Re: Eight Republicans Help Stop Guns Getting To Drug Lords
RichTravsky
>
> "Too much work [was] left undone. After a few sleepless nights, I wrote
> for myself a list of issues on which I needed to do more in the years
> ahead. One of those issues was global regulation of small arms." --
> Harold Hongju Koh (2001)
>
> Friday, June 26, 2009
>
> Imagine that. The Senate confirmed this week, by a vote of 62-35, a
> gun banner who stays up at night thinking of ways to impose more gun
> control upon American citizens.
>
> Harold Koh is that gun grabber, and he was confirmed yesterday to be
> the Legal Adviser at the State Department.
>
> On Wednesday, Senate Republicans attempted to kill the Koh nomination
> with a filibuster -- until eight of them crossed the aisle to help
> Democrats confirm Koh.
>
> The back-stabbing Senators are: Lamar Alexander (R-TN), Susan Collins
> (R-ME), Judd Gregg (R-NH), Orrin Hatch (R-UT), Richard Lugar (R-IN),
> Mel Martinez (R-FL), Olympia Snowe (R-ME) and George Voinovich (R-OH).
>
> Once the filibuster was thwarted, Koh's nomination passed easily. The
> vote on final passage can be viewed at: http://tinyurl.com/m4m2f5
>
> Koh is eager to assume his post at the State Department, having
> lamented that there is only so much that can be done from the outside
> to push gun control treaties, and that ultimately we need people like
> him in positions of power. The chief lawyer for the State Department
> is just the position someone like him needs to push more gun control
> through international treaties.
>
> GOA will continue watching for any attempt by the Obama administration
> to foist an international gun control treaty upon the citizens of the
> U.S.
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/mexico/090424/record-number-guns-mexico-traced-the-us
In 2008, a year during which more than 7,000 Mexicans were killed in drug violence,
a record number of weapons confiscated in Mexico were traced to U.S. retailers,
according to the latest available government data obtained by GlobalPost.
The number of traced firearms that originated in the U.S. � 12,073 � is by far the
most ever recorded in one year since the U.S. Bureau of Tobacco, Alcohol, Firearms
and Explosives began tracing Mexico's seized guns in 2005.
The 2008 figure is more than the last three years combined, and it brings the total
number of guns confiscated in Mexico and traced to American sources to 22,848.
The tracing numbers, which the ATF plans to officially release in a report next
month,
are significant in that they provide the only statistical indication of the extent to
which American guns might be arming Mexico's cartels.
The ATF uses the results of traced weapons, which reveal an original seller, as
starting points for investigations into �straw buyers,� who legally qualify to
purchase
firearms but then turn them over to smugglers who don�t.
...
edi...@netpath.net
Nation states - or are they only from states where "Republican" is
about what "communist" means in the South? Prediction: if we have
elections next year - as if not in widespread revolt first - none of
those eight will be reelected if they are up for reelection.
http://www.Internet-Gun-Show.com - your source for hard-to-find stuff!
kT
Yeah, so fucking what?!?!?!?
SaPeIsMa
"kT" <bo...@ry.layer> wrote in message
news:7apm02F...@mid.individual.net...
> RichTravsky wrote:
>>
>>
>> http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/mexico/090424/record-number-guns-mexico-traced-the-us
>> In 2008, a year during which more than 7,000 Mexicans were killed in drug
>> violence, a record number of weapons confiscated in Mexico were traced to
>> U.S. retailers,
>
> Yeah, so fucking what?!?!?!?
Well, he's ignoring a few details
1) The reason so many Mexicans are being killed are numerous. But the
principal one is that Mexican gun-control laws, serve to disarm the
law-abiding and leave the criminals well-armed.
2) The great majority of the weapons seized in Mexico are military-grade
weapons, not available for retail sale in the US
Also those weapons can be obtained far more cheaply from other
sources than the legal retail market in the US.
But let's not let ignorati such as travsky let facts get in the way of his
ignorance.
RichTravsky
Why are you on the side of the drug lords?
RichTravsky
>
> "kT" <bo...@ry.layer> wrote in message
> news:7apm02F...@mid.individual.net...
> > RichTravsky wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/mexico/090424/record-number-guns-mexico-traced-the-us
> >> In 2008, a year during which more than 7,000 Mexicans were killed in drug
> >> violence, a record number of weapons confiscated in Mexico were traced to
> >> U.S. retailers,
> >
> > Yeah, so fucking what?!?!?!?
>
> Well, he's ignoring a few details
> 1) The reason so many Mexicans are being killed are numerous. But the
> principal one is that Mexican gun-control laws, serve to disarm the
> law-abiding and leave the criminals well-armed.
With American guns. Cut off the flow. You may sit down now.
> 2) The great majority of the weapons seized in Mexico are military-grade
> weapons, not available for retail sale in the US
> Also those weapons can be obtained far more cheaply from other
> sources than the legal retail market in the US.
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/mexico/090424/record-number-guns-mexico-traced-the-us
In 2008, a year during which more than 7,000 Mexicans were killed in drug violence,
a record number of weapons confiscated in Mexico were traced to U.S. retailers,
according to the latest available government data obtained by GlobalPost.
The number of traced firearms that originated in the U.S. � 12,073 � is by far the
most ever recorded in one year since the U.S. Bureau of Tobacco, Alcohol, Firearms
and Explosives began tracing Mexico's seized guns in 2005.
The 2008 figure is more than the last three years combined, and it brings the total
number of guns confiscated in Mexico and traced to American sources to 22,848.
...
General Malaise
Why are you trading in DIS-information!
http://www.hallillywhite.blogspot.com/
Figures don�t lie, but liars figure. So do people who figure with good
intentions but inadequate skill or thought.
It was all over the news. �U.S. gun stores and gun shows are the source
of more than 90 percent of the weapons being used by Mexico's ruthless
drug cartels, according to U.S. and Mexican law enforcement officials.�
However the story had a bit of a problem � it was dead wrong, the result
of misuse of data.
William La Jeunesse and Maxim Lott of Fox News published the facts. That
number comes from a limited and abnormal sample of guns recovered by
Mexican authorities. During 2007 and 2008 Mexico recovered 29,000 guns
at crime scenes. They submitted 11,000 of those to the US for tracing.
Only 6,000 could actually be traced with 90% of those 6,000 coming from
the US. Over 23,000 of the guns either could not be traced or weren�t
even submitted because there was no reason to do so. Many obviously came
from Russia, South America, China etc
This is one example of the errors caused by poor understanding of what
data means. The claim that 90% of those guns came from the US fooled a
lot of people who should have known better, even the US secretary of
state. Some may have been deliberately trying to mislead us, but most
were probably just victims of the normal human failure to understand
statistics. We tend to think that what is easily visible is
representative of the whole.
Worse yet, we often think that anything precisely calculated must be
correct. The claim that 90% of Mexican criminal weapons came from the
U.S. was very precise � and very wrong. That number comes from equations
that somebody manipulated to perfection, based on poor input. The source
seems to have forgotten that applied mathematics is much more than the
manipulation of equations, it requires understanding of the �physics�
behind those equations and of the information fed to the equations. Even
if the equations are perfect, they will give the wrong answer if the
numbers used in the calculation are bad, Garbage In Garbage Out (GIGO).
General Malaise
> SaPeIsMa wrote:
>> "kT" <bo...@ry.layer> wrote in message
>> news:7apm02F...@mid.individual.net...
>>> RichTravsky wrote:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/mexico/090424/record-number-guns-mexico-traced-the-us
>>>> In 2008, a year during which more than 7,000 Mexicans were killed in drug
>>>> violence, a record number of weapons confiscated in Mexico were traced to
>>>> U.S. retailers,
>>> Yeah, so fucking what?!?!?!?
>> Well, he's ignoring a few details
>> 1) The reason so many Mexicans are being killed are numerous. But the
>> principal one is that Mexican gun-control laws, serve to disarm the
>> law-abiding and leave the criminals well-armed.
>
> With American guns. Cut off the flow. You may sit down now.
You may return to your recto-cranial inversion, shit-for-brains!
jf...@ix.netcom.com
Why do you want to disarm law abiding Americans for a Mexican
problem?
RichTravsky
How are they law abiding when they're buying for Mexican drug lords?
RichTravsky
Not really. There are large numbers of weapons getting there from America and your
own
link backs it up.
> http://www.hallillywhite.blogspot.com/
>
> Figures don�t lie, but liars figure. So do people who figure with good
> intentions but inadequate skill or thought.
>
> It was all over the news. �U.S. gun stores and gun shows are the source
> of more than 90 percent of the weapons being used by Mexico's ruthless
> drug cartels, according to U.S. and Mexican law enforcement officials.�
> However the story had a bit of a problem � it was dead wrong, the result
> of misuse of data.
>
> William La Jeunesse and Maxim Lott of Fox News published the facts. That
> number comes from a limited and abnormal sample of guns recovered by
> Mexican authorities. During 2007 and 2008 Mexico recovered 29,000 guns
> at crime scenes. They submitted 11,000 of those to the US for tracing.
> Only 6,000 could actually be traced with 90% of those 6,000 coming from
> the US. Over 23,000 of the guns either could not be traced or weren�t
RichTravsky
>
> RichTravsky wrote:
> > SaPeIsMa wrote:
> >> "kT" <bo...@ry.layer> wrote in message
> >> news:7apm02F...@mid.individual.net...
> >>> RichTravsky wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/mexico/090424/record-number-guns-mexico-traced-the-us
> >>>> In 2008, a year during which more than 7,000 Mexicans were killed in drug
> >>>> violence, a record number of weapons confiscated in Mexico were traced to
> >>>> U.S. retailers,
> >>> Yeah, so fucking what?!?!?!?
> >> Well, he's ignoring a few details
> >> 1) The reason so many Mexicans are being killed are numerous. But the
> >> principal one is that Mexican gun-control laws, serve to disarm the
> >> law-abiding and leave the criminals well-armed.
> >
> > With American guns. Cut off the flow. You may sit down now.
>
> You may return to your recto-cranial inversion, shit-for-brains!
>
> http://www.hallillywhite.blogspot.com/
>
> intentions but inadequate skill or thought.
>
> of more than 90 percent of the weapons being used by Mexico's ruthless
> However the story had a bit of a problem � it was dead wrong, the result
> of misuse of data.
>
> William La Jeunesse and Maxim Lott of Fox News published the facts. That
> number comes from a limited and abnormal sample of guns recovered by
> Mexican authorities. During 2007 and 2008 Mexico recovered 29,000 guns
> at crime scenes. They submitted 11,000 of those to the US for tracing.
> Only 6,000 could actually be traced with 90% of those 6,000 coming from
> even submitted because there was no reason to do so. Many obviously came
> from Russia, South America, China etc
You admit American guns are reaching Mexican drug lords. Thanks.
General Malaise
General Malaise
General Malaise
RD (The Sandman)
news:4A503863...@hotmMOVEail.com:
>> >> > ns-mexico-traced-the-us In 2008, a year during which more than
>> >> > 7,000 Mexicans were killed in drug violence, a record number of
>> >> > weapons confiscated in Mexico were traced to U.S. retailers,
>> >>
>> >> Yeah, so fucking what?!?!?!?
>> >
>> >Why are you on the side of the drug lords?
>>
>> Why do you want to disarm law abiding Americans for a Mexican
>> problem?
>
> How are they law abiding when they're buying for Mexican drug lords?
>
Unfortunately those who did that aren't the ones the Democrats are after.
They are after all gun owners not just the ones who did the crime.
--
Sleep well, tonight........
RD (The Sandman)
" All experience is great provided you live through it.
If it kills you, you have gone too far."
Painter Alice Neel, in the New Yorker.
RD (The Sandman)
news:4A5038E1...@hotmMOVEail.com:
> General Malaise wrote:
>>
>> RichTravsky wrote:
>> > SaPeIsMa wrote:
>> >> "kT" <bo...@ry.layer> wrote in message
>> >> news:7apm02F...@mid.individual.net...
>> >>> RichTravsky wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/mexico/090424/record-number-gu
>> >>>> ns-mexico-traced-the-us In 2008, a year during which more than
Yep, some of them are even coming from straw sales. Some are even coming
from our own government, but most of them are coming from somewhere else.
Sid9
"RD (The Sandman)" <rdsandman(spamlock)@comcast.net> wrote
in message news:Xns9C3F6E3A1...@216.196.97.130...
You seem to know where the "don�t" come from
Where do they come from?
Sid9
"GunOwner" <GunOwnerTil...@homeontherange.com> wrote
in message
news:dbb255p2tbuh0v5jd...@4ax.com...
> manufacturers
> themselves via a lord of war dealer go between much like
> the one
> Nick Gage played in that movie. The gun grabbers know this
> fully
> well yet ignore it and try to blame legitimate American
> gun owners
> as another means to disarm and enslave us.
Do you mean American gun manufacturers?
I've read the serial numbers are traceable to American gun
dealers.
Larry Hewitt
Both.
The number of guns that "fall off the back of the truck" is frightening.
Larry
Gray Ghost
8zXRV...@comporium.net:
You have specific data to back this up?
--
Always remember:
Bull Connor was a Democrat!
RD (The Sandman)
september.org:
Various places in Central America, Northwestern Africa and the Middle
East.
RD (The Sandman)
news:h2rfiu$sqt$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> "GunOwner" <GunOwnerTil...@homeontherange.com> wrote
> in message
> news:dbb255p2tbuh0v5jd...@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 5 Jul 2009 15:11:30 -0400, "Sid9"
>> <si...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"RD (The Sandman)" <rdsandman(spamlock)@comcast.net> wrote
>>>in message news:Xns9C3F6E3A1...@216.196.97.130...
>>>> RichTravsky <traR...@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in
>>>> news:4A5038E1...@hotmMOVEail.com:
>>>>
>>>>> General Malaise wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> RichTravsky wrote:
>>>>>> > SaPeIsMa wrote:
>>>>>> >> "kT" <bo...@ry.layer> wrote in message
>>>>>> >> news:7apm02F...@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>> >>> RichTravsky wrote:
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/mexico/090424/record-numbe
>>>>>> >>>> r-gu ns-mexico-traced-the-us In 2008, a year during
You really should read more. Out of the guns *that Mexico asked us to
trace, most were from American gun dealers*. The problem is that Mexico
did not ask us to trace guns that weren't serial numbered or of a type
sold in the US. That means there were a lot guns in Mexico that did not
come from the US. Here are two cites that have numbers. You may take of
them what you will:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2009/04/02/myth-percent-guns-
mexico-fraction-number-claimed/
If you don't like or trust Fox, here is another source with numbers:
http://www.factcheck.org/politics/counting_mexicos_guns.html
Hope this helps.
RichTravsky
>
> RichTravsky should be dipped in hot oil.
WAAAH WAAAH
RichTravsky
> RichTravsky <traR...@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in
Oh?
RichTravsky
Our government is supplying the drug lords? Cite?
RD (The Sandman)
news:4A557E58...@hotmMOVEail.com:
>> >> >> > -gu ns-mexico-traced-the-us In 2008, a year during which more
>> >> >> > than 7,000 Mexicans were killed in drug violence, a record
>> >> >> > number of weapons confiscated in Mexico were traced to U.S.
>> >> >> > retailers,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Yeah, so fucking what?!?!?!?
>> >> >
>> >> >Why are you on the side of the drug lords?
>> >>
>> >> Why do you want to disarm law abiding Americans for a Mexican
>> >> problem?
>> >
>> > How are they law abiding when they're buying for Mexican drug
>> > lords?
>>
>> Unfortunately those who did that aren't the ones the Democrats are
>> after.
>
> Oh?
They want to tighten up laws like the AWB, etc.. which have nothing to do
with problem of straw sales (which are already illegal) or gun running.
>> They are after all gun owners not just the ones who did the crime.
If they know which serial number guns came from which gun store selling
illegally, where are the indictments? Even the one they took to court,
they had so little evidence, the charges were dropped.
RD (The Sandman)
news:4A557E79...@hotmMOVEail.com:
> "RD (The Sandman)" wrote:
>>
>> RichTravsky <traR...@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in
>> news:4A5038E1...@hotmMOVEail.com:
>>
>> > General Malaise wrote:
>> >>
>> >> RichTravsky wrote:
>> >> > SaPeIsMa wrote:
>> >> >> "kT" <bo...@ry.layer> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:7apm02F...@mid.individual.net...
>> >> >>> RichTravsky wrote:
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/mexico/090424/record-number
>> >> >>>> -gu ns-mexico-traced-the-us In 2008, a year during which more
Not what I said. Learn to read.
> Cite?
Our government sold guns to the Mexican army. Over 150,000 members of
that army have since gone AWOL....usually taking their guns with them.
Remember that *all* full auto weaponry had to have come from either our
government or some source other than our gun shops and straw buyers.
Most full auto weaponry probably came from South America, Central
America, NW Africa or the Middle East.
RichTravsky
So it's a separate issue.
> >> They are after all gun owners not just the ones who did the crime.
>
> If they know which serial number guns came from which gun store selling
> illegally, where are the indictments? Even the one they took to court,
> they had so little evidence, the charges were dropped.
Loose gun laws in this country.
RT
RichTravsky
> RichTravsky <traR...@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in
> > "RD (The Sandman)" wrote:
> >> RichTravsky <traR...@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in
> >> >> RichTravsky wrote:
> >> >> > SaPeIsMa wrote:
> >> >> >> "kT" <bo...@ry.layer> wrote in message
Yep ... Some are even coming from our own government
> > Cite?
>
> Our government sold guns to the Mexican army. Over 150,000 members of
> that army have since gone AWOL....usually taking their guns with them.
> Remember that *all* full auto weaponry had to have come from either our
> government or some source other than our gun shops and straw buyers.
> Most full auto weaponry probably came from South America, Central
> America, NW Africa or the Middle East.
Thanks for the admission.
RT
RD (The Sandman)
news:4A595036...@hotmMOVEail.com:
>> >> >> >> > ber -gu ns-mexico-traced-the-us In 2008, a year during
>> >> >> >> > which more than 7,000 Mexicans were killed in drug
>> >> >> >> > violence, a record number of weapons confiscated in Mexico
>> >> >> >> > were traced to U.S. retailers,
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Yeah, so fucking what?!?!?!?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Why are you on the side of the drug lords?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Why do you want to disarm law abiding Americans for a
>> >> >> Mexican
>> >> >> problem?
>> >> >
>> >> > How are they law abiding when they're buying for Mexican drug
>> >> > lords?
>> >>
>> >> Unfortunately those who did that aren't the ones the Democrats are
>> >> after.
>> >
>> > Oh?
>>
>> They want to tighten up laws like the AWB, etc.. which have nothing
>> to do with problem of straw sales (which are already illegal) or gun
>> running.
>
> So it's a separate issue.
>
>> >> They are after all gun owners not just the ones who did the crime.
>>
>> If they know which serial number guns came from which gun store
>> selling illegally, where are the indictments? Even the one they took
>> to court, they had so little evidence, the charges were dropped.
>
> Loose gun laws in this country.
Just what is legal today that you wish were illegal tomorrow in regard to
guns? Please be specific and feel free to take all the screens you need.
--
Sleep well, tonight........
RD (The Sandman)
The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you
run out of other people's money.
Margaret Thatcher - February 5, 1976
RD (The Sandman)
news:4A5950CD...@hotmMOVEail.com:
> "RD (The Sandman)" wrote:
>> RichTravsky <traR...@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in
>> > "RD (The Sandman)" wrote:
>> >> RichTravsky <traR...@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in
>> >> > General Malaise wrote:
>> >> >> RichTravsky wrote:
>> >> >> > SaPeIsMa wrote:
>> >> >> >> "kT" <bo...@ry.layer> wrote in message
>> >> >> >>> RichTravsky wrote:
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>> http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/mexico/090424/record-num
>> >> >> >>>> ber -gu ns-mexico-traced-the-us In 2008, a year during
Which doesn't say that the government is supplying them. It simply says
that some of those came from our government (via one means or another).
Sorry to have troubled you with such a complex thought.
>> > Cite?
>>
>> Our government sold guns to the Mexican army. Over 150,000 members
>> of that army have since gone AWOL....usually taking their guns with
>> them. Remember that *all* full auto weaponry had to have come from
>> either our government or some source other than our gun shops and
>> straw buyers. Most full auto weaponry probably came from South
>> America, Central America, NW Africa or the Middle East.
>
> Thanks for the admission.
Of what?
--
Sleep well, tonight........
RD (The Sandman)
RichTravsky
How about anything - like straw sales - that lets Mexican drug lords get armed
by AMericans...
RichTravsky
YOU said that. That's why I indented.
> >> > Cite?
> >>
> >> Our government sold guns to the Mexican army. Over 150,000 members
> >> of that army have since gone AWOL....usually taking their guns with
> >> them. Remember that *all* full auto weaponry had to have come from
> >> either our government or some source other than our gun shops and
> >> straw buyers. Most full auto weaponry probably came from South
> >> America, Central America, NW Africa or the Middle East.
> >
> > Thanks for the admission.
>
> Of what?
Yep ... Some are even coming from our own government
Devonian
How about Mexicans will buy guns ANY_where, and they don't need US!
RD (The Sandman)
news:4A5EA054...@hotmMOVEail.com:
>> >> >> >> >> > num ber -gu ns-mexico-traced-the-us In 2008, a year
No problem. Straw sales are already illegal.
Next.
RD (The Sandman)
news:4A5EA07E...@hotmMOVEail.com:
> "RD (The Sandman)" wrote:
>>
>> RichTravsky <traR...@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in
>> news:4A5950CD...@hotmMOVEail.com:
>>
>> > "RD (The Sandman)" wrote:
>> >> RichTravsky <traR...@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in
>> >> > "RD (The Sandman)" wrote:
>> >> >> RichTravsky <traR...@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in
>> >> >> > General Malaise wrote:
>> >> >> >> RichTravsky wrote:
>> >> >> >> > SaPeIsMa wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> "kT" <bo...@ry.layer> wrote in message
>> >> >> >> >>> RichTravsky wrote:
>> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >>>> http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/mexico/090424/record-
>> >> >> >> >>>> num ber -gu ns-mexico-traced-the-us In 2008, a year
Yes, I know. You didn't understand it. Apparently it was too complex a
thought for you. That's why I tried to explain it again.
>> >> > Cite?
>> >>
>> >> Our government sold guns to the Mexican army. Over 150,000
>> >> members of that army have since gone AWOL....usually taking their
>> >> guns with them. Remember that *all* full auto weaponry had to have
>> >> come from either our government or some source other than our gun
>> >> shops and straw buyers. Most full auto weaponry probably came from
>> >> South America, Central America, NW Africa or the Middle East.
>> >
>> > Thanks for the admission.
>>
>> Of what?
>
> Yep ... Some are even coming from our own government
Never denied it or said differently. What's your point? Are you
starting to realize what I actually said?
RichTravsky
How about why should we make it easy for them to be armed by us?
RT
RichTravsky
Without a cite to back up your assertion. Again.
> >> >> > Cite?
> >> >>
> >> >> Our government sold guns to the Mexican army. Over 150,000
> >> >> members of that army have since gone AWOL....usually taking their
> >> >> guns with them. Remember that *all* full auto weaponry had to have
> >> >> come from either our government or some source other than our gun
> >> >> shops and straw buyers. Most full auto weaponry probably came from
> >> >> South America, Central America, NW Africa or the Middle East.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks for the admission.
> >>
> >> Of what?
> >
> > Yep ... Some are even coming from our own government
>
> Never denied it or said differently. What's your point? Are you
> starting to realize what I actually said?
Are you ever going to supply a cite that the US government is arming
Mexican druglords?
RT
RichTravsky
Then you have no objection to tightening up those laws since they are
too loose...
> Next.
RD (The Sandman)
news:4A62A813...@hotmMOVEail.com:
>> >>>>>>>>>>> m ber -gu ns-mexico-traced-the-us In 2008, a year during
Apparently we aren't doing that to anywhere near the rate claimed by
Hillary or Obama.
RD (The Sandman)
news:4A62A865...@hotmMOVEail.com:
> "RD (The Sandman)" wrote:
>> RichTravsky <traR...@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in
>> > "RD (The Sandman)" wrote:
>> >> RichTravsky <traR...@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in
>> >> > "RD (The Sandman)" wrote:
>> >> >> RichTravsky <traR...@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in
>> >> >> > "RD (The Sandman)" wrote:
>> >> >> >> RichTravsky <traR...@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in
>> >> >> >> > General Malaise wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> RichTravsky wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> > SaPeIsMa wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> "kT" <bo...@ry.layer> wrote in message
>> >> >> >> >> >>> RichTravsky wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>> http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/mexico/090424/reco
>> >> >> >> >> >>>> rd- num ber -gu ns-mexico-traced-the-us In 2008, a
If you don't understand the difference between claiming the government is
supplying them with arms or the claim that the some of those arms came
from the US government, why waste my time? You won't understand it
anyway.
>> >> >> > Cite?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Our government sold guns to the Mexican army. Over 150,000
>> >> >> members of that army have since gone AWOL....usually taking
>> >> >> their guns with them. Remember that *all* full auto weaponry
>> >> >> had to have come from either our government or some source
>> >> >> other than our gun shops and straw buyers. Most full auto
>> >> >> weaponry probably came from South America, Central America, NW
>> >> >> Africa or the Middle East.
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks for the admission.
>> >>
>> >> Of what?
>> >
>> > Yep ... Some are even coming from our own government
>>
>> Never denied it or said differently. What's your point? Are you
>> starting to realize what I actually said?
>
> Are you ever going to supply a cite that the US government is arming
> Mexican druglords?
Since that wasn't my claim, you illiterate baboon, why should I? See
above and see if there is any possibility at all that you can figure out
what was actually said.
RD (The Sandman)
news:4A62AB00...@hotmMOVEail.com:
>> >> >> >> >> >> > rd- num ber -gu ns-mexico-traced-the-us In 2008, a
10 years in federal prison is too loose? What sentence would you
suggest? How would you suggest tightening up those laws on straw sales?
Do you even understand the terms and what those laws are?
RichTravsky
Apparently it's ok with you all the same.
RichTravsky
You flat out assert it.
> >> >> >> > Cite?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Our government sold guns to the Mexican army. Over 150,000
> >> >> >> members of that army have since gone AWOL....usually taking
> >> >> >> their guns with them. Remember that *all* full auto weaponry
> >> >> >> had to have come from either our government or some source
> >> >> >> other than our gun shops and straw buyers. Most full auto
> >> >> >> weaponry probably came from South America, Central America, NW
> >> >> >> Africa or the Middle East.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Thanks for the admission.
> >> >>
> >> >> Of what?
> >> >
> >> > Yep ... Some are even coming from our own government
> >>
> >> Never denied it or said differently. What's your point? Are you
> >> starting to realize what I actually said?
> >
> > Are you ever going to supply a cite that the US government is arming
> > Mexican druglords?
>
> Since that wasn't my claim, you illiterate baboon, why should I? See
Some are even coming from our own government
> above and see if there is any possibility at all that you can figure out
> what was actually said.
RichTravsky
to let it happen.
Not even a good dodge on your part.
RT
RD (The Sandman)
news:4A67F630...@hotmMOVEail.com:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> -nu m ber -gu ns-mexico-traced-the-us In 2008, a year
Apparently you like to make incorrect assumptions. Why do you think you
need a porkchop on a string around your neck to get the dog to play with
you?
--
Sleep well tonight,
RD (The Sandman)
"No matter which side of an argument you are on,
you will always find some people on your side
that you wish were on the other side."
Musician Jascha Heifetz
RD (The Sandman)
news:4A67F69B...@hotmMOVEail.com:
> "RD (The Sandman)" wrote:
>> RichTravsky <traR...@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in
>> > "RD (The Sandman)" wrote:
>> >> RichTravsky <traR...@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in
>> >> > "RD (The Sandman)" wrote:
>> >> >> RichTravsky <traR...@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in
>> >> >> > "RD (The Sandman)" wrote:
>> >> >> >> RichTravsky <traR...@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in
>> >> >> >> > "RD (The Sandman)" wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> RichTravsky <traR...@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in
>> >> >> >> >> > General Malaise wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> RichTravsky wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> > SaPeIsMa wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> "kT" <bo...@ry.layer> wrote in message
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> RichTravsky wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/mexico/090424/r
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> eco rd- num ber -gu ns-mexico-traced-the-us In
As noted......you don't understand the difference in those two
statements. Why should anyone waste time debating with you?
>> >> >> >> > Cite?
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Our government sold guns to the Mexican army. Over 150,000
>> >> >> >> members of that army have since gone AWOL....usually taking
>> >> >> >> their guns with them. Remember that *all* full auto weaponry
>> >> >> >> had to have come from either our government or some source
>> >> >> >> other than our gun shops and straw buyers. Most full auto
>> >> >> >> weaponry probably came from South America, Central America,
>> >> >> >> NW Africa or the Middle East.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Thanks for the admission.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Of what?
>> >> >
>> >> > Yep ... Some are even coming from our own government
>> >>
>> >> Never denied it or said differently. What's your point? Are you
>> >> starting to realize what I actually said?
>> >
>> > Are you ever going to supply a cite that the US government is
>> > arming Mexican druglords?
>>
>> Since that wasn't my claim, you illiterate baboon, why should I? See
>
> Some are even coming from our own government
>
>> above and see if there is any possibility at all that you can figure
>> out what was actually said.
>
--
RD (The Sandman)
news:4A67F6D4...@hotmMOVEail.com:
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > eco rd- num ber -gu ns-mexico-traced-the-us In
You dumb fuck. Murder is against the law. It still happens. Do you
think that it is the law that lets it happen?
Shheeeeeeeshhhh.....
> Not even a good dodge on your part.
>
> RT
>
--
RichTravsky
Your words:
Some are even coming from our own government
Rather clear in meaning, eh what?
RichTravsky
This is YOUR statement - are you now backing away from it?
RichTravsky
You dumb fuck. Gun sales could be shut down over night. Murder can't.
RD (The Sandman)
news:4A6BEA56...@hotmMOVEail.com:
>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> ord -nu m ber -gu ns-mexico-traced-the-us In 2008,
Apparently not when you can't tell the difference between that and
stating that the government is arming the drug lords. It was explained
to you but you still didn't understand it and you ain't worth wasting my
time on.
>> need a porkchop on a string around your neck to get the dog to play
>> with you?
>
--
RD (The Sandman)
news:4A6BEB91...@hotmMOVEail.com:
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > 4/r eco rd- num ber -gu
You think you can stop illegal sales overnight? Go for it, you'll be a
hero.
RichTravsky
Apparently you're running from your own claim...
Yep, some of them are even coming from straw sales. Some
are even coming from our own government, but most of them
are coming from somewhere else.
This is you weaseling your way out:
RichTravsky
No *straw* sales.
RD (The Sandman)
news:4A711A73...@hotmMOVEail.com:
>> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> rec ord -nu m ber -gu ns-mexico-traced-the-us In
Which is true.
It
> simply says that some of those came from our government (via one
> means or another).
Which is true.
Sorry to have troubled you with such a complex
> thought.
Which is true. And you keep proving me right. ;)
RD (The Sandman)
news:4A711C02...@hotmMOVEail.com:
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > 042 4/r eco rd- num ber -gu
Straw sales are illegal sales, mon ami. Do you think you can stop them
overnight?
RichTravsky
Weaseling.
> Sorry to have troubled you with such a complex
> > thought.
>
> Which is true. And you keep proving me right. ;)
Some are even coming from our own government
Nothing complex about that. Your weaseling is certainly complex. :-D
RichTravsky
Any checks at gun shows? Home sales? Mon ami?
RD (The Sandman)
news:4A75177F...@hotmMOVEail.com:
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> 24/ rec ord -nu m ber -gu
Yep, We supplied much of the Mexican army......150,000 of whom have
deserted most of them taking their arms with them. So it was not an
intentional supply of the drug lords and criminals on the part of the US.
Are you starting to get it now? Do you think ...... never mind...
>> It
>> > simply says that some of those came from our government (via one
>> > means or another).
>>
>> Which is true.
>
> Weaseling.
Nope, not at all.
>> Sorry to have troubled you with such a complex
>> > thought.
>>
>> Which is true. And you keep proving me right. ;)
>
> Some are even coming from our own government
Yep. Too bad you don't have enough working neurons to understand such a
complex thought.
> Nothing complex about that.
Bingo.. Perhaps your mother can explain it to you.
RD (The Sandman)
news:4A751E80...@hotmMOVEail.com:
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > /09 042 4/r eco rd- num ber -gu
Yep. All dealers on guns new or used and even by private individuals in
16 states. I know that will make your brain explode as, for you, it is a
complex thought.
> Home sales? Mon ami?
If it is a dealer, yes, just like in his store front. If it is a private
individual in those same 16 states, yes.
RichTravsky
That you're weaseling? Yup. Your statement had no such ... conditions...
> >> It
> >> > simply says that some of those came from our government (via one
> >> > means or another).
> >>
> >> Which is true.
> >
> > Weaseling.
>
> Nope, not at all.
See above.
> >> Sorry to have troubled you with such a complex
> >> > thought.
> >>
> >> Which is true. And you keep proving me right. ;)
> >
> > Some are even coming from our own government
>
> Yep. Too bad you don't have enough working neurons to understand such a
> complex thought.
He says, after adding a weasel out about the Mexican army...
> > Nothing complex about that.
>
> Bingo.. Perhaps your mother can explain it to you.
Bingo. First you call it complex, now you don't.
RichTravsky
Wow. Only 16 states. What about the other *34*??????
> > Home sales? Mon ami?
>
> If it is a dealer, yes, just like in his store front. If it is a private
Riiight. Checks at your house...
> individual in those same 16 states, yes.
Whopping big loophole. Yawn.