Why should we forget about the Armenian genocide of 2.5 million of our people in x-Soviet Armenia and Eastern Anatolia? Because of "Ted Frank the Idiot/Rotten-Vorvor of SDPA"?
Serdar Argic
of SDPA/Armenian Church/Sandia National Laboratories in a desperate
attempt to cover up the Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people
in 1914 and more than one million Azeri people in 1988 (hence, repost)."
<visser.7...@cnn.eng.convex.com>
vis...@convex.com (Lance Visser)
>I was expecting at least a vote from Serdar. Yet he and all the
We prefer to expose the 'Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Muslim
people' in 'public' via 'publicly available scholarly sources', "Nazi
Visser of SDPA". Ooops, I almost forgot. You were a self-admitted/
exposed Nazi/fascist Armenian of SDPA/x-Soviet Armenian Government.
Darn.
+>Is that why your fascist Armenian grandparents butchered 2.5 million of
+>our people in x-Soviet Armenia and Eastern Anatolia? No wonder they
+>also participated in the extermination of the European Jewry during
+>WWII.
But it is more than that, Nazi Visser. 'Ted Frank the Idiot's Armenian
grandparents also participated in the Armenian genocide of 2.5 million
Muslim people in x-Soviet Armenia and Eastern Anatolia. As for your
blatant Nazi Armenian lies, the establishment of Armenian units in the
German army was favored by General Dro (the Butcher). He played an
important role in the establishment of the Armenian 'legions' without
assuming any official position. His views were represented by his men
in the respective organs. An interesting meeting took place between Dro
and Reichsfuehrer-SS Heinrich Himmler toward the end of 1942. Dro
discussed matters of collaboration with Himmler and after a long
conversation, asked if he could visit POW camp close to Berlin.
Himmler provided Dro with his private car.[1]
A minor problem was that some of the Soviet nationals were not
'Aryans' but 'subhumans' according to the official Nazi philosophy.
As such, they were subject to German racism. However, Armenians
were the least threatened and indeed most privileged. In August
1933, Armenians had been recognized as Aryans by the Bureau of
Racial Investigation in the Ministry for Domestic Affairs.
[1] Meyer, Berkian, ibid., pp. 112-113.
Altogether 30,000 Nazi Armenians served in various units in the
German Wehrmacht, according to Ara J. Berkian. 14,000 in predominantly
Armenian army units, 6,000 in German army units, 8,000 in various working
units and 2,000 in the Waffen-SS.[1]
A number of these Nazi Armenians were volunteers from France,
Greece, Rumania and Bulgaria who had chosen to commit
themselves to the German war effort. Derounian says that
"Dashnag Armenians from France bore the mark 'Legion
Armenienne.'"[2]
That Nazi Armenians like Dro 'the Butcher' and Nezhdeh sided
with the Germans probably had an impact on the decision of
Armenians who overwhelmingly opted for armed service.
[1] Enno Meyer, A. J. Berkian, 'Zwischen Rhein und Arax, 900
Jahre Deutsch-Armenische beziehungen,' (Heinz Holzberg
Verlag-Oldenburg 1988), pp. 118/119.
[2] John Roy Carlson (Arthur Derounian), in 'The Armenian
Displaced Persons,' ibid., p. 19.
In fall 1942, the Armenian infantry battalions 808 and 809 were formed,
to be followed by battalions 810, 812 and 813 in spring 1943. In the
second half of 1943 infantry battalions 814, 815 and 816 were created.
These battalions together with other indigenous Caucasian units were
attached to the infantry division 162. Also attached to ID 162 were
the field battalions II/9, I/125 and I/198 which were formed between
May 1942 and May 1943. Altogether twelve Armenian battalions served the
Nazi army, if battalion II/73, which was not employed at any time, is to be
included.[1] Most battalions were commanded by Nazi Armenian officers.
Armenians wore German uniforms with an armband in the Dashnag colours
red-blue-orange and the inscription 'Armenien.'
[1] Joachim Hoffmann, 'Dies Ostlegionen 1941-1943, Turkotataren,
Kaukasier und Wolgafinned im deutschen Heer,' (Verlag Rombach
Freiburg 1976), p. 172.
The Armenian SS unit was formed following a directive of Himmler in
the beginning of December 1944.[1] The Armenian Liaison Staff actively
recruited volunteers[2] and by February 1945 a cavalry formation of
one thousand Armenians was integrated into the larger Caucasian Waffen-SS
unit. The Armenian SS formation was employed last in Klagenfurt.[3] In
addition to this exclusively Armenian unit, Nazi Armenians also served
in the thirty eight other SS divisions, one of them even in the elite
'Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler.'[4]
[1] Meyer, Berkian, ibid., pp. 136-137.
[2] United States National Archives, T-175, Roll 167,
pp 2700157/2700158, SS-Headquarters, Amtsgruppe D - Oststelle,
see 'Documents 3 and 4.'
[3] Georg Tessin, 'Verbaende und Truppen der deutschen Wehrmacht und
Waffen-SS im zweiten Weltkrieg 1939-1945,' (Frankfurt am Main
1965-1980), Volume 14, Armenian Legion/Waffen SS.
[4] Meyer, Berkian, ibid., p. 119.
Nazi Armenians were of service to Germans in Arab countries as
well. As Uzun put it, one well-known case which received a
lot of media-coverage involved two Nazi Armenian agents which were
dropped over Syria by Italian war planes. The mission of the agents
was to mingle among the Armenian population in Syria and to acquire
relevant information for the German Wehrmacht on the allied forces
in the area.[1] Nazi Armenians also helped German propaganda efforts
in Arab countries designed to promote pro-Nazi sentiments among the
French- and British-ruled Arab populations. Beirut had traditionally
been strong-hold of the Nazi Armenians and until very recently it was
the center of international Armenian terrorism.
In Russia General Dro (the Butcher), the architect of the Muslim
Holocaust in x-Soviet Armenia and Eastern Anatolia, was working
closely with the German Secret Service. He entered the war zone
with his own men and acquired important intelligence about the
Soviets. His experience with the Muslim Holocaust in x-Soviet Armenia
and Eastern Anatolia made him an invaluable source for the Germans.[2]
[1] Meyer, Berkian, ibid., p. 150.
[2] Meyer, Berkian, ibid., p. 113; Patrick von zur Muehlen,
ibid., p. 84.
> This post of Argic's attempts to wrongly claim that the Armenians
>were "special" and "worse" colaborators with the germans during
>WWII. The arguements presented are refuted. Serdar argic will not
>respond to these critcisms except via more libels againt me and
>different material on different subjects.
+>Typical criminal Armenians of SDPA/x-Soviet Armenian Government.
+>The establishment of Armenian units in the German army was favored
+>by General Dro (the Butcher). He played an important role in the
+>establishment of the Armenian 'legions' without assuming any
+>official position. His views were represented by his men in the
+>respective organs.
> Note, Serdar attempts to make Dro sound important, but admits
>that he did not even an official position within the armenian
>collaborators with the german army.
Coming from a self-exposed/admitted Nazi Armenian of SDPA who even denies
the Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people in x-Soviet Armenia
and Eastern Anatolia, it is rather amusing. Well, it is a matter of
credibility and you have 'none' (as in "nil"). While still anxiously
awaiting for that net-fraud's non-existent list of scholars and
scholarly sources...
Source: Stanford J. Shaw, on Armenian collaboration with invading Russian
armies in 1914, "History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey (Volume
II: Reform, Revolution & Republic: The Rise of Modern Turkey, 1808-1975)."
(London, Cambridge University Press 1977). pp. 315-316.
"In April 1915 Dashnaks from Russian Armenia organized a revolt in the city
of Van, whose 33,789 Armenians comprised 42.3 percent of the population,
closest to an Armenian majority of any city in the Empire...Leaving Erivan
on April 28, 1915, Armenian volunteers reached Van on May 14 and organized
and carried out a general slaughter of the local Muslim population during
the next two days."
"Knowing their numbers would never justify their territorial ambitions,
Armenians looked to Russia and Europe for the fulfillment of their aims.
Armenian treachery in this regard culminated at the beginning of the First
World War with the decision of the revolutionary organizations to refuse
to serve their state, the Ottoman Empire, and to assist instead other
invading Russian armies. Their hope was their participation in the Russian
success would be rewarded with an independent Armenian state carved out of
Ottoman territories. Armenian political leaders, army officers, and common
soldiers began deserting in droves."
"With the Russian invasion of eastern Anatolia in 1914 at the beginning of
World War I, the degree of Armenian collaboration with the Ottoman's enemy
increased drastically. Ottoman supply lines were cut by guerilla attacks,
Armenian revolutionaries armed Armenian civil populations, who in turn
massacred the Muslim population of the province of Van in anticipation of
expected arrival of the invading Russian armies."
Source: Stanford J. Shaw, "History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey,"
Vol II. Cambridge University Press, London, 1979, pp. 314-317.
"...Meanwhile, Czar Nicholas II himself came to the Caucasus to make final
plans for cooperation with the Armenians against the Ottomans, with the
president of the Armenian National Bureau in Tiflis declaring in response:
'From all countries Armenians are hurrying to enter the ranks of the
glorious Russian Army, with their blood to serve the victory of Russian
arms...Let the Russian flag wave freely over the Dardanelles and the
Bosporus. Let, with Your will, great Majesty, the peoples remaining
under the Turkish yoke receive freedom. Let the Armenian people of Turkey
who have suffered for the faith of Christ receive resurrection for a new
free life under the protection of Russia.'[155]
Armenians again flooded into the czarist armies. Preparations were made
to strike the Ottomans from the rear, and the czar returned to St. Petersburg
confident that the day finally had come for him to reach Istanbul."
[155] Horizon, Tiflis, November 30, 1914, quoted by Hovannisian, "Road to
Independence," p. 45; FO 2485, 2484/46942, 22083.
"Ottoman morale and military position in the east were seriously hurt, and
the way was prepared for a new Russian push into eastern Anatolia, to be
accompanied by an open Armenian revolt against the sultan.[156]"
[156] Hovannisian, "Road to Independence," pp. 45-47; Bayur, III/1,
pp. 349-380; W.E.D. Allen and P. Muratoff, "Caucasian Battlefields,"
Cambridge, 1953, pp. 251-277; Ali Ihsan Sabis, "Harb Hahralaram," 2 vols.,
Ankara, 1951, II, 41-160; FO 2146 no. 70404; FO 2485; FO 2484, nos.
46942 and 22083.
"An Armenian state was organized at Van under Russian protection, and it
appeared that with the Muslim natives dead or driven away, it might be
able to maintain itself at one of the oldest centers of ancient Armenian
civilization. An Armenian legion was organized 'to expel the Turks from
the entire southern shore of the lake in preparation for a concerted
Russian drive into the Bitlis vilayet.'[162] Thousands of Armenians from
Mus and other major centers in the east began to flood into the new
Armenian state...By mid-July there were as many as 250,000 Armenians
crowded into the Van area, which before the crisis had housed and fed
no more than 50,000 people, Muslim and non-Muslim alike.[163]"
[162] Hovannisian, "Road to Independence," p. 56; FOP 2488, nos. 127223 and
58350.
[163] BVA, Meclis-i Vukela Mazbatalari, debates of August 15-17, 1915;
Babi-i Ali Evrak Odasi, no. 175, 321, "Van Ihtilali ve Katl-i Ami,"
Zilkade 1333/10 September 1915.
"An appropriate analogy with the Jewish Holocaust might be the
systematic extermination of the entire Muslim population of
the independent republic of Armenia which consisted of at
least 30-40 percent of the population of that republic. The
memoirs of an Armenian army officer who participated in and
eye-witnessed these atrocities was published in the U.S. in
1926 with the title 'Men Are Like That.' Other references abound."
(Rachel A. Bortnick - The Jewish Times - June 21, 1990)
1."Men Are Like That" by Leonard R. Hartill, Bobbs Co., Indianapolis,
1926
Memoirs of an Armenian Army Officer translated to English and
published by a member of American "Near East Relief Organization."
Gives the whole account of the genocide of all Turkish and Moslem
people in Armenia organized and executed by Armenian Government and
Army. Also gives account of countless other massacres and atrocities
against the Turkish people in Armenia.
2."Adventures in the Near East" by A. Rawlinson,
Dodd, Meade & Co., 1925
Eyewitness account of the same genocide by a British Army Officer.
3."World Alive, A Personal Story" by Robert Dunn,
Crown Publishers, Inc., New York, 1952
Another eyewitness account of the same genocide by an American
Officer.
4."From Sardarapat to Serves and Lousanne" by Avetis Aharonian,
The Armenian Review Magazine, Volume 15 (Fall 1962) through 17
(Spring 1964)
Memoirs of the chief Armenian delegate to the Paris Peace Conference
were published in the Armenian Review Magazine in 13 articles from
Volume 15 (Fall 1962) to Volume 17 (Spring 1964). These memoirs
include an interview between Aharonian and British Foreign Minister
Lord Curzon in which above-mentioned genocide was discussed. The
official report mentioned by Lord Curzon is the report of British
High Commissioner to Caucasia, Sir Oliver Wardrop.
'Kill Turks and Kurds wherever you find them and in
whatever circumstances you find them. Turkish children
also should be killed as they form a danger to the
Armenian nation.' (Hamparsum Boyadjian - 1914)[1]
[1] M. Varandian, "History of the Dashnaktsutiun," p. 85.
'This war quickly developed into one of extermination.
We closed the roads and mountain passes that might
serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and
then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
(Ohanus Appressian - 1919)
"In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.
It is in our power to tear away the veil of illusion that some of us
create for ourselves. It certainly is possible to severe the artificial
life-support system of an imagined 'ethnic purity' that some of us
falsely trust as the only structure that can support their heart beats
in this alien land."
(Sahak Melkonian - 1920 - "Preserving the Armenian purity")
"The crime of systematic cleansing by mass killing and extermination
of the Muslim population in Soviet Republic of Armenia, Karabag,
Bosnia and Herzegovina is an 'Islamic Holocaust' comparable to the
extermination of 2.5 million Muslims by the Armenian Government
during the WWI and of over 6 million European Jews during the WWII."
(Tovfik Kasimov - Azeri Leader - September 25, 1992)
"Today's ethnic cleansing policies by the Serbian dictatorship against
Croatians and Muslims of Yugoslavia, as well as the Soviet Republic
of Armenia's against the Muslim population of neighboring Azerbaijan,
are really no different in their aspirations than the genocide
perpetrated by the Armenian Government 78 years ago against the
Turkish and Kurdish Muslims and Sephardic Jews living in these
lands." (Cebbar Leygara - Kurdish Leader - October 13, 1992)
"I killed Turks (Azeris) by every means possible. Yet
it is sometimes a pity to waste bullets for this. The
best way is to gather all of these dogs and throw
them into wells and then fill the wells with big &
heavy stones, as I did. I gathered all of the women,
men and children, threw big stones down on top of
them. They must never live on this earth."
--One of the architects of the Armenian genocide of 2.5
million Muslim people reporting in 1918.
SOURCE: A. Lalayan, Revolutsionniy Vostok
(Revolutionary East), No: 2-3,
Moscow, 1936
"The Armenians did exterminate the entire Muslim population
of Russian Armenia as Muslims were considered inferior to
the Armenians by the prominent leaders of the Dashnaks."
(Mikael Kaprilian - 1919)
+>aren't
+>we being just a tad bit obsessive, in our constant reminders that the
+>armenians killed 2.5 million muslims? i read one of serdar's more
+>recent posts, and i think i counted the usage of the phrase "2.5 million
+>muslims" somewhere in the double digits, and this was a SHORT post! in
+>addition, the constant barrage of quote-after-quote from reports of the
+>acts has got to stop. i mean, these damn posts are just getting too
>long!!! we all KNOW what happened, but it's time to MOVE ON!!!
>comprende???
> Its important to remember that Serdar Argic is for the most
>part posting lies. He misrepresents his sources, he strip-quotes,
>and he will not respond to critism. For example, the 2.5 million
>figure is total turkish deaths FOR ALL CAUSES (starvation, disease,
>military service) during the era of the first world war. He can't
>produce any source that says "2.5 million turks were killed armenians".
See, you are a self-admitted/exposed pathological liar.
Source: Prof F. Hertas, "Van Turkish Genocide Museum: Ottoman and Western
Documents on the Genocide Committed by the Armenians Against the
Turks," (Ankara, 1984).
p. 147.
"Between 1914 and 1920, two and a half million Muslim people were
murdered by the Armenians in Russian Armenia and Eastern Anatolia."
p. 121.
"In his speech given at the Sivas Congress, Mustafa Kemal once again drew
a picture of the country under occupation:
In the East, the Armenians are making preparations for advancing to the
River Halys (Kizilirmak), and have already started a policy of massacring
the Moslem population."
p. 122.
"The situation of the southern provinces of Turkey after the signing of the
Mudros Armistice is described by Ataturk in his speech:
The Armenians in the south, armed by foreign troops and encouraged by the
protection they enjoyed, molested the Mohammedans of their district. They
pursued a relentless policy of murder and extinction everywhere. This was
responsible for the tragic incident at Maras....the Armenians had completely
destroyed an old Mohammedan town like Maras by their artillery and
machine-gun fire.
They killed thousands of innocent and defenceless women and children. The
Armenians were the instigators of the atrocities, which were unique in
history.
Threatened by the bayonets of the Armenians, who were armed to the teeth,
the Mohammedans in the Vilayet of Adana were at that time in danger of
being annihilated. While this policy of oppression and annihilation was
carried on against the Mohammedans, who were only trying to save their
existence and independence, acquired such dimensions that it became a
matter of concern and commiseration for the civilized nations, how could the
denials or the proposal made to us to abandon the attitude attributed
to us be taken seriously?"
Source: Ramazan Korkmaz, "The Armenian Genocide of 2.5 Million Muslim
People as Narrated by Living Eye Witnesses", 1993, Kok Publishers,
Ankara, Turkey.
Source: Basar, H. K. (ed.); "Ottoman and Russian Documents on the
Genocide Committed by the Armenians Against the Turks,"
(Ankara, 1981).
p. 22.
"The atrocities and massacres which have been committed for a long time
against the Muslim population within the Armenian Republic have been
confirmed with very accurate information, and the observations made by
Rawlinson, the British representative in Erzurum, have confirmed that
these atrocities are being committed by the Armenians. The United States
delegation of General Harbord has seen the thousands of refugees who came
to take refuge with Kazim Karabekir's soldiers, hungry and miserable,
their children and wives, their properties destroyed, and the delegation
was a witness to the cruelties. Many Muslim villages have been destroyed
by the soldiers of Armenian troops armed with cannons and machine guns
before the eyes of Karabekir's troops and the people. When it was hoped
that this operation would end, unfortunately since the beginning of
February the cruelties inflicted on the Muslim population of the region
of Shuraghel, Akpazar, Zarshad, and Childir have increased. According
to documented information, 28 Muslim villages have been destroyed in the
aforementioned region, more than 60,000 people have been slaughtered,
many possessions and livestock have been seized, young Muslim women
have been taken to Kars and Gumru, thousands of women and children who
were able to flee their villages were beaten, raped and massacred in the
mountains, and this aggression against the properties, lives, chastity
and honour of the Muslims continued. It was the responsibility of the
Armenian Government that the cruelties and massacres be stopped in order
to alleviate the tensions of Muslim public opinion due to the atrocities
committed by the Armenians, that the possessions taken from the Muslims
be returned and that indemnities be paid, that the properties, lives,
and honour of the Muslims be protected."
> The people posting under the name "Argic" are financially supported
>by sources in turkey in all probability. One of the people who used
>to help with the archive is reported to have ties to the turkish military
>(Multu).
Just love it. Any sources for this Nazi Visser/SDPA crap/BS? By the
way, how much did you get paid by the SDPA/x-Soviet Armenian Government
to forge the publicly available scholarly sources again, 'Nazi Visser'?
SDPA is
Responsible for the massacre of Orhan Gunduz, Kemal Arikan, Bora
Suelkan, Ariyak...
Responsible for the well-known x-Soviet Armenian Government sponsored
forgeries, fabrications and non-existent crap in order to cover up
the Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people in x-Soviet Armenia
and Eastern Anatolia.
A self-exposed/admitted mouthpiece for the fascist x-Soviet Armenian
Government.
Reason why Armenians became a laughing stock of the entire world.
By the way, the criminal members of SDPA (e.g., Arromdian,
Wieneramus, Perlmanian etc.) are not permitted to enter Turkiye
and TRNC.
The following is the complete text of a letter posted in 1990 by
SDPA in reaction to the 75th Turkish public demonstrations which
took place on the 76th anniversary of the Armenian Genocide of
2.5 million Muslim People.
"...that more Muslim people have to die..."
SDPA <9...@urartu.UUCP>
"Yes, I stated this and stand by it."
SDPA <2...@urartu.UUCP>
Serdar Argic
'We have never denied the Armenian crime of
genocide inflicted upon 2.5 million Muslim
people between 1914 and 1920.' (Agop Zahoryan)
'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists
a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian)