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#Why the Occupy Movement Frightens the Corporate Elite
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May 14, 2012, 12:53:06 PM5/14/12
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the-corporate-elite
Why the Occupy Movement Frightens the Corporate Elite
Monday, 14 May 2012 10:17 By Chris Hedges, Truthdig | Op-Ed
In Robert E. Gamer's book "The Developing Nations" is a chapter called
"Why Men Do Not Revolt." In it Gamer notes that although the oppressed
often do revolt, the object of their hostility is misplaced. They vent
their fury on a political puppet, someone who masks colonial power, a
despised racial or ethnic group or an apostate within their own political
class. The useless battles serve as an effective mask for what Gamer
calls the "patron-client" networks that are responsible for the
continuity of colonial oppression. The squabbles among the oppressed, the
political campaigns between candidates who each are servants of colonial
power, Gamer writes, absolve the actual centers of power from addressing
the conditions that cause the frustrations of the people. Inequities,
political disenfranchisement and injustices are never seriously
addressed. "The government merely does the minimum necessary to prevent
those few who are prone toward political action from organizing into
politically effective groups," he writes.
Gamer and many others who study the nature of colonial rule offer the
best insights into the functioning of our corporate state. We have been,
like nations on the periphery of empire, colonized. We are controlled by
tiny corporate entities that have no loyalty to the nation and indeed in
the language of traditional patriotism are traitors. They strip us of our
resources, keep us politically passive and enrich themselves at our
expense. The mechanisms of control are familiar to those whom the
Martinique-born French psychiatrist and writer Frantz Fanon called "the
wretched of the earth," including African-Americans. The colonized are
denied job security. Incomes are reduced to subsistence level. The poor
are plunged into desperation. Mass movements, such as labor unions, are
dismantled. The school system is degraded so only the elites have access
to a superior education. Laws are written to legalize corporate plunder
and abuse, as well as criminalize dissent. And the ensuing fear and
instability—keenly felt this past weekend by the more than 200,000
Americans who lost their unemployment benefits—ensure political passivity
by diverting all personal energy toward survival. It is an old, old game.
A change of power does not require the election of a Mitt Romney or a
Barack Obama or a Democratic majority in Congress, or an attempt to
reform the system or electing progressive candidates, but rather a
destruction of corporate domination of the political process—Gamer's
"patron-client" networks. It requires the establishment of new mechanisms
of governance to distribute wealth and protect resources, to curtail
corporate power, to cope with the destruction of the ecosystem and to
foster the common good. But we must first recognize ourselves as colonial
subjects. We must accept that we have no effective voice in the way we
are governed. We must accept the hollowness of electoral politics, the
futility of our political theater, and we must destroy the corporate
structure itself.
The danger the corporate state faces does not come from the poor. The
poor, those Karl Marx dismissed as the Lumpenproletariat, do not mount
revolutions, although they join them and often become cannon fodder. The
real danger to the elite comes from déclassé intellectuals, those
educated middle-class men and women who are barred by a calcified system
from advancement. Artists without studios or theaters, teachers without
classrooms, lawyers without clients, doctors without patients and
journalists without newspapers descend economically. They become, as they
mingle with the underclass, a bridge between the worlds of the elite and
the oppressed. And they are the dynamite that triggers revolt.
This is why the Occupy movement frightens the corporate elite. What
fosters revolution is not misery, but the gap between what people expect
from their lives and what is offered. This is especially acute among the
educated and the talented. They feel, with much justification, that they
have been denied what they deserve. They set out to rectify this
injustice. And the longer the injustice festers, the more radical they
become.
The response of a dying regime—and our corporate regime is dying—is to
employ increasing levels of force, and to foolishly refuse to ameliorate
the chronic joblessness, foreclosures, mounting student debt, lack of
medical insurance and exclusion from the centers of power. Revolutions
are fueled by an inept and distant ruling class that perpetuates
political paralysis. This ensures its eventual death.
In every revolutionary movement I covered in Latin America, Africa and
the Middle East, the leadership emerged from déclassé intellectuals. The
leaders were usually young or middle-aged, educated and always unable to
meet their professional and personal aspirations. They were never part of
the power elite, although often their parents had been. They were
conversant in the language of power as well as the language of
oppression. It is the presence of large numbers of déclassé intellectuals
that makes the uprisings in Spain, Egypt, Greece and finally the United
States threatening to the overlords at Goldman Sachs, ExxonMobil and
JPMorgan Chase. They must face down opponents who understand, in a way
the uneducated often do not, the lies disseminated on behalf of
corporations by the public relations industry. These déclassé
intellectuals, because they are conversant in economics and political
theory, grasp that those who hold power, real power, are not the elected
mandarins in Washington but the criminal class on Wall Street.
This is what made Malcolm X so threatening to the white power structure.
He refused to countenance Martin Luther King's fiction that white power
and white liberals would ever lift black people out of economic squalor.
King belatedly came to share Malcolm's view. Malcolm X named the enemy.
He exposed the lies. And until we see the corporate state, and the games
it is playing with us, with the same kind of clarity, we will be nothing
more than useful idiots.
"This is an era of hypocrisy," Malcolm X said. "When white folks pretend
that they want Negroes to be free, and Negroes pretend to white folks
that they really believe that white folks want 'em to be free, it's an
era of hypocrisy, brother. You fool me and I fool you. You pretend that
you're my brother and I pretend that I really believe you believe you're
my brother."
Those within a demoralized ruling elite, like characters in a Chekhov
play, increasingly understand that the system that enriches and empowers
them is corrupt and decayed. They become cynical. They do not govern
effectively. They retreat into hedonism. They no longer believe their own
rhetoric. They devote their energies to stealing and exploiting as much,
as fast, as possible. They pillage their own institutions, as we have
seen with the newly disclosed loss of $2 billion within JPMorgan Chase,
the meltdown of Chesapeake Energy Corp. or the collapse of Enron and
Lehman Brothers. The elites become cannibals. They consume each other.
This is what happens in the latter stages of all dying regimes. Louis XIV
pillaged his own nobility by revoking patents of nobility and reselling
them. It is what most corporations do to their shareholders. A dying
ruling class, in short, no longer acts to preserve its own longevity. It
becomes fashionable, even in the rarefied circles of the elite, to
ridicule and laugh at the political puppets that are the public face of
the corporate state.
"Ideas that have outlived their day may hobble about the world for
years," Alexander Herzen wrote, "but it is hard for them ever to lead and
dominate life. Such ideas never gain complete possession of a man, or
they gain possession only of incomplete people."
This loss of faith means that when it comes time to use force, the elites
employ it haphazardly and inefficiently, in large part because they are
unsure of the loyalty of the foot soldiers on the streets charged with
carrying out repression.
Revolutions take time. The American Revolution began with protests
against the Stamp Act of 1765 but did not erupt until a decade later. The
1917 revolution in Russia started with a dress rehearsal in 1905. The
most effective revolutions, including the Russian Revolution, have been
largely nonviolent. There are always violent radicals who carry out
bombings and assassinations, but they hinder, especially in the early
stages, more than help revolutions. The anarchist Peter Kropotkin during
the Russian Revolution condemned the radical terrorists, asserting that
they only demoralized and frightened away the movement's followers and
discredited authentic anarchism.
Radical violent groups cling like parasites to popular protests. The
Black Panthers, the American Indian Movement, the Weather Underground,
the Red Brigades and the Symbionese Liberation Army arose in the ferment
of the 1960s. Violent radicals are used by the state to justify harsh
repression. They scare the mainstream from the movement. They thwart the
goal of all revolutions, which is to turn the majority against an
isolated and discredited ruling class. These violent fringe groups are
seductive to those who yearn for personal empowerment through hyper-
masculinity and violence, but they do little to advance the cause. The
primary role of radical extremists, such as Maximilien Robespierre and
Vladimir Lenin, is to hijack successful revolutions. They unleash a reign
of terror, primarily against fellow revolutionaries, which often outdoes
the repression of the old regime. They often do not play much of a role
in building a revolution.
The power of the Occupy movement is that it expresses the widespread
disgust with the elites, and the deep desire for justice and fairness
that is essential to all successful revolutionary movements. The Occupy
movement will change and mutate, but it will not go away. It may appear
to make little headway, but this is less because of the movement's
ineffectiveness and more because decayed systems of power have an amazing
ability to perpetuate themselves through habit, routine and inertia. The
press and organs of communication, along with the anointed experts and
academics, tied by money and ideology to the elites, are useless in
dissecting what is happening within these movements. They view reality
through the lens of their corporate sponsors. They have no idea what is
happening.
Dying regimes are chipped away slowly and imperceptibly. The assumptions
and daily formalities of the old system are difficult for citizens to
abandon, even when the old system is increasingly hostile to their
dignity, well-being and survival. Supplanting an old faith with a new one
is the silent, unseen battle of all revolutionary movements. And during
the slow transition it is almost impossible to measure progress.
"Sometimes people hold a core belief that is very strong," Fanon wrote in
"Black Skin, White Masks." "When they are presented with evidence that
works against that belief, the new evidence cannot be accepted. It would
create a feeling that is extremely uncomfortable, called cognitive
dissonance. And because it is so important to protect the core belief,
they will rationalize, ignore and even deny anything that doesn't fit in
with the core belief."
The end of these regimes comes when old beliefs die and the organs of
security, especially the police and military, abandon the elites and join
the revolutionaries. This is true in every successful revolution. It does
not matter how sophisticated the repressive apparatus. Once those who
handle the tools of repression become demoralized, the security and
surveillance state is impotent. Regimes, when they die, are like a great
ocean liner sinking in minutes on the horizon. And no one, including the
purported leaders of the opposition, can predict the moment of death.
Revolutions have an innate, mysterious life force that defies
comprehension. They are living entities.
The defection of the security apparatus is often done with little or no
violence, as I witnessed in Eastern Europe in 1989 and as was also true
in 1979 in Iran and in 1917 in Russia. At other times, when it has enough
residual force to fight back, the dying regime triggers a violent clash
as it did in the American Revolution when soldiers and officers in the
British army, including George Washington, rebelled to raise the
Continental Army. Violence also characterized the 1949 Chinese revolution
led by Mao Zedong. But even revolutions that turn violent succeed, as Mao
conceded, because they enjoy popular support and can mount widespread
protests, strikes, agitation, revolutionary propaganda and acts of civil
disobedience. The object is to try to get there without violence. Armed
revolutions, despite what the history books often tell us, are tragic,
ugly, frightening and sordid affairs. Those who storm Bastilles, as the
Polish dissident Adam Michnik wrote, "unwittingly build new ones." And
once revolutions turn violent it becomes hard to speak of victors and
losers.
A revolution has been unleashed across the globe. This revolution, a
popular repudiation of the old order, is where we should direct all our
energy and commitment. If we do not topple the corporate elites the
ecosystem will be destroyed and massive numbers of human beings along
with it. The struggle will be long. There will be times when it will seem
we are going nowhere. Victory is not inevitable. But this is our best and
only hope. The response of the corporate state will ultimately determine
the parameters and composition of rebellion. I pray we replicate the 1989
nonviolent revolutions that overthrew the communist regimes in Eastern
Europe. But this is not in my hands or yours. Go ahead and vote this
November. But don't waste any more time or energy on the presidential
election than it takes to get to your polling station and pull a lever
for a third-party candidate—just enough to register your obstruction and
defiance—and then get back out onto the street. That is where the
question of real power is being decided.
--
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Not dead, in jail or a slave? Thank a liberal!
the-corporate-elite
Why the Occupy Movement Frightens the Corporate Elite
Monday, 14 May 2012 10:17 By Chris Hedges, Truthdig | Op-Ed
In Robert E. Gamer's book "The Developing Nations" is a chapter called
"Why Men Do Not Revolt." In it Gamer notes that although the oppressed
often do revolt, the object of their hostility is misplaced. They vent
their fury on a political puppet, someone who masks colonial power, a
despised racial or ethnic group or an apostate within their own political
class. The useless battles serve as an effective mask for what Gamer
calls the "patron-client" networks that are responsible for the
continuity of colonial oppression. The squabbles among the oppressed, the
political campaigns between candidates who each are servants of colonial
power, Gamer writes, absolve the actual centers of power from addressing
the conditions that cause the frustrations of the people. Inequities,
political disenfranchisement and injustices are never seriously
addressed. "The government merely does the minimum necessary to prevent
those few who are prone toward political action from organizing into
politically effective groups," he writes.
Gamer and many others who study the nature of colonial rule offer the
best insights into the functioning of our corporate state. We have been,
like nations on the periphery of empire, colonized. We are controlled by
tiny corporate entities that have no loyalty to the nation and indeed in
the language of traditional patriotism are traitors. They strip us of our
resources, keep us politically passive and enrich themselves at our
expense. The mechanisms of control are familiar to those whom the
Martinique-born French psychiatrist and writer Frantz Fanon called "the
wretched of the earth," including African-Americans. The colonized are
denied job security. Incomes are reduced to subsistence level. The poor
are plunged into desperation. Mass movements, such as labor unions, are
dismantled. The school system is degraded so only the elites have access
to a superior education. Laws are written to legalize corporate plunder
and abuse, as well as criminalize dissent. And the ensuing fear and
instability—keenly felt this past weekend by the more than 200,000
Americans who lost their unemployment benefits—ensure political passivity
by diverting all personal energy toward survival. It is an old, old game.
A change of power does not require the election of a Mitt Romney or a
Barack Obama or a Democratic majority in Congress, or an attempt to
reform the system or electing progressive candidates, but rather a
destruction of corporate domination of the political process—Gamer's
"patron-client" networks. It requires the establishment of new mechanisms
of governance to distribute wealth and protect resources, to curtail
corporate power, to cope with the destruction of the ecosystem and to
foster the common good. But we must first recognize ourselves as colonial
subjects. We must accept that we have no effective voice in the way we
are governed. We must accept the hollowness of electoral politics, the
futility of our political theater, and we must destroy the corporate
structure itself.
The danger the corporate state faces does not come from the poor. The
poor, those Karl Marx dismissed as the Lumpenproletariat, do not mount
revolutions, although they join them and often become cannon fodder. The
real danger to the elite comes from déclassé intellectuals, those
educated middle-class men and women who are barred by a calcified system
from advancement. Artists without studios or theaters, teachers without
classrooms, lawyers without clients, doctors without patients and
journalists without newspapers descend economically. They become, as they
mingle with the underclass, a bridge between the worlds of the elite and
the oppressed. And they are the dynamite that triggers revolt.
This is why the Occupy movement frightens the corporate elite. What
fosters revolution is not misery, but the gap between what people expect
from their lives and what is offered. This is especially acute among the
educated and the talented. They feel, with much justification, that they
have been denied what they deserve. They set out to rectify this
injustice. And the longer the injustice festers, the more radical they
become.
The response of a dying regime—and our corporate regime is dying—is to
employ increasing levels of force, and to foolishly refuse to ameliorate
the chronic joblessness, foreclosures, mounting student debt, lack of
medical insurance and exclusion from the centers of power. Revolutions
are fueled by an inept and distant ruling class that perpetuates
political paralysis. This ensures its eventual death.
In every revolutionary movement I covered in Latin America, Africa and
the Middle East, the leadership emerged from déclassé intellectuals. The
leaders were usually young or middle-aged, educated and always unable to
meet their professional and personal aspirations. They were never part of
the power elite, although often their parents had been. They were
conversant in the language of power as well as the language of
oppression. It is the presence of large numbers of déclassé intellectuals
that makes the uprisings in Spain, Egypt, Greece and finally the United
States threatening to the overlords at Goldman Sachs, ExxonMobil and
JPMorgan Chase. They must face down opponents who understand, in a way
the uneducated often do not, the lies disseminated on behalf of
corporations by the public relations industry. These déclassé
intellectuals, because they are conversant in economics and political
theory, grasp that those who hold power, real power, are not the elected
mandarins in Washington but the criminal class on Wall Street.
This is what made Malcolm X so threatening to the white power structure.
He refused to countenance Martin Luther King's fiction that white power
and white liberals would ever lift black people out of economic squalor.
King belatedly came to share Malcolm's view. Malcolm X named the enemy.
He exposed the lies. And until we see the corporate state, and the games
it is playing with us, with the same kind of clarity, we will be nothing
more than useful idiots.
"This is an era of hypocrisy," Malcolm X said. "When white folks pretend
that they want Negroes to be free, and Negroes pretend to white folks
that they really believe that white folks want 'em to be free, it's an
era of hypocrisy, brother. You fool me and I fool you. You pretend that
you're my brother and I pretend that I really believe you believe you're
my brother."
Those within a demoralized ruling elite, like characters in a Chekhov
play, increasingly understand that the system that enriches and empowers
them is corrupt and decayed. They become cynical. They do not govern
effectively. They retreat into hedonism. They no longer believe their own
rhetoric. They devote their energies to stealing and exploiting as much,
as fast, as possible. They pillage their own institutions, as we have
seen with the newly disclosed loss of $2 billion within JPMorgan Chase,
the meltdown of Chesapeake Energy Corp. or the collapse of Enron and
Lehman Brothers. The elites become cannibals. They consume each other.
This is what happens in the latter stages of all dying regimes. Louis XIV
pillaged his own nobility by revoking patents of nobility and reselling
them. It is what most corporations do to their shareholders. A dying
ruling class, in short, no longer acts to preserve its own longevity. It
becomes fashionable, even in the rarefied circles of the elite, to
ridicule and laugh at the political puppets that are the public face of
the corporate state.
"Ideas that have outlived their day may hobble about the world for
years," Alexander Herzen wrote, "but it is hard for them ever to lead and
dominate life. Such ideas never gain complete possession of a man, or
they gain possession only of incomplete people."
This loss of faith means that when it comes time to use force, the elites
employ it haphazardly and inefficiently, in large part because they are
unsure of the loyalty of the foot soldiers on the streets charged with
carrying out repression.
Revolutions take time. The American Revolution began with protests
against the Stamp Act of 1765 but did not erupt until a decade later. The
1917 revolution in Russia started with a dress rehearsal in 1905. The
most effective revolutions, including the Russian Revolution, have been
largely nonviolent. There are always violent radicals who carry out
bombings and assassinations, but they hinder, especially in the early
stages, more than help revolutions. The anarchist Peter Kropotkin during
the Russian Revolution condemned the radical terrorists, asserting that
they only demoralized and frightened away the movement's followers and
discredited authentic anarchism.
Radical violent groups cling like parasites to popular protests. The
Black Panthers, the American Indian Movement, the Weather Underground,
the Red Brigades and the Symbionese Liberation Army arose in the ferment
of the 1960s. Violent radicals are used by the state to justify harsh
repression. They scare the mainstream from the movement. They thwart the
goal of all revolutions, which is to turn the majority against an
isolated and discredited ruling class. These violent fringe groups are
seductive to those who yearn for personal empowerment through hyper-
masculinity and violence, but they do little to advance the cause. The
primary role of radical extremists, such as Maximilien Robespierre and
Vladimir Lenin, is to hijack successful revolutions. They unleash a reign
of terror, primarily against fellow revolutionaries, which often outdoes
the repression of the old regime. They often do not play much of a role
in building a revolution.
The power of the Occupy movement is that it expresses the widespread
disgust with the elites, and the deep desire for justice and fairness
that is essential to all successful revolutionary movements. The Occupy
movement will change and mutate, but it will not go away. It may appear
to make little headway, but this is less because of the movement's
ineffectiveness and more because decayed systems of power have an amazing
ability to perpetuate themselves through habit, routine and inertia. The
press and organs of communication, along with the anointed experts and
academics, tied by money and ideology to the elites, are useless in
dissecting what is happening within these movements. They view reality
through the lens of their corporate sponsors. They have no idea what is
happening.
Dying regimes are chipped away slowly and imperceptibly. The assumptions
and daily formalities of the old system are difficult for citizens to
abandon, even when the old system is increasingly hostile to their
dignity, well-being and survival. Supplanting an old faith with a new one
is the silent, unseen battle of all revolutionary movements. And during
the slow transition it is almost impossible to measure progress.
"Sometimes people hold a core belief that is very strong," Fanon wrote in
"Black Skin, White Masks." "When they are presented with evidence that
works against that belief, the new evidence cannot be accepted. It would
create a feeling that is extremely uncomfortable, called cognitive
dissonance. And because it is so important to protect the core belief,
they will rationalize, ignore and even deny anything that doesn't fit in
with the core belief."
The end of these regimes comes when old beliefs die and the organs of
security, especially the police and military, abandon the elites and join
the revolutionaries. This is true in every successful revolution. It does
not matter how sophisticated the repressive apparatus. Once those who
handle the tools of repression become demoralized, the security and
surveillance state is impotent. Regimes, when they die, are like a great
ocean liner sinking in minutes on the horizon. And no one, including the
purported leaders of the opposition, can predict the moment of death.
Revolutions have an innate, mysterious life force that defies
comprehension. They are living entities.
The defection of the security apparatus is often done with little or no
violence, as I witnessed in Eastern Europe in 1989 and as was also true
in 1979 in Iran and in 1917 in Russia. At other times, when it has enough
residual force to fight back, the dying regime triggers a violent clash
as it did in the American Revolution when soldiers and officers in the
British army, including George Washington, rebelled to raise the
Continental Army. Violence also characterized the 1949 Chinese revolution
led by Mao Zedong. But even revolutions that turn violent succeed, as Mao
conceded, because they enjoy popular support and can mount widespread
protests, strikes, agitation, revolutionary propaganda and acts of civil
disobedience. The object is to try to get there without violence. Armed
revolutions, despite what the history books often tell us, are tragic,
ugly, frightening and sordid affairs. Those who storm Bastilles, as the
Polish dissident Adam Michnik wrote, "unwittingly build new ones." And
once revolutions turn violent it becomes hard to speak of victors and
losers.
A revolution has been unleashed across the globe. This revolution, a
popular repudiation of the old order, is where we should direct all our
energy and commitment. If we do not topple the corporate elites the
ecosystem will be destroyed and massive numbers of human beings along
with it. The struggle will be long. There will be times when it will seem
we are going nowhere. Victory is not inevitable. But this is our best and
only hope. The response of the corporate state will ultimately determine
the parameters and composition of rebellion. I pray we replicate the 1989
nonviolent revolutions that overthrew the communist regimes in Eastern
Europe. But this is not in my hands or yours. Go ahead and vote this
November. But don't waste any more time or energy on the presidential
election than it takes to get to your polling station and pull a lever
for a third-party candidate—just enough to register your obstruction and
defiance—and then get back out onto the street. That is where the
question of real power is being decided.
--
Subscribe:
zepps_essay...@yahoogroups.com
zepps_news...@yahoogroups.com
Unsubscribe:
zepps_essays...@yahoogroups.com
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Not dead, in jail or a slave? Thank a liberal!
C...@prayforme.com
May 14, 2012, 1:59:43 PM5/14/12
to
On Mon, 14 May 2012 16:53:06 +0000 (UTC), 2966 Dead <de...@gone.com>
wrote:
>http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/9112-why-the-occupy-movement-frightens-
>the-corporate-elite
>
>Why the Occupy Movement Frightens the Corporate Elite
Because OWS has a proven violent record of rioting. A carry over to
when mommy denied them a toy at duh stoe.
Nancy Pelosi: ‘God bless’ Wall Street protesters
Whose god? Not the Father of creation and of His Son, Jesus
CB
By their fruits you shall know them--The White House and Christ
Tuesday, April 26, 2011
In Matthew 7:15-16, Jesus warns, "Beware of false prophets, which come
to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye
shall know them by their fruits."
http://prophecyfrombillwilsontoday.blogspot.com/2011/04/by-their-fruits-you-shall-know-them.html
Compare the above with...
Keynesian economics 'is' at work by Obama the Marxist in sheep's
clothing.
Fabian/Keynesian coat of arms, a wolf in sheeps clothing
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4091/5061156284_476ecafd07_m.jpg
The whole Fabian stain window
http://www.canadafreepress.com/images/uploads/FabianWindow-1.jpg
"Obama didn’t just have a team of Keynesians. He had the Keynesian
all-star team"
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=We+Are+All+Keynesians+Now&view=detail&id=F42464A667E9DE1A569CAB0C1356878EBA5D420F&first=30&FORM=IDFRIR
wrote:
>http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/9112-why-the-occupy-movement-frightens-
>the-corporate-elite
>
>Why the Occupy Movement Frightens the Corporate Elite
when mommy denied them a toy at duh stoe.
Nancy Pelosi: ‘God bless’ Wall Street protesters
Whose god? Not the Father of creation and of His Son, Jesus
CB
By their fruits you shall know them--The White House and Christ
Tuesday, April 26, 2011
In Matthew 7:15-16, Jesus warns, "Beware of false prophets, which come
to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye
shall know them by their fruits."
http://prophecyfrombillwilsontoday.blogspot.com/2011/04/by-their-fruits-you-shall-know-them.html
Compare the above with...
Keynesian economics 'is' at work by Obama the Marxist in sheep's
clothing.
Fabian/Keynesian coat of arms, a wolf in sheeps clothing
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4091/5061156284_476ecafd07_m.jpg
The whole Fabian stain window
http://www.canadafreepress.com/images/uploads/FabianWindow-1.jpg
"Obama didn’t just have a team of Keynesians. He had the Keynesian
all-star team"
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=We+Are+All+Keynesians+Now&view=detail&id=F42464A667E9DE1A569CAB0C1356878EBA5D420F&first=30&FORM=IDFRIR
MattB
May 14, 2012, 2:15:16 PM5/14/12
to
crazy. You do need to be careful. The people you need to pay for
all this are leaving the US. Over 1000 this year. You need to keep
the tax base.
I do agree we need to raise taxes and cut spending. We just don't
want to end up like Greece.
Personally I consider both the Tea Party and the Liberal Progressives
to be wrong. We need a middle ground.
C...@prayforme.com
May 14, 2012, 2:45:04 PM5/14/12
to
On Mon, 14 May 2012 11:15:16 -0700, MattB
<trdel...@Nomorespamgmail.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 14 May 2012 16:53:06 +0000 (UTC), 2966 Dead <de...@gone.com>
>wrote:
>
>>http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/9112-why-the-occupy-movement-frightens-
>>the-corporate-elite
>>
>>Why the Occupy Movement Frightens the Corporate Elite
>>Monday, 14 May 2012 10:17 By Chris Hedges, Truthdig | Op-Ed
>>
>
>
<trdel...@Nomorespamgmail.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 14 May 2012 16:53:06 +0000 (UTC), 2966 Dead <de...@gone.com>
>wrote:
>
>>http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/9112-why-the-occupy-movement-frightens-
>>the-corporate-elite
>>
>>Why the Occupy Movement Frightens the Corporate Elite
>>Monday, 14 May 2012 10:17 By Chris Hedges, Truthdig | Op-Ed
>>
>
>
> I have seen a few OWS demands that are fair and some that are
>crazy. You do need to be careful. The people you need to pay for
>all this are leaving the US. Over 1000 this year. You need to keep
>the tax base.
>
> I do agree we need to raise taxes and cut spending. We just don't
>want to end up like Greece.
>
> Personally I consider both the Tea Party and the Liberal Progressives
>to be wrong. We need a middle ground.
It'll never happen until we elect strict constructionists, people who
>crazy. You do need to be careful. The people you need to pay for
>all this are leaving the US. Over 1000 this year. You need to keep
>the tax base.
>
> I do agree we need to raise taxes and cut spending. We just don't
>want to end up like Greece.
>
> Personally I consider both the Tea Party and the Liberal Progressives
>to be wrong. We need a middle ground.
know how to cut fat and waste. Romney needs a super majority of Tea
Party Conservatives (not necessarily Republican) in both houses.
Without painful austerity and a projected message of fiscal
responsibility, capital will continue to leave America just as the
rich are leaving California and NY.
We are becoming Greece and now France because politicians care more
for their positions than the countries true welfare.
Like Magnus said, "The problem isn't that government hasn't enough
money, it's that government spends to much"
MattB
May 14, 2012, 2:54:59 PM5/14/12
to
On Mon, 14 May 2012 14:45:04 -0400, "C...@PrayForMe.com"
<C...@PrayForMe.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 14 May 2012 11:15:16 -0700, MattB
><trdel...@Nomorespamgmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 14 May 2012 16:53:06 +0000 (UTC), 2966 Dead <de...@gone.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/9112-why-the-occupy-movement-frightens-
>>>the-corporate-elite
>>>
>>>Why the Occupy Movement Frightens the Corporate Elite
>>>Monday, 14 May 2012 10:17 By Chris Hedges, Truthdig | Op-Ed
>>>
>
>>
>>
>> I have seen a few OWS demands that are fair and some that are
>>crazy. You do need to be careful. The people you need to pay for
>>all this are leaving the US. Over 1000 this year. You need to keep
>>the tax base.
>>
>> I do agree we need to raise taxes and cut spending. We just don't
>>want to end up like Greece.
>>
>> Personally I consider both the Tea Party and the Liberal Progressives
>>to be wrong. We need a middle ground.
>
>It'll never happen until we elect strict constructionists, people who
>know how to cut fat and waste. Romney needs a super majority of Tea
>Party Conservatives (not necessarily Republican) in both houses.
So your saying we need a super majority of Eddies and Richards.
<C...@PrayForMe.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 14 May 2012 11:15:16 -0700, MattB
><trdel...@Nomorespamgmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 14 May 2012 16:53:06 +0000 (UTC), 2966 Dead <de...@gone.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/9112-why-the-occupy-movement-frightens-
>>>the-corporate-elite
>>>
>>>Why the Occupy Movement Frightens the Corporate Elite
>>>Monday, 14 May 2012 10:17 By Chris Hedges, Truthdig | Op-Ed
>>>
>
>>
>>
>> I have seen a few OWS demands that are fair and some that are
>>crazy. You do need to be careful. The people you need to pay for
>>all this are leaving the US. Over 1000 this year. You need to keep
>>the tax base.
>>
>> I do agree we need to raise taxes and cut spending. We just don't
>>want to end up like Greece.
>>
>> Personally I consider both the Tea Party and the Liberal Progressives
>>to be wrong. We need a middle ground.
>
>It'll never happen until we elect strict constructionists, people who
>know how to cut fat and waste. Romney needs a super majority of Tea
>Party Conservatives (not necessarily Republican) in both houses.
No thanks the Koch can kiss my ass.
>
>Without painful austerity and a projected message of fiscal
>responsibility, capital will continue to leave America just as the
>rich are leaving California and NY.
That is happening now.
>Without painful austerity and a projected message of fiscal
>responsibility, capital will continue to leave America just as the
>rich are leaving California and NY.
>
>We are becoming Greece and now France because politicians care more
>for their positions than the countries true welfare.
>
>Like Magnus said, "The problem isn't that government hasn't enough
>money, it's that government spends to much"
Well in this you are half right IMO. The Bush Tax cuts were a
>We are becoming Greece and now France because politicians care more
>for their positions than the countries true welfare.
>
>Like Magnus said, "The problem isn't that government hasn't enough
>money, it's that government spends to much"
mistake. Deregulating the financial markets was a mistake.
The Tea Party wants a corporate State and a aristocracy. The Liberal
Progressives want a socialist government. I can support neither.
Guess I better start packing my bags. ;-))
C...@prayforme.com
May 14, 2012, 3:14:43 PM5/14/12
to
On Mon, 14 May 2012 11:54:59 -0700, MattB
The trains still run on time, the video stores still rent The Scent of
a Woman and Croggers still sells bread for less than a days wages.
>>
>>We are becoming Greece and now France because politicians care more
>>for their positions than the countries true welfare.
>>
>>Like Magnus said, "The problem isn't that government hasn't enough
>>money, it's that government spends to much"
>
> Well in this you are half right IMO. The Bush Tax cuts were a
>mistake. Deregulating the financial markets was a mistake.
The Bush tax breaks post 9/11 rocked the frigging world!
The greatest expansion in American history took place after 9/11
because of tax cuts!
It's only when Dims took both House and Senate did we start declining.
Never forget that! Then When AlGore tried to steal the election the
markets saw it as an attempt at coup d'état. Richard Daley went to
Miami/Dade and planted the idea that votes weren't counted. The
ignorant (Obama's civilian army) community organized under Van
Jones/ACORN resulting in unrest.
You may have a short memory but I don't. The Bush tax cuts resulted in
the greatest economic expansion in world history!
>
> The Tea Party wants a corporate State and a aristocracy.
No we don't! We want the market to decide it's own future. Companies
get big because over regulation prevents the little guy from
competing.
It costs a lot of money to get set up in business so overhead must be
covered. Tack on permits, impact studies, Certificate of Occupancy ,
EPA regulations governing cleaning chemicals and child labor, HTF and
any small business compete with the mean rich chains who serve
Monsanto crap?
The Liberal
>Progressives want a socialist government. I can support neither.
>Guess I better start packing my bags. ;-))
Reduce the Marxist grip on once free spirit, vote Tea Party
a Woman and Croggers still sells bread for less than a days wages.
>>
>>We are becoming Greece and now France because politicians care more
>>for their positions than the countries true welfare.
>>
>>Like Magnus said, "The problem isn't that government hasn't enough
>>money, it's that government spends to much"
>
> Well in this you are half right IMO. The Bush Tax cuts were a
>mistake. Deregulating the financial markets was a mistake.
The greatest expansion in American history took place after 9/11
because of tax cuts!
It's only when Dims took both House and Senate did we start declining.
Never forget that! Then When AlGore tried to steal the election the
markets saw it as an attempt at coup d'état. Richard Daley went to
Miami/Dade and planted the idea that votes weren't counted. The
ignorant (Obama's civilian army) community organized under Van
Jones/ACORN resulting in unrest.
You may have a short memory but I don't. The Bush tax cuts resulted in
the greatest economic expansion in world history!
>
> The Tea Party wants a corporate State and a aristocracy.
get big because over regulation prevents the little guy from
competing.
It costs a lot of money to get set up in business so overhead must be
covered. Tack on permits, impact studies, Certificate of Occupancy ,
EPA regulations governing cleaning chemicals and child labor, HTF and
any small business compete with the mean rich chains who serve
Monsanto crap?
The Liberal
>Progressives want a socialist government. I can support neither.
>Guess I better start packing my bags. ;-))
Message has been deleted
MattB
May 14, 2012, 7:41:07 PM5/14/12
to
On Mon, 14 May 2012 16:21:33 -0600, Yoor...@Jurgis.net wrote:
>On Mon, 14 May 2012 11:54:59 -0700, MattB
><trdel...@Nomorespamgmail.com> wrote:
>
>On Mon, 14 May 2012 11:54:59 -0700, MattB
><trdel...@Nomorespamgmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The Tea Party wants a corporate State and a aristocracy. The Liberal
>>Progressives want a socialist government. I can support neither.
>>Guess I better start packing my bags. ;-))
>
>You get more stupid each day, Mattloon
>>Progressives want a socialist government. I can support neither.
>>Guess I better start packing my bags. ;-))
>
>
>Name a fucking industry, business, law, policy, program that ANY
>government under Carter, Clinton or Obama has taken over and then
>allowed it to be run by fiat from the public, or by government with an
>goal of control of means of production and distribution
>
>You keep the cheap use of words flowing as if they had any meaning.
>
>THere is no "Socialism"
Then I owe you nothing. Good my property is safe. Again good.
>
>There is SOCIAL POLICY that government is required (by the people) to
>address in lieu of private accomodation. (health, infrastructure,
>clean water, etc)
How will you pay for it?
Message has been deleted
MattB
May 15, 2012, 12:16:11 AM5/15/12
to
On Mon, 14 May 2012 21:49:53 -0600, Yoor...@Jurgis.net wrote:
>On Mon, 14 May 2012 16:41:07 -0700, MattB
><trdel...@Nomorespamgmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>THere is no "Socialism"
>>
>> Then I owe you nothing. Good my property is safe. Again good.
>
>Wouldn't want anything of yours
>
>What "we" want is for you to pay yer taxes like a good American and
>stop bitching about it when you have to pay more than your share
>because of the political ideology you support.
See again you make things up. I have said I am willing for the Bush
Tax cuts to be allowed to expire. Let the tax rate go back to what
they were in the Clinton years. No Problem. Then again I think
people in Sec 8 should clean the area also. Welfare people should
help out by cleaning roads. They should be given the chance to take 1
area of study in a field to find work.
I have said this over and over. Had some heated discussions with
Eddie and Richard about it.
All Conservatives aren't the same.
>On Mon, 14 May 2012 16:41:07 -0700, MattB
><trdel...@Nomorespamgmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>THere is no "Socialism"
>>
>> Then I owe you nothing. Good my property is safe. Again good.
>
>
>What "we" want is for you to pay yer taxes like a good American and
>stop bitching about it when you have to pay more than your share
>because of the political ideology you support.
See again you make things up. I have said I am willing for the Bush
Tax cuts to be allowed to expire. Let the tax rate go back to what
they were in the Clinton years. No Problem. Then again I think
people in Sec 8 should clean the area also. Welfare people should
help out by cleaning roads. They should be given the chance to take 1
area of study in a field to find work.
I have said this over and over. Had some heated discussions with
Eddie and Richard about it.
All Conservatives aren't the same.
Winston Smith, American Patriot
May 15, 2012, 12:40:57 AM5/15/12
to
"C...@PrayForMe.com" <C...@PrayForMe.com> wrote on Mon 14 May 2012 09:45:04p
> On Mon, 14 May 2012 11:15:16 -0700, MattB
> <trdel...@Nomorespamgmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 14 May 2012 16:53:06 +0000 (UTC), 2966 Dead <de...@gone.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/9112-why-the-occupy-movement-frightens-
>>>the-corporate-elite
>>>
>>>Why the Occupy Movement Frightens the Corporate Elite
>>>Monday, 14 May 2012 10:17 By Chris Hedges, Truthdig | Op-Ed
>>>
>
>>
>>
>> I have seen a few OWS demands that are fair and some that are
>>crazy. You do need to be careful. The people you need to pay for
>>all this are leaving the US. Over 1000 this year. You need to keep
>>the tax base.
>>
>> I do agree we need to raise taxes and cut spending. We just don't
>>want to end up like Greece.
>>
>> Personally I consider both the Tea Party and the Liberal Progressives
>>to be wrong. We need a middle ground.
>
> It'll never happen until we elect strict constructionists, people who
> know how to cut fat and waste. Romney needs a super majority of Tea
> Party Conservatives (not necessarily Republican) in both houses.
Well, so much for poster "MattB"'s call for compromise. The right-wing
scumbag side has spoken.
> Without painful austerity and a projected message of fiscal
> responsibility, capital will continue to leave America just as the
> rich are leaving California and NY.
The first order of business of the next federal government will be to revoke
all visas of the rich who are renouncing their U.S. citizenship. The
corporations will no longer get government contracts, since those are easily
conditioned on U.S. citizenship.
Wanna make China and India rich? Don't let the door hit your ass on the way
out. Hope your home in Shanghai or Mumbai is able to insulate itself from
the filthy infrastructure the 99% of those countries live in. Oh, we hope
that you are not one of the aristocrats that are caught in their villas when
the popular peoples' revolutions take over.
> We are becoming Greece and now France because politicians care more
> for their positions than the countries true welfare.
Greece's problem is different from that of France, you idiot.
France sees the UK under its right wing and its return to a recession under
the Tories and say, "it's time for GROWTH, not AUSTERITY."
If the American voter is smart, it will put out of office all those crepe
hangers and those who treasonously put party over nation and in the process
try to hurt the nation. Time to put the Democrats back in charge so that
they can let Obama implement his program fully, and not halfway.
> Like Magnus said, "The problem isn't that government hasn't enough
> money, it's that government spends to much"
I hope Magnus knew how to spell English better.
Obama has offered the TRULY BALANCED approach: entitlement cuts and
adjustments as well as tax increases on the criminally wealthy. Even when
the Bush Tax Cuts for the 1% expire, it won't be enough. The days of the
fabulously wealthy living it up are over, but only if America cleans out the
right wing scum causing gridlock in the Congress.
Obama has stopped one of Bush's criminal and expensive wars, and will attempt
to cut down to 10% of what is being spent in Afghanistan.
Obama has made Bush and Cheney look like amateurs in the national security
area. No one----especially the Vietnam draft dodger Willard---has the nerve
to carry Obama's shoes on this subject.
--
America's fascists, who are recognized by the name
"Republican" and "Teabagger," are the evil that festers
when good, decent people look on in apathy, doing nothing.
> On Mon, 14 May 2012 11:15:16 -0700, MattB
> <trdel...@Nomorespamgmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 14 May 2012 16:53:06 +0000 (UTC), 2966 Dead <de...@gone.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/9112-why-the-occupy-movement-frightens-
>>>the-corporate-elite
>>>
>>>Why the Occupy Movement Frightens the Corporate Elite
>>>Monday, 14 May 2012 10:17 By Chris Hedges, Truthdig | Op-Ed
>>>
>
>>
>>
>> I have seen a few OWS demands that are fair and some that are
>>crazy. You do need to be careful. The people you need to pay for
>>all this are leaving the US. Over 1000 this year. You need to keep
>>the tax base.
>>
>> I do agree we need to raise taxes and cut spending. We just don't
>>want to end up like Greece.
>>
>> Personally I consider both the Tea Party and the Liberal Progressives
>>to be wrong. We need a middle ground.
>
> It'll never happen until we elect strict constructionists, people who
> know how to cut fat and waste. Romney needs a super majority of Tea
> Party Conservatives (not necessarily Republican) in both houses.
scumbag side has spoken.
> Without painful austerity and a projected message of fiscal
> responsibility, capital will continue to leave America just as the
> rich are leaving California and NY.
all visas of the rich who are renouncing their U.S. citizenship. The
corporations will no longer get government contracts, since those are easily
conditioned on U.S. citizenship.
Wanna make China and India rich? Don't let the door hit your ass on the way
out. Hope your home in Shanghai or Mumbai is able to insulate itself from
the filthy infrastructure the 99% of those countries live in. Oh, we hope
that you are not one of the aristocrats that are caught in their villas when
the popular peoples' revolutions take over.
> We are becoming Greece and now France because politicians care more
> for their positions than the countries true welfare.
France sees the UK under its right wing and its return to a recession under
the Tories and say, "it's time for GROWTH, not AUSTERITY."
If the American voter is smart, it will put out of office all those crepe
hangers and those who treasonously put party over nation and in the process
try to hurt the nation. Time to put the Democrats back in charge so that
they can let Obama implement his program fully, and not halfway.
> Like Magnus said, "The problem isn't that government hasn't enough
> money, it's that government spends to much"
Obama has offered the TRULY BALANCED approach: entitlement cuts and
adjustments as well as tax increases on the criminally wealthy. Even when
the Bush Tax Cuts for the 1% expire, it won't be enough. The days of the
fabulously wealthy living it up are over, but only if America cleans out the
right wing scum causing gridlock in the Congress.
Obama has stopped one of Bush's criminal and expensive wars, and will attempt
to cut down to 10% of what is being spent in Afghanistan.
Obama has made Bush and Cheney look like amateurs in the national security
area. No one----especially the Vietnam draft dodger Willard---has the nerve
to carry Obama's shoes on this subject.
--
America's fascists, who are recognized by the name
"Republican" and "Teabagger," are the evil that festers
when good, decent people look on in apathy, doing nothing.
Message has been deleted
Slackfest
May 15, 2012, 9:54:29 AM5/15/12
to
On 5/15/2012 8:24 AM, Yoor...@Jurgis.net wrote:
You don't seem surprised by that, and of course private
prisons are already skirting labor laws in a similar manner..
> CLeaning roads is a government function.
And sometimes community-oriented groups..
>> All Conservatives aren't the same.
>
> All conservatives who embrace the Republican (because they represent
> conservatives) are the same.
I'd sooner 'embrace' a cactus..
--Less pricks there..
>
> On Mon, 14 May 2012 21:16:11 -0700, MattB
> <trdel...@Nomorespamgmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 14 May 2012 21:49:53 -0600, Yoor...@Jurgis.net wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 14 May 2012 16:41:07 -0700, MattB
>>> <trdel...@Nomorespamgmail.com> wrote:
--->
> On Mon, 14 May 2012 21:16:11 -0700, MattB
> <trdel...@Nomorespamgmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 14 May 2012 21:49:53 -0600, Yoor...@Jurgis.net wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 14 May 2012 16:41:07 -0700, MattB
>>> <trdel...@Nomorespamgmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Then I owe you nothing. Good my property is safe. Again good.
>>>
>>> Wouldn't want anything of yours
>>>
>>> What "we" want is for you to pay yer taxes like a good American and
>>> stop bitching about it when you have to pay more than your share
>>> because of the political ideology you support.
>>
>> See again you make things up. I have said I am willing for the Bush
>> Tax cuts to be allowed to expire. Let the tax rate go back to what
>> they were in the Clinton years. No Problem. Then again I think
>> people in Sec 8 should clean the area also. Welfare people should
>> help out by cleaning roads. They should be given the chance to take 1
>> area of study in a field to find work.
>
> Ah--so involuntary servitude is on your plate?
>>>
>>> Wouldn't want anything of yours
>>>
>>> What "we" want is for you to pay yer taxes like a good American and
>>> stop bitching about it when you have to pay more than your share
>>> because of the political ideology you support.
>>
>> See again you make things up. I have said I am willing for the Bush
>> Tax cuts to be allowed to expire. Let the tax rate go back to what
>> they were in the Clinton years. No Problem. Then again I think
>> people in Sec 8 should clean the area also. Welfare people should
>> help out by cleaning roads. They should be given the chance to take 1
>> area of study in a field to find work.
>
You don't seem surprised by that, and of course private
prisons are already skirting labor laws in a similar manner..
> CLeaning roads is a government function.
And sometimes community-oriented groups..
>> All Conservatives aren't the same.
>
> conservatives) are the same.
I'd sooner 'embrace' a cactus..
--Less pricks there..
MattB
May 15, 2012, 3:17:19 PM5/15/12
to
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On Tue, 15 May 2012 07:24:43 -0600, Yoor...@Jurgis.net wrote:
>On Mon, 14 May 2012 21:16:11 -0700, MattB
Like I thought you just want free handouts.
>
>CLeaning roads is a government function.
Yes I see why some areas are always trashy walk through Detroit or
Tampa
and you can tell what type of area you are in by the trash. Yes I know
government should have someone follow you and pick up after you.
. You know everywhere I live we clean our own neighborhoods not the
government.
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On Tue, 15 May 2012 07:24:43 -0600, Yoor...@Jurgis.net wrote:
>On Mon, 14 May 2012 21:16:11 -0700, MattB
><trdel...@Nomorespamgmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 14 May 2012 21:49:53 -0600, Yoor...@Jurgis.net wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 14 May 2012 16:41:07 -0700, MattB
>>><trdel...@Nomorespamgmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>THere is no "Socialism"
>>>>
>>>> Then I owe you nothing. Good my property is safe. Again good.
>>>
>>>Wouldn't want anything of yours
>>>
>>>What "we" want is for you to pay yer taxes like a good American and
>>>stop bitching about it when you have to pay more than your share
>>>because of the political ideology you support.
>>
>> See again you make things up. I have said I am willing for the Bush
>>Tax cuts to be allowed to expire. Let the tax rate go back to what
>>they were in the Clinton years. No Problem. Then again I think
>>people in Sec 8 should clean the area also. Welfare people should
>>help out by cleaning roads. They should be given the chance to take 1
>>area of study in a field to find work.
>
>
>>On Mon, 14 May 2012 21:49:53 -0600, Yoor...@Jurgis.net wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 14 May 2012 16:41:07 -0700, MattB
>>><trdel...@Nomorespamgmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>THere is no "Socialism"
>>>>
>>>> Then I owe you nothing. Good my property is safe. Again good.
>>>
>>>Wouldn't want anything of yours
>>>
>>>What "we" want is for you to pay yer taxes like a good American and
>>>stop bitching about it when you have to pay more than your share
>>>because of the political ideology you support.
>>
>> See again you make things up. I have said I am willing for the Bush
>>Tax cuts to be allowed to expire. Let the tax rate go back to what
>>they were in the Clinton years. No Problem. Then again I think
>>people in Sec 8 should clean the area also. Welfare people should
>>help out by cleaning roads. They should be given the chance to take 1
>>area of study in a field to find work.
>
>Ah--so involuntary servitude is on your plate?
So that is what you think of people with Jobs. OK.
Like I thought you just want free handouts.
>
>CLeaning roads is a government function.
Tampa
and you can tell what type of area you are in by the trash. Yes I know
government should have someone follow you and pick up after you.
. You know everywhere I live we clean our own neighborhoods not the
government.
>
>> All Conservatives aren't the same.
>
>> All Conservatives aren't the same.
>
>All conservatives who embrace the Republican (because they represent
>conservatives) are the same.
Whatever
>conservatives) are the same.
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C...@prayforme.com
May 15, 2012, 10:00:08 PM5/15/12
to
On Tue, 15 May 2012 04:40:57 +0000 (UTC), "Winston Smith, American
Patriot" <Franz...@Oceania.WhiteHouse.GOV.invalid> wrote:
>"C...@PrayForMe.com" <C...@PrayForMe.com> wrote on Mon 14 May 2012 09:45:04p
>
>> On Mon, 14 May 2012 11:15:16 -0700, MattB
>> <trdel...@Nomorespamgmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 14 May 2012 16:53:06 +0000 (UTC), 2966 Dead <de...@gone.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/9112-why-the-occupy-movement-frightens-
>>>>the-corporate-elite
>>>>
>>>>Why the Occupy Movement Frightens the Corporate Elite
>>>>Monday, 14 May 2012 10:17 By Chris Hedges, Truthdig | Op-Ed
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have seen a few OWS demands that are fair and some that are
>>>crazy. You do need to be careful. The people you need to pay for
>>>all this are leaving the US. Over 1000 this year. You need to keep
>>>the tax base.
>>>
>>> I do agree we need to raise taxes and cut spending. We just don't
>>>want to end up like Greece.
>>>
>>> Personally I consider both the Tea Party and the Liberal Progressives
>>>to be wrong. We need a middle ground.
>>
>> It'll never happen until we elect strict constructionists, people who
>> know how to cut fat and waste. Romney needs a super majority of Tea
>> Party Conservatives (not necessarily Republican) in both houses.
>
>Well, so much for poster "MattB"'s call for compromise. The right-wing
>scumbag side has spoken.
It's Oboobuh who's going after the scumbag/OWS vote and I'm no Oboobuh
Patriot" <Franz...@Oceania.WhiteHouse.GOV.invalid> wrote:
>"C...@PrayForMe.com" <C...@PrayForMe.com> wrote on Mon 14 May 2012 09:45:04p
>
>> On Mon, 14 May 2012 11:15:16 -0700, MattB
>> <trdel...@Nomorespamgmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 14 May 2012 16:53:06 +0000 (UTC), 2966 Dead <de...@gone.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/9112-why-the-occupy-movement-frightens-
>>>>the-corporate-elite
>>>>
>>>>Why the Occupy Movement Frightens the Corporate Elite
>>>>Monday, 14 May 2012 10:17 By Chris Hedges, Truthdig | Op-Ed
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have seen a few OWS demands that are fair and some that are
>>>crazy. You do need to be careful. The people you need to pay for
>>>all this are leaving the US. Over 1000 this year. You need to keep
>>>the tax base.
>>>
>>> I do agree we need to raise taxes and cut spending. We just don't
>>>want to end up like Greece.
>>>
>>> Personally I consider both the Tea Party and the Liberal Progressives
>>>to be wrong. We need a middle ground.
>>
>> It'll never happen until we elect strict constructionists, people who
>> know how to cut fat and waste. Romney needs a super majority of Tea
>> Party Conservatives (not necessarily Republican) in both houses.
>
>Well, so much for poster "MattB"'s call for compromise. The right-wing
>scumbag side has spoken.
voter
>
>> Without painful austerity and a projected message of fiscal
>> responsibility, capital will continue to leave America just as the
>> rich are leaving California and NY.
>
>The first order of business of the next federal government will be to revoke
>all visas of the rich who are renouncing their U.S. citizenship. The
>corporations will no longer get government contracts, since those are easily
>conditioned on U.S. citizenship.
>
>Wanna make China and India rich? Don't let the door hit your ass on the way
>out.
Hope your home in Shanghai or Mumbai is able to insulate itself from
>the filthy infrastructure the 99% of those countries live in.
Oh, we hope
>that you are not one of the aristocrats that are caught in their villas when
>the popular peoples' revolutions take over.
paragraphs.
>
>> We are becoming Greece and now France because politicians care more
>> for their positions than the countries true welfare.
>
>Greece's problem is different from that of France, you idiot.
>
>France sees the UK under its right wing and its return to a recession under
>the Tories and say, "it's time for GROWTH, not AUSTERITY."
>
>If the American voter is smart, it will put out of office all those crepe
>hangers and those who treasonously put party over nation and in the process
>try to hurt the nation. Time to put the Democrats back in charge so that
>they can let Obama implement his program fully, and not halfway.
Presidency since 2008, the economy plummeted with their stewardship.
Obama came into office threatening the oil industry and fuel prices
necessarily skyrocketed. He threatened healthcare and insurance
companies raised prices as did hospitals.
There's NOTHING Oboobuh's done to benefit anyone other than his
friends.
>
>> Like Magnus said, "The problem isn't that government hasn't enough
>> money, it's that government spends to much"
>
>I hope Magnus knew how to spell English better.
>
>Obama has offered the TRULY BALANCED approach: entitlement cuts and
>adjustments as well as tax increases on the criminally wealthy. Even when
>the Bush Tax Cuts for the 1% expire, it won't be enough. The days of the
>fabulously wealthy living it up are over, but only if America cleans out the
>right wing scum causing gridlock in the Congress.
proposed a budget.
You're a commie, aint'chuh?
>
>Obama has stopped one of Bush's criminal and expensive wars, and will attempt
>to cut down to 10% of what is being spent in Afghanistan.
>
>Obama has made Bush and Cheney look like amateurs in the national security
>area.
MattB
May 15, 2012, 10:07:38 PM5/15/12
to
is total surrender.
Liberal Here
May 16, 2012, 2:54:48 PM5/16/12
to
On May 15, 9:54 am, Slackfest <baron.von.m...@gmail.com> wrote:
there isn't a Congress or Parliament involved?
>
> >> All Conservatives aren't the same.
>
> > All conservatives who embrace the Republican (because they represent
> > conservatives) are the same.
>
> I'd sooner 'embrace' a cactus..
>
> --Less pricks there..
And the cactus objects to the big prick hugging it. You can tell, the
cactus doesn't hug back.
> On 5/15/2012 8:24 AM, Yoorg...@Jurgis.net wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mon, 14 May 2012 21:16:11 -0700, MattB
> > <trdell1...@Nomorespamgmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mon, 14 May 2012 21:16:11 -0700, MattB
>
> >> On Mon, 14 May 2012 21:49:53 -0600, Yoorg...@Jurgis.net wrote:
>
> >>> On Mon, 14 May 2012 16:41:07 -0700, MattB
> >>> <trdell1...@Nomorespamgmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Mon, 14 May 2012 21:49:53 -0600, Yoorg...@Jurgis.net wrote:
>
> >>> On Mon, 14 May 2012 16:41:07 -0700, MattB
> --->
> >>>> Then I owe you nothing. Good my property is safe. Again good.
>
> >>> Wouldn't want anything of yours
>
> >>> What "we" want is for you to pay yer taxes like a good American and
> >>> stop bitching about it when you have to pay more than your share
> >>> because of the political ideology you support.
>
> >> See again you make things up. I have said I am willing for the Bush
> >> Tax cuts to be allowed to expire. Let the tax rate go back to what
> >> they were in the Clinton years. No Problem. Then again I think
> >> people in Sec 8 should clean the area also. Welfare people should
> >> help out by cleaning roads. They should be given the chance to take 1
> >> area of study in a field to find work.
>
> > Ah--so involuntary servitude is on your plate?
>
> You don't seem surprised by that, and of course private
> prisons are already skirting labor laws in a similar manner..
>
> > CLeaning roads is a government function.
>
> And sometimes community-oriented groups..
But, stupid, that **IS** socialism. What? It ain't **SOCIALISM** if
> >>>> Then I owe you nothing. Good my property is safe. Again good.
>
> >>> Wouldn't want anything of yours
>
> >>> What "we" want is for you to pay yer taxes like a good American and
> >>> stop bitching about it when you have to pay more than your share
> >>> because of the political ideology you support.
>
> >> See again you make things up. I have said I am willing for the Bush
> >> Tax cuts to be allowed to expire. Let the tax rate go back to what
> >> they were in the Clinton years. No Problem. Then again I think
> >> people in Sec 8 should clean the area also. Welfare people should
> >> help out by cleaning roads. They should be given the chance to take 1
> >> area of study in a field to find work.
>
> > Ah--so involuntary servitude is on your plate?
>
> You don't seem surprised by that, and of course private
> prisons are already skirting labor laws in a similar manner..
>
> > CLeaning roads is a government function.
>
> And sometimes community-oriented groups..
there isn't a Congress or Parliament involved?
>
> >> All Conservatives aren't the same.
>
> > All conservatives who embrace the Republican (because they represent
> > conservatives) are the same.
>
> I'd sooner 'embrace' a cactus..
>
> --Less pricks there..
cactus doesn't hug back.
Liberal Here
May 16, 2012, 2:51:16 PM5/16/12
to
On May 15, 9:54 am, Slackfest <baron.von.m...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 5/15/2012 8:24 AM, Yoorg...@Jurgis.net wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mon, 14 May 2012 21:16:11 -0700, MattB
> > <trdell1...@Nomorespamgmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mon, 14 May 2012 21:16:11 -0700, MattB
>
> >> On Mon, 14 May 2012 21:49:53 -0600, Yoorg...@Jurgis.net wrote:
>
> >>> On Mon, 14 May 2012 16:41:07 -0700, MattB
> >>> <trdell1...@Nomorespamgmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Mon, 14 May 2012 21:49:53 -0600, Yoorg...@Jurgis.net wrote:
>
> >>> On Mon, 14 May 2012 16:41:07 -0700, MattB
> --->
> >>>> Then I owe you nothing. Good my property is safe. Again good.
>
> >>> Wouldn't want anything of yours
>
> >>> What "we" want is for you to pay yer taxes like a good American and
> >>> stop bitching about it when you have to pay more than your share
> >>> because of the political ideology you support.
>
> >> See again you make things up. I have said I am willing for the Bush
> >> Tax cuts to be allowed to expire. Let the tax rate go back to what
> >> they were in the Clinton years. No Problem. Then again I think
> >> people in Sec 8 should clean the area also. Welfare people should
> >> help out by cleaning roads. They should be given the chance to take 1
> >> area of study in a field to find work.
>
> > Ah--so involuntary servitude is on your plate?
>
> You don't seem surprised by that, and of course private
> prisons are already skirting labor laws in a similar manner..
>
> > CLeaning roads is a government function.
>
> And sometimes community-oriented groups..
>
> >> All Conservatives aren't the same.
>
> > All conservatives who embrace the Republican (because they represent
> > conservatives) are the same.
>
> I'd sooner 'embrace' a cactus..
>
> --Less pricks there..
Yeah....but one stupid one does the embracing. The cactus would rather
> >>>> Then I owe you nothing. Good my property is safe. Again good.
>
> >>> Wouldn't want anything of yours
>
> >>> What "we" want is for you to pay yer taxes like a good American and
> >>> stop bitching about it when you have to pay more than your share
> >>> because of the political ideology you support.
>
> >> See again you make things up. I have said I am willing for the Bush
> >> Tax cuts to be allowed to expire. Let the tax rate go back to what
> >> they were in the Clinton years. No Problem. Then again I think
> >> people in Sec 8 should clean the area also. Welfare people should
> >> help out by cleaning roads. They should be given the chance to take 1
> >> area of study in a field to find work.
>
> > Ah--so involuntary servitude is on your plate?
>
> You don't seem surprised by that, and of course private
> prisons are already skirting labor laws in a similar manner..
>
> > CLeaning roads is a government function.
>
> And sometimes community-oriented groups..
>
> >> All Conservatives aren't the same.
>
> > All conservatives who embrace the Republican (because they represent
> > conservatives) are the same.
>
> I'd sooner 'embrace' a cactus..
>
> --Less pricks there..
not.
Liberal Here
May 16, 2012, 2:48:29 PM5/16/12
to
On May 14, 7:41 pm, MattB <trdell1...@Nomorespamgmail.com> wrote:
wealthy...your insanity will have some merit.
Please stop using all socialist goods and services (roads, education,
police, fire, Postal Service, etc.) and maintain your wealth all on
your own.
> On Mon, 14 May 2012 16:21:33 -0600, Yoorg...@Jurgis.net wrote:
> >On Mon, 14 May 2012 11:54:59 -0700, MattB
> ><trdell1...@Nomorespamgmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> The Tea Party wants a corporate State and a aristocracy. The Liberal
> >>Progressives want a socialist government. I can support neither.
> >>Guess I better start packing my bags. ;-))
>
> >You get more stupid each day, Mattloon
>
> >Name a fucking industry, business, law, policy, program that ANY
> >government under Carter, Clinton or Obama has taken over and then
> >allowed it to be run by fiat from the public, or by government with an
> >goal of control of means of production and distribution
>
> >You keep the cheap use of words flowing as if they had any meaning.
>
> >THere is no "Socialism"
>
> Then I owe you nothing. Good my property is safe. Again good.
When you move to a small government place such as Somalia and become
> >On Mon, 14 May 2012 11:54:59 -0700, MattB
> ><trdell1...@Nomorespamgmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> The Tea Party wants a corporate State and a aristocracy. The Liberal
> >>Progressives want a socialist government. I can support neither.
> >>Guess I better start packing my bags. ;-))
>
> >You get more stupid each day, Mattloon
>
> >Name a fucking industry, business, law, policy, program that ANY
> >government under Carter, Clinton or Obama has taken over and then
> >allowed it to be run by fiat from the public, or by government with an
> >goal of control of means of production and distribution
>
> >You keep the cheap use of words flowing as if they had any meaning.
>
> >THere is no "Socialism"
>
> Then I owe you nothing. Good my property is safe. Again good.
wealthy...your insanity will have some merit.
Please stop using all socialist goods and services (roads, education,
police, fire, Postal Service, etc.) and maintain your wealth all on
your own.
MattB
May 16, 2012, 4:50:16 PM5/16/12
to
On Wed, 16 May 2012 11:48:29 -0700 (PDT), Liberal Here
<liber...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On May 14, 7:41 pm, MattB <trdell1...@Nomorespamgmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 14 May 2012 16:21:33 -0600, Yoorg...@Jurgis.net wrote:
>> >On Mon, 14 May 2012 11:54:59 -0700, MattB
>> ><trdell1...@Nomorespamgmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> The Tea Party wants a corporate State and a aristocracy. The Liberal
>> >>Progressives want a socialist government. I can support neither.
>> >>Guess I better start packing my bags. ;-))
>>
>> >You get more stupid each day, Mattloon
>>
>> >Name a fucking industry, business, law, policy, program that ANY
>> >government under Carter, Clinton or Obama has taken over and then
>> >allowed it to be run by fiat from the public, or by government with an
>> >goal of control of means of production and distribution
>>
>> >You keep the cheap use of words flowing as if they had any meaning.
>>
>> >THere is no "Socialism"
>>
>> Then I owe you nothing. Good my property is safe. Again good.
>
>When you move to a small government place such as Somalia and become
>wealthy...your insanity will have some merit.
I pay my taxes and don't complain. I do not owe you liberals a
<liber...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On May 14, 7:41 pm, MattB <trdell1...@Nomorespamgmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 14 May 2012 16:21:33 -0600, Yoorg...@Jurgis.net wrote:
>> >On Mon, 14 May 2012 11:54:59 -0700, MattB
>> ><trdell1...@Nomorespamgmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> The Tea Party wants a corporate State and a aristocracy. The Liberal
>> >>Progressives want a socialist government. I can support neither.
>> >>Guess I better start packing my bags. ;-))
>>
>> >You get more stupid each day, Mattloon
>>
>> >Name a fucking industry, business, law, policy, program that ANY
>> >government under Carter, Clinton or Obama has taken over and then
>> >allowed it to be run by fiat from the public, or by government with an
>> >goal of control of means of production and distribution
>>
>> >You keep the cheap use of words flowing as if they had any meaning.
>>
>> >THere is no "Socialism"
>>
>> Then I owe you nothing. Good my property is safe. Again good.
>
>When you move to a small government place such as Somalia and become
>wealthy...your insanity will have some merit.
free ride, someone has to work.
>
>Please stop using all socialist goods and services (roads, education,
>police, fire, Postal Service, etc.) and maintain your wealth all on
>your own.
Bite me. All Americans that pay taxes pay for those services. So
>Please stop using all socialist goods and services (roads, education,
>police, fire, Postal Service, etc.) and maintain your wealth all on
>your own.
again liberal freaks bite me. You are all so strange and live in a
world of make believe.
So now the Liberal Progressives claim Conservatives don't pay any
taxes. I think we need a Flat tax with no deductions for everyone.
Fair and then all liberals would pay taxes.
Bob LeChevalier
May 22, 2012, 7:36:44 AM5/22/12
to
"C...@PrayForMe.com" <C...@PrayForMe.com> wrote:
>>>We are becoming Greece and now France because politicians care more
>>>for their positions than the countries true welfare.
>>>
>>>Like Magnus said, "The problem isn't that government hasn't enough
>>>money, it's that government spends to much"
>>
>> Well in this you are half right IMO. The Bush Tax cuts were a
>>mistake. Deregulating the financial markets was a mistake.
>
>The Bush tax breaks post 9/11 rocked the frigging world!
Not hardly.
>>>We are becoming Greece and now France because politicians care more
>>>for their positions than the countries true welfare.
>>>
>>>Like Magnus said, "The problem isn't that government hasn't enough
>>>money, it's that government spends to much"
>>
>> Well in this you are half right IMO. The Bush Tax cuts were a
>>mistake. Deregulating the financial markets was a mistake.
>
>The Bush tax breaks post 9/11 rocked the frigging world!
>The greatest expansion in American history took place after 9/11
recession.
2001-12-31 11.37 trillion
2006-12-31 13.04 trillion
2008-12-31 12.88 trillion
an average 2.8% growth over the 5 peak years. Over Bush's full 8
years, it was only 1.6%.
>because of tax cuts!
Not hardly. Actually, much of the increase was due to increased
government spending. Federal outlays in FY2001 were $1.86 trillion, in
2006, 2.66 trillion, in 2008, 2.98 trillion. So roughly half of the
growth in the economy from 2001-2006 was from increase in federal
spending, and it increases to over 70% over 2001-2008.
>You may have a short memory but I don't. The Bush tax cuts resulted in
>the greatest economic expansion in world history!
1992-12-31 8.41 trillion
2000-12-31 11.32 trillion
3.8% average growth over the full 8 years of Clinton's term.
1980-12-31 5.88 trillion
1988-12-31 7.73 trillion
3.5% average growth over the full 8 years of Saint Ronnie's term.
1963-12-31 3.26 trillion
1968-12-31 4.17 trillion
5.0% average growth over the 5 years of LBJ's term
Even much-maligned Jimmy Carter managed an average 3.2% over his full
4 years, which is better than Junior managed in your cherry-picking 5
best years.
>> The Tea Party wants a corporate State and a aristocracy.
>
>No we don't!
>We want the market to decide it's own future. Companies
>get big because over regulation prevents the little guy from
>competing.
government regulation of monopolies. Regulation is what keeps big
corporations from stomping little ones into the mud.
>It costs a lot of money to get set up in business so overhead must be
>covered. Tack on permits, impact studies, Certificate of Occupancy ,
>EPA regulations governing cleaning chemicals and child labor, HTF and
>any small business compete with the mean rich chains who serve
>Monsanto crap?
successful small businesses. And some of the biggest were rather
small only a few years ago.
lojbab
---
Bob LeChevalier - artificial linguist; genealogist
loj...@lojban.org Lojban language www.lojban.org
Bob Officer
Jun 13, 2012, 8:41:30 PM6/13/12
to
On 5/22/2012 5:36 AM, Bob LeChevalier wrote:
>> The Bush tax breaks post 9/11 rocked the frigging world!
> Not hardly.
>
What, there was no Krill deduction for you, Shamu?
>> The Bush tax breaks post 9/11 rocked the frigging world!
> Not hardly.
>
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