An addition to Trevor Tosspot's Porky List
John-Melb
*I have a friend who can STOP his heart
*Their is ample evidence to support the fact that possession of an
inanimate object is capable of altering a cognitive persons intent
*The FBI-UCR for the years 1976-86 are available on the FBI web-site
*My local library has Lott's work in the fiction section
*20% of Australian homes possess firearms
*I only deal in facts
*The firearms related murder rate in the US is 10,000,000 PA.
*gun licences back in the 1920s led to a drop in the murder rate,
*How the British 1903 Pistol Act was enacted and enforced in
Australia prior to Federation.
*How an audit of Government owned arms at Sydney Cove in 1796 was a
gun control law
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now we have
On Jun 18, 12:54 pm, "Trevor Wilson"
<tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote:
**Yes. Easily. Across the US, each year, there are hundreds of 'gun
shows'. At these 'gun shows' dealers, posing as private citizens sell
thousands of guns to criminals. They can do so, because there are
virtually zero restrictions on the sale of 'second hand' guns. Even if
that gun has only been 'second hand' for a couple of minutes and has
never been fired.
----------------------------------------------------------
KR
Criminals will get their hands on anything and everything illegal you
want to name.
Look at the drug laws, yet there is no shortage of drugs on the
street,
despite the penalties and attempts to stop it. Same with the alcohol
prohibition,
what a failure that was, in USA and Russia. Black markets spring up
like weeds in
any prohibition you want to poke a stick at.
Anything you want that is illegal is available for a price / effort.
You would have to have to be extremely naive, insane, or have an
agenda to say otherwise.
> ----------------------------------------------------------
You could also look at the TW literary classic "I made a cheese
sandwich" on aus hi fi.
While it doesn't look like his work, at first glance, the posting
history of this account
going back some years shows many posts from the same poster that do
look exactly like his current ones.
Trevor Wilson
"KR" <kenre...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:79b11fe0-7407-4098...@r31g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 22, 8:32 am, John-Melb <mcnamara_j...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Criminals will get their hands on anything and everything illegal you
want to name.
**Not necessarily. Guns, in Australia, are far more expensive than they are
in the US. As a consequence, only relatively wealthy criminals have them.
The average junkie cannot afford a (hand) gun.
Look at the drug laws, yet there is no shortage of drugs on the
street,
despite the penalties and attempts to stop it.
**Prove it. Present your hard proof that drug laws have not reduced the
availability of drugs. You claim is bogus and you should know it. Despite
DUI laws, we still have drunk drivers. Despite laws against homicide, we
still have homicides. Despite laws against bank robbing, some people still
rob banks. Are you trying to suggest that, because all these (and many
other) laws are not 100% effective, that they are useless? Is that your
claim?
Same with the alcohol
prohibition,
what a failure that was, in USA and Russia. Black markets spring up
like weeds in
any prohibition you want to poke a stick at.
**Sometimes they do. Sometimes they don't. If the prohibition laws were
sufficiently enforced and, more specifically, corruption in law enforcement
was rooted out, then those laws would have acheived much what they set out
to do. If you don't believe that prohibition can work, then I suggest you
travel to Saudi Arabia and chug a six pack on a public street.
Anything you want that is illegal is available for a price / effort.
You would have to have to be extremely naive, insane, or have an
agenda to say otherwise.
**That was my point. In the US, a used, cheap handgun sells for as little as
US$50.00, through legal channels. Here in Australia, they are MUCH more
expensive. This restricts the number of handguns in the hands of low level
criminals. It does not eliminate ALL guns from the hands of ALL criminals.
> ----------------------------------------------------------
You could also look at the TW literary classic "I made a cheese
sandwich" on aus hi fi.
While it doesn't look like his work, at first glance, the posting
history of this account
going back some years shows many posts from the same poster that do
look exactly like his current ones.
**I find it hugely amusing to see just how stupid people can be. Those who
have been suckered by the imposter are truly and irrevocably stupid. Were
you sucked in by the imposter? I know John McNamara (aka: John-Melb) was. He
has an excuse. He a moron.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
John - Melb
that dealers are posing as private citizens to sell guns to criminals
at gun shows, without the necessary background checks, despite being
provided with evidence that this activity is illegal.
Clearly, Trevor has some evidence that this is going on.
I guess this shows exactly the sort of person Trevor is, he has
evidence of a crime being committed, but fails to report that criminal
activity to the relevant authorities, despite the threat this criminal
activity poses to public safety, because the continuance of this
criminal activity allows Trevor to ride his favourite political hobby-
horse on Usenet.
Pathetic, truely pathetic.
Gray Ghost
news:7a87h3F...@mid.individual.net:
>
> "KR" <kenre...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:79b11fe0-7407-4098...@r31g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 22, 8:32 am, John-Melb <mcnamara_j...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Criminals will get their hands on anything and everything illegal you
> want to name.
>
> **Not necessarily. Guns, in Australia, are far more expensive than they
> are in the US. As a consequence, only relatively wealthy criminals have
> them. The average junkie cannot afford a (hand) gun.
To bad the facts aren't with you.
http://www.examiner.com/x-2879-Austin-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m4d8-
Australia-experiencing-more-violent-crime-despite-gun-ban
So you're a racist who doesn't think people who are poor should be able to
buy a gun for protection. Only the rich folks should.
>
>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> You could also look at the TW literary classic "I made a cheese
> sandwich" on aus hi fi.
>
> While it doesn't look like his work, at first glance, the posting
> history of this account
> going back some years shows many posts from the same poster that do
> look exactly like his current ones.
>
> **I find it hugely amusing to see just how stupid people can be. Those
> who have been suckered by the imposter are truly and irrevocably stupid.
> Were you sucked in by the imposter? I know John McNamara (aka: John-Melb)
> was. He has an excuse. He a moron.
>
>
--
Always remember:
Bull Connor was a Democrat!
Blinky Bill
"Gray Ghost" <grey_ghost47...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9C31ED9587B59We...@216.196.97.142...
> "Trevor Wilson" <tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in
> news:7a87h3F...@mid.individual.net:
>
>>
>> "KR" <kenre...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:79b11fe0-7407-4098...@r31g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>> On Jun 22, 8:32 am, John-Melb <mcnamara_j...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Criminals will get their hands on anything and everything illegal you
>> want to name.
>>
>> **Not necessarily. Guns, in Australia, are far more expensive than they
>> are in the US. As a consequence, only relatively wealthy criminals have
>> them. The average junkie cannot afford a (hand) gun.
>
> To bad the facts aren't with you.
>
> http://www.examiner.com/x-2879-Austin-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m4d8-
> Australia-experiencing-more-violent-crime-despite-gun-ban
What part of those lies and misrepresentations do you think refutes the
claim that "The average junkie cannot afford a (hand) gun."?
Trevor Wilson
"John - Melb" <mcnama...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:eaf35a3b-8ec1-45d4...@y10g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
**LOL! You're the pathetic one. Do some research. Start here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole#The_.22Gun_show_loophole.22
From 2004 to 2006, ATF conducted surveillance and undercover investigations
at 195 gun shows (approximately 2% of all shows). Specific targeting of
suspected individuals (77%) resulted in 121 individual arrests and 5,345
firearms seizures. Seventy nine of the 121 ATF operation plans were known
suspects previously under investigation. [2]
Additionally, ATF Field Offices report that:
a.. Between 2002 and 2005, more than 400 guns legally purchased at gun
shows from licensed dealers in the city of Richmond, Virginia, were later
recovered in connection with criminal activity. Bouchard notes that, "These
figures do not take into account firearms that may have been sold at
Richmond area gun shows by unlicensed sellers, as these transactions are
more difficult to track."[1] It is noteworthy that the "in connection with
criminal activity" category includes stolen guns later recovered from
burglaries, but the report does not specify how many guns in the 400 gun
figure cited were not guns used in the commission of a crime, but that were
rather the fruits of criminal activity.
b.. The Department of Justice reports, "after reviewing hundreds of trace
reports associated with guns used in crime recovered in the [New Orleans]
area and interviewing known gang members and other criminals, ATF Special
Agents identified area gun shows as a source used by local gang members and
other criminals to obtain guns."[2]
c.. In 2003 and 2004, the San Francisco ATF Field Division conducted six
general operations at Reno, Nevada, guns shows to investigate interstate
firearms trafficking. During these operations, "agents purchased firearms
and identified violations related to "off paper" sales, sales to
out-of-state residents, and dealing in firearms without a license." The "ATF
seized or purchased 400 firearms before making arrests and executing search
warrants, which resulted in the seizure of an additional 600 firearms and
the recovery of explosives."[2]
d.. ATF's Columbus Field Division conducted its anti-trafficking
operations based on intelligence from Cleveland police that "many of the
guns recovered in high-crime areas of the city had been purchased at local
gun shows." Subsequent gun show sting operations resulted in the seizure of
"5 guns, one indictment, and two pending indictments for felony possession
of a firearm." The state of Ohio is one of the top ten source states for
recovered guns used in crime.[2]
e.. The ATF's Phoenix Field Division reported that "many gun shows
attracted large numbers of gang members from Mexico and California. They
often bought large quantities of assault weapons and smuggled them into
Mexico or transported them to California."[2] Garen Wintemute, a professor
at the University of California at Davis, calls Arizona and Texas a
"gunrunner's paradise."
Also see:
And:
http://www.vpc.org/studies/tupfour.htm
And:
http://www.bradycenter.org/xshare/pdf/reports/shady-dealings.pdf
And:
http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/html/federal/gun_show.shtml
"
a.. "The law does not, however, require so-called occasional sellers to do
these checks - and there-s no clear definition of what qualifies as an
occasional seller.2
a.. Many sellers at gun shows abuse that loophole by calling themselves
occasional sellers. Because they concentrate at gun shows, it is easy for
felons and other prohibited possessors to find someone who will sell to them
without a background check."
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
John - Melb
wrote:
> "John - Melb" <mcnamara_j...@hotmail.com> wrote in messagenews:eaf35a3b-8ec1-45d4...@y10g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I note Trevor failed to provide any evidence to support his assertion
> > that dealers are posing as private citizens to sell guns to criminals
> > at gun shows, without the necessary background checks, despite being
> > provided with evidence that this activity is illegal.
>
> > Clearly, Trevor has some evidence that this is going on.
>
> > I guess this shows exactly the sort of person Trevor is, he has
> > evidence of a crime being committed, but fails to report that criminal
> > activity to the relevant authorities, despite the threat this criminal
> > activity poses to public safety, because the continuance of this
> > criminal activity allows Trevor to ride his favourite political hobby-
> > horse on Usenet.
>
> > Pathetic, truely pathetic.
>
> **LOL! You're the pathetic one. Do some research. Start here:
So, you make an assertion and I'm expected to do the research
to support that assertion?
Sorry, your strawman, you burn it.
Research I've seen indicates less than 1% of guns recovered following
a
crime can be sourced to gun shows.
None of which supports your claim that licenced dealers are selling
at
gunshows without conducting background checks.
keithr
>
> **That was my point. In the US, a used, cheap handgun sells for as little as
> US$50.00, through legal channels. Here in Australia, they are MUCH more
> expensive. This restricts the number of handguns in the hands of low level
> criminals. It does not eliminate ALL guns from the hands of ALL criminals.
Even in the US, a $50 gun is likely to be more dangerous to the firer
than the firee.
fritz
John - Melb <mcnama...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:eaf35a3b-8ec1-45d4...@y10g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
Gun-lover = one who has a truly pathetic personal disorder
Gray Ghost
news:h1ora1$djm$00$1...@news.t-online.com:
Gun hater - a person who has a fear of inanimate objects and retarded sexual
and emotional maturity and a indicator of Hoplophobia.
Hoplophobia (n.): The irrational fear of weapons, correctly described by
Freud as "a sign of emotional and sexual immaturity". Hoplophobia, like
homophobia, is a displacement symptom; hoplophobes fear their own
"forbidden" feelings and urges to commit violence. This would be
harmless, except that they project these feelings onto others. The
sequelae of this neurosis include irrational and dangerous behaviors
such as passing "gun-control" laws and trashing the Constitution.
Trevor Wilson
On Jun 22, 2:21 pm, "Trevor Wilson" <tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au>
wrote:
> "John - Melb" <mcnamara_j...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> messagenews:eaf35a3b-8ec1-45d4...@y10g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I note Trevor failed to provide any evidence to support his assertion
> > that dealers are posing as private citizens to sell guns to criminals
> > at gun shows, without the necessary background checks, despite being
> > provided with evidence that this activity is illegal.
>
> > Clearly, Trevor has some evidence that this is going on.
>
> > I guess this shows exactly the sort of person Trevor is, he has
> > evidence of a crime being committed, but fails to report that criminal
> > activity to the relevant authorities, despite the threat this criminal
> > activity poses to public safety, because the continuance of this
> > criminal activity allows Trevor to ride his favourite political hobby-
> > horse on Usenet.
>
> > Pathetic, truely pathetic.
>
> **LOL! You're the pathetic one. Do some research. Start here:
<SNIP>
So, you make an assertion and I'm expected to do the research
to support that assertion?
**What I expect form any decent human (which clearly leaves you out) is a
polite request to provide soem evidence back a claim. Even though you
rarely, if ever, supply similar evidence to back your nonsense.
Sorry, your strawman, you burn it.
Research I've seen indicates less than 1% of guns recovered following
a
crime can be sourced to gun shows.
Here is the evidence which you need to read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole#The_.22Gun_show_loophole.22
And:
http://www.vpc.org/studies/tupfour.htm
And:
http://www.bradycenter.org/xshare/pdf/reports/shady-dealings.pdf
And:
http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/html/federal/gun_show.shtml
None of which supports your claim that licenced dealers are selling
at
gunshows without conducting background checks.
**Here's how it works:
Gun dealer sells gun to legal gun buyer (someone who will pass the federal
checks). Legal gun buyer then on-sells that gun to whomever he wants to,
since that person, not being a gun dealer, does not have to run a federal
check. It is a well known scam, that the NRA and gun dealers do not want
shut down, because it will affect their bottom line. The laws surrounding
secondary sales of guns in the US are generally extremely weak and
unenforced. Remember how the Columbine shooters acquired some of their
weapons?
Of course you don't.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Trevor Wilson
"keithr" <ke...@nowhere.com.au> wrote in message
news:4a3f668f$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
**Perhaps. Nonetheless, cheap handguns are responsible for a very large
number of homicides in the US each year. I would certainly not stand at the
wrong end of such a gun. Would you?
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
John - Melb
> Gun-lover = one who has a truly pathetic personal disorder
Sorry to disappoint you and jar your prejudices so badly, but I'm not
into loving inanimate objects.
John - Melb
wrote:
> "John - Melb" <mcnamara_j...@hotmail.com> wrote in messagenews:8a18737b-9b64-441c...@u9g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 22, 2:21 pm, "Trevor Wilson" <tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "John - Melb" <mcnamara_j...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> > messagenews:eaf35a3b-8ec1-45d4...@y10g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
>
> > >I note Trevor failed to provide any evidence to support his assertion
> > > that dealers are posing as private citizens to sell guns to criminals
> > > at gun shows, without the necessary background checks, despite being
> > > provided with evidence that this activity is illegal.
>
> > > Clearly, Trevor has some evidence that this is going on.
>
> > > I guess this shows exactly the sort of person Trevor is, he has
> > > evidence of a crime being committed, but fails to report that criminal
> > > activity to the relevant authorities, despite the threat this criminal
> > > activity poses to public safety, because the continuance of this
> > > criminal activity allows Trevor to ride his favourite political hobby-
> > > horse on Usenet.
>
> > > Pathetic, truely pathetic.
>
> > **LOL! You're the pathetic one. Do some research. Start here:
>
> <SNIP>
>
> So, you make an assertion and I'm expected to do the research
> to support that assertion?
>
> **What I expect form any decent human (which clearly leaves you out) is a
> polite request to provide soem evidence back a claim. Even though you
> rarely, if ever, supply similar evidence to back your nonsense.
>
Don't expect it Trevor, demonstrate it, I play by your rules remember.
> Sorry, your strawman, you burn it.
>
> Research I've seen indicates less than 1% of guns recovered following
> a
> crime can be sourced to gun shows.
>
> Here is the evidence which you need to read:
Oh great, Trevor Tosspot is ow telling me what I "need" to do, who
the fuck died and made you king?
You "need" to stop spreading lies and misinformation.
You "need" to stop vilifying people who have done you (or anybody
else) no wrong.
You "need" to get a life.
> **Here's how it works:
>
> Gun dealer sells gun to legal gun buyer (someone who will pass the federal
> checks). Legal gun buyer then on-sells that gun to whomever he wants to,
> since that person, not being a gun dealer, does not have to run a federal
> check. It is a well known scam, that the NRA and gun dealers do not want
> shut down, because it will affect their bottom line. The laws surrounding
> secondary sales of guns in the US are generally extremely weak and
> unenforced. Remember how the Columbine shooters acquired some of their
> weapons?
>
> Of course you don't.
I'm aware how a so called straw-purchase works fool.
So, the dealer sells to a legal buyer, and your claim that dealers are
posing as private sellers at gun shows to avoid conducting background
checks was bullshit. Why am I not surprised.
Blinky Bill
> "fritz" <fr...@address.com> wrote in
> news:h1ora1$djm$00$1...@news.t-online.com:
>
>>
>> John - Melb <mcnama...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:eaf35a3b-8ec1-45d4...@y10g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
>>> I note Trevor failed to provide any evidence to support his assertion
>>> that dealers are posing as private citizens to sell guns to criminals
>>> at gun shows, without the necessary background checks, despite being
>>> provided with evidence that this activity is illegal.
>>>
>>> Clearly, Trevor has some evidence that this is going on.
>>>
>>> I guess this shows exactly the sort of person Trevor is, he has
>>> evidence of a crime being committed, but fails to report that criminal
>>> activity to the relevant authorities, despite the threat this criminal
>>> activity poses to public safety, because the continuance of this
>>> criminal activity allows Trevor to ride his favourite political hobby-
>>> horse on Usenet.
>>
>> Gun-lover = one who has a truly pathetic personal disorder
>>
>>
>>
>
> Gun hater - a person who has a fear of inanimate objects and retarded
> sexual
> and emotional maturity and a indicator of Hoplophobia.
>
> Hoplophobia (n.): The irrational fear of weapons, correctly described by
> Freud as "a sign of emotional and sexual immaturity".
Except that Freud never said any such thing. That is not a quote of Freud,
it is a paraphrase of a statement made by Don B Kates.
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Sigmund_Freud
Refer to "misattributed".
What is true is that another prominent psychoanalyst (Emmanuel Tanay) wrote
of ""Neurotic Attachment to Guns" which describes you gun loons perfectly.
>Hoplophobia, like
> homophobia, is a displacement symptom; hoplophobes fear their own
> "forbidden" feelings and urges to commit violence. This would be
> harmless, except that they project these feelings onto others.
Which seems much more acceptable than the behaviour of gunloons who use
their weapons to act out their urges to commit violence.
Trevor Wilson
"Gray Ghost" <grey_ghost47...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9C32B2A694790We...@216.196.97.142...
> news:h1ora1$djm$00$1...@news.t-online.com:
>
>>
>> John - Melb <mcnama...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:eaf35a3b-8ec1-45d4...@y10g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
>>> I note Trevor failed to provide any evidence to support his assertion
>>> that dealers are posing as private citizens to sell guns to criminals
>>> at gun shows, without the necessary background checks, despite being
>>> provided with evidence that this activity is illegal.
>>>
>>> Clearly, Trevor has some evidence that this is going on.
>>>
>>> I guess this shows exactly the sort of person Trevor is, he has
>>> evidence of a crime being committed, but fails to report that criminal
>>> activity to the relevant authorities, despite the threat this criminal
>>> activity poses to public safety, because the continuance of this
>>> criminal activity allows Trevor to ride his favourite political hobby-
>>> horse on Usenet.
>>
>> Gun-lover = one who has a truly pathetic personal disorder
>>
>>
>>
>
> Gun hater - a person who has a fear of inanimate objects and retarded
> sexual
> and emotional maturity and a indicator of Hoplophobia.
**I know of no person who "hates" inanimate objects. Perhaps you'd care to
cite some verifiable examples. I won'
t hold my breath.
>
> Hoplophobia (n.): The irrational fear of weapons, correctly described by
> Freud as "a sign of emotional and sexual immaturity".
**Repeating a lie, does not make it truth. Whilst I'm certain there are some
people who do fear weapons, I can't say I've ever met anyone who does. OTOH,
I know a goodly number of people who do fear a nutter who is holding a gun
at them. Perhaps you could cite some people who fear weapons. I won't hold
my breath.
Hoplophobia, like
> homophobia, is a displacement symptom; hoplophobes fear their own
> "forbidden" feelings and urges to commit violence.
**Bollocks. This is projection, based on a flawed descriptor.
This would be
> harmless, except that they project these feelings onto others. The
> sequelae of this neurosis include irrational and dangerous behaviors
> such as passing "gun-control" laws and trashing the Constitution.
**What is wrong with good, strong, sane gun control laws? Do you feel that
criminals, drunks, drug addicts and nutters should have unfettered access to
firearms? Why do you feel that altering the US Constitution (which has been
done many times in the past) to reflect common sense, logic and the progress
of technology represents a "trashing of the Constitution"?
I look forward to seeing the answers to these questions.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Gray Ghost
>
> "Gray Ghost" <grey_ghost47...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9C32B2A694790We...@216.196.97.142...
>> "fritz" <fr...@address.com> wrote in
>> news:h1ora1$djm$00$1...@news.t-online.com:
>>
>>>
>>> John - Melb <mcnama...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:eaf35a3b-8ec1-45d4...@y10g2000prc.googlegroups.com..
>>> .
>>>> I note Trevor failed to provide any evidence to support his assertion
>>>> that dealers are posing as private citizens to sell guns to criminals
>>>> at gun shows, without the necessary background checks, despite being
>>>> provided with evidence that this activity is illegal.
>>>>
>>>> Clearly, Trevor has some evidence that this is going on.
>>>>
>>>> I guess this shows exactly the sort of person Trevor is, he has
>>>> evidence of a crime being committed, but fails to report that criminal
>>>> activity to the relevant authorities, despite the threat this criminal
>>>> activity poses to public safety, because the continuance of this
>>>> criminal activity allows Trevor to ride his favourite political hobby-
>>>> horse on Usenet.
>>>
>>> Gun-lover = one who has a truly pathetic personal disorder
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Gun hater - a person who has a fear of inanimate objects and retarded
>> sexual and emotional maturity and a indicator of Hoplophobia.
>
> **I know of no person who "hates" inanimate objects. Perhaps you'd care
> to cite some verifiable examples. I won'
> t hold my breath.
>
Clearly you fear them and fear leds to hate.
>>
>> Hoplophobia (n.): The irrational fear of weapons, correctly described by
>> Freud as "a sign of emotional and sexual immaturity".
>
> **Repeating a lie, does not make it truth. Whilst I'm certain there are
> some people who do fear weapons, I can't say I've ever met anyone who
> does. OTOH, I know a goodly number of people who do fear a nutter who is
> holding a gun at them. Perhaps you could cite some people who fear
> weapons. I won't hold my breath.
>
Nope that's your forte. How;s your buddy that can stop his hjeart to take a
shot?
> Hoplophobia, like
>> homophobia, is a displacement symptom; hoplophobes fear their own
>> "forbidden" feelings and urges to commit violence.
>
> **Bollocks. This is projection, based on a flawed descriptor.
Constatnly projecting what others they don't know would do and the raging
threats by antis on this group would seem to prove you wrong. Again.
>
> This would be
>> harmless, except that they project these feelings onto others. The
>> sequelae of this neurosis include irrational and dangerous behaviors
>> such as passing "gun-control" laws and trashing the Constitution.
>
> **What is wrong with good, strong, sane gun control laws? Do you feel
> that criminals, drunks, drug addicts and nutters should have unfettered
> access to firearms? Why do you feel that altering the US Constitution
> (which has been done many times in the past) to reflect common sense,
> logic and the progress of technology represents a "trashing of the
> Constitution"?
Trevor I'm not going down this raod with you. Your "facts" and assumptions
are grossly flawed, your desire for government to dictate your life is well
known and your inability to be truthful or back up your assertion is well
documented. I would sooner argue with Weasel
You're an idiot. Get used to it.
>
> I look forward to seeing the answers to these questions.
>
>
--
Trevor Wilson
**Projection. For the record: I have fired guns. I do not fear them.
>
>>>
>>> Hoplophobia (n.): The irrational fear of weapons, correctly described by
>>> Freud as "a sign of emotional and sexual immaturity".
>>
>> **Repeating a lie, does not make it truth. Whilst I'm certain there are
>> some people who do fear weapons, I can't say I've ever met anyone who
>> does. OTOH, I know a goodly number of people who do fear a nutter who is
>> holding a gun at them. Perhaps you could cite some people who fear
>> weapons. I won't hold my breath.
>>
>
> Nope that's your forte. How;s your buddy that can stop his hjeart to take
> a
> shot?
**Inability to respond rationally, duly noted. SOP. I accept that you know
no one who fears guns.
>
>> Hoplophobia, like
>>> homophobia, is a displacement symptom; hoplophobes fear their own
>>> "forbidden" feelings and urges to commit violence.
>>
>> **Bollocks. This is projection, based on a flawed descriptor.
>
> Constatnly projecting what others they don't know would do and the raging
> threats by antis on this group would seem to prove you wrong. Again.
**Nope. You cited the flawed descriptor and then went on to project your own
opinions, based on that flawed descriptor.
>
>>
>> This would be
>>> harmless, except that they project these feelings onto others. The
>>> sequelae of this neurosis include irrational and dangerous behaviors
>>> such as passing "gun-control" laws and trashing the Constitution.
>>
>> **What is wrong with good, strong, sane gun control laws? Do you feel
>> that criminals, drunks, drug addicts and nutters should have unfettered
>> access to firearms? Why do you feel that altering the US Constitution
>> (which has been done many times in the past) to reflect common sense,
>> logic and the progress of technology represents a "trashing of the
>> Constitution"?
>
> Trevor I'm not going down this raod with you.
**I'll allow you another opportunity to answer the questions. If you fail to
do so, then we will all know, full well, that you are full of shit. Here are
the questions:
* What is wrong with good, strong, sane gun control laws?
* Do you feel that criminals, drunks, drug addicts and nutters should have
unfettered access to firearms?
* Why do you feel that altering the US Constitution (which has been done
many times in the past) to reflect common sense, logic and the progress of
technology represents a "trashing of the Constitution"?
Your "facts" and assumptions
> are grossly flawed, your desire for government to dictate your life is
> well
> known and your inability to be truthful or back up your assertion is well
> documented.
**Projection, projection, projection. Try to cite some facts once in awhile,
rather than projecting your opinions.
> I would sooner argue with Weasel
**Just answer the questions, else risk being targetting as a fool. You're
(apparently) making a case for lax, incoherent, poorly policed gun control
laws. You need to answer the above questions, if you are to make a case for
such an experiment.
>
> You're an idiot. Get used to it.
**This, coming from one who cannot answer simple questions, is rich.
>
>>
>> I look forward to seeing the answers to these questions.
**Still waiting.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
atec 7 7
Gray Ghost
My God you are easy.
Please cite statistic for homicides by firearms type inckuding cost of
handgun.
You can, can't you or as i replies yesterday you're just an ignorant
blowhard. Out of the killfile until answered you hoplophobe.
John - Melb
wrote:
> * What is wrong with good, strong, sane gun control laws?
and
> **Projection, projection, projection. Try to cite some facts once in awhile,
> rather than projecting your opinions.
This'll be good, Trevor tells another that he shouldn't project an
opinion, at the same time expecting that other post to answer a
question based on Trevor's opoinion?
So tell us Trevor, who says Australian's gun laws are "good, stong or
sane"?
Are laws which allow criminals charged with illegal possession of an
automatic pistol to "get off" if the serial number is ground of the
weapon "good, strong or sane"?
Are laws which place an antique pinfire, for which ammunition hasn't
been commercially available since before the First World War, under
the same class of licence as a modern handgun "good, strong or sane"?
Are laws which base the security required for ammunition storage not
on the damage that could be caused if that ammuntion was stolen, but
on the class of licence the ammunition is held under, whereby,
ammuntion held on one type of licence is subject to greater storage
requirements than identical ammuntion held on a different type of
licence, "good, strong and sane"?
> * Do you feel that criminals, drunks, drug addicts and nutters should have
> unfettered access to firearms?
That depends on who's defining "criminals, drunks, drug addicts and
nutters", you've previously described me as all four.
r_c_...@hushmail.com
wrote:
> "Gray Ghost" <grey_ghost471-newsgro...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:Xns9C333361FA65We...@216.196.97.142...
>
>
>
> > "Trevor Wilson" <tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in
> >news:7aanffF...@mid.individual.net:
>
> >>news:Xns9C32B2A694790We...@216.196.97.142...
> >>> "fritz" <fr...@address.com> wrote in
> >>>news:h1ora1$djm$00$1...@news.t-online.com:
>
Nothing. Of course, what constitutes those laws needs to meet
Constitutional standards and general agreement.
> * Do you feel that criminals, drunks, drug addicts and nutters should have
> unfettered access to firearms?
None of these groups - with a couple of possible exceptions - have
unfettered access to firearms now.
Exceptions might include ex-criminals. Ex-felons are generally barred
from firearm ownership, so I'm thinking more of misdemeanor offenses
wherein the person has served their time.
Another exception might be "nutters", since the term is unclear.
People who are adjudicated as potentially harmful to themselves or
others due to a psychological disease - what I am currently assuming
you mean by "nutter" - are already barred from firearm ownership.
> * Why do you feel that altering the US Constitution (which has been done
> many times in the past) to reflect common sense, logic and the progress of
> technology represents a "trashing of the Constitution"?
>
The Constitution has been amended 27 times. Amendments have been
proposed thousands of times, and failed. The Constitution was set up
to be amendable, but not easily.
What sort of amendment did you have in mind when you asked your
question?
Trevor Wilson
<r_c_...@hushmail.com> wrote in message
news:a3d498e1-5309-4c6f...@d38g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
**Indeed.
> * Do you feel that criminals, drunks, drug addicts and nutters should have
> unfettered access to firearms?
None of these groups - with a couple of possible exceptions - have
unfettered access to firearms now.
**Untrue. In many US jurisdictions, drug addicts, drunks, nutters AND
criminals are able to purchase second hand guns with ease.
Exceptions might include ex-criminals. Ex-felons are generally barred
from firearm ownership, so I'm thinking more of misdemeanor offenses
wherein the person has served their time.
Another exception might be "nutters", since the term is unclear.
People who are adjudicated as potentially harmful to themselves or
others due to a psychological disease - what I am currently assuming
you mean by "nutter" - are already barred from firearm ownership.
> * Why do you feel that altering the US Constitution (which has been done
> many times in the past) to reflect common sense, logic and the progress of
> technology represents a "trashing of the Constitution"?
>
The Constitution has been amended 27 times. Amendments have been
proposed thousands of times, and failed. The Constitution was set up
to be amendable, but not easily.
What sort of amendment did you have in mind when you asked your
question?
**Read my question again.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Trevor Wilson
> "Trevor Wilson" <tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in
> news:7aae1kF...@mid.individual.net:
>
>>
>> "keithr" <ke...@nowhere.com.au> wrote in message
>> news:4a3f668f$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>>> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>
>>>> **That was my point. In the US, a used, cheap handgun sells for as
>>>> little as US$50.00, through legal channels. Here in Australia, they are
>>>> MUCH more expensive. This restricts the number of handguns in the hands
>>>> of low level criminals. It does not eliminate ALL guns from the hands
>>>> of ALL criminals.
>>>
>>> Even in the US, a $50 gun is likely to be more dangerous to the firer
>>> than the firee.
>>
>> **Perhaps. Nonetheless, cheap handguns are responsible for a very large
>> number of homicides in the US each year. I would certainly not stand at
>> the wrong end of such a gun. Would you?
>>
>>
>
> My God you are easy.
>
> Please cite statistic for homicides by firearms type inckuding cost of
> handgun.
**I have no breakdown by cost, but I can certainly supply the other data you
requested:
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_07.html
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Gray Ghost
Unrelated to the question. So once again you make statements which you cannot
backup. How can you expect to be taken seriously? Asshole.
I note a particular asshole trait, changing your identity to defeat
killfiles. This will be the 4th Tosspot identity in my kill file. Just die
and do everyone a favor you lieing sack of shit.
Trevor Wilson
**I suggest you read the cite again. Don't be so rude when I supply what you
ask for.
>
> I note a particular asshole trait, changing your identity to defeat
> killfiles. This will be the 4th Tosspot identity in my kill file. Just die
> and do everyone a favor you lieing sack of shit.
**Huh? Perhaps you need someone to explain to you how to use your
newsreader.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
atec 7 7
come one wilson!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
John - Melb
Failure by Trevor to make any attempt to actually answer the questions
put to him is noted.
Alan Rutlidge
** Clearly there is no love lost between you and TW.
** However your constant goading isn't scoring you any Brownie points.
John - Melb
<don't_spam_me_rutli...@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> ** Clearly there is no love lost between you and TW.
> ** However your constant goading isn't scoring you any Brownie points
So, you're saying it's OK for Trevor Tosspot to vent when questions
put by him are ignored, but not OK for Trevor to be reminded of
questions he has ignored? Am I correct?
I ain't looking for your Brownie points, or your approval. Don't like
it, take it up with Tosspot, he chose the "field"
APR
"Trevor Wilson" <tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:7ab46hF...@mid.individual.net...
>
> **Projection. For the record: I have fired guns. I do not fear them.
>
I am very suprised Trevor. Why would you fire a gun given the vitriol you
have spat out here regarding gun use and ownership. You using a gun brings
feelings of extreme cynicism, why would a wanker like you even pick up a
gun. You are lucky you didn't seriously hurt yourself
>>
>>> **Repeating a lie, does not make it truth. Whilst I'm certain there are
>>> some people who do fear weapons, I can't say I've ever met anyone who
>>> does. OTOH, I know a goodly number of people who do fear a nutter who is
>>> holding a gun at them. Perhaps you could cite some people who fear
>>> weapons. I won't hold my breath.
>>>
Trevor, I know far more people who are prepared to express their concern at
the level of violence being seen on the streets of a night time, such that
they don't willingly go out after dark. This has nothing to do with guns but
more to do with a lack of enforced law and order. Why don't you start
wheeling this barrow.
>>> **What is wrong with good, strong, sane gun control laws? Do you feel
>>> that criminals, drunks, drug addicts and nutters should have unfettered
>>> access to firearms? Why do you feel that altering the US Constitution
>>> (which has been done many times in the past) to reflect common sense,
>>> logic and the progress of technology represents a "trashing of the
>>> Constitution"?
>>
Trevor, it is just that your type seem to believe that total control is the
only way to go. What do you say about those people who want to use guns for
sports/recreational shooting. Note that the majority of sports/recreational
shooters use their guns on private farm properties where irresponsible use
will result in them being ejected with no chance of returning in the future.
>
> **I'll allow you another opportunity to answer the questions. If you fail
> to do so, then we will all know, full well, that you are full of shit.
> Here are the questions:
>
> * What is wrong with good, strong, sane gun control laws?
Nothing, however, there is an issue with what nutters consider to be "good,
strong, sane gun control laws" and what really might be good, strong and
sane gun control laws.
> * Do you feel that criminals, drunks, drug addicts and nutters should have
> unfettered access to firearms?
No I don't, however, there are a mass of other issues that I believe should
be preferentially addressed by control authorities and are not being
addressed appropriately, viz, law and order re general violence on the
streets..
> * Why do you feel that altering the US Constitution (which has been done
> many times in the past) to reflect common sense, logic and the progress of
> technology represents a "trashing of the Constitution"?
>
Why is it that your interpretation of what constitutes "common sense, logic
and the progress of technology" is the penultimate interpretation.
>
> **Just answer the questions, else risk being targetting as a fool. You're
> (apparently) making a case for lax, incoherent, poorly policed gun control
> laws. You need to answer the above questions, if you are to make a case
> for such an experiment.
>
No Trevor, There are many scenarios that can result in a person being
targetted as a fool. Not answering quewstions from a fool is not necessarily
one of them
>
> **Still waiting.
> Trevor Wilson
> www.rageaudio.com.au
Not wasting my time waiting for a non-event..
Trevor Wilson
"APR" <I_Don't_W...@Spam.com> wrote in message
news:4a41f47f$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>
> "Trevor Wilson" <tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
> news:7ab46hF...@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> **Projection. For the record: I have fired guns. I do not fear them.
>>
>
> I am very suprised Trevor.
**Why?
Why would you fire a gun given the vitriol you
> have spat out here regarding gun use and ownership.
**What "vitriol" would that be? Be VERY precise in your answer and cite my
PRECISE words. DO NOT PARAPHRASE nor project your own opinions. Cite my
words.
You using a gun brings
> feelings of extreme cynicism, why would a wanker like you even pick up a
> gun. You are lucky you didn't seriously hurt yourself
**Why? What makes you imagine that I am unaware of the risks of using a gun?
Again, be precise in your answer.
>
>>>
>>>> **Repeating a lie, does not make it truth. Whilst I'm certain there are
>>>> some people who do fear weapons, I can't say I've ever met anyone who
>>>> does. OTOH, I know a goodly number of people who do fear a nutter who
>>>> is
>>>> holding a gun at them. Perhaps you could cite some people who fear
>>>> weapons. I won't hold my breath.
>>>>
> Trevor, I know far more people who are prepared to express their concern
> at the level of violence being seen on the streets of a night time, such
> that they don't willingly go out after dark.
**Fair enough. There are some places in my city that I would not walk in at
night. That is just common sense. I am wondering about this alleged fear of
guns.
This has nothing to do with guns but
> more to do with a lack of enforced law and order. Why don't you start
> wheeling this barrow.
**Because the claims were:
* That there are people who are afraid of guns.
* That I am afraid of guns.
THAT is the topic under discussion. Walking around dangerous neighbourhoods
at night is a whole different matter. It is also based on some degree of
hard evidence. Some areas of most large cities are 'no go' zones for many
people for a variety of reasons. Should it be that way? Certainly not. It
would be much better that large cities are like Tokyo. I've wandered all
over Tokyo at all sorts of odd hours and never felt any fear in doing so.
>
>
>>>> **What is wrong with good, strong, sane gun control laws? Do you feel
>>>> that criminals, drunks, drug addicts and nutters should have unfettered
>>>> access to firearms? Why do you feel that altering the US Constitution
>>>> (which has been done many times in the past) to reflect common sense,
>>>> logic and the progress of technology represents a "trashing of the
>>>> Constitution"?
>>>
> Trevor, it is just that your type seem to believe that total control is
> the only way to go.
**Bullshit. Sane gun control is just that: Sane.
What do you say about those people who want to use guns for
> sports/recreational shooting.
**I have no objection to anyone (in Australia) using guns for legal
recreational purposes. EXCEPT duck shooting. I personally object to that. I
have no problem with target shooting. I have no problem with vermin
elimination (in fact, I vigorously encourage it - it is a shame that the
blood thirsty psychopaths who shoot ducks, do not turn their weapons towards
feral pigs, cats, foxes, cane toads and dogs). PROVIDED those gun owners
obey the relevant laws in doing so and in weapons storage.
Note that the majority of sports/recreational
> shooters use their guns on private farm properties where irresponsible use
> will result in them being ejected with no chance of returning in the
> future.
**I am well aware of that.
>
>>
>> **I'll allow you another opportunity to answer the questions. If you fail
>> to do so, then we will all know, full well, that you are full of shit.
>> Here are the questions:
>>
>> * What is wrong with good, strong, sane gun control laws?
>
> Nothing, however, there is an issue with what nutters consider to be
> "good, strong, sane gun control laws" and what really might be good,
> strong and sane gun control laws.
**Examine the gun control laws in the US, for an example of insane,
haphazard and weak gun control laws.
>
>> * Do you feel that criminals, drunks, drug addicts and nutters should
>> have unfettered access to firearms?
>
> No I don't, however, there are a mass of other issues that I believe
> should be preferentially addressed by control authorities and are not
> being addressed appropriately, viz, law and order re general violence on
> the streets..
**What violence on our streets? Australia has approximately similar levels
of street violence as most other Western, develpoed Democratic nations.
Which is not to say, that we should not try to reduce that violence. We
should. Severe restrictions on alcohol trading would go a long way to
solving many of these problems. As would getting tough on bikie gangs and
other groups. I have zero problem with VERY tough penalties on ANY violent
crime.
>
>> * Why do you feel that altering the US Constitution (which has been done
>> many times in the past) to reflect common sense, logic and the progress
>> of technology represents a "trashing of the Constitution"?
>>
>
> Why is it that your interpretation of what constitutes "common sense,
> logic and the progress of technology" is the penultimate interpretation.
**Who said it was? Let me set out the scenario for you:
When the 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution was framed, the folllowing was
extant:
* Dangerous slaves needed to be kept in check (Thomas Jefferson owned more
than 200 slaves). Guns were vital for this task.
* Dangerous and very pissed off natives roamed the countryside. Guns were
essential for the genocide of many US Indian tribes.
* Dangerous animals roamed free. (We, here in Australia, quickly forget that
there have essentially never been any seriously dangerous animals in our
nations. Except for the odd snake, of course).
* Refrigeration was non-existent. Fresh meat had to be killed close to where
it was consumed.
* The firing rate of firearms could be measured in MINUTES, not
milliseconds.
* The cost of a typical firearm easily exceeded six months of average wages.
* Rifling was VERY rare and accuracy was generally very poor.
* Guns were hardly compact (if the equipment necessary for reloading was
also taken into account)
* The nation had no army, as such.
* The nation was ruled by a vicious, colonial power.
OTOH, Now:
* There are no slaves.
* The natives are not quite as angry.
* Dangerous animals are pretty much restricted to national parks and some
very remote areas.
* Not only do we have refrigeration, but we have efficient, fast
refrigerated transport.
* The firing rate of some firearms can be measured in milliseconds. Even low
end guns can be reloaded in a couple of seconds.
* Rifling is very common and accuracy is quite good.
* Modern firearms can be compact, high power, carry many rounds and are
accurate.
* The US has the most powerful fighting force on the planet.
* The US is a completely independent nation.
One can only speculate if the US Founding Fathers may well have altered
their view on the 2dn Amendment, if they knew what is known today.
>
>>
>> **Just answer the questions, else risk being targetting as a fool. You're
>> (apparently) making a case for lax, incoherent, poorly policed gun
>> control laws. You need to answer the above questions, if you are to make
>> a case for such an experiment.
>>
>
> No Trevor, There are many scenarios that can result in a person being
> targetted as a fool. Not answering quewstions from a fool is not
> necessarily one of them
**Incorrect. However, you are entitled to your opinion.
>
>>
>> **Still waiting.
>> Trevor Wilson
>> www.rageaudio.com.au
>
> Not wasting my time waiting for a non-event..
**Nor am I. Idiots don't like answering the hard questions.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Trevor Wilson
> * What is wrong with good, strong, sane gun control laws?
and
> **Projection, projection, projection. Try to cite some facts once in
> awhile,
> rather than projecting your opinions.
This'll be good, Trevor tells another that he shouldn't project an
opinion, at the same time expecting that other post to answer a
question based on Trevor's opoinion?
**It's not an opinion, when it's a fact.
So tell us Trevor, who says Australian's gun laws are "good, stong or
sane"?
**90% of Australians.
Are laws which allow criminals charged with illegal possession of an
automatic pistol to "get off" if the serial number is ground of the
weapon "good, strong or sane"?
**Which laws would they be? Cite them.
Are laws which place an antique pinfire, for which ammunition hasn't
been commercially available since before the First World War, under
the same class of licence as a modern handgun "good, strong or sane"?
**They sure are. Can a gun manufactured before WWI kill humans?
Are laws which base the security required for ammunition storage not
on the damage that could be caused if that ammuntion was stolen, but
on the class of licence the ammunition is held under, whereby,
ammuntion held on one type of licence is subject to greater storage
requirements than identical ammuntion held on a different type of
licence, "good, strong and sane"?
**Yep.
> * Do you feel that criminals, drunks, drug addicts and nutters should have
> unfettered access to firearms?
That depends on who's defining "criminals, drunks, drug addicts and
nutters", you've previously described me as all four.
**If the shoe fits.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Trevor Wilson
**Good one, idiot. I pop inside for my evening meal and you give me 11
minutes to answer your idiotic rants.
Sheesh!
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
John - Melb
wrote:
> "John - Melb" <mcnamara_j...@hotmail.com> wrote in messagenews:665071a8-85f6-4eb8...@u9g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
Check the times again fool...........
John - Melb
wrote:
> "John - Melb" <mcnamara_j...@hotmail.com> wrote in messagenews:94e28834-cb74-4eda...@y6g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 23, 2:32 pm, "Trevor Wilson" <tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au>
> wrote:
>
> > * What is wrong with good, strong, sane gun control laws?
>
> and
>
> > **Projection, projection, projection. Try to cite some facts once in
> > awhile,
> > rather than projecting your opinions.
>
> This'll be good, Trevor tells another that he shouldn't project an
> opinion, at the same time expecting that other post to answer a
> question based on Trevor's opoinion?
>
> **It's not an opinion, when it's a fact.
It is your opinion that a particular set of laws are "good, strong or
sane", but then, you only deal in facts, don't you?
>
> So tell us Trevor, who says Australian's gun laws are "good, stong or
> sane"?
>
> **90% of Australians.
Really, when was that, and what do the people who you mention know
about the gun laws.
>
> Are laws which allow criminals charged with illegal possession of an
> automatic pistol to "get off" if the serial number is ground of the
> weapon "good, strong or sane"?
>
> **Which laws would they be? Cite them.
They would be the 1996 Victorian Firearms Act, as accepted by courts
in Victoria,
read the posted information on aus.politics.guns.
>
> Are laws which place an antique pinfire, for which ammunition hasn't
> been commercially available since before the First World War, under
> the same class of licence as a modern handgun "good, strong or sane"?
>
> **They sure are. Can a gun manufactured before WWI kill humans?
That's not the question I asked idiot, read it again.
>
> Are laws which base the security required for ammunition storage not
> on the damage that could be caused if that ammuntion was stolen, but
> on the class of licence the ammunition is held under, whereby,
> ammuntion held on one type of licence is subject to greater storage
> requirements than identical ammuntion held on a different type of
> licence, "good, strong and sane"?
>
> **Yep.
You're a fool.
John - Melb
wrote:
> **What "vitriol" would that be? Be VERY precise in your answer and cite my
> PRECISE words. DO NOT PARAPHRASE nor project your own opinions. Cite my
> words.
________________________________________________________
On Mar 13 2007, 9:47 am, "Trevor Wilson"
<tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote:
> but your suggestions are surprisingly similar to people like
> TimMcVeyand The Unabomber. They were also people who felt the need to
> divorce themselves from society and discarded the sense of community.
_____________________________________________________
Want me to keep looking?
> **I have no objection to anyone (in Australia) using guns for legal
> recreational purposes. EXCEPT duck shooting. I personally object to that. I
> have no problem with target shooting. I have no problem with vermin
> elimination (in fact, I vigorously encourage it - it is a shame that the
> blood thirsty psychopaths who shoot ducks, do not turn their weapons towards
> feral pigs, cats, foxes, cane toads and dogs). PROVIDED those gun owners
> obey the relevant laws in doing so and in weapons storage.
BULLSHIT!
I haven't shot a duck in over a decade;
I am a target shooter;
The only hunting I do is of vermin species, mostly rabbits and foxes;
Most duck hunters also hunt vermin species;
My storage facilities EXCEED those laid down in the firearms act;
I have never been charged with any criminal offence;
I have never been judged mentally unsound (except by those who have NO
mental health qualifications whatsoever);
And you've claimed how many times people like me should not be allowed
to own guns?
Scout
Trevor Wilson wrote:
> <r_c_...@hushmail.com> wrote in message
> news:a3d498e1-5309-4c6f...@d38g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
>> **I'll allow you another opportunity to answer the questions. If you fail
>> to
>> do so, then we will all know, full well, that you are full of shit. Here
>> are
>> the questions:
>>
>> * What is wrong with good, strong, sane gun control laws?
>
> Nothing. Of course, what constitutes those laws needs to meet
> Constitutional standards and general agreement.
And most, if not all, of what you propose as good, strong, sane gun
control laws do not meet our Constitutional standards, nor do they have
general agreement.
Given that even you admit they need to meed such criteria, why exactly
should anyone give your gun control proposals which lack these even
momentary consideration, much less serious consideration?
John - Melb
wrote:
> **What "vitriol" would that be? Be VERY precise in your answer and cite my
> PRECISE words. DO NOT PARAPHRASE nor project your own opinions. Cite my
> words.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
On Jun 29 2007, 7:27 pm, "Trevor Wilson"
<tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote:
> **And the stupidity just keeps coming.
On Jun 25 2007, 5:22 pm, "Trevor Wilson"
<tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote:
> Your choice. Are you dumber than a rock, or can you find the flaw
On Jun 26 2007, 7:16 pm, "Trevor Wilson"
<tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote:
> **Nope. I consider it bogus and misleading, because it is bogus and
> misleading. But I certainly don't expect you (or John and Benj) to
> understand why. You're far too stupid.
> This post just serves to demonstrate to all, just how dumb you are.
On May 30 2004, 10:40 am, "Trevor Wilson"
<tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote:
> Do read the whole thread, before demonstrating your
> extreme stupidity to the world next time.
On May 28 2004, 9:45 am, "Trevor Wilson"
<tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote:
> **Nope. You STILL have no clue about rhetorical questions. You have not
> exposed any hypocracy (sic) on my part. You merely expose your own
> ignorance.
On May 26 2004, 8:15 am, "Trevor Wilson"
<tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote:
> **Perhaps you did. Now, you just need to understand it. That may take some
> time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All of these responses, citing Trevor's words, were directed at
posters supportive of firearms ownership, there's probably a few
thousand more, but I can't be bothered looking for them.
Of course, then there's the number of times Trevor has been spanked
for telling prokies about gun ownership and gun owners on gun related
groups, only to run away to totally unrelatde groups like
"rec.audio.opinion", "aus.hi-fi", "aus.tv" and "aus.eletronics" where
he has posted rants about guns and gun owners thinking that no-one
there will know enough about the subject matter to challenge him.
He posted this on aus.hi-fi
-------------------------------------------------
On Mar 26 2008, 3:59 pm, "Trevor Wilson"
<trevor@_SPAMBLOCK_rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
> **Indeed. On the whole, however, this group is well behaved. If you want to
> see some real nutty behaviour, visit one of the gun groups. One I
> particularly like is talk.politics.guns. It is largely populated by
> psychopaths. There are a handful of inhabitants who are interested in
> learning some truth, but, on the whole, they rather enjoy stereotyping
> people and cannot accept logic and reason, preferring, instead, rhetoric and
> lies.
>
> Trevor Wilson
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Claiming that a discussion group talking about guns is largely
populated by psychopaths isn't displaying his hate of guns and gun
owners at all, is it?
You will also notice from the dates that Trevor was spitting his
"vitriol", arrogance and hate at gun owners long before I arrived on
the scene.
John - Melb
wrote:
> "John - Melb" <mcnamara_j...@hotmail.com> wrote in messagenews:94e28834-cb74-4eda...@y6g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Are laws which allow criminals charged with illegal possession of an
> automatic pistol to "get off" if the serial number is ground of the
> weapon "good, strong or sane"?
>
> **Which laws would they be? Cite them.
Here you go Trevor, since you're too stupid or too lazy to find the
discussion
-----------------------------------------------------
From Melbourne Herald Sun
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Firearms legal loophole helps Victorian criminals
May 05, 2009 12:00am
ANGLE grinders and a legal loophole are helping violent criminals
beat
Victoria's most serious firearms charge.
A court ruling from two years ago is enabling them to stave off
charges of being a prohibited person in possession of an unregistered
firearm.
In the 2007 case, a court ruled a man charged with that offence be
cleared because the weapon's identifying numbers had been removed.
He was able to successfully argue it could not be established the
Glock semi-automatic pistol at the centre of the case was
unregistered. The charge carries a maximum sentence of 15 years.
It is designed to deter people on the prohibited list from carrying
firearms.
The Herald Sun believes other successful defences against the charge
using the same argument have been mounted since the 2007 decision.
Prosecution of a violent Melbourne criminal on the charge was
withdrawn this year because the gun could not be identified.
A spokesman for Police Minister Bob Cameron said the Government was
talking to Victoria Police.
r_c_...@hushmail.com
wrote:
> <r_c_br...@hushmail.com> wrote in message
As I mentioned, it depends on the definitions of "criminal" and
"nutter".
>
> Exceptions might include ex-criminals. Ex-felons are generally barred
> from firearm ownership, so I'm thinking more of misdemeanor offenses
> wherein the person has served their time.
>
> Another exception might be "nutters", since the term is unclear.
> People who are adjudicated as potentially harmful to themselves or
> others due to a psychological disease - what I am currently assuming
> you mean by "nutter" - are already barred from firearm ownership.
>
> > * Why do you feel that altering the US Constitution (which has been done
> > many times in the past) to reflect common sense, logic and the progress of
> > technology represents a "trashing of the Constitution"?
>
> The Constitution has been amended 27 times. Amendments have been
> proposed thousands of times, and failed. The Constitution was set up
> to be amendable, but not easily.
>
> What sort of amendment did you have in mind when you asked your
> question?
>
> **Read my question again.
>
Okay, I read it again. Now please answer my question.
> --
> Trevor Wilsonwww.rageaudio.com.au
r_c_...@hushmail.com
wrote:
> Trevor Wilson wrote:
> > <r_c_br...@hushmail.com> wrote in message
Er, I haven't proposed any gun control laws. That was Mr. Wilson,
writing in a general and vague sort of way.
Trevor Wilson
<r_c_...@hushmail.com> wrote in message
news:7765e123-cdf0-465b...@d25g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
**Those definitions are not difficult to quantify.
>
> Exceptions might include ex-criminals. Ex-felons are generally barred
> from firearm ownership, so I'm thinking more of misdemeanor offenses
> wherein the person has served their time.
>
> Another exception might be "nutters", since the term is unclear.
> People who are adjudicated as potentially harmful to themselves or
> others due to a psychological disease - what I am currently assuming
> you mean by "nutter" - are already barred from firearm ownership.
>
> > * Why do you feel that altering the US Constitution (which has been done
> > many times in the past) to reflect common sense, logic and the progress
> > of
> > technology represents a "trashing of the Constitution"?
>
> The Constitution has been amended 27 times. Amendments have been
> proposed thousands of times, and failed. The Constitution was set up
> to be amendable, but not easily.
>
> What sort of amendment did you have in mind when you asked your
> question?
>
> **Read my question again.
>
Okay, I read it again.
**Then please explain how I can answer your question, in light of mine.
Now please answer my question.
**Re-read my question.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
John - Melb
Have you checked the times on those two posts yet Trevor Tosspot?
Or is that just another question you refuse to answer?
F Murtz
I wonder, could you please tell me how many people have been killed
recently with pinfire cartridges?
keithr
> "keithr" <ke...@nowhere.com.au> wrote in message
> news:4a3f668f$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> **That was my point. In the US, a used, cheap handgun sells for as little
>>> as US$50.00, through legal channels. Here in Australia, they are MUCH
>>> more expensive. This restricts the number of handguns in the hands of low
>>> level criminals. It does not eliminate ALL guns from the hands of ALL
>>> criminals.
>> Even in the US, a $50 gun is likely to be more dangerous to the firer than
>> the firee.
>
> **Perhaps. Nonetheless, cheap handguns are responsible for a very large
> number of homicides in the US each year. I would certainly not stand at the
> wrong end of such a gun. Would you?
>
>
hand when a cheap pistol blew up in it.
APR
not beyond reproach?? You seem to have a grievance with any
issue/activity/whatever that doesn't meet YOUR criteria.
Trevor, freedom of speech doesn't give unfettered right to malice and
slander. Common decency and ethics, or moral accountability, would prompt
most people to maintain certain standards in their communications with
others.
r_c_...@hushmail.com
Good. Please provide your definitions.
>
>
>
>
> > Exceptions might include ex-criminals. Ex-felons are generally barred
> > from firearm ownership, so I'm thinking more of misdemeanor offenses
> > wherein the person has served their time.
>
> > Another exception might be "nutters", since the term is unclear.
> > People who are adjudicated as potentially harmful to themselves or
> > others due to a psychological disease - what I am currently assuming
> > you mean by "nutter" - are already barred from firearm ownership.
>
> > > * Why do you feel that altering the US Constitution (which has been done
> > > many times in the past) to reflect common sense, logic and the progress
> > > of
> > > technology represents a "trashing of the Constitution"?
>
> > The Constitution has been amended 27 times. Amendments have been
> > proposed thousands of times, and failed. The Constitution was set up
> > to be amendable, but not easily.
>
> > What sort of amendment did you have in mind when you asked your
> > question?
>
> > **Read my question again.
>
> Okay, I read it again.
>
> **Then please explain how I can answer your question, in light of mine.
>
How do you propose to change the Constitution to "reflect common
sense, logic and the progress of technology"?
Look at it from another direction: if I think that the Constitution
already does "reflect common sense, logic and the progress of
technology", and apparently you do not, what needs to change?
Please be specific, as you are fond of writing.
> Now please answer my question.
>
> **Re-read my question.
>
I did; you still haven't answered.
> --
> Trevor Wilsonwww.rageaudio.com.au
John - Melb
You're kidding right, you're attempting to reason with Trevor Tosspot?
For those who don't remember, or don't know, Ardeet brokered a "peace
deal" between
Tosspot and your's truely some time ago, Tosspot lasted two posts
before returning to
his usual "bluff, bluster and bullshit"
He shovels out noting but contempt and lies, and desereves nothing but
contempt and scorn in return.
Trevor Wilson
<r_c_...@hushmail.com> wrote in message
news:8b79bf11-eac1-4190...@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
I'll go one better:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/criminal
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nutter
See #2.
>
>
>
>
> > Exceptions might include ex-criminals. Ex-felons are generally barred
> > from firearm ownership, so I'm thinking more of misdemeanor offenses
> > wherein the person has served their time.
>
> > Another exception might be "nutters", since the term is unclear.
> > People who are adjudicated as potentially harmful to themselves or
> > others due to a psychological disease - what I am currently assuming
> > you mean by "nutter" - are already barred from firearm ownership.
>
> > > * Why do you feel that altering the US Constitution (which has been
> > > done
> > > many times in the past) to reflect common sense, logic and the
> > > progress
> > > of
> > > technology represents a "trashing of the Constitution"?
>
> > The Constitution has been amended 27 times. Amendments have been
> > proposed thousands of times, and failed. The Constitution was set up
> > to be amendable, but not easily.
>
> > What sort of amendment did you have in mind when you asked your
> > question?
>
> > **Read my question again.
>
> Okay, I read it again.
>
> **Then please explain how I can answer your question, in light of mine.
>
How do you propose to change the Constitution to "reflect common
sense, logic and the progress of technology"?
**That is not for me to say, nor do. I am not a US citizen. Only US citizens
may propose such actions.
Look at it from another direction: if I think that the Constitution
already does "reflect common sense, logic and the progress of
technology", and apparently you do not, what needs to change?
**Again: That is not for me to say. I am not a US citizen.
Please be specific, as you are fond of writing.
> Now please answer my question.
>
> **Re-read my question.
>
I did; you still haven't answered.
**Again: Re-read my question.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Trevor Wilson
"APR" <I_Don't_W...@Spam.com> wrote in message
news:4a41f47f$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>
> "Trevor Wilson" <tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
> news:7ab46hF...@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> **Projection. For the record: I have fired guns. I do not fear them.
>>
>
> I am very suprised Trevor.
**Why?
Why would you fire a gun given the vitriol you
> have spat out here regarding gun use and ownership.
**What "vitriol" would that be? Be VERY precise in your answer and cite my
PRECISE words. DO NOT PARAPHRASE nor project your own opinions. Cite my
words.
You using a gun brings
John - Melb
Have you checked the times yet Trevor?
Blinky Bill
On Jun 26, 1:18 pm, "APR" <I_Don't_Want_Spam@no_spam.com> wrote:
> Nuf said Trevor???, or can't you understand that comments by yourself are
> not beyond reproach?? You seem to have a grievance with any
> issue/activity/whatever that doesn't meet YOUR criteria.
>
> Trevor, freedom of speech doesn't give unfettered right to malice and
> slander. Common decency and ethics, or moral accountability, would prompt
> most people to maintain certain standards in their communications with
> others.
You're kidding right, you're attempting to reason with Trevor Tosspot?
=====================================================
It can't be as futile as attempting to reason with you - every time your
lies or hypocrisy are exposed you snip the whole post and run for cover by
inserting an irrelevant comment.
For those who don't remember, or don't know, Ardeet brokered a "peace
deal" between
Tosspot and your's truely some time ago, Tosspot lasted two posts
before returning to
his usual "bluff, bluster and bullshit"
He shovels out noting but contempt and lies, and desereves nothing but
contempt and scorn in return.
======================================================
But don't forget your lies, piggy-shitcan, as well as your own "bluff,
bluster and bullshit" and vitriol.
Here are just a few.
"I do have friends that are gay" .... "Unlike you cock-head, I don't
classify
people on the basis of their sexual orientation"
LMAO No further comment necessary.
"I've never met a gun owner who claims to be able to
diagnose a medical condition over the internet, that interesting
belief appears solely the domain of the anti-gun zealot."
Despite the fact that dozens of web-sites tout the services of on-line
doctors.
"South Australia finished their buyback in Dec 96, all other states had
completed the buy-back process by mid 97."
Despite the fact that even the SSAA says it ended on September 30 1997
http://www.ssaa.org.au/research/1997/1997-08-26_thanks-participants-firearms-buyback.html
"... in the period immediately folowing the buy-back, there was a
significant
increase in the criminal misuse of firearms."
But piggy-shitcan can't provide evidence of this - he provided evidence of
what happened DURING the buyback
- there is a letter from Tim Fischer on the SSAA web site.
But piggy-shitcan couldn't find this letter on the SSAA web-site.
- the FBI web site doesn't show UCR figures.
Trivially easy to prove this claim is a lie.
- the results of a professionally conducted survey become "tainted"
because they are cited by somebody that piggy-shitcan disagrees with.
Despite many requests for elaboration on this puzzling and revolutionary
theory of polling statistics, piggy-shitcan was never able to explain the
nature of this "tainting" or even when it occurred.
John - Melb
> "John - Melb" <mcnamara_j...@hotmail.com> wrote in messagenews:0ae965ab-0708-4203...@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>
> "... in the period immediately folowing the buy-back, there was a
> significant
> increase in the criminal misuse of firearms."
>
> But piggy-shitcan can't provide evidence of this - he provided evidence of
> what happened DURING the buyback
>
> - there is a letter from Tim Fischer on the SSAA web site.
>
> But piggy-shitcan couldn't find this letter on the SSAA web-site.
>
> - the FBI web site doesn't show UCR figures.
>
> Trivially easy to prove this claim is a lie.
>
> - the results of a professionally conducted survey become "tainted"
> because they are cited by somebody that piggy-shitcan disagrees with.
>
> Despite many requests for elaboration on this puzzling and revolutionary
> theory of polling statistics, piggy-shitcan was never able to explain the
> nature of this "tainting" or even when it occurred.
But you forget sock-puppet, I play by Trevor's rules.
Scout
And to make things clear.
Criminal = a person guilty or convicted of a crime.
So much for innocent until proven guilty. According to Tosspot EVERYONE
is a criminal whether convicted or not.
> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nutter
>
> See #2.
>
Insane according to whom? You?
After all, you've called people nutters simply for failing to agree to
your politics or political agenda.
I will just note under the application of those as written and applied
by Trevor. Everyone is a criminal and anyone who disagrees with Trevor
is a nutter.
So why exactly would any sane person accept your setting the rules?
John - Melb
wrote:
> **Nor am I. Idiots don't like answering the hard questions.
So then, Trevor, is by his own admission, an idiot.
Tell us again about your friend who can STOP his heart.
Blinky Bill
===================================================
That's your usual childish excuse - "But mum, he did it first" - pathetic.
But if you claim you are "playing by his rules", then we can regard you the
same way you regard him.
"He shovels out noting but contempt and lies..." - an accurate assessment
of your rantings.
"..and desereves nothing but contempt and scorn in return." That's a pretty
good assessment of how people should view your whining. Grow up.
Blinky Bill
==========================================
Tell us again about how you don't classify people according to their sexual
preference ... but describe them as gay LMAO
John - Melb
> That's your usual childish excuse - "But mum, he did it first" - pathetic.
> But if you claim you are "playing by his rules", then we can regard you the
> same way you regard him.
You can regard me anyway you like, I seek neither your "brownie
points", your respect, nor your counsel.
And I will continue to treat you as Trevor Tosspot's foul mouthed sock-
puppet.
John - Melb
> Tell us again about how you don't classify people according to their sexual
> preference ... but describe them as gay LMAO
The friends I was refering to in my post describe themselves as "gay"
Gray Ghost
It is my impression that "gay" is considered the acceptable term when
referring to those who prefer thier own gender.
Blinky Bill is an empty sock, smelly, dirty, crusty with holes in the wrong
places. He is a near perfect example of the idiot contrarian on this
newsgroup. Stupid, vulgar, worthless.
--
Always remember:
Bull Connor was a Democrat!
r_c_...@hushmail.com
Okay, I'll assume "a person guilty or convicted of a crime". As
mentioned in an earlier message, ex-felons are generally barred from
firearm ownership, so there is no need for new laws in that case.
Your definition would include misdemeanor offenses, is that correct?
>
> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nutter
>
Okay, slang for "an insane person". As mentioned in an earlier
message, people who are adjudicated as potentially harmful to
themselves or others due to a psychological disease are already barred
from firearm ownership. Looks like there is no need for new laws here
either.
It is certainly possible to trample individual rights by amending the
Constitution.
The original - and current - purpose of the Constitution is to set up
the framework of the federal government, and to limit that government
to certain powers. Any powers not granted to the federal government
belong to the States. More importantly, rights belong to people, and
are not granted by government. There are several rights enumerated in
the Constitution, with an understanding (and an explicit statement)
that rights not enumerated still belong to the people.
Prohibition is an example of how not to amend the Constitution - it
restricted people's rights, and was rightfully repealed by amendment.
Other examples of potential (so far) amendments that would restrict
rights are the anti flag burning amendment and the anti gay marriage
amendment. These things are violations of the intent of the
Constitution.
If whatever you had in mind when you wrote "altering the US
Constitution (which has been done many times in the past) to reflect
common sense, logic and the progress of technology" - which you still
haven't explained - infringes unduly on individual rights, then that
would be another example of using the amendment process to trample
rights.
Now will you please answer my question?
>
> --
> Trevor Wilsonwww.rageaudio.com.au
Trevor Wilson
<r_c_...@hushmail.com> wrote in message
news:eab1e64a-2c17-4f2b...@c18g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
**Depends. Any violent offence should be enough to ensure that a person is
never allowed to own a firearm. However, the problem with US firearms laws
(as they exist in many jurisdictions), is that it is possible to sell a
second hand firearm to a criminal, without the seller first performing a
background check.
>
> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nutter
>
Okay, slang for "an insane person". As mentioned in an earlier
message, people who are adjudicated as potentially harmful to
themselves or others due to a psychological disease are already barred
from firearm ownership. Looks like there is no need for new laws here
either.
**See above.
**Indeed. It is also possible to alter the Constitution to reflect the
reality of modern society too. The US Constitution was written a few hundred
years ago. Things have changed. Fortunately, the US Constitution was
concieved as a document which could be changed to reflect changes in
society.
The original - and current - purpose of the Constitution is to set up
the framework of the federal government, and to limit that government
to certain powers. Any powers not granted to the federal government
belong to the States. More importantly, rights belong to people, and
are not granted by government. There are several rights enumerated in
the Constitution, with an understanding (and an explicit statement)
that rights not enumerated still belong to the people.
Prohibition is an example of how not to amend the Constitution - it
restricted people's rights, and was rightfully repealed by amendment.
Other examples of potential (so far) amendments that would restrict
rights are the anti flag burning amendment and the anti gay marriage
amendment. These things are violations of the intent of the
Constitution.
If whatever you had in mind when you wrote "altering the US
Constitution (which has been done many times in the past) to reflect
common sense, logic and the progress of technology" - which you still
haven't explained - infringes unduly on individual rights, then that
would be another example of using the amendment process to trample
rights.
Now will you please answer my question?
**I was asking the question about why a (unstated) change to to Constitution
represented a "trashing of the Constitution". I am still waiting for an
answer to that question. If you would care to answer for the other poster,
please feel free. Changes have been made to the US Constitution in the past
and they will most probably be made in the future.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Scout
Really? So when you are 18 you get into a fight at school. Trevor would
have us believe that person should never be able to own a gun. Maybe
when they were 20 they pushed someone, Trevor would have us deny them
the right to own arms.
Sorry Trevor, but if the offense is serious enough to result in lifetime
infringement of their rights, then it needs to be a felony. Otherwise,
blow it out your ass.
> However, the problem with US firearms laws
> (as they exist in many jurisdictions), is that it is possible to sell a
> second hand firearm to a criminal, without the seller first performing a
> background check.
Yes it is, and oddly enough there is absolutely no evidence to show that
in those jurisdictions that mandate such a check see any decrease in
the rate of violent crime, the rate of violent crimes committed with a
firearm, or the rate the criminals are caught with guns. So what purpose
does this serve?
Further if you really want to conduct a background check there is a far
simplier method than having to enter information into a computer
database. Simple make the ID issued indicate whether the person is
allowed to buy guns.
Then the seller can easily and readily conduct a background check at any
time or place, without delay or need to wait for governmental permission
to be issued.
Oh, but that's right, you don't like that idea because it wouldn't allow
the government to be able to make a database of all legal firearms
transactions.
>
>> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nutter
>>
>
> Okay, slang for "an insane person". As mentioned in an earlier
> message, people who are adjudicated as potentially harmful to
> themselves or others due to a psychological disease are already barred
> from firearm ownership. Looks like there is no need for new laws here
> either.
>
> **See above.
Nothing above applies.
Sure, but until i
Because we already know what change you want to make and it would
violate one of the most basic rights people have.
r_c_...@hushmail.com
Are you referring to sales between private parties? For example, if I
owned any firearms, I could sell one to a friend or relative without
the background check, right?
See above.
I just answered your question in detail above. If there is something
about the answer that is unclear, please let me know.
Now will you please answer my question?
> --
> Trevor Wilsonwww.rageaudio.com.au
Blinky Bill
On Jun 26, 10:16 pm, "Blinky Bill" <nos...@anytime.com> wrote:
> That's your usual childish excuse - "But mum, he did it first" - pathetic.
> And if you claim you are "playing by his rules", then we can regard you
> the
> same way you regard him.
You can regard me anyway you like,
===============================================
I don't need your permission to regard you as a dumb as dog-shit gun-loon,
piggy-shitcan.
I seek neither your "brownie
points", your respect, nor your counsel.
================================================
Then why do you try to explain or justify your behaviour - you are as
irrational as always. But you can relax - I can't imagine the circumstances
in which I would give you either respect or counsel and you lack the
intelligence to earn "brownie points" . You do nothing worthy of respect and
your are too stupid too heed wise counsel LMAO.
And I will continue to treat you as Trevor Tosspot's foul mouthed sock-
puppet.
================================================
Tell someone who cares. And I will continue to treat you to regular
spankings piggy. You must be used to them by now LMAO
Blinky Bill
====================================================
So? You are classifying them according to their sexual preference when you
use the term. It's your use of the term to classify them being discussed,
not theirs.
Blinky Bill
"Gray Ghost" <grey_ghost47...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9C366526EABAEWe...@216.196.97.142...
> John - Melb <mcnama...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:78363a71-66d0-4d25...@g15g2000pra.googlegroups.com:
>
>> On Jun 26, 10:25 pm, "Blinky Bill" <nos...@anytime.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Tell us again about how you don't classify people according to their
>>> sexual preference ... but describe them as gay LMAO
>>
>> The friends I was refering to in my post describe themselves as "gay"
>>
>
> It is my impression that "gay" is considered the acceptable term when
> referring to those who prefer thier own gender.
I can't see how that changes its meaning from classifying people according
to their sexual orientation. But keep wriggling.
>
> Blinky Bill is an empty sock, smelly, dirty, crusty with holes in the
> wrong
> places. He is a near perfect example of the idiot contrarian on this
> newsgroup. Stupid, vulgar, worthless.
I am dismayed that you think of me that way - I don't think I will sleep for
a fortnight <yawn>.
I notice you usually slink away from my posts and only make feeble attempts
to address them in this indirect fashion. I suppose you have no choice after
the numerous times I have high-lighted your stupidity LMAO
Trevor Wilson
<r_c_...@hushmail.com> wrote in message
news:8531e48b-0390-4790...@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
**Yep.
For example, if I
owned any firearms, I could sell one to a friend or relative without
the background check, right?
**Depending on the jurisdiction, yes.
See above.
**Certainly. NO response has been made to my question about "trashing the
Constitution". ALTERING the Constitution has been done many times and will
likely be done again.
Now will you please answer my question?
**Already done. See above.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
John - Melb
wrote:
> <r_c_br...@hushmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:8531e48b-0390-4790...@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 26, 1:03 pm, "Trevor Wilson" <tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > <r_c_br...@hushmail.com> wrote in message
> > **Depends. Any violent offence should be enough to ensure that a person is
> > never allowed to own a firearm. However, the problem with US firearms laws
> > (as they exist in many jurisdictions), is that it is possible to sell a
> > second hand firearm to a criminal, without the seller first performing a
> > background check.
>
> Are you referring to sales between private parties?
>
> **Yep.
>
> For example, if I
> owned any firearms, I could sell one to a friend or relative without
> the background check, right?
>
> **Depending on the jurisdiction, yes.
Fascinating, Trevor claims here that he is refering to sales between
private
individuals, yet on aus.electronics he claimed he was refering to
dealers
posing as private sellers to sell guns to criminals at gun shows.
--------------------------------------------------
On Jun 18, 6:17 pm, John - Melb <mcnamara_j...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 18, 12:54 pm, "Trevor Wilson"
>
> <tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote:
> > **Yes. Easily. Across the US, each year, there are hundreds of 'gun shows'.
> > At these 'gun shows' dealers, posing as private citizens sell thousands of
> > guns to criminals. They can do so, because there are virtually zero
> > restrictions on the sale of 'second hand' guns. Even if that gun has only
> > been 'second hand' for a couple of minutes and has never been fired. Here in
> > Australia (and pretty much the rest of the developed world) ALL gun sales
> > must be recorded and tracked. Even secondary sales. Such an action ensures
> > that fewer guns end up in the hands of criminals.
>
> So, Trevor, are you now claiming that laws governing the sale of
> firearms by licenced dealers in the US "don't apply" if the dealer
> takes his wares to a gun show?
>
> You are a fucking liar, the laws governing issues like background
> checks and 4473 forms apply to gun dealers in the US REGARDLESS of
> where they conduct the business.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course, that's standard operating procedure for Trevor Tosspot,
when he gets spanked for telling lies about guns and gun owners, he
runs off to a toally unrelated
forum and posts rants there, believeing no one will know enough about
the subject to challenge his assertions.
r_c_...@hushmail.com
Interesting. Do you know how large (or small) of a problem it is when
someone sells a firearm to a friend or relative? (I'm not referring
to sales to known criminals or "nutters", which is already against the
law).
>
>
> > >http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nutter
>
> > Okay, slang for "an insane person". As mentioned in an earlier
> > message, people who are adjudicated as potentially harmful to
> > themselves or others due to a psychological disease are already barred
> > from firearm ownership. Looks like there is no need for new laws here
> > either.
>
> > **See above.
>
> See above.
Ditto.
My detailed answer above directly addresses your question. If there
is something about the answer that is unclear, please let me know.
> ALTERING the Constitution has been done many times and will
> likely be done again.
>
> Now will you please answer my question?
>
> **Already done. See above.
>
Not at all done, unless you mean "That is not for me to say. I am not
a US citizen."
> --
> Trevor Wilsonwww.rageaudio.com.au
Trevor Wilson
<r_c_...@hushmail.com> wrote in message
news:c158628b-25c2-46ff...@y7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
**The precise size is unknown, as criminals tend not to be truthful when
telling the authorities where they obtain firearms. For instance: If
criminals told police that they obtained their guns from, oh, say, gun
shows, then that would cause a huge crack-down on gun shows, thsu causing
the criminals' source of guns to dry up. However, we know that some
criminals do buy their guns from friends and relatives. We know this from
the Columbine Massacre. So, although the problem may not be large (though it
could well be huge), it has been significant in recent times.
More crucially, however, employing the same restrictions on second hand gun
sales, as applied to new gun sales, hurts no one, except criminals.
(I'm not referring
to sales to known criminals or "nutters", which is already against the
law).
**It may be against the law, but, due to the poor shape of US gun control
laws in most jurisdictions, there is no mandatory background checks on
second hand sales. The seller has no way of knowing if the buyer has a
criminal record, unless a background check has been performed.
Ditto.
**Well, no, it isn't. Fundamentally, however, you did not ask the original
question about "trashing the Constitution".
If there
is something about the answer that is unclear, please let me know.
**My question remains as it pertains to "trashing the Constitution".
> ALTERING the Constitution has been done many times and will
> likely be done again.
>
> Now will you please answer my question?
>
> **Already done. See above.
>
Not at all done, unless you mean "That is not for me to say. I am not
a US citizen."
**Exactly.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
John - Melb
So, Trevor has some evidence that a crack down on gun shows would
cause the criminals source of guns to dry up? Gee, I'd like to see
that, but I wont hold my breathwaiting for Tosspot to provide the
evidence to support that assertion.
>
> More crucially, however, employing the same restrictions on second hand gun
> sales, as applied to new gun sales, hurts no one, except criminals.
And, of course provide the database for a registration system, which
would inevitibaly lead to a tightening of laws and the banning of
private possession of certain types of firearms, as has already been
the case in Britain, Australia and countless other jurisdictions.
Remember folks, gun control isn't about guns, it's about control.
>
> (I'm not referring
> to sales to known criminals or "nutters", which is already against the
> law).
>
> **It may be against the law, but, due to the poor shape of US gun control
> laws in most jurisdictions, there is no mandatory background checks on
> second hand sales. The seller has no way of knowing if the buyer has a
> criminal record, unless a background check has been performed.
>
>
>
>
>
> > > >http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nutter
>
> > > Okay,
>
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Scout
I disagree, several years ago I missed out on a really good deal because
the NICS was down and neither I nor the dealer were local to the area,
nor too each other and it would have been more expense and trouble than
it was worth to arrange a meeting at another time.
So please define this assertion of yours that "no one is hurt", because
it's BS. Nor have I seen ANY evidence to show that such background
checks in the 18 states that mandate them has done ANYTHING to control
criminal access to guns or reduced the number of criminals with guns.
As such, it's my belief that you're talking through your ass and
claiming all sorts of fantasy results which can't been shown to exist
anyplace it's been implemented.
So. before we require a lot of background checks, why don't you first
show us that they actually have a demonstrated, verifiable benefit.
Oh, and tell me again why we shouldn't simply issue special ID to
prohibited individuals so that a background check consists simply of
looking at their government issued photo ID???
John - Melb
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
You believe that Trevor is talking through his arse, and you sound
surprised?
Gray Ghost
news:3A12m.4871$6A3....@newsfe20.iad:
>
>
> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> <r_c_...@hushmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:c158628b-25c2-46ff...@y7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>> On Jun 26, 4:43 pm, "Trevor Wilson" <tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au>
>> wrote:
>>> <r_c_br...@hushmail.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:8531e48b-0390-4790...@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com..
>>> . On Jun 26, 1:03 pm, "Trevor Wilson"
>>> <tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>> <r_c_br...@hushmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:eab1e64a-2c17-4f2b...@c18g2000prh.googlegroups.com.
>>>> .. On Jun 25, 11:31 pm, "Trevor Wilson"
>>>> <tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>>> <r_c_br...@hushmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:8b79bf11-eac1-4190...@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com
>>>>> ... On Jun 24, 4:13 pm, "Trevor Wilson"
>>>>> <tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>>>> <r_c_br...@hushmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:7765e123-cdf0-465b...@d25g2000prn.googlegroups.co
>>>>>> m... On Jun 23, 5:45 pm, "Trevor Wilson"
>>>>>> <tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>>>>> <r_c_br...@hushmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:a3d498e1-5309-4c6f...@d38g2000prn.googlegroups.c
>>>>>>> om... On Jun 22, 9:32 pm, "Trevor Wilson"
>>>>>>> <tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>>>>>> "Gray Ghost" <grey_ghost471-newsgro...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>> message news:Xns9C333361FA65We...@216.196.97.142...
>>>>>>>>> "Trevor Wilson" <tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in
>>>>>>>>> news:7aanffF...@mid.individual.net:
>>>>>>>>>> "Gray Ghost" <grey_ghost471-newsgro...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>> news:Xns9C32B2A694790We...@216.196.97.142...
>>>>>>>>>>> "fritz" <fr...@address.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>> news:h1ora1$djm$00$1...@news.t-online.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>> John - Melb <mcnamara_j...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:eaf35a3b-8ec1-45d4...@y10g2000prc.googlegro
>>>>>>>>>>>> ups.com.. .
Perhaps we should ask Trevor how it is that givne the large number of stops
by the NICS that only a tiny percentage are pursued for having committed a
federal felony and an even tinier percentage are actually found guilty or
pled out.
IOW
According to the US DOJ
# In 2007 over 8.6 million applications for firearm transfers or permits were
subject to background checks under the Brady Act and similar state laws.
# From the inception of the Brady Act in March 1994 through December 2007,
more than 87 million applications for firearm transfers were subject to
background checks. About 1,631,000 applications were rejected.
# Among state checking agencies in 2007, 39% of all rejections for firearm
transfers were due to a felony conviction.
# Among all agencies conducting background checks, 64% of applications were
denied due to reasons other than a felony conviction in 2007.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/crs.htm#background
Furthermore
"We also found that less than 1 percent of the individuals who committed
Brady Act violations were prosecuted."
http://www.usdoj.gov/oig/reports/ATF/e0406/concl.htm
Basically a tiny percentage of denials are pursued with final convictions
measured in 10s.
http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/bjs/grants/222474.pdf
Anything so blaringly incompetent hurts gun owners on all levels, cost of
system, people denied who appear to not be guilty of anything - the basic
Brady Act violation is worth 10 years at Club Fed and you you a signed
document to prove it - lack of pursuit of actual criminals.
Trevor of course will huff and puff and blow himself down.
Trevor Wilson
"Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:3A12m.4871$6A3....@newsfe20.iad...
**Please describe your injury/s in full. Take all the sapce you need. Do so
in this space:
-----
-----
Now, I will describe the injuries suffered by some people who WERE affected
by lax gun control laws in the US:
1. Rachel Scott, age 17, killed by shots to the head, torso, and leg on a
grassy area next to the West Entrance of the school.
2. Richard Castaldo, age 17, shot in the arm, chest, back and abdomen on the
same grassy area.
3. Daniel Rohrbough, age 15, killed by a shot to the chest on the West
Staircase.
4. Sean Graves, age 15, shot in the back, foot and abdomen on the West
Staircase.
5. Lance Kirklin, age 16, shot with wounds to the leg, neck and jaw on the
West Staircase.
6. Michael Johnson, age 15, escaped from the grassy knoll with wounds to his
face, arm and leg.
7. Mark Taylor, age 16, shot in the chest, arms and leg on the grassy knoll.
8. Anne-Marie Hochhalter, age 17, shot in the chest, arm, abdomen, back, and
left leg near the cafeteria's entrance.
9. Brian Anderson, age 16, injured near the West Entrance by flying glass.
10. Patti Nielson, age 35, hit in the shoulder by shrapnel near the West
Entrance.
11. Stephanie Munson, age 16, shot in the ankle inside the North Hallway.
12. Dave Sanders, age 47, died of blood loss after being shot in the neck
and back inside the South Hallway.
13. Evan Todd, age 15, sustained minor injuries from the splintering of a
desk he was hiding under.
14. Kyle Velasquez, age 16, killed by gunshot wounds to the head and back.
15. Patrick Ireland, age 17, shot in the arm, leg, head, and foot.
16. Daniel Steepleton, age, 17, shot in the thigh.
17. Makai Hall, 18, shot in the knee.
18. Steven Curnow, age 14, killed by a shot to the neck.
19. Kacey Ruegsegger, age 17, shot in the hand, arm and shoulder.
20. Cassie Bernall, age 17, killed by a shot to the head.
21. Isaiah Shoels, age 18, killed by a shot to the chest.
22. Matthew Kechter, age 16, killed by a shot to the chest.
23. Lisa Kreutz, age 18, shot in the shoulder, hand and arms and thigh.
24. Valeen Schnurr, age 18, injured with wounds to the chest, arms and
abdomen.
25. Mark Kintgen, age 17, shot in the head and shoulder.
26. Lauren Townsend, age 18, killed by multiple gunshot wounds to the head,
chest and lower body.
27. Nicole Nowlen, age 16, shot in the abdomen.
28. John Tomlin, age 16, killed by multiple shots to the head and neck.
29. Kelly Fleming, age 16, killed by a shot to the back.
30. Jeanna Park, age 18, shot in the knee, shoulder and foot.
31. Daniel Mauser, age 15, killed by a shot to the face.
32. Jennifer Doyle, age 17, shot in the hand, leg and shoulder.
33. Austin Eubanks, age 17, shot in the head and knee.
34. Corey DePooter, age 17, killed by shots to the chest and neck.
These deaths and injuries were the result of weak gun control laws, as they
pertain to the sale of guns in private situations. Suddenly, the loss of a
"good deal" pales into insignificance.
>
> So please define this assertion of yours that "no one is hurt", because
> it's BS. Nor have I seen ANY evidence to show that such background checks
> in the 18 states that mandate them has done ANYTHING to control criminal
> access to guns or reduced the number of criminals with guns.
**Please describe the nature of your injuries. How do tjhose injuries relate
to the 34 listed above. Are those injuries more or less severe?
>
> As such, it's my belief that you're talking through your ass and claiming
> all sorts of fantasy results which can't been shown to exist anyplace it's
> been implemented.
**I just 34 inluries which can be DIRECTLY attributed to lax gun control
laws in the US.
>
> So. before we require a lot of background checks, why don't you first show
> us that they actually have a demonstrated, verifiable benefit.
**I've just shown what happens when you have poor gun control laws. Here in
Australia, when the gun control laws were changed, there was a dramatic and
sustained fall in mass murders via the use of firearms. Coincidence?
Perhaps. Still, it's been nearly 13 years since those laws were enacted and
there have been no mass murders via firearms.
>
> Oh, and tell me again why we shouldn't simply issue special ID to
> prohibited individuals so that a background check consists simply of
> looking at their government issued photo ID???
**People change.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Trevor Wilson
and questions. Or will you, like many gun owners, scurry away and hide from
me?
I suspect the latter. You're a big, brave man when you have a gun, but you
are a coward when you have to answer the hard quesations. SOP.
"Gray Ghost" <grey_ghost47...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9C333361FA65We...@216.196.97.142...
> "Trevor Wilson" <tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in
> news:7aanffF...@mid.individual.net:
>
>>
>> "Gray Ghost" <grey_ghost47...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9C32B2A694790We...@216.196.97.142...
>>> "fritz" <fr...@address.com> wrote in
>>> news:h1ora1$djm$00$1...@news.t-online.com:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> John - Melb <mcnama...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:eaf35a3b-8ec1-45d4...@y10g2000prc.googlegroups.com..
* Do you feel that criminals, drunks, drug addicts and nutters should have
unfettered access to firearms?
* Why do you feel that altering the US Constitution (which has been done
many times in the past) to reflect common sense, logic and the progress of
technology represents a "trashing of the Constitution"?
Your "facts" and assumptions
> are grossly flawed, your desire for government to dictate your life is
> well
> known and your inability to be truthful or back up your assertion is well
> documented.
**Projection, projection, projection. Try to cite some facts once in awhile,
rather than projecting your opinions.
> I would sooner argue with Weasel
**Just answer the questions, else risk being targetting as a fool. You're
(apparently) making a case for lax, incoherent, poorly policed gun control
laws. You need to answer the above questions, if you are to make a case for
such an experiment.
>
> You're an idiot. Get used to it.
**This, coming from one who cannot answer simple questions, is rich.
>
>>
>> I look forward to seeing the answers to these questions.
**Still waiting.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
John - Melb
wrote:
> I will provide you with, yet another, opportunity to respond to my comments
> and questions. Or will you, like many gun owners, scurry away and hide from
> me?
<SNIP> Inane ranting lovingly removed
ROFLMAO
Excuse me Trevor, how many times have you, run away and failed to
answer questions put to you?
The question about pinfires above is but the most recent example.
Gray Ghost
Trevor has huffed and puffed and blown himself down. Since he won't define
"safe, sane" gun laws, further exchanges seem sorta pointless.
Trevor Wilson
I will provide you with, yet another, opportunity to respond to my comments
and questions. Or will you, like many gun owners, scurry away and hide from
me?
I suspect the latter. You're a big, brave man when you have a gun, but you
Scout
Already stated. Is there something you missed?
> -----
>
> Now, I will describe the injuries suffered by some people who WERE affected
> by lax gun control laws in the US:
Irrelevent. You stated most clearly that NO ONE had been harmed. I have.
You lied.
> These deaths and injuries were the result of weak gun control laws,
Proof please to support your claim.
> as they
> pertain to the sale of guns in private situations.
Really? I seem to recall that involved a CRIMINAL OFFENSE and an ILLEGAL
TRANSFER.
....or do you suppose criminals engaged in illegal transfers aren't
going to do so because they haven't preformed a background check?
BS Trevor. You are certainly talking out of your ass.
>< Suddenly, the loss of a
> "good deal" pales into insignificance.
I accept your admission I was harmed, and your claim that no one has
been or would be is a falsehood.
>> So please define this assertion of yours that "no one is hurt", because
>> it's BS. Nor have I seen ANY evidence to show that such background checks
>> in the 18 states that mandate them has done ANYTHING to control criminal
>> access to guns or reduced the number of criminals with guns.
>
> **Please describe the nature of your injuries. How do tjhose injuries relate
> to the 34 listed above. Are those injuries more or less severe?
I accept your admission I was injuried. The severity isn't the issue.
>> As such, it's my belief that you're talking through your ass and claiming
>> all sorts of fantasy results which can't been shown to exist anyplace it's
>> been implemented.
>
> **I just 34 inluries which can be DIRECTLY attributed to lax gun control
> laws in the US.
Really? I seem to recall they committed something like 34 felonies
before they fired the first shot. I'm sure that one more law would have
stopped them cold, particularly the part involving the illegal private
transfer of guns.
Yea, no criminal would illegally transfer a gun in violation of the law.
Are you stoned, Trevor, or simply stupid?
Scout
....and once the 2nd Amendment is repealed then you will have an
argument. Until then the gun control laws you suggest are by your OWN
stated standards unsuitable for acceptance since they fail to comply
with the Constitutional requirements.
Trevor Wilson
**I'm still waiting for a complete list of your injuries suffered due to
your perceived problems with US gun control laws. Your lack of response will
be accepted as an admission that you have not suffered any injury. IOW: You
have not suffered at all.
>
>
>> -----
>>
>> Now, I will describe the injuries suffered by some people who WERE
>> affected by lax gun control laws in the US:
>
> Irrelevent.
**Well, yes, it is relevant. Poor gun control laws can be directly
attributed to the deaths and injuries listed.
You stated most clearly that NO ONE had been harmed. I have.
**Then list your injuries. An inability to list even one injury will be an
admission that you have lied about your injuries.
> You lied.
**Then list you injuries.
>
>
>> These deaths and injuries were the result of weak gun control laws,
>
> Proof please to support your claim.
**The deaths and injuries were the result of two shooters at Columbine High
School. Those shooters obtained the guns they used to kill people, by
purchasing from a friend.
>
>
>> as they pertain to the sale of guns in private situations.
>
> Really?
**Yes, really.
I seem to recall that involved a CRIMINAL OFFENSE and an ILLEGAL
> TRANSFER.
**Points:
1) Such a transfer could not have taken place, if US gun control laws
worked.
2) No person was punished for any alleged offence.
>
> ....or do you suppose criminals engaged in illegal transfers aren't going
> to do so because they haven't preformed a background check?
**People who purchase gun legally (like the ones purchased for the Columbine
shooters) cannot transfer ownership to another person without first dealing
through proper channels in places where gun control laws are sane and strong
(like Australia). In the US, where gun control laws are weak and
ineffective, such transfers are common. As was evidenced by the Columbine
shootings.
>
> BS Trevor. You are certainly talking out of your ass.
**Then YOU explain how the Columbine shooters could have obtained the guns
in Australia. Please outline the PRECISE steps, places, people and costs
involved.
>
>
>>< Suddenly, the loss of a "good deal" pales into insignificance.
>
> I accept your admission I was harmed, and your claim that no one has been
> or would be is a falsehood.
**You failed to list any injury. You were not harmed in any way, shape or
form. You inbaility to understand plain English is duly noted.
I will repeat:
You were not harmed in any way. If you have further problems in
understanding these simple words, get someone to explain them to you.
>
>
>>> So please define this assertion of yours that "no one is hurt", because
>>> it's BS. Nor have I seen ANY evidence to show that such background
>>> checks in the 18 states that mandate them has done ANYTHING to control
>>> criminal access to guns or reduced the number of criminals with guns.
>>
>> **Please describe the nature of your injuries. How do tjhose injuries
>> relate to the 34 listed above. Are those injuries more or less severe?
>
> I accept your admission I was injuried. The severity isn't the issue.
**List your injuries. Your inability to list your injuries is an admission
that you were not harmed.
>
>>> As such, it's my belief that you're talking through your ass and
>>> claiming all sorts of fantasy results which can't been shown to exist
>>> anyplace it's been implemented.
>>
>> **I just 34 inluries which can be DIRECTLY attributed to lax gun control
>> laws in the US.
>
> Really?
**You snipped them. I'll re-list them, if you wish.
I seem to recall they committed something like 34 felonies
> before they fired the first shot. I'm sure that one more law would have
> stopped them cold, particularly the part involving the illegal private
> transfer of guns.
**Then YOU explain how the Columbine shooters could have obtained the guns
in Australia. Please outline the PRECISE steps, places, people and costs
involved.
>
> Yea, no criminal would illegally transfer a gun in violation of the law.
>
> Are you stoned, Trevor, or simply stupid?
**Just waiting for you to list your injuries. Here is a list of injuries
which you snipped, due to your utterly callous nature:
Balance these injuries against your alleged "injury" which you allegedly
suffered.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Scout
Financial. Mental Anguish. Physical Stress.
There. Happy.
You said, no one is injuried by such laws. I have shown they are.
>>
>>> -----
>>>
>>> Now, I will describe the injuries suffered by some people who WERE
>>> affected by lax gun control laws in the US:
>> Irrelevent.
>
> **Well, yes, it is relevant. Poor gun control laws can be directly
> attributed to the deaths and injuries listed.
Yep, but NOT relevant to your claim that no one is injured by such laws.
> You stated most clearly that NO ONE had been harmed. I have.
>
> **Then list your injuries. An inability to list even one injury will be an
> admission that you have lied about your injuries.
Financial. Mental Anguish. Physical Stress.
>> You lied.
>
> **Then list you injuries.
I already have, but since you need them spoon fed to you I have listed
them in small bite sized pieces just for you.
>>> These deaths and injuries were the result of weak gun control laws,
>> Proof please to support your claim.
>
> **The deaths and injuries were the result of two shooters at Columbine High
> School. Those shooters obtained the guns they used to kill people, by
> purchasing from a friend.
Which under the law was a strawsale and TOTALLY ILLEGAL.
I'm sure that a friend knowing that the transaction was illegal would
have suddenly refused simply because they were also suppose to run a
background check.
How many laws have to be violated?
IT WAS ALREADY ILLEGAL AND THEY ALL KNEW IT.
Explain how this law would suddenly have made them decide to obey the
law when they were already engaged in ignoring the law.
>
>>
>>> as they pertain to the sale of guns in private situations.
>> Really?
>
> **Yes, really.
>
> I seem to recall that involved a CRIMINAL OFFENSE and an ILLEGAL
>> TRANSFER.
>
> **Points:
> 1) Such a transfer could not have taken place, if US gun control laws
> worked.
And you have shown that background checks work?
I think not.
I simply accept your admission that what they did was illegal and one
more law wouldn't have changed ANYTHING.
> 2) No person was punished for any alleged offence.
Yep, which sort of makes gun control laws pretty useless since they are
regularly not prosecuted. Oh, but adding one more will suddenly change
EVERYTHING. Right Trevor?
>> ....or do you suppose criminals engaged in illegal transfers aren't going
>> to do so because they haven't preformed a background check?
>
> **People who purchase gun legally (like the ones purchased for the Columbine
> shooters) cannot transfer ownership to another person without first dealing
> through proper channels in places where gun control laws are sane and strong
> (like Australia).
Really? So the guy making machine guns in his basement went through the
proper channels when he sold his machine guns to criminals?
> In the US, where gun control laws are weak and
> ineffective, such transfers are common. As was evidenced by the Columbine
> shootings.
Like criminals don't illegally transfer firearms in Australia. You
really are engaged in dishonesty here.
>> BS Trevor. You are certainly talking out of your ass.
>
> **Then YOU explain how the Columbine shooters could have obtained the guns
> in Australia.
Simple. The same way they did here. ILLEGALLY.
The law doesn't apply when it is IGNORED. The law doesn't work when the
people BREAK the law. The law doesn't stop CRIMINALS.
After all, you would seem to have us believe that because Australia has
gun control laws there is absolutely NO gun crime. After all, criminals
would NEVER break the law in Australia. Right?
> Please outline the PRECISE steps, places, people and costs
> involved.
I'll take Trevor cite tactic #3.
>>> < Suddenly, the loss of a "good deal" pales into insignificance.
>> I accept your admission I was harmed, and your claim that no one has been
>> or would be is a falsehood.
>
> **You failed to list any injury. You were not harmed in any way, shape or
> form. You inbaility to understand plain English is duly noted.
>
> I will repeat:
>
> You were not harmed in any way.
At the very least it cost me money since I had to pay a much higher
price later.
Gee, that's harm. Specifically financial harm. You claimed such doesn't
occur. It did. You lied.
Simple THEY BREAK THE FUCKING LAW.
Doesn't matter if they are in the USA or Australia.
They do whatever it is they want by BREAKING THE LAW.
Oh, that's right, Australia doesn't have criminals because in Australia
everyone always obeys the law.
If they don't then, you know how they could do that in Australia.
And blow your specifics out your ass Trevor. You ask for standards of
evidence you refuse to apply to your own cites. So it doesn't hold water
with me.
jf...@ix.netcom.com
How about these that saved themselves from being victims by using a
gun to defend themselves:
"Trevor Wilson" <tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:4637b908$0$23226$8826...@free.teranews.com...
Here are the FBI figures for the last few years:
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_14.html
2001 - 183
2002 - 189
2003 - 203
2004 - 166
2005 - 143
WOUNDED
Los Angeles Times, Los Angeles, CA, 12/23/01
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 3/1/2002
A GUN SHOP EMPLOYEE IN ALHAMBRA, CALIFORNIA, shot and killed
one of four men when they attempted to rob the store. The employee was
working in the office of the Euro Arms Gun Store one Friday morning
when he heard a commotion, said Sheriff's Deputy Roberta Granek. When
he exited the office, one of the robbers confronted him, and the
employee shot him with a semi-automatic rifle. The wounded man's
cohorts fled the store, but police later apprehended two of them.
The Clarkksdale Press Register, Clarksdale, Miss., 10/29/01
State: MS
American Rifleman Issue: 1/1/2002
Bobby Wolfe was locking the front door of his Moon Lake,
Miss., store one night when a man came around the icebox near the
door, pointed a gun and demanded money. "He had a gun in his hand, and
the other hand was over his face," Wolfe recalled. The storekeeper
dropped and pulled a, 38-cal. revolver from his pocket. "We think the
robbers shot first and Mr. Wolfe returned fire; 'stated Cuohoma County
Sheriff Andrew Thompson of the exchange that followed. When Wolfe took
off running for his nearby home, he encountered a second gunman who
began firing at him. "He shot two or three times, and I shot one more
time; 'said Wolfe. Within five minutes of the robbery, one gunman was
dead, Wolfe was wounded. and police picked up three suspects-one of
whom was mortally wounded-making a getaway Wolfe later said of the
men, whom he recognized, "... I'm sure they intended to kill me
because they know I'd recognize them."
Rockford Register Star, Rockford, Ill., 9/19/2001
State: IL
American Rifleman Issue: 12/1/2001
On a Tuesday afternoon, Rockford, Ill., barber William Cross
was cutting hair as he has for 34 years, when two masked men entered
his shop. One man pointed a gun at Cross and said, "Give it up!" When
Cross asked what was happening, the armed man fired a shot, just
missing the barber's head. Cross responded by reaching into a drawer
for his own gun. His first shot knocked the robber to the floor, but
he was still holding onto his gun. Cross then tried to shoot the gun
out of the suspect's hand and thinks he was successful, as the man
finally dropped his gun. "That's not a good feeling, looking down a
gun barrel," Cross said later. Winnebago County sheriff's deputies
took the injured gunman into custody and they arrested a second man
who was running away from the scene. The barber was shocked when
police told him the name of the wounded would-be robber. Cross had
been cutting his hair for years.
The Tennessean, Nashville, Tenn., 9/11/2001
State: TN
American Rifleman Issue: 12/1/2001
Nashville, Tenn., cab driver had his worst fear come true when
a fare he picked up early one morning pushed an object into his back
and demanded money. The cabbie had become nervous when the man began
making rapid requests. The driver reached for his gun for assurance.
When his passenger attempted to rob him, the cabbie gave him some
money, then fired at him. The wounded robber left the cab, leaving the
blood-stained money behind. The suspect was arrested by police several
blocks away.
The Post and Courier, Charleston, SC, 7/27/01
State: SC
American Rifleman Issue: 10/1/2001
When Ryan Smith stopped his Nissan Xterra to ask a group of
people at a corner for directions, several men jumped into his
vehicle, and one man punched him in the face, according to harleston,
S.C., police. Smith then grabbed a .25-cal. pistol from his glove
compartment and shot his attacker who was later charged with attempted
carjacking. The wounded attacker had been charged only days earlier in
another incident in which he allegedly robbed a lost motorist at
knifepoint.
The Post and Courier, Charleston, SC, 7/27/01
State: SC
American Rifleman Issue: 10/1/2001
When Ryan Smith stopped his Nissan Xterra to ask a group of
people at a corner for directions, several men jumped into his
vehicle, and one man punched him in the face, according to harleston,
S.C., police. Smith then grabbed a .25-cal. pistol from his glove
compartment and shot his attacker who was later charged with attempted
carjacking. The wounded attacker had been charged only days earlier in
another incident in which he allegedly robbed a lost motorist at
knifepoint.
Rocky Mountain News, Denver, CO, 5/23/01
State: CO
American Rifleman Issue: 8/1/2001
Two armed men entered a southwest Denver home one night and
allegedly robbed the family residing there; a man, woman and their two
sons. According to Denver Police Lt. Jon Priest, the men pointed their
handguns at the father and demanded money. The nefarious duo then took
property from the home and, as they were leaving, family members
chased them out of the house. One of the victims grabbed a firearm and
a gun battle ensued leaving one of the suspects wounded.
The San Francisco Chronicle, San Francisco, CA, 5/28/01
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 8/1/2001
John Varney, of Novato, Calif., was shot and critically
wounded when he stormed into the Petaluma home where his ex-girlfriend
was staying. Eric Daviesson and his wife were sheltering Varney's
ex-girlfriend who had complained about domestic violence, said
Petaluma police Lt. Dave Sears. When Varney barged in via an unlocked
front door, he was immediately confronted by Daviesson. Varney
allegedly brandished a knife and moved toward Daviesson, who grabbed a
shotgun and shot him.
Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, Little Rock, AR, 3/3/01
State: AR
American Rifleman Issue: 6/1/2001
Joe Robertson's work day began as any other when he left home
to open his El Dorado, Ark., grocery store, but quickly turned surreal
when two armed robbers accosted him in the parking lot. Little did the
bandits know that Robertson carried a .357 Mag. revolver. In the gun
battle that ensued, Robertson was wounded, but the inept robbers fared
worse. One apparently hit the other with a fatal shotgun blast.
Robertson's wife later said of the incident, "God was with him."
Anchorage Daily News, Anchorage, AK, 2/2/01
State: AK
American Rifleman Issue: 4/1/2001
A Spenard, Alaska, motel clerk was alone at work early one
morning when a man burst in waving a gun and demanding money. "He
threw a gym bag down on the counter and said he wanted the whole
thing," reported the worker, who was armed with a .38-cal. handgun for
which he has a carry permit. The bandit's tenor intensified, however,
when he realized there was little cash to steal. "He said he was going
to kill me," said the clerk who, facing death, pulled the gun from his
vest and fired twice. He was forced to shoot again seconds later when
the man attempted to get up. The wounded, would-be robber finally
surrendered and was transported to a hospital under the watchful eye
of police. The robbery attempt marked the third such incident at the
motel in only a month.
"Trevor Wilson" <tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:4637b908$0$23226$8826...@free.teranews.com...
Here are the FBI figures for the last few years:
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_14.html
2001 - 183
2002 - 189
2003 - 203
2004 - 166
2005 - 143
WOUNDED
Dothan Eagle, Dothan, AL, 10/10/02
State: AL
American Rifleman Issue: 1/1/2003
A newspaper carrier saved the day, and a man's life, when he
shot a man holding a gun to the head of a Birmingham, Ala.,
convenience store clerk during a robbery. Sam Harper was outside a
Chevron convenience store filling newspaper racks when he saw a man
put on a wig and burst into the store, screaming at clerk Tom Burnett
and pointing a shotgun at Burnett's head. Harper acted immediately by
drawing his own gun, entering the store and firing three times at the
gunman. The wounded robber dropped his shotgun but ran toward Harper,
who shot him twice more. "I just reacted," Harper said. "It was total
chaos, and it was pretty terrifying." Burnett credits Harper with
saving his life. "I was looking down the barrel of a shotgun, and a
shotgun don't miss," he said.
Las Vegas Sun, Las Vegas, NV, 10/08/02
State: NV
American Rifleman Issue: 1/1/2003
A man was shot in the buttocks by an armed Las Vegas homeowner
when several men broke into a home in an attempted burglary. The shot
sent the would-be burglars running; one suspect jumped from a
second-story window. Police arrested four men, including the wounded
man, and charged them with burglary with use of a deadly weapon and
home invasion. North Las Vegas Police Lt. Victor Dunn said the
suspects were going through the neighborhood knocking on doors,
looking for an empty house.
Daily Oklahoman, Oklahoma City, OK, 07/17/02
State: OK
American Rifleman Issue: 10/1/2002
The owner of a Marietta, Okla., jewelry store shot and killed
one of two armed men who attempted to rob his store. Two men had
walked into Norton's Jewelry Store as Ronnie Norton and his wife,
Barbara, were preparing to close for the evening. Norton saw the
suspicious men approaching and slipped his .32-cal. handgun into his
belt. They asked to see a $2,500 wedding set, and Norton went to the
safe to retrieve the rings with one man following him. When Barbara
Norton saw that man reach into his pocket, she ran for the door but
was stopped by the other man who pulled a gun on her. Norton turned to
see what was going on, and the man with him pulled a handgun. When the
gunman ordered the storeowner to the floor, Norton feared he would be
shot in the back of the head. He made his move, and a struggle ensued
during which his assailant was fatally wounded. His attacker's
accomplice fired several shots at Norton, who returned fire with his
own gun. The second gunman and two accomplices waiting outside fled
the scene. Though frightened, the Nortons were uninjured. The
storeowner said he and his wife plan to reopen the store, but will
never feel completely safe again. "We are always going to be alert and
ready for something to happen," he said.
Savannah Morning News, Savannah, GA, 06/27/02
State: GA
American Rifleman Issue: 9/1/2002
Bartender Anne Werner was alone in the Anchorage Lounge,
waiting for the night crew from the paper mill to come in after work.
Suddenly there was a commotion at the package store adjoining the bar.
Werner looked through the window between the two businesses in time to
witness two masked men enter the store. One would-be robber lunged
toward clerk Richard Huggins, who pulled a gun and shot the man. The
second suspect pulled his wounded accomplice out of the store and then
fled. Werner said, "it sounded like a fight at the OK Corral, and
Richard [Huggins] was Wyatt Earp." When Savannah police arrived they
found suspect Jamison Dixon seriously wounded outside the shop. Dixon
died at the scene and police were still looking for the second
suspect.
The Trentonian, Trenton, NJ, 06/15/02
State: NJ
American Rifleman Issue: 9/1/2002
Two masked men entered a Trenton, N.J., area liquor store and
one, armed with a handgun, pushed the gun through a small window in
the cashier's glass enclosure, announced a robbery and demanded cash
from store owner Praveen Malhotra. The owner grabbed his own .357 Mag.
pistol and fired two shots, hitting the suspect in the chest and
sending the second robber fleeing. The wounded suspect, identified by
police as Steven Gudger, was taken to the hospital for treatment.
Gudger, an escapee from Riverfront Prison, faced charges of armed
robbery, aggravated assault and illegal possession of a weapon.
The Tennesean, Nashville, TN, 5/20/02
State: TN
American Rifleman Issue: 8/1/2002
A Forest Hills, Tenn., man shot and wounded two masked
burglars after they broke into his home. Roy Luckett was awakened
about 2 a.m. when his burglar alarm activated. He picked up his wife's
.38-cal. revolver loaded with 'snake shot' and searched the house.
Upon hearing a noise in the furnace room he opened the door and
discovered two shadowy figures skulking in the darkness. According to
police, the suspects were wearing masks and armed with rifles. Luckett
fired at the men, emptying the gun. He then ran upstairs to get his
.45-cal. pistol. Meanwhile, the pair of bandits tried to force open
Luckett's garage door so they could escape. They fired 14 shots from
at least one rifle into Patsy Lucketts sport-utility vehicle before
making their escape. The pair was later arrested when they sought
medical aid. Luckett says he has no idea why the bandits didnt leave
when his alarm sounded. "They were lucky I didn't take the .45," he
said. "No telling what would have happened. God just guided me through
that night."
The Wichita Eagle, Wichita, KS, 05/23/02
State: KS
American Rifleman Issue: 8/1/2002
A Wichita, Kan., smoke shop owner shot and wounded an armed
robber in his store after the man tried to shoot him. Lorenzo Harding,
owner of H&H Cigarette Shop, told police he was with a customer when
an armed man burst into his shop. The man reportedly pulled a mask
down to cover his face, said Sgt. Jeff Davis. "Initial reports are
that he was trying to fire the gun, but the gun jammed," Davis said.
The owner then pulled a handgun from under his counter and fired one
shot at the man.
The Star Press, Muncie, IN, 4/10/02
State: IN
American Rifleman Issue: 6/1/2002
A convicted bandit's latest crime spree was brought to a halt
by an armed store clerk in a Muncie, Ind., convenience store. A clerk
at Zipp's Deli told investigators a man [later identified as Willie
Brown] came into the store, told the clerk he had a gun in his jacket
and demanded money from the cash register. Brown allegedly got away
with some cash, but not before the clerk fired his own gun at the
robber, hitting him at least once. Police found the wounded man a few
minutes later in a nearby home. Money allegedly taken from the deli
was recovered, as well, according to authorities. Brown has two
previous convictions for robbery and burglary and was released from
prison last May, according to state Department of Correction records.
Richmond Times-Dispatch, Richmond, VA, 1/08/02
State: VA
American Rifleman Issue: 4/1/2002
Two men armed with handguns entered a Richmond, Virginia,
mini-mart and demanded money from the owner, who was alone in the
store. When the robbers began to pistol-whip the owner, he grabbed his
own pistol and shot one of his attackers. The wounded robber, fleeing
with cash and lottery tickets, collapsed on the sidewalk, and his
cohort escaped in a car. Police spokeswoman Jennifer Reilly said the
men matched descriptions of two who had held up other stores in South
Richmond the previous day.
"Trevor Wilson" <tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:4637b908$0$23226$8826...@free.teranews.com...
Here are the FBI figures for the last few years:
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_14.html
2001 - 183
2002 - 189
2003 - 203
2004 - 166
2005 - 143
RAN AWAY
Rockford Register Star, Rockford, IL, 11/19/03
State: IL
American Rifleman Issue: 3/1/2004
Mario Cassola and his sister Lia Mercuri, co-owners of Vinny's
Pizza in Rockford, Ill., are no strangers to crime. One of their
deliverymen has been beaten and robbed, and their restaurant had been
burglarized. When two armed men burst into the pizzeria one Monday
night, the brother-sister team fought back and won. After the men
entered the establishment, one man began beating Cassola about the
head with a hammer while the second man aimed a rifle at him. Cassola
shook off the blows and grabbed his assailant, then used him as a
human shield against the man with the rifle. While her brother held
the men's attention, Mercuri pulled out a gun and began firing. The
two bandits fled empty-handed. Police later recovered the hammer and
rifle and arrested Michael Buck and Vaughn Gulley in connection with
the crime.
Daily Local News, Westchester, Pennsylvania, 11/07/03
State: PA
American Rifleman Issue: 2/1/2004
Two armed men burst into a Coatesville, Pennsylvania, home and
demanded money from the two occupants in the living room. One of the
armed invaders went up to the master bedroom and threatened to shoot
or beat the couple in bed if they didn't hand over some money. The man
in bed, identified as Omar Reid, grabbed a pistol from the nightstand
drawer and shot the robber just as he shot at Reid. With one intruder
down, Reid then raced down the stairs where he encountered the second
man and they exchanged fire. The second home invader fled the scene.
Reid was not injured during the gunfire. The wounded invader was taken
to the hospital.
Antelope Valley Press, Palmdale, CA, 09/21/03
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 1/1/2004
Two armed men entered Shamrock Liquor in Quartz Hill, Calif.,
wearing black masks over their faces. One of the masked bandits
pointed a gun at the clerk on duty, who reached into a drawer by the
counter, pulled a gun and fired at the men, hitting one would-be
robber in the chest. The suspects fled the store, and a man fitting
the description of the wounded robber was later located at a nearby
hospital where he was being treated for a bullet wound to the chest.
The second suspect was not located.
The Post-Standard, Syracuse, NY, 11/01/03
State: NY
American Rifleman Issue: 1/1/2004
Two would-be robbers found their presence was most unwelcome
at a Syracuse, N.Y., restaurant. The owner of the Welcome Inn was in
the restaurant's kitchen when a masked man entered the establishment
and aimed a gun at him, demanding money. Ready to defend himself, the
innkeeper drew his own .45-cal. pistol and aimed it at the gunman, who
fled the restaurant with another man.
News and Record, Greensboro, NC, 10/17/03
State: NC
American Rifleman Issue: 1/1/2004
Action Video store manager Ron Simpson says he knows guns. And
he knew the "gun" pointed at him in a store robbery was fake. A man
had approached the counter and pulled a gun from his waistband,
demanding money. Simpson, a Vietnam vet and gun aficionado, said the
gun resembled a 9 mm, but the muzzle was far too small to project a
bullet. "That is not a real gun," Simpson said. "This is a real gun,"
he added, pulling a .25-cal. handgun from his pocket. Simpson then
used a cordless phone to call the authorities. Caught in his 'fake
out,' the unarmed bandit fled when Simpson called the police.
The Sacramento Bee, Sacramento, CA, 08/31/03
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 12/1/2003
A bank robbery went awry when the suspects crashed their
getaway car in a Sacramento, Calif., suburb and took off running to
evade authorities. Ed Tippets was in his back yard, watching several
helicopters bear down on his neighborhood, obviously searching for
someone, when he noticed his dog, Charley, was acting strange. "That's
when I decided to get armed," he told authorities. Tippets recalled
that he went to the back of his house to load his gun and then began
searching room to room. Moving toward the kitchen, Tippets noticed a
shoulder in the doorway of his laundry room. "I saw a pistol pointing
at me, so I started firing," he said. The homeowner then ran outside
where he was ordered to the ground by police. The suspect, later
identified as Jermain Blair, fled the house and tried to escape by
jumping several fences. Blair confronted two police officers who had
given chase and was shot in the leg. A police task force is
investigating 13 other local bank robberies that may be linked to
Blair.
The Journal Gazette, Fort Wayne, IN, 08/27/03
State: IN
American Rifleman Issue: 11/1/2003
A Fort Wayne, Ind., liquor store clerk did more than cover for
a coworker when he worked an extra shift one Monday night. He may have
saved the lives of everyone in the store. The employee had come to
work at the Cap 'n Cork liquor store armed with a gun he carries for
personal protection as he rides a bike to and from the job. According
to police reports, a man entered the liquor store carrying a rifle,
which he then fired into the air in an apparent robbery attempt. The
armed employee then pulled his own gun and fatally shot the would-be
robber. A possible accomplice of the gunman fled the store after the
shooting.
Sun-Sentinel, Fort Lauderdale, FL, 07/31/03
State: FL
American Rifleman Issue: 11/1/2003
A Pompano Beach, Fla., jewelry store owner, Alfredo Guido, was
buzzing in a customer when four masked men pushed their way into the
store. The owner's son, Meliton Guido, grabbed a handgun from under
the counter and hid behind the cash register. One of the masked
intruders then pointed a gun at the store owner's head. Another of the
armed bandits saw that the younger Guido was armed and fired at him.
The owner's son fired back and struck one of the assailants. The son
then yelled for his father to jump over the counter and, as he did,
the four robbers tried to leave the store; but the door was locked.
The younger Guido hit the buzzer, and the men fled empty-handed. The
wounded robber collapsed outside the store and later died. Police were
still searching for the other suspects.
Arkansas Democrat Gazette, Little Rock, AR, 06/16/03
State: AR
American Rifleman Issue: 10/1/2003
Little Rock, Ark., man saved his own life late one night when
three people broke into his house. Upon seeing the intruders, Eric
Penny rushed into another room to retrieve his pistol when one man
fired a rifle in his direction. Unhurt, Penny returned fire, striking
all three. The armed assailant was shot in the head and later died of
his wounds. His two alleged accomplices, who fled the scene after
being shot, were located at a nearby medical clinic.
Denton Chronicle-Record, Denton, TX 06/17/03
State: OK
American Rifleman Issue: 9/1/2003
Stephen Heller was visiting with a woman who had called him
and then come over to his home when two masked men armed with a pistol
broke in, beat him and tried to tie him up. During the struggle,
Heller used his knife to cut one man and then grabbed his gun and
fatally shot the other man, later identified as Scott Howard. The
woman, Wyndie Odom, fled on foot with the other assailant, identified
as Travis Lee Smith. Odom's car was still in Heller's garage as he had
closed the garage door after she pulled in. Detective Sgt. Roger White
said it was believed the woman had brought the men with her to rob
Heller and that they had hidden in her trunk when she pulled into
Heller's garage. Odom and Smith were later arrested in Ardmore, Okla.
Tampa Tribune, Tampa, FL, 06/09/03
State: FL
American Rifleman Issue: 9/1/2003
A Tampa, Fla., resident shot and wounded a man who attacked
him as he entered his home early one morning. Michael Perdue was
returning to his home at 5 a.m. when a masked man forced him inside
the house. Perdue was able to retrieve his gun and shoot the intruder
three times before the man fled. Albert Lee Jones was arrested hours
later when he sought medical treatment for multiple gunshot wounds.
Jones was charged with aggravated battery, attempted armed robbery and
armed burglary.
The News Tribune, Tacoma, WA, 06/03/03
State: WA
American Rifleman Issue: 8/1/2003
A 64-year-old Tacoma, Wash., resident confined to his bed
managed to defend himself when attacked by an intruder. He had just
heard his wife leave the house when there was a loud bang, and then
the back door was kicked in. The homeowner grabbed his gun in one hand
and the phone to dial 9-1-1 with the other. That's when a strange man
entered his room, hiding his face with a handkerchief and intoning,
"I'm going to get you." According to the resident, "That's when I shot
him." The wounded intruder and an accomplice fled, and police alerted
area hospitals. The homeownerwho said hes kept a gun in his home for
protection for years, but had not fired it outside the range before
the incidentsaid, "I'm thoroughly convinced this guy would have killed
me."
The Oakland Press, Pontiac, MI, 05/13/03
State: MI
American Rifleman Issue: 8/1/2003
A 75-year-old Independence Township, Mich., man was sitting on
his couch watching television when he heard a loud noise. The
homeowner went to investigate, and as he entered the kitchen he
discovered three men coming in his back door, which had been kicked
open. There was an exchange of gunfire between the resident and
intruders, and the would-be burglars fled. Unfortunately, the man
wasn't able to provide good descriptions of the intruders for police.
St. Louis Post-Dispatch, St. Louis, MO, 01/16/03
State: MO
American Rifleman Issue: 4/1/2003
Two masked men entered the Michigan Market in St. Louis, Mo.,
just around lunchtime, and one man pointed a sawed-off shotgun at the
head of storeowner Martin McLafferty. The owner responded by knocking
away the gun in his face and grabbing his own pistol. He then shot one
of the gunmen, and the suspects fled in a pickup truck. Police found
gravely wounded suspect Charles Jackson shortly after the attempted
robbery. His accomplice, Damon Hayes, was arrested, as well. Jackson
died while in custody, and because he died during the commission of a
felony, his accomplice, Hayes, was charged with murder in addition to
the first-degree robbery charge.
New Castle News, New Castle, PA, 01/23/03
State: PA
American Rifleman Issue: 4/1/2003
A Volant, Pa., man was having a bothersome morning because
someone kept calling and hanging up. Then the man received a call from
a neighbor telling him he'd seen six people get out of a car with
hoods, scarves and latex gloves and were now sneaking around his
house. The homeowner surprised the group of bandits when they broke
in, and he held one of the intruders at gunpoint for police. The
others fled the scene in a green Buick. Police made five arrests, and
the homeowner recognized one of the suspects as a boy who attended his
church and had spent time with his family in his house. "I felt
terrible," he said when he recognized the suspect. "I treated the kid
like a son. Everyone was right. They told me not to bring him home."
Kingsport Times-News, Kingsport, TN, 01/20/03
State: TN
American Rifleman Issue: 4/1/2003
A masked man armed with knives approached a pharmacist and
demanded narcotics, but the pharmacist dispensed lead instead. The
suspect entered Marcum's Pharmacy in Kingsport, Tenn., at 2:10 p.m.
and approached pharmacy owner Carl Marcum, demanding the narcotic
drugs OxyContin and Percocet. Marcum pulled his .38-cal. handgun and
shot the suspect, who fled out the back door and drove off in a Buick.
Police notified local hospitals to be on the lookout for a man
suffering from a gunshot wound. Two hours later the suspect, Jeffery
Jessee, was arrested at a local hospital, where he was treated and
released. Jessee was charged with aggravated robbery.
WOUNDED
Times-News, Hendersonville, NC, 12/28/03
State: NC
American Rifleman Issue: 3/1/2004
A 34-year-old man tried to make good on threats he had made to
his ex-wife. Despite a court order demanding he stay away from his ex
and her home, the man broke into her house. The woman was fearful, as
her ex-husband had previously called her several times threatening to
kill her. She immediately picked up the phone and began to dial 9-1-1.
The intruder hit her in the face and knocked the phone out of her
hand. Another man, who lives in the home, picked up a .30-30 Win.
rifle and shot the woman's attacker in the leg. The wounded man was
airlifted to a local hospital. Sheriff's deputies say they had
responded to the same house numerous times prior to the shooting.
Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, Pittsburgh, PA, 01/04/04
State: PA
American Rifleman Issue: 3/1/2004
Two men entered Ann's Market one night in an apparent robbery
attempt, and one of them was shot by a store employee. Inside the
store, one of the would-be robbers brandished a handgun. Upon seeing
the gun, the clerk on duty pulled a firearm and shot his assailant.
The accomplice then fled the store. The wounded crook faces robbery
and firearms violations charges -- once he is released from the
hospital.
The Philadelphia Inquirer, Philadelphia, PA, 12/18/03
State: PA
American Rifleman Issue: 3/1/2004
Alex Patlakh, owner of Rush Jewelers in North Philadelphia,
shot one of a pair of thugs during an attempted robbery and was
wounded in the struggle when a bullet grazed his head and another hit
him in the shoulder. It was not the first business robbery the Patlakh
family had experienced. In 1999, Patlakh's son, Brogdan, was killed
when his jewelry store was robbed. This latest attempt occurred just
before 9:45 a.m. Two men stood at the door of the shop and motioned
that they wished to enter. Patlakh pressed a buzzer to open the door
and the men came inside, asking to look at some jewelry. One man
suddenly drew a gun, and a struggle ensued. Shots were exchanged,
leaving Patlakh and one of the robbers wounded. The second robber
escaped.
Daily Local News, Westchester, Pennsylvania, 11/07/03
State: PA
American Rifleman Issue: 2/1/2004
Two armed men burst into a Coatesville, Pennsylvania, home and
demanded money from the two occupants in the living room. One of the
armed invaders went up to the master bedroom and threatened to shoot
or beat the couple in bed if they didn't hand over some money. The man
in bed, identified as Omar Reid, grabbed a pistol from the nightstand
drawer and shot the robber just as he shot at Reid. With one intruder
down, Reid then raced down the stairs where he encountered the second
man and they exchanged fire. The second home invader fled the scene.
Reid was not injured during the gunfire. The wounded invader was taken
to the hospital.
Antelope Valley Press, Palmdale, CA, 09/21/03
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 1/1/2004
Two armed men entered Shamrock Liquor in Quartz Hill, Calif.,
wearing black masks over their faces. One of the masked bandits
pointed a gun at the clerk on duty, who reached into a drawer by the
counter, pulled a gun and fired at the men, hitting one would-be
robber in the chest. The suspects fled the store, and a man fitting
the description of the wounded robber was later located at a nearby
hospital where he was being treated for a bullet wound to the chest.
The second suspect was not located.
The Philadelphia Inquirer, Philadelphia, PA, 10/30/03
State: PA
American Rifleman Issue: 1/1/2004
Norman Woodall shot and killed one of two men who broke into
his home around 1:40 a.m. Woodall told police that one of the men had
been armed with a gun when the two kicked open his front door and
stormed in, apparently intending to rob him. Woodall struggled with
the would-be robbers and fired his own gun, striking one of the men in
the face and causing the second man to flee. The wounded assailant,
later identified as Darnell Woodward, was pronounced dead at the
scene.
The Huntsville Times, Huntsville, AL, 09/15/03
State: LA
American Rifleman Issue: 12/1/2003
In an odd turn of events, a Decatur, La., man shot an intruder
and then administered first aid to the wounded suspect. Ronald Kirk
was awakened just before dawn one Sunday by an intruder. Kirk shot the
would-be burglar in the leg and dialed 9-1-1. The homeowner then
applied pressure to the wound to slow the bleeding until police
arrived. The suspect, Robert Lee Goode, was taken to the hospital, and
later charged with second-degree burglary and possession of burglar's
tools.
San Antonio Express-News, San Antonio, TX, 08/28/03
State: TX
American Rifleman Issue: 11/1/2003
A home invasion in San Antonio, Texas, ended when the invader,
James Adam Garcia, was killed by the homeowner, Richard Gomez, Sr.
Gomez's son, Richard, Jr., told police he had been in the living room
watching TV when someone knocked at the door. When Gomez answered, a
man pushed his way inside saying, "This is a jack." The intruder,
later identified as Garcia, then repeated the phrase before shooting
the younger Gomez in the leg. Garcia then ordered the wounded man
toward the back of the house. The elder Gomez was in a bedroom with
his wife when he heard the gunshot. He grabbed a .357-cal. revolver
and left the bedroom to investigate. When Garcia saw Gomez, Sr., he
fired at him, striking the elder Gomez in the chest. The homeowner
then raised his gun and fired two shots at Garcia, killing him.
Sun-Sentinel, Fort Lauderdale, FL, 07/31/03
State: FL
American Rifleman Issue: 11/1/2003
A Pompano Beach, Fla., jewelry store owner, Alfredo Guido, was
buzzing in a customer when four masked men pushed their way into the
store. The owner's son, Meliton Guido, grabbed a handgun from under
the counter and hid behind the cash register. One of the masked
intruders then pointed a gun at the store owner's head. Another of the
armed bandits saw that the younger Guido was armed and fired at him.
The owner's son fired back and struck one of the assailants. The son
then yelled for his father to jump over the counter and, as he did,
the four robbers tried to leave the store; but the door was locked.
The younger Guido hit the buzzer, and the men fled empty-handed. The
wounded robber collapsed outside the store and later died. Police were
still searching for the other suspects.
The Daily Oklahoman, Oklahoma City, OK, 06/18/03
State: OK
American Rifleman Issue: 10/1/2003
It was not the first time R&R Jewelers of Oklahoma City, Okla.
had been robbed. When an armed man demanded money from storeowner
Larry Rowell, he complied and gave the miscreant some cash. But then
the robber turned to the diamond display case. In the ensuing exchange
of gunfire Rowell was wounded in the chest and the robber was killed.
Tampa Tribune, Tampa, FL, 06/09/03
State: FL
American Rifleman Issue: 9/1/2003
A Tampa, Fla., resident shot and wounded a man who attacked
him as he entered his home early one morning. Michael Perdue was
returning to his home at 5 a.m. when a masked man forced him inside
the house. Perdue was able to retrieve his gun and shoot the intruder
three times before the man fled. Albert Lee Jones was arrested hours
later when he sought medical treatment for multiple gunshot wounds.
Jones was charged with aggravated battery, attempted armed robbery and
armed burglary.
Southwest News, Bellaire, TX, 05/13/03
State: TX
American Rifleman Issue: 8/1/2003
A south Houston, Texas, couple was loading items into their
car in front of their home when two young men approached them and
struck up a conversation. The woman said the men made her
uncomfortable, and she immediately backed away from them. She noticed
that as one man kept talking the other was moving behind her husband
and kept his hand deep in his pants pocket. The woman ran inside and
called 9-1-1 and then looked out her front window. One of the men now
had a gun pointed at her husband's head. She then ran into another
room and picked up a gun just as the second man burst into her house.
He came straight at her, and she fired the gun, striking him in the
arm. The wounded man ran from the house, shouting to his partner that
he'd been shot. The nefarious duo then ran off in opposite directions.
Police had the two 16-year-old suspects in custody within minutes.
The News Tribune, Tacoma, WA, 06/03/03
State: WA
American Rifleman Issue: 8/1/2003
A 64-year-old Tacoma, Wash., resident confined to his bed
managed to defend himself when attacked by an intruder. He had just
heard his wife leave the house when there was a loud bang, and then
the back door was kicked in. The homeowner grabbed his gun in one hand
and the phone to dial 9-1-1 with the other. That's when a strange man
entered his room, hiding his face with a handkerchief and intoning,
"I'm going to get you." According to the resident, "That's when I shot
him." The wounded intruder and an accomplice fled, and police alerted
area hospitals. The homeownerwho said hes kept a gun in his home for
protection for years, but had not fired it outside the range before
the incidentsaid, "I'm thoroughly convinced this guy would have killed
me."
The Arizona Republic, Phoenix, AZ, 05/20/03
State: AZ
American Rifleman Issue: 8/1/2003
A Phoenix, Ariz., construction equipment company had been hit
by a string of burglaries, so the owners decided to take turns
standing guard at night to ward off any more thieves. Early one
Tuesday morning Douglas Click, one of the owners at Arizona Hi-Lift,
was guarding the company armed with a shotgun. He confronted two men
who were stealing items from the equipment yard, and they attacked him
with a metal rod, according to Phoenix Police Detective Tony Morales.
Click responded by firing at his attackers, and one was fatally
wounded. Detective Morales said no charges would be filed against
Click as, "he was in fear of his life and he was being attacked."
Los Angeles Times, Los Angeles, CA, 02/27/03
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 6/1/2003
Vanessa Perrigoue had just taken her 4-year-old terrier,
Ethan, out for a morning walk in their Laguna Niguel neighborhood when
two large dogs jumped the smaller dog. Perrigoue screamed and
attempted to rescue Ethan, but the dogs, a pit bull mix and Labrador
mix, continued their vicious attack. Upon hearing his wife's screams,
Joseph Perrigoue grabbed his .45-cal. handgun and went to her aid. The
Perrigoues' dog, Ethan, had been killed and his attackers had run off.
Perrigoue followed the dogs' bloody tracks back to a nearby apartment.
When he knocked on the door, both dogs jumped out an open window and
attacked him. Perrigoue defended himself, shooting both dogs.
Animal-control officers took the wounded dogs away and attempted to
contact their owner, whom neighbors said had been out of town for
several days.
The Tampa Tribune, Tampa, FL, 02/01/03
State: FL
American Rifleman Issue: 5/1/2003
Teresa Castellano and her 6-year-old daughter, Alysa, were
visiting Alysa's friend, Kaitlyn, at her home when terror erupted
inside. The girls were watching TV and began laughing loudly at
something they had seen. The abrupt laughter apparently startled the
dogs in the house, which began growling and barking. Sensing the two
rottweilers and pit bull were not playing around, Castellano tried to
get the girls to be quiet, but the dogs attacked them, biting Kaitlyn
and Alysa. Castellano was able to distract the dogs, which allowed the
girls time to run to safety at a neighbor's house, but by then
Castellano herself was being attacked. Two neighbors armed with
handguns fired on the dogs to get them to release the woman. One of
the armed men was bitten in the leg during the struggle. One dog was
killed, and the other two retreated back into the house. Authorities
found one dog wounded and the other lying on the floor inside. They
were taken to a local animal shelter and later euthanized. Castellano
and her daughter each required 100 stitches to close their wounds, and
Kaitlyn needed 20 stitches.
St. Louis Post-Dispatch, St. Louis, MO, 01/16/03
State: MO
American Rifleman Issue: 4/1/2003
Two masked men entered the Michigan Market in St. Louis, Mo.,
just around lunchtime, and one man pointed a sawed-off shotgun at the
head of storeowner Martin McLafferty. The owner responded by knocking
away the gun in his face and grabbing his own pistol. He then shot one
of the gunmen, and the suspects fled in a pickup truck. Police found
gravely wounded suspect Charles Jackson shortly after the attempted
robbery. His accomplice, Damon Hayes, was arrested, as well. Jackson
died while in custody, and because he died during the commission of a
felony, his accomplice, Hayes, was charged with murder in addition to
the first-degree robbery charge.
KILLED
Clarion-Ledger, Jackson, Mississippi, 12/02/03
State: MS
American Rifleman Issue: 2/1/2004
A Madison County, Mississippi, woman shot and killed her
attacker during a home invasion. The woman had answered her door late
one evening when a man armed with a gun forced his way inside. "He
physically assaulted her," reported Madison County Sheriff Toby
Trowbridge. The homeowner managed to pull her gun just as her attacker
drew his. The home invader, shot in the abdomen, ran from the house
and collapsed in the driveway, according to police reports. A
suspected accomplice drove away in a car and has not been located. The
homeowner was taken to the hospital suffering from a gunshot wound to
her side, and was reported to be in stable condition.
The Forum, Fargo, ND, 10/30/03
State: ND
American Rifleman Issue: 1/1/2004
Kim Fedje shot and killed two dogs that had viciously attacked
a herd of 13 llamas in her care before turning and charging her. Fedje
was out on her morning rounds feeding the animals. As she approached
the llamas, she noticed they were huddled together in a defensive
stance. That's when she saw two dogs circling the herd. When she
called out to the llamas, the dogs turned in her direction. "I could
hear them growling from 40 yards away," Fedje recalled. "They were
making a beeline for me. I thought I was dead." Fedje reacted by
firing her rifle at the attacking dogs. The first dog fell after two
or three shots, the second dog continued toward her until she had
emptied her gun. Fedje called her fianc� who went back out with her to
examine the animals. All 13 llamas had suffered dog bites. The dogs, a
labrador/rottweiler mix, belonged to a neighbor who had taken them out
for a walk the night before. Both animals had run off into a cornfield
and did not return.
The Philadelphia Inquirer, Philadelphia, PA, 10/30/03
State: PA
American Rifleman Issue: 1/1/2004
Norman Woodall shot and killed one of two men who broke into
his home around 1:40 a.m. Woodall told police that one of the men had
been armed with a gun when the two kicked open his front door and
stormed in, apparently intending to rob him. Woodall struggled with
the would-be robbers and fired his own gun, striking one of the men in
the face and causing the second man to flee. The wounded assailant,
later identified as Darnell Woodward, was pronounced dead at the
scene.
Las Vegas Review-Journal, Las Vegas, NV, 09/18/03
State: NV
American Rifleman Issue: 12/1/2003
A Las Vegas, Nev., woman shot and killed her next-door
neighbor, whom she had previously caught burglarizing her home. Felipe
Starks was trying to evade police officers, who wanted him in
connection with a string of burglaries and a parole violation, by
using a crawl space above the two apartments. The woman had just
stepped out of her shower when Starks crashed through her ceiling.
Fearing for her life, she picked up a gun she had purchased after the
burglary in April, and fired several shots at Starks, who ran back
into his apartment. Police took him into custody, but he later died of
his wounds. Las Vegas homicide Lt. Tom Monahan said it appeared the
woman had cause to fear for her life. "If a man fell through the
ceiling right after you're getting out of the shower -- I'm told she
had just finished drying off -- I think it's reasonable that you would
be terrified," he said.
San Antonio Express-News, San Antonio, TX, 08/28/03
State: TX
American Rifleman Issue: 11/1/2003
A home invasion in San Antonio, Texas, ended when the invader,
James Adam Garcia, was killed by the homeowner, Richard Gomez, Sr.
Gomez's son, Richard, Jr., told police he had been in the living room
watching TV when someone knocked at the door. When Gomez answered, a
man pushed his way inside saying, "This is a jack." The intruder,
later identified as Garcia, then repeated the phrase before shooting
the younger Gomez in the leg. Garcia then ordered the wounded man
toward the back of the house. The elder Gomez was in a bedroom with
his wife when he heard the gunshot. He grabbed a .357-cal. revolver
and left the bedroom to investigate. When Garcia saw Gomez, Sr., he
fired at him, striking the elder Gomez in the chest. The homeowner
then raised his gun and fired two shots at Garcia, killing him.
The Commercial Appeal, Memphis, TN, 06/16/03
State: TN
American Rifleman Issue: 10/1/2003
David Ronald Washington, the alleged Memphis, Tenn., 'cat
burglar' tied to a string of residential burglaries, was killed during
an altercation with a homeowner. Washington, who had crept through a
window, came face to face with the resident who shot him during the
ensuing struggle. The burglary spree began in early May, and despite
stepped up patrols by police, they were unable to catch the criminal.
Burglary Bureau Maj. Billy Garrett said, "I hate for someone to lose
their life, but for all of those innocent victims out there -- they
don't have to worry about this particular guy."
The Washington Post, Washington, DC, 07/14/03
State: MD
American Rifleman Issue: 10/1/2003
A would-be robber had the bad fortune of choosing the wrong
restaurant to rob when he was shot and killed by an employee at the
Oriental Express restaurant in Laurel, Md. Prince George's County
police spokeswoman Cpl. Tammy Sparkman reported that a man entered the
restaurant about 9:30 p.m., drew a gun, demanded money and grabbed a
restaurant worker. Upon seeing a coworker held at gunpoint, another
employee, armed with a gun, ran out of the restaurant's kitchen and
fatally shot the robber.
The Daily Oklahoman, Oklahoma City, OK, 06/18/03
State: OK
American Rifleman Issue: 10/1/2003
It was not the first time R&R Jewelers of Oklahoma City, Okla.
had been robbed. When an armed man demanded money from storeowner
Larry Rowell, he complied and gave the miscreant some cash. But then
the robber turned to the diamond display case. In the ensuing exchange
of gunfire Rowell was wounded in the chest and the robber was killed.
The Record-Courier, Gardnerville, NV, 08/06/03
State: NV
American Rifleman Issue: 10/1/2003
A Gardnerville, Nev., home-owner shot and killed a man who
broke into his home. According to police reports, Walter Francis
Hetrick of Antioch, Calif., broke a window next to a door at 11:24
p.m. and then entered through the door. Charles Cryderman heard
someone breaking in and called police. The homeowner, armed with a
.357-cal. revolver, then shot the intruder when he entered his home.
Douglas County Sheriff's investigator Mike Biaggini said that a man
protecting 'his castle' against someone committing a felony such as
home invasion and burglary is allowed to defend himself. "He was in
fear of his life," Biaggini explained. "His whole family was there."
Times-Picayune, New Orleans, LA, 06/11/03
State: LA
American Rifleman Issue: 9/1/2003
A Central City hubcap store-owner shot and killed a man during
an armed robbery attempt. The owner of Meyer's Auto Parts told police
that a man entered his store around 6 p.m. and asked him several
questions about hubcaps. The man then appeared to look around the
store a few times, which made the owner nervous. The shopkeeper wisely
retrieved a gun from under the counter and discreetly tucked it into
the small of his back. Shortly thereafter, the suspect drew a small
Russian-made pistol and demanded money. The owner reported that he
reached behind his back in a deliberate motion as though he was going
for his wallet, but drew his gun instead. Police reported that the
owner apparently fired one time, hitting the robbery suspect in the
chest. The gunman ran from the store but collapsed nearby and was
later pronounced dead at the hospital.
The News Tribune, Tacoma, WA, 06/03/03
State: WA
American Rifleman Issue: 8/1/2003
A 64-year-old Tacoma, Wash., resident confined to his bed
managed to defend himself when attacked by an intruder. He had just
heard his wife leave the house when there was a loud bang, and then
the back door was kicked in. The homeowner grabbed his gun in one hand
and the phone to dial 9-1-1 with the other. That's when a strange man
entered his room, hiding his face with a handkerchief and intoning,
"I'm going to get you." According to the resident, "That's when I shot
him." The wounded intruder and an accomplice fled, and police alerted
area hospitals. The homeownerwho said hes kept a gun in his home for
protection for years, but had not fired it outside the range before
the incidentsaid, "I'm thoroughly convinced this guy would have killed
me."
Journal Star, Peoria, IL, 03/12/03
State: IL
American Rifleman Issue: 6/1/2003
The day after he was released from prison, where he served
time for domestic battery against Charolette Gates, Christopher Winder
broke into Gates' home. A fight broke out, and Gates reached for a
handgun to defend herself. Gates shot Winder once in the chest. Police
discovered Winder collapsed in a neighbor's back yard, and he was
later pronounced dead at the scene. No charges were expected to be
filed against Gates, according to Peoria County State's Attorney Kevin
Lyons. "Your home is your sanctuary, and if an intruder breaks in and
gets killed, then too bad for the intruder," Lyons said. "I am not
going to victimize her yet again because a recently released felon
decided to invade the quiet world of her home."
Los Angeles Times, Los Angeles, CA, 02/27/03
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 6/1/2003
Vanessa Perrigoue had just taken her 4-year-old terrier,
Ethan, out for a morning walk in their Laguna Niguel neighborhood when
two large dogs jumped the smaller dog. Perrigoue screamed and
attempted to rescue Ethan, but the dogs, a pit bull mix and Labrador
mix, continued their vicious attack. Upon hearing his wife's screams,
Joseph Perrigoue grabbed his .45-cal. handgun and went to her aid. The
Perrigoues' dog, Ethan, had been killed and his attackers had run off.
Perrigoue followed the dogs' bloody tracks back to a nearby apartment.
When he knocked on the door, both dogs jumped out an open window and
attacked him. Perrigoue defended himself, shooting both dogs.
Animal-control officers took the wounded dogs away and attempted to
contact their owner, whom neighbors said had been out of town for
several days.
The Sacramento Bee, Sacramento, CA, 03/05/03
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 5/1/2003
Chad Lewis answered a knock at the door of his Sacramento
County, Calif., home late one night and was attacked by a frightening
figure. The home invader, wearing a ski mask and armed with a metal
pipe, struck Lewis repeatedly on the upper body and head. Lewis'
roommate was recovering from knee surgery and could not physically
assist him, but managed to call 9-1-1 and get hold of his rifle, as he
feared Lewis would be killed in the attack. Meanwhile, Lewis broke
free from his assailant and retrieved a handgun from his bedroom. A
struggle ensued over the gun, but Lewis was finally able to pull free
and shoot his attacker. When authorities arrived, both Lewis and the
intruder were taken to the hospital. Lewis' condition was serious, and
his attacker was in critical condition with a gunshot wound to the
head.
The Tampa Tribune, Tampa, FL, 02/01/03
State: FL
American Rifleman Issue: 5/1/2003
Teresa Castellano and her 6-year-old daughter, Alysa, were
visiting Alysa's friend, Kaitlyn, at her home when terror erupted
inside. The girls were watching TV and began laughing loudly at
something they had seen. The abrupt laughter apparently startled the
dogs in the house, which began growling and barking. Sensing the two
rottweilers and pit bull were not playing around, Castellano tried to
get the girls to be quiet, but the dogs attacked them, biting Kaitlyn
and Alysa. Castellano was able to distract the dogs, which allowed the
girls time to run to safety at a neighbor's house, but by then
Castellano herself was being attacked. Two neighbors armed with
handguns fired on the dogs to get them to release the woman. One of
the armed men was bitten in the leg during the struggle. One dog was
killed, and the other two retreated back into the house. Authorities
found one dog wounded and the other lying on the floor inside. They
were taken to a local animal shelter and later euthanized. Castellano
and her daughter each required 100 stitches to close their wounds, and
Kaitlyn needed 20 stitches.
Tulsa World, Tulsa, OK, 01/26/03
State: OK
American Rifleman Issue: 4/1/2003
A "good Samaritan" came to the rescue of a woman who was the
apparent victim of a sexual assault in downtown Tulsa, Okla. The man
was surveying possible construction sites in the area when he saw two
partially disrobed people struggling in an alleyway. When the woman
screamed for help, the man ran to assist her. The suspect then jumped
into his vehicle, a Ford Taurus, and tried to hit his victim with the
car. The Samaritan responded by drawing a .40-cal. handgun and firing
several shots at the woman's assailant, who was killed. Sergeant Mike
Huff said the woman tried to get a ride home from her attacker, when
the man pulled into the alley and attempted to assault her. Referring
to the woman's rescuer, Huff said, "It appears that this man really
interrupted a bad situation."
The Baltimore Sun, Baltimore, MD, 10/20/02
State: MD
American Rifleman Issue: 2/1/2003
A 19-year-old Midtown, Md., man was shot and killed when he
opened fire on two motorists stopped at a red light. The man in the
second of the two cars drew his own gun and shot back. Andre Lamont
Hill approached a car stopped at a red light in Baltimore at 10:20
p.m. and fired multiple times, hitting that car and a car directly
behind it. When the second car was sprayed with bullets, the driver,
who had a permit to carry a gun, fired back, striking Hill several
times in the head. The motive for the attack was unknown, according to
Baltimore police.
"Trevor Wilson" <tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:4637b908$0$23226$8826...@free.teranews.com...
Here are the FBI figures for the last few years:
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_14.html
2001 - 183
2002 - 189
2003 - 203
2004 - 166
2005 - 143
WOUNDED
Goldsboro News-Argus, Goldsboro, N.C., 12/7/04
State: NC
American Rifleman Issue: 12/1/2004
Michael Strickland was taking care of some business matters in
his home near Whiteville, N.C., when two men entered. One of them
pulled a gun and demanded a receipt for nine months' rent, threatening
to kill Strickland and his wife if he did not hand it over. Strickland
feigned compliance, but reached for his .38 Spl. revolver, fired, and
killed the armed man. The accomplice fled. The fatally wounded gunman
was found to have a lengthy criminal record.
Orlando Sentinel, Orlando, FL, 08/11/04
State: FL
American Rifleman Issue: 12/1/2004
"I feel like I protected my own life," said Judy Foster
regarding an attempted robbery she stopped at the Haines City,
Florida, Mister Money USA store. Foster, the proprietor, had been
through a robbery before, so when two men came into the store carrying
guns, she did not hesitate to pull out her pistol and fire. One man
fell to the ground, but managed to get up, and then the two robbers
fled the store. Thomas Wiley, who was fatally wounded by Foster's
bullet, was later found dead in a stolen car. Bernard Geddis, the
driver in the incident, was arrested on charges of second-degree
murder and attempted armed robbery. At press time, Taurean Brown was
being sought as the suspected second gunman.
Star Gazette, Elmira, N.Y., 11/11/04
State: NY
American Rifleman Issue: 11/1/2004
When a Windham Township, Penn., homeowner woke up and
discovered a burglar in his home, he acted quickly. The homeowner
grabbed a gun, and, when confronted by the intruder, shot him. The
wounded man fled, but was later found by police at a local hospital.
Dallas Morning News, Dallas, Tex., 11/29/04
State: TX
American Rifleman Issue: 11/1/2004
Seeing an armed man enter the Dallas, Tex., gas station that
had been the scene of prior robberies, a station attendant reacted
quickly, retrieving a gun. When the would-be robber aimed his gun at
him, the employee shot first, wounding his assailant in the side.
Police took the wounded suspect into custody, and believe that he may
have been responsible for several other robberies over the past month.
The San Francisco Chronicle, San Francisco, CA, 07/25/04
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 10/1/2004
An East Oakland, Calif., market employee thwarted a robbery
attempt at the 3M Market early one Saturday. The alleged robber,
identified as David Mosely, was wounded in his head and back and left
the store. Police were called to a nearby apartment to investigate a
call about a man covered in blood but did not locate the suspect when
they arrived. Mosely was arrested a short time later when he attempted
to steal a car. He was charged with attempted robbery and taken to the
hospital.
The Times, Munster, IN, 07/29/04
State: IN
American Rifleman Issue: 10/1/2004
James Shema, owner of Shema's Outdoor Sports in Merrillville,
Ind., knew immediately he was in a deadly situation. A man entered his
store with a sawed-off shotgun and ordered Shema, his wife, Kathy, and
three customers to drop to the floor. As Shema moved toward the floor,
he grabbed a .40-cal. handgun he kept behind the counter and fired two
shots at the robber. The wounded gunman fled the store and was soon
apprehended by authorities who found him bleeding in the back seat of
a nearby SUV. Shema said he just did what he had to do. "When he came
in here with a shotgun and no mask on his face I didn't think he
planned to leave survivors," Shema explained.
Muskegon Chronicle, Muskegon, Mich., 10/6/04
State: MI
American Rifleman Issue: 10/1/2004
Hearing noises in his Egelston Township, Mich., store, Michael
Moore wondered if an animal had gotten inside and went to investigate.
Instead, he found himself confronted by a burglar. Moore retrieved his
shotgun and fired once when the man refused to freeze. The wounded
intruder who was soon arrested. Muskegon County Prosecutor Tony Tague
ruled Moore acted in self-defense and would not be charged.
Jacksonville Times-Union, Jacksonville, Fla., 10/6/04
State: FL
American Rifleman Issue: 10/1/2004
When his Jacksonville, Fla., home was broken into by a butcher
knife-wielding intruder who demanded the keys to his car, Richard
Clark said the keys were in another room. When the invader began a
search for the keys, Clark was able to retrieve his .38-cal. revolver,
fire, and wounded the crook. Police soon arrested the intruder, saying
the suspect was linked to three prior burglaries.
Washington Times, Washington, D.C., 10/13/04
State: AL
American Rifleman Issue: 10/1/2004
A homeowner in Shelby, Ala., found four men breaking into his
home, so he retrieved a gun, fired and wounded one man. The four
burglars fled, and the wounded suspect was later taken to a hospital,
where he was taken into custody. It was later learned the man was one
of four inmates who had escaped from a Georgia prison.
Muncie Star Press, Muncie, Ind., 8/28/04
State: IN
American Rifleman Issue: 9/1/2004
When four masked men walked into the Prairie Creek Pawn Shop
in Muncie, Ind., owner Adam Kennedy knew that they weren't there to
conduct a normal transaction. When one of the robbers pulled out a
revolver and fired it at Kennedy, Kennedy returned fire with his own
handgun, wounding the gunman. The would-be robbers all fled. The
wounded suspect was dropped off at a hospital. He and two suspected
accomplices were soon apprehended.
The Town Talk, Alexandria, La., 6/21/04
State: LA
American Rifleman Issue: 8/1/2004
Tamer Abdulwahab and his cousin, Abdulwahab Zeidan, were at
the counter of the Alexandria, La., convenience store where they work
when a man came in and pulled out a gun. Abdulwahab stepped out of
sight and drew his gun. When the man fired at Zeidan, Abdulwahab
returned fire, striking the would-be robber twice. The fatally wounded
suspect fled.
Oakland Tribune, Oakland, California, 7/25/04
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 8/1/2004
When an armed robber entered a convenience store, his first
action was to order the clerk to hit the floor. Instead the clerk drew
a .38-caliber pistol and fired. The wounded would-be robber fled to
his car. An alert police officer later captured the suspect who was
taken to a hospital.
The Paris News, Paris, Tex., 7/27/04
State: TX
American Rifleman Issue: 8/1/2004
When three men seeking winnings from a day at a casino carried
out a home invasion in Paris, Tex., a victim used his wits to get what
he needed to protect himself. Convincing the robbers the money was at
his mother's house, he was taken to that location where he retrieved a
handgun. When a burglar alarm was activated, the bandits began firing.
Their would-be victim returned fire, hitting one of the men in the
hand. The trio fled, and a wounded suspect later turned himself in to
authorities.
The Indianapolis Star, Indianapolis, IN, 4/4/04
State: IN
American Rifleman Issue: 7/1/2004
George Finch, 75, was sleeping in his recliner when he heard
the sounds of glass breaking. Someone had broken a back window and was
now entering his home. Finch then got his gun and encountered the
interloper in his kitchen. "He stepped into the kitchen and he [the
intruder] was right there. My dad told him to stop," Finch's daughter,
Debbie Skaggs, recalls her father telling her. Finch told her the man
'just kept coming' so he fired one shot, hitting the would-be thief in
the leg. The wounded man, later identified by police as Kevin
Richardson, made his escape through the same window he had entered,
ran a short distance and collapsed. Richardson, who died shortly
thereafter, had a history of theft, trespass and prostitution arrests.
Los Angeles Times, Los Angeles, CA, 4/7/04
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 7/1/2004
Three armed men attempted to rob a jewelry store on East
Sepulveda Boulevard in Los Angeles. They confronted the storeowner
demanding jewels and cash. When they began shooting, the owner
returned fire, shooting one of the gunmen. The three fled the store,
but the wounded robber collapsed in a nearby market and died.
The Olympian, Olympia, Wash., 7/3/04
State: WA
American Rifleman Issue: 7/1/2004
A restraining order did not stop a series of threats and
vandalism directed at Rainier, Wash., resident Donald Skewis. When the
subject of the restraining order appeared on Skewis' property, armed
with a baseball bat and knife, Skewis ordered him to stop. When
instead the man continued advancing, Skewis fired his revolver and
mortally wounded the intruder.
Jefferson Post, West Jefferson, NC, 02/17/04
State: NC
American Rifleman Issue: 6/1/2004
Paul Ham and his son, Jimmy, entered a mobile home on their
property to repair a water leak for tenant Kevin Clark. As they walked
in, the Hams encountered a couple staying with Clark, William and
Kristina Tuell. William Tuell immediately began shooting at the Hams,
hitting the elder Ham in the head and shooting Jimmy Ham in the face.
Both Hams then ran for their house, with Tuell and his wife on their
heels. The attack continued in the Hams' home as Tuell and his wife
attempted to shoot the entire Ham family. Kristina Tuell was wrestled
to the ground by Ham's daughter, Sherry, but managed to escape. Though
wounded, Jimmy Ham finally managed to secure a gun and kill Tuell with
one shot. Kristina Tuell was later arrested after a massive manhunt
and faces multiple charges, including attempted murder and assault
with a deadly weapon.
Boston Herald, Boston, MA, 01/23/04
State: MA
American Rifleman Issue: 4/1/2004
A Somerville, Mass., resident had just stepped out of his
shower when he heard unusual sounds at the back of his house. When a
man broke through his back door, the homeowner retrieved a handgun,
confronted the intruder and shot him in the shoulder. The wounded
burglar ran from the house, but police were able to track him by
following a trail of blood to a nearby rail station. The suspect was
treated at a local hospital for the gunshot wound, and police were
expected to charge him with breaking and entering.
"Trevor Wilson" <tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:4637b908$0$23226$8826...@free.teranews.com...
Here are the FBI figures for the last few years:
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_14.html
2001 - 183
2002 - 189
2003 - 203
2004 - 166
2005 - 143
WOUNDED
The Kansas City Star, Kansas City, MO, 08/02/05
State: mo
American Rifleman Issue: 11/1/2005
A 66-year-old contract carrier for a Kansas City newspaper
still doesn't know what his attackers wanted, but he does know that
he's lucky to have been armed. His shift was just beginning at about 3
a.m., when four assailants sprinted toward him, forcing him back to
the safety of his van. But before the carrier could get away, the
biggest attacker, along with his three accomplices, began pummeling
the man through the driver-side window. During the ordeal, the van
drifted forward and slammed into a store, at which point the carrier
retrieved a .380-cal. handgun and fired three shots out his window,
causing the attackers to flee. Authorities were unsure if any of the
thugs were wounded. The carrier was left bruised and bleeding, but he
considered himself fortunate to be alive. "I thought these guys just
weren't going to let up," he said. "He intended to knock me out, maybe
leave me for dead. At that time, he'd get whatever he wanted."
The Times-Picayune, New Orleans, LA, 07/20/05
State: LA
American Rifleman Issue: 10/1/2005
When a young man showed up at Breaux's Jewelers in New Orleans
dressed as an old lady-complete with a walker, purse, gray wig and tan
dress-the ruse was good enough to get him buzzed inside. But
storeowner Mike Breaux quickly saw through the disguise and drew his
handgun just as police say the suspect started to pull a handgun out
of his purse and leap over the counter. Breaux fired, striking and
incapacitating the would-be robber. From outside, a second suspect
fired several shots through the glass front door as Breaux and one of
his employees, who had picked up the first suspect's gun, returned
fire. Breaux was grazed by a bullet before the wounded man fled with
yet another accomplice. The second suspect turned up at a hospital
later with gunshot wounds to his neck, back and arm. The first suspect
was taken from the store by ambulance. Both men were listed in
critical condition.
The News-Press, Fort Myers, FL, 06/07/05
State: FL
American Rifleman Issue: 10/1/2005
The two masked men who burst into a North Fort Myers, Fla.,
pharmacy demanding drugs didn't notice the pharmacy technician, who
was a concealed-weapons permit holder, crouched in the back. When one
robber leapt onto the countertop and waved a pistol at the clerk, the
technician took action, opening fire with a .45-cal. pistol and
hitting the armed man in the stomach. Both suspects fled the scene.
Police believed the wounded man was a career criminal with 14 felony
convictions since 1990 who was released from prison in January. "I
knew for sure this guy was going to kill me," the technician said. "I
was so afraid. I knew if I died, [the clerk] was going to die."
Las Vegas Sun, Las Vegas, NV, 12/24/04
State: NV
American Rifleman Issue: 1/1/2005
A restraining order did not prevent a woman's ex-boyfriend
from kicking down the front door of her Sparks, Nev., apartment at
2:40 a.m. The man proceeded to attack a co-worker of the woman with a
metal lamp, injuring him. The assailant then turned his attention to
the woman, but the co-worker retrieved a handgun and fatally wounded
the intruder.
Houston Chronicle, Houston, TX, 01/05/05
State: TX
American Rifleman Issue: 1/1/2005
Early one morning, three men forced their way into a Houston,
Tex., house and opened fire on the family. The husband raced to the
bedroom, retrieved his own gun, and returned fire. One of the
intruders was critically wounded, and the other two fled the scene.
jf...@ix.netcom.com
Balance your list to those that have been saved by the use of a gun:
F Murtz
Has not reduced mass murders, just mass murders by firearms.
John - Melb
> On Jun 24, 8:18 pm, "Trevor Wilson" <tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "John - Melb" <mcnamara_j...@hotmail.com> wrote in messagenews:665071a8-85f6-4eb8...@u9g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> > On Jun 24, 6:22 am, John - Melb <mcnamara_j...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jun 23, 2:32 pm, "Trevor Wilson" <tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > * What is wrong with good, strong, sane gun control laws?
>
>
> > > > **Projection, projection, projection. Try to cite some facts once in
> > > > awhile,
> > > > rather than projecting your opinions.
>
> > > opinion, at the same time expecting that other post to answer a
> > > question based on Trevor's opoinion?
>
> > > So tell us Trevor, who says Australian's gun laws are "good, stong or
> > > sane"?
>
> > > Are laws which allow criminals charged with illegal possession of an
> > > automatic pistol to "get off" if the serial number is ground of the
> > > weapon "good, strong or sane"?
>
> > > Are laws which place an antique pinfire, for which ammunition hasn't
> > > been commercially available since before the First World War, under
> > > the same class of licence as a modern handgun "good, strong or sane"?
>
> > > Are laws which base the security required for ammunition storage not
> > > on the damage that could be caused if that ammuntion was stolen, but
> > > on the class of licence the ammunition is held under, whereby,
> > > ammuntion held on one type of licence is subject to greater storage
> > > requirements than identical ammuntion held on a different type of
> > > licence, "good, strong and sane"?
>
> > > > * Do you feel that criminals, drunks, drug addicts and nutters should
> > > > have
> > > > unfettered access to firearms?
>
> > > nutters", you've previously described me as all four.
>
> > Failure by Trevor to make any attempt to actually answer the questions
> > put to him is noted.
>
> > Why am I not surprised.
>
> > **Good one, idiot. I pop inside for my evening meal and you give me 11
> > minutes to answer your idiotic rants.
>
> > Sheesh!
>
> Check the times again fool...........- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Have you checked the times on those posts yet Trevor?
Scout
Asked before and answer. Did you not bother to read the answers I've
already given, or are you so fucking stupid that you forgot them already????
<snip irrelevent list>
Oh, and if you want a list of people that have been physically injured
due to restration you can start with all the victims of violent crime in
DC and Chicago because of those cities registration requirement.
Scout
Trevor Wilson wrote:
> Now, I will describe the injuries suffered by some people who WERE affected
> by lax gun control laws in the US:
Please note the injuries suffered were the result of ILLEGAL firearms
activity and NOTHING concerning the criminals guns from their access,
possession or use was legal. Yet, Trevor claims that all this illegal
activity was the fault of the laws despite it already being illegal and
that one more law would have changed EVERYTHING.
Of course, Trevor won't explain exactly how this law would have changed
anything since the criminals themselves didn't buy the guns they used.
But, hey, just because his proposed 'solution' would have done nothing
to change this event, naturally Trevor feels justified in using the
blood of these victims to advance a political agenda which would NOT
HAVE ALTERED ANYTHING.
You, Trevor, are scum.
John - Melb
wrote:
And you've only just noticed?
Scout
No, just pointing it out clearly for the lurkers.