Libertarian Paradise
Vendicar Decarian
By Kate Holt
Eyevine photo agency
Please note that the names of the girls interviewed have been changed
to protect their identities.
Faela is 13 and her son Joseph is just under six months old.
Sitting on the dusty ground in Bunia's largest camp for
Internationally Displaced People (IDP), with Joseph in her arms, she talks
about how she ensures that she and her son are fed.
"If I go and see the soldiers at night and sleep with them then they
sometimes give me food, maybe a banana or a cake," she explains.
"I have to do it with them because there is nobody to care, nobody
else to protect Joseph except me. He is all I have and I must look after
him."
Lawlessness
It is a story that might not sound out of place in any part of the
war-ravaged Democratic Republic of Congo but for one thing, the soldiers
Faela is talking about are not the rebel groups who devastated Ituri
Province, in north-eastern DR Congo, during the last four-and-a-half years
of conflict.
They are part of the UN peacekeeping force, Monuc, and are stationed
next to the IDP camp in Bunia on UN orders.
Once a thriving trade town, these days Bunia increasingly resembles a
frontier town from the Wild West. Its businesses are boarded up, and
buildings are half derelict.
The streets are heavily patrolled and everyone scurries home at the
first sign of dusk. Gunfire can be heard nightly, usually between Monuc
soldiers and local militia groups.
Nightly rapes
It is in this semi-lawless situation that Bunia's IDP camp sprang to
life - row upon row of tents, housing 15,000 people, who gathered there
seeking UN protection.
"I came to this camp nearly six months ago when the fighting got bad
in our village," Faela explains.
"Every night the [Congolese militia] soldiers would come to our hut
and make my sisters and I do it with them. We had no choice. If we said 'No'
then they would hurt us.
"Sometimes they put their guns against my chest and sometimes between
my legs. I was really scared."
Scared indeed, scared enough to leave the village where she had been
born and begin the long walk through the jungle to the IDP camp, knowing she
was pregnant by one of the fighters who raped her.
"I had Joseph in the forest," Faela says. "My father cannot help me
any more - he is ashamed of me because I had this baby when I am not
married."
Faela expected to be safe in the IDP camp, instead she discovered that
the shame her father felt had followed her, and in the camp she was shunned
and refused food.
Common problem
Faced with starvation and worried for her son, Faela, along with other
girls in a similar predicament, turned to the Uruguayan and Moroccan Monuc
soldiers stationed directly across from the camp.
"It is easy for us to get to the UN soldiers," Faela explains. "We
climb through the fence when it is dark, sometimes once a night, sometimes
more."
Nor is Faela the only girl to tell such a story. During a five-day
stay in the camp over 30 girls were interviewed, half of whom admitted to
crossing the boundary into the UN.
They say that they too are unmarried with children and must seek help
where they can.
"It is hard to get food sometimes, if you don't have a husband or
someone to fight for you," says 15-year-old Maria.
"The UN soldiers help girls like me, they give us food and things if
we go with them."
Lack of evidence
Dominique McAdams, the head of the UN in Bunia, admitted that there
was a problem.
"I have heard rumours on this issue," she said. "It is pretty clear to
me that sexual violence is taking place in the camp."
Ms McAdams is not the only member of Monuc to be concerned about the
behaviour of their soldiers in Bunia.
Last month the UN announced that it would launch a full investigation
into abuse within the camp.
Yet the gap between the intention to investigate and the reality of
that investigation in Bunia remains large.
"I have requested evidence and proof on this matter, but I have not
received anything from anyone," Ms McAdams said.
UN spokesman in New York, Fred Eckhard said:
"Monuc is committed to completing a full and thorough investigation
into [events at the camp] as a matter of urgency. We will apply all
available sanctions against any personnel found responsible."
Part of the difficulty faced by the UN is that the girls involved
refuse to give evidence against the soldiers.
--
"We must create a <economic> crisis in order to ensure that there is no
alternative to a smaller government." - Bush - Imprimus Magazine 1995.
"We seek to remove resources from the control of the state, thereby starving
it." - International Society for Individual Liberty - NeoCon Libertarian.
"Throughout his term, Bush has implied tax cuts would starve the government,
paying for themselves by causing budget deficits that, in turn, would place
heavy pressure on Congress to lower spending." - Jeff Lemieux - Senior
Economist - Progressive Policy Institute.
"They have an agenda which is to starve the government of revenue. But in
order to get it through, they keep on having to pretend that the tax cuts
are affordable, and so they've been suppressing the likely cost of
everything, including the war on terror." - Paul Krugman - Economist.
Kurt Weber
news:Mo_wc.11633$XY6.1...@read2.cgocable.net...
<SNIP>
You seem to have described an anarchist hellhole, not a libertarian
paradise.
In a libertarian state, a minimal government exists to capture and punish
rapists, murderers, thieves, vandals, kidnappers, etc.
Thank you for making your intellectual dishonesty and willful ignorance
clear.
--
Kurt Weber
k...@armory.com
Bernard Curry
> DR Congo's shameful sex secret
>
> By Kate Holt
> Eyevine photo agency
You impute that the status you describe is an effect of
libertarianism. False, it is a effect of authoritarianism.
Which side are you on? Faela's or that of her father and the
congolese soldiers? They are authoritarian not libertarian.
If _you_ are not libertarian then you _are_ authoritarian.
Better decide sister. If you are not one you are the other.
Bernrd Curry
Men will heal Earth only when liberty heals men.
Bernard Curry
*****************************************************
Email : bc...@ispwest.com
James
"Vendicar Decarian" <V...@Pyro.net> wrote in message
news:Mo_wc.11633$XY6.1...@read2.cgocable.net...
geotek
this stupid takes a slimy troll. Come back when you have an opinion to
defend.
geotek
"Vendicar Decarian" <V...@Pyro.net> wrote in message
news:Mo_wc.11633$XY6.1...@read2.cgocable.net...
michael price
> "Vendicar Decarian" <V...@Pyro.net> wrote in message
> news:Mo_wc.11633$XY6.1...@read2.cgocable.net...
> <SNIP>
>
> You seem to have described an anarchist hellhole, not a libertarian
> paradise.
Except that it isn't even that. It is if anything a multiarchist
situation.
Dez Akin
Vendicar Decarian/Scott Nudds is a troll and has been for years.
Notice all the groups this is cross posted to
(talk.politics.libertarian,sci.environment,talk.environment,alt.politics.libertarian,co.politics,tx.politics)and
the incredibly low information content of the post. Its similar to
posting 'Jesus was a Schizophrenic Con Man' to alt.christnet and
alt.athiesm. Don't feed the trolls.
Lloyd Parker
Bernard Curry <bc...@ispwest.com> wrote:
>>On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 09:55:33 -0400, "Vendicar Decarian" <V...@Pyro.net> wrote:
>
>> DR Congo's shameful sex secret
>>
>> By Kate Holt
>> Eyevine photo agency
>
>You impute that the status you describe is an effect of
>libertarianism. False, it is a effect of authoritarianism.
>
>Which side are you on? Faela's or that of her father and the
>congolese soldiers? They are authoritarian not libertarian.
>
>If _you_ are not libertarian then you _are_ authoritarian.
>
>Better decide sister. If you are not one you are the other.
"If you're not with us, you're against us." Now where have I heard that
recently? Nice company you keep.
Vendicar Decarian
> paradise.
America must be destroyed before Americans can be free...
We libertarians demand the immediate abolition of all government social
programs, welfare, food stamps, etc. For they are a the pure theft of the
money and life of the superior in the support of the inferior.
Those who need social assistance, are parasites who are unworthy of
receiving it.
We Libertarians demand the immediate closure of the SEC, FBI, CIA, DEA, IRS,
CDC, NASA, Energy Department, State Department, Department of the Interior,
Fish and Wildlife service, USGS, USGA, and all other government agencies.
Vendicar Decarian
"James" <jra...@dcr.net> wrote in message
news:dh9xc.1923$Jz6....@fe39.usenetserver.com...
> Are you really that stupid or just pretending?
From the Libertarian Party Platform "... Therefore, we call for
the repeal of all laws that restrict anyone, including
children, from engaging in voluntary exchanges of goods, services,
or information regarding human sexuality, reproduction, birth
control, or related medical or biological technologies.
From the Libertarian Party Platform "... children always have the right
to establish their maturity by assuming administration and protection
of their own rights, ending dependency upon their parents or other
guardians,
and assuming all responsibilities of adulthood."
From the Libertarian party platform "...We also support the repeal of all
laws establishing any
category of crimes applicable to children for which adults
would not be similarly vulnerable, such as curfew, smoking,
and alcoholic beverage laws, and other status offenses."
Vendicar Decarian
"Dez Akin" <dez...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:dd43b4da.04060...@posting.google.com...
Government is brutal thuggery.
Government is pure violence.
Government is pure theft.
Government is pure evil.
Capitalism = freedom.
Totally unregulated Capitalism = pure freedom.
Freedom is of limited availability and like all other commodities must be
distributed and rationed by Market forces.
One dollar purchaes on dollar of freedom.
One dollar one vote.
"By bombing Afghanistan, by killing people who had nothing to do with the
September attacks, George Bush has handed Osama Bin Laden exactly the
victory he
craved - the evidence that Americans don't believe innocent people have a
right
to live if they get in the way of American global ambitions." - Libertarian
Party President - Harry Browne
"Hundreds of millions of people in the Third World already hate the U.S.--
for
bombing Iraq, for interfering in the Middle East, for keeping troops in a
hundred countries, for propping up dictators who support American
policies." -
Libertarian Party President - Harry Browne
King Samuel
> America must be destroyed
FWD: FBI
FWD: RCMP
FWD: INTERPOL
Frank Clarke
wrote:
<ropxc.11913$XY6.1...@read2.cgocable.net>
>Those who need social assistance, are parasites who are unworthy of
>receiving it.
So.... you would forbid the Salvation Army and Catholic Charities
running soup kitchens?
Doesn't sound very 'Libertarian' to me.
(change Arabic number to Roman numeral to email)
Bert Hyman
<V...@Pyro.net> wrote:
> America must be destroyed before Americans can be free...
Says the psychotic Canadian troll.
--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN be...@visi.com
Vendicar Decarian
> On Tue, 8 Jun 2004 16:38:25 -0400, "Vendicar Decarian" <V...@Pyro.net>
> wrote:
> >Those who need social assistance, are parasites who are unworthy of
> >receiving it.
"Frank Clarke" <m5s...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:67kcc0t9jsq156c55...@4ax.com...
> So.... you would forbid the Salvation Army and Catholic Charities
> running soup kitchens?
If inferior fools wish to make themselves hosts for parasites, that is
their concern.
When individuals are made a host to these parasites by government fiat, it
is nothing less than communism.
Vendicar Decarian
"Bert Hyman" <be...@visi.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9502C18487C...@209.98.13.60...
> Says the psychotic Canadian troll.
We will wean the american people from the teat of government through
starvation.
Now that we control the machinery of government watch us destroy it.
America must be destroyed as a nation before Americans can be free.
Vendicar Decarian
Thomas Storm
news:f9KdnfYCA9E...@giganews.com...
> Vendicar Decarian wrote:
> FWD: RCMP
Go mounties! LOL
Thomas Storm
> We will wean the american people from the teat of government through
> starvation.
>
starved to death, right?
Thomas Storm
news:ca4v1j$p91$1...@puck.cc.emory.edu...
> >If _you_ are not libertarian then you _are_ authoritarian.
> >
> >Better decide sister. If you are not one you are the other.
>
> "If you're not with us, you're against us." Now where have I heard that
> recently? Nice company you keep.
I agree. Politics is hardly black-and-white.
Bernard Curry
> lpa...@NOSPAMemory.edu (Lloyd Parker) wrote:
>In article <98d9c05n6hc3dp3h2...@4ax.com>,
> Bernard Curry <bc...@ispwest.com> wrote:
>>>On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 09:55:33 -0400, "Vendicar Decarian" <V...@Pyro.net> wrote:
Snipped.
>>If _you_ are not libertarian then you _are_ authoritarian.
>>
>>Better decide sister. If you are not one you are the other.
>
>"If you're not with us, you're against us." Now where have I heard that
>recently? Nice company you keep.
Seeing things in black and white, i.e. as pairs of
opposites, is the only way we can resolve issues.
Inability to decide between libertarianism (white) and
authoritarianism (black) is what rendered the LP
ineffective.
Most LPists do not oppose authoritarianism. Rather they
oppose totalitarianism. But total what? If you can't see
the opposites you can't decide. LPists don't know what they
oppose. Apparently they can't stand the idea of total
liberty.
It would appear that you and Storm are both LPists.
Bernard Curry
Thomas Storm
news:jrkfc05fa6o69mes1...@4ax.com...
> Seeing things in black and white, i.e. as pairs of
> opposites, is the only way we can resolve issues.
That is utterly false. The idea of, "You're either with us, or you're
against us," is one of the most juvenile arguments. Almost nothing in life
is black-and-white, and those that are usually do not include things that
require much thought.
> Inability to decide between libertarianism (white) and
> authoritarianism (black) is what rendered the LP
> ineffective.
That is not true, either. What rendered the LP ineffective was the fear
instilled in the people by the two major parties. The Republicrats
convinced the American people that small government was the same as anarchy.
Americans are naturally too lazy to research it themselves, therefore, the
LP never gained nearly as much popularity as the Republicrats.
> Most LPists do not oppose authoritarianism. Rather they
> oppose totalitarianism. But total what? If you can't see
> the opposites you can't decide. LPists don't know what they
> oppose. Apparently they can't stand the idea of total
> liberty.
Authoritarianism is commonly the same as totalitarianism. Totalitarianism
is the governance of every aspect of your life by someone other than
yourself. I know exactly what I oppose.
--
Thomas J. Storm
Psalm 110
No, he got it straight. Libertarians believe in child prostitution
with no lowest age of limitation.
Libertarian ORGANIZED CRIME includes the deception of grunt workers
like yourself to accomplish their bidding.
Here are links, valid as of yesterday (June 9, 2004), about how the
VICE-presidential candidate of the Libertarian party, killer David H.
Koch, is part of a Microsoft-AdTI scheme to rape LINUX and Public
Choice of Open Source softwares of value in a smear campaign similar
to the "Tobacco Whitecoats" EPA smear campaign AdTI did in 1993-1994.
Read 'em and weep, you unpaid Koch-Sucker...
Continuing the AdTI expose -- here's more
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/ADTI_Frauds_01.html
http://p4p.blogspot.com/
Alexis de Tocqueville Institution -- The George Mason University
connection -- There was NOTHING "academic" or "scientific" in the
tobacco-EPA reports put out by AdTI. They were political and
selfish-interest (profit first! above integrity) motivated and crafted
deceitfully. Greed is behind the slams on Linux and Open Source,
delivering a gullible public into the Microsoft monopoly clutches, and
leaving them No Free Choice alternatives. It is monopolistic predatory
practices at it's historic worst.
The following names are current AdTI board members or are AdTI-Tobacco
paid science fraud wonks...
In 1993-1994 AdTI assembled a team of the most corrupt people working
in science to obscure the health hazards of smoking and second-hand
smoke from cigarettes. Many of the AdTI team players are still active
to this very day taking huge payments from various dirty industries to
confuse issues and smear the reputations of their opposition. Records
preserved after the great multi-billion-dollar lost federal lawsuit
cases by the tobacco industry are now online exposing the dirty tricks
played in secrecy back then. A network of science-villians was forged
by big-tobacco, and assembled by AdTI into a permanent cancer on
society. AdTI drove the getaway car for corporate serial murderers.
Alexis de Tocqueville Institution, which has often been little more
than a post office box and some fly-by-night rented offices, forever
lost its credibility, forever lost its right to participate in
American dialog, by devoting itself to intentional fraudulent
subversion of the American people.
http://tobaccodocuments.org/ti/TI31749097-9099.html
"Issue Report Environmental Protection Agency's Science", Date: 25 Sep
1993, Length: 3 pages By Jonathan Tolman and Cesar Conda. (Cesar V.
Conda was Alexis de Tocqueville Institution's Executive Director;
Jonathan Tolman was visting fellow of Alexis de Tocqueville
Institution -- this is an AdTI report.)
http://tobaccodocuments.org/lor/92756102-6120.html
"the Epa and the Science of Environmental Tobacco Smoke", Date: 1994
Length: 19 pages (draft of pre-publication report found in Lorillard
Tobacco Company files)
by Dr. S. Fred Singer, Professor of Environmental Sciences (on leave),
University of Virginia, and Senior Fellow Alexis de Tocqueville
Institution, and Mr. Kent Jeffreys, Adjunct Scholar Alexis de
Tocqueville Institution.
http://tobaccodocuments.org/lor/92756807-6876.html
"Science, Economics, and Environmental Policy: A Critical Examination
A Research Report Conducted by the Alexis De Tocqueville Institution"
Date: 11 Aug 1994, Length: 70 pages
Academic Advisory Board -- Dr. Gary Anderson, Professor of Economics,
California State University-Northridge -- Dr. Nancy Bord (Yonge),
Visiting Scholar, The Hoover Institution, Stanford University -- Dr.
Gordon L. Brady, Associate Professor and Director Environmental
Studies, Sweet Briar College -- Dr. Jeffrey Clark, Professor of
Economics, University of Tennessee-Chattanooga -- Dr. Michael Darby,
Professor of Economics, and Director John M. Olin Center for Policy,
University of California, Los Angeles -- Dr. Robert Ekelund, Lowder
Eminent Scholar, Auburn University -- Dr. Michael Gough, Project
Director, Congressional Office of Technology Assessment -- Dr. William
Hazeltine, Environmental Consultant -- Dr. Thomas Hopkins, Gosnell
Professor of Economics, Rochester Institute of Technology -- Dr.
Dwight R. Lee, Ramsey Professor of Economics, University of Georgia --
Dr. Michael Marlow, Professor of Economics, California State
Polytechnic University-San Luis Obispo -- Dr. Thomas Gale Moore,
Senior Fellow The Hoover Institution, Stanford University -- Dr.
Malcolm Ross, Research Mineralogist U.S. Geological Survey -- Dr. S.
Fred Singer Professor Emeritus of Environmental Sciences, University
of Virginia and President Science and Environmental Policy Project
(SEPP) -- Dr. Gerhard Stohrer, Director of Chemical Risk Program,
Science and Environmental Policy Project, and former Department Head
Sloan-Kettering Institute for Cancer Research -- Dr. Mark Thornton,
Professor of Economics Auburn University -- Dr. Robert D. Tollison,
Duncan Black Professor of Economics and Director Center for the Study
of Public Choice, George Mason University -- Dr. Richard Vedder,
Professor of Economics, University of Ohio -- Dr. Richard Wagner,
Professor of Economics and Chairman, Department of Economics, George
Mason University
Author: Kent Jeffreys,
Principal Reviewer: Dr. S. Fred Singer,
Senior Staff and Contributing Associates:
Rachael Applegate, Bruce Bartlett, Merrick Carey, Cesar Conda, Gregory
Fossedal, Dave Juday, Felix Rouse, Aaron Stevens.
http://tobaccodocuments.org/ti/TIMN0339276-9278.html
Tobacco Institute "Communications Efforts September 1988", Date: Sep
1988, Length: 3 pages
Media Tours by Consultants
-- "Social Cost" media tours by George Mason University economists
Robert Tollison and Richard Wagner were launched in September in
Richmond, VA and Tulsa, OK. These tours discuss the Tollison/Wagner.
book, Smoking and the State, and the issues surrounding the misuse of
"social costs." Enclosed you will find the press kit used with the
media and reports on the press generated by the tour.
Robert Tollison and Richard Wagner were corrupt on the day they sat in
on the "impartial peer-review" of "Science, Economics, and
Environmental Policy: A Critical Examination, A Research Report
Conducted by the Alexis De Tocqueville Institution"
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2501254705-4708.html
Proposal for the Organisation of the Whitecoat Project, Date: 22 Feb
1988 (est.), Length: 4 pages
SUMMARY OF THE WHITECOAT PROJECT
The Project is designed to support market-level ETS programmes within
the PM EEMA and EEC markets. The Objectives of these overall ETS
programmes are defined as:-
End Goals:
- Resist and roll back smoking restrictions.
- Restore smoker confidence.
Pre-requisites:
- Reverse scientific and popular misconception that ETS is harmful.
- Restore social acceptability of smoking.
http://tobaccodocuments.org/landman/2023856052-6057.html
The ETS Program for 1991, Date: 1990 (est.), Length: 6 pages
"Science Objectives" were estimated to cost a whopping $16,688,400 and
included "Develop and support activities and research which maintain
the controversy..." about secondhand smoke and "Maintain research
activity...to provide support for our position."
Among the "Science Objectives" were "Develop[ing] and support[ing]
activities and research which maintain the controversy" about tobacco
smoke.
http://tobaccodocuments.org/ti/TIOK0003644.html
Date: 31 Jan 1989, Length: 1 page
Professional fees and expenses paid Dwight Lee and Robert Tollison
$8,421.37. Up to nearly a million dollars per year budget is shared by
a half-dozen "whitecoats" deception agents in Tobacco Institute
budgetary records of this time period.
http://tobaccodocuments.org/ti/TIFL0536080-6087.html
Robert D. Tollison received these check numbers:
page 6:
Cumulative General Ledger the Tobacco Institute Inc. Period Ending
09-30-87
* Robert D. Tollison Check #42538 87-MAR-30 $16,450
* Robert D. Tollison Check #44247 87-MAY-29 $14,075
page 7:
* Robert D. Tollison Check #45160 87-JUL-07 $27,388
* Robert D. Tollison Check #45717 87-JUL-22 $7,750 (Totals paid over 5
months = $65,663.)
Gary Anderson - Tobacco Industry stealth consultant 1988-1996 --
http://tobaccodocuments.org/ti/TIDN0018432-8476.html (Tobacco
Institute) -- http://tobaccodocuments.org/atc/71008079.html (American
Tobacco Company) -- http://tobaccodocuments.org/ti/TIOK0021837-1844.html
(Tobacco Institute) --
http://tobaccodocuments.org/lor/88116221-6224.html (Tobacco Institute)
-- http://tobaccodocuments.org/atc/71081376.html (American Tobacco
Company) -- http://tobaccodocuments.org/atc/71081377.html (American
Tobacco Company) -- http://tobaccodocuments.org/lor/86015105-5117.html
(Lorillard Tobacco Company) --
http://tobaccodocuments.org/lor/86015122-5123.html (Lorillard Tobacco
Company) -- http://tobaccodocuments.org/lor/92761030-1042.html
(Lorillard Tobacco Company) --
http://tobaccodocuments.org/ti/TIDN0006954-6958.html (Tobacco
Institute) -- http://tobaccodocuments.org/ti/TIDN0011871-1904.html
(Tobacco Institute) --
http://tobaccodocuments.org/ti/TIDN0005687-5689.html (Tobacco
Institute) -- http://tobaccodocuments.org/ti/TIFL0536332-6369.html
(Tobacco Institute) --
http://tobaccodocuments.org/ti/TIFL0536164-6203.html (Tobacco
Institute) -- http://tobaccodocuments.org/ti/TIFL0538126-8164.html
(Tobacco Institute) --
http://tobaccodocuments.org/ti/TIDN0017394-7432.html (Tobacco
Institute) -- http://tobaccodocuments.org/ti/TI16551799-1815.html The
Tobacco Institute -- http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2074211106.html
(Philip Morris) --
Another CORRUPT link in the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution chain of
frauds -- Gordon Macklin, who was director during WorldCom's
$9,000,000,000.00 stock-manipulations frauds. Macklin did NOTHING
while WorldCom was looted, and he has done NOTHING to stop the
Microsoft-benefits of fraulent Ken Brown-AdTI attacks on
community-created public-spirited software that allows citizens free
choice to escape the Microsoft monopoly on operating systems and
productivity softwares. Brown has been caught telling lies, and it is
Macklin's legal duty to retract Brown's statements, fire Brown, and
apologize to the injured public.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/telecom/2003-06-10-worldcomboard_x.htm
Posted 6/10/2003 10:51 PM Updated 6/11/2003 8:39 AM
WorldCom directors' credibility doubted
By Jim Hopkins and Edward Iwata, USA TODAY
Former WorldCom directors should get the boot from other boards
because their credibility has been so damaged amid the telecom giant's
collapse, say corporate governance experts.
At least five former directors sit on the boards of 15 companies and
non-profits - including such blue-chip outfits as pharmaceutical
powerhouse Wyeth, mutual fund manager Dreyfus and Johns Hopkins
University.
The directors were blasted Monday in two reports detailing events that
drove WorldCom into the USA's biggest bankruptcy filing. They were
criticized for racking up piles of debt, approving multibillion-dollar
deals with little discussion and deferring too often to the very
executives they were supposed to be supervising.
"It severely impairs the personal credibility of the individuals
involved," says Nell Minow of The Corporate Library, a research firm.
Former WorldCom director Gordon Macklin, who was president of the
National Association of Securities Dealers from 1970 to 1987, serves
as a director for at least five companies: Martek Biosciences,
MedImmune, Overstock.com, Spacehab and White Mountains Insurance
Group. (AdTI as of June, 2004.)
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/telecom/2003-06-09-board_x.htm
Posted 6/9/2003 11:04 PM
Report: WorldCom board passive
By Jim Hopkins, USA TODAY
While WorldCom's board did not appear to know about the company's
accounting fraud, it was so passive that it had little chance of
discovering it, an internal WorldCom report charged Monday.
What's more, the board, by allowing former CEO Bernie Ebbers to rule
practically unchecked, created incentives that might have helped spur
the misconduct.
Together, two reports - one internal and one by the bankruptcy court
examiner - blast WorldCom's ex-board like never before.
Instead of guarding investors, they often "rubber-stamped" decisions
by Ebbers and former CFO Scott Sullivan. One unnamed board member
referred to Ebbers as "God," "Jesus Christ," and "Superman," says the
report by bankruptcy examiner Richard Thornburgh. His report is
especially critical in areas that include ...
... WorldCom created a new board as part of a settlement last month
with the Securities and Exchange Commission. In additional to Kellett,
the Thornburgh report mentions former directors James Allen, Judith
Areen, Carl Aycock, Max Bobbitt, Francesco Galesi, Gordon Macklin and
Lawrence Tucker.
http://www.accountancyage.com/News/1131956
WorldCom continues boardroom clearout
By David Rae [18-12-2002]
Six WorldCom directors have resigned in a move which will help sever
all ties with the telecom group's $9bn accounting fraud.
The resignations are part of new chairman and chief executive, Michael
Capellas', pledges to restore standards and integrity at the
beleaguered company.
'These actions show that WorldCom is absolutely committed to
establishing the highest standards of ethics and integrity at all
levels throughout the organisation,' said Capellas. The resignations
follow two New York judges approval of Capellas as the group's new
chairman and chief executive.
The departing directors include former chief executive John Sidgmore
and former chairman Bert Roberts. Both were close allies of former
chief executive Bernie Ebbers and CFO Scott Sullivan.
Other resignations include non-executive directors Carl Aycock, Max
Bobbitt, Francesco Galesi and Gordon Macklin. Judith Areen, another
director, resigned last week.
Oh, there's more... Lots, Lots More! A CRIMINAL CONSPIRACY between
five Microsoft-funded think tanks and publicity organs sharing
personnel, cross-posting fraudulent and LIBELLOUS documents, the
Scaife-Koch funding connections, the George Mason/Inst of Humane
Studies linkages...
Ken Brown
* http://www. digital-law.net/IJCLP/6_2001/authors/brown.html --
Kenneth Brown is the President of the Alexis de Tocqueville
Institution ... has a B.A. in English Literature from George Mason
University.
Christopher Cox
* http://gazette.gmu.e du/articles/index.php?id=4667
* http://www.icasit.org/ecommerce/taxation.html -- ICASIT, The
School of Public Policy, George Mason University
* http://reason.com/9704/ci .bd.death.shtml -- Christopher Cox was
pushing legislation to repeal the estate tax ... Richard Wagner,
chairman of George Mason University's economics department, estimated
that estate taxes
S. Fred Singer
* http://www.sepp.org/bi os/singer/biosfs.html -- distinguished
research professor at George Mason University
* http://www.sepp.org/bio s/singer/cvsfs.html -- Institute for
Humane Studies, at George Mason University 1994-
* http://www.atlasusa.org/highlight_archive/1995/H1995-02-Environment.html<
/A> -- In January 1995, the Science & Environmental Policy Project
moved to Fairfax, joining Atlas, the Institute for Humane Studies, The
Locke Institute, and the Center for Market Processes at "4084
University Drive" near George Mason University. Atlas provided a grant
to IPPS to facilitate the move and help fund the organization during
its first year in Fairfax.
Gary Anderson
* http://econ1.csun.ed u/Economics/FacultyPhotos.htm -- 1987 Ph.D.
George Mason University
* http://www.gmu.edu/centers/publicchoice/alumni.html -- Center
Alumni, 1986, Gary Anderson
Gordon L. Brady
* http://www.iaes.org/jour nal/aej/march_03/ -- George Mason
University
* http://www.mediatransparency.org/search_results/info_on_any_recipien
t.php?413 -- Fellowship Research Grant, Gordon L. Brady, Center for
the Study of Public Choice, Earhart Foundation
Jeffrey Clark
* http://www.law.gmu.edu/faculty/parttime.html -- Faculty
Directory: Part Time Faculty (same one?)
Thomas Hopkins
* http://www.cob.rit.ed u/directory/bio.html?eid=50 -- Dean of the
College of Business at Rochester Institute of Technology, member of
the Advisory Board, Mercatus Center Regulatory Studies Program, George
Mason University.
Dwight R. Lee
* http://www.terry.uga.edu/~ dlee/bio.html -- has had full time
tenured faculty appointments at the University of Colorado, Virginia
Tech University, George Mason University, and the University of
Georgia where he has been the Ramsey Professor of Economics and
Private Enterprise since 1985.
Robert D. Tollison
* http://www.olemiss.edu/depts/economics/btollison/biography.html
-- is the Robert M. Hearin Professor of Economics in the College of
Liberal Arts at the University of Mississippi ... has served on the
faculties at ... George Mason University, ... as Director of the
Center for Study of Public Choice at George Mason (1984-1998). He also
held endowed chair at ... George Mason Universit[y].
Richard Wagner
* http://w ww.gmu.edu/departments/economics/facultybios/wagn.htm
-- Hobart R. Harris Professor of Economics, is the Graduate Director
of the Economics Department, joined the faculty of George Mason
University in 1988, after having held positions ... Auburn University.
* http://www.indep endent.org/tii/tii_info/advisors.html -- Board
of Advisors, Independent Institute
* http://www.limitedgovernm ent.org/wagner.html -- is the Holbert
R. Harris Professor of Economics at George Mason University in
Fairfax, Virginia where he has taught since 1988.
Richard Vedder (Other, not GMU)
* http://www.limitedgovernm ent.org/vedder.html -- National
Academic Advisory Board (with Wagner).
Mark Thornton (Other, not GMU)
* http://www.mises.org/faculty.asp< /A> -- Senior Faculty, Mises
Institute, mtho...@mises.org
Malcolm Ross (SEPP, not GMU)
*
http://www.gswweb.org/mi nutes/GSW1995.htm -- Science and
Environmental Policy Project (SEPP)
* http://www.consumeralert.o rg/info/staff.htm -- Advisory
Council, Consumer Alert
Gerhard Stohrer (SEPP, not GMU)
* http://www.sepp.org/artcomm/ 1994.html -- July, in Chemical &
Engineering News (7/18/94) "A pause on environmental policy," letter
to the editor by Dr. Gerhard Stohrer and Dr. Frederick Seitz, mentions
SEPP.
The Web behind the people behind AdTI's phoney tobacco whitecoats
reports:
Organizations sharing the Institute of Humane Studies address (4084
University Drive, Suite 101, Fairfax, VA)
* http://www.wrlc.org/gmason.htm -- Institute for Humane Studies,
4084 University Drive, Suite 101, Fairfax, VA 22030, (703) 934-6920
* http://www.atlasusa.org/highlight_archive/1995/H1995-02-Environment.html<
/A> -- SEPP/Science & Environmental Policy Project
* http://www.atlasusa.org/directory/institute_profile.php?ref
er=directory&org_id=101 -- Atlas Economic Research Foundation, 4084
University Drive, Suite 103, Fairfax, VA 22030, (703) 934-6969
* http://publi cchoice.info/TullockTales/LibertyFundConf.pdf --
The Locke Institute, 4084 University Drive., Suite 103, Fairfax, VA
22030, 703-934-6934 Fax: 703-934-6927
* http://www.free- 4u.com/koch_summer_fellow_program.htm -- Koch
Summer Fellow Program, 4084 University Drive, Suite 101, Fairfax VA
22030-6812, 703/934-6920 or 800/697-8799, FAX: 703/352-7535
The Moneybags behind the people behind AdTI's phoney tobacco
whitecoats reports
Koch Industries (and Scaife) connections to Institute for Humane
Studies and George Mason University
* http://www.mediatransparency.org/search_results/displ
ay_recipients_by_charles_koch_total.htm -- 1) George Mason University
Foundation, Inc. $14,048,850, 7) George Mason University $1,042,605,
11) Institute for Humane Studies $534,000, 14) Mercatus Center
$400,000, 33) Atlas Economic Research Foundation $40,000, 52) John
Locke Foundation $17,000.
* http://www.mediatransparency.org/search_results/display
_recipients_by_david_koch_total.htm -- 7) Institute for Humane Studies
$2,100,000, 10) George Mason University $1,400,000, 25) George Mason
University Foundation, Inc. $350,000.
* http://www.mediatransparency.org/search_results/display_reci
pients_by_lambe_total.htm -- (KOCH) 3) George Mason University
$2,311,149, 4) George Mason University Foundation, Inc. $2,074,893,
12) Institute for Humane Studies $455,000, 43) Atlas Economic Research
Foundation $28,500, 52) John Locke Foundation $15,000, 54) Alexis de
Tocqueville Institution $12,500.
* http://www.mediatransparency.org/search_results/displ
ay_recipients_by_sarah_scaife_total.htm -- 20) George Mason University
Foundation, Inc. $2,670,000, 41) George Mason University $1,656,000,
70) Atlas Economic Research Foundation $920,000, 96) Institute for
Humane Studies $520,000.
* http://www.mediatransparency.org/search_results/display_r
ecipients_by_carthage_total.htm -- (SCAIFE) 14) Atlas Economic
Research Foundation $855,000, 38) Institute for Humane Studies
$430,000, 116) George Mason University Foundation, Inc. $75,000.
* http://www.theihs.org/ people.php/75934.html -- John Hasnas is
an associate professor of law at George Mason University ... Between
1997 and 1999, Professor Hasnas served as assistant general counsel to
Koch Industries, Inc. in Wichita, Kansas.
* http://www.theihs.org/ pdf/materials/502.pdf
* http://www.kochind .com/newsroom/bio_detail.asp?ID=1 -- Charles
G. Koch, chairman of the Institute for Humane Studies, the Claude R.
Lambe Charitable Foundation and the Charles G. Koch Charitable
Foundation, on the board of the Mercatus Center at George Mason
University, and as a member of the Mont Pelerin Society.
* http://www.philanthropyroundtable.org/magazines/1999-07/staffingup.html
-- The Charles G. Koch Charitable Foundation has announced that Wayne
Gable is the foundation's new president. Currently the managing
director for federal affairs at Koch Industries, Mr. Gable has also
worked as the president of the Center for Market Processes, Tax
Foundation, and Citizens for a Sound Economy. In addition, the
foundation's vice president, Victoria Hughes, will be leaving to
establish the Bill of Rights Institute, a nonprofit organization that
will focus on educating high school students and teachers. Joining the
foundation as vice president will be Kelly Young. Mr. Young has worked
at the Koch Foundation and is currently assistant dean for special
projects at George Mason University School of Law.
* http://bov.gmu.edu/fink.html -- Richard Fink of Centreville is
executive vice president and a member of the board of directors of
Koch Industries, Inc., in Washington, D.C. A member of George Mason's
economics faculty from 1980 to 1986, he was founder and director of
the Center for Market Processes (now part of the Mercatus Center). He
also served as executive vice president for advancement and planning
at George Mason in 1989-90. On the Board of Visitors, Fink is Vice
Chair of the Faculty and Academic Standards Committee and serves on
the Student Affairs Committee. Founder and former president of
Citizens for a Sound Economy in Washington, D.C., Fink is a trustee
and former president of the Charles G. Koch and Claude R. Lambe
charitable foundations, and serves on a number of boards, including
the George Mason University Foundation, the Progressive Policy
Institute, the Institute for Humane Studies, and George Mason's Center
for Study of Public Choice.
* http://www.mercat us.org/people.php/143.html?menuid=1 --
Mercatus Center at George Mason University, Richard Fink
* http://www.iwf.org/ab out_iwf/pfotenhauer.asp -- Independent
Women's Forum President, Nancy Mitchell Pfotenhauer joined IWF in 2001
from Koch Industries, where she was director of the Washington Office.
... holds a bachelor's degree in economics from the University of
Georgia and a Masters of Arts degree in economics from George Mason
University.
* http://tobaccodocu ments.org/pm/2025528294-8299.html -- (1991
estimated date) Candace Crandall Executive Vice President of the
Science and Environmental Policy Project (SEPP). SEPP will co-sponsor
a conference with George Mason University in May on scientific
integrity in the political process. Crandall has arranged for a number
of prominent scientists to be participants, including Dr. Bernard
Davis of Harvard University and Sir William Mitchell of Oxford
University. Crandall is Dr. Fred Singer's wife.
Courageous
> Libertarians believe in child prostitution
>with no lowest age of limitation.
You are either stupid or a liar; neither one is particularly
complimentary.
C//
Bernard Curry
>"Thomas Storm" <us...@network.net> wrote:
>Authoritarianism is commonly the same as totalitarianism. Totalitarianism
>is the governance of every aspect of your life by someone other than
>yourself. I know exactly what I oppose.
Well, despite the emotional, that sounds reasonable. So, if
you so vehemently oppose "the governance of every aspect of
your life by someone other than yourself" then we can agree
that the enforcing of contracts by Government is
authoritarian (if not totalitarian) and no such
"governance" should be done in libertarian society.
Psalm 110
Nope. That's the truth. Rich libertarians want legal acces to buy
little girls and boys for sexual perversions, and they dupe stupid
people like you to engage in unpaid advocacy for "child sexual choice"
and "end to government intrusion" into "private economic activity".
You Koch-Suckers fight to "end regulation" of child molestation --
"let the market regulate", is your battle-cry.
Libertarians are child molestors at heart -- and money is the only god
you worship. Divid H. Koch, 1980 VICE-presidential candidate KILLED
two teen agers by letting the market decide that he didn't need to
inspect his gas pipelines for 11 years. The judge held up a piece of
the exploded pipeline all corroded and said it looked like swiss
cheeze.
Koch polluted six states, so he spends millions in getting jackasses
to fight for "deregulation". Let the market decide if pollution needs
cleaning up, not intrusive government regulatory bureaurocracies --
you jerks argue, on his behalf.
How much do you know about the filthy (I mean FILTHY) rich guys who
made the superfund sites you don't want them to pay to clean up? How
much investigation do you do on these satanic monstors you serve for
free?
Libertarians are divided into two groups: (1) the conniving liars with
all the loot, and (2) knee-jerk robots who march on keyword command by
their masters. Pavlovian dogs, you salivate when you hear the words
"deregulation", "public choice", "free markets" while you betray every
principle of freedom, openness, democracy.
You deserve Koch. I hope you spend eternity with him.
Courageous
>> > Libertarians believe in child prostitution
>> >with no lowest age of limitation.
>> You are either stupid or a liar; neither one is particularly
>> complimentary.
>Nope. That's the truth.
No, it's _not_ the truth.
>Let the market decide if pollution needs
>cleaning up, not ... you jerks argue.
To the contrary, dumping waste is a violation of trespass theory.
If you are unable to discern on your own what constitutes libertarian
thinking, blowing down straw men is not a good strategy. It will
suggest to people that you _lie_.
C//
Vendicar Decarian
"Psalm 110" <Melch...@USA.com> wrote in message
news:2275a3c5.04061...@posting.google.com...
> No, he got it straight. Libertarians believe in child prostitution
> with no lowest age of limitation.
Correct. If rights are a universal characteristic of human existance,
then children, as living humans must have the same rights as adults.
Anything less is wanton slavery.
"Psalm 110" <Melch...@USA.com> wrote in message
news:2275a3c5.04061...@posting.google.com...
> Libertarian ORGANIZED CRIME includes the deception of grunt workers
> like yourself to accomplish their bidding.
WRONG. By definition there can be no Libertarian Organized Crime. In
fact there is NO SUCH THING AS ORGANIZED CRIME.
All Libertarian existance is BY DEFINITION <NOT> CRIMINAL.
By definition, every aspect of socialism is crimnal and pure evil.
"Psalm 110" <Melch...@USA.com> wrote in message
news:2275a3c5.04061...@posting.google.com...
> Here are links, valid as of yesterday (June 9, 2004), about how the
> VICE-presidential candidate of the Libertarian party, killer David H.
> Koch, is part of a Microsoft-AdTI scheme to rape LINUX and Public
> Choice of Open Source softwares of value in a smear campaign similar
> to the "Tobacco Whitecoats" EPA smear campaign AdTI did in 1993-1994.
> Read 'em and weep, you unpaid Koch-Sucker...
Microsoft is a model Corporate Citizen.
Only Socialists are anti-Microsoft - anti Intellectual Property - and
therefore anti intellectual freedom.
There can be no freedom of speech until the right of ownership of ideas
and speech are universally recognized and enforced through force of law.
One Dollar, One Vote.
One Dollar, One Free Word.
Vendicar Decarian
> On 10 Jun 2004 14:42:23 -0700, Melch...@USA.com (Psalm 110) wrote:
> >Libertarians believe in child prostitution
> >with no lowest age of limitation.
"Socialism is a Mental Disease" <root@localhost.> wrote in message
news:vfmhc0h4tph86pq3t...@4ax.com...
> No, we don't, you lying piece of shit!
All Libertarians recognize that the respect of human rights translates to
the respect for children's sexual rights.
It is a fundamental axiom of Libertarianism that all people have the right
to exchange goods and services without restriction as long as they do not
affect the property or rights of others.
This necessarily means that exchanges of money or chickens or a dinner in
return for a sexual service is sanctioned, legal, commerce.
As living humans, children have exactly the same rights in this regard as
adults.
Anything less is a denial of basic human rights, and is equivalent to
slavery.
Posers may claim otherwise.
In time, we will deal with these traitors.
Vendicar Decarian
> >with no lowest age of limitation.
Correct. There can be no age limit on sexual activity as sexual activity is
a fundamental human right, and rights are absolute - stemming from human
existance - rather than granted by government fiat.
Vendicar Decarian
"Psalm 110" <Melch...@USA.com> wrote in message
news:2275a3c5.04061...@posting.google.com...
> little girls and boys for sexual perversions, and they dupe stupid
> people like you to engage in unpaid advocacy for "child sexual choice"
> and "end to government intrusion" into "private economic activity".
> You Koch-Suckers fight to "end regulation" of child molestation --
> "let the market regulate", is your battle-cry.
By definition, there can be no molestation if the parties are willing,
uncoerced participants in a financial transaction.
Age is irrelevant according to Libertarian tenant.
Vendicar Decarian
> "Vendicar Decarian" <V...@Pyro.net> wrote in message
> news:0htxc.11965$XY6.1...@read2.cgocable.net...
> > We will wean the american people from the teat of government through
> > starvation.
"Thomas Storm" <us...@network.net> wrote in message
news:10cff5b...@corp.supernews.com...
> Then all those unemployed will get jobs by burying all the people you've
> starved to death, right?
The inferior should die. Only blood sucking socialists enslave the superior
by giving their life blood (money) to the slovenly inferior masses.
If you want to feed the animals, that's your business. Just keep your
stinking communist hands out of my pockets you filthy bastard.
King Samuel
> The inferior should die.
> Newsgroups:
alt.politics.greens,alt.politics,sci.environment,talk.environment,alt.global-warming
> From: Andrew Langer<Lan...@aol.com>
> References: <I0swb.31631$cJ5....@www.newsranger.com>
<3FC256DA.1070804@nospam_online.no>
> Subject: Re: Vendicar Decarian Is Scott Nudds.
> Lines: 120
> Message-ID: <vntwb.31692$cJ5....@www.newsranger.com>
> X-Abuse-Info: When contacting newsranger.com regarding abuse please
> X-Abuse-Info: forward the entire news article including headers or
> X-Abuse-Info: else we will not be able to process your request
> X-Complaints-To: ab...@newsranger.com
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 14:56:11 EST
> Organization: http://www.newsranger.com
> Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 19:56:11 GMT
>
>
> In article <3FC256DA.1070804@nospam_online.no>, Vito De Lucia says...
>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> so what? :-)
>
>
> Just do a search for "Scott Nudds" and troll on Google.
>
>
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%22Scott+Nudds%22+troll
>
> Or do a search for "Scott Nudds" and "don't hate me" on Google groups.
>
>
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q=%22Scott%20Nudds%22%20%22Don%27t%20Hate%20Me%22&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&hl=en
>
> You'll quickly find out why I want everyone to know that "Vendicar
Decarian" is,
> in fact, Scott Nudds. Better to expose the trolls for who and what
they are
> early on, so that people will know better than to feed them.
>
> After over a 14 month absence from sci.environment (and all of
usenet, for that
> matter), Scott Nudds has apparently returned.
>
> The poster who is going by the nom d'Usenet "Vendicar Decarian" is,
in fact,
> Scott Nudds. The IP address used by "Vendicar Decarian" is
24.150.149.131. The
> last known e-mails posted by Scott Nudds were under his e-mail address
> "S_Do...@hotmail.com" and pseudonym "Scott Douglas". The IP address of
> S_Do...@hotmail.com was 24.150.149.131. Both were using Cogeco.ca
accounts.
>
> Conclusion: "Vendicar Decarian" is really Scott Nudds.
>
> Proof follows:
>
> Headers of Recent Post by "Vendicar Decarian":
>
> From: "Vendicar Decarian" <V...@Pyro.net>
> Newsgroups:
>
alt.politics.greens,alt.politics,sci.environment,talk.environment,alt.global-warming
> References: <HosFn...@campus-news-reading.utoronto.ca>
> <Izawb.26354$BD3.4...@juliett.dax.net>
<TCcwb.660$dI1....@news.uswest.net>
> Subject: Re: Latest Arctic Sea Ice and Snow Cover
> Lines: 25
> X-Priority: 3
> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
> Message-ID: <Lyiwb.3691$k7.1...@read2.cgocable.net>
> Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 02:42:52 -0500
> NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.150.149.131
> X-Complaints-To: ab...@cogeco.ca
> X-Trace: read2.cgocable.net 1069659435 24.150.149.131 (Mon, 24 Nov
2003 02:37:15
> EST)
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 02:37:15 EST
> Organization: Cogeco Cable
> ---end quoted material---
>
> Headers of post by Scott Nudds, posting as Scott Douglas
> (s_Do...@hotmail.com):
>
> Newsgroups: sci.environment,alt.global-warming
> Subject: Re: Feedback Factors (Clouds) -- Summary
> From: Scott Douglas <s_do...@hotmail.com>
> References: <vie49.1831$Ke2.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
> <Xns926442B07...@216.221.81.119> <3D534379...@adnc.com>
> <mVT49.5453$Ep6.3...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
> <18A14176F31130C0.B9BD46C5...@lp.airnews.net>
> <Xns9267F1805...@216.221.81.119>
> <4494501BFD0E4CB5.A03AFCC5...@lp.airnews.net>
> Organization: Dsoft
> Message-ID: <Xns927625CD4...@216.221.81.119>
> User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25
> Lines: 38
> Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 07:39:27 GMT
> NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.150.149.131
> X-Complaints-To: ab...@cogeco.ca
> X-Trace: read1.cgocable.net 1030347567 24.150.149.131 (Mon, 26 Aug
2002 03:39:27
> EDT)
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 03:39:27 EDT
> ---end quoted material---
>
> Also:
>
> Newsgroups: sci.environment
> From: Andrew Langer<Lan...@aol.com>
> Subject: Truth and Reason, Scott Nudds, Scott Douglas - All the Same
Person
> Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2002 01:38:39 GMT
>
> Subject: Re: Commie Eco-Socialist Attack on the Bourgeoisie
> From: TruthAndReason <TruthAn...@hotmail.com>
> Message-ID: <Xns9282D2CDF7B4...@216.221.81.119>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.150.149.131
> User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25
>
> Subject: Re: Canadian PM Chretien pledges to send Kyoto pact to
Parliament this
> year
> From: scott nudds <s_n...@hotmail.com>
> Message-ID: <Xns9282AE625...@216.221.81.119>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.150.149.131
> User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25
>
> Subject: Re: Environmentalists Want To Save The Forests From Logging
by Burning
> Them
> From: Scott Douglas <s_do...@hotmail.com>
> Message-ID: <Xns927626420...@216.221.81.119>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.150.149.131
> User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25
> ---end message headers---
>
> Same User-Agents, same NNTP Posting Hosts, same location for message ID.
>
> Conclusion: "Truth and Reason" is the same person as
"S_N...@hotmail.com" who
> is the same person as "S_Do...@hotmail.com".
> ---end quoted material---
>
> HTH!
>
> - Andrew Langer
>
> Any posts by Andrew Langer are his own, written by him, for his own
> enjoyment (and the education of others). Unless expressly stated,
> they represent his own views, and not those of any other individuals
> or entities. He is not, nor has he ever been, paid to post here.
>
>
King Samuel
> In time, we will deal with these traitors.
>
> Newsgroups:
King Samuel
There can be no age limit on sexual activity
> Newsgroups:
King Samuel
> By definition, there can be no molestation if the parties are willing,
> Newsgroups:
Courageous
>Correct. There can be no age limit on sexual activity as ...
This is *NOT* correct.
C//
Vendicar Decarian
"King Samuel" <st...@bars.usa> wrote in message
> There can be no age limit on sexual activity
Children own their own bodies. Property rights are absolute.
If you own property you can do with it what you will. If you own a house
you can burn it down. If you own a dog you can torture it or kill it. It
is your property.
From the Libertarian Party Platform "... Therefore, we call for
the repeal of all laws that restrict anyone, including
children, from engaging in voluntary exchanges of goods, services,
or information regarding human sexuality, reproduction, birth
control, or related medical or biological technologies.
From the Libertarian party platform "...We also support the repeal of all
Vendicar Decarian
"Courageous" <dont...@spam.com> wrote in message
news:qeujc0td4s1qkm6rs...@4ax.com...
> This is *NOT* correct.
Children own their own bodies. Property rights are absolute.
If you own property you can do with it what you will. If you own a house
you can burn it down. If you own a dog you can torture it or kill it. It
is your property.
From the Libertarian party platform "...
Vendicar Decarian
> Vendicar Decarian wrote:
> > In time, we will deal with these traitors.
Impeach Bush.
Convict Bush.
Try Bush.
Torture Bush.
Execute Bush.
Vendicar Decarian
> Vendicar Decarian wrote:
> > The inferior should die.
Freedom is of limited availability and like all other commodities must be
distributed and rationed by Market forces.
Thomas Storm
> The inferior should die. Only blood sucking socialists enslave the
superior
I will remember that when you need someone's help.
> by giving their life blood (money) to the slovenly inferior masses.
You consider money to be your "life blood?" That is sad, indeed...
> If you want to feed the animals, that's your business. Just keep your
> stinking communist hands out of my pockets you filthy bastard.
You've never had the slightest inkling to help someone in need? All people
impoverished are not necessarily imporverished of their own accord. Take me
for instance. I don't live off government handouts, but I am living WAY
below the poverty line. I graduated with a Master of Science degree two
years ago, and haven't been able to find a job since. I've been living off
the savings I've spend years building. Am I an animal?
--
Thomas J. Storm
Courageous
>> >Correct. There can be no age limit on sexual activity as ...
>> This is *NOT* correct.
>Children own their own bodies.
[Non sequiturs snipped]
Children have limited rights until the law acknowledges them
as being able to uphold the mantle of responsibility that
comes with being a citizen. Parents likewise have a say in
what rights a child may exercise, with even more restraint
than the law otherwise allows those children. This is because,
amongst other things, the law assigns some responsibility for
the children to the parents, and rightly so.
C//
Thomas Storm
> you worship.
You know nothing of my religions faith.
--
Thomas J. Storm
Thomas Storm
> Well, despite the emotional, that sounds reasonable. So, if
> you so vehemently oppose "the governance of every aspect of
> your life by someone other than yourself" then we can agree
> that the enforcing of contracts by Government is
> authoritarian (if not totalitarian) and no such
> "governance" should be done in libertarian society.
Yes and no. That's another one of those grey areas, where it really depends
on the contract in issue.
--
Thomas J. Storm
Vendicar Decarian
> Vendicar Decarian wrote:
> > By definition, there can be no molestation if the parties are willing,
From the Libertarian Party Platform "... Therefore, we call for
the repeal of all laws that restrict anyone, including
children, from engaging in voluntary exchanges of goods, services,
or information regarding human sexuality, reproduction, birth
control, or related medical or biological technologies.
Vendicar Decarian
> > Libertarians are child molestors at heart -- and money is the only god
> > you worship.
"Thomas Storm" <us...@network.net> wrote in message
news:10ck41k...@corp.supernews.com...
> You know nothing of my religions faith.
Money is the only true God.
Capitalism the only valid Religion.
King Samuel
> "King Samuel" <st...@bars.usa> wrote in message
> news:XrWdnfPTPdR...@giganews.com...
>
>>There can be no age limit on sexual activity
>
>
> Children own their own bodies.
> Newsgroups:
King Samuel
King Samuel
>>Vendicar Decarian wrote:
.
> Torture Bush.
> Execute Bush.
King Samuel
>>Vendicar Decarian wrote:
>>
>>>The inferior should die.
>
>
> Freedom is of limited availability
> Newsgroups:
King Samuel
>
>>>Libertarians are child molestors at heart -- and money is the only god
>>>you worship.
>
>
> "Thomas Storm" <us...@network.net> wrote in message
> news:10ck41k...@corp.supernews.com...
>
>>You know nothing of my religions faith.
>
>
> Money is the only true God.
> Newsgroups:
Vendicar Decarian
> Take me
> for instance. I don't live off government handouts, but I am living WAY
> below the poverty line. I graduated with a Master of Science degree two
> years ago, and haven't been able to find a job since. I've been living
off
> the savings I've spend years building. Am I an animal?
Get off your fat ass and get a job you socialist loser.
Government Funded education has clearly destroyed your economic prospects.
Perhaps you should be digging ditches.
Vendicar Decarian
Vendicar Decarian
Vendicar Decarian
Vendicar Decarian
Vendicar Decarian
Vote Libertarian
Hugo S. Cunningham
wrote:
>Children own their own bodies. Property rights are absolute.
Should a 4-year-old be able to sell his inheritance for a lollypop?
--Hugo S. Cunningham
King Samuel
SPAM
24.150.149.131 = [ d150-149-131.home.cgocable.net ]
OrgName: Cogeco Cable Inc.
OrgID: CGOC
Address: PO Box 5076 Stn. Main
Address: 950 Syscon Road
City: Burlington
StateProv: ON
PostalCode: L7R-4S6
Country: CA
NetRange: 24.150.0.0 - 24.150.255.255
CIDR: 24.150.0.0/16
NetName: CGOC-2BLK
NetHandle: NET-24-150-0-0-1
Parent: NET-24-0-0-0-0
NetType: Direct Allocation
NameServer: NS5.CGOCABLE.NET
NameServer: NS6.CGOCABLE.NET
Comment:
RegDate: 1999-11-29
Updated: 2003-09-23
TechHandle: IS7-ORG-ARIN
TechName: Cogeco Cable
TechPhone: 1-905-333-7055
TechEmail: ipser...@cogeco.net
OrgAbuseHandle: INTER3-ARIN
OrgAbuseName: Abuse and Security
OrgAbusePhone: 1-905-333-5343
OrgAbuseEmail: secu...@cogeco.net
OrgTechHandle: INS2-ARIN
OrgTechName: IP Network Service
OrgTechPhone: 1-905-333-7055
OrgTechEmail: ipser...@cogeco.net
CustName: Cogeco Cable Solutions
Address: 950 Syscon Drive
City: Burlington
StateProv: ON
PostalCode: L7R 4S6
Country: CA
RegDate: 2002-01-09
Updated: 2002-01-09
NetRange: 24.150.144.0 - 24.150.159.255
CIDR: 24.150.144.0/20
NetName: CGOC-HALA4-1
NetHandle: NET-24-150-144-0-1
Parent: NET-24-150-0-0-1
NetType: Reassigned
Comment:
RegDate: 2002-01-09
Updated: 2002-01-09
TechHandle: IS7-ORG-ARIN
TechName: Cogeco Cable
TechPhone: 1-905-333-7055
TechEmail: ipser...@cogeco.net
OrgAbuseHandle: INTER3-ARIN
OrgAbuseName: Abuse and Security
OrgAbusePhone: 1-905-333-5343
OrgAbuseEmail: secu...@cogeco.net
OrgTechHandle: INS2-ARIN
OrgTechName: IP Network Service
OrgTechPhone: 1-905-333-7055
OrgTechEmail: ipser...@cogeco.net
King Samuel
King Samuel
King Samuel
SPAMMER
King Samuel
Vendicar Decarian
Vendicar Decarian
Vendicar Decarian
Vendicar Decarian
Vendicar Decarian
> On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:39:20 -0400, "Vendicar Decarian" <V...@Pyro.net>
> wrote:
> >Children own their own bodies. Property rights are absolute.
"Hugo S. Cunningham" <checkw...@cyberussr.com> wrote in message
news:40ca1a3a....@news.surfbestisp.net...
> Should a 4-year-old be able to sell his inheritance for a lollypop?
Of course. Or are you a fucking socialist pig who insists that some nanny
state must exist to protect the citizens from their own bad decisions?
All rights are absolute. Your question, comrad Hugo, indicates that you
think that rights are issued by the state.
Children own their own bodies. Property rights are absolute.
If you own property you can do with it what you will. If you own a house
Courageous
>> Vendicar Decarian wrote:
>> > By definition, there can be no molestation if the parties are willing,
>
>
>From the Libertarian Party Platform...
Libertarianism precedes the LP by _centuries_, and
I assure you, sir, that Libertarianism as a philosophy
holds no truck with those ideas. Stop this ridiculous
slander.
However, I'd like you to source that quote from
this website:
Where is it?
Finally, the quote doesn't say what you want it to
say. It says "...information regarding human sexuality,
reproduction, birth control, or related medical or
biological technologies."
Of all those things named, parents, and only parents
should be in control of those things.
Courageous
>> Should a 4-year-old be able to sell his inheritance for a lollypop?
> Of course.
Children don't have legal capacity.
Only a loon would think differently.
C//
Vendicar Decarian
"Courageous" <dont...@spam.com> wrote in message
news:sdvkc053okbe8g8lb...@4ax.com...
> Libertarianism precedes the LP by _centuries_, and
> I assure you, sir, that Libertarianism as a philosophy
> holds no truck with those ideas. Stop this ridiculous
> slander.
From the Libertarian Party Platform "... Therefore, we call for
the repeal of all laws that restrict anyone, including
children, from engaging in voluntary exchanges of goods, services,
or information regarding human sexuality, reproduction, birth
control, or related medical or biological technologies.
Therefore, we call for the repeal of all laws that restrict anyone,
including children, from engaging in voluntary exchanges of services
regarding human sexuality.
QED.
King Samuel
SPAMMER LEAVE THIS GROUP!
Vendicar Decarian
King Samuel
OFF CHARTER ABUSE TO CO.POLITCS
Vendicar Decarian
Vendicar Decarian
>
> >> Should a 4-year-old be able to sell his inheritance for a lollypop?
>
> > Of course.
"Courageous" <dont...@spam.com> wrote in message
news:4svkc09o8qat81sah...@4ax.com...
> Children don't have legal capacity.
Human rights are not granted by the courts. They are universal, and a
result of human existance.
Your position is that rights are granted by the state. And that is a lie,
and a violation of the libertarian ideals that the founders used to draft
the constitution.
Freedom or death.
Vendicar Decarian
Courageous
> Your position is that rights are granted by the state. And that is a lie,
Rights aren't granted, and you aren't born with them. They are _taken_.
Hence the second amendment, which ought to have been the first, because
pure naked force is the ultimate power from which all rights descend.
Your belief that children ought to have all the rights that adults do,
even though they plainly do NOT (nor are equipped to exercise them),
is the belief of a social retard.
C//
Frank Clarke
wrote:
<10ck48b...@corp.supernews.com>
>"Bernard Curry" <bc...@ispwest.com> wrote in message
>news:vbuhc0lagmvki3vnc...@4ax.com...
>> Well, despite the emotional, that sounds reasonable. So, if
>> you so vehemently oppose "the governance of every aspect of
>> your life by someone other than yourself" then we can agree
>> that the enforcing of contracts by Government is
>> authoritarian (if not totalitarian) and no such
>> "governance" should be done in libertarian society.
>
>Yes and no. That's another one of those grey areas, where it really depends
>on the contract in issue.
Don't be so wishy-washy. We Libertarians propose a system which is
not perfect (but which system is?) It's fair for our opposition to
point out that occasionally someone will get hurt. Staying the
course, however, means that eventually the hurters will be unable to
find anyone to deal with -- no one will sell to them, no one will buy
from them, no one will enter into any sort of contract with them;
possibly no one will even talk to them. That's a frightful penalty to
pay -- worse than going to prison, I think.
In a Libertarian (that is, non-coercive) society, the thought of
living filthy, homeless, and hungry until death catches up to you (the
ultimate death penalty) should convince every sane person to operate
under the Golden Rule. Government, in such a world, is not even
necessary.
Contrast this with the existing situation, where investment fraud can
net you _millions_ after paying some minuscule fines and serving a few
months in the slammer.
(change Arabic number to Roman numeral to email)
King Samuel
> Government, in such a world, is not even
> necessary.
Utopia is such a wonderful concept - I wonder why human nature hasn't
allowed it to flourish?
Lloyd Parker
Didn't someone say if humans were angels, we wouldn't need government?
Bernard Curry
>"Thomas Storm" <us...@network.net> wrote:
>"Bernard Curry" <bc...@ispwest.com> wrote in message
>news:vbuhc0lagmvki3vnc...@4ax.com...
>> Well, despite the emotional, that sounds reasonable. So, if
>> you so vehemently oppose "the governance of every aspect of
>> your life by someone other than yourself" then we can agree
>> that the enforcing of contracts by Government is
>> authoritarian (if not totalitarian) and no such
>> "governance" should be done in libertarian society.
>
>Yes and no. That's another one of those grey areas, where it really depends
>on the contract in issue.
Well, so you _don't_ vehemently oppose "the governance of
every aspect of your life by someone other than yourself".
Or is it that you don't oppose it in the life of _others_?
We'll see.
An "issue" is always a "gray area" where there is need for
decision between opposites. The issue we are dealing with
here is contracts as enforceable versus un-enforceable
agreements. (On the face of it, the idea of enforceable
agreements is an oxymoron or double-think.)
That issue is a sub issue of libertarianism versus
authoritarianism so, ultimately, the decision is between
whether we want to favor (move toward) liberty or authority.
Both are utopian (perfect) and neither can be _fully_
objectified (perfected). All societal issues are similar in
that sense.
In re contracts, the decision is about whether we authorize
the Body Politic (BP - as either libertarian State or
authoritarian Government) to treat contracts as enforceable
agreements.
Any agreement is entered voluntarily because the parties see
it as mutually beneficial. It is valid only while there is
agreement, i.e. there is no agreement when there is
disagreement. When any party no longer sees an agreement as
beneficial and wants out (disagrees) the BP should _not_ be
empowered as Government to _force_ them to either remain or
be penalized.
To see that as a possible yes or no decision is mere
equivocation that stems from the desire to use the force and
deceit of the BP (as either State or Government) for
personal purposes, i.e. one party still benefits and wants
to force others to stay in though they no longer benefit.
But,the essential tenet of libertarianism is _not_ simply
"non initiation of force". It is agreement between
libertarians to reciprocally relinquish use of force and
deceit -including that of the BP- in getting from one
another.
That is where many equivocal authoritarian-libertarians, are
hung. They want agreements with others that remain
personally beneficial though they become detrimental to
others. So the decision, ultimately, is between liberty and
authority. And if you choose one the other is abandoned.
But nothing is perfect, so there is always a need for
authority in society. However, we need specify _when_ the BP
is authorized to use its vested force and deceit.
In "Libertarian Paradise" (utopia or perfectness and the
subject of this thread), the BP is authorized to use its
vested force and deceit ONLY ONLY ONLY to counteract use of
force and deceit between citizens.
So your idea that some contracts may be enforceable and
others not, is false in all cases in libertarian society
because the BP is not involved in who should benefit and who
should not in _any_ agreement. The BP functions only to
counteract use of force and deceit. Using it to enforce
agreements that are no longer agreements is authoritarian
use of force and deceit (that of the BP) to get from another
within libertarian society.
In liberty there is no need to enforce continuation of an
agreement. When agreements fail, citizens work out their
differences between themselves as long as none of them use
force and deceit, including that of the BP. When they cannot
agree they go their own ways.
The BP as libertarian State intervenes only when force and
deceit are used; and only to prevent use of force and deceit
between citizens. That is NOT a contractual issue it is
fundamental a societal issue that applies in agreements
between citizens. No one can use force and deceit (including
that of the BP) to get from others; so _no_ contract is
enforceable. The issue is soley whether force and deceit are
used. Only when they are used does the libertarian State
intervene.
Bernard Curry
************************************************************
Authoritarians teach what is written
When they have taught they can teach no more
Libertarians teach what is unwritten
When they have taught they have just begun
Bernard Curry
********************************************************
Email : bc...@ispwest.com
********************************************************
Thomas Storm
news:7Goyc.12525$XY6.1...@read2.cgocable.net...
> Get off your fat ass and get a job you socialist loser.
I'm in better physical shape than you are, I can guarantee you that... And
you act as if I am not trying to find work. You couldn't be more mistaken.
I've even applied to places like McDonalds (because I thought they'd hire
ANYBODY), but was turned away for being overqualified. It seems society
shuns those with several college degrees.
> Government Funded education has clearly destroyed your economic prospects.
> Perhaps you should be digging ditches.
I beg your pardon, but I went to three universities, paid for almost
entirely by loans and scholarships. No government money was used. As for
your education, where did you receive your post-graduate degree? Do you dig
ditches for a living with your master's or Ph.D.?
--
Thomas J. Storm
Thomas Storm
> Torture Bush.
> Execute Bush.
"Get thee behind me, Satan..."
--
Thomas J. Storm
Thomas Storm
> Money is the only true God.
> Capitalism the only valid Religion.
>
Thomas Storm
> If you own a dog you can torture it or kill it
However immoral that may be...
--
Thomas J. Storm
Thomas Storm
news:8a5mc051id7lbgt32...@4ax.com...
> point out that occasionally someone will get hurt. Staying the
> course, however, means that eventually the hurters will be unable to
> find anyone to deal with -- no one will sell to them, no one will buy
> from them, no one will enter into any sort of contract with them;
> possibly no one will even talk to them. That's a frightful penalty to
> pay -- worse than going to prison, I think.
>
> In a Libertarian (that is, non-coercive) society, the thought of
> living filthy, homeless, and hungry until death catches up to you (the
> ultimate death penalty) should convince every sane person to operate
> under the Golden Rule. Government, in such a world, is not even
> necessary.
>
> Contrast this with the existing situation, where investment fraud can
> net you _millions_ after paying some minuscule fines and serving a few
> months in the slammer.
I do agree with you there...
--
Thomas J. Storm
Bama Brian
> "Psalm 110" <Melch...@USA.com> wrote in message
> news:2275a3c5.04061...@posting.google.com...
>
>>No, he got it straight. Libertarians believe in child prostitution
>>with no lowest age of limitation.
>
>
> Correct. If rights are a universal characteristic of human existance,
> then children, as living humans must have the same rights as adults.
> Anything less is wanton slavery.
Libertarians don't believe in child prostitution, Vendicar.
Vendicar Decarian
> "Vendicar Decarian" <V...@Pyro.net> wrote in message
> news:vroyc.8855$_V4....@read1.cgocable.net...
> > Money is the only true God.
> > Capitalism the only valid Religion.
"Thomas Storm" <us...@network.net> wrote in message
news:10cmo0i...@corp.supernews.com...
> And yet, you claim to be tolerant of others' views?
Money rules the sentient universe.
Without money there is only death and destruction.
Money IS God.
The worship of money is the therfore the worship of GOD, and therefore a
religion.
Capitalism is the worship of money and hence the only true religion.
Vendicar Decarian
> Rights aren't granted, and you aren't born with them.
Then it follows that all rights that adults have, they have as children.
Since rights are conveyed at birth and not after, it is only possible to
remove rights when one is alive.
Children therefore have the same rights as adults - or more of them.
Since Adults have the right in an unfettered capitalist society to
prostitute themselves. It therefore follows that children have the same
rights.
QED...
Libertarians are members of the party of freedom. The party of liberty. The
party of thinking. The party with the answers. The party of the only true
God..... Money.
Vendicar Decarian
> "Vendicar Decarian" <V...@Pyro.net> wrote in message
> news:u0oyc.12514$XY6.1...@read2.cgocable.net...
> > If you own a dog you can torture it or kill it
"Thomas Storm" <us...@network.net> wrote in message
news:10cmo3h...@corp.supernews.com...
> However immoral that may be...
Greed is good.
Torturing your pet dog is part of the rights of ownership of that dog.
Legal barriers to torturing your dog are immoral and socialist, and a denial
of the very concept of ownership.
If an owner is <NOT> allowed to do with his possession what he wishes, then
he has no right to ownership. Rather the state has granted him limited
right of posession.
Since Property rights must be absolute, and since animals other than man are
not provided rights by definition, then it follows that the torture of a pet
is both permissable, and moral.
QED
Vendicar Decarian
> Vendicar Decarian wrote:
> > Correct. If rights are a universal characteristic of human existance,
> > then children, as living humans must have the same rights as adults.
> > Anything less is wanton slavery.
"Bama Brian" <bama...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:h1Nyc.7357$Y3....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Libertarians don't believe in child prostitution, Vendicar.
Children own their own bodies. Property rights are absolute.
If you own property you can do with it what you will. If you own a house
you can burn it down. If you own a dog you can torture it or kill it. It
is your property.
From the Libertarian party platform "...
We also support the repeal of all laws establishing any
category of crimes applicable to children for which adults
would not be similarly vulnerable, such as curfew, smoking,
and alcoholic beverage laws, and other status offenses."
Vendicar Decarian
> I beg your pardon, but I went to three universities, paid for almost
> entirely by loans and scholarships.
Just as we all knew.... You are a street beggar who got his education by
begging rather than work.
Typical Communist.
> As for your education, where did you receive your post-graduate degree?
Do you dig
> ditches for a living with your master's or Ph.D.?
No, I didn't soil myself, or soil my soul through begging as you have
done. My wealth comes from investments. Only the inferior actually do
physical labour. The smarter among you have their money work for them - and
in the process create ditch digging jobs for the commoners.
Courageous
>> Rights aren't granted, and you aren't born with them.
> Then it follows that all rights that adults have, they have as children.
No, it does NOT follow.
>Since rights are conveyed at birth and not after, ...
Proof by assertion a proof does not make. To the contrary rights are
not all conveyed at birth. In fact, in our present system, some rights
quite clearly _only_ exist at certain later dates.
>QED...
Not so. NON Quid Erat Demonstrandum, sir.
C//
Psalm 110
> >> > Libertarians believe in child prostitution
> >> >with no lowest age of limitation.
>
> >> complimentary.
>
> >Nope. That's the truth.
>
> No, it's _not_ the truth.
>
> >Let the market decide if pollution needs
> >cleaning up, not ... you jerks argue.
>
> To the contrary, dumping waste is a violation of trespass theory.
>
> If you are unable to discern on your own what constitutes libertarian
> thinking, blowing down straw men is not a good strategy. It will
> suggest to people that you _lie_.
>
> C//
When you do a search on google for "libertarian" you get 1,300,000
results. YOU don't speak for libertarians -- in fact it is doubtful
you could ever speak TO 1.3 million people in your lifetime to find
out what THEY believe. You are guessing and hoping that libertarians
are "good guys", when the facts say they are NOT.
YOUR opinion means as much to CATO INSTITUTE as a cow's opinion means
to a dairy farmer -- you poor libertarians are nothing but domestic
cattle for your rich bosses. They promise YOU that YOU can create
wealth like they created wealth, but the rich keep gobbling up more
and more. It used to be that 1% of the people owned 25% of America --
now 1/2% owns 40% of America. Rich supporters of the "libertarian
movement", paymasters of Cato, CEI, AEI, SCE, ETC. have not gotten
poorer, or shared their wealth -- they have amassed more and YOU fight
with other "little guys" over shrinking pieces of the pie.
You are a brainwashed, programmed robot, spouting foolish crap put in
your mouth by rich guys who will kill you with the toxic dumps (that
they want deregulated) leaching into your drinking water. Go live in
the town of ANNISTON, Alabama, you stupis craphead, and see the
freedom your masters have in store for all of America.
Hugo S. Cunningham
wrote:
>On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 23:54:07 -0400, "Vendicar Decarian" <V...@Pyro.net> wrote:
>
>>> Vendicar Decarian wrote:
>>> > By definition, there can be no molestation if the parties are willing,
>>
>>
>>From the Libertarian Party Platform...
>
>Libertarianism precedes the LP by _centuries_, and
>I assure you, sir, that Libertarianism as a philosophy
>holds no truck with those ideas. Stop this ridiculous
>slander.
>
>However, I'd like you to source that quote from
>this website:
>
>http://www.lp.org
>
>Where is it?
>
>Finally, the quote doesn't say what you want it to
>say. It says "...information regarding human sexuality,
>reproduction, birth control, or related medical or
>biological technologies."
>
>Of all those things named, parents, and only parents
>should be in control of those things.
VD may have been recycling older LP platforms, perhaps with a
strategic omission here and there.
The current (2002) platform you cite upholds parental rights, and so
does the one from 1994:
http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/libertarian.html#I21
"We recognize that children who have not reached maturity need
guardians to secure their rights and to aid in the exercise of those
rights. We hold that guardianship belongs to those who most love and
value the child and his or her development, normally the parents and
never the state."
I do not see that language in the 1988 version, however:
http://www.liv.ac.uk/Philosophy/liberty.html
(Paragraph 20 "Children's Rights")
Presumably the 1994 language was added in response to arguments like
VD's against the 1988 platform.
--Hugo S. Cunningham
Ken Smith
> On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 03:57:17 GMT, Courageous <dont...@spam.com>
> wrote:
>>On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 23:54:07 -0400, "Vendicar Decarian" <V...@Pyro.net> wrote:
>>>>Vendicar Decarian wrote:
[snip]
> VD may have been recycling older LP platforms, perhaps with a
> strategic omission here and there.
LOL! Isn't that the way it ALWAYS is on these boards?
> The current (2002) platform you cite upholds parental rights, and so
> does the one from 1994:
>
> http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/libertarian.html#I21
> "We recognize that children who have not reached maturity need
> guardians to secure their rights and to aid in the exercise of those
> rights. We hold that guardianship belongs to those who most love and
> value the child and his or her development, normally the parents and
> never the state."
Precisely. Even libertarians recognize that in a civilized society,
the freedom to swing my fist is limited by the proximity of your jaw.
Courageous
>> >Let the market decide if pollution needs
>> >cleaning up, not ... you jerks argue.
>You are a brainwashed, programmed robot, spouting foolish crap...
[SNIP blowhard diatriabe, where poster switches from straw man
tactics to argumentum ad hominem. Here we see that fallacies,
hysteria, and personal attacks are the best he's got].
C//