name and sex correctly, are so indignant about
"space" for peaceful protests. So, whatever happens to the Occupy XYZ
protests in the United States? UC Davis students were pepper-sprayed
for their peaceful protests even though they were not calling for the
return of some Native American Indian Chiefs or the Queen of England
to return and rule overn this country! Same thing with Cal Berkeley.
Same thing with many other colleges where similar peaceful protests
were staged last year.
But because of the determination and brutality of the police forces in
cooperation with the administrations who are ruled by presidents and
chancellors who are paid huge sums for salaries and perks annually and
whose appointments were pushed through fascist-style by boards
controlled by Washington insiders. A famous example is billionaire
Richard Blum (husband of US Senator Dianne Feinstein) who together
have made billions from the war on terror building projects in
Afghanistan and sucking money out of the American's tax money. So,
students are protesting, workeres are protesting in our country, yet
were they given the "space" to protest? No, the protests were put
down and people were driven out from public parks, beaten, shot at,
and/or given jail sentences.
And was Bradley Manning given the space to make his peaceful protest
despite the fact that his contribution has so greatly expanded our
knowledge of our government's war crime involvement. I think you
should wear a free Bradley Manning shirt anywhere you go to show how
serious you are for the freedom and "space" for peaceful protests.
So, Obama and his sycophants accused Manning of treason-like activity
for revealing their war crime activity. Try to put yourself into the
CCP's shoes! What that Dolma girl was doing is exactly calling for
the independence of Tibet. She was also calling for the return of Da
Lama, a person known to have worked for the spy agency of a foreign
country and continued to be involved in subversive activities against
the sovereignty of China.
So, how does the exile government reconcile its third-way stand: that
it accepts Chinese sovereignty over Tibet while requiring autonomy?
That's exactly my question: How does this spokesman for the exile
government intends for their "autonomy" to _interact_ with China's
sovereignty?
How?
How do China's sovereignty over Tibet interact with Tibet's autonomy?
If "splitting China" protests are what they want to have the freedom
to express freely, then clearly it is a meaningless bargaining
position for Da Lama's people to offer to the Chinese government as
the starting point for their negotiation for "meaningful" autonomy -
because no sovereign government would be able to accept this kind of
position that would lead the country to fall apart.
Can you imagine people start going inside China and call for Chiang
Kei-Shek's grandson or Prince Harry (QEII's grandson) to go to China
or Hong Kong to rule the different places? It is clear that with so
much CIA and NED money floating around and so many people going in and
out of CHina today, all kinds of people would be able to stage
protests of all sorts and before the cock crows thrice, China will be
Balkanized!!!
Finally, what the exile-government is saying, when its representatives
say, "stop the repression, self-immolations will stop". It sounds
exactly like an organization that has been urging (or even paying for)
the ongoing terrorism: self-immolations. It's like bin Laden calling
for Jihad. It was like Saddam promising to take care of the family of
the suicide bombers in the good ole days. It sounds like the people
in Dharamsala was calling the shots. They could just call it off if
"repression" would stop! Just exactly how many protests would have to
be staged before the CCP would be tested enough to prove that it has
stopped its "repression" against any and all kind of protests ordered
from Dharamsala?
The self-immolations, are no doubt in my mind, incited from the
outside.
Just consider Lhamo Tseten. Look at the picture of him with his young
bride. This ruggedly handsome young man in western attire strikes me
as the Tibetan analog of the Muslim jihadist. Why do they have this
photo by a "citizen journalist", instead of a friend or relative. The
story doesn't say where he came from. It only told of the place where
his iconic burning death took place. Neither he nor his bride looked
happy as young Romeo and Juliet. The bride even looked apprehensive.
And the picture was taken by a "photo-journalist", which suggests that
they interacted only for a particular reason. It was the jihad he was
about to wage in Tibet, wasn't it? The marriage and the last meal at
the restaurant with friends were just the experience he felt he ought
to have before dying for Da Lama, wasn't it? It reminds me so much of
those poignant suicide bombers' stories - leaving a beautiful wife and
a bunch of adorable young children behind for Allah. In the end of
the day, the narrative just breaks down.
Who is calling the shots for these self-immolations? How can they be
so sure that they will stop when "repression" stops?
Define "repression" - make it concrete and specific - so that talk can
proceed! Is it doable for any government?
When do you consider "repression" to cease - make it concrete and
specific - so that the other side can consider whether it is doable.
Specify how your notion of "autonomy" interact with your idea of
China's sovereignty over Tibet so that everybody can see if your
"third way" is meaningful.
Right now, the western narrative is always using the deceit of the
media to condemn China about something no western government is
capable of practicing under similar situation.
So stop the hypocrisy and just let a guy like Lhamo Tseten and the
rest of the 60 plus iconic figures fight for the return of Da Lama and
the independence of Tibet, instead of restraining them to a pointless
and painful death, for propaganda purposes. These people may or may
not succeed picking up arms to fight the PLA - they may not because
they haven't had the decades of training like the PLA had before they
were able to overrun Chiang Kei-shek's army and because Da Lama has
never given them enough encouragement to study and become smart
fighters to defeat an enemy - but at least they ought to do something
less pathetic than die on behalf of the Voice of America and the New
York Times.
The sad fact however is the Tibetans have been institutionally
repressed by Da Lama's theocracy for so many centuries that when they
want to give up their precious lives, they couldn't even do it for a
better cause than to call for Da Lama to return and live for thousands
of years more.
If Lhamo Tseten had any brain, he would want to live and produce nice
children to form a modern Genghis Khan army to fight for Tibet's
independence instead of staying in the Middle Ages, which is exactly
what Da Lama and his cronies stand for.
The worst thing is these people who gave up their lives or were about
to didn't even known about how frivolous His Holiness was, giving
interviews to newspapers to western newspapers gossiping and joking
about what he did or did not tell Barack Obama in his last visit to
the White House even as they were dying for him to live another ten
thousand years - that he was telling Obama that the CCP had only half
a brain.
Jesus Christ, how does a joke about the CCP having only half a brain
help solve any problem in Tibet, _if_ Tibet were truly burning!
And he was recalling his jokes to newspapers while Tibet was burning?
Da Lama was clearly not feeling the pain of the people who were
burning or whose loved ones were burning.
Life was so good for Da Lama, isn't it?
It's sickening!
But no, Mister Moore and Hard-Yards just keep pushing Da Lama and his
"peaceful" protests to create an iconic image that "Tibet is burning"
- you guys don't give a damn about the Tibetans. All you do is to
help keep Da Lama doing the sinister things of pushing the western
agenda - to destabilize China at the expense of the ignorant Tibetans
who did know better except to die and die in vain.
The greats indictment of a "burning" Tibet is the narrative which
encourages the destruction of human lives. I can't imagine people
from anywhere else in the world would throw away their lives for the
deliberately vague and unimpelmentable demands Da Lama's people want
from China.
These western-backed renegades don't give a damn about the ordinary
people. They just want the image of burning. They even spend a lot
of money and ink to print those full-color signs showing an iconic
fire surrounding the English word "TIBET" that protesters hold up at
protests so that the VOA or the NYT can print them and so that their
western readers who can't read Tibetans can understand the message:
"Tibet is burning".
It's so sophomore-ish, so sickening.
lo yeeOn
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Take a good look at Lhamo Tseten in this photo taken by a "citizen
journalist"!!!
This citizen journalist photograph shows Lhamo Tseten, who
self-immolated, October 26, 2012, in Sangchu county, and his wife
Tsering Lhamo.
http://gdb.voanews.eu/21CFDFB2-18B9-4136-8FD6-6F83A1311715_w640_r1_s_cx0_cy4_cw0.jpg
VOA News
October 26, 2012
Anger and despair appear to be consuming Tibetan areas of China, where
at least four more Tibetans have set themselves on fire to protest
Chinese rule.
The most recent self-immolation took place Friday night in Sankok
township in Sangchu county, in China's northwestern Gansu province. A
photo obtained by VOA Tibetan shows 23-year-old Tsepak Kyap engulfed
in flames near a bus stop.
Witnesses say Kyap suffered severe burns. It is not known if he
survived. Sources say he was married to an 18-year-old wife, Dorje
Dolma.
Earlier Friday, 24-year-old Lhamo Tseten died after walking out of a
restaurant and setting himself on fire in Amchok township in Sangchu
county.
Following Tseten's self-immolation, the London-based rights group Free
Tibet said there were reports of Chinese security forces quickly
moving into the area.
. . .
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In article <5139495.U2x8D1RKfZ@Dharma>,
Peter Terpstra <pe...@dharma.dyndns.info> wrote:
>Stop repression and self-immolation will stop: Sikyong
>October 27, 2012 1:14 pm
I sincerely doubt that! If this guy can first define "repression",
that is what kind of conduct from a sovereign country to its people
can be legitimately regarded as repression, then maybe someone can
decide whether it is the cause of self-immolation and whether the
latter can be stopped.
In other words, how does his exile government's demand that Tibet be
given "meaningful autonomy" interact with its concession that Tibet is
a part of China, and therefore subject to Chinese rule of law?
I further believe that the mass protest in 2008 on the eve of the
Beijing Summer Olympics and the latest round of self-immolations are
all a part of the exile government's calculated effort to try to put
pressure on Beijing to bend to its demand. But the demand is vague
and non-specific, i.e., it lacks transparency or concreteness. As a
result, the effort, no matter how grusome or horrifying, is doomed
from the start.
China under the CCP may not last. But the Tibet envisioned by the
exile government is medieval and detrimental to the well-being of the
Tibetan people.
lo yeeOn
-----------------------------
can be legitimately regarded as repression, then maybe someone can
decide whether it is the cause of self-immolation and whether the
latter can be stopped.
In other words, how does his exile government's demand that Tibet be
given "meaningful autonomy" interact with its concession that Tibet is
a part of China, and therefore subject to Chinese rule of law?
I further believe that the mass protest in 2008 on the eve of the
Beijing Summer Olympics and the latest round of self-immolations are
all a part of the exile government's calculated effort to try to put
pressure on Beijing to bend to its demand. But the demand is vague
and non-specific, i.e., it lacks transparency or concreteness. As a
result, the effort, no matter how grusome or horrifying, is doomed
from the start.
China under the CCP may not last. But the Tibet envisioned by the
exile government is medieval and detrimental to the well-being of the
Tibetan people.
lo yeeOn
And here, the US Army's perspective for what a "Tibet Native" should
be doing - he may not have learned the Tibetan culture by running to
India and than landing on America, but he is working hard to fight the
Taliban instead of killing himself for Da Lama.
Tibet Native Earns U.S. Citizenship as Marine
Oct 25, 2012
American Forces Press Service| by Sgt. James Mercure
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2012/10/25/tibet-native-earns-us-citizenship-as-marine.html?comp=7000023468045&rank=1
FORWARD OPERATING BASE SABIT QADAM, Afghanistan - For Marine Corps
Lance Cpl. Tashi Dhondup, leaving Lhasa, Tibet, and moving to northern
India to practice his religion and learn about his culture was the
first step on his journey of becoming a U.S. citizen.
"When I was 8, my family ran away from Tibet because there is no
freedom of religion, no freedom to learn our own language," said the
supply warehouseman with 2nd Battalion, 7th Marines, Regimental Combat
Team 6. "We moved to India so we could study our own language and
learn our culture."
After going to a boarding school in India until the eighth grade and
learning Hindi, one of the most commonly spoken Indian languages, he
left for the United States in search of more opportunities for his
family. "I was at school in India, and my mom told me we would have a
better life in the United States," Dhondup explained. "We moved to
Jersey City, N.J., and after six months there, we moved to
Connecticut. I've always wanted to serve in the military. I had a
language teacher who taught me English. He had been in the Army, but
he told me to join the Marines because it was tougher and better."
When Dhondup turned 18, he joined the Marine Corps to protect a
country that was not yet his own. "I applied to become an American
citizen last March, and when I was in [Enhanced Mojave Viper] training
before our deployment, my citizenship paperwork was approved," he
said.
"I took the oath for citizenship July 25, 2012, and it meant a lot to
me," Dhondup said. "Because we ran from Tibet, if we had returned
without citizenship, we would be put in prison. Now that I am an
American, I can visit where I came from without fear, and I can return
to my new home with no problems."
When he returns home on leave, it is evident to his friends that his
experiences in life and in the Marine Corps have given him an
increased maturity level, Dhondup said.
"I'm glad I'm an American now, but I do miss where I came from," he
added. "A lot of my friends complain about little things. Going home
on leave and being in the uniform means more, and if they were to step
in my shoes, they wouldn't have anything to complain about."
Dhondup's work ethic is evident to his fellow Marines.
"He is the only supply warehouseman out here, and he was handpicked to
deploy," said Marine Corps Staff Sgt. Terrell Kelly, the battalion's
supply chief. "He is one of the hardest-working Marines we have in
our shop. He will take an order and actually execute as if he were
corporal or a sergeant."
lo yeeOn
Oct 29, 2012, 9:18:22 PM10/29/12
to
In article <1587464.NfgqYmHYvl@Dharma>,
those people who burned themselves to death. You're just like Da Lama
who were talking shop to western interviewers about how the CCP have
only half a brain, hehehe... when young men are burning themselves to
death because Da Lama and his cronies have been giving signals to them
to die - so that Da Lama can _Live_ and live for thousands more years.
How should China's sovereignty over Tibet interact with a Tibetan
autonomy as they envision?
That is a serious question. That is the key, according to that
spokesman of the Tibetans in exile, to whether self-immolations would
stop and therefore real people would stop dying. And yet, you are
talking about breeze and water. Do you realize what disservice you
have done to those Tibetans who are willing to die for your vision of
Tibet Independence? Do you realize that you and your ilk, like your
buddy Mr. Moore, have been giving them the false hope.
Sad, sad, sad!
Those Tibetan people who want to die for Da Lama to live ten thousand
more years have a Medieval mentality due to centuries of Tibetan
Buddhist brainwashing. They don't know better and you guys are
exploiting their ignorance to serve your own agenda and prolong their
suffering. The right thing for you, Mt. Moore, and them to do is to
go fight the PLA. At least they can inflict some real damage to the
enemy and maybe some day they can have what they want. But no, you
and Mr Moore just want them to do what you want them to do.
Sickening!
lo yeeOn
------------------------------------------------------------------------
In article <b2e4d9a0-114d-4a7b...@wa15g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>,
bmo...@nyx.net <bmo...@nyx.net> wrote:
>On Oct 28, 5:00 pm, acous...@panix.com (lo yeeOn) wrote:
Peter Terpstra <pe...@dharma.dyndns.info> wrote:
>lo yeeOn wrote:
>
>> Define repression first because a meaningful discussion can get started.
>
>Oh yes, to investigate our own mind will bring good fortune to everyone.
>
>"what is the deeper or deepest motivation behind our actions"?
>
>Who are we really???
>
>How can we investigate our own mind and find meaningfully answers?
>
>What is an answer and why are we looking for this?
>
>Thank you for this inspiration!
>
>
>Love & Peace, Peter
Hard-yards, do you realize how you're caricaturizing the suffering of
>lo yeeOn wrote:
>
>> Define repression first because a meaningful discussion can get started.
>
>Oh yes, to investigate our own mind will bring good fortune to everyone.
>
>"what is the deeper or deepest motivation behind our actions"?
>
>Who are we really???
>
>How can we investigate our own mind and find meaningfully answers?
>
>What is an answer and why are we looking for this?
>
>Thank you for this inspiration!
>
>
>Love & Peace, Peter
those people who burned themselves to death. You're just like Da Lama
who were talking shop to western interviewers about how the CCP have
only half a brain, hehehe... when young men are burning themselves to
death because Da Lama and his cronies have been giving signals to them
to die - so that Da Lama can _Live_ and live for thousands more years.
How should China's sovereignty over Tibet interact with a Tibetan
autonomy as they envision?
That is a serious question. That is the key, according to that
spokesman of the Tibetans in exile, to whether self-immolations would
stop and therefore real people would stop dying. And yet, you are
talking about breeze and water. Do you realize what disservice you
have done to those Tibetans who are willing to die for your vision of
Tibet Independence? Do you realize that you and your ilk, like your
buddy Mr. Moore, have been giving them the false hope.
Sad, sad, sad!
Those Tibetan people who want to die for Da Lama to live ten thousand
more years have a Medieval mentality due to centuries of Tibetan
Buddhist brainwashing. They don't know better and you guys are
exploiting their ignorance to serve your own agenda and prolong their
suffering. The right thing for you, Mt. Moore, and them to do is to
go fight the PLA. At least they can inflict some real damage to the
enemy and maybe some day they can have what they want. But no, you
and Mr Moore just want them to do what you want them to do.
Sickening!
lo yeeOn
------------------------------------------------------------------------
In article <b2e4d9a0-114d-4a7b...@wa15g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>,
bmo...@nyx.net <bmo...@nyx.net> wrote:
>On Oct 28, 5:00 pm, acous...@panix.com (lo yeeOn) wrote:
>> In article <5139495.U2x8D1RKfZ@Dharma>,
>> Peter Terpstra <pe...@dharma.dyndns.info> wrote:
>>
>> >Stop repression and self-immolation will stop: Sikyong
>> >October 27, 2012 1:14 pm
>>
>> I sincerely doubt that! If this guy can first define "repression",
>
>> Peter Terpstra <pe...@dharma.dyndns.info> wrote:
>>
>> >Stop repression and self-immolation will stop: Sikyong
>> >October 27, 2012 1:14 pm
>>
>> I sincerely doubt that! If this guy can first define "repression",
>
>"There is no space for protest in Tibet, thus the Tibetans are
>resorting to self-immolation. In late June, a 17-year-old girl named
>Jigme Dolma protested in Kardze region of eastern Tibet. The Chinese
>security forces beat her and two months later, she was sentenced to
>three years imprisonment."
>resorting to self-immolation. In late June, a 17-year-old girl named
>Jigme Dolma protested in Kardze region of eastern Tibet. The Chinese
>security forces beat her and two months later, she was sentenced to
>three years imprisonment."
Peter Terpstra
Oct 30, 2012, 4:43:08 AM10/30/12
to
lo yeeOn wrote:
> How should China's sovereignty over Tibet interact with Da Lama's vision
> of Tibetan autonomy as they talk about their third way while instigating
> China? Maybe Da Lama's jihadists should join the US Army to fight the
> Taliban in Afghanistan instead?
[...]
??????
Why do you steer up a whirlwind of illusions?
Wishing you Love & Peace, Peter
> How should China's sovereignty over Tibet interact with Da Lama's vision
> of Tibetan autonomy as they talk about their third way while instigating
> China? Maybe Da Lama's jihadists should join the US Army to fight the
> Taliban in Afghanistan instead?
[...]
??????
Why do you steer up a whirlwind of illusions?
Wishing you Love & Peace, Peter
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