#Senate Votes to Open Health Care Debate
5279 Dead, 412 since 1/20/09
[No matter what happens, remember that not one single cowardly Republican
dirtbag even wanted to consider DEBATING the issue]
Senate Votes to Open Health Care Debate
By DAVID M. HERSZENHORN and ROBERT PEAR
Published: November 21, 2009
WASHINGTON — The Senate voted on Saturday to begin full debate on major
health care legislation, propelling President Obama’s top domestic
initiative over a crucial, preliminary hurdle in a formidable display of
muscle-flexing by the Democratic majority.
“Tonight we have the opportunity, the historic opportunity to reform
health care once and for all,” said Senator Max Baucus, Democrat of
Montana, and a chief architect of the legislation. “History is knocking
on the door. Let’s open it. Let’s begin the debate.”
The 60-to-39 vote, along party lines, clears the way for weeks of rowdy
floor proceedings that will begin after Thanksgiving and last through
much of December. But even as the Democrats succeeded in uniting their
caucus by winning over the last two holdouts, big disagreements remained,
making final approval of the bill far from certain.
Two reluctant Democratic senators, Mary L. Landrieu of Louisiana and
Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas, warned that their support for a motion to
open debate did not guarantee that they would ultimately vote for the
bill. Their remarks echoed previous comments by several other senators,
including Ben Nelson, Democrat of Nebraska, and Joseph I. Lieberman,
independent of Connecticut.
Those comments made clear that more horse-trading lies ahead and that
major changes might be required if the bill is to be approved. And it
suggested that the Senate majority leader, Harry Reid of Nevada, who
relied only on members aligned with his party to bring the bill to the
floor, may yet have to sway one or more Republicans to his side to get
the bill adopted.
The Senate Republican leader, Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, said his
party’s opposition would persist. “The battle has just begun,” he said.
In a rare ceremonial gesture reserved for major votes, senators cast
their yeas and nays from their desks in the chamber, each one rising to
voice his or her position. Senator George V. Voinovich, Republican of
Ohio, was not present and did not vote.
The White House issued a statement praising the vote. “The President is
gratified that the Senate has acted to begin consideration of health
insurance reform legislation,” press secretary Robert Gibbs said, adding
that President Obama “looks forward to a thorough and productive debate.”
Mrs. Lincoln, who faces a tough re-election campaign next year and has in
recent weeks been the target of millions of dollars in television
advertising by both sides in the health care fight, said pointedly that
she would not vote for the measure if it retained a government-run health
insurance plan, known as the public option, to compete with private
insurers.
“Although I don’t agree with everything in this bill, I believe it is
more important that we begin debate on how to improve the health care
system for all Americans,” said Mrs. Lincoln, who was the last
uncommitted Democrat, and whose speech, at about 2:30 p.m. Saturday,
lifted a cloud of suspense that had hovered around the Capitol.
She added: “But let me be perfectly clear. I am opposed to a new
government-administered health care plan as a part of comprehensive
health insurance reform, and I will not vote in favor of the proposal
that has been introduced by leader Reid as it is written.”
Ms. Landrieu, whose support came after she won a provision that could be
worth more than $100 million in additional federal aid for her
financially troubled state, said, “I have decided there are enough
significant reforms and safeguards in this bill to move forward, but much
more work needs to be done.”
A parade of Democrats and Republicans spent Saturday laying out their
arguments for and against the bill in floor speeches.
“Last year 750,000 Americans filed bankruptcy,” Mr. Reid said in opening
the debate. “Over half of those bankruptcies were because of medical
expenses. Over half of the people who filed bankruptcy because of medical
expenses had health insurance. Don’t we need to do something on health
insurance reform? Of course we do.”
With the Democrats nominally controlling 60 votes — the precise number
needed to overcome the Republican attempt to stop the bill — the vote on
Saturday evening was the biggest test yet of the Democrats’ resolve and
of Mr. Reid’s ability to unite his fragile caucus. Mr. Reid faces a tough
re-election fight next year.
The health care bill pushed by Mr. Reid seeks to extend health benefits
to roughly 31 million Americans who are now uninsured, at a cost of $848
billion over 10 years.
It would do so by broadly expanding Medicaid, the federal-state insurance
program for low-income people, and by providing subsidies to help
moderate-income people buy either private insurance or coverage under a
new government-run plan, the public option. And it would impose a
requirement that nearly all Americans obtain insurance or pay monetary
penalties for failing to do so.
According to the Congressional Budget Office, the cost of the legislation
would be more than offset by new taxes and fees and reductions in
government spending, so that the bill would reduce future federal budget
deficits by $130 billion through 2019.
The House earlier this month approved its health care bill by 220 to 215,
with just one Republican voting in favor. That measure is broadly similar
to the Senate legislation, but there are some major differences that
would have to be resolved before a bill could reach Mr. Obama, and that
would almost surely push the process into next year.
--
Slavery: The belief that people can be property
Corporatism: The belief that property can be people.
Dänk 1010011010
wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/22/health/policy/22health.html?hp
>
> [No matter what happens, remember that not one single cowardly Republican
> dirtbag even wanted to consider DEBATING the issue]
There won't be any debate, just a short period of time where they will
stuff the 2000-page bill with another thousand pages of pork before
rubberstamping it.
And why would Democrats bother to debate their own legislation, when
they didn't hesitate to rubberstamp the Republican-sponsored bank
bailout bill?
Foxtrot
>http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/22/health/policy/22health.html?hp
>
>[No matter what happens, remember that not one single cowardly Republican
>dirtbag even wanted to consider DEBATING the issue]
That's right. Next year the taxes kick in but the benefits don't begin
for several years. We'll see how voters like paying for nothing.
Even widely respected inside-the-beltway columnist David Broder
says RationCare is a "budget buster".
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/20/AR2009112002618_pf.html
>WASHINGTON � The Senate voted on Saturday to begin full debate on major
>health care legislation, propelling President Obama�s top domestic
>initiative over a crucial, preliminary hurdle in a formidable display of
>muscle-flexing by the Democratic majority.
>
>�Tonight we have the opportunity, the historic opportunity to reform
>health care once and for all,� said Senator Max Baucus, Democrat of
>Montana, and a chief architect of the legislation. �History is knocking
>on the door. Let�s open it. Let�s begin the debate.�
>
>The 60-to-39 vote, along party lines, clears the way for weeks of rowdy
>floor proceedings that will begin after Thanksgiving and last through
>much of December. But even as the Democrats succeeded in uniting their
>caucus by winning over the last two holdouts, big disagreements remained,
>making final approval of the bill far from certain.
Gimme a break. We all know Dems will lie, cheat and steal to jam
this socialist stinkbomb down our throats. The fix is in.
>The Senate Republican leader, Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, said his
>party�s opposition would persist. �The battle has just begun,� he said.
Go Mitch go. We know Dems will ultimately pass this legislative turd.
But throw every parliamentary gimmick you can. Give us ammo to use
against them in upcoming elections.
>According to the Congressional Budget Office, the cost of the legislation
>would be more than offset by new taxes and fees and reductions in
>government spending, so that the bill would reduce future federal budget
>deficits by $130 billion through 2019.
Horseshit. Broder tactfully explains what a scam it is and how they're
cooking the books. The public will see what a ripoff RationCare is. And
they'll see the "D" next to each power whore who forced it on us.
Kevin Cunningham
Every time a vote rolls around the wise repugs claim that they will
win this one. And you go ahead and lose. How many time have you lost
house and senate vote? How many times have you gotten slapped around
in special elections?
Beginning to get the idea that no one wants you and no one cares about
your problems?
Kevin Cunningham
> "5279 Dead, 412 since 1/20/09" <d...@dead.com> wrote:
>
> >http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/22/health/policy/22health.html?hp
>
> >[No matter what happens, remember that not one single cowardly Republican
> >dirtbag even wanted to consider DEBATING the issue]
>
> That's right. Next year the taxes kick in but the benefits don't begin
> for several years. We'll see how voters like paying for nothing.
>
> Even widely respected inside-the-beltway columnist David Broder
> says RationCare is a "budget buster".
>
Thirty six million uninsured. Tens of millions of under insured.
Number 28 in world rankings. Beneath every European country and
Canada in length of life.
And you repugs have done and want to continue doing nothing.
And by the way, all the countries that have better health care,
provably, have government run health care.
palin@tsniffsniff.net J. Norman Gype
"Foxtrot" <fox...@null.com> wrote in message
news:9g0ig5pbpgdro43qq...@4ax.com...
> "5279 Dead, 412 since 1/20/09" <de...@dead.com> wrote:
>
>>http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/22/health/policy/22health.html?hp
>>
>>[No matter what happens, remember that not one single cowardly Republican
>>dirtbag even wanted to consider DEBATING the issue]
>
> That's right. Next year the taxes kick in but the benefits don't begin
> for several years. We'll see how voters like paying for nothing.
You mean like those Bush wars?
> Even widely respected inside-the-beltway columnist David Broder
> says RationCare is a "budget buster".
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/20/AR2009112002618_pf.html
>
>>WASHINGTON - The Senate voted on Saturday to begin full debate on major
5279 Dead, 412 since 1/20/09
If anything, you're understating it. 37th in the world, just above
Cuba. 45 million uninsured. Trail Japan in life expectancy by SIX
YEARS.
Foxtrot
>Foxtrot <foxt...@null.com> wrote:
>> "5279 Dead, 412 since 1/20/09" <d...@dead.com> wrote:
>>
>> >http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/22/health/policy/22health.html?hp
>>
>> >[No matter what happens, remember that not one single cowardly Republican
>> >dirtbag even wanted to consider DEBATING the issue]
>>
>> That's right. Next year the taxes kick in but the benefits don't begin
>> for several years. We'll see how voters like paying for nothing.
>>
>> Even widely respected inside-the-beltway columnist David Broder
>> says RationCare is a "budget buster".
>> Horseshit. Broder tactfully explains what a scam it is and how they're
>> cooking the books. The public will see what a ripoff RationCare is. And
>> they'll see the "D" next to each power whore who forced it on us.
>
>"Gimme a break. We all know Dems will lie, cheat and steal to jam this
>socialist stinkbomb down our throats. The fix is in."
>
>Thirty six million uninsured. Tens of millions of under insured.
>Number 28 in world rankings. Beneath every European country and
>Canada in length of life.
How many are young and don't want to buy it? How many are only
without it temporarily while they're between jobs? How many are
illegal aliens? In fact Dems are severely bloating the numbers to
justify RationCare.
Let's help the small number of chronically uninsured but not screw
things up for the rest. My proposal for them is a modest second tier
of health care. It'll treat them effectively but cheaper.
>And you repugs have done and want to continue doing nothing.
Straw man. Repub's argument isn't that we should do "nothing".
They don't want to throw out the baby with the bath water like Dems.
>And by the way, all the countries that have better health care,
>provably, have government run health care.
So. Let them wait months for knee replacements in exchange for their
medical utopia.
Gandalf Grey
> Kevin Cunningham <sms...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>Foxtrot <foxt...@null.com> wrote:
>>> "5279 Dead, 412 since 1/20/09" <d...@dead.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/22/health/policy/22health.html?hp
>>>
>>> >[No matter what happens, remember that not one single cowardly
>>> >Republican
>>> >dirtbag even wanted to consider DEBATING the issue]
>>>
>>> That's right. Next year the taxes kick in but the benefits don't begin
>>> for several years. We'll see how voters like paying for nothing.
>>>
>>> Even widely respected inside-the-beltway columnist David Broder
>>> says RationCare is a "budget buster".
>
>>> Horseshit. Broder tactfully explains what a scam it is and how they're
>>> cooking the books. The public will see what a ripoff RationCare is. And
>>> they'll see the "D" next to each power whore who forced it on us.
>>
>>"Gimme a break. We all know Dems will lie, cheat and steal to jam this
>>socialist stinkbomb down our throats. The fix is in."
>>
>>Thirty six million uninsured. Tens of millions of under insured.
>>Number 28 in world rankings. Beneath every European country and
>>Canada in length of life.
>
> How many are young and don't want to buy it? How many are only
> without it temporarily while they're between jobs? How many are
> illegal aliens? In fact Dems are severely bloating the numbers to
> justify RationCare.
We've already got RationCare, Trots. That's par for the course for the
Death Industry you bow down to.
liberal
> Kevin Cunningham <sms...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >Foxtrot <foxt...@null.com> wrote:
> >> "5279 Dead, 412 since 1/20/09" <d...@dead.com> wrote:
>
> >> >http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/22/health/policy/22health.html?hp
>
> >> >[No matter what happens, remember that not one single cowardly Republican
> >> >dirtbag even wanted to consider DEBATING the issue]
>
> >> That's right. Next year the taxes kick in but the benefits don't begin
> >> for several years. We'll see how voters like paying for nothing.
>
> >> Even widely respected inside-the-beltway columnist David Broder
> >> says RationCare is a "budget buster".
> >> Horseshit. Broder tactfully explains what a scam it is and how they're
> >> cooking the books. The public will see what a ripoff RationCare is. And
> >> they'll see the "D" next to each power whore who forced it on us.
>
> >"Gimme a break. We all know Dems will lie, cheat and steal to jam this
> >socialist stinkbomb down our throats. The fix is in."
>
> >Thirty six million uninsured. Tens of millions of under insured.
> >Number 28 in world rankings. Beneath every European country and
> >Canada in length of life.
>
> How many are young and don't want to buy it?
Hmmmm, how many 18 year olds in the Vietnam era didn't want to go to
Vietnam, but reichtards like Bush and Cheney called it patriotic duty?
Christopher Helms
The bad news: It was everything the Democrats could do just to keep
the debate alive. There's no way they're going to get it passed, even
in its current, rotten, pork barreling incarnation. Polluting the bill
with all manner of overpriced, pandering garbage just so they can say
"We passed healthcare reform" is apparently more important to them
than passing actual healthcare reform. They dropped the No More
Monopolies provision, they have diluted the public option until it's
meaningless and they'll probably have to keep draconian anti-abortion
language in it to pacify the southern conservadems. Healthcare
"Reform" at this point isn't worth a bucket of warm spit and they are
going to have to make it even more disgusting in order to buy enough
votes to pass it. Yesterday it cost over a quarter of a billion
dollars just to get Mary Landreiu to vote to keep the debate alive. If
being able to say "We passed healthcare reform!" is so fucking
important to them, they would have been better off doing something
modest but legitimate and useful. They could have snuck it into an
appropriations bill or something instead of constantly trying to
polish this trillion dollar turd, which smells worse with each passing
hour, and telling us what a great job they're doing "helping" us. This
isn't going to help anybody except the usual top 5%, this time those
in the insurance business.
The good news: Karl Roves Permanent Republican Majority is still in
power, it's just that some of the "Republicans" have meaningless D's
next to their names.
Christopher Helms
The very people in Washington telling us how terrible government run
healthcare is, have government run healthcare.
Foxtrot
>Foxtrot <foxt...@null.com> wrote:
>> Kevin Cunningham <sms...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> >Thirty six million uninsured. �Tens of millions of under insured.
>> >Number 28 in world rankings. �Beneath every European country and
>> >Canada in length of life.
>>
>> How many are young and don't want to buy it?
>
>Hmmmm, how many 18 year olds in the Vietnam era didn't want to go to
>Vietnam, but reichtards like Bush and Cheney called it patriotic duty?
WTF? Are you attempting to make an odd analogy to health care? Or
are you going off topic and regurgitating your obsessive mouth foaming
hatred of Bush and Cheney?
Perhaps you should jump to alt.lynch.bush for your ranting.
5279 Dead, 412 since 1/20/09
So do the people who tell us how good it is.
Steve
<de...@dead.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 08:20:52 -0800, J. Norman Gype wrote:
>
>> "Foxtrot" <fox...@null.com> wrote in message
>> news:9g0ig5pbpgdro43qq...@4ax.com...
>>> "5279 Dead, 412 since 1/20/09" <de...@dead.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/22/health/policy/22health.html?hp
>>>>
>>>>[No matter what happens, remember that not one single cowardly
>>>>Republican dirtbag even wanted to consider DEBATING the issue]
>>>
>>> That's right. Next year the taxes kick in but the benefits don't begin
>>> for several years. We'll see how voters like paying for nothing.
>>
>> You mean like those Bush wars?
>
>Or the immense tax cuts for the rich?
>>
<Chuckle> The reason Zepp didn't get a tax cut is because the tax cuts
were in proportion to the taxes paid.
Steve
According to the leftist organizations which include heart attacks,
auto accidents, and obesity in their data...
Dänk 1010011010
> On Nov 21, 9:20 pm, Dänk 1010011010 <dank...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Nov 21, 7:43 pm, "5279 Dead, 412 since 1/20/09" <d...@dead.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > >http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/22/health/policy/22health.html?hp
>
> > > [No matter what happens, remember that not one single cowardly Republican
> > > dirtbag even wanted to consider DEBATING the issue]
>
> > There won't be any debate, just a short period of time where they will
> > stuff the 2000-page bill with another thousand pages of pork before
> > rubberstamping it.
>
> > And why would Democrats bother to debate their own legislation, when
> > they didn't hesitate to rubberstamp the Republican-sponsored bank
> > bailout bill?
>
> The bad news: It was everything the Democrats could do just to keep
> the debate alive. There's no way they're going to get it passed, even
> in its current, rotten, pork barreling incarnation. Polluting the bill
> with all manner of overpriced, pandering garbage just so they can say
> "We passed healthcare reform" is apparently more important to them
After I made my prediction that they would load the bill with pork,
the Democrats added an amendment to increase Medicaid payments to the
state of Louisiana. The reason Louisiana was singled out for this
special treatment is because one of Louisiana's Democrat senators,
Mary Landrieu, was undecided, so her vote was purchased in exchange
for an additional $100 million in Medicaid funding for her state.
I'm sure the other senators now regret their initial support, and will
defect to the uncommitted side until their own states receive similar
payoffs. The Republicans have no principles, and rather be left out
they will eagerly join the Democrats in voting for the bill as long as
their own states get a cut. Expect to see the 2000-page/$1 trillion
bill swell to 5000-pages/$3 trillion in the next few weeks, then the
Politburo will rubberstamp it unanimously without debate. Free pork
for everyone, or as I like to describe it, 'Obama Crack.'
Gandalf Grey
"D�nk 1010011010" <dan...@rocketmail.com> wrote in message
news:d9f2af12-0260-44b1...@y32g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
=====================================
TRANSLATION: WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH! WE COULDN'T STOP THE BILL!
WE COULDN'T STOP THE AMERICAN POLITICAL PROCESS! WE HATE DEMOCRACY!