Republicans Hurt Health Care...
Nicole Dawn Maschke
--
Greetings...
- The other day, in Ohio, it was brought out how the republicans, due to
their not taking action on health care, have left an entire southern Ohio
population without any medical coverage, for the elderly. Of couse
assholes like trent lott could care less. I mean, he's a christian and has
all the health care that he could want. So what does he care about those
who are poor are are in need. Thus, he does not feel compelled to act with
deliberation with regard to providing health care for those who desperately
need it.
As I said yesterday, According to NBC News and Fox News, the health care
reform package that the republicans are pushing will only provide patients
rights to those people who pay for their HMO policies themselves. For
those who work for a company and get their HMO policy from the company they
are not given any rights at all.
And the health care reform package that the republicans are pushing does
not give anyone the right to sue the hmo, even if the hmo denies care, and
the person dies. Thus, the republicans are in favor of the hmo taking
advantage of those who get their hmo programs from work, and are in favor
of not allowing anyone injured by an hmo to seek damages for the wrong
doing by an hmo... just another typical example of the republicans and how
they are not in favor of helping the common person in our nation. They are
for helping rich white christians...
Ever wonder why the christians won't ever allow anyone to be president who
is not a white male straight christian? The reason is simple... They don't
trust anyone other than themselves..... Now there's tolerance for you...
From CNN:
Senate Leaves For Recess Stalled On Health Care Reform
The Senate has begun its summer break, which will last through Sept. 7.
Before it adjourned for vacation the Senate failed to make progress on
the health care reform bill, often called the "patients' bill of
rights." House Republicans approved a managed-care bill on July 24.
Democrats consider the GOP version inadequate, with too few tools for
consumers to enforce their rights. But the bill hit a roadblock in the
Senate, with party leaders arguing over how much debate there should be
before a vote.
For the full story, visit:
http://allpolitics.com/1998/07/30/senate.hmo/
Remember....
Religion is just an excuse that idiots use to to tell someone else what to
believe in when the person is just too stupid to figure it out on their
own... Religion is for who fear hell...Spirituality is for those who have
been there...
Be Well...
Nicole Dawn Maschke
P.O. Box 602696, Cleve.,OH, 44102
The Phoenix: http://home.earthlink.net/~jmwindgate/phoenix.html
Political/Human Rights Mailing List: jmwin...@earthlink.net
ICQ: 439028
Online Hours: 09:00 - 16:00 EDT
The mind is like a book... Open and much is learned. Closed and nothing is
learned.... The Key To suviving the future is to always be adaptable to
constant change...
guesswho
Greetings...
- The other day, in Ohio, it was brought out how the republicans, due to
their not taking action on health care, have left an entire southern
Ohio
population without any medical coverage, for the elderly. Of couse
assholes like trent lott could care less. I mean, he's a christian and
has
all the health care that he could want. So what does he care about those
who are poor are are in need. Thus, he does not feel compelled to act
with
deliberation with regard to providing health care for those who
desperately
need it.
Just to clue you in babe, we aren't socialist. Babe, we don't have
public health care. So let me tell sweet heart, just to get it clear
babe, health care is the person's responsibility, not the goverments.
Dana Raffaniello
guesswho wrote in message <35C7880D...@physics.isu.edu>...
But Nicole since she has spent her entire liberal life on welfare, just like
the liberals want, really belives that the liberal ideology of socialism
over freedom is the best way to go.
Gary L. Dare
: Just to clue you in babe, we aren't socialist. Babe, we don't have
: public health care. So let me tell sweet heart, just to get it clear
: babe, health care is the person's responsibility, not the goverments.
What about America's favorite health insurance plan (especially
among Republicans with elder parents!) ... Medicare?
--
Gary L. Dare
g...@ripco.com
phls...@flash.net
guesswho wrote:
> Nichole the troll wrote:
> Greetings...
>
> - The other day, in Ohio, it was brought out how the republicans, due to
>
> their not taking action on health care, have left an entire southern
> Ohio
> population without any medical coverage, for the elderly. Of couse
> assholes like trent lott could care less. I mean, he's a christian and
> has
> all the health care that he could want. So what does he care about those
>
> who are poor are are in need. Thus, he does not feel compelled to act
> with
> deliberation with regard to providing health care for those who
> desperately
> need it.
>
> Just to clue you in babe, we aren't socialist. Babe, we don't have
> public health care. So let me tell sweet heart, just to get it clear
> babe, health care is the person's responsibility, not the goverments.
Oh, but we are socialists. At least for the big corporations, like the big
oil companies who take oil from public land and decide what they will pay.
They have been feeding at the public trough for years at our expense.
You Republicans are for that type of welfare.
cl...@ans.com.au
"Nicole Dawn Maschke" <jmwin...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
First - somebody get a fifty meter running start and hit this liberal bitch
with a 7 foot 2x4 with a two-pound rock bolt on the end so hard that when she
wakes up she thinks its Christmas. That is just a freebie, just to warm her up
and get her diseased, crypto-communist brain oriented right.
> Greetings...
>
> - The other day, in Ohio, it was brought out how the republicans, due to
> their not taking action on health care, have left an entire southern Ohio
> population without any medical coverage, for the elderly. Of couse
> assholes like trent lott could care less. I mean, he's a christian and has
> all the health care that he could want. So what does he care about those
> who are poor are are in need. Thus, he does not feel compelled to act with
> deliberation with regard to providing health care for those who desperately
> need it.
You poor demented envious self-righteous phony marxist bitch, do you have ANY
understanding at all of market systems, human history, economics theory, or
are you aware of the failures of resource redistribution schemes administered
by government? Do you really think anybody can eat more bread than they can
bake? Were you born this stupid, or is it something you had to work at?
Do you know anything about Sweden, France, Australia, Canada, the former
Soviet Union, Cuba or England where nuts like you actually create socialist
policy and put it into effect? Do you know what living hellholes these
countries are?
> As I said yesterday, According to NBC News and Fox News, the health care
> reform package that the republicans are pushing will only provide patients
> rights to those people who pay for their HMO policies themselves. For
> those who work for a company and get their HMO policy from the company they
> are not given any rights at all.
"Rights" come from producer submission to market demand, competition and
consumer choice. Public health care is worth exactly what you pay for it -
nothing. I live in Australia - public health care is basically a giant baby-
killing machine you pay to keep oiled with your tax dollars. You pay the
government everything you make and in return they cut off your scrotum,
accidentally inject you with cyanide instead of vaccine and transmit a nice
flesh-eating virus onto your ear. Don't like it? Tough sh*t! Public health
care doesn't answer to the client! The committee will conduct an
investigation and get back to you in say ... twenty years!!!!
Why don't you live in Britain, France or Canada if you love government health
care so much? Could it be because these countries are socialist death traps
that will kill anybody stupid enough to seek advice from a socialist doctor?
The health care in the United States is the best in the world. It will get
better as it becomes more deregulated and more producers can enter the service
sector, but it kicks the ass off any country in the world by a wide margin
right now.
This is why communists who live in free countries deserve to be beaten and
spit on in the streets ... they have the choice to move to a wonderful
socialized country but they never seem to take it. They'd rather stay here,
eat at McDonald's and talk a bunch of gibberish.
> And the health care reform package that the republicans are pushing does
> not give anyone the right to sue the hmo, even if the hmo denies care, and
> the person dies. Thus, the republicans are in favor of the hmo taking
> advantage of those who get their hmo programs from work, and are in favor
> of not allowing anyone injured by an hmo to seek damages for the wrong
> doing by an hmo... just another typical example of the republicans and how
> they are not in favor of helping the common person in our nation. They are
> for helping rich white christians...
"Common person." Like you? But you are so uncommon.
Substitute "LOSER" for "COMMON" and you start to make more sense - your point
of view becomes apparent.
You keep harping on these "rich" people. Is it fair to suggest you are
"poor?" And maybe envious about it? With all your talk of Spirituality, did
you ever wonder if maybe envy was in fact a character weakness, not a moral
calling? Perhaps it is the same character weakness that makes you a poor
person to begin with.
> Ever wonder why the christians won't ever allow anyone to be president who
> is not a white male straight christian? The reason is simple... They don't
> trust anyone other than themselves..... Now there's tolerance for you...
No, they tend to think that screeching high-strung black lesbians with horn-
rimmed glasses and berets on plus a button that reads "ABBIE HOFFMAN DIED FOR
YOUR SINS" are unstable pathetic weirdos. Perhaps because they are.
Show us all an intelligent, black female homosexual with leadership qualities
and a stable personality and I guarantee you they could have a shot at the
presidency in this country. We could not do too much worse than your communist
ass-monkey lover boy Clinton and his all-star Hollywood liberal loser
entourage. Anything from this guy is uphill as far as I am concerned. I'd
consider Urkel, Snoop Doggy-Dog or Buckwheat for President at this point. I
figure if they can staple their dick to their leg for four years they're going
to be way ahead of Willy's sad story. If they could only smoke dope on
Saturdays while President they'd be damn near Winston Churchill at that
juncture in my estimation.
> Remember....
>
> Religion is just an excuse that idiots use to to tell someone else what to
> believe in when the person is just too stupid to figure it out on their
> own... Religion is for who fear hell...Spirituality is for those who have
> been there...
>
Or "Spirituality" could be for people who can't hold down a day job and spend
way too much time indoors watching Oprah, as well.
Please - get active about a life! How about some activism with some clean
laundry, change the kitty litter box this year and flip through some want ads
for a change? Instead of trying to "save the world" - why not save yourself
first?
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Stan
<raf...@email.msn.com> wrote:
> guesswho wrote in message <35C7880D...@physics.isu.edu>...
> >Nichole wrote:
> >- The other day, in Ohio, it was brought out how the republicans, due to
> >
> >their not taking action on health care, have left an entire southern
> >Ohio
> >population without any medical coverage, for the elderly. Of couse
> >assholes like trent lott could care less. I mean, he's a christian and
> >has
> >all the health care that he could want. So what does he care about those
> >
> >who are poor are are in need. Thus, he does not feel compelled to act
> >with
> >deliberation with regard to providing health care for those who
> >desperately
> >need it.
> >Just to clue you in babe, we aren't socialist. Babe, we don't have
> >public health care. So let me tell sweet heart, just to get it clear
> >babe, health care is the person's responsibility, not the goverments.
> But Nicole since she has spent her entire liberal life on welfare, just like
> the liberals want, really belives that the liberal ideology of socialism
> over freedom is the best way to go.
The US is the only industrialized country that does not have a universal
healthcare program. Canada, France, Germany, etc. all pay *less* than we do
for our non-system, and all citizens are guaranteed coverage. As a result,
they live longer than we do.
In health insurance, socialism is a far more efficient, and fairer, system
than the capitalist system in the US that denies about 43 million any
coverage at all and restricts the care of even those who do have coverage,
just to insure that insurance company CEOs pull down big salaries and
shareholders make massive profits.
Nichole is right on her initial point: Trent Lott and Newt Gingrich get
socialized medicine, but most their constituents don't. Do you think that
Jesse Helms had to call an HMO bureaucrat and a lawyer to beg for his
recent hip-replacement surgery? No way; he went to the doctor of his choice
and had the procedure in a timely fashion.
Why don't the Republicans want the rest of us to get that kind of care?
--Stan
If we let HMOs run the post office, 43 million Americans wouldn't get any mail.
Matthew N. Sharp
> guesswho wrote:
>
> > Nichole the troll wrote:
> > Greetings...
> >>[irritating tripe deleted]
>>
> > Just to clue you in babe, we aren't socialist. Babe, we don't have
> > public health care. So let me tell sweet heart, just to get it clear
> > babe, health care is the person's responsibility, not the goverments.
>
> Oh, but we are socialists. At least for the big corporations, like the big
> oil companies who take oil from public land and decide what they will pay.
> They have been feeding at the public trough for years at our expense.
Semantically, this is inaccurate. But I think you know that, so
let's get to the heart of the matter.
When the government gives money to an individual to
feed, clothe, and house them, they see no return on that
investment in benefits for anyone but that individual (and
perhaps his/her family).
However, when the government gives money to the
Chrysler corporation, the Chrysler corporation stays in
business, grows to be more productive and profitable,
retains its employees, gives them raises, and hires new
employees, who, in turn, make new products to sell to
other people with jobs. This benefits more people than
the financial recipients, and is therefore smarter spending
of the "government's" money, from a people-helping
perspective.
I will not argue that the corporations in this world are
trustworthy organizations, worthy of recieving the
"government's" money, as I would personally like to see
no money given to anyone, as it is, in fact, my money,
not the government's. Nonetheless, I am not naive enough
to think that will change.
My point, in summary, is that the logic you use
is over-simplified. I also believe that the reason you
over-simplified it (providing you the benefit of the
doubt, here) is because you are emotionally and
intellectually tied to a tidy political "platform", which
requires the use of the "other" political "platform" as
an enemy. From observing American Politics, one oft
does not come to the conclusion that either party
provides, or even has any interest in providing, any
real solutions to problems. One is frequently impressed,
though, by the efficiency with which both parties operate
(if not in unison, then certainly in a mutually beneficial
manner) against their enthusiasts, dividing them
psychologically, when in actuality, there is no substantial
difference between the two "ideologies".
It takes a lot of luck, a fair amount of skill, or an incredible
number of pliable individuals to keep something this
efficient going.
>
> You Republicans are for that type of welfare.
Evidence.
matthew n. sharp
-
mnsharp[at]nonsequitur.net-link.net [something isn't neededl]
guesswho
The US is the only industrialized country that does not have a universal
healthcare program. Canada, France, Germany, etc. all pay *less* than we
do
for our non-system, and all citizens are guaranteed coverage. As a
result,
they live longer than we do.
I don't think you can find statistics that say they live longer. Second
thier systems are economically unsound and a black whole. Thier economy
can't support thier systems and they are trying to privatize portions of
it. We are much larger than these countries and could not support a
socialist healthcare system. Next, name one that has better services and
care? Name one that doesn't send people over to the US for treatment of
serious problems like heart surgery? Name one that allows for elective
surgery like ACL replacement.
Stan rambles on:
In health insurance, socialism is a far more efficient, and fairer,
system
than the capitalist system in the US that denies about 43 million any
coverage at all and restricts the care of even those who do have
coverage,
just to insure that insurance company CEOs pull down big salaries and
shareholders make massive profits.
It is a company. Insurance company. If you think they make too much
money, buy stock. Second, name a system more efficient than our system
and give a few references. We provide more healthcare in this country
than any other country. Our figures for GNP do not segregate out
cosmetic surgery or elective surgery. We do more surgeries, heart,
corrective than all the other countries, the reason, they don't have the
resources. They made it a goverment commodity and made it scarce to save
money.
Stan wrote:
Nichole is right on her initial point: Trent Lott and Newt Gingrich get
socialized medicine, but most their constituents don't. Do you think
that
Jesse Helms had to call an HMO bureaucrat and a lawyer to beg for his
recent hip-replacement surgery? No way; he went to the doctor of his
choice
and had the procedure in a timely fashion.
Why don't the Republicans want the rest of us to get that kind of care?
--Stan
If we let HMOs run the post office, 43 million Americans wouldn't get
any mail.
You are assuming I think that those people deserve what they got. That
is like saying gee george robbed a bank, I should be allowed to. I don't
think it is anymore correct for them to get medical treatment at the tax
payers expense than it is for you or I. You don't correct a wrong by
allowing everyone else to do it also, you correct it by stopping them.
guesswho
Oh, but we are socialists. At least for the big corporations, like the
big
oil companies who take oil from public land and decide what they will
pay.
They have been feeding at the public trough for years at our expense.
You Republicans are for that type of welfare.
Do you think that the oil companies get subsidies? Do you think the gas
tax is meant to help the oil companies? Name the subsidies that the oil
companies get from the goverment? They don't exsist. How about for
farmers, there are tons. The pay dearly for the leases that the get on
public lands. The strategic oil reserves and wells were drilled on
public land for the goverment.
Nicole Dawn Maschke
--
Greetings...
- What a good example of hate... I state facts and this republican jerk then
is not able to do anything other than complain... lmao...
Remember....
Religion is just an idiot's way of telling people what to believe in when
they are too stupid to figure it out on their own.... Religion is for people
who are afraid of hell.... Spirituality is for those who have been there...
Be Safe...
Nicole Dawn Maschke
P.O. Box 602696, Cleveland, Ohio 44102
The Phoenix: http://home.earthlink.net/~jmwindgate/phoenix.html
Political Mailing List: jmwin...@earthlink.net
ICQ: 439028
Online Hours: 09:00 - 16:00 EDT
Life is like a book... Close and nothing is learned... Opened and much is
learned... The key to surviving the future is to acquiesce to constant
change... ...
cl...@ans.com.au wrote in message <6q9jd8$j09$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
:In article <01bdbf92$65cff5a0$b1ae2499@phoenix>,
Matthew N. Sharp
wrote:
> --
> Greetings...
>
> - What a good example of hate... I state facts and this republican jerk then
> is not able to do anything other than complain... lmao...
The second sentence in this paragraph serves as a pretty
functional definition of "hate".
>
> Religion is just an idiot's way of telling people what to believe in when
> they are too stupid to figure it out on their own.... Religion is for people
> who are afraid of hell.... Spirituality is for those who have been there...
The first two sentences in this paragraph are prime examples
of "hate". The last is an example of condescension, which is
somewhat similar to hate. The three of them combined form
a rather unnerving picture of you psychologically.
Is everyone who disagrees with you a "hate monger"?
Are you aware that tolerance is spelled 'tolerance', not
'tollerance', or is the spelling error intentional, to check your
spell-checking software's tolerance (or should that be
'tollerance')?
Most importantly, where are your refutations of the facts
I stated about Northern Ireland? Or is your silence
implicative of your acknowledgement of your mistake(s)?
If you indeed have made _that_ mistake, is it not possible that the
basic premise by which you construct your entire Gestalt
is, as well, incorrect? My guess is that you are unable to
accept the fact that you make mistakes, and will reply, if
at all, very defensively, perhaps even accusing me of speaking
with 'hate'. It, as well, is possible that I will be conveniently
lumped in with the "evil christian republicans", so that you
may avoid reading what anyone actually says, and automatically
respond, enraged and self-righteous.
Quite seriously, you _need_ professional help. I say that
not to humiliate you, as you do that without assistance
very well. I say it because it is true.
Here's the breakdown:
- You suffered abuse.
- You now feel hatred towards not only the actual abusers,
but also anyone who remotely represents them.
- You spend a good portion of your life trying to "help" people
(at least according to your on-line claims).
Most academic shrinks would kill (not literally, by the way) to have a subject
like you to analyze and write about. You're textbook quality material.
You NEED help.
If you don't do it for yourself, do it for the people
you want to help.
More facts, for your reference,
matthew n. sharp
-
mns...@nonsequitur.net-link.net [mns]
byoung
>
> In article <one of many>, "Nicole Dawn Maschke" <jmwin...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
> > --
> > Greetings...
> >
> > - What a good example of hate... I state facts and this republican jerk then
> > is not able to do anything other than complain... lmao...
>
> functional definition of "hate".
Do you have an actual "functional" definition of "hate" by which to
compare?
> >
> > Religion is just an idiot's way of telling people what to believe in when
> > they are too stupid to figure it out on their own.... Religion is for people
> > who are afraid of hell.... Spirituality is for those who have been there...
>
> The first two sentences in this paragraph are prime examples
> of "hate".
I'm not sure to which sentence you refer. No periods, only "...."
Anyway, the modern manifestation of religion involves "beliefs" which
are the antithesis of true religion. Religion comes from the heart,
soul, and mind, not the Bible or the Pope. The latter are inherently
unreliable and certainly impersonal. I'd just as soon work it out in my
own mind as the situation requires than accept "religious dogma", a
contradiction in terms imho. So-called "religion" is people writing
down on paper what was never intended to be recorded or *taught* per se,
but rather ackowledged as existing in others and recognized as being
easily accessible via normal mental, physical, or spiritual excercise.
When religion must be taught it is useless and merely a "going through
the motions" (procedural-style church) for those who haven't a clue how
to tap into their own spirituality. Those who must "believe" are taking
the wrong approach. Typically those who "believe" can only find
themselves by criticizing those around them because they are essentially
lost souls. True Christians are tolerant; modern Christians are not
tolerant and therefore not true Christians. True Christians didn't use
violence, but rather were the ones being acted upon with violence; the
case is opposite today. Politics is the driving force behind modern
"religion", which is essentially a bunch of freaks who don't know what
their talking about pretending like they do. And even when a Christian
is tolerant, they often do so in a condescending manner, claiming that
they're helping you, like a savior, like Mother Theresa or other
missionaries.
Religion is the opiate for the masses. When you believe, your mind
stops functioning. Religious people aren't necessarily spiritual
people.
Jesus used cannabis as a sacrement and for his healing "miracles".
Jesus was just a man, not the one and only Son of God, but rather one of
many. We are all God's children. There was no immaculate conception
and if you believe that it says much about you psychologically. Namely
that you are sheep, following "the Word" simply because it's convenient
and painless and you don't have to explore your own life experiences,
but rather you can simply wait for the next coming of "The Savior".
> The last is an example of condescension, which is
> somewhat similar to hate. The three of them combined form
> a rather unnerving picture of you psychologically.
Condescension isn't similar to hate, though it certainly offends more
than hate. Hate is eventually destructive. At least for me,
condescension is a tool for making people feel dumb; which isn't harmful
in and of itself except to the ego, but it can be fixed which is my
intent, to demonstrate that not all think the same. On the otherhand,
if the person on the receiving end is hyper-sensitive, s/he may hate me
because someone told them once that it was bad to be dumb or a sheep.
Or is this what you meant by "functional definition of hate"?
....not to defend the original poster....
nina jones
> the liberals want, really belives that the liberal ideology of socialism
> over freedom is the best way to go.
definition of a liberal - they don't want the government to interfere with your private
life, but when you mess up the government should come in and bail you out.
cl...@ans.com.au
"Nicole Dawn Maschke" <jmwin...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
> - What a good example of hate... I state facts and this republican jerk then
> is not able to do anything other than complain... lmao...
>
Wrong, stone-age genetic throwback girl. My politics are libertarian, part of
a 2000 year old body of intellectual ideology first formulated by the Greeks
and then elaborated on by Hayek, Friedman, Lysander Spooner and a lot of
other people who differ from you in the following ways:
1. We're in possession of about 10 times your native intelligence
2. Many of us have won nobel prizes
3. We are financially successful and despise the idea that anyone anywhere is
obligated to pay for any of our needs in life
4. We support the Founding Fathers, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights -
unlike liberal kooks, we have actually READ these documents!
5. We are well informed enough to know that if we embrace unconstitutional
socialist political "ideas" (misnomer) there are plenty of countries we could
go to live in besides America where we would approximate making some kind of
sense in the context of our fugged-up minds and wacked-out ass-baggwards
notions about human existence
The sad truth is - you missed your genetic train stop. You would have been
right at home in a simple hunter-gatherer tribe with a communist society that
shared all goods, wives and property about 30,000 years ago. But you are sort
of a third wheel on the bicycle of modern civilization.
Free markets - free men. Privatize, deregulate, open up choices and destroy
government protected monopolies. It won't bring us a utopia but it won't be
far from it. Get on the intellectual power curve and stop making such a
ridiculous fool out of yourself with your snooty pretend moral indignation.
Being a loser does not mean you are a good person, it means you are a loser.
Being a loser does not mean you are more "spiritual," it means you are a
loser. Your overcompensation for your social failure to strive to build a
life for yourself is merely evidence you suffer from the same disease that
Karl Marx did ... you can't get and hold a day job. Period. Stop pretending
this makes you the patron saint of the poor - your delusional defense
mechanisms are revolting. You don't know a damn thing about the real poor and
wouldn't care anyway so stop being such a massive fake.
Gary L. Dare
: I don't think you can find statistics that say they live longer.
Yes, you can ...
Second
: thier systems are economically unsound and a black whole. Thier economy
What exactly do you think "their" systems are? HMO's are based
on the closed system methodology of the British National Health
Service ...
: can't support thier systems and they are trying to privatize portions of
... while Canada has essentially an extended form of Medicare,
but run by provinces with federal block grant underwriting, and
the health care services are private ...
... Germany gives a voucher subsidy for private health insurance,
like a proposal the Heritage Foundation claimed to have "invented"
five years ago ...
--
g...@ripco.com
g...@prairienet.org
"Je me souviens"
Gary L. Dare
: Do you know anything about Sweden, France, Australia, Canada, the former
: Soviet Union, Cuba or England where nuts like you actually create socialist
: policy and put it into effect? Do you know what living hellholes these
: countries are?
England has a 5% unemployment rate without incarcerating nearly 1%
of their population like the US does. It enjoys an "enterprise
economy" that is the legacy of Margaret Thatcher. Canada has a
balanced federal budget, and a pension setup more privatized than
any Social Security reforms presented so far: imagine pension tax
of 3% capped at $945 (versus 6.2%/$4240.80 for SS), and a $15,000
annual tax-free allowance that you have five years to use up, all
your own money in a self-directed account. No employer-fiddled
401K, no maybe-deductible IRA. Meanwhile, the US overtaxes SS
to subsidize tax revenues; this year's $63 Billion surplus is
a -$43 Billion deficit if Social Security trust fund loans are
excluded. Total trust fund loans triple or quadruple official
national debt (based on third party-held government bonds) and
being loans, are supposed to be paid back when Social Security
needs that money back after 2010 ...
It seems that somebody is looking the other way when it comes
to massive socialism in their own backyard ... )-;
--
Gary L. Dare
Nicole Dawn Maschke
--
Greetings....
- Get real... religion is a way for humans to give up on themselves and to
allow others to dictate what they should believe in, due to the fact that
most humans are too stupid, selfis, and braindead to be able to comprise a
definition of reality on their own... lmao...
Remember.....
The christians in the United States have never allowed a Black,
Hispanic, Jew, Muslim, American Indian, Asian, Woman or Gay to
serve as the President of the United States. The christians have
only allowed WHITE CHRISTIAN MALES to serve as President.
That's the Christian brand of freedom....
Freedom of religion in the United States means having a male
white christian president, christian laws, christian holidays,
christian judges, christian ethics, christian television,
christian calendars, christian morals, christian values and
christian lives forced on the entire population, regardless of
their religion ... Christians have killed, in the name of jesus,
Pagans, Jews and American Indians for refusing to convert to
their faith. Christians have bought and sold Blacks as property,
in the name of jesus, and raped the black women, and sold their
children, in the name of jesus. Christians have burned alive,
men, women and children in Salem, Massachusetts, in the name of
jesus. Now the christians are telling lies about gays and trying
to take away gay people's rights, as free American Citizens in
the United States. And when these christians are done with us
... they will come after YOU...
"Give me Liberty of Give Me Death!"
Patrick Henry
Be Safe ...
Nicole (dawn) Maschke
The Phoenix: http://home.earthlink.net/~jmwindgate/phoenix.html
Political Mailing List: jmwin...@earthlink.net
Land Mail: P.O. Box 602696, Cleveland, Ohio 44102
ICQ: soft dawn/439028
Online Hours: 0900 EDT - 1600 EDT
byoung wrote in message <35C8D9...@pacifier.com>...
:Matthew N. Sharp wrote:
Nicole Dawn Maschke
--
Greetings....
- You both are truly deluded. I worked for 20 years, from the time I was 16
to the time I was 39.... Before I was crippled from being raped. So...
NO... I did not spend my entire life on welfare. If you bothered to read my
bio on my web site you would find that I came from a very wealthy family,
that I was adopted into, before I turned my back on their shallow values and
the money... and struck out on my own to make my own way.
These attacks against me are just the christians way to trying to spread
hate against me, because they are unable to make me look bad... lmao... How
stupid...
Remember.....
Be Safe ...
nina jones wrote in message <35C91662...@datadesigninc.com>...
:> But Nicole since she has spent her entire liberal life on welfare, just
:
:
Nicole Dawn Maschke
--
Greetings....
- Another example of the cruelty of the chistian republicans...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Streetkid-L: Promoting awareness of the plight of street children
and other children at risk worldwide. Your participation is welcome.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
________________________________________________________________________
For Immediate Release August 3, 1998
President Clinton and Vice President Gore
Supporting Investments in the Young People of America
August 3, 1998
Congress Retreats from Support for Education and Youth. Republicans in
the House of Representatives are advancing a bill that denies
educational and training opportunities to the young people of America.
The House Labor-HHS-Education Appropriations bill, which will soon be
put to a vote, cuts $3.3 billion from the President's education and
training priorities.
The House Republican Bill:
Eliminates the $871 million Summer Jobs program. Up to 530,000
disadvantaged young people would be denied the opportunity to gain
skills and valuable work experience over the summer months.
Studies show that the Summer Jobs initiative works. A 1995 report
concluded that more than three out of four young people enrolled
in the program would have been jobless without it, especially
14-15 year-olds.
Retreats from the nation's commitment to raise academic standards.
President Clinton has proposed to help states, local communities
and schools raise academic standards through the development of
voluntary national tests in the basic skills and through the Goals
2000 program. The House bill denies 6,000 schools nationwide
funds to help students reach high standards and would halt
development of voluntary national tests in fourth grade reading
and eighth grade math.
Short-changes Head Start. Denies slots to up to 25,000
low-income children compared to President Clinton's budget.
Eliminates funds for reading tutors. The House bill eliminates
$260 million for the America Reads Challenge, denying funding to
schools and communities to improve reading programs and provide
tutors.
Denies funds for after-school programs. The House bill reduces
the President's request for the 21st Century Community Learning
Centers program by $140 million, denying approximately 425,000
school-age children participation in before- and after-school
programs.
Denies disadvantaged students help in the basic skills. The
House bill denies funds to help an additional 520,000
educationally disadvantaged students master the basic skills, by
cutting the President's request for Title 1 by almost $400
million.
Slows progress in putting computers in the classroom. The House
bill denies funding to 400 school districts nationwide to provide
students and teachers with access to computers and denies
specialized technology training to a large number of new teachers
first entering the classroom.
Eliminates funding to prepare disadvantaged children for college.
The House bill denies more than one million at-risk middle school
students (over five years) the mentoring and tutoring to raise
education expectations and eliminate barriers to college, by
denying $140 million for the High Hopes program.
Eliminates funding for middle school safety coordinators. The
House bill denies 6,500 middle schools throughout the nation with
$50 million that would provide full-time Safe and Drug-Free
Schools Coordinators.
Denies funding for key child care initiatives. The House bill
denies $180 million in child care funding that we proposed to
improve and enforce health and safety standards.
Eliminates Low-Income Home Energy Assistance (LIHEAP). Under
President Clinton's budget, more than four million low-income
families receive help to pay for heating costs in the winter or to
stay cool in the summer. Under the Republican plan, they won't
get a penny.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Streetkid-L Resource Page: http://www.jbu.edu/business/sk.html
Listowner: jwal...@acc.jbu.edu, John Brown University
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You know... these christians are some of the most violent and hateful people
in the world...
Remember.....
Be Safe ...
Nicole (dawn) Maschke
The Phoenix: http://home.earthlink.net/~jmwindgate/phoenix.html
Political Mailing List: jmwin...@earthlink.net
Land Mail: P.O. Box 602696, Cleveland, Ohio 44102
ICQ: soft dawn/439028
Online Hours: 0900 EDT - 1600 EDT
byoung wrote in message <35C8D9...@pacifier.com>...
:Matthew N. Sharp wrote:
:>
:> In article <one of many>, "Nicole Dawn Maschke"
<jmwin...@earthlink.net>
:> wrote:
:>
:> > --
:> > Greetings...
:> >
:> > - What a good example of hate... I state facts and this republican jerk
then
:> > is not able to do anything other than complain... lmao...
:>
:> The second sentence in this paragraph serves as a pretty
:> functional definition of "hate".
:
:Do you have an actual "functional" definition of "hate" by which to
:compare?
:
:> >
:> > Religion is just an idiot's way of telling people what to believe in
when
:> > they are too stupid to figure it out on their own.... Religion is for
people
:> > who are afraid of hell.... Spirituality is for those who have been
there...
:>
:> The first two sentences in this paragraph are prime examples
Stan
>
> : Do you know anything about Sweden, France, Australia, Canada, the former
> : Soviet Union, Cuba or England where nuts like you actually create socialist
> : policy and put it into effect? Do you know what living hellholes these
> : countries are?
Sweden, France, Australia, and Canada are "living hellholes"? That would
come as quite a surprise to the people actually living in those countries,
especially considering that they choose their own doctors and pay far less
for care than in the US. I'm sure they are amazed by our weird schemes to
maintain the dominance of insurance companies, who interfere in the
patient/doctor relationship in the US solely for their own profit.
When it comes to health insurance, socialism wins every time.
Matthew N. Sharp
> Matthew N. Sharp wrote:
> >
> > In article <one of many>, "Nicole Dawn Maschke" <jmwin...@earthlink.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > --
> > > Greetings...
> > >
> > > - What a good example of hate... I state facts and this republican
jerk then
> > > is not able to do anything other than complain... lmao...
> >
> > The second sentence in this paragraph serves as a pretty
> > functional definition of "hate".
>
> Do you have an actual "functional" definition of "hate" by which to
> compare?
When someone resorts to using subjective terms like 'jerk',
it indicates to me that the person feels hatred towards the
subject in question. As well, when an individual uses a term
like 'jerk' to describe an entire socio-political group, it indicates
hatred towards that group. The use of strong negative
language is a signifier of strong negative emotions. This is
basic.
Name calling, for the most part (and certainly there are
exceptions) indicates hatred and anger. Personally, I don't
care who hates who, but that does not mean that I cannot
recognize hatred and anger when they present themselves.
>
> > >
> > > Religion is just an idiot's way of telling people what to believe in when
> > > they are too stupid to figure it out on their own.... Religion is
for people
> > > who are afraid of hell.... Spirituality is for those who have been
there...
> >
> > The first two sentences in this paragraph are prime examples
> > of "hate".
>
> I'm not sure to which sentence you refer. No periods, only "...."
Nicole's poor punctuation skills forced me to assume that
the series of periods were in fact markers between sentences.
Whether or not they are is not entirely relevent; for analysis
sake they were interpreted as such.
> Anyway, the modern manifestation of religion involves "beliefs" which
> are the antithesis of true religion. Religion comes from the heart,
> soul, and mind, not the Bible or the Pope. The latter are inherently
> unreliable and certainly impersonal. I'd just as soon work it out in my
> own mind as the situation requires than accept "religious dogma", a
> contradiction in terms imho. So-called "religion" is people writing
> down on paper what was never intended to be recorded or *taught* per se,
> but rather ackowledged as existing in others and recognized as being
> easily accessible via normal mental, physical, or spiritual excercise.
First, I assume that you mean 'organized religion' in your use
of the phrase 'modern manufestation of religion.' I would argue,
however, that 'religion' comes from a variety of sources, and one
cannot eliminate the historical perspective of how common
ideas came into being.
Indeed, if an individual wishes their 'religion' to be beneficial in their
lives,
it is certainly in their best interest to attach themselves emotionally to
that religion (to have it 'come from the heart, soul and mind'), but I
would think that having gained familiarity with the texts associated with
the religion would be in the best interest of the individual as well.
This is based on the concept of additive development, in which the
individual reads, listens, or otherwise takes information in about a
subject in addition to thinking autonomously about it in order to build
a stronger concept. The alternative is to "start from scratch", which
is a far more tedious undertaking, and one from which less impressive
results eminate. Imagine, for instance, if car companies had to come
up with basic innovations every time they designed a car; they would
have to invent a basic mobility method (the wheel), a basic energy-
providing method (the engine), and every other element of what we
call an automobile. We, instead, build on the achievements of our
predecessors, which makes life easier, and at the same time,
more complex.
>
> When religion must be taught it is useless and merely a "going through
> the motions" (procedural-style church) for those who haven't a clue how
> to tap into their own spirituality. Those who must "believe" are taking
> the wrong approach. Typically those who "believe" can only find
> themselves by criticizing those around them because they are essentially
> lost souls. True Christians are tolerant; modern Christians are not
> tolerant and therefore not true Christians. True Christians didn't use
> violence, but rather were the ones being acted upon with violence; the
> case is opposite today. Politics is the driving force behind modern
> "religion", which is essentially a bunch of freaks who don't know what
> their talking about pretending like they do. And even when a Christian
> is tolerant, they often do so in a condescending manner, claiming that
> they're helping you, like a savior, like Mother Theresa or other
> missionaries.
I have no intention of defending the copious examples of members
of various religions who misbehave. Never have. I'll even agree that
it's absolutely true. The point of my initial post on this subject is that
it is one thing to be aware that people do things that you don't agree
with. It is entirely another to let that fact confuse you, enrage you,
and to subsequently spend your waking hours attacking the individuals
with whom you have a problem with name-calling, hate-accusations,
and persecution accusations. This is indicative of a psychological
inability to deal with reality in a non-self-destructive manner. When
broad generalizations are met with broad generalizations, nothing
is accomplished. When an argument consists of two factions calling
each other names, both are wasting their time. And when this argument
takes place in USENET, they're wasting everyone else's time, and money,
which is to be avoided.
(btw: "a bunch of freaks who don't know what their [sic] talking about
pretending like they do" is a pretty good summary of USENET, as well,
and, for that matter, society as a whole.)
>
> Religion is the opiate for the masses. When you believe, your mind
> stops functioning. Religious people aren't necessarily spiritual
> people.
>
Bad religion is _an_ opiate for the masses. So is pop-psychology.
So is alcohol. So is opium. All of these things may possibly have
some positive function, as well, depending on use.
> Jesus used cannabis as a sacrement and for his healing "miracles".
> Jesus was just a man, not the one and only Son of God, but rather one of
> many. We are all God's children. There was no immaculate conception
> and if you believe that it says much about you psychologically. Namely
> that you are sheep, following "the Word" simply because it's convenient
> and painless and you don't have to explore your own life experiences,
> but rather you can simply wait for the next coming of "The Savior".
First, I am curious to see your source for the first sentence.
Second, anyone with knowledge about the pre-Christ [Judaic] definition of
the term "Messiah" knows that immaculate conception was not
a prerequisite for fulfillment of the role. The position was one of
political power more than religious power. By the initial definition
of that term, Jesus matched the criterion, as teacher and reformer.
The term loses (and gains) some things in the translation(s).
>
> > The last is an example of condescension, which is
> > somewhat similar to hate. The three of them combined form
> > a rather unnerving picture of you psychologically.
>
> Condescension isn't similar to hate, though it certainly offends more
> than hate. Hate is eventually destructive. At least for me,
> condescension is a tool for making people feel dumb; which isn't harmful
> in and of itself except to the ego, but it can be fixed which is my
> intent, to demonstrate that not all think the same. On the otherhand,
> if the person on the receiving end is hyper-sensitive, s/he may hate me
> because someone told them once that it was bad to be dumb or a sheep.
> Or is this what you meant by "functional definition of hate"?
Condescension, if described as a mathematical set, would certainly intersect
with the set of hate. It indicates (commonly) a certain disregard for your
communicant, possibly a lack of respect, and possibly outright hatred. Neither
is a subset of the other, but there are some common points, which, imho
makes them 'similar.'
>
> ....not to defend the original poster....
I had figured this out, as it seemed more like
a discussion than a series of accusations and displays
of misplaced aggression.
Cheers,
matthew n. sharp
-
mns...@nonsequitur.net-link.net [remove the nonsequitur to respond via email]
Matthew N. Sharp
<jmwin...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> --
> Greetings....
[internet news report deleted for brevity]
>
> Remember.....
>
> The christians in the United States have never allowed a Black,
> Hispanic, Jew, Muslim, American Indian, Asian, Woman or Gay to
> serve as the President of the United States. The christians have
> only allowed WHITE CHRISTIAN MALES to serve as President.
> That's the Christian brand of freedom....
>
> Freedom of religion in the United States means having a male
> white christian president, christian laws, christian holidays,
> christian judges, christian ethics, christian television,
> christian calendars, christian morals, christian values and
> christian lives forced on the entire population, regardless of
> their religion ... Christians have killed, in the name of jesus,
> Pagans, Jews and American Indians for refusing to convert to
> their faith. Christians have bought and sold Blacks as property,
> in the name of jesus, and raped the black women, and sold their
> children, in the name of jesus. Christians have burned alive,
> men, women and children in Salem, Massachusetts, in the name of
> jesus. Now the christians are telling lies about gays and trying
> to take away gay people's rights, as free American Citizens in
> the United States. And when these christians are done with us
> ... they will come after YOU...
>
> "Give me Liberty of Give Me Death!"
> Patrick Henry
>
So, let me get this right; form is as follows -
#define PunctuationsWithPeriods == "..."
[response == newsPosting(unrelated) +
nonsensicalDiatribe(redundant,subjective,replace
PunctuationWithPeriods)]...
+ [long .sig file]
+ [original posting]
/* I will be eliminating this portion of the text, for brevity, of
course */
I think I can do this...
BEGIN:NicoleDawnMaschkeSim.h/output.txt---------------
[Raytheon to divest some assets]
http://my.excite.com/news/u/980805/11/tech-science-raytheon
LEXINGTON, Mass., Aug. 5 (UPI) Raytheon Co. is selling a
portion of its
second-generation ground-based Electro Optics (EO) assets, and
a portion of its
Focal Plane Array (FPA) business, to DRS Technologies Inc. for
an undisclosed
amount of cash.
The Ground EO business to be divested was formerly a part of
Hughes Electronics
unit Hughes Aircraft Co., and the FPA business to be divested
was formerly a part
of Texas Instruments Inc.
The company said the divestitures were part of a previous
anti-trust agreement
reached with the U.S. Departments of Justice and Defense
following Raytheon's
acquisition of Texas Instruments' defense business in July 1997
and its December
1997 merger with the defense business of Hughes.
The deal with DRS Technologies Inc., based in Parsippany, N.J.,
is subject to
government review and approval.
Greetings..........
Ememberray.....
Ethay istianschray inay ethay Uniteday Atesstay avehay evernay alloweday
aay Ackblay....
Ispanichay.... Ewjay.... Uslimmay.... Americanay Indianay.... Asianay....
Omanway oray Aygay otay
ervesay asay ethay Esidentpray ofay ethay Uniteday Atesstay. Ethay
istianschray avehay
onlyay alloweday ITEWHAY ISTIANCHRAY ALESMAY otay ervesay asay Esidentpray.
At'sthay ethay Istianchray andbray ofay eedomfray....
Eedomfray ofay eligionray inay ethay Uniteday Atesstay eansmay avinghay
aay alemay
itewhay istianchray esidentpray.... istianchray awslay.... istianchray
olidayshay....
istianchray udgesjay.... istianchray ethicsay.... istianchray elevisiontay....
istianchray alendarscay.... istianchray oralsmay.... istianchray aluesvay anday
istianchray iveslay orcedfay onay ethay entireay opulationpay....
egardlessray ofay
eirthay eligionray ... Istianschray avehay illedkay.... inay ethay amenay
ofay esusjay....
Aganspay.... Ewsjay anday Americanay Indiansay orfay efusingray otay
onvertcay otay
eirthay aithfay. Istianschray avehay oughtbay anday oldsay Acksblay asay
opertypray....
inay ethay amenay ofay esusjay.... anday apedray ethay ackblay omenway....
anday oldsay eirthay
ildrenchay.... inay ethay amenay ofay esusjay. Istianschray avehay
urnedbay aliveay....
enmay.... omenway anday ildrenchay inay Alemsay.... Assachusettsmay....
inay ethay amenay ofay
esusjay. Ownay ethay istianschray areay ellingtay ieslay aboutay aysgay
anday ingtryay
otay aketay awayay aygay eople'spay ightsray.... asay eefray Americanay
Itizenscay inay
ethay Uniteday Atesstay. Anday enwhay esethay istianschray areay oneday
ithway usay
... eythay illway omecay afteray OUYAY...
"Ivegay emay Ibertylay ofay Ivegay Emay Eathday!"
Atrickpay Enryhay
Ebay Afesay ...
END:NicoleDawnMaschkeSim.h/output.txt---------------
I understand now. It's another robot.
cl...@ans.com.au
ive...@utk.edu (Stan) wrote:
> > cl...@ans.com.au wrote:
> >
> > : Do you know anything about Sweden, France, Australia, Canada, the former
> > : Soviet Union, Cuba or England where nuts like you actually create
socialist
> > : policy and put it into effect? Do you know what living hellholes these
> > : countries are?
>
> come as quite a surprise to the people actually living in those countries,
> especially considering that they choose their own doctors and pay far less
> for care than in the US. I'm sure they are amazed by our weird schemes to
> maintain the dominance of insurance companies, who interfere in the
> patient/doctor relationship in the US solely for their own profit.
>
> When it comes to health insurance, socialism wins every time.
>
Yeh comrade! What this world needs is more disturbed freaks working as doctors
with uncontrollable eye twitches and a long history of killing patients on the
operating table.
What an unbelievable klown! Come visit Australia some time, sit outside the
hospital steps and listen to the screams of the damned from morning til night.
Public health care is premier baby-killing sport.
Our last socialist doctor began shrieking and yelling at thin air while my
wife and I were in his office - the next one we went to see was a woman
hating fag who told us he did not trust himself to treat females. The last
one prescribed antibiotics for all conditions irregardless, no matter what
the diagnosis. These creatures are not even human, they are abominations.
NOT ONE OF THESE FREAKISH MONSTROSITIES WOULD LAST ONE DAY IN A PRIVATIZED
HEALTH CARE SYSTEM. They'd be fired before noon and nobody would ever insure
them again.
I have a friend in Britain who has been trying to rid himself of golden staph
for the past ten years, the socialist prescription for all ills ... every
patient gets a free dose of antibiotic resistant bacteria at the door. They
can also cut off your penis and accidentally leave forceps inside your body
if you remember to ask before surgery ... assuming the Pakistani
anesthesiologist with the fake degree even knows how to get you out of your
coma. Of course, it is not like anybody will lose their job no matter how
many patients they kill.
The myth of public health care that "works" (impossible, anybody who
understands economics knows this cannot be) is like the myth of the noble
savage in the 19th century ... a piece of fantasy plucked out of thin air
swiftly dispelled by close examination.
cl...@ans.com.au
ive...@utk.edu (Stan) wrote:
> > cl...@ans.com.au wrote:
> Sweden, France, Australia, and Canada are "living hellholes"? That would
> come as quite a surprise to the people actually living in those countries,
> especially considering that they choose their own doctors and pay far less
> for care than in the US.
Yeah! Free stuff! free health care!
It is like when you were little and you used to dream about these big toy
stores you could walk into and everything was "free."
Stan, you're an adult now - and this isn't cute anymore, it is moronic.
NOTHING IS FREE IN LIFE. PEOPLE WHO OFFER THINGS FOR "FREE" ACTUALLY MEAN,
BEND OVER BETA MONKEY AND TAKE THIS ALPHA MALE PRIMATE DICK. GIVE ME ALL YOUR
MONEY.
It is amusing to see these little submissive primates who actually enjoy and
look forward to being sodomized by the ruling elite for their earnings. "Fuck
me harder! As long as I can get some free stuff out of it!"
Stan, you're mounted. Watch a Jane Goodall video - see that little ape
getting butt-bumped, then the big monkey climbs off him and takes his bananas
away with him? That's you. Except that little monkey doesn't like his
treatment, whereas you come away with a smile on your face and a big hole in
your pocket where your income used to be.
But wait - its all FREE.
I was just reading yesterday about these "killing fields" in a pediatric ward
in Britain where children were dying like flies and their bodies being chucked
out like garbage into the alley. Nobody in the hospital bothered to report the
incredibly high rate of child fatalities ... after all, the care is FREE and
what do you expect when you get what you pay for? No accountability, no market
discipline, no pressure to monitor performance ... just a mile-high stack of
dead babies who came in to get their teeth cleaned.
Socialism turns the Earth into a Hieronymous Bosch painting, except with
longer queues.
cl...@ans.com.au
g...@ripco.com (Gary L. Dare) wrote:
> cl...@ans.com.au wrote:
> England has a 5% unemployment rate without incarcerating nearly 1%
> of their population like the US does. It enjoys an "enterprise
> economy" that is the legacy of Margaret Thatcher. Canada has a
> balanced federal budget, and a pension setup more privatized than
> any Social Security reforms presented so far: imagine pension tax
> of 3% capped at $945 (versus 6.2%/$4240.80 for SS), and a $15,000
> annual tax-free allowance that you have five years to use up, all
> your own money in a self-directed account. No employer-fiddled
> 401K, no maybe-deductible IRA. Meanwhile, the US overtaxes SS
> to subsidize tax revenues; this year's $63 Billion surplus is
> a -$43 Billion deficit if Social Security trust fund loans are
> excluded. Total trust fund loans triple or quadruple official
> national debt (based on third party-held government bonds) and
> being loans, are supposed to be paid back when Social Security
> needs that money back after 2010 ...
>
> It seems that somebody is looking the other way when it comes
> to massive socialism in their own backyard ... )-;
Wrong answer. The U.S. has the greatest amount of freedom in the world.
Relatively. Considering the sick twisted madness of the primate brain inside
our skulls, this is pretty incredible since most people's entire pathetic and
neurotic existence revolves around dominating and crushing others through
either fascism, socialism, communism or government-protected capitalism.
As a libertarian, I believe people should only pay 10% in taxes (GST) to the
federal government and nothing else for any excuse just as the Founding
Fathers first indicated. Everything else should be user-pays.
Don't be a pitiful spoiled liberal wetboy and pretend any country in the
world is more free, more prosperous or better to live in than the United
States, especially not loafer France, Cuban Canada or Oceania England. We
can't compare ourselves with other countries, because however much better we
are than them we have to admit we have naked communist sabotage of our
original government system still left over as a remnant of Soviet subterfuge
during the past 40 years of the Cold War.
There is only one political party in the United States that deserves to show
it's face and it is the libertarian party. The other two mainstream parties
preach different forms of fascism but they should just stick to Paine and
Jefferson and quit trying to force their tiny overheated monkey brains to
think. Social engineering is the moron's indulgence after football and dope.
byoung
>
> In article <35C8D9...@pacifier.com>, byo...@pacifier.com wrote:
>
> > Matthew N. Sharp wrote:
> > Do you have an actual "functional" definition of "hate" by which to
> > compare?
>
> When someone resorts to using subjective terms like 'jerk',
> it indicates to me that the person feels hatred towards the
> subject in question. As well, when an individual uses a term
> like 'jerk' to describe an entire socio-political group, it indicates
> hatred towards that group. The use of strong negative
> language is a signifier of strong negative emotions. This is
> basic.
Christians are of a religion, not a socio-political group, right? I
mean, the concepts of tolerance, personal freedom, and trust and respect
for the individual on which this country was founded were Christian
beliefs, so the Christianity should already be in there in the laws; no
need for political activism by the organized religion.
> Name calling, for the most part (and certainly there are
> exceptions) indicates hatred and anger. Personally, I don't
> care who hates who, but that does not mean that I cannot
> recognize hatred and anger when they present themselves.
I don't know. I think hatred goes well beyond name-calling.
Name-calling certainly indicates frustration. Hatred is a complex
concept. Anger is easier to rationalize.
<snip>
> First, I assume that you mean 'organized religion' in your use
> of the phrase 'modern manufestation of religion.' I would argue,
> however, that 'religion' comes from a variety of sources, and one
> cannot eliminate the historical perspective of how common
> ideas came into being.
Yeah, I just dispute the necessity, usefulness, and motivations of
organizing the religion in the first place. The Roman Catholic Church
smashed alternative belief systems; it was about power. The danger I
see is that the organization becomes corrupt and we've trapped
ourselves.
> Indeed, if an individual wishes their 'religion' to be beneficial in their
> lives,
> it is certainly in their best interest to attach themselves emotionally to
> that religion (to have it 'come from the heart, soul and mind'), but I
> would think that having gained familiarity with the texts associated with
> the religion would be in the best interest of the individual as well.
I'd say they would be a benefit, but only after they have found
themselves first. That is, no one should expect the book to open their
eyes. Even if the Bible can open peoples' eyes, I think by starting
with it, and using it for that purpose drowns out the internal
uniqueness of the individual, making them a clone of sorts.
> This is based on the concept of additive development, in which the
> individual reads, listens, or otherwise takes information in about a
> subject in addition to thinking autonomously about it in order to build
> a stronger concept. The alternative is to "start from scratch", which
> is a far more tedious undertaking, and one from which less impressive
> results eminate.
"Less impressive"? C'mon, now! Who am I trying to impress? If people
like it they'll come voluntarily. If they don't, then to each his own.
No need for a light show and pyrotechnics.
> Imagine, for instance, if car companies had to come
> up with basic innovations every time they designed a car; they would
> have to invent a basic mobility method (the wheel), a basic energy-
> providing method (the engine), and every other element of what we
> call an automobile.
Automobiles are huge resource sinks. They take too much steel, too much
energy, and too much oil to manufacture. Then, of course, for the
consumer to "get their money's worth", they must consume still MORE oil.
> We, instead, build on the achievements of our
> predecessors, which makes life easier, and at the same time,
> more complex.
I don't know. I think religion is one of those things that anyone can
discover and know the whole truth even if no one else ever told them
about it before. In fact, I think even the concept of "God the Father"
is limiting when people are discovering themselves. I think the concept
of "God the Father" implies that there is an "individual", when my own
personal interpretation is that "God" is that *it* is intangible, more
like "Mother Nature". And I have to wonder if the Father-Son thing was
a move to create a submissive relationship between church and follower
for power and control while simultaneously convoluting the true
relationship between father and son.
> I have no intention of defending the copious examples of members
> of various religions who misbehave. Never have. I'll even agree that
> it's absolutely true. The point of my initial post on this subject is that
> it is one thing to be aware that people do things that you don't agree
> with. It is entirely another to let that fact confuse you, enrage you,
> and to subsequently spend your waking hours attacking the individuals
> with whom you have a problem with name-calling, hate-accusations,
> and persecution accusations. This is indicative of a psychological
> inability to deal with reality in a non-self-destructive manner. When
> broad generalizations are met with broad generalizations, nothing
> is accomplished. When an argument consists of two factions calling
> each other names, both are wasting their time. And when this argument
> takes place in USENET, they're wasting everyone else's time, and money,
> which is to be avoided.
My own personal frustration is that a believe separation of church and
state to be the safe way to go, to protect ourselves from misguided and
lazy individuals who not only want others to tell them what to do (the
church), but also want to pass on the imposition to those who are
supposedly "subservient" to them (the constituancy). But in America,
the elected officials are supposed to do as WE THE PEOPLE tell them, not
what the church tells them. This manifests itself in vice crimes like
prostitution and drug use. Supposedly its a crusade against immoral
behavior. Whenever a politician uses the word "moral" relating to
legislation, I raise an eyebrow. I believe the only moral value the
U.S. really NEEDS is that held within the Bill of Rights.
> (btw: "a bunch of freaks who don't know what their [sic] talking about
> pretending like they do" is a pretty good summary of USENET, as well,
> and, for that matter, society as a whole.)
Yeah, usenet is fun that way.
> > Religion is the opiate for the masses. When you believe, your mind
> > stops functioning. Religious people aren't necessarily spiritual
> > people.
> >
>
> Bad religion is _an_ opiate for the masses. So is pop-psychology.
> So is alcohol. So is opium. All of these things may possibly have
> some positive function, as well, depending on use.
I should say "organized" religion, or "too organized" religion, or
"church state" religion.
> > Jesus used cannabis as a sacrement and for his healing "miracles".
> > Jesus was just a man, not the one and only Son of God, but rather one of
> > many. We are all God's children. There was no immaculate conception
> > and if you believe that it says much about you psychologically. Namely
> > that you are sheep, following "the Word" simply because it's convenient
> > and painless and you don't have to explore your own life experiences,
> > but rather you can simply wait for the next coming of "The Savior".
>
> First, I am curious to see your source for the first sentence.
I saw it in a magazine. Guess what kind ;) It referred to translations
of some Coptic writings rediscovered back in the 30s (?) that were
hidden from the RCCh during it's crusades to purge evil from the land;
found in a buried cave. It said that the annointing oils were
cannabis. It even described how the use of the extracts (just like
medical mj today) could have "healed" skin disease, muscle disease, even
chronic menstruation. Very interesting. It was the winter '98 issue of
Cannabis Canada. The first page of the article has a painting of Jesus
with his hands to the sky and a gaze on his face as though he's "seen
the light". I don't think it's all that far-fetched, personally,
considering the period in human history. It also talks about how
"medicine men" and religious officials kept the secrets hidden so they
could be cool.
> Second, anyone with knowledge about the pre-Christ [Judaic] definition of
> the term "Messiah" knows that immaculate conception was not
> a prerequisite for fulfillment of the role. The position was one of
> political power more than religious power. By the initial definition
> of that term, Jesus matched the criterion, as teacher and reformer.
> The term loses (and gains) some things in the translation(s).
Yes, this article also said that a "Christ" was anyone who was annointed
with the cannabis oil, and that "Christian" was plural for Christ rather
than the descriptor as it is used today. That is, I am a Christ not a
Christian. There are all sorts of prophets, some free us from slavery.
I don't know why Jesus was so special to have been conceived
immaculately. I'm offended at the idea that you and I are not also true
Sons of God, though as I said, really I'm just a product of Nature. Our
brains are all similar. We all learn in a similar, but unique fashion.
It's all good.
> Condescension, if described as a mathematical set, would certainly intersect
> with the set of hate. It indicates (commonly) a certain disregard for your
> communicant, possibly a lack of respect, and possibly outright hatred. Neither
> is a subset of the other, but there are some common points, which, imho
> makes them 'similar.'
Ok then. Could it also be a defense mechanism?
> > ....not to defend the original poster....
>
> I had figured this out, as it seemed more like
> a discussion than a series of accusations and displays
> of misplaced aggression.
I agree. We are all victims of circumstance.
Nicole Dawn Maschke
--
Greetings....
- Such a good example of christian hate... You know... after 2000 years
those of us who have had the brains to not follow your hateful cult ... are
getting to the point where we really wish all you christians would just
leave already...
lmao...
Remember.....
The christians in the United States have never allowed a Black,
Hispanic, Jew, Muslim, American Indian, Asian, Woman or Gay to
serve as the President of the United States. The christians have
only allowed WHITE CHRISTIAN MALES to serve as President.
That's the Christian brand of freedom....
Freedom of religion in the United States means having a male
white christian president, christian laws, christian holidays,
christian judges, christian ethics, christian television,
christian calendars, christian morals, christian values and
christian lives forced on the entire population, regardless of
their religion ... Christians have killed, in the name of jesus,
Pagans, Jews and American Indians for refusing to convert to
their faith. Christians have bought and sold Blacks as property,
in the name of jesus, and raped the black women, and sold their
children, in the name of jesus. Christians have burned alive,
men, women and children in Salem, Massachusetts, in the name of
jesus. Now the christians are telling lies about gays and trying
to take away gay people's rights, as free American Citizens in
the United States. And when these christians are done with us
... they will come after YOU...
"Give me Liberty of Give Me Death!"
Patrick Henry
Be Safe ...
Nicole (dawn) Maschke
The Phoenix: http://home.earthlink.net/~jmwindgate/phoenix.html
Political Mailing List: jmwin...@earthlink.net
Land Mail: P.O. Box 602696, Cleveland, Ohio 44102
ICQ: soft dawn/439028
Online Hours: 0900 EDT - 1600 EDT
cl...@ans.com.au wrote in message <6qclrf$ro2$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
:In article <6qbta2$9th$1...@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
: "Nicole Dawn Maschke" <jmwin...@earthlink.net> wrote:
:>
:> Freedom of religion in the United States means having a male
:> white christian president, christian laws, christian holidays,
:> christian judges, christian ethics, christian television,
:> christian calendars, christian morals, christian values and
:> christian lives forced on the entire population, regardless of
:> their religion ... Christians have killed, in the name of jesus,
:> Pagans, Jews and American Indians for refusing to convert to
:> their faith. Christians have bought and sold Blacks as property,
:> in the name of jesus, and raped the black women, and sold their
:> children, in the name of jesus. Christians have burned alive,
:> men, women and children in Salem, Massachusetts, in the name of
:> jesus. Now the christians are telling lies about gays and trying
:> to take away gay people's rights, as free American Citizens in
:> the United States. And when these christians are done with us
:> ... they will come after YOU...
:>
:> "Give me Liberty of Give Me Death!"
:> Patrick Henry
:
:It is because Christian culture and Western Culture are so superior to any
:culture on Earth that all other cultures can really do is whine, snivel and
:gripe out of raw envy ... immediately afterwards they can eat sh*t and die.
:
:"Western Culture this ... Western Culture that ..." You know you are just a
:sour grapes social washout trying to sound morally superior to the culture
:that cracked the genetic code of existence, put a man on the moon and split
:the atom.
:
:Why not crawl off into your mud hut in your imaginary blessed "primitive"
:state of existence, get yourself a classic clidorectomy like non-christian
:cultures impose on women, put on your veil and shut up like a good piece of
:property? Outside of Christian culture, women get bitch-slapped and shoved
:around like domestic animals. If they open their mouth about their rights
:they get beheaded. Maybe the husband then has to give her family a chicken
in
:exchange for her life. That is your precious non-christian culture for you!
:Get off it, you phoney!
:
:Christian culture has extended the notion of universal human rights more
than
:any other culture in the history of civilization ... extending the blanket
of
:egalitarian legal protection to women, children, gays, blacks and even
:transexuals.
:
:What do we get for it?
:
:Some squatter no-hoper losers pushing their noses up and pretending they
are
:being oppressed by being forced to sponge off welfare and eat at Burger
King.
:
:Go back to your basket-weaving and water-toting slavery, if you like it so
:much! We don't want to "OPPRESS" you any more! Go to the nearest White
:Slavery Ring, tell'em you want to spend 24 hours a day giving blowjobs to
oil
:sheiks, they'll have you on the next boat to the Middle East! Please don't
:stick around suffering under evil Christian Culture anymore - we don't want
:you!
Michael Beck
<jmwin...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>--
>Greetings....
>
>- You both are truly deluded. I worked for 20 years, from the time I was 16
>to the time I was 39.... Before I was crippled from being raped.
What a load! You just found a convenient excuse to apply for
disability. With the amount you post, you would work as a secretary
or do some type of real work.
>So...
>NO... I did not spend my entire life on welfare. If you bothered to read my
>bio on my web site you would find that I came from a very wealthy family,
>that I was adopted into, before I turned my back on their shallow values and
>the money... and struck out on my own to make my own way.
Yeah. Being a parasite and a leech who advocates hate speech.
Come to think of it... that rhymes.
Windgate, the hate speech leech!
>
>These attacks against me are just the christians way to trying to spread
>hate against me, because they are unable to make me look bad... lmao... How
>stupid...
Christians? More hate speech from the leech!
>
>
>Remember.....
>
>The christians in the United States have never allowed a Black,
>Hispanic, Jew, Muslim, American Indian, Asian, Woman or Gay to
snipping the hate speech.
Linda & Mike Shevchuk
Nicole Dawn Maschke wrote in message
<6qbsj1$9g4$1...@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
>
>
>--
>Greetings....
>
>- Get real... religion is a way for humans to give up on themselves and to
>allow others to dictate what they should believe in, due to the fact that
>most humans are too stupid, selfis, and braindead to be able to comprise a
>definition of reality on their own... lmao...
>
>
>
>
>The christians in the United States have never allowed a Black,
>Hispanic, Jew, Muslim, American Indian, Asian, Woman or Gay to
>only allowed WHITE CHRISTIAN MALES to serve as President.
>That's the Christian brand of freedom....
>
>Freedom of religion in the United States means having a male
>white christian president, christian laws, christian holidays,
>christian judges, christian ethics, christian television,
>christian calendars, christian morals, christian values and
>christian lives forced on the entire population, regardless of
>their religion ... Christians have killed, in the name of jesus,
>Pagans, Jews and American Indians for refusing to convert to
>their faith. Christians have bought and sold Blacks as property,
>in the name of jesus, and raped the black women, and sold their
>children, in the name of jesus. Christians have burned alive,
>men, women and children in Salem, Massachusetts, in the name of
>jesus. Now the christians are telling lies about gays and trying
>to take away gay people's rights, as free American Citizens in
>the United States. And when these christians are done with us
>... they will come after YOU...
>
>"Give me Liberty of Give Me Death!"
> Patrick Henry
>
>Be Safe ...
>
>Nicole (dawn) Maschke
>Political Mailing List: jmwin...@earthlink.net
>ICQ: soft dawn/439028
>Online Hours: 0900 EDT - 1600 EDT
>
>
>
>
phls...@flash.net
Matthew N. Sharp wrote:
> However, when the government gives money to the
> Chrysler corporation, the Chrysler corporation stays in
> business, grows to be more productive and profitable,
> retains its employees,
How about relocates its plants outside the United States so they don't have to
pay wages that American workers deserve
phls...@flash.net
Stan wrote:
> > cl...@ans.com.au wrote:
> >
> > : Do you know anything about Sweden, France, Australia, Canada, the former
> > : Soviet Union, Cuba or England where nuts like you actually create socialist
> > : policy and put it into effect? Do you know what living hellholes these
> > : countries are?
>
> Sweden, France, Australia, and Canada are "living hellholes"? That would
> come as quite a surprise to the people actually living in those countries,
> especially considering that they choose their own doctors and pay far less
> for care than in the US. I'm sure they are amazed by our weird schemes to
> maintain the dominance of insurance companies, who interfere in the
> patient/doctor relationship in the US solely for their own profit.
>
> When it comes to health insurance, socialism wins every time.
>
> --Stan
>
> If we let HMOs run the post office, 43 million Americans wouldn't get any mail.
Stan, these people haven't traveled. I have seen these so-called socialist
countries and they work just fine. Sweden has a great standard of living as does
Canada. And less homeless.
phls...@flash.net
cl...@ans.com.au wrote:
> In article <6qbfit$4an$1...@gail.ripco.com>,
> g...@ripco.com (Gary L. Dare) wrote:
> > cl...@ans.com.au wrote:
>
> > England has a 5% unemployment rate without incarcerating nearly 1%
> > of their population like the US does. It enjoys an "enterprise
> > economy" that is the legacy of Margaret Thatcher. Canada has a
> > balanced federal budget, and a pension setup more privatized than
> > any Social Security reforms presented so far: imagine pension tax
> > of 3% capped at $945 (versus 6.2%/$4240.80 for SS), and a $15,000
> > annual tax-free allowance that you have five years to use up, all
> > your own money in a self-directed account. No employer-fiddled
> > 401K, no maybe-deductible IRA. Meanwhile, the US overtaxes SS
> > to subsidize tax revenues; this year's $63 Billion surplus is
> > a -$43 Billion deficit if Social Security trust fund loans are
> > excluded. Total trust fund loans triple or quadruple official
> > national debt (based on third party-held government bonds) and
> > being loans, are supposed to be paid back when Social Security
> > needs that money back after 2010 ...
> >
> > It seems that somebody is looking the other way when it comes
> > to massive socialism in their own backyard ... )-;
>
> Wrong answer. The U.S. has the greatest amount of freedom in the world.
Give me a friggin break. You can go to jail for 93 years for growning pot in
your backyard for your personal use in the good ole free usa. In Holland, they
would not care one whit.
In Holland, you can buy adult literature or visit a lady of the evening or do
anything that a free human being should be allowed to do.
And therre are no dry counties in Holland.
Brent
> Give me a friggin break. You can go to jail for 93 years for growning
pot in
> your backyard for your personal use in the good ole free usa. In
Holland, they
> would not care one whit.
>
> In Holland, you can buy adult literature or visit a lady of the evening
or do
> anything that a free human being should be allowed to do.
>
> And therre are no dry counties in Holland.
>
>
don't
you go there for good if its sooo great? I feel so unfortunate to be
missing out on the
experience of being surrounded by drug addicts and whores. That must be
what its like
living in the White House.
Gary L. Dare
: NOT ONE OF THESE FREAKISH MONSTROSITIES WOULD LAST ONE DAY IN A PRIVATIZED
: HEALTH CARE SYSTEM. They'd be fired before noon and nobody would ever insure
: them again.
They'd do great in an American HMO since they wouldn't be
prescribing much expensive treatment! (-; (-; (-;
: I have a friend in Britain who has been trying to rid himself of golden
: staph for the past ten years, the socialist prescription for all ills ...
Is your friend unaware that he can buy alternative private health
insurance in Britain? They even have Net specials advertised on
newspaper web sites for The Independent and the Daily Telegraph.
More likely, YOU didn't know better before spinning fabrications.
gld
Michael Beck
Wages that they "deserve"?
How is that level calculated?
Does it have anything to do with the amount of revenue that the worker
generates for the company?
What happens when labor charges more than the revenue that they
generate? comprende? si?
Michael Beck
snip
> Stan, these people haven't traveled. I have seen these so-called socialist
>countries and they work just fine. Sweden has a great standard of living as does
>Canada. And less homeless.
What do you think of the 70%+ tax rate in the scandinavian countries?
Canada? They are basically in a recession.
Michael Beck
snip
>> Wrong answer. The U.S. has the greatest amount of freedom in the world.
>
>Give me a friggin break. You can go to jail for 93 years for growning pot in
>your backyard for your personal use in the good ole free usa. In Holland, they
>would not care one whit.
>
>In Holland, you can buy adult literature or visit a lady of the evening or do
>anything that a free human being should be allowed to do.
>
>And therre are no dry counties in Holland.
Why don't you move to the Netherlands then?
You can get stoned and read girlie mags before visiting a prostitute
every day. After that, you can drink yourself blind and fall down a
famous golfer's steps. What a life! Are you Bill Clinton's long lost
brother or something?
Gary L. Dare
: That would explain why Holland doesn't have much impact on the world.
Never heard of Philips nor Shell? (-;
Then there is Polygram, but the Canadian Seagram's is buying it.
Seriously, libertarians and some Republicans should take heart
with the Netherlands since it is both socially liberal and
fiscally conservative, with a lower annual % deficit than the
US (after you take the Social Security trust fund loans off-
budget). It is one of the three hottest EU economies because
it is one of the three freest EU economies ...
Gary L. Dare
: What do you think of the 70%+ tax rate in the scandinavian countries?
Only for somebody who isn't taking full advantage of tax shelters.
The US had 90% tax brackets until Nixon's tax reform ...
: Canada? They are basically in a recession.
That's because 12% of Canada's economy relies on natural
resource exports or investments. Lost customers in Asia
and devalued resource holdings in Asia ... Canada has a
balanced federal budget without borrowing from public
pensions like the US does with Social Security trust
fund loans, lower capital gains taxes (7% vs. 20% US),
no death taxes, highly privatized retirement system ...
stuff that Mr. Gingrich wants for the US ...
cl...@ans.com.au
"Nicole Dawn Maschke" <jmwin...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> - Such a good example of christian hate... You know... after 2000 years
> those of us who have had the brains to not follow your hateful cult ... are
> getting to the point where we really wish all you christians would just
> leave already...
>
Assumed I was a Republican - wrong.
Assumed I was a Christian - wrong answer.
I don't know what "we" you are talking about, but I would guess it is pretty
much a group containing one member, Nicole.
Since the U.S. was founded and built on the precepts of Western Culture and
Judeo-Christian civilization and values ... is it really me that should be
leaving? Or you?
With all the countries to choose from in the world that practice antithetical
value systems, I can't understand why you would choose to continue to exist
under the miserable yoke of Western Civilization and Christian culture and
have to suffer with cable TV, ATMs, temperature-controlled central air,
microwave food and all the other blandishments of our evil culture ...
especially when you could have a leprosy sore growing on your eyelid and be
picking through cowdung for edible seeds with your ribs showing - like in all
those great alternative cultures.
Be sure to take your camouflage outfit and your machine gun plus water
purification tablets, you'll need'em. Non-Western civilizations are a real
barrel of monkeys; I'm not sure what part is the most fun ... trying to
cauterize gaping exit wounds with a rusty hot steel rod or the excitement and
thrills of the final stages of cholera. If these don't grab you, try my
favorite - public beheadings and random retaliation explosions. And don't
forget about the sensitive spiritual nature of non-christian cultures, things
like animal sacrifice and cannibalism - and legally protected slavery!!
What? Still here? Surprise!
Nicole, you are a M A S S I V E fake and a phoney.
M A S S I V E.
You make Shirley Maclaine look like a level headed, down to earth
conservative.
Michael Beck
snip
>
>Nicole, you are a M A S S I V E fake and a phoney.
>
>M A S S I V E.
>
Matthew N. Sharp
> Matthew N. Sharp wrote:
> >
> > In article <35C8D9...@pacifier.com>, byo...@pacifier.com wrote:
> >
> > > Matthew N. Sharp wrote:
>
> > > Do you have an actual "functional" definition of "hate" by which to
> > > compare?
> >
> > When someone resorts to using subjective terms like 'jerk',
> > it indicates to me that the person feels hatred towards the
> > subject in question. As well, when an individual uses a term
> > like 'jerk' to describe an entire socio-political group, it indicates
> > hatred towards that group. The use of strong negative
> > language is a signifier of strong negative emotions. This is
> > basic.
>
> Christians are of a religion, not a socio-political group, right? I
> mean, the concepts of tolerance, personal freedom, and trust and respect
> for the individual on which this country was founded were Christian
> beliefs, so the Christianity should already be in there in the laws; no
> need for political activism by the organized religion.
I would say that Christians are of varied religions and
socio-political groups. It's not possible to lump them
into one. And, actually, the individuals who founded
this country shared a Judeo-Christian background, but
also shared a common sociopolitical background (F&AM)
with the very British generals they fought against.
(It is, in fact, arguable that they didn't really 'fight'
each other nearly to the degree that the king would
have wished for, as their common groups held high
the concept of a secular state, thus making the incentive
for the Brits to win the war almost nil, but I digress)
Indeed, there are fundamental Christian ethos embedded
within our legislation; and while the participation of organized
religion (by your estimate, and mine) isn't really
necessary, I cannot realistically expect people to
accept my definitions of what is or is not necessary.
>
> > Name calling, for the most part (and certainly there are
> > exceptions) indicates hatred and anger. Personally, I don't
> > care who hates who, but that does not mean that I cannot
> > recognize hatred and anger when they present themselves.
>
> I don't know. I think hatred goes well beyond name-calling.
> Name-calling certainly indicates frustration. Hatred is a complex
> concept. Anger is easier to rationalize.
>
I would not say that hatred is the same thing as name
calling, but name calling is a frequent device of hatred.
And, quite honestly, probably one of the less morally
offensive devices thereof.
> <snip>
>
> > First, I assume that you mean 'organized religion' in your use
> > of the phrase 'modern manufestation of religion.' I would argue,
> > however, that 'religion' comes from a variety of sources, and one
> > cannot eliminate the historical perspective of how common
> > ideas came into being.
>
> Yeah, I just dispute the necessity, usefulness, and motivations of
> organizing the religion in the first place. The Roman Catholic Church
> smashed alternative belief systems; it was about power. The danger I
> see is that the organization becomes corrupt and we've trapped
> ourselves.
I would say that is the case for _any_ group of human
beings, be that religious or other. I think history holds
this to be true.
>
> > Indeed, if an individual wishes their 'religion' to be beneficial in their
> > lives,
> > it is certainly in their best interest to attach themselves emotionally to
> > that religion (to have it 'come from the heart, soul and mind'), but I
> > would think that having gained familiarity with the texts associated with
> > the religion would be in the best interest of the individual as well.
>
> I'd say they would be a benefit, but only after they have found
> themselves first. That is, no one should expect the book to open their
> eyes. Even if the Bible can open peoples' eyes, I think by starting
> with it, and using it for that purpose drowns out the internal
> uniqueness of the individual, making them a clone of sorts.
I'm a big fan of textual intake. Information, in my view,
cannot be good or bad. It is the application of information
through behavior that possesses moral weight. So I would
say that, if one is interested in religion, or Christianity in
particular, it is in their best interest to gather as much information
about that subject as possible in an attempt to formulate well-
informed views. The emotional aspect should guide them through
what they agree with and don't agree with, but they should
read both.
However, this is my -personal- view. If others gain information
in a different manner, then so be it. Mine is taken from my
own learning process, which consists of gathering data,
processing the data, and coming to conclusions. It does not
preclude the use of my instincts, but does require that I look
outside myself for additional data.
>
> > This is based on the concept of additive development, in which the
> > individual reads, listens, or otherwise takes information in about a
> > subject in addition to thinking autonomously about it in order to build
> > a stronger concept. The alternative is to "start from scratch", which
> > is a far more tedious undertaking, and one from which less impressive
> > results eminate.
>
> "Less impressive"? C'mon, now! Who am I trying to impress? If people
> like it they'll come voluntarily. If they don't, then to each his own.
> No need for a light show and pyrotechnics.
>
When I say "less impressive", I mean specifically "inferior
and underdeveloped." It's all well and good to find a
comfortable place, but it is in one's best interest to constantly
expand mentally and emotionally.
> > Imagine, for instance, if car companies had to come
> > up with basic innovations every time they designed a car; they would
> > have to invent a basic mobility method (the wheel), a basic energy-
> > providing method (the engine), and every other element of what we
> > call an automobile.
>
> Automobiles are huge resource sinks. They take too much steel, too much
> energy, and too much oil to manufacture. Then, of course, for the
> consumer to "get their money's worth", they must consume still MORE oil.
That isn't my point, but you know that. Choose from
any number of possible other examples in which we
build upon the achievements of previous people.
>
> > We, instead, build on the achievements of our
> > predecessors, which makes life easier, and at the same time,
> > more complex.
>
> I don't know. I think religion is one of those things that anyone can
> discover and know the whole truth even if no one else ever told them
> about it before. In fact, I think even the concept of "God the Father"
> is limiting when people are discovering themselves. I think the concept
> of "God the Father" implies that there is an "individual", when my own
> personal interpretation is that "God" is that *it* is intangible, more
> like "Mother Nature". And I have to wonder if the Father-Son thing was
> a move to create a submissive relationship between church and follower
> for power and control while simultaneously convoluting the true
> relationship between father and son.
I will agree that anyone can discover religion, but totally disagree
that we are capable of knowing the "whole truth". I'd say that
a good portion of "standardized religion" (ie: Father-Son construct,
etc) relies on the simplification of complex ideas so that the mass
population can easily adopt the concepts. That doesn't mean
that the concepts themselves are simple, or don't carry subtextual
data. The interpretation of these ideas by organizations for their
constituants is where the concepts like submission to the church
structure (dogma) comes into play.
I agree with most of this. The only difference I have is with the
validity of the US Constitution, of which there are a few aspects
I disagree with. That's completely a personal-preference thing,
though. I would have liked to see a more constrictive structure
towards the creation of unnecessary legislation.
<snip>
> > > Jesus used cannabis as a sacrement and for his healing "miracles".
> > > Jesus was just a man, not the one and only Son of God, but rather one of
> > > many. We are all God's children. There was no immaculate conception
> > > and if you believe that it says much about you psychologically. Namely
> > > that you are sheep, following "the Word" simply because it's convenient
> > > and painless and you don't have to explore your own life experiences,
> > > but rather you can simply wait for the next coming of "The Savior".
> >
> > First, I am curious to see your source for the first sentence.
>
> I saw it in a magazine. Guess what kind ;) It referred to translations
> of some Coptic writings rediscovered back in the 30s (?) that were
> hidden from the RCCh during it's crusades to purge evil from the land;
> found in a buried cave. It said that the annointing oils were
> cannabis. It even described how the use of the extracts (just like
> medical mj today) could have "healed" skin disease, muscle disease, even
> chronic menstruation. Very interesting. It was the winter '98 issue of
> Cannabis Canada. The first page of the article has a painting of Jesus
> with his hands to the sky and a gaze on his face as though he's "seen
> the light". I don't think it's all that far-fetched, personally,
> considering the period in human history. It also talks about how
> "medicine men" and religious officials kept the secrets hidden so they
> could be cool.
I wouldn't automatically dismiss this, but would like to see
more historical evidence. For me, it doesn't change the paradigm
entirely, just the specifics, which renders it a semantic change.
>
> > Second, anyone with knowledge about the pre-Christ [Judaic] definition of
> > the term "Messiah" knows that immaculate conception was not
> > a prerequisite for fulfillment of the role. The position was one of
> > political power more than religious power. By the initial definition
> > of that term, Jesus matched the criterion, as teacher and reformer.
> > The term loses (and gains) some things in the translation(s).
>
> Yes, this article also said that a "Christ" was anyone who was annointed
> with the cannabis oil, and that "Christian" was plural for Christ rather
> than the descriptor as it is used today. That is, I am a Christ not a
> Christian. There are all sorts of prophets, some free us from slavery.
> I don't know why Jesus was so special to have been conceived
> immaculately. I'm offended at the idea that you and I are not also true
> Sons of God, though as I said, really I'm just a product of Nature. Our
> brains are all similar. We all learn in a similar, but unique fashion.
> It's all good.
Agreed.
>
> > Condescension, if described as a mathematical set, would certainly intersect
> > with the set of hate. It indicates (commonly) a certain disregard for your
> > communicant, possibly a lack of respect, and possibly outright
hatred. Neither
> > is a subset of the other, but there are some common points, which, imho
> > makes them 'similar.'
>
> Ok then. Could it also be a defense mechanism?
Absolutely, and the set of defense mechanisms (this
and others) certainly intersect with a wide range of
human emotions/motivations.
>
> > > ....not to defend the original poster....
> >
> > I had figured this out, as it seemed more like
> > a discussion than a series of accusations and displays
> > of misplaced aggression.
>
> I agree. We are all victims of circumstance.
It's the old Foucault 'limited choice' thing.
matthew n. sharp
-
mns[at]mnslab.com [www.mnslab.com]
David G. Hughey
your arguments are refuted. And certainly no one has to try to make you
look bad. You are quite capable of that yourself.
Why not just debate issues without dragging extraneous baggage into it?
If you let your eggs sit on the plate long enough, they will get cold -
and there was no Christian republican rich white guy conspiracy behind
it.
Nicole Dawn Maschke wrote:
>
> --
> Greetings....
>
> - You both are truly deluded. I worked for 20 years, from the time I was 16
> to the time I was 39.... Before I was crippled from being raped. So...
> NO... I did not spend my entire life on welfare. If you bothered to read my
> bio on my web site you would find that I came from a very wealthy family,
> that I was adopted into, before I turned my back on their shallow values and
> the money... and struck out on my own to make my own way.
>
> These attacks against me are just the christians way to trying to spread
> hate against me, because they are unable to make me look bad... lmao... How
> stupid...
>
> nina jones wrote in message <35C91662...@datadesigninc.com>...
> :> But Nicole since she has spent her entire liberal life on welfare, just
> like
> :> the liberals want, really belives that the liberal ideology of socialism
> :> over freedom is the best way to go.
> :
> :definition of a liberal - they don't want the government to interfere with
> your private
> :life, but when you mess up the government should come in and bail you out.
> :
> :
--
----------------------------------------------------
David G. Hughey | Decatur, Georgia
Replace capsacin with dghughey for e-mail response
----------------------------------------------------
Wanted: Candidates who will stay away from your bedroom,
pocketbook, reproductive decisions and gun range. Any
volunteers?
Hot Sauce Pick of the Week: Iguana XXX
I am NOT Cartman's mom...
----------------------------------------------------
Matthew N. Sharp
> [crap deleted]
Then, In article <x>, "Linda & Mike Shevchuk" <shev...@bestweb.net> wrote:
> I vote to give you death
Great.
Thanks a lot.
I look forward to seeing more fingerpointing
and accusation.
You are aware (as you have just been notified) that
what you have done is provide fuel for her misplaced
aggression. The three of you are wasting everyone's time,
and most importantly, my time.
Take it to alt.flame or email.
killfiled,
David G. Hughey
releases whole.
Give ME a break...
Nicole Dawn Maschke wrote:
>
> --
> Greetings....
>
> - Another example of the cruelty of the chistian republicans...
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Streetkid-L: Promoting awareness of the plight of street children
> and other children at risk worldwide. Your participation is welcome.
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> THE WHITE HOUSE
>
> Office of the Press Secretary
> ________________________________________________________________________
> For Immediate Release August 3, 1998
>
> President Clinton and Vice President Gore
> Supporting Investments in the Young People of America
> August 3, 1998
>
> Congress Retreats from Support for Education and Youth. Republicans in
> the House of Representatives are advancing a bill that denies
> educational and training opportunities to the young people of America.
> The House Labor-HHS-Education Appropriations bill, which will soon be
> put to a vote, cuts $3.3 billion from the President's education and
> training priorities.
>
> The House Republican Bill:
>
> Eliminates the $871 million Summer Jobs program. Up to 530,000
> disadvantaged young people would be denied the opportunity to gain
> skills and valuable work experience over the summer months.
> Studies show that the Summer Jobs initiative works. A 1995 report
> concluded that more than three out of four young people enrolled
> in the program would have been jobless without it, especially
> 14-15 year-olds.
>
> Retreats from the nation's commitment to raise academic standards.
> President Clinton has proposed to help states, local communities
> and schools raise academic standards through the development of
> voluntary national tests in the basic skills and through the Goals
> 2000 program. The House bill denies 6,000 schools nationwide
> funds to help students reach high standards and would halt
> development of voluntary national tests in fourth grade reading
> and eighth grade math.
>
> Short-changes Head Start. Denies slots to up to 25,000
> low-income children compared to President Clinton's budget.
>
> Eliminates funds for reading tutors. The House bill eliminates
> $260 million for the America Reads Challenge, denying funding to
> schools and communities to improve reading programs and provide
> tutors.
>
> Denies funds for after-school programs. The House bill reduces
> the President's request for the 21st Century Community Learning
> Centers program by $140 million, denying approximately 425,000
> school-age children participation in before- and after-school
> programs.
>
> Denies disadvantaged students help in the basic skills. The
> House bill denies funds to help an additional 520,000
> educationally disadvantaged students master the basic skills, by
> cutting the President's request for Title 1 by almost $400
> million.
>
> Slows progress in putting computers in the classroom. The House
> bill denies funding to 400 school districts nationwide to provide
> students and teachers with access to computers and denies
> specialized technology training to a large number of new teachers
> first entering the classroom.
>
> Eliminates funding to prepare disadvantaged children for college.
> The House bill denies more than one million at-risk middle school
> students (over five years) the mentoring and tutoring to raise
> education expectations and eliminate barriers to college, by
> denying $140 million for the High Hopes program.
>
> Eliminates funding for middle school safety coordinators. The
> House bill denies 6,500 middle schools throughout the nation with
> $50 million that would provide full-time Safe and Drug-Free
> Schools Coordinators.
>
> Denies funding for key child care initiatives. The House bill
> denies $180 million in child care funding that we proposed to
> improve and enforce health and safety standards.
>
> Eliminates Low-Income Home Energy Assistance (LIHEAP). Under
> President Clinton's budget, more than four million low-income
> families receive help to pay for heating costs in the winter or to
> stay cool in the summer. Under the Republican plan, they won't
> get a penny.
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Streetkid-L Resource Page: http://www.jbu.edu/business/sk.html
> Listowner: jwal...@acc.jbu.edu, John Brown University
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> You know... these christians are some of the most violent and hateful people
> in the world...
> byoung wrote in message <35C8D9...@pacifier.com>...
> :Matthew N. Sharp wrote:
> :>
> :> In article <one of many>, "Nicole Dawn Maschke"
> <jmwin...@earthlink.net>
> :> wrote:
> :>
> :> > --
> :> > Greetings...
> :> >
> :> > - What a good example of hate... I state facts and this republican jerk
> then
> :> > is not able to do anything other than complain... lmao...
> :>
> :> The second sentence in this paragraph serves as a pretty
> :> functional definition of "hate".
> :
> :Do you have an actual "functional" definition of "hate" by which to
> :compare?
> :
> :> >
> :> > Religion is just an idiot's way of telling people what to believe in
> when
> :> > they are too stupid to figure it out on their own.... Religion is for
> people
> :> > who are afraid of hell.... Spirituality is for those who have been
> there...
> :>
> :> The first two sentences in this paragraph are prime examples
> :> of "hate".
> :
> :I'm not sure to which sentence you refer. No periods, only "...."
> :Anyway, the modern manifestation of religion involves "beliefs" which
> :are the antithesis of true religion. Religion comes from the heart,
> :soul, and mind, not the Bible or the Pope. The latter are inherently
> :unreliable and certainly impersonal. I'd just as soon work it out in my
> :own mind as the situation requires than accept "religious dogma", a
> :contradiction in terms imho. So-called "religion" is people writing
> :down on paper what was never intended to be recorded or *taught* per se,
> :but rather ackowledged as existing in others and recognized as being
> :easily accessible via normal mental, physical, or spiritual excercise.
> :
> :When religion must be taught it is useless and merely a "going through
> :the motions" (procedural-style church) for those who haven't a clue how
> :to tap into their own spirituality. Those who must "believe" are taking
> :the wrong approach. Typically those who "believe" can only find
> :themselves by criticizing those around them because they are essentially
> :lost souls. True Christians are tolerant; modern Christians are not
> :tolerant and therefore not true Christians. True Christians didn't use
> :violence, but rather were the ones being acted upon with violence; the
> :case is opposite today. Politics is the driving force behind modern
> :"religion", which is essentially a bunch of freaks who don't know what
> :their talking about pretending like they do. And even when a Christian
> :is tolerant, they often do so in a condescending manner, claiming that
> :they're helping you, like a savior, like Mother Theresa or other
> :missionaries.
> :
> :Religion is the opiate for the masses. When you believe, your mind
> :stops functioning. Religious people aren't necessarily spiritual
> :people.
> :
> :Jesus used cannabis as a sacrement and for his healing "miracles".
> :Jesus was just a man, not the one and only Son of God, but rather one of
> :many. We are all God's children. There was no immaculate conception
> :and if you believe that it says much about you psychologically. Namely
> :that you are sheep, following "the Word" simply because it's convenient
> :and painless and you don't have to explore your own life experiences,
> :but rather you can simply wait for the next coming of "The Savior".
> :
> :> The last is an example of condescension, which is
> :> somewhat similar to hate. The three of them combined form
> :> a rather unnerving picture of you psychologically.
> :
> :Condescension isn't similar to hate, though it certainly offends more
> :than hate. Hate is eventually destructive. At least for me,
> :condescension is a tool for making people feel dumb; which isn't harmful
> :in and of itself except to the ego, but it can be fixed which is my
> :intent, to demonstrate that not all think the same. On the otherhand,
> :if the person on the receiving end is hyper-sensitive, s/he may hate me
> :because someone told them once that it was bad to be dumb or a sheep.
> :Or is this what you meant by "functional definition of hate"?
> :
> :....not to defend the original poster....
byoung
I think it's hysterical that elected officials feel they must violate
the First Amendment in the name of "good morality". But the blind lead
the blind.
> > I don't know. I think hatred goes well beyond name-calling.
> > Name-calling certainly indicates frustration. Hatred is a complex
> > concept. Anger is easier to rationalize.
> >
>
> I would not say that hatred is the same thing as name
> calling, but name calling is a frequent device of hatred.
> And, quite honestly, probably one of the less morally
> offensive devices thereof.
Yeah, certainly better than war.
> > Yeah, I just dispute the necessity, usefulness, and motivations of
> > organizing the religion in the first place. The Roman Catholic Church
> > smashed alternative belief systems; it was about power. The danger I
> > see is that the organization becomes corrupt and we've trapped
> > ourselves.
>
> I would say that is the case for _any_ group of human
> beings, be that religious or other. I think history holds
> this to be true.
Indeed. I think it was Thomas Jefferson who said that we needed a good
Revolution every once in awhile to keep ourselves on track. History
holds this to be true as well!
> > I'd say they would be a benefit, but only after they have found
> > themselves first. That is, no one should expect the book to open their
> > eyes. Even if the Bible can open peoples' eyes, I think by starting
> > with it, and using it for that purpose drowns out the internal
> > uniqueness of the individual, making them a clone of sorts.
>
> I'm a big fan of textual intake. Information, in my view,
> cannot be good or bad. It is the application of information
> through behavior that possesses moral weight. So I would
> say that, if one is interested in religion, or Christianity in
> particular, it is in their best interest to gather as much information
> about that subject as possible in an attempt to formulate well-
> informed views. The emotional aspect should guide them through
> what they agree with and don't agree with, but they should
> read both.
Yeah, books are fine, but I think a lesson surrounding the history of
the book should be requisite. Like all the translations and editions of
the Bible throughout it's history by those "in the know".
But I still say that you don't need to be "well-informed" to find God,
except maybe for some pointers on particular techniques.
> However, this is my -personal- view. If others gain information
> in a different manner, then so be it. Mine is taken from my
> own learning process, which consists of gathering data,
> processing the data, and coming to conclusions. It does not
> preclude the use of my instincts, but does require that I look
> outside myself for additional data.
Of course we must look outside ourselves, yes. Who we are is defined by
our surroundings. But again, I hope that you take the Bible with a
grain of salt. It was written by *men* who had found God. I'm glad it
was written because it finally created a foundation after we had
floundered for years. But I can't accept it as the beginning and end of
it all, not that you do.
> > "Less impressive"? C'mon, now! Who am I trying to impress? If people
> > like it they'll come voluntarily. If they don't, then to each his own.
> > No need for a light show and pyrotechnics.
> >
> When I say "less impressive", I mean specifically "inferior
> and underdeveloped." It's all well and good to find a
> comfortable place, but it is in one's best interest to constantly
> expand mentally and emotionally.
Yeah, totally. And it's good to document as best you can. You just
have to be careful not to place too much trust in established faith
because it's easily corrupted once you've done so (established and
trusted). I think it makes it easy to be complacent. As long as you
let the document live and breathe rather than controlling it and
requiring compliance, I say go for it. Perhaps the internet will make
this kind of thing possible! Perhaps ngs will be the new living Bible.
> > Automobiles are huge resource sinks. They take too much steel, too much
> > energy, and too much oil to manufacture. Then, of course, for the
> > consumer to "get their money's worth", they must consume still MORE oil.
>
> That isn't my point, but you know that. Choose from
> any number of possible other examples in which we
> build upon the achievements of previous people.
Yeah, I know. I'm somewhat of an environmentalist. I love Mom.
> > I don't know. I think religion is one of those things that anyone can
> > discover and know the whole truth even if no one else ever told them
> > about it before. In fact, I think even the concept of "God the Father"
> > is limiting when people are discovering themselves. I think the concept
> > of "God the Father" implies that there is an "individual", when my own
> > personal interpretation is that "God" is that *it* is intangible, more
> > like "Mother Nature". And I have to wonder if the Father-Son thing was
> > a move to create a submissive relationship between church and follower
> > for power and control while simultaneously convoluting the true
> > relationship between father and son.
>
> I will agree that anyone can discover religion, but totally disagree
> that we are capable of knowing the "whole truth". I'd say that
> a good portion of "standardized religion" (ie: Father-Son construct,
> etc) relies on the simplification of complex ideas so that the mass
> population can easily adopt the concepts. That doesn't mean
> that the concepts themselves are simple, or don't carry subtextual
> data. The interpretation of these ideas by organizations for their
> constituants is where the concepts like submission to the church
> structure (dogma) comes into play.
I guess even if we thought we knew the "whole truth", we couldn't really
know if it was "whole". I don't see why we need to simply ideas so the
masses can understand. That seems a bit insecure to me; like we seek
consensus, and reassurance (which is ok; it is what it is). Like I
said, if they get it, they get it. Bypassing the individual requirement
that people do some introverting and soul-searching necessarily results
in the lack of understanding. I think putting it in an easily digested
tablet form does just that. It's a short-cut and the people who don't
get it, even with the metaphors, end up resentful and dismissive,
possibly leading to our holy wars, explaining the need for submission
(like the Marine Corp). No thanks!
> > My own personal frustration is that a believe separation of church and
> > state to be the safe way to go, to protect ourselves from misguided and
> > lazy individuals who not only want others to tell them what to do (the
> > church), but also want to pass on the imposition to those who are
> > supposedly "subservient" to them (the constituancy). But in America,
> > the elected officials are supposed to do as WE THE PEOPLE tell them, not
> > what the church tells them. This manifests itself in vice crimes like
> > prostitution and drug use. Supposedly its a crusade against immoral
> > behavior. Whenever a politician uses the word "moral" relating to
> > legislation, I raise an eyebrow. I believe the only moral value the
> > U.S. really NEEDS is that held within the Bill of Rights.
>
> I agree with most of this. The only difference I have is with the
> validity of the US Constitution, of which there are a few aspects
> I disagree with. That's completely a personal-preference thing,
> though. I would have liked to see a more constrictive structure
> towards the creation of unnecessary legislation.
Money corrupts. If we want our government back we need to make money
less desirable by making it less valuable. Barter, for example, tends
us in that direction. The Constitution didn't count on wholistic
corruption that reaches even the Supreme Court. Perhaps it IS time for
revolution? We'll vote 'em out of office, it's the American way! What
do you think of the Libertarian Party? http://www.lp.org. Of course
corruption and "selling out" is still possible there too.
> > > First, I am curious to see your source for the first sentence.
> >
> > I saw it in a magazine. Guess what kind ;) It referred to translations
> > of some Coptic writings rediscovered back in the 30s (?) that were
> > hidden from the RCCh during it's crusades to purge evil from the land;
> > found in a buried cave. It said that the annointing oils were
> > cannabis. It even described how the use of the extracts (just like
> > medical mj today) could have "healed" skin disease, muscle disease, even
> > chronic menstruation. Very interesting. It was the winter '98 issue of
> > Cannabis Canada. The first page of the article has a painting of Jesus
> > with his hands to the sky and a gaze on his face as though he's "seen
> > the light". I don't think it's all that far-fetched, personally,
> > considering the period in human history. It also talks about how
> > "medicine men" and religious officials kept the secrets hidden so they
> > could be cool.
>
> I wouldn't automatically dismiss this, but would like to see
> more historical evidence. For me, it doesn't change the paradigm
> entirely, just the specifics, which renders it a semantic change.
I'm looking for the issue (I have so many). It had all the references
at the end. I'll be away from the computer next week. I'll post the
references when I get back.
> > Yes, this article also said that a "Christ" was anyone who was annointed
> > with the cannabis oil, and that "Christian" was plural for Christ rather
> > than the descriptor as it is used today. That is, I am a Christ not a
> > Christian. There are all sorts of prophets, some free us from slavery.
> > I don't know why Jesus was so special to have been conceived
> > immaculately. I'm offended at the idea that you and I are not also true
> > Sons of God, though as I said, really I'm just a product of Nature. Our
> > brains are all similar. We all learn in a similar, but unique fashion.
> > It's all good.
>
> Agreed.
Cool.
> > > Condescension, if described as a mathematical set, would certainly intersect
> > > with the set of hate. It indicates (commonly) a certain disregard for your
> > > communicant, possibly a lack of respect, and possibly outright
> hatred. Neither
> > > is a subset of the other, but there are some common points, which, imho
> > > makes them 'similar.'
> >
> > Ok then. Could it also be a defense mechanism?
>
> Absolutely, and the set of defense mechanisms (this
> and others) certainly intersect with a wide range of
> human emotions/motivations.
Indeed. I find it fascinating.
> > > > ....not to defend the original poster....
> > >
> > > I had figured this out, as it seemed more like
> > > a discussion than a series of accusations and displays
> > > of misplaced aggression.
> >
> > I agree. We are all victims of circumstance.
>
> It's the old Foucault 'limited choice' thing.
Very good.
byoung
phls...@flash.net
Michael Beck wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Aug 1998 22:26:13 -0500, phls...@flash.net wrote:
>
> snip
> > Stan, these people haven't traveled. I have seen these so-called socialist
> >countries and they work just fine. Sweden has a great standard of living as does
> >Canada. And less homeless.
>
> What do you think of the 70%+ tax rate in the scandinavian countries?
>
You can rant and rave all you want, but you and your family would be a lot better off
financially in those countries than here.
phls...@flash.net
Michael Beck wrote:
What's the discussion of Holland have to do with Bill Clinton or someone falling
down steps?
Isn't it amazing that the free wheeling Dutch have a higher standard of living than
we do, lower teenage pregnancy rate, higher abstinance rate among teens, etc.
Michael Beck
Right. I could live in a house that is 1/4 the size of the one I own,
drive one car instead of two, pay $3.50 / gallon for gas, and make a
fraction of my current income. I could also hand over 70%+ of that
money to a bureaucracy.
Sounds like a good deal to me.
BTW, your email address, when spoken, makes a sound like a person
"passing wind".
Michael Beck
>
>
>Michael Beck wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 06 Aug 1998 22:28:12 -0500, phls...@flash.net wrote:
>>
>> snip
>> >> Wrong answer. The U.S. has the greatest amount of freedom in the world.
>> >
>> >Give me a friggin break. You can go to jail for 93 years for growning pot in
>> >your backyard for your personal use in the good ole free usa. In Holland, they
>> >would not care one whit.
>> >
>> >In Holland, you can buy adult literature or visit a lady of the evening or do
>> >anything that a free human being should be allowed to do.
>> >
>> >And therre are no dry counties in Holland.
>>
>> Why don't you move to the Netherlands then?
>> You can get stoned and read girlie mags before visiting a prostitute
>> every day. After that, you can drink yourself blind and fall down a
>> famous golfer's steps. What a life! Are you Bill Clinton's long lost
>> brother or something?
>
> What's the discussion of Holland have to do with Bill Clinton or someone falling
>down steps?
I thought that I would sneak that in.
>
>Isn't it amazing that the free wheeling Dutch have a higher standard of living than
>we do, lower teenage pregnancy rate, higher abstinance rate among teens, etc.
Higher suicide rate.
Lower standard of living.
But, if it's so great, why don't you get on a plane and go (unless
you're already there).
Gary L. Dare
: What do you think of the 70%+ tax rate in the scandinavian countries?
Only for somebody who isn't taking full advantage of tax shelters.
The US had 90% tax brackets until Nixon's tax reform ...
: Canada? They are basically in a recession.
NOT ... a 3%+ growth rate does not a recession make ...
Although Canada did enter the last recession cycle first
and exit last due to the return of Quebec nationalism, an
issue totally irrelevant to the intent of your thesis ...
[Canadian news is available online, such as Conrad Black's
Financial Post at www.canoe.ca, which will save some people
the trouble of having to make stuff up ... (-;]
The Canadian dollar has had problems due to the Asian Flu.
That's because 12% of Canada's economy relies on natural
resource exports or investments. Lost customers in Asia
and devalued resource holdings in Asia ... Canada has a
balanced federal budget without borrowing from public
pensions like the US does with Social Security trust
fund loans, lower capital gains taxes (7% vs. 20% US),
no death taxes, highly privatized retirement system ...
stuff that Mr. Gingrich wants for the US ...
Canada's reborn fiscal conservatism drove down its
interest rates, as one would expect, but timing is
bad and money fleeing Asian Flu is going to high
interest bonds issued by debt-toting Washington ...
Gary L. Dare
: What do you think of the 70%+ tax rate in the scandinavian countries?
By the way, most other countries don't levy surtaxes like FICA
which don't show up in income tax benchmark comparison tables.
Everything is bundled. No Social Security trust fund loans
scamming (up to 5% of your FICA + employer's matching being
used to subsidize general tax revenues, creating unfunded
future liability) is allowed with their public pension plans.
Michael Beck
>Michael Beck (Michael.B...@worldnet.att.net) wrote:
>
>: What do you think of the 70%+ tax rate in the scandinavian countries?
>
>By the way, most other countries don't levy surtaxes like FICA
>which don't show up in income tax benchmark comparison tables.
>Everything is bundled. No Social Security trust fund loans
>scamming (up to 5% of your FICA + employer's matching being
>used to subsidize general tax revenues, creating unfunded
>future liability) is allowed with their public pension plans.
boy, it takes multiple posts for you to finish frothing at the
mouth.....
I don't want a 70% tax rate here. Period.
Socialism doesn't work. It eventually implodes.
phls...@flash.net
Michael Beck wrote:
> Higher suicide rate.
And the US has an incredibly higher murder rate.
> Lower standard of living.
>
Absolutely not. The Dutch standard of living is much higher than ours.
>
Gary L. Dare
: >By the way, most other countries don't levy surtaxes like FICA
: >which don't show up in income tax benchmark comparison tables.
: I don't want a 70% tax rate here. Period.
Nobody has a 70% net tax rate ... nobody has a flat income tax
of any sort (except for the US with FICA, but that's technically
not counted as an income tax). Do you know how tax brackets
works?
: Socialism doesn't work. It eventually implodes.
As the US is finding out with Social Security ... at least
the way it's implemented ...
My impressions in this thread is that Americans, most of whom
have not been outside their country, grossly overestimate the
level of what they term "socialism" outside of the US and at
the same time, underestimate the amount found domestically.
Michael Beck
>
>
>Michael Beck wrote:
>
>> Higher suicide rate.
>
>And the US has an incredibly higher murder rate.
Yep. Especially in the areas controlled by liberal democrats!
>
>> Lower standard of living.
>>
>
>Absolutely not. The Dutch standard of living is much higher than ours.
Then, why are you still here? Get on the next KLM flight to
Amsterdam!
>
>>
>
>
phls...@flash.net
Michael Beck wrote:
The Dutch don't want us. They think everyone in this country is like you.
cl...@ans.com.au
phls...@flash.net wrote:
> Stan, these people haven't traveled. I have seen these so-called socialist
> countries and they work just fine. Sweden has a great standard of living as
does
> Canada. And less homeless.
>
>
HA So I haven't traveled?
I live in Australia, numbnuts. I wish my fellow libertarians could see this
country, they'd know what we are fighting for in the U.S. and fight like
wildcats after they had gotten a taste of a world run by liberal kooks and
marxist nutbags.
I have visited France, Canada and Sweden. Sweet God help us all, what
socialist hell-holes these places are. Did you know you have to file a
petition with the city council before you paint a room inside your house that
describes the color, origin of the paint and chemical composition in France?
I lived in Britain for 6 months - JESUS!!!! GOD HELP ME WHAT A BAD SCIENCE
FICTION MOVIE this place is! Worse than 1984 by a long shot!
Cameras everywhere, on every signpost, in bathrooms, all street corners, with
night vision and monitored constantly by authorities.
Signs with rules dictating all forms of human behavior and expression. This is
banned. That is banned. Everything is banned.
All weapons down to the last butter knife stripped from the population, they
cannot keep so much as a breakable glass in the house. (Eerily reminiscent to
Britain right before WWII broke out ... they had disarmed themselves then,
too.)
And as for the public health care system ... ask a Brit to open his mouth.
Look at his teeth. There's your public health care system for you. Hilary
Clinton should be bolted with leather straps to a chair and have her eyelids
stapled to her forehead and be forced to watch a slideshow of closeups of
British people's teeth for 72 hours, over and over again. See if the
bull-dyke is in love with Karl Marx when it is over.
Gary L. Dare
: I lived in Britain for 6 months - JESUS!!!! GOD HELP ME WHAT A BAD
: SCIENCE FICTION MOVIE this place is! Worse than 1984 by a long shot!
Are we talking about the post-Thatcher UK of enterprise economy
and a 5% unemployment rate (without incarcerating nearly 1% of
the populace)? Readers might want to investigate themselves
through newspapers online like http://www.independent.co.uk/,
the Independent newspaper.
Another glimpse of what modern, reborn free market Britain
looks like is the movie "Sliding Doors" with Gwyneth Paltrow.
: Cameras everywhere, on every signpost, in bathrooms, all street
: corners, with night vision and monitored constantly by authorities.
I visit England regularly on business. This is bull.
: And as for the public health care system ... ask a Brit to open his mouth.
: Look at his teeth. There's your public health care system for you.
This stereotype might still apply to older Britons who were
alive during WW II. Otherwise, dental health is well known
among the general populace, who must pay for dental through
PRIVATE health insurance or cash money. Their National Health
Service only pays a cash reimbursement (i.e., insurance method
not HMO) for children, and if your private dentist charges a
higher rate then you must pay the difference.
phls...@flash.net
Gary L. Dare wrote:
If you don't stop making sense, Cleve will probably yell and scream and you
like he does Hillary.
Michael Beck
Well you should go since you're so *different*!
cl...@ans.com.au
g...@ripco.com (Gary L. Dare) wrote:
> cl...@ans.com.au wrote:
>
> : I lived in Britain for 6 months - JESUS!!!! GOD HELP ME WHAT A BAD
> : SCIENCE FICTION MOVIE this place is! Worse than 1984 by a long shot!
>
> Are we talking about the post-Thatcher UK of enterprise economy
> and a 5% unemployment rate (without incarcerating nearly 1% of
> the populace)?
The poor pitiful little commie Brits are a lot like the Australians ... the
tidal wave of American prosperity lifts all boats, even leaky crappy little
garbage barges. The socialist countries, lame hobbled cripples crawling
towards bankruptcy, get their carcasses floated off the rocks by the enormous
wall of water and they immediately begin claiming victory for Karl Marx. Get
a grip!
Catching the crumbs that fall off the American table (2 ton pieces of bread)
and then singing the praises of centralized governments is a bit absurd. The
poor French, British, Australians and Canadians are like sick and dying men
who are laid out on stretchers dragged behind the American Free Market
Dynamo.
That is not an economy, that is a last-minute reprieve from execution. Hell,
even Cuba is enjoying a bit of investment nowadays. That shows you how
powerful the bellows in the furnace of the free really is.
Once again, the superhuman gods that stride the world like titans save all of
mankind's pathetic misguided asses with their Jeffersonian ideology. You might
know them as "Americans." I prefer to think of them as the giants of history,
the megaliths of Mount Olympus, the straight-shooting liberty loving ass-
kicking buckskin heroes who are the light of the world. I'm trying to restrain
myself but you get the point in my modest summary of their many virtues.
Stan
> The poor pitiful little commie Brits are a lot like the Australians ... the
> tidal wave of American prosperity lifts all boats, even leaky crappy little
> garbage barges. The socialist countries, lame hobbled cripples crawling
> towards bankruptcy, get their carcasses floated off the rocks by the enormous
> wall of water and they immediately begin claiming victory for Karl Marx. Get
> a grip!
And all of these poor unfortunate souls in the UK, Australia, western
Europe, and Canada can go see the doctor of their choice, thanks to their
national health plans. Is that true here the free-market utopia of American
health insurance?
--Stan
If we let HMOs run the post office, 43 million Americans wouldn't get any mail.
guesswho
Europe, and Canada can go see the doctor of their choice, thanks to
their
national health plans. Is that true here the free-market utopia of
American
health insurance?
--Stan
Yes.
Irma Ponti-Cowperthwaite
>
> In article <6qn2fg$1g0$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, cl...@ans.com.au wrote:
>
> > The poor pitiful little commie Brits are a lot like the Australians ... the
> > tidal wave of American prosperity lifts all boats, even leaky crappy little
> > garbage barges. The socialist countries, lame hobbled cripples crawling
> > towards bankruptcy, get their carcasses floated off the rocks by the enormous
> > wall of water and they immediately begin claiming victory for Karl Marx. Get
> > a grip!
>
Good point, Stan!
--Irma
Marcio V. Pinheiro
wrote:
>On Wed, 12 Aug 1998 15:04:28 -0600, guesswho <han...@physics.isu.edu>
>wrote:
>
>>And all of these poor unfortunate souls in the UK, Australia, western
>>Europe, and Canada can go see the doctor of their choice, thanks to
>>their national health plans. Is that true here the free-market utopia of
>>American health insurance?
>>
>
>Europe...that's where you wait 6 months to see a specialist, and (fer
>example) in Britain once you are over 55 you are no longer eligible
>for dialysis treatment?
>
>Canada. That's the place that (for a while) the hospitals were so
>desperate for money that they rented out their MRIs at night to
>veternarians? That every year cuts the # of hospital beds available?
>That shuts down hospitals and clinics the last 2-3 weeks of the fiscal
>year because they never have enough money to keep the doors open?
>
>Thank you, no thank you. I've had friends who got sent to European
>hospitals while on travel: They BEGGED to be sent home to the States
>where they would get decent, up to date medical care. For basic,
>preventative care you can't beat the countries with nationalized
>health care. It's when you really NEED them in an emergency that you
>appreciate the United States. They simply don't have the capacity to
>do anything else BUT preventative medicine (which is relatively cheap)
>right.
Another guy who thinks he knows what goes on in the world. His source?
Harry and Louise TV adds.
mv...@ix.netcom.com
http://www.netcom.com/~mvp1/soloproviders1.htm
Gary L. Dare
: Europe...that's where you wait 6 months to see a specialist,
Only if you rely on lowest tier, public-only funded clinics.
Most places have additional private insurance to see higher
priced doctors. Providing some level of insurance does not
mean providing it entirely, and the health services remain
private.
: in Britain once you are over 55 you are no longer eligible
: for dialysis treatment?
If you rely solely on their National Health Service, in some
areas you'll be priority queued if demand is too high. But
if you have additional private insurance, you're fine. It's
unequal, but isn't that what some of you like?
: Canada. That's the place that (for a while) the hospitals were so
: desperate for money that they rented out their MRIs at night to
: veternarians?
In one small town, they did ... after learning that rural
American hospitals did so.
: That every year cuts the # of hospital beds available?
Otherwise, keeping unused beds on call with corporate welfare?
: That shuts down hospitals and clinics the last 2-3 weeks of the fiscal
: year because they never have enough money to keep the doors open?
Never happened. Find us a reference from any Canadian papers
online: www.globeandmail.ca, www.thestar.ca, montrealgazette.com
or www.canoe.ca, for starters.
The Canadian "system" is essentially an extended version of US
Medicare ... no public HMO so the above can't happen, hospitals
are private as are doctors' practices.
George Conklin
OrionCA <ori...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>On Wed, 12 Aug 1998 15:04:28 -0600, guesswho <han...@physics.isu.edu>
>wrote:
>
>>And all of these poor unfortunate souls in the UK, Australia, western
>>Europe, and Canada can go see the doctor of their choice, thanks to
>>their national health plans. Is that true here the free-market utopia of
>>American health insurance?
>>
>
>example) in Britain once you are over 55 you are no longer eligible
>for dialysis treatment?
>
>Canada. That's the place that (for a while) the hospitals were so
>desperate for money that they rented out their MRIs at night to
>That shuts down hospitals and clinics the last 2-3 weeks of the fiscal
>year because they never have enough money to keep the doors open?
>
>hospitals while on travel: They BEGGED to be sent home to the States
>where they would get decent, up to date medical care. For basic,
>preventative care you can't beat the countries with nationalized
>health care. It's when you really NEED them in an emergency that you
>appreciate the United States. They simply don't have the capacity to
>do anything else BUT preventative medicine (which is relatively cheap)
>right.
>Never fly on an airline whose pilots believe in reincarnation.
Every one of the above lies has been refuted so soundly
over the past two years no one with one ounce of self-worth
could possibly post such trash.
cl...@ans.com.au
ipo...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> Stan wrote:
> > And all of these poor unfortunate souls in the UK, Australia, western
> > Europe, and Canada can go see the doctor of their choice, thanks to their
> > national health plans. Is that true here the free-market utopia of American
> > health insurance?
> >
>
> Good point, Stan!
>
> --Irma
>
Of course it is. America's health care system is practically like the deck of
the Starship Enterprise. When will you realize that Americans are a science-
fiction race of superior beings compared with other sadsack no-clue quasi-
communist countries?
Last time I visited the States (going home soon) my brother cut himself badly
working on the roof of a house. We drove to one of the new 24 hour private
health care centers - it looked like a spaceship. My brother put his magnetic
ID card in, the doors slid open, the nurse met us at the door with a cup of
coffee. They already knew who my brother was, all his details were in the
computer. He was stitched up with the innovative new flesh spray and butterfly
tape in about eight minutes and we went to Denny's for some gravy on toast.
I sat in Denny's with tears running down my cheeks, thinking that America was
a utopian paradise the likes of which the filthy smog-choking stained-teeth
Winston Smith-style British slaves could never even imagine. Tony Blair, eat
our dust you crypto-commie ratbag. A socialist always gets what he deserves
in the end, ask the Soviets.
"OH no, we have a large central planning committee! How could America have
better health care than we do? Our expert government employees evaluate the
latest techniques at least once every decade! Managed competition! You CAN
eat more bread than you can bake! Resource distribution schemes can work as
long as you have enough important looking paperwork floating around!"
There is only ONE way for people to get what they want in life. FREE Markets.
Not government managed markets, not managed competition. FREE Markets. The
free market can achieve in a day what a bunch of bureaucrats could not do in
a century. Cheaper and quicker. Does a bureaucrat claim it is impossible? Now
you know why they work for the government - because they are failed human
beings. How can a good health care system be administrated by people who do
not answer to the market and who could not start their own business in the
private sector?
My brother paid $800 U.S. to join the clinic network (branches almost as
common as 7-11 stores) and $29 a month subscription. Rock, scissors, paper
... you lose, commie-boy.
Michael Beck
Since we have Clinton and his wife at the helm, I don't underestimate
the socialism in the US.
I *have* been outside my country extensively. In fact, I'm employed
by a foreign company.
The level of socialism outside the US is generally much larger than
found within.
Nicole Dawn Maschke
--
Greetings....
- Like always... there are people in this country who refuse to
admit that the bulk of Americans have no health care at all...
And furthermore... the point is that that republican bill will
not give ANY rights to the people who get their HMOs from work...
Nor will the republican plan give anyone the right to sue...
-----------------------------------------------------------------
--------
Remember ... The following are all facts...!
1. Pope Innocent I order the killing of Pagans because they
refused to convert to christianity. (Encarta Ecnyclopedia, A&E
Television, World Book Encyclopedia)
2. Pope Innocent IV ordered the killing of all Muslim and Jews in
the Middle East because he declared that the entire world must be
purged of any sinner... and non-christian. (Encarta Ecnyclopedia,
A&E Television, World Book Encyclopedia)
3. Pope Borjia and his daughter Lucretia personally told lies and
destroyed the lives of anyone who disagreed with the pope... and
hundreds of their opponents were poisoned because they would not
submit to the christian point of view. (Encarta Ecnyclopedia, A&E
Television, World Book Encyclopedia)
4. Pope Benedictus ordered the killing of all Jews and
non-Christians under the Spanish Inquisition because he felt that
allowing any non-christian to live was a sin. And he also decreed
that the only people allowed to read and interpret the Bible were
priests. Most books were censored and not allowed under Pope
Benedictus... (Encarta Ecnyclopedia, A&E Television, World Book
Encyclopedia)
5. The christians destroyed the Inca writing, and language in
order to conquer them, and to force them to convert to the
christian faith. The result was the complete destruction of the
Inca culture, as a result of the fact that the Incas would rather
be dead than christian...(Encarta Ecnyclopedia, A&E Television,
World Book Encyclopedia)
6. The christians destroyed the Mayan culture in order to force
conversion on them. The result ... the Mayan culture completely
vanished from the face of the earth. (Encarta Ecnyclopedia, A&E
Television, World Book Encyclopedia)
7. The christians attacked and killed the leader of the Aztec
culture, in order to force the Aztecs to convert to the christian
faith. The result was the complete destruction of the Aztec
culture, until recently, when there has been a backlash against
the christians who stole the Aztec culture int he first place.
(Encarta Ecnyclopedia, A&E Television, World Book Encyclopedia)
8. The christians murdered American Indians, stole their culture,
stole their children and forced them to go to christian shools,
and deprived them of their Indian heritage and culture, all in
order to force conversion on them. This practice started with
Columbus on the island of Hispanola. (Encarta Ecnyclopedia, A&E
Television, World Book Encyclopedia)
9. The christians destroyed hundred of African cultures, in order
to use the Africans as slaves and to treat them as property. So
hateful and evil were the christians that even if the black
person was to convert to their faith, the christians would still
treat the black as property. In the majority of cases the
christians raped the black women, killed the black men, stole
their culture, and sold the children at auction as property.
(Encarta Ecnyclopedia, A&E Television, World Book Encyclopedia)
10. In Salem, Massachusetts the christians, on the word of three
hysterical girls, hung, and burned men, women and children, for
being a Pagan... and the christians were known to sing and dance
as the people died. So many women were hung on one hill that it
is now called gallows hill. (Encarta Ecnyclopedia, A&E
Television, World Book Encyclopedia)
11. Until 1950 the christians would not allow, in the United
States, for the religion of Paganism to be viewed as a legal
religion. And then, the christians kept up a ten year fight to
prevent religious freedom from extending to the Pagan community.
(Encarta Ecnyclopedia, A&E Television, World Book Encyclopedia)
12. Every single time that any non-christian has run for the
office of president, the christian movement has set about telling
lies, about this person, and doing anything in order to prevent
the person from being elected. As a result of the christian mob
tactics, there has never been a president in the US who has not
been white, male, and christian. (Encarta Ecnyclopedia, A&E
Television, World Book Encyclopedia)
13. There has not been one single culture in the world that the
christians have interacted with, whereby the christians did not
destroy that 'other' culture. (Encarta Ecnyclopedia, A&E
Television, World Book Encyclopedia)
14. The christians now are telling lies about gays. And, while
religious freedom exists in the United States, religious freedom
does not exist for the gay population. The christians will not
allow gays to practice their religion in peace, with respect.
According to the christian hate, the gays must submit to the
christian way of life or be classified as NON-American ... and
NON-citizens. Thus, if there is really religious freedom, then
why are the gays not allowed to practice their religion freely?
(NBC News, CBS News, 60 Minutes, CNN News, New York Times)
15. It was the christians who said, "... women who work, beat
their children, abuse their husbands, take drugs, worship satan,
and are bent on self-destruction...". (Pat Robertson, 700 Club)
Those words are lies. (Channel 43, WUAB, Cleveland, Ohio) And
Senator Trent Lott said on national television that "... gays
were mentally ill ...". (NBC, CBS, CNN). This is a direct lie,
according to the American Medical Association.
16. It was the christians who declared war on this nation. The
religious right has said that they are in a war for the soul of
America. Thus, the christians are then saying that all other
faiths do not have the same validity, or the level of freedom
that the christian faith has. So much for the first
amendment...! (NBC, CBS, CNN News)
17. in an interview with Mike Wallace in the 1980's on the
program "60 Minutes" the leader of the American Baptist Community
said that their plan was to take over the government and then to
make all faiths, other than Christian, illegal. (CBS, 60 Minutes)
18. It is the christians who now attack the gays... the
christians are telling lies about gays, and saying that the gay
'faith' must be stamped out... thereby the christians are showing
no tolerance, or respect for the religious freedom of gays.
Thus, religious freedom to the christians, means religion as far
as the christians can tolerate it. If the christians don't like
the religion that you practice they will make your life a living
nighmare... (NBC News, CBS, CNN)
19. When anything bad happens in the world, regardless of whether
the christians had anything to do with it or not... the
christians rush to find someone to blame... regardless of whether
that someone had anything to do with it or not. When things go
well in the world, the christians rush to grab credit for that
thing, whether the christians had anything to do with that thing
or not. (World Book Encyclopedia)
20. Religious freedom in the United States means having christian
law, christian judges, christian lawmakers, christian rules,
christian television, christian stores, christian government,
christian states, christian culture... All other faiths are
merely tolerated and not looked on as equal by the christians...
for anyone who does not follow their very narrowminded
perspective is said to be working for the devil, or is a sinner.
Thus, anyone who does agree with the christians is made out to be
less of a human than the christians... by the very nature of how
the christians worship. (extrapolation, based on the foregoing
research)
Now the christians come for the gays... they come for me... Next
they'll be coming for YOU...!
-----------------------------------------------------------------
--------
Freedom Now! Not For Some! For Everyone!
Nicole Dawn Maschke
P.O. Box 602696, Cleveland, Ohio 44102
The Phoenix: http://home.earthlink.net/~jmwindgate/phoenix.html
Political Mailing List: jmwin...@earthlink.net
AOL Instant Messenger: JNWindgate
Online Hours: 09:00 - 16:00 EDT
cl...@ans.com.au wrote in message
<6qu7bu$79v$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
:In article <35D209...@ix.netcom.com>,
Nicole Dawn Maschke
--
Greetings....
- Hey asshole... refute this...
1. the republican plan does not give any patient rights to anyone
who gets their HMO from the place where they work.
2. The republican plan does not allow anyone to sue the HMO, even
if the HMO policy ends up killing the patient...
(FOX News, CNN News, NBC News - Aug 1998)
-----------------------------------------
Freedom Now! Not For Some! For Everyone!
Nicole Dawn Maschke
P.O. Box 602696, Cleveland, Ohio 44102
The Phoenix: http://home.earthlink.net/~jmwindgate/phoenix.html
Political Mailing List: jmwin...@earthlink.net
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George Conklin wrote in message <6qu7a7$3qi$1...@nina.pagesz.net>...
:In article <35d745d6...@news.earthlink.net>,
:OrionCA <ori...@earthlink.net> wrote:
:>On Wed, 12 Aug 1998 15:04:28 -0600, guesswho
<han...@physics.isu.edu>
:>wrote:
:>
:>>And all of these poor unfortunate souls in the UK, Australia,
western
:>>Europe, and Canada can go see the doctor of their choice,
thanks to
:>>their national health plans. Is that true here the free-market
utopia of
:>>American health insurance?
:>>
:>
:>Europe...that's where you wait 6 months to see a specialist,
:
:
:
cl...@ans.com.au
ive...@utk.edu (Stan) wrote:
> In article <6qn2fg$1g0$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, cl...@ans.com.au wrote:
>
> > The poor pitiful little commie Brits are a lot like the Australians ... the
> > tidal wave of American prosperity lifts all boats, even leaky crappy little
> > garbage barges. The socialist countries, lame hobbled cripples crawling
> > towards bankruptcy, get their carcasses floated off the rocks by the
enormous
> > wall of water and they immediately begin claiming victory for Karl Marx. Get
> > a grip!
>
> Europe, and Canada can go see the doctor of their choice, thanks to their
> national health plans. Is that true here the free-market utopia of American
> health insurance?
>
The most important thing to understand about socialism is that it is a meme
which provides a powerful social glue to hold together a coalition of people
who outwardly seem very different ... environmentalists, feminists,
journalists, etc. from all walks of life.
What is significant about this meme, this paradigm for reality that originated
with Karl Marx ... is not the fact that it is silly, infantile and has been a
miserable failure wherever it has been tried, again and again for thousands of
years. What is important about this meme is that it provides a sense of common
purpose and righteous indignation to a group of people whose basic problem is
that they are essentially flawed in one way or another. As Milton Friedman
pointed out ... the socialist has innate subconscious knowledge of their own
inferiority masked by many levels of self-deception and cognitive dissonance.
At it's root, like most ideologies, it is a key to property seizure and
theft. But concealed behind a thin scummy gel of supposed benevolence, it
pretends to want to help the "unfortunate" and the "poor." Although it claims
to be irreligious or related to secular humanism, this is not accurate ... it
is like any religion ... if followers adhere faithfully to it there is always
the chance they will reap great personal gains through the use of theft or
property redistribution by the government if the meme can reorganize an
entire system of human conduct. The socialist may get a comfy committee job
out of it or a miniature empire in some bureacracy somewhere. All of these
things impossible for such failed men elsewhere by any fair means.
Socialism and the myth of "socialist economics" persists not because it works
(it never has and it never will) but because it gives an important gift to the
botched and bungled ... the gift of hope. The socialist may think, deep down,
"I'll never be able to hold down a real job based on my competency that pays
decent money," but they can imagine a situation in a large socialist
bureaucracy where they may score a cushy position unaccountable to any market
realities doing something like Stan does ... serving as an apologist for a
system that is a blatant failure by any yardstick.
Socialism is always entropic. It is a black whirlpool into which more and
more money pours with less and less rewards. In the United States, we have
our own catastrophic socialist disaster called Medicare. It doesn't matter
that people don't think of it as socialism, it fails anyway despite any label
because it is socialism. Socialism NEVER works. NEVER. If you can make
socialism work, you are claiming supernatural and superhuman powers for
yourself. You should also be able to make time run backwards and gravity
cease altogether for limited periods.
Rhonda Kisel
Another guy who thinks he knows what goes on in the world. His source?
Harry and Louise TV adds.
Are you trying to pretend that reality isn't a reality, Marcio? What would your fellow psychiatrists think, Marcio?
I don't want to read your posts anymore, Marcio, since they are filled with these condescending sneers to people on this board. What is your real issue -- what is REALLY bothering you, Marcio?
Rhonda
George Conklin
>
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>Marcio V. Pinheiro wrote:
>
>> Another guy who thinks he knows what goes on in the world. His source?
>>
>> Harry and Louise TV adds.
>
>Where are YOUR facts, Marcio? Where are YOUR sources?
>
>Are you trying to pretend that reality isn't a reality, Marcio? What
>would your fellow psychiatrists think, Marcio?
>
>I don't want to read your posts anymore, Marcio, since they are filled
>
posted about Canadian medicine. The myths posted rank right
up there with the idea that a queen snake is ready in your
toilet to rise up and bit you in the ass.
Irma Ponti-Cowperthwaite
>
> Marcio V. Pinheiro wrote:
>
> Another guy who thinks he knows what goes on in the world.
> His source?
> Harry and Louise TV adds.
>
> Where are YOUR facts, Marcio? Where are YOUR sources?
>
> Are you trying to pretend that reality isn't a reality, Marcio? What
> would your fellow psychiatrists think, Marcio?
>
> I don't want to read your posts anymore, Marcio, since they are filled
> real issue -- what is REALLY bothering you, Marcio?
>
> Rhonda
Rhonda,
I imagine that no one is forcing you to read Marcio's posters. That's
one reality. Another reality seems to be your ambivalence about it,
since you asked him a question: "what is REALLY bothering you, Marcio?"
What if he answers your question, Rhonda? Would you read his poster
then?
--Irma
Marcio V. Pinheiro
you read Rhonda... So there goes one of my sources... Did you see how
he talks about the rest of the industrialized world?... Let's go back
there and see what he thinks... Give me you hand that I will take you
there...
Hmm, what is bothering me?...Bothering me?... I am not sure... Let me
think... it could be the fact the richest country in the world doesn't
have universal access to health care...
Hmm, let me think more... oh! yes...health care is a right... of
course it is right... but not in the richest country in the world...
Should this bother people?...
Apparently no, according to Rhonda...
People?...What is this?...
Regards!
On Thu, 13 Aug 1998 20:05:49 GMT, Rhonda Kisel <ki...@en.com> wrote:
>Marcio V. Pinheiro wrote:
>
>> Another guy who thinks he knows what goes on in the world. His source?
>>
>> Harry and Louise TV adds.
>
>Where are YOUR facts, Marcio? Where are YOUR sources?
>
>Are you trying to pretend that reality isn't a reality, Marcio? What
>would your fellow psychiatrists think, Marcio?
>
>I don't want to read your posts anymore, Marcio, since they are filled
>with these condescending sneers to people on this board. What is your
>real issue -- what is REALLY bothering you, Marcio?
>
>Rhonda
mv...@ix.netcom.com
http://www.netcom.com/~mvp1/soloproviders1.htm
Marcio V. Pinheiro
wrote:
>In article <35D3471F...@en.com>, Rhonda Kisel <ki...@en.com> wrote:
>>
>>--------------B00BFF7AB1F61012DC1CE2C8
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>>
>>Marcio V. Pinheiro wrote:
>>
>>> Another guy who thinks he knows what goes on in the world. His source?
>>>
>>> Harry and Louise TV adds.
>>
>>Where are YOUR facts, Marcio? Where are YOUR sources?
>>
>>Are you trying to pretend that reality isn't a reality, Marcio? What
>>would your fellow psychiatrists think, Marcio?
>>
>>I don't want to read your posts anymore, Marcio, since they are filled
>>
> Rhonda, Marcio is complaining about the flat-out lies
>posted about Canadian medicine. The myths posted rank right
>up there with the idea that a queen snake is ready in your
>toilet to rise up and bit you in the ass.
>
I know George...but she is an intelligent woman... And Canada is so
close! I just came from there the other day... I really fail to
understand how come people "know" so well what is going on in other
countries. I guess they need to believe on things that will fit their
ideological distortions...
There are so many room for a criticism and improvement of the Canadian
and the British Systems. Of course there are. But not by replacing
them with HMOs and MSAs. Ask these people if they want this...
Just ask!
mv...@ix.netcom.com
http://www.netcom.com/~mvp1/soloproviders1.htm
Marcio V. Pinheiro
wrote:
>On 13 Aug 1998 04:15:03 -0400, hen...@nina.pagesz.net (George Conklin)
>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Every one of the above lies has been refuted so soundly
>>over the past two years no one with one ounce of self-worth
>>could possibly post such trash.
>
>Translation: He yells good and loud everytime these facts are
>presented in hopes of drowning them out. Sorry, old bean: Every
>charge is true. You just didn't want to BELIEVE it when these were
>posted before.
Anyone from Canada or England around?... Or should we assume that
these people don't exist because they don't live in the USA?...
mv...@ix.netcom.com
http://www.netcom.com/~mvp1/soloproviders1.htm
cl...@ans.com.au
"Nicole Dawn Maschke" <jmwin...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Remember ... The following are all facts...!
Check out this beret-wearing nut! She's hilarious!
> 1. Pope Innocent I order the killing of Pagans because they
> refused to convert to christianity. (Encarta Ecnyclopedia, A&E
> Television, World Book Encyclopedia)
As did Islamic, Jewish, Protestant, Buddhist, Hinduist and all other
religions since the beginning of recorded history - massacre people who
refused to accept them. Most religions were based on blood and genes in
determining who were heathens ... Christianity is the only religion in the
world to ever issue the promise of salvation to all mankind and
correspondingly has been guilty of far fewer atrocities than most religious
sects.
> 2. Pope Innocent IV ordered the killing of all Muslim and Jews in
> the Middle East because he declared that the entire world must be
> purged of any sinner... and non-christian. (Encarta Ecnyclopedia,
> A&E Television, World Book Encyclopedia)
As did Muslims and Jews as soon as they were dominant. Try reading some more,
Nicole, you hysterical nut. Islamic cultures have been notably and
particularly more expeditious about this extermination than any other
religion, elevating violence to an unusually high virtue in their cultures.
> 3. Pope Borjia and his daughter Lucretia personally told lies and
> destroyed the lives of anyone who disagreed with the pope... and
> hundreds of their opponents were poisoned because they would not
> submit to the christian point of view. (Encarta Ecnyclopedia, A&E
> Television, World Book Encyclopedia)
Ditto for all other world religions.
> 4. Pope Benedictus ordered the killing of all Jews and
> non-Christians under the Spanish Inquisition because he felt that
> allowing any non-christian to live was a sin. And he also decreed
> that the only people allowed to read and interpret the Bible were
> priests. Most books were censored and not allowed under Pope
> Benedictus... (Encarta Ecnyclopedia, A&E Television, World Book
> Encyclopedia)
Same edicts issued by all dominant religions at one point or another.
> 5. The christians destroyed the Inca writing, and language in
> order to conquer them, and to force them to convert to the
> christian faith. The result was the complete destruction of the
> Inca culture, as a result of the fact that the Incas would rather
> be dead than christian...(Encarta Ecnyclopedia, A&E Television,
> World Book Encyclopedia)
No, they did their best to convert to Christianity but were slaughtered
anyway. I can see most of your education is of the "koffee-klatch college
capuccino" variety.
By the way, the Incas were an astonishingly violent people who worked very
hard at genocides themselves, sometimes sacrificing as many as 20,000 people
in a single day on top of their pyramids by cutting out the still beating
hearts of war captives. They just lost to the Spaniards, but they were not
exactly flower- children singing love hymns when they were the rulers of
South America.
> 6. The christians destroyed the Mayan culture in order to force
> conversion on them. The result ... the Mayan culture completely
> vanished from the face of the earth. (Encarta Ecnyclopedia, A&E
> Television, World Book Encyclopedia)
Mayans extremely vicious, see Incans above. Vicious people killing other
vicious people to propagate their memes and genes ... kind of like a broken
record in human history. Change the faces, it is the same tragic play over and
over again.
> 7. The christians attacked and killed the leader of the Aztec
> culture, in order to force the Aztecs to convert to the christian
> faith. The result was the complete destruction of the Aztec
> culture, until recently, when there has been a backlash against
> the christians who stole the Aztec culture int he first place.
> (Encarta Ecnyclopedia, A&E Television, World Book Encyclopedia)
No, there have been a lot of people sneaking across the Southern borders who
like to imagine themselves descended from Aztecs but in all likelihood are
more spanish than Aztec. They like to pretend they are descended from Aztecs
so that they can unite and steal land from the lower U.S. rather than getting
jobs and buying real estate. Rationalization of theft through "lineage
rights" from lazy bums. Stick that in your taco.
> 8. The christians murdered American Indians, stole their culture,
> stole their children and forced them to go to christian shools,
> and deprived them of their Indian heritage and culture, all in
> order to force conversion on them. This practice started with
> Columbus on the island of Hispanola. (Encarta Ecnyclopedia, A&E
> Television, World Book Encyclopedia)
The American Indians, contrary to liberal propaganda like DANCING WITH WOLVES,
were an unbelievably violent people who spent most of their time making war on
each other. The early american colonists were given a choice, the one people
have had to make throughout history ... destroy them or they'll destroy you.
This meek "Spirit Brother" wouldn't-kill-a-fly-noble-savage mythology crap was
old and silly even in Mark Twain's time, and it has only been elaborated on by
liberal whackos since then. The Indians tried to kick ass and do rapes, but
they found themselves looking into the barrel of a long rifle and a buckskin
hero who was not down with their aboriginal sh*t. The European came out on top
and had nothing to be ashamed of. The Indians could have integrated but they
gave up to die instead. Reservation gambling is the best thing that ever
happened to them, maybe they'll join the human race.
> 9. The christians destroyed hundred of African cultures, in order
> to use the Africans as slaves and to treat them as property. So
> hateful and evil were the christians that even if the black
> person was to convert to their faith, the christians would still
> treat the black as property. In the majority of cases the
> christians raped the black women, killed the black men, stole
> their culture, and sold the children at auction as property.
> (Encarta Ecnyclopedia, A&E Television, World Book Encyclopedia)
As African Blacks do to this day to their own tribes in what is one of the
largest institutionalized slavery businesses in the history of the world. The
only place in the modern world that Black people cannot be captured and made
into slaves are in the white European countries. In their own native Africa to
this day, slavery is a fact of life and as always rape remains a privilege of
ownership there.
> 10. In Salem, Massachusetts the christians, on the word of three
> hysterical girls, hung, and burned men, women and children, for
> being a Pagan... and the christians were known to sing and dance
> as the people died. So many women were hung on one hill that it
> is now called gallows hill. (Encarta Ecnyclopedia, A&E
> Television, World Book Encyclopedia)
The Muslims have often built towers out of the heads of infidels and
heretics. The definition of these terms remains kind of vague with them but
seems to indicate genetic relationships. To this day, men murdering their
wives or daughters over petty mistakes and slights is a dominant feature of
Islamic culture, one that few Islamic men believe to be unusual or inhumane.
Our liberal media rarely reports the truth about these cultures and instead
prefers to portray them as mere lifestyle preferences among peoples of other
nations.
> 11. Until 1950 the christians would not allow, in the United
> States, for the religion of Paganism to be viewed as a legal
> religion. And then, the christians kept up a ten year fight to
> prevent religious freedom from extending to the Pagan community.
> (Encarta Ecnyclopedia, A&E Television, World Book Encyclopedia)
As Pagans did to Christians in prior eras.
> 12. Every single time that any non-christian has run for the
> office of president, the christian movement has set about telling
> lies, about this person, and doing anything in order to prevent
> the person from being elected. As a result of the christian mob
> tactics, there has never been a president in the US who has not
> been white, male, and christian. (Encarta Ecnyclopedia, A&E
> Television, World Book Encyclopedia)
I'm sure Pagans don't slur Christians ... of course not.
> 13. There has not been one single culture in the world that the
> christians have interacted with, whereby the christians did not
> destroy that 'other' culture. (Encarta Ecnyclopedia, A&E
> Television, World Book Encyclopedia)
This is the truth of all successful cultures in the recorded history of
mankind. You either assimilate or perish or win. It has nothing to do with any
particular ideology being any better or worse than any other. It is all about
violence and killing for all of mankind.
The only ideology that seems to differ radically from any of those in all of
civilization is the ideology of libertarianism. It appears to be the only
ideology men have ever invented that dictates individual rights above those of
groups and superorganisms. Libertarian philosophy would seem to be a quantum
leap ahead of all previous political ideas.
> 14. The christians now are telling lies about gays. And, while
> religious freedom exists in the United States, religious freedom
> does not exist for the gay population. The christians will not
> allow gays to practice their religion in peace, with respect.
> According to the christian hate, the gays must submit to the
> christian way of life or be classified as NON-American ... and
> NON-citizens. Thus, if there is really religious freedom, then
> why are the gays not allowed to practice their religion freely?
> (NBC News, CBS News, 60 Minutes, CNN News, New York Times)
Gays are extraordinarily intolerant people and feature in large numbers in
fascist and parafascist political movements. They've had this tendency for
centuries at least.
> 15. It was the christians who said, "... women who work, beat
> their children, abuse their husbands, take drugs, worship satan,
> and are bent on self-destruction...". (Pat Robertson, 700 Club)
> Those words are lies. (Channel 43, WUAB, Cleveland, Ohio) And
> Senator Trent Lott said on national television that "... gays
> were mentally ill ...". (NBC, CBS, CNN). This is a direct lie,
> according to the American Medical Association.
The AMA gave up on making homosexuality an illness because they came to
regard it as an incurable one and they were under much pressure from the
Homo-Nazi brigades. I don't care either way, it is none of my business. But
homosexuality continues to carry a list of accompanying traits that would
under other guises be defined as unhealthy or maladjusted.
> 16. It was the christians who declared war on this nation. The
> religious right has said that they are in a war for the soul of
> America. Thus, the christians are then saying that all other
> faiths do not have the same validity, or the level of freedom
> that the christian faith has. So much for the first
> amendment...! (NBC, CBS, CNN News)
The fundamentalists make me sick with their dirty perversions of the
Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Another group of tyrannical nuts trying
to take control.
> 17. in an interview with Mike Wallace in the 1980's on the
> program "60 Minutes" the leader of the American Baptist Community
> said that their plan was to take over the government and then to
> make all faiths, other than Christian, illegal. (CBS, 60 Minutes)
The usual - religious nuts. Hardly a Christian trait, rather a trait of all
cultures in time. Everybody wants to be the big Hitler and tell everybody what
to do. It is the worst who most desperately want to be the leaders. These
"people" are simply primate genetic wind-up toys on auto-pilot doing as their
genes tell them to. Try to take control and kill everybody who disagrees or
comes from different lineage.
> 18. It is the christians who now attack the gays... the
> christians are telling lies about gays, and saying that the gay
> 'faith' must be stamped out... thereby the christians are showing
> no tolerance, or respect for the religious freedom of gays.
> Thus, religious freedom to the christians, means religion as far
> as the christians can tolerate it. If the christians don't like
> the religion that you practice they will make your life a living
> nighmare... (NBC News, CBS, CNN)
Again, a general disease of religions ... intolerance. Not a uniquely
Christian one at all.
> 19. When anything bad happens in the world, regardless of whether
> the christians had anything to do with it or not... the
> christians rush to find someone to blame... regardless of whether
> that someone had anything to do with it or not. When things go
> well in the world, the christians rush to grab credit for that
> thing, whether the christians had anything to do with that thing
> or not. (World Book Encyclopedia)
Yep, standard behavior for religious nuts.
> 20. Religious freedom in the United States means having christian
> law, christian judges, christian lawmakers, christian rules,
> christian television, christian stores, christian government,
> christian states, christian culture... All other faiths are
> merely tolerated and not looked on as equal by the christians...
> for anyone who does not follow their very narrowminded
> perspective is said to be working for the devil, or is a sinner.
> Thus, anyone who does agree with the christians is made out to be
> less of a human than the christians... by the very nature of how
> the christians worship. (extrapolation, based on the foregoing
> research)
By the very nature of the way mankind "worships." Sorry to bust your jihad
against Christianity driven by the same kind of hatred and intolerance as
their own jihads. So-and-so is completely evil and a child of Satan ... but
we are all light and sweetness and ultimate goodness.
Yeah, right.
> Now the christians come for the gays... they come for me... Next
> they'll be coming for YOU...!
I'd rather have the Christians coming for me than the gays! Easier to sit down
afterwards!
By the way, those people coming for YOU are mental health officials, not
Christians. You can tell by that butterfly net they carry around with them and
that funny looking white dinner jacket.
George Conklin
OrionCA <ori...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>On 13 Aug 1998 04:15:03 -0400, hen...@nina.pagesz.net (George Conklin)
>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Every one of the above lies has been refuted so soundly
>>over the past two years no one with one ounce of self-worth
>>could possibly post such trash.
>
>Translation: He yells good and loud everytime these facts are
>presented in hopes of drowning them out. Sorry, old bean: Every
>charge is true. You just didn't want to BELIEVE it when these were
>posted before.
Actually those 'facts' you post have been soundly refuted
years go. Foe example, the fact that a vet uses a MRI
machine from midnight to 3 AM when otherwise it is closed
down for the night has zero to do with the quality of health
care in a nation. The same thing happens in the USA.
vpa...@iastate.edu
: OrionCA (ori...@earthlink.net) wrote:
: : Europe...that's where you wait 6 months to see a specialist,
: Only if you rely on lowest tier, public-only funded clinics.
: Most places have additional private insurance to see higher
: priced doctors. Providing some level of insurance does not
: mean providing it entirely, and the health services remain
: private.
Gary, do you have some ideas of what the real "waiting lists" for purely
public insurance in the G7 are really like? I can't believe the
previous posters assertions are in any way realistic for citizens of the
wealthier European nations like Britain, France, Germany or Sweden,
although they might be true for cases like Turkey or Spain.
: : in Britain once you are over 55 you are no longer eligible
: : for dialysis treatment?
: If you rely solely on their National Health Service, in some
: areas you'll be priority queued if demand is too high. But
: if you have additional private insurance, you're fine. It's
: unequal, but isn't that what some of you like?
The other intersting tidbit to this (according to the July 4, 1998 issue
of The Economist) is that only ~11% of Brits even *have* supplemental
private coverage. What's particularly telling is that this number has
been essentially the same since two-tier medicine was introduced in the
UK. You'd think that if the NHS was crumbling, much more folks would be
on the BUPA bandwaggon :)
: : That every year cuts the # of hospital beds available?
: Otherwise, keeping unused beds on call with corporate welfare?
Furthermore, since the Canadian Federal Government has a budget surplus
coming in *this* year (without the American problem of large unfunded
public pension liabilities in the near future)..."The era of budget-cuts
is over." The Canadian Finance and health ministers have recently been
falling over themselves in a rush as to how (federally or provincially)
medicare re-funding will take place.
: : That shuts down hospitals and clinics the last 2-3 weeks of the fiscal
: : year because they never have enough money to keep the doors open?
: Never happened. Find us a reference from any Canadian papers
: online: www.globeandmail.ca, www.thestar.ca, montrealgazette.com
: or www.canoe.ca, for starters.
I think the hospital "closure" remarks came from the Rush Limbaugh TV
propaganda show a few years ago during the ClintonCare "debate". How
anyone can think that any province could actually shut down all the
hospitals for more than 3 hours...let alone 3 weeks...and not be liable
for the deaths of hundreds (the hippocratic oath's universal, folks), is
beyond the reach of the "ultraliberal Canadain media elites" -)
Vic
George Conklin
>Gary L. Dare (g...@ripco.com) wrote:
>The other intersting tidbit to this (according to the July 4, 1998 issue
>of The Economist) is that only ~11% of Brits even *have* supplemental
>private coverage.
They don't need it. The supplemental insurance is for
convenience, not necessity. If you want your hernia
operation on a specific day on a specific month, then you
get private insurance.
Ford
>In article <6qn2fg$1g0$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, cl...@ans.com.au wrote:
>
>> The poor pitiful little commie Brits are a lot like the Australians ... the
>> tidal wave of American prosperity lifts all boats, even leaky crappy little
>> garbage barges. The socialist countries, lame hobbled cripples crawling
>> towards bankruptcy, get their carcasses floated off the rocks by the enormous
>> wall of water and they immediately begin claiming victory for Karl Marx. Get
>> a grip!
>
>
>And all of these poor unfortunate souls in the UK, Australia, western
>Europe, and Canada can go see the doctor of their choice, thanks to their
>national health plans. Is that true here the free-market utopia of American
>health insurance?
>
>--Stan
>
>If we let HMOs run the post office, 43 million Americans wouldn't get any mail.
True indeed. The health insurance oligopoly didn't spend millions on
Harry and Louise and lobbying Congress for nothing. And they continue
to laugh all the way to the bank.
Ford
"If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want
it caught and shot, now." Z. Beeblebrox
George Conklin
deny your claim could be used to provide universal health
care coverage. We spend the money for universal care, but
give ourselves headaches in place of coverage.
Linus Zimmerman
Ford <gar...@gte.net> wrote in article <35d7d8c...@news.alt.net>...
> On Wed, 12 Aug 1998 10:07:07 -0400, ive...@utk.edu (Stan) wrote:
>
> >In article <6qn2fg$1g0$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, cl...@ans.com.au wrote:
> >
> >> The poor pitiful little commie Brits are a lot like the Australians
.. the
> >> tidal wave of American prosperity lifts all boats, even leaky crappy
little
> >> garbage barges. The socialist countries, lame hobbled cripples
crawling
> >> towards bankruptcy, get their carcasses floated off the rocks by the
enormous
> >> wall of water and they immediately begin claiming victory for Karl
Marx. Get
> >> a grip!
> >
> >
> >And all of these poor unfortunate souls in the UK, Australia, western
> >Europe, and Canada can go see the doctor of their choice, thanks to
their
> >national health plans. Is that true here the free-market utopia of
American
> >health insurance?
LZ: I've talked to a LOT of Canadians and a few Brits; so far none I've
talked to are happy with their health care situation.
> >
> >--Stan
> >
> >If we let HMOs run the post office, 43 million Americans wouldn't get
any mail.
>
> True indeed. The health insurance oligopoly didn't spend millions on
> Harry and Louise and lobbying Congress for nothing. And they continue
> to laugh all the way to the bank.
>
Marcio V. Pinheiro
wrote:
>In article <35d7d8c...@news.alt.net>, Ford <gar...@gte.net> wrote:
>>On Wed, 12 Aug 1998 10:07:07 -0400, ive...@utk.edu (Stan) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <6qn2fg$1g0$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, cl...@ans.com.au wrote:
>>>
>>>> The poor pitiful little commie Brits are a lot like the Australians ... the
>>>> tidal wave of American prosperity lifts all boats, even leaky crappy little
>>>> garbage barges. The socialist countries, lame hobbled cripples crawling
>>>> towards bankruptcy, get their carcasses floated off the rocks by the enormous
>>>> wall of water and they immediately begin claiming victory for Karl Marx. Get
>>>> a grip!
>>>
>>>
>>>And all of these poor unfortunate souls in the UK, Australia, western
>>>Europe, and Canada can go see the doctor of their choice, thanks to their
>>>national health plans. Is that true here the free-market utopia of American
>>>health insurance?
>>>
>>>--Stan
>>>
>>>If we let HMOs run the post office, 43 million Americans wouldn't get any mail.
>>
>>True indeed. The health insurance oligopoly didn't spend millions on
>>Harry and Louise and lobbying Congress for nothing. And they continue
>>to laugh all the way to the bank.
>>
> The excess number of clerks we have whose sole job is to
>deny your claim could be used to provide universal health
>care coverage. We spend the money for universal care, but
>give ourselves headaches in place of coverage.
>
>
George...you hit the nail in the head. So simple!
mv...@ix.netcom.com
http://www.netcom.com/~mvp1/soloproviders1.htm
The friendly folks at toxic
>
> Michael Beck wrote:
>
> > Higher suicide rate.
>
> And the US has an incredibly higher murder rate.
The high suicide rate has a lot to do with having a so much
darkness...us humans are diurnal creatures..so it's geography, not
politics that cause it.
>
> > Lower standard of living.
> >
>
> Absolutely not. The Dutch standard of living is much higher than ours.
And Amsterdam...woohooo
>
> >