If Obamacare is repealed, will Cheney have to give back his new heart?

[Too_Many_Tools]

Conservatives love to bitch about Obamacare....until they benefit from
it.

I know of a number of local big mouth conservatives who bitch publicly
from Obamacare while personally benefiting from it financially.

Our local conservative hypocrite Gummer is a good example.

When will conservatives admit that when one out of four people in the
United States have no health insurance and are destroying this
Country's health system, a change needs to happen.

TMT

[Klaus Schadenfreude]

>Too_Many_Tools <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in talk.politics.guns :

>Conservatives love to bitch about Obamacare....until they benefit from
>it.
>
>I know of a number of local big mouth conservatives who bitch publicly
>from Obamacare while personally benefiting from it financially.

Name them.

>Our local conservative hypocrite Gummer is a good example.

Cite how he has benefited from Obamacare. Be specific.

>When will conservatives admit that when one out of four people in the
>United States have no health insurance and are destroying this
>Country's health system, a change needs to happen.

That change just isn't Obamacare. When will you leftists admit that
Obamacare doesn't come CLOSE to solving the actual problem?

[Mark Clarke]

First, TMT is being a moron after Lookout and DooDoo...

"Klaus Schadenfreude" wrote in message
news:25b3p794ep4n2p02r...@4ax.com...

[RD Sandman]

Too_Many_Tools <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:307ea815-2479-
404a-8142-4...@fv28g2000vbb.googlegroups.com:

> Conservatives love to bitch about Obamacare....until they benefit from
> it.
>
> I know of a number of local big mouth conservatives who bitch publicly
> from Obamacare while personally benefiting from it financially.
>
> Our local conservative hypocrite Gummer is a good example.

Care to show that the benefits that he has received were NOT available
without Obamacare? Take all the screens you need.......

> When will conservatives admit that when one out of four people in the
> United States have no health insurance and are destroying this
> Country's health system, a change needs to happen.

That doesn't mean that the answer is an individual mandate.


--

If it weren't for my lawyer, I still be in prison.
It went a lot faster with two people digging!!

Joe Martin


Sleep well, tonight.....

RD (The Sandman)

[Too_Many_Tools]

On Apr 20, 2:44 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
wrote:
> Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:307ea815-2479-
> 404a-8142-4a804e32d...@fv28g2000vbb.googlegroups.com:

Care to show that the benefits that Gummer has received were
available
with Bushcare? Take all the screens you need.......

The answer IS an individual mandate...even Mitt Romney the author of
Romneycare knows that.

As we have seen, the conservative answer under George Bush was one out
of four Americans without health insurance.

TMT

[RD Sandman]

Too_Many_Tools <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:3cda0cc0-8778-
4e71-98a1-2...@w7g2000vbg.googlegroups.com:

I am not the one who made the claim, asshole. That is so typical of you
and your side.....make a claim and then run away from proving it.

> The answer IS an individual mandate...even Mitt Romney the author of
> Romneycare knows that.

And I disagree. I think some form of single payer is the correct
answer.....Medicare for everyone, at least for catastrophic illnesses.
However, I don't like the government telling me what I have to purchase
from a private entity.

[Just Me]

On Apr 20, 1:21 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
wrote:
> Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:3cda0cc0-8778-
> 4e71-98a1-2aaabe187...@w7g2000vbg.googlegroups.com:

Most states have laws requiring you to purchase auto insurance from a
private entity, how is this different?
And I happen to agree on some version of single payer medicare for
all.It seems to work well in the rest of the world.

[Klaus Schadenfreude]

>Too_Many_Tools <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in talk.politics.guns :

>On Apr 20, 2:44 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
>wrote:
>> Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:307ea815-2479-
>> 404a-8142-4a804e32d...@fv28g2000vbb.googlegroups.com:
>>
>> > Conservatives love to bitch about Obamacare....until they benefit from
>> > it.
>>
>> > I know of a number of local big mouth conservatives who bitch publicly
>> > from Obamacare while personally benefiting from it financially.
>>
>> > Our local conservative hypocrite Gummer is a good example.
>>
>> Care to show that the benefits that he has received were NOT available
>> without Obamacare?  Take all the screens you need.......
>>
>> > When will conservatives admit that when one out of four people in the
>> > United States have no health insurance and are destroying this
>> > Country's health system, a change needs to happen.
>>
>> That doesn't mean that the answer is an individual mandate.
>>
>> --
>>
>> If it weren't for my lawyer, I still be in prison.
>> It went a lot faster with two people digging!!
>>
>> Joe Martin
>>
>> Sleep well, tonight.....
>>
>> RD (The Sandman)
>

>Care to show that the benefits that Gummer has received [..]

You claimed he received benefits under Obamacare.

List them.

[Phil Kangas]

"Just Me"

Most states have laws requiring you to purchase
auto insurance from a
private entity, how is this different?
And I happen to agree on some version of single
payer medicare for
all.It seems to work well in the rest of the
world.

You need auto ins. _if_ you have a car. You need a
building permit
_if_ you are building. The gov't cannot force
every American to send
monthly payments for life to a private for profit
company, period.
Don't do it and you are fined (not taxed) for not
following the law.
phil k.

[Scout]

"Just Me" <mutantm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:222188ac-f00f-4900...@me1g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...

Please cite the law that requires you to have insurance no matter what.

[Jeff M]

On 4/20/2012 5:09 PM, Phil Kangas wrote:
> "Just Me"
> Most states have laws requiring you to purchase
> auto insurance from a
> private entity, how is this different?
> And I happen to agree on some version of single
> payer medicare for
> all.It seems to work well in the rest of the
> world.
>
>
> You need auto ins. _if_ you have a car. You need a
> building permit
> _if_ you are building. The gov't cannot force
> every American to send
> monthly payments for life to a private for profit
> company, period.

And why was this requirement for essentially a guaranteed customer base
and profits included in the legislation? Who benefits from it, as
opposed to, say, a single player plan or "Medicare for all"?

Insurance companies, through mainly Republican legislators at the behest
of insurance industry lobbyists.

Remember, Obama didn't draft or propose "Obamacare" as some neat
legislative proposal from his administration. I suppose he wanted to
avoid the Clinton administration's mistake of presenting a complete bill
as a fait accompli. Instead, he left it to Congress to draft the
legislation, which ended up incorporating several ideas that originated
with conservatives, and others that attempted to overcome potential
Republican objections. Chief among these was protecting the profits
that insurance companies make from selling health care coverage. Had
they tried to cut out these middlemen, the legislation would have been
doomed. Other alternatives that arguably made more sense from a fiscal,
efficiency or healthcare perspective were simply not politically viable,
so there was little point in proposing them.

[RD Sandman]

Just Me <mutantm...@yahoo.com> wrote in

news:222188ac-f00f-4900...@me1g2000pbc.googlegroups.com:

I don't have to drive a car or even get insurance for it if I can prove
financial responsibility for the amount of insurance or only drive on
private property. FWIW, some farm vehicles are also excused.

> And I happen to agree on some version of single payer medicare for
> all.It seems to work well in the rest of the world.

Good.

[RD Sandman]

"Phil Kangas" <pka...@upalphacomm.net> wrote in news:jmsmrr$lkk$1@dont-
email.me:

Although that fine is turned over to the IRS for collection.

[Jeff M]

Judicial activists in the Supreme Court

By E.J. Dionne Jr., Published: March 28

Three days of Supreme Court arguments over the health-care law
demonstrated for all to see that conservative justices are prepared to
act as an alternative legislature, diving deeply into policy details as
if they were members of the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions
Committee.

Senator, excuse me, Justice Samuel Alito quoted Congressional Budget
Office figures on Tuesday to talk about the insurance costs of the
young. On Wednesday, Chief Justice John Roberts sounded like the House
whip in discussing whether parts of the law could stand if other parts
fell. He noted that without various provisions, Congress “wouldn’t have
been able to put together, cobble together, the votes to get it
through.” Tell me again, was this a courtroom or a lobbyist’s office?

It fell to the court’s liberals — the so-called “judicial activists,”
remember? — to remind their conservative brethren that legislative power
is supposed to rest in our government’s elected branches.

Justice Stephen Breyer noted that some of the issues raised by opponents
of the law were about “the merits of the bill,” a proper concern of
Congress, not the courts. And in arguing for restraint, Justice Sonia
Sotomayor asked what was wrong with leaving as much discretion as
possible “in the hands of the people who should be fixing this, not us.”
It was nice to be reminded that we’re a democracy, not a judicial
dictatorship.

The conservative justices were obsessed with weird hypotheticals. If the
federal government could make you buy health insurance, might it require
you to buy broccoli, health club memberships, cellphones, burial
services and cars? All of which have nothing to do with an uninsured
person getting expensive treatment that others — often taxpayers — have
to pay for.

Liberals should learn from this display that there is no point in
catering to today’s hard-line conservatives. The individual mandate was
a conservative idea that President Obama adopted to preserve the private
market in health insurance rather than move toward a
government-financed, single-payer system. What he got back from
conservatives was not gratitude but charges of socialism — for adopting
their own proposal.

The irony is that if the court’s conservatives overthrow the mandate,
they will hasten the arrival of a more government-heavy system. Justice
Anthony Kennedy even hinted that it might be more “honest” if government
simply used “the tax power to raise revenue and to just have a national
health service, single-payer.” Remember those words.

One of the most astonishing arguments came from Roberts, who spoke with
alarm that people would be required to purchase coverage for issues they
might never confront. He specifically cited “pediatric services” and
“maternity services.”

Well, yes, men pay to cover maternity services while women pay for
treating prostate problems. It’s called health insurance. Would it be
better to segregate the insurance market along gender lines?

The court’s right-wing justices seemed to forget that the best argument
for the individual mandate was made in 1989 by a respected conservative,
the Heritage Foundation’s Stuart Butler.

“If a man is struck down by a heart attack in the street,” Butler said,
“Americans will care for him whether or not he has insurance. If we find
that he has spent his money on other things rather than insurance, we
may be angry but we will not deny him services — even if that means more
prudent citizens end up paying the tab. A mandate on individuals
recognizes this implicit contract.”

Justice Antonin Scalia seemed to reject the sense of solidarity that
Butler embraced. When Solicitor General Donald Verrilli explained that
“we’ve obligated ourselves so that people get health care,” Scalia
replied coolly: “Well, don’t obligate yourself to that.” Does this mean
letting Butler’s uninsured guy die?

Slate’s Dahlia Lithwick called attention to this exchange and was
eloquent in describing its meaning. “This case isn’t so much about
freedom from government-mandated broccoli or gyms,” Lithwick wrote.
“It’s about freedom from our obligations to one another . . . the
freedom to ignore the injured” and to “walk away from those in peril.”

This is what conservative justices will do if they strike down or
cripple the health-care law. And a court that gave us Bush v. Gore and
Citizens United will prove conclusively that it sees no limits on its
power, no need to defer to those elected to make our laws. A Supreme
Court that is supposed to give us justice will instead deliver ideology.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/activist-judges-on-trial/2012/03/28/gIQAKdE2gS_story.html

[Too_Many_Tools]

> http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/activist-judges-on-trial/2012/...

I along with millions of other Americans are still laughing about how
Obama rubbed the collective conservative nose in their own judicial
activist argument.

Laugh..laugh..laugh...

TMT

[Just Me]

> http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/activist-judges-on-trial/2012/...

Ya know there are a couple of things I've never understood about the
health care debate
Why can't there be room for single payer medicare for everybody that
covers basic healthcare,and for those who can afford it, private
policies that let them buy what they want. No boob jobs on medicare
just because you want bigger boobs,it's OK for reconstruction after
cancer and such.
Sure, single payer in other countries have there issues,but by and
large more people have more and better basic coverage than in the
US.You don't often hear of people losing everything just because of
cancer or some such condition.

The second thing is, I would think that a healthy work force is good
for the bottom line, if people are not sick or worrying about time off
because of sickness, then the profit margin will go up.
Actually I know the answer to this, it's when personnel was changed
to human resources , you are no longer person(nel), just "resource"
like an end mill or office chair, when you break you are tossed out
and replaced with a cheaper unit.
welcome to Feudalism 2.0

[Harold Burton]

In article
<307ea815-2479-404a...@fv28g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,

Too_Many_Tools <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Conservatives love to bitch about Obamacare....until they benefit from
> it.
>
> I know of a number of local big mouth conservatives who bitch publicly
> from Obamacare while personally benefiting from it financially.
>
> Our local conservative hypocrite Gummer is a good example.
>
> When will conservatives admit that when one out of four people in the

> United States have (sic) no health insurance and are destroying this

> Country's health system, a change needs to happen.

Of course it does, but not stupidly, like Odumbya did it.

[Harold Burton]

In article
<3cda0cc0-8778-4e71...@w7g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>,

Too_Many_Tools <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Apr 20, 2:44 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
> wrote:
> > Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:307ea815-2479-
> > 404a-8142-4a804e32d...@fv28g2000vbb.googlegroups.com:
> >
> > > Conservatives love to bitch about Obamacare....until they benefit from
> > > it.
> >
> > > I know of a number of local big mouth conservatives who bitch publicly
> > > from Obamacare while personally benefiting from it financially.
> >
> > > Our local conservative hypocrite Gummer is a good example.
> >
> > Care to show that the benefits that he has received were NOT available
> > without Obamacare?  Take all the screens you need.......
> >
> > > When will conservatives admit that when one out of four people in the
> > > United States have no health insurance and are destroying this
> > > Country's health system, a change needs to happen.
> >
> > That doesn't mean that the answer is an individual mandate.
> >
> > --
> >
> > If it weren't for my lawyer, I still be in prison.
> > It went a lot faster with two people digging!!
> >
> > Joe Martin
> >
> > Sleep well, tonight.....
> >
> > RD (The Sandman)
>
> Care to show that the benefits that Gummer has received were
> available with Bushcare?

Bushcare? Never heard of it, like all your chimeras, it's just a
figment of your fevered imagination.


snicker.

[Harold Burton]

In article <XnsA03B87F66...@216.196.121.131>,

What else are they going to do? :-)

[Harold Burton]

In article
<222188ac-f00f-4900...@me1g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>,

Are you really so stupid as to need someone to answer this for you/
Just admit you are and I'll explain it so that even someone as stupid as
you can understand.


snicker

[Harold Burton]

In article
<e95310d7-ae8b-452e...@a5g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,

Too_Many_Tools <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:


> I along with millions of other Americans are still laughing about how
> Obama rubbed the collective conservative nose in their own judicial
> activist argument.

Just like I, along with millions of other Americans, are still laughing
about how Obama and the pro judicial activist leftards had their
collective noses rubbed in their judicial activist arguments.

Listening to Odumbya bluster about an unelected Supreme Court possibly
overturning a law passed "overwhelmingly" practically busted my gut.


How do you know when the Current Resident is lying to you . . . his lips
move.


> Laugh..laugh..laugh...


Indeed

[Gunner Asch]

On Fri, 20 Apr 2012 14:44:30 -0500, RD Sandman
<rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net> wrote:

>Too_Many_Tools <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:307ea815-2479-
>404a-8142-4...@fv28g2000vbb.googlegroups.com:
>
>> Conservatives love to bitch about Obamacare....until they benefit from
>> it.
>>
>> I know of a number of local big mouth conservatives who bitch publicly
>> from Obamacare while personally benefiting from it financially.
>>
>> Our local conservative hypocrite Gummer is a good example.
>
>Care to show that the benefits that he has received were NOT available
>without Obamacare? Take all the screens you need.......
>
>> When will conservatives admit that when one out of four people in the
>> United States have no health insurance and are destroying this
>> Country's health system, a change needs to happen.
>
>That doesn't mean that the answer is an individual mandate.

Notice that he also didnt mention that the vast majority of those
without medical insurance..are illegal aliens?

No illegal aliens...it would be much...much..much smaller ratio

But shrug...thats the Leftwinger for you.

Gunner

[Gunner Asch]

On Fri, 20 Apr 2012 18:09:59 -0400, "Phil Kangas"
<pka...@upalphacomm.net> wrote:

>
>You need auto ins. _if_ you have a car.

You need auto insurance -IF_ you drive that car on a public
roadway...only.

So its NOT a given that owning a car means you have to buy insurance.

And given the numbers of illegal aliens who not only dont have
insurance..but no drivers license either..and refuse to get
either....millions in fact......


Gunner

[Ed Huntress]

On Fri, 20 Apr 2012 19:19:58 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Would that make you feel better about your OWN lack of insurance, the
result of which the rest of us are paying tens of thousands of tax
dollars because you slid in under the EMTALA law?

>
>But shrug...thats the Leftwinger for you.

And one supposes that makes you a Rightwinger parasite?

You really ought to shut up about health care insurance and how others
are abusing the system, Gunner. You're one who NEEDS to have health
insurance -- and because you didn't, you cost the taxpayers a bundle.
Under the ACA, you could even afford insurance for yourself.

--
Ed Huntress


>
>Gunner

[Harold Burton]

In article <fi64p716u3l981l67...@4ax.com>,

Ed Huntress <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:

> On Fri, 20 Apr 2012 19:19:58 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 20 Apr 2012 14:44:30 -0500, RD Sandman
> ><rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> >>Too_Many_Tools <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:307ea815-2479-
> >>404a-8142-4...@fv28g2000vbb.googlegroups.com:
> >>
> >>> Conservatives love to bitch about Obamacare....until they benefit from
> >>> it.
> >>>
> >>> I know of a number of local big mouth conservatives who bitch publicly
> >>> from Obamacare while personally benefiting from it financially.
> >>>
> >>> Our local conservative hypocrite Gummer is a good example.
> >>
> >>Care to show that the benefits that he has received were NOT available
> >>without Obamacare? Take all the screens you need.......
> >>
> >>> When will conservatives admit that when one out of four people in the
> >>> United States have no health insurance and are destroying this
> >>> Country's health system, a change needs to happen.
> >>
> >>That doesn't mean that the answer is an individual mandate.
> >
> >Notice that he also didnt mention that the vast majority of those
> >without medical insurance..are illegal aliens?
> >
> >No illegal aliens...it would be much...much..much smaller ratio
>
> Would that make you feel better about your OWN lack of insurance, the
> result of which the rest of us are paying tens of thousands of tax
> dollars because you slid in under the EMTALA law?

And why are the rest of us paying tens of thousands of tax dollars
because Gunner slid in under the EMTALA law?

Please document.


snicker

[Jeff M]

First, that would threaten insurance industry profits. Second,
catastrophic care is too large a part of the problem to leave out of the
reform process. Third, the process of developing legislation is
primarily political, and not necessarily rational. The more the money
involved, the more political and less rational the process becomes, and
healthcare is very big money.

> No boob jobs on medicare
> just because you want bigger boobs,it's OK for reconstruction after
> cancer and such.
> Sure, single payer in other countries have there issues,but by and
> large more people have more and better basic coverage than in the
> US.You don't often hear of people losing everything just because of
> cancer or some such condition.

Healthcare is indeed a major cause of personal bankruptcies, and a
surprisingly large percentage of those were "covered" by healthcare
insurance.

> The second thing is, I would think that a healthy work force is good
> for the bottom line, if people are not sick or worrying about time off
> because of sickness, then the profit margin will go up.

True. The lack of a national health care plan and our current method of
insuring most Americans through their employment puts American employers
at a competitive disadvantage to their foreign competition. In any
case, employer provided and tax subsidized health insurance is merely an
accident of history, dating from WWII era wage controls, and not the
product of any sort of rational plan or logical policy decision. We can
do much better, if we can find the will and the political courage to do so.

[Too_Many_Tools]

> >   welcome to Feudalism 2.0- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

At last count, healthcare is indeed a major cause of personal

bankruptcies, and a
surprisingly large percentage of those were "covered" by healthcare

insurance....over 45%...and yes that is being covered with a normal
employer supplied coverage.

The Americans without insurance are economic roadkill...dead men
walking.

Gummer is one of them.

TMT

[pyotr filipivich]

Let the Record show that "Mark Clarke" <Natur...@bass.gov> on or
about Fri, 20 Apr 2012 15:25:33 -0400 did write, type or otherwise
cause to appear in talk.politics.guns the following:

First they would have to recognize what the actual problem is.
Which they are incapable of doing, as the problem is the Leftist
Utopian Dream of a Society Where All Are Equal. Which hasn't happened
since Adam and the woman left the Garden.


toodles
pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich
Next Month's Panel: Suicide - getting it right the first time.

[RogerN]

>"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
>news:e95310d7-ae8b-452e...@a5g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...

>
>On Apr 20, 6:03 pm, Jeff M <NoS...@NoThanks.Org> wrote:

<snip>

>>
>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/activist-judges-on-trial/2012/...
>
>I along with millions of other Americans are still laughing about how
>Obama rubbed the collective conservative nose in their own judicial
>activist argument.
>
>Laugh..laugh..laugh...
>
>TMT

Again you have the truth so twisted that your laughing at your own
stupidity.

The lefttards use judicial legislation to change the law by redefining what
things mean, making laws mean what they never meant since the foundation of
the country, and stupid judges buy into it. But when the lefttards come up
with something that really is unconstitutional, the lefttards don't want the
judges to declare it unconstitutional. Remember Pelosi saying that they
needed to pass Obamacare to find out what's in it? Remember Obama taking
Democrats behind closed doors and bribing them for their vote? Remember Ted
Kennedy being replaced by a Republican thanks to Obamacare? Remember Obama
causing many Democrats to loose their job in 2010 elections?

The Bible said lefttards would prosper until nearly destroying the world,
why do you marvel at their success? The only thing that will keep lefttards
from completely destroying the entire world will be that God will directly
intervene. I just enjoy seeing how it's all coming together, Bible prophecy
is being fulfilled right before our eyes and the left can't even see that
they are heading straight down the path of destruction full speed ahead.
I'm not laughing because it's horrible to see you jumping off the diving
board into the lake of fire, and you're so blinded that you think it's a
swimming pool.

Here's a secret, the final form of government will be a dictatorship.

RogerN

[max headroom]

Just Me <mutantm...@yahoo.com> wrote in

news:199825b3-a87c-4ac1...@to5g2000pbc.googlegroups.com:

> Ya know there are a couple of things I've never understood about the
> health care debate
> Why can't there be room for single payer medicare for everybody that
> covers basic healthcare,and for those who can afford it, private
> policies that let them buy what they want. No boob jobs on medicare
> just because you want bigger boobs,it's OK for reconstruction after
> cancer and such.

> Sure, single payer in other countries have there issues,...

Check out the discussions in UK and Canada as to how they can continue to afford their health care
systems.

[max headroom]

Too_Many_Tools <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:e95310d7-ae8b-452e...@a5g2000vbl.googlegroups.com:

> I along with millions of other Americans are still laughing about how
> Obama rubbed the collective conservative nose in their own judicial
> activist argument.

Activist judges MAKE laws out of thin air; this court is doing its constitutional duty to decide if
ObamaCare is permitted under the Constitution.

> Laugh..laugh..laugh...

Yes we did... at Beloved Leader's flailing at the SCOTUS and his inept threats.

[max headroom]

Just Me <mutantm...@yahoo.com> wrote in

news:222188ac-f00f-4900...@me1g2000pbc.googlegroups.com:

> Most states have laws requiring you to purchase auto insurance from a
> private entity, how is this different?

Many states allow drivers to post a bond in lieu of buying insurance.

The required insurance is liability insurance to cover the cost of injuring others or damaging their
property.

Also, driving is voluntary.

[Klaus Schadenfreude]

>pyotr filipivich <ph...@mindspring.com> wrote in talk.politics.guns :

>Let the Record show that "Mark Clarke" <Natur...@bass.gov> on or
>about Fri, 20 Apr 2012 15:25:33 -0400 did write, type or otherwise
>cause to appear in talk.politics.guns the following:
>>First, TMT is being a moron after Lookout and DooDoo...
>>
>>"Klaus Schadenfreude" wrote in message
>>news:25b3p794ep4n2p02r...@4ax.com...
>>
>>>Too_Many_Tools <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in talk.politics.guns :
>>
>>>Conservatives love to bitch about Obamacare....until they benefit from
>>>it.
>>>
>>>I know of a number of local big mouth conservatives who bitch publicly
>>>from Obamacare while personally benefiting from it financially.
>>
>>Name them.
>>
>>>Our local conservative hypocrite Gummer is a good example.
>>
>>Cite how he has benefited from Obamacare. Be specific.
>>
>>>When will conservatives admit that when one out of four people in the
>>>United States have no health insurance and are destroying this
>>>Country's health system, a change needs to happen.
>>
>>That change just isn't Obamacare. When will you leftists admit that
>>Obamacare doesn't come CLOSE to solving the actual problem?
>
> First they would have to recognize what the actual problem is.

As they see it, not enough people are getting "free" stuff.

>Which they are incapable of doing, as the problem is the Leftist
>Utopian Dream of a Society Where All Are Equal. Which hasn't happened
>since Adam and the woman left the Garden.

They won't get the reference. Let's keep it simple. Not enough people
getting free stuff. That's the job of the government, as they see it.

Provide free stuff.

And especially promise me free stuff before the election. I'll believe
you.

[RD Sandman]

Jeff M <NoS...@NoThanks.Org> wrote in
news:RoOdnQu7F88SdwzS...@giganews.com:

> Judicial activists in the Supreme Court
>
> By E.J. Dionne Jr., Published: March 28

Just who are the activist justices depends on which side of the issue you
happen to be on and whose side wins.

[Jeff M]

On 4/21/2012 11:53 AM, RD Sandman wrote:
> Jeff M<NoS...@NoThanks.Org> wrote in
> news:RoOdnQu7F88SdwzS...@giganews.com:
>
>> Judicial activists in the Supreme Court
>>
>> By E.J. Dionne Jr., Published: March 28
> Just who are the activist justices depends on which side of the issue you
> happen to be on and whose side wins.

Not necessarily. "Judicial activism" is not just a pejorative term used
to criticize judicial decisions you don't like; the concept has actual
meaning and can be measured objectively.

The author's point was, I believe, similar to yours. Some partisans
claim to see "judicial activism," whether it was there or not, in
decisions they don't like, but ignore it completely even though it
indisputably happened, if they like the outcome.

[RD Sandman]

Jeff M <NoS...@NoThanks.org> wrote in
news:QLudnTGFlvrLaQ_S...@giganews.com:

I would think that would be the majority.

[Too_Many_Tools]

LOL...Hey Roger..here's a clue...God is a Democrat and She votes
straight ticket.

TMT

[Too_Many_Tools]

On Apr 21, 11:53 am, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
wrote:
> Jeff M <NoS...@NoThanks.Org> wrote innews:RoOdnQu7F88SdwzS...@giganews.com:

LOL...the activist justice argument is a conservative whine...and I am
still laughing how Obama rubbed the collective conservative nose in
THEIR activist justice argument...

Just for that Obama gets my vote in November...just a great, smart
move.

TMT

[RD Sandman]

Too_Many_Tools <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:2142d7df-2921-42d5...@f5g2000vbt.googlegroups.com:

> On Apr 21, 11:53 am, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>> Jeff M <NoS...@NoThanks.Org> wrote

>> innews:RoOdnQu7F88SdwzSnZ2dnUVZ_j6dnZ2
> d...@giganews.com:

>>
>> > Judicial activists in the Supreme Court
>>
>> > By E.J. Dionne Jr., Published: March 28
>>
>> Just who are the activist justices depends on which side of the issue
>> you happen to be on and whose side wins.
>>
>> --
>>
>> If it weren't for my lawyer, I still be in prison.
>> It went a lot faster with two people digging!!
>>
>> Joe Martin
>>
>> Sleep well, tonight.....
>>
>> RD (The Sandman)
>
> LOL...the activist justice argument is a conservative whine...and I am
> still laughing how Obama rubbed the collective conservative nose in
> THEIR activist justice argument...

Hmmmmm, are you suggesting that Obama is using the activist jurist card?
After all, he is already using the class warfare one and his followers have
been using the racial one.

> Just for that Obama gets my vote in November...just a great, smart
> move.

[Hawke]

On 4/20/2012 3:09 PM, Phil Kangas wrote:
> "Just Me"

> Most states have laws requiring you to purchase
> auto insurance from a
> private entity, how is this different?

> And I happen to agree on some version of single
> payer medicare for
> all.It seems to work well in the rest of the
> world.

>
>
> You need auto ins. _if_ you have a car. You need a

> building permit
> _if_ you are building. The gov't cannot force
> every American to send
> monthly payments for life to a private for profit
> company, period.
> Don't do it and you are fined (not taxed) for not
> following the law.
> phil k.


The government has the right and the power to take your freedom away
from you and your life. Why in the world would you think it can't
require you to join in a communal health care network? That seems a no
brainer as far as what the government can do. Of course the government
can do that. Especially when you know the people voted for
representatives who are doing what they majority wants.

Hawke

[Hawke]

Here's a fact you will have to deal with. When your life is over and you
are ready for the grave you will find that your "lord" has not shown up.
You'll be dead and no god will have intervened in anything. Fools have
been predicting that for thousands of years. They have a lousy record.
No god has ever shown his face in human history. But you are expecting
it. And you think we are the dreamers?

Hawke

[RD Sandman]

Hawke <davesm...@digitalpath.net> wrote in news:jmv0ao$tk4$1
@speranza.aioe.org:

I don't think the majority is in favor of the individual mandate. We
shall see in June what the Supreme Court thinks of it.

[Hawke]

On 4/20/2012 5:10 PM, Just Me wrote:

> On Apr 20, 4:03 pm, Jeff M<NoS...@NoThanks.Org> wrote:
>> Judicial activists in the Supreme Court
>>
>> By E.J. Dionne Jr., Published: March 28
>>

> Ya know there are a couple of things I've never understood about the
> health care debate
> Why can't there be room for single payer medicare for everybody that
> covers basic healthcare,and for those who can afford it, private
> policies that let them buy what they want. No boob jobs on medicare
> just because you want bigger boobs,it's OK for reconstruction after
> cancer and such.

> Sure, single payer in other countries have there issues,but by and
> large more people have more and better basic coverage than in the
> US.You don't often hear of people losing everything just because of
> cancer or some such condition.
>

> The second thing is, I would think that a healthy work force is good
> for the bottom line, if people are not sick or worrying about time off
> because of sickness, then the profit margin will go up.

> Actually I know the answer to this, it's when personnel was changed
> to human resources , you are no longer person(nel), just "resource"
> like an end mill or office chair, when you break you are tossed out
> and replaced with a cheaper unit.
> welcome to Feudalism 2.0
>

No, that's just business 101. Business has always seen labor as just one
of the means of production and ultimately profits. Human need has never
figured into the calculations of corporations. The funny thing is that
when people were chewed up and spit out by corporations in the early
1900s that reforms would change the way business operated. As we all can
see, nothing has changed. Business wants no unions, no government
regulation, and no rules to prevent them from treating humans like
inanimate objects. Some enlightened folks have changed from this model
but by and large business treats workers like they always have, as
disposable resources.

A great example of this was the slave owners that had sugar plantations.
They knew they would kill most of their slaves in 8 years of overworking
them but they would break even in 4 or 5 so it was a winning situation
for them. They never took into account the slaves were humans. To me
that's how I see many businessmen. If you don't keep a leash on them
they will make slaves of everyone but their friends and families.

Hawke

[Hawke]

Everywhere you look you see America falling behind other parts of the
world instead of leading it. Whether it's out education, our
infrastructure, our legal system, our technology, we are not at the
leading edge like we used to be. The reason for that is because free
market fundamentalists have forced us into doing nothing unless the
market allows it. The result is we are lacking in all kinds of ways
other countries who use the government to improve things have put to
use. China sure isn't a free market economy and they're wiping us.
Europe has better health care and better internet access and public
transportation. We don't because if the free market doesn't provide it
we don't get it. So we're lagging because we're wedded to Adam Smith era
methods. Or to put it another way, we are so conservative that we aren't
trying new things and are sticking with the old. That's a formula for
losing when it comes to, among other things, business. Our devotion to
the market is preventing us from moving ahead as fast as other countries
who aren't as blind as our leaders are.

Hawke

[Too_Many_Tools]

On Apr 21, 2:21 pm, Deucalion <some...@nowhere.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Apr 2012 12:16:05 -0700, Hawke

> >>> “It’s about freedom from our obligations to one another .?.?. the

> That was well said and so true.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Agreed

TMT

[Too_Many_Tools]

On Apr 21, 1:37 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
wrote:

> RD (The Sandman)- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Nope..he just pointed out the obvious.

I was wondering when it would be mentioned.

Then again I am a liberal who uses his mind to anticipate events in
the future.

If conservatives had two brain cells to rub together, they would have
had already had this argument covered...they did not...stupid is as
stupid does in relation to conservatives.

Image of Obama rubbing conservative's noses in it = priceless!

TMT

[Jeff M]

On 4/21/2012 1:37 PM, RD Sandman wrote:
> Too_Many_Tools<too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:2142d7df-2921-42d5...@f5g2000vbt.googlegroups.com:
>
>> On Apr 21, 11:53 am, RD Sandman<rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>>> Jeff M<NoS...@NoThanks.Org> wrote
>>> innews:RoOdnQu7F88SdwzSnZ2dnUVZ_j6dnZ2
>> d...@giganews.com:
>>>
>>>> Judicial activists in the Supreme Court
>>>
>>>> By E.J. Dionne Jr., Published: March 28
>>>
>>> Just who are the activist justices depends on which side of the issue
>>> you happen to be on and whose side wins.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> If it weren't for my lawyer, I still be in prison.
>>> It went a lot faster with two people digging!!
>>>
>>> Joe Martin
>>>
>>> Sleep well, tonight.....
>>>
>>> RD (The Sandman)
>>
>> LOL...the activist justice argument is a conservative whine...and I am
>> still laughing how Obama rubbed the collective conservative nose in
>> THEIR activist justice argument...
>
> Hmmmmm, are you suggesting that Obama is using the activist jurist card?
> After all, he is already using the class warfare one and his followers have
> been using the racial one.

They aren't "cards" and he isn't "using" them. Judicial activism (and
hypocritical complaints about it), class warfare and racism are all
quite real and significant issues, worthy of calling attention to and
having a national dialogue about.

[RD Sandman]

Too_Many_Tools <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:abc3cc30-68dc-40c0...@z3g2000vbk.googlegroups.com:

> On Apr 21, 1:37 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>> Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote
>> innews:2142d7df-2921-42d5

> -bd5c-28a...@f5g2000vbt.googlegroups.com:

>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Apr 21, 11:53 am, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
>> > wrote:
>> >> Jeff M <NoS...@NoThanks.Org> wrote
>> >> innews:RoOdnQu7F88SdwzSnZ2dnUVZ_j6dnZ2
>> > d...@giganews.com:
>>
>> >> > Judicial activists in the Supreme Court
>>
>> >> > By E.J. Dionne Jr., Published: March 28
>>
>> >> Just who are the activist justices depends on which side of the
>> >> issue you happen to be on and whose side wins.
>>

>> > LOL...the activist justice argument is a conservative whine...and I
>> > am still laughing how Obama rubbed the collective conservative nose
>> > in THEIR activist justice argument...
>>
>> Hmmmmm, are you suggesting that Obama is using the activist jurist
>> card? After all, he is already using the class warfare one and his
>> followers have been using the racial one.
>>
>> > Just for that Obama gets my vote in November...just a great, smart
>> > move.
>

> Nope..he just pointed out the obvious.
>
> I was wondering when it would be mentioned.
>
> Then again I am a liberal who uses his mind to anticipate events in
> the future.

Not really.....

> If conservatives had two brain cells to rub together, they would have
> had already had this argument covered...they did not...stupid is as
> stupid does in relation to conservatives.
>
> Image of Obama rubbing conservative's noses in it = priceless!

By accusing the Court of being activist. Sounds like a rant the other
side would use.

[RD Sandman]

Jeff M <NoS...@NoThanks.org> wrote in

news:z6idncaf_8Eukg7S...@giganews.com:

My point was that they occur from both sides of the issues.

[Scout]

"Hawke" <davesm...@digitalpath.net> wrote in message
news:jmv0ao$tk4$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

> On 4/20/2012 3:09 PM, Phil Kangas wrote:
>> "Just Me"
>> Most states have laws requiring you to purchase
>> auto insurance from a
>> private entity, how is this different?
>> And I happen to agree on some version of single
>> payer medicare for
>> all.It seems to work well in the rest of the
>> world.
>>
>>
>> You need auto ins. _if_ you have a car. You need a
>> building permit
>> _if_ you are building. The gov't cannot force
>> every American to send
>> monthly payments for life to a private for profit
>> company, period.
>> Don't do it and you are fined (not taxed) for not
>> following the law.
>> phil k.
>
>
> The government has the right and the power to take your freedom away from
> you and your life.

Not without due process.

Why in the world would you think it can't
> require you to join in a communal health care network?

Where's my due process....when am I going to be accused of a crime and get
my day in court?

Did I answer your question?

[Scout]

"Hawke" <davesm...@digitalpath.net> wrote in message

news:jmv0im$v26$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

Please prove this assertion of yours.

[RD Sandman]

"Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
news:jmv9l4$ns5$1...@dont-email.me:

>
>
> "Hawke" <davesm...@digitalpath.net> wrote in message
> news:jmv0ao$tk4$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>> On 4/20/2012 3:09 PM, Phil Kangas wrote:
>>> "Just Me"
>>> Most states have laws requiring you to purchase
>>> auto insurance from a
>>> private entity, how is this different?
>>> And I happen to agree on some version of single
>>> payer medicare for
>>> all.It seems to work well in the rest of the
>>> world.
>>>
>>>
>>> You need auto ins. _if_ you have a car. You need a
>>> building permit
>>> _if_ you are building. The gov't cannot force
>>> every American to send
>>> monthly payments for life to a private for profit
>>> company, period.
>>> Don't do it and you are fined (not taxed) for not
>>> following the law.
>>> phil k.
>>
>>
>> The government has the right and the power to take your freedom away
>> from you and your life.
>
> Not without due process.

Or violating the Constitution.

> Why in the world would you think it can't
>> require you to join in a communal health care network?
>
> Where's my due process....when am I going to be accused of a crime and
> get my day in court?
>
> Did I answer your question?
>
>
>

[Too_Many_Tools]

On Apr 21, 3:13 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
wrote:

> Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote innews:abc3cc30-68dc-40c0...@z3g2000vbk.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 21, 1:37 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
> > wrote:
> >> Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote
> >> innews:2142d7df-2921-42d5

> > -bd5c-28a05498f...@f5g2000vbt.googlegroups.com:

> RD (The Sandman)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

If you noticed, I and millions of liberals are still laughing at you.

TMT

[Too_Many_Tools]

On Apr 21, 5:24 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
wrote:
> "Scout" <me4g...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote innews:jmv9l4$ns5$1...@dont-email.me:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Hawke" <davesmith...@digitalpath.net> wrote in message

> RD (The Sandman)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Violating the Constitution?

How would that happen?

Use lots of white space.

TMT

[Too_Many_Tools]

On Apr 21, 3:23 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
wrote:
> Jeff M <NoS...@NoThanks.org> wrote innews:z6idncaf_8Eukg7S...@giganews.com:

>
>
>
>
>
> > On 4/21/2012 1:37 PM, RD Sandman wrote:

> >> Too_Many_Tools<too_many_to...@yahoo.com>  wrote in

> RD (The Sandman)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

So why do we always hear them from the whining conservatives...

TMT

[dca...@krl.org]

On Apr 21, 3:03 pm, Hawke <davesmith...@digitalpath.net> wrote:

> The government has the right and the power to take your freedom away
> from you and your life. Why in the world would you think it can't
> require you to join in a communal health care network? That seems a no
> brainer as far as what the government can do. Of course the government
> can do that. Especially when you know the people voted for
> representatives who are doing what they majority wants.
>
> Hawke

And I thought you had a degree in Poly Sci. The Federal government's
rights and powers are limited. See the U.S. Constitution for
details. Also Congress and the president have limited powers even
though people vote for the president and members of Congress.

Dan

[Harold Burton]

In article
<3b9131da-080f-4418...@er9g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,

Same reason we always hear them from the whining leftards.


snicker

[Harold Burton]

In article
<7cb6e401-22f2-441e...@dc2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,

> If you noticed, I and millions of liberals are still laughing at you.

Much like I and millions of conservatives are still laughing at you.


snicker

[Gunner Asch]

Atheism..just another faith based religious belief.


--
"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry
capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency.
It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an
Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense
and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have
such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the
fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of
fools that made him their prince".

[pyotr filipivich]

Nope. It is a pre existing condition.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next Month's Panel: Suicide - getting it right the first time.

[pyotr filipivich]

Let the Record show that Klaus Schadenfreude
<klausscha...@yahoo.com> on or about Sat, 21 Apr 2012 05:20:16
-0700 did write, type or otherwise cause to appear in
talk.politics.guns the following:
>>pyotr filipivich <ph...@mindspring.com> wrote in talk.politics.guns :
>
>>Let the Record show that "Mark Clarke" <Natur...@bass.gov> on or
>>about Fri, 20 Apr 2012 15:25:33 -0400 did write, type or otherwise
>>cause to appear in talk.politics.guns the following:
>>>First, TMT is being a moron after Lookout and DooDoo...
>>>
>>>"Klaus Schadenfreude" wrote in message
>>>news:25b3p794ep4n2p02r...@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>>Too_Many_Tools <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in talk.politics.guns :
>>>
>>>>Conservatives love to bitch about Obamacare....until they benefit from
>>>>it.
>>>>
>>>>I know of a number of local big mouth conservatives who bitch publicly
>>>>from Obamacare while personally benefiting from it financially.
>>>
>>>Name them.
>>>
>>>>Our local conservative hypocrite Gummer is a good example.
>>>
>>>Cite how he has benefited from Obamacare. Be specific.
>>>
>>>>When will conservatives admit that when one out of four people in the
>>>>United States have no health insurance and are destroying this
>>>>Country's health system, a change needs to happen.
>>>
>>>That change just isn't Obamacare. When will you leftists admit that
>>>Obamacare doesn't come CLOSE to solving the actual problem?
>>
>> First they would have to recognize what the actual problem is.
>
>As they see it, not enough people are getting "free" stuff.
>
>>Which they are incapable of doing, as the problem is the Leftist
>>Utopian Dream of a Society Where All Are Equal. Which hasn't happened
>>since Adam and the woman left the Garden.
>
>They won't get the reference. Let's keep it simple. Not enough people
>getting free stuff. That's the job of the government, as they see it.
>
>Provide free stuff.
>
>And especially promise me free stuff before the election. I'll believe
>you.

I can provide them with a Free Watch, made with the latest in
Stealth Technology. Just $9.99 for shipping and handling.

But wait, there is more. The new line of winter clothing, the
Obama Special Suit! So lightweight and comfortable, you will swear it
is like wearing nothing at all! Just $29,95 plus shipping and
handling.
But we're not done yet. Due to the new Barney Frank Option, you
can move into this new house made with the latest in Green Technology.
Yes, using a special reinforcing technology and 100% post consumer
fiber, the Barney Frank "Instahouse" can be delivered to your
apartment, shelter, or under your current overpass! You too can
impress your friends with your new EcoHome, completely off grid and
entirely solar heated. Lower your carbon footprint with Franken House
- Greenhouse for a green century!
How do you get all this Free Stuff? Simply text your SSN to
INneedsHelp and all this will be shipped to you - Free! A monthly fee
of $20.21 will be added to your cell phone bill to help defray
shipping and handling costs.

[max headroom]

Hawke <davesm...@digitalpath.net> wrote in news:jmv0ao$tk4$1...@speranza.aioe.org:

> The government has the right...

Wrong. The government has no rights; it has delegated authority from we the people, and we the
people can rescind that delegation. The government can have no power that we the people don't
originally possess.

> ... and the power to take your freedom away

> from you and your life. Why in the world would you think it can't

> require you to join in a communal health care network?...

Where does the Constitution authorize that?

> ... That seems a no brainer as far as what the government can do....

I agree, but probably not in the same way as you do.

> ... Of course the government can do that. Especially when you know the people voted for

> representatives who are doing what they majority wants.

What they THOUGHT the majority wanted... until the elections of November, 2010, when they were
replaced.

Poll after poll shows ObamaCare to be unpopular, with the majority wanting it repealed.

[max headroom]

Jeff M <NoS...@NoThanks.org> wrote in news:z6idncaf_8Eukg7S...@giganews.com:

>>> LOL...the activist justice argument is a conservative whine...and I am
>>> still laughing how Obama rubbed the collective conservative nose in
>>> THEIR activist justice argument...

>> Hmmmmm, are you suggesting that Obama is using the activist jurist card?
>> After all, he is already using the class warfare one and his followers have
>> been using the racial one.

> They aren't "cards" and he isn't "using" them....

The hell he and the DNC aren't!

> ... Judicial activism (and hypocritical complaints about it), class warfare and racism are all

> quite real and significant issues, worthy of calling attention to and having a national dialogue
> about.

Since when? Whenever conservatives voiced outrage over activist judges in the past, the left and the
press have giggled and basically said, "Oh you knuckleheads! They're just doing their jobs."

Now that Beloved Leader has been shocked to discover that the SCOTUS may NOT rubberstamp his only
notable achievement in three years, he's the knucklehead.

Rather than rubbing conservatives' noses in the 'activist judges' label, Beloved Leader was whining
about having his own nose being rubbed.

And we laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed some more.

[Alim Nassor]

On Apr 20, 7:10 pm, Just Me <mutantmachin...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Apr 20, 4:03 pm, Jeff M <NoS...@NoThanks.Org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Judicial activists in the Supreme Court
>
> > By E.J. Dionne Jr., Published: March 28
>

> > “It’s about freedom from our obligations to one another . . . the

Check out the hospitals in countries where the government insures
everyone. I've been in an ER in Italy that made my skin crawl at how
bad it was, and this wa snot in the sticks, it was in a decent sized
city in the North. it was filthy and so far behind the times that
your hospital bracelet was a piece of paper taped to your wrist with
you name written on it in magic marker. Bloody bandages in the floor,
the sheets on the gurney's weren't even changed between patients.
I've also been to 2 hospitals in Malaysia and one in Thailand that
were worse.

[Alim Nassor]

On Apr 20, 4:27 pm, Just Me <mutantmachin...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Apr 20, 1:21 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:3cda0cc0-8778-
> > 4e71-98a1-2aaabe187...@w7g2000vbg.googlegroups.com:
> > > On Apr 20, 2:44 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
> > > wrote:
> > >> Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:307ea815-2479-
> > >> 404a-8142-4a804e32d...@fv28g2000vbb.googlegroups.com:

>
> > >> > Conservatives love to bitch about Obamacare....until they benefit
> > from
> > >> > it.
>
> > >> > I know of a number of local big mouth conservatives who bitch
> > publicly
> > >> > from Obamacare while personally benefiting from it financially.
>

> > >> > Our local conservative hypocrite Gummer is a good example.
>

> > >> Care to show that the benefits that he has received were NOT available
> > >> without Obamacare?  Take all the screens you need.......

>
> > >> > When will conservatives admit that when one out of four people in
> > the
> > >> > United States have no health insurance and are destroying this
> > >> > Country's health system, a change needs to happen.
>

> > >> That doesn't mean that the answer is an individual mandate.

>
> > >> --
>
> > >> If it weren't for my lawyer, I still be in prison.
> > >> It went a lot faster with two people digging!!
>
> > >> Joe Martin
>
> > >> Sleep well, tonight.....
>

> > >> RD (The Sandman)
>
> > > Care to show that the benefits that Gummer has received were
> > > available
> > > with Bushcare?  Take all the screens you need.......
>
> > I am not the one who made the claim, asshole.  That is so typical of you
> > and your side.....make a claim and then run away from proving it.
>
> > > The answer IS an individual mandate...even Mitt Romney the author of
> > > Romneycare knows that.
>
> > And I disagree.  I think some form of single payer is the correct
> > answer.....Medicare for everyone, at least for catastrophic illnesses.
> > However, I don't like the government telling me what I have to purchase
> > from a private entity.

>
> > --
>
> > If it weren't for my lawyer, I still be in prison.
> > It went a lot faster with two people digging!!
>
> > Joe Martin
>
> > Sleep well, tonight.....
>

> > RD (The Sandman)

>
> Most states have laws requiring you to purchase auto insurance from a
> private entity, how is this different?
> And I happen to agree on some version of single payer medicare for
> all.It seems to work well in the rest of the world.

It's different because this kind of thing is legal for the states to
do, but not the federal government

[Klaus Schadenfreude]

Well, I WANT all that stuff, but you keep talking about money as if I
have to, you know, PAY for it.

[RogerN]

>"Hawke" wrote in message news:jmv0im$v26$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
<snip>

>
>Here's a fact you will have to deal with. When your life is over and you
>>are ready for the grave you will find that your "lord" has not shown up.
>You'll be dead and no god will have intervened in anything. Fools have been
>predicting that for thousands of years. They have a lousy record. No god

>has ever shown his face in human history. But you are expecting it. And you
>think we are the dreamers?
>
>Hawke

How do you know that God hasn't shown up in human history? Do you believe,
by blind faith, that the Biblical accounts are not true because you haven't
seen evidence to otherwise? If I tell you I have something, but don't offer
proof that I have it, then you can believe me based on faith or believe I'm
lying. However, what you believe has no effect on the facts if I have said
item or not. Likewise, you not believing the Bible has no effect on whether
or the events claimed in the Bible actually happened or not.

I suspect that you also believe that people going to church have never seen
any evidence for their beliefs, but you would be wrong again. Many people
think that just because the TV miracle working preachers are fake, that
every instance of those types of miracles are fake. Most, if not all, the
miracle working TV preachers are out for money, and as Jesus said, you can't
serve money and God. The counterfeits use deceitful methods to appear to
perform miracles that they may have seen or heard of in reality. Just like
if you're going to counterfeit money, you might want to make a bill that has
a real equivalent, $30 bills might raise suspicion. So, just because some
people have counterfeited $20 bills, does that mean that all $20 bills are
fake? Or does that indicate the existence of real $20 bills, since there
would be no point in counterfeiting something that doesn't exist for real.

Where I normally go to church, when I go: They started up as a small home
Bible study group. Outgrew the home meetings and met in a Day Care center
during non-business hours. They had prophecies that they would someday
build a church south of town. (A priest represents the people to God, a
prophet speaks words from God to the people) The presence of God was felt
in a day care meeting, the room was filled with a supernatural fog. After
years they purchased a corn field south of town and built a church and
Christian school. The man that lived across the street told them that his
grandmother used to say that God told her that someday there was going to be
a church in that cornfield across the street. They have seen many miracles
over the years, healings, things like those that were told about in the book
of Acts.

The bottom line is that your entire world view is based on a foundation of
lies that you believe. I spent over 20 years of my life in a Church that
basically didn't believe in, and didn't see, miracles for today. I know
about faith without evidence and I also know about faith with evidence,
having experienced first hand miracles myself.

RogerN

[RogerN]

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
news:fhp6p79ebs8uvnu7b...@4ax.com...

On Sat, 21 Apr 2012 17:43:30 -0400, "Scout"
<me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:

>
>
>"Hawke" <davesm...@digitalpath.net> wrote in message

<snip>

>>
>> Here's a fact you will have to deal with. When your life is over and you
>> are ready for the grave you will find that your "lord" has not shown up.
>> You'll be dead and no god will have intervened in anything. Fools have
>> been predicting that for thousands of years. They have a lousy record. No
>> god has ever shown his face in human history.
>
>Please prove this assertion of yours.
>
>
Atheism..just another faith based religious belief.

Not only does he have great faith for his religion, he has faith that the
claims of others are wrong. That's fine for their personal beliefs but then
they force their beliefs on others. Even that wouldn't be so bad but the
direction liberals try to take us is just a regurgitation and repackaging of
ideas that have always failed in the past.

Obama is a miserable failure but the blind can't see it. His greatest
accomplishment, Obamacare, is unconstitutional do to the individual mandate
and the cost has already doubled.

RogerN

[Ed Huntress]

On Sun, 22 Apr 2012 08:54:31 -0500, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net>
wrote:

FWIW, Roger, there's isn't a true statement in your entire post. It's
one extended, delusional Gunnerism.

That's not intended as an invitation to an argument, it's just an
interjection for the sake of getting the facts straight.

If you want to argue, though, go ahead.

--
Ed Huntress

[Just Me]

And I've been in hospitals in the US that are worse that you just
described, and your point is ?
You don't have a point, except to grasp a straws, in a feeble attempt
to "prove" that government manged single payer insurance bad bad bad.
You will find nasty hospitals everywhere you go.

[Alim Nassor]

Every nasty hospital I've ever seen in the US is a public hospital.
Not all public hospitals are nasty, but I've never seen a bad private
hospital.

[Jeff M]

On 4/22/2012 9:55 AM, Alim Nassor wrote:
[snip]

>>> Check out the hospitals in countries where the government insures
>>> everyone. I've been in an ER in Italy that made my skin crawl at how
>>> bad it was, and this wa snot in the sticks, it was in a decent sized
>>> city in the North. it was filthy and so far behind the times that
>>> your hospital bracelet was a piece of paper taped to your wrist with
>>> you name written on it in magic marker. Bloody bandages in the floor,
>>> the sheets on the gurney's weren't even changed between patients.
>>> I've also been to 2 hospitals in Malaysia and one in Thailand that
>>> were worse.
>>
>> And I've been in hospitals in the US that are worse that you just
>> described, and your point is ?
>> You don't have a point, except to grasp a straws, in a feeble attempt
>> to "prove" that government manged single payer insurance bad bad bad.
>> You will find nasty hospitals everywhere you go.
>
> Every nasty hospital I've ever seen in the US is a public hospital.
> Not all public hospitals are nasty, but I've never seen a bad private
> hospital.

Just curious - are you using ANY actual clinical criteria or standard
indices of quality of care and patient outcomes to form your opinion, or
or you relying on your own impressions of what you've seen in the public
areas of hospitals you've visited?

In my experience, private hospitals often spend a lot of money to
"stage" their public areas quite nicely, sometimes at the expense of the
operational elements of the hospital that matter most. Fortunately,
good clinical evaluative tools do exist, and things such as patient
outcomes, infection rates, surgical complications, adverse incidents and
accidents are measurable and reportable, and those data are usually
accessible to the public.

[Alim Nassor]

I was pretty clear that I was stating what I have seen myself.

[Jeff M]

Thank you. You said so, but I wanted to be sure you didn't have more,
left unsaid.

Nonetheless, I think you see my point. With a limited, often very
limited, budget, public hospitals have to make sometimes difficult
choices about what to spend their money on. Fortunately, they are free
from the need to return a profit to their investors and the demands
imposed by marketing themselves, so they are able to spend money on
those things that make the greatest impact on their patients, assuming
they choose wisely. Consequently, the linoleum in the waiting room may
be worn and dingy, or the paint in the hallways drab and ugly, but that
tells you exactly nothing about the quality of care patients receive.

In the final analysis, there are very good and very bad hospitals to be
found in the public, private charitable and for-profit sectors, and the
quality of care they deliver is not determined by how they are
ultimately financed.

[RD Sandman]

Too_Many_Tools <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:7cb6e401-22f2-441e...@dc2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com:

> On Apr 21, 3:13 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>> Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote
>> innews:abc3cc30-68dc-40c0

> -a4d3-0b4...@z3g2000vbk.googlegroups.com:

If you amounted to any degree of worthiness, I might have noticed....but
you haven't.

[RD Sandman]

Too_Many_Tools <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:3b9131da-080f-4418...@er9g2000vbb.googlegroups.com:

> On Apr 21, 3:23 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>> Jeff M <NoS...@NoThanks.org> wrote

>> innews:z6idncaf_8Eukg7SnZ2dnUVZ_rudnZ2
> d...@giganews.com:

Perhaps, it is because you are too stupid to recognize the facts. Or,
perhaps, too biased to do so.

[RD Sandman]

Too_Many_Tools <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:7f343b37-4c84-4709...@d4g2000vbn.googlegroups.com:

Think!! I know you aren't accustomed to doing that, but try......

> Use lots of white space.

Why? You don't when challenged.....you just kinda disappear into the
woodwork.

[RD Sandman]

Alim Nassor <alimn...@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:dfdb571d-db3e-4443...@po5g2000pbb.googlegroups.com:

Besides there is no universal requirement for me to buy insurance
(private sector) or even have a drivers license (public sector), for that
matter.

[pyotr filipivich]

Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> on Fri, 20 Apr 2012 19:20:00 -0700
typed in misc.survivalism the following:

>On Fri, 20 Apr 2012 18:09:59 -0400, "Phil Kangas"
><pka...@upalphacomm.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>You need auto ins. _if_ you have a car.
>

>You need auto insurance -IF_ you drive that car on a public
>roadway...only.
>
>So its NOT a given that owning a car means you have to buy insurance.

WTH, I only made sure the insurance was current after I got the
girlfriend. Me, I'll take the chances. For her ... I do the right
things. (Gurlz is funny dat way, dey get you doink all kinds weird
things. Keeping the insurance current. Taking baths regularly.
Cooking real food.)
>
>And given the numbers of illegal aliens who not only dont have
>insurance..but no drivers license either..and refuse to get
>either....millions in fact......
>
>
>Gunner
--
pyotr filipivich
Old farts these days - not like when I was a boy! We used to
have us Real Geezers in those days! Now, they'll let anybody
with a little gray hair be an old fart!

[pyotr filipivich]

Let the Record show that Klaus Schadenfreude

<klausscha...@yahoo.com> on or about Sun, 22 Apr 2012 02:47:22

Don't worry. It is all Free. It says so, right on the Box. You
pay Nothing for the Free House, the Free suit, the new Free clothes,
the free watch, and the high screed deaf TV are absolutely Free.
(there is a minor processing charge to expedite deliver. You'll
hardly notice it.)

We're just ripping off the Other Guy, and passing the savings
along to You!

[Klaus Schadenfreude]

I'll need an interest free loan for that.

> We're just ripping off the Other Guy, and passing the savings
>along to You!

As long as it's The Other Guy, that's cool!

____

"You don't dictate what I do, klaus. And
I have no responsibility to respond to
YOUR demand."

-Lookout, putting on his running shoes
when asked to provide proof of one of his
claims

Fri, 20 Apr 2012

[Gray Guest]

Just Me <mutantm...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:207301bf-6c63-4158-b7da-
ee5e8c...@p4g2000pby.googlegroups.com:

>> > > It fell to the court’s liberals — the so-called â
> �œjudicial activists,”

>> > > Anthony Kennedy even hinted that it might be more “honestâ
> � if government

>> > > simply used “the tax power to raise revenue and to just have
> a national
>> > > health service, single-payer.” Remember those words.
>>
>> > > One of the most astonishing arguments came from Roberts, who spoke
wi
> th
>> > > alarm that people would be required to purchase coverage for issues
t
> hey
>> > > might never confront. He specifically cited “pediatric servic
> es” and
>> > > “maternity services.”
>>
>> > > Well, yes, men pay to cover maternity services while women pay for
>> > > treating prostate problems. It’s called health insurance. Wou
> ld it be
>> > > better to segregate the insurance market along gender lines?
>>
>> > > The court’s right-wing justices seemed to forget that the bes
> t argument
>> > > for the individual mandate was made in 1989 by a respected
conservati
> ve,
>> > > the Heritage Foundation’s Stuart Butler.
>>

>> > > “If a man is struck down by a heart attack in the street,â
> � Butler said,

I find THAT statment hard to beleive. Would you care to tell us spefically
which hospitals YOU are referring to? That are filthier and less organized
than hospitals in Italy, Thailand and Malaysia?

--
I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to
be sure.

What I like about this attitude is it works equally well for Iran and the
Democrat National Covention.

http://nukeitfromorbit.com/

[Gray Guest]

Alim Nassor <alimn...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:dfdb571d-db3e-4443-a25a-
1ab2b1...@po5g2000pbb.googlegroups.com:

I happen to not neccesarily agree that this is right or legal either. I get
the reasoning behind it, compelled responsiblity, but I'm not sure I agree
with that either.

[Gray Guest]

RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net> wrote in
news:XnsA03D687BF...@216.196.121.131:

And yes there is that "out".

[Too_Many_Tools]

> were worse.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

It is more common than you think.

TMT

[Too_Many_Tools]

On Apr 22, 10:23 am, Jeff M <NoS...@NoThanks.Org> wrote:

> accessible to the public.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Jeff...you make an excellent points about using the proper judging
critera...do you have any links to where public vs. private hosipitals
are compared on the parameters you mentioned...I would love to see
them.

TMT

[Too_Many_Tools]

On Apr 22, 6:38 am, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net> wrote:
> >"Hawke"  wrote in messagenews:jmv0im$v26$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

Roger...while I respect the right of others to believe what they want,
trying to push their beliefs on to me will require the minimum of
PROOF-PROOF-PROOF.

The bottom line is that your entire world view is based on a

foundation of hearsay that you believe.

So be it.

Just don't expect the rest of us to.

TMT

[Hawke]

On 4/21/2012 2:43 PM, Scout wrote:
>
>
> "Hawke" <davesm...@digitalpath.net> wrote in message

> news:jmv0im$v26$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>> On 4/20/2012 10:33 PM, RogerN wrote:
>>>> "Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
>>>> news:e95310d7-ae8b-452e...@a5g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 20, 6:03 pm, Jeff M<NoS...@NoThanks.Org> wrote:
>>> <snip>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/activist-judges-on-trial/2012/...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I along with millions of other Americans are still laughing about how
>>>> Obama rubbed the collective conservative nose in their own judicial
>>>> activist argument.
>>>>
>>>> Laugh..laugh..laugh...
>>>>
>>>> TMT
>>>
>>> Again you have the truth so twisted that your laughing at your own
>>> stupidity.
>>>
>>> The lefttards use judicial legislation to change the law by
>>> redefining what
>>> things mean, making laws mean what they never meant since the
>>> foundation of
>>> the country, and stupid judges buy into it. But when the lefttards
>>> come up
>>> with something that really is unconstitutional, the lefttards don't
>>> want the
>>> judges to declare it unconstitutional. Remember Pelosi saying that they
>>> needed to pass Obamacare to find out what's in it? Remember Obama taking
>>> Democrats behind closed doors and bribing them for their vote?
>>> Remember Ted
>>> Kennedy being replaced by a Republican thanks to Obamacare? Remember
>>> Obama
>>> causing many Democrats to loose their job in 2010 elections?
>>>
>>> The Bible said lefttards would prosper until nearly destroying the
>>> world,
>>> why do you marvel at their success? The only thing that will keep
>>> lefttards
>>> from completely destroying the entire world will be that God will
>>> directly
>>> intervene. I just enjoy seeing how it's all coming together, Bible
>>> prophecy
>>> is being fulfilled right before our eyes and the left can't even see
>>> that
>>> they are heading straight down the path of destruction full speed ahead.
>>> I'm not laughing because it's horrible to see you jumping off the diving
>>> board into the lake of fire, and you're so blinded that you think it's a
>>> swimming pool.
>>>
>>> Here's a secret, the final form of government will be a dictatorship.
>>>
>>> RogerN

>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Here's a fact you will have to deal with. When your life is over and
>> you are ready for the grave you will find that your "lord" has not
>> shown up. You'll be dead and no god will have intervened in anything.
>> Fools have been predicting that for thousands of years. They have a
>> lousy record. No god has ever shown his face in human history.
>

> Please prove this assertion of yours.

That's asking to prove a negative. I said god has not shown his face to
man in the history of mankind. If he had there would be a record of it.
Do you know where a record of god showing himself to man can be found
and I don't mean the bible, koran, or any religion's book? I say it
can't because it has never happened.

Hawke

[Hawke]

On 4/21/2012 12:27 PM, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
> On Apr 21, 2:21 pm, Deucalion<some...@nowhere.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 21 Apr 2012 12:16:05 -0700, Hawke
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <davesmith...@digitalpath.net> wrote:
>>> On 4/20/2012 5:10 PM, Just Me wrote:

>>>>> “It’s about freedom from our obligations to one another .?.?. the

>>> No, that's just business 101. Business has always seen labor as just one
>>> of the means of production and ultimately profits. Human need has never
>>> figured into the calculations of corporations. The funny thing is that
>>> when people were chewed up and spit out by corporations in the early
>>> 1900s that reforms would change the way business operated. As we all can
>>> see, nothing has changed. Business wants no unions, no government
>>> regulation, and no rules to prevent them from treating humans like
>>> inanimate objects. Some enlightened folks have changed from this model
>>> but by and large business treats workers like they always have, as
>>> disposable resources.
>>
>>> A great example of this was the slave owners that had sugar plantations.
>>> They knew they would kill most of their slaves in 8 years of overworking
>>> them but they would break even in 4 or 5 so it was a winning situation
>>> for them. They never took into account the slaves were humans. To me
>>> that's how I see many businessmen. If you don't keep a leash on them
>>> they will make slaves of everyone but their friends and families.
>>
>>> Hawke
>>
>> That was well said and so true.- Hide quoted text -

>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>

> Agreed
>
> TMT




Hey TMT,

While you were gone a new guy has popped up calling himself George
Plimpton and he's been making one baseless claim after another and
demanding proof for everything I say. One of his claims is that no one
here ever agrees with me or ever has. I told him that is not true. I
told him that he was wrong, and he's always wrong, and that, yes, people
have agreed with me over the years plenty of times and he just didn't
know it because he hasn't been around very long, which he denied. I know
you have been here a long time too. How long have you heard of George
Plimpton? I say he's lying about being here a long time. In addition,
here is proof in this post that someone does agree with my point of
view. I would like him to see that but he's a libertarian so even if you
prove to him he's wrong he just ignores it and moves on to something
else to criticize you on. I don't know if you've run into him yet but
the pleasure will not be yours.

Hawke

[Too_Many_Tools]

On Apr 22, 8:54 am, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net> wrote:
> "Gunner Asch"  wrote in message
>
> news:fhp6p79ebs8uvnu7b...@4ax.com...
>
> On Sat, 21 Apr 2012 17:43:30 -0400, "Scout"
>

> <me4g...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>
> >"Hawke" <davesmith...@digitalpath.net> wrote in message

> <snip>
>
> >> Here's a fact you will have to deal with. When your life is over and you
> >> are ready for the grave you will find that your "lord" has not shown up.
> >> You'll be dead and no god will have intervened in anything. Fools have
> >> been predicting that for thousands of years. They have a lousy record. No
> >> god has ever shown his face in human history.
>
> >Please prove this assertion of yours.
>
> Atheism..just another faith based religious belief.
>
> Not only does he have great faith for his religion, he has faith that the
> claims of others are wrong.  That's fine for their personal beliefs but then
> they force their beliefs on others.  Even that wouldn't be so bad but the
> direction liberals try to take us is just a regurgitation and repackaging of
> ideas that have always failed in the past.
>
> Obama is a miserable failure but the blind can't see it.  His greatest
> accomplishment, Obamacare, is unconstitutional do to the individual mandate
> and the cost has already doubled.
>
> RogerN

I disagree Roger...I see an Obama that has been very successful
considering the crapola legacy of the previous Administration and the
conservative clowns that have tried to hinder his every effort to
rebuild the Nation.

At this time I will be voting for him in November...and against every
stupid conservative I can.

Obamacare = Romneycare...so get over it.

What failures do you consider Obama responsible for?

TMT

[Too_Many_Tools]

> Hawke- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

LOL...Georgie Boy pops up once and awhile to spew his hatred.

I for one look forward to your posts Hawke...it is refreshing to see
logic and reasoning used in a intelligent discussion....keep fighting
the good fight.

One big tell you can look for from the conservative crazies is when
they go after you in a big way, you are on the right track....The
louder they yell...the more you are right.

TMT

[Hawke]

On 4/21/2012 11:37 AM, RD Sandman wrote:
> Too_Many_Tools<too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in

> news:2142d7df-2921-42d5...@f5g2000vbt.googlegroups.com:

>
>> On Apr 21, 11:53 am, RD Sandman<rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>>> Jeff M<NoS...@NoThanks.Org> wrote
>>> innews:RoOdnQu7F88SdwzSnZ2dnUVZ_j6dnZ2
>> d...@giganews.com:
>>>

>>>> Judicial activists in the Supreme Court
>>>
>>>> By E.J. Dionne Jr., Published: March 28
>>>

>>> Just who are the activist justices depends on which side of the issue
>>> you happen to be on and whose side wins.
>>>

>>> --
>>>
>>> If it weren't for my lawyer, I still be in prison.
>>> It went a lot faster with two people digging!!
>>>
>>> Joe Martin
>>>
>>> Sleep well, tonight.....
>>>
>>> RD (The Sandman)
>>

>> LOL...the activist justice argument is a conservative whine...and I am
>> still laughing how Obama rubbed the collective conservative nose in
>> THEIR activist justice argument...
>
> Hmmmmm, are you suggesting that Obama is using the activist jurist card?
> After all, he is already using the class warfare one and his followers have
> been using the racial one.

That's only because of who he's competing against. If you have to
compete against republicans you have to throw out all the rules. You
know they will be doing everything including cheating so you have to
play the same way. If you try to play nice they will cut your throat.
You have to know that going in when you have to go up against republicans.

Hawke

[Too_Many_Tools]

On Apr 22, 3:16 pm, Hawke <davesmith...@digitalpath.net> wrote:
> On 4/21/2012 11:37 AM, RD Sandman wrote:
>
>
>
>
>

> > Too_Many_Tools<too_many_to...@yahoo.com>  wrote in

> Hawke- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

LOL...Obama commented on the activist jurist theme aka conservative
talking point to highlight their obvious hypocrisy.

Worked like a charm.

It was also Debate 101.

The fact that the Right did not have any defense laid out in advance
just shows how incredibly stupid the GOP leadership is.

TMT

[Hawke]

On 4/21/2012 12:10 PM, RD Sandman wrote:
> Hawke<davesm...@digitalpath.net> wrote in news:jmv0ao$tk4$1
> @speranza.aioe.org:

>
>> On 4/20/2012 3:09 PM, Phil Kangas wrote:
>>> "Just Me"

>>> Most states have laws requiring you to purchase
>>> auto insurance from a
>>> private entity, how is this different?
>>> And I happen to agree on some version of single
>>> payer medicare for
>>> all.It seems to work well in the rest of the
>>> world.
>>>
>>>

>>> You need auto ins. _if_ you have a car. You need a
>>> building permit
>>> _if_ you are building. The gov't cannot force
>>> every American to send
>>> monthly payments for life to a private for profit
>>> company, period.
>>> Don't do it and you are fined (not taxed) for not
>>> following the law.
>>> phil k.
>>
>>
>> The government has the right and the power to take your freedom away

>> from you and your life. Why in the world would you think it can't
>> require you to join in a communal health care network? That seems a no
>> brainer as far as what the government can do. Of course the government
>> can do that. Especially when you know the people voted for
>> representatives who are doing what they majority wants.
>
> I don't think the majority is in favor of the individual mandate. We
> shall see in June what the Supreme Court thinks of it.
>


The individual mandate is not that relevant really. It's really about
whether as a nation we decide to have some kind of national system to
care for the health of our citizens. Most people do want that. But most
people don't know enough about the issue and the problems involved to
understand what is the best way to do it. So since most people have
health insurance from their work they think that is the way to go. If
they knew more they would see the only way to keep it cheap enough to
cover us all, and we are all covered one way or another, is with a
universal coverage of some kind.

If you mandate buying health insurance you get everyone covered. If you
set up a single payer you get everyone covered. What Americans want is
for all of us to have health coverage of some kind. The method we use in
not that important as long as we get something that includes all of us.
But as far a whether the government has the constitutional right to
involve itself in a kind of commerce (health care) that is nearing 20%
of all American commerce, of course it does.

I don't like the mandate either. I think the single payer is the best
way to deal with health care. So do most of the other countries that are
not still in the stone age.

Hawke

[max headroom]

Hawke <davesm...@digitalpath.net> wrote in news:jn1mcc$33u$1...@speranza.aioe.org:

>>> Here's a fact you will have to deal with. When your life is over and
>>> you are ready for the grave you will find that your "lord" has not
>>> shown up. You'll be dead and no god will have intervened in anything.
>>> Fools have been predicting that for thousands of years. They have a
>>> lousy record. No god has ever shown his face in human history.

>> Please prove this assertion of yours.

> That's asking to prove a negative. I said god has not shown his face to

> man in the history of mankind. If he had there would be a record of it....

Why do you assume that?

> ...Do you know where a record of god showing himself to man can be found
> and I don't mean the bible, koran, or any religion's book?...

Wouldn't such a record be, by definition, a religious document?

> ... I say it can't because it has never happened.

Prove it.

[Hawke]

On 4/21/2012 2:42 PM, Scout wrote:


>> The government has the right and the power to take your freedom away
>> from you and your life.
>

> Not without due process.


I'm just wondering why it is you think you would get any sort of
fairness because you received legal due process. We have all kinds of
people in GITMO that got due process. That doesn't mean they got
justice. If they had why would we have had to let so many go? They got
the process, lost their freedom for years, and were just let go. Nothing
just about it, but they got the full due process. If you think that
means anything you don't know the legal system. It means as much as a
restraining order against a crazy husband, which is nothing.

> Why in the world would you think it can't
>> require you to join in a communal health care network?
>

> Where's my due process....when am I going to be accused of a crime and
> get my day in court?

Yep, you get your day in court and your trial. But it's Texas, you're a
black man, you have an incompetent public defender who is sleeping
during you trial, and you've been accused of a crime by a white person.
So sure, you get your day in court. Care to predict how that's going to
turn out regardless of whether you are guilty or not? So you see that
reality and what you thought was a just legal process are not the same
thing. What you get in reality is often a lot different from what you
thought a fair legal system would give you.

> Did I answer your question?

More important is do you see what I'm driving at?


Hawke

[Hawke]

On 4/21/2012 3:24 PM, RD Sandman wrote:
> "Scout"<me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
> news:jmv9l4$ns5$1...@dont-email.me:

>
>>
>>
>> "Hawke"<davesm...@digitalpath.net> wrote in message

>> news:jmv0ao$tk4$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

>>> On 4/20/2012 3:09 PM, Phil Kangas wrote:
>>>> "Just Me"
>>>> Most states have laws requiring you to purchase
>>>> auto insurance from a
>>>> private entity, how is this different?
>>>> And I happen to agree on some version of single
>>>> payer medicare for
>>>> all.It seems to work well in the rest of the
>>>> world.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You need auto ins. _if_ you have a car. You need a
>>>> building permit
>>>> _if_ you are building. The gov't cannot force
>>>> every American to send
>>>> monthly payments for life to a private for profit
>>>> company, period.
>>>> Don't do it and you are fined (not taxed) for not
>>>> following the law.
>>>> phil k.
>>>
>>>

>>> The government has the right and the power to take your freedom away
>>> from you and your life.
>>
>> Not without due process.
>

> Or violating the Constitution.

It's a good thing that never happens!

>> Why in the world would you think it can't
>>> require you to join in a communal health care network?
>>
>> Where's my due process....when am I going to be accused of a crime and
>> get my day in court?
>>

[Jeff M]

Not on this computer, but you should have no trouble Googling up a
variety of sites that offer hospital ratings, from both government and
commercial evaluations.