NRA Youth Art Contest
Ayla
contest can be held championing the beauty of God's creatures, and then on the
next page talk about how to shoot them. I can't make that work in my mind.
Hunters, please tell me how you make it work in yours. This is not meant to be
provocative, I would really like to hear your rationale.
http://www.nrahq.org/youth/wildlife.shtml
Ayla
Allen James
<ayla...@aol.comempower> wrote:
Do you eat meat?
Do you eat and/or use any animal products for anything?
Doug Smith
>
> This is a serious question. Can someone please explain to me how an art
> contest can be held championing the beauty of God's creatures, and then on the
> next page talk about how to shoot them. I can't make that work in my mind.
> Hunters, please tell me how you make it work in yours. This is not meant to be
> provocative, I would really like to hear your rationale.
>
> http://www.nrahq.org/youth/wildlife.shtml
>
> Ayla
--
Ayla, humans have been drawing pictures of their prey
for tens of thousands of years. Man's earliest art
drew on prey animals for subjects. I don't find it the
least bit unnatural. Why do you?
"I honestly think - and I am not an expert on the amendments -
I think the only people in this nation who should be allowed to
own guns are police officers. I don't care if you want to hunt,
I don't care if you think it's your right. I say 'sorry'. It is
1999, we have had enough as a nation. You are not allowed to own
a gun and if you do own a gun, I think you should go to prison."
April 21, 1999
Rosie O'Donnell
Andrew Colglazier
ayla...@aol.comempower (Ayla) writes:
>
>This is a serious question. Can someone please explain to me how an art
>contest can be held championing the beauty of God's creatures, and then on
>the
>next page talk about how to shoot them. I can't make that work in my mind.
>Hunters, please tell me how you make it work in yours. This is not meant to
>be
>provocative, I would really like to hear your rationale.
>
>http://www.nrahq.org/youth/wildlife.shtml
>
>Ayla
>
It's pretty simple, Ayla; first, divest yourself of the prejudice that hunters
kill animals because they hate them, or out of some bloodthirsty motivation.
I hunt because I like being outdoors, I like the chase, I like the skills
inherent to hunting, I like being in the presence of wildlife, I like being a
predator, and I like to eat what I kill. It tastes good. I appreciate the
gutty reality that hunting teaches the hunter. You learn that life ain't a
bambi cartoon, and death is something to be respected.
I also admire the fauna I see during the hunt, or any time, for that matter. I
admire the squirrel for its quickness and savvy; the rabbit for its skill at
hiding itself; the pheasant for its explosive flight or canny, sneaky ways, and
its plumage; the dove for its aerobatics, the duck for the sound it makes as it
comes in over my head from behind, and its beautiful colors; the deer for its
leaps and speed, and its silence. The coyote for its wiliness, and the yellow
of its eyes.
Andrew "FF"
Freedom Fetishist and
Plain 'Ol Citizen
arriereban
you can have the real thing in your living room?
In article <20000622071324...@ng-cn1.aol.com>,
ayla...@aol.comempower (Ayla) wrote:
> This is a serious question. Can someone please explain to me how an
art
> contest can be held championing the beauty of God's creatures, and
then on the
> next page talk about how to shoot them. I can't make that work in my
mind.
> Hunters, please tell me how you make it work in yours. This is not
meant to be
> provocative, I would really like to hear your rationale.
>
> http://www.nrahq.org/youth/wildlife.shtml
>
> Ayla
>
--
Patrick Henry "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty.
Suspect every one who approaches that jewel.
Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force.
Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined....
O sir, we should have fine times, indeed, if to punish tyrants,
it were only sufficient to assemble the people!"
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Georgia Cracker
legged varmits.
arriereban <arrie...@law.com> wrote in message
news:8ith6j$c3i$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Mark LaHaye
>This is a serious question. Can someone please explain to me how an art
>contest can be held championing the beauty of God's creatures, and then on the
>next page talk about how to shoot them. I can't make that work in my mind.
>Hunters, please tell me how you make it work in yours. This is not meant to be
>provocative, I would really like to hear your rationale.
>
... Ayla said after eating big fat juicy steak.
Well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some people look at a deer
and see a beautiful and majestic animal. Other people see a meal. Some
see both.
Ayla apparently thinks it is far worse for a person to shoot an animal
for food, no matter how subjectively beautiful it may be, than it is
to go to the supermarket and buy a steak, for example. There is really
no difference between these two acts. Either way, an animal dies.
Ayla subsidizes the killing of God's creatures every time she goes to
the supermarket -- something she apparently does not realize. At least
the hunter is honest with himself. He understands that he is killing
and, unlike Ayla, cannot fool himself into thinking otherwise.
The way I see it, an animal dies every time I eat a meal that includes
meat. As a hunter, what difference does it make if I buy meat from the
supermarket or if I go out into the woods to get it? As long as I
follow the laws and make a best effort to prevent suffering then what
I am doing is no different from what the local butcher does.
Every time Ayla buys a steak or a roast or a ham an animal dies. Yet
she sees herself as blameless for those dead animals. But let some guy
go out and shoot a deer and *she* questions *his* motivation.
Wake up Ayla. It's a hard ball world. People have to eat and animals
have to die. You can challenge the morality of hunting only if you are
also willing to challenge the morality of raising cattle, hogs,
chickens, etc. for slaughter. Once you get into that, you are trying
to dictate to people what they can and cannot eat.
Craig
Ayla <ayla...@aol.comempower> wrote in message
news:20000622071324...@ng-cn1.aol.com...
> This is a serious question. Can someone please explain to me how an art
> contest can be held championing the beauty of God's creatures, and then on
the
> next page talk about how to shoot them. I can't make that work in my
mind.
> Hunters, please tell me how you make it work in yours. This is not meant
to be
> provocative, I would really like to hear your rationale.
>
>
> Ayla
Why is it so difficult to understand? Hunters are the most proactive
enviromentalists in this country. We have a love of nature that extends
well beyond the simple harvesting of animals. A true hunter does not *kill*
indescrimately. A true hunter does not enjoy making an animal suffer either.
The joys of hunting are in the communion with nature and the taking of game
is just an extension of our natural instincts.
Vern Wanzong
meal where meat is served. Then you, yourself, understand.
You thanked God for the food He has provided you in the form of the animals
that died so that you could stuff your greasy fat liberal face in order for
you to have the sustanance you need in order that you can continue to wander
through life a clueless, myopic socialist.
V
Ayla
>> contest can be held championing the beauty of God's creatures, and then on
>the
>> next page talk about how to shoot them. I can't make that work in my mind.
>
>> Hunters, please tell me how you make it work in yours. This is not meant
>to
>> be
>> provocative, I would really like to hear your rationale.
>>
>> http://www.nrahq.org/youth/wildlife.shtml
>>
>> Ayla
>
>Do you eat meat?
>
>Do you eat and/or use any animal products for anything?
Yeah, but I don't see contests for pictures of cows and chickens.
Ayla
"Food is an important part of a balanced diet."
-- Fran Lebowitz
Ayla
>>
>> This is a serious question. Can someone please explain to me how an art
>> contest can be held championing the beauty of God's creatures, and then on
>the
>> next page talk about how to shoot them. I can't make that work in my mind.
>> Hunters, please tell me how you make it work in yours. This is not meant
>to be
>> provocative, I would really like to hear your rationale.
>>
>> http://www.nrahq.org/youth/wildlife.shtml
>>
>> Ayla
>Ayla, humans have been drawing pictures of their prey
>for tens of thousands of years. Man's earliest art
>drew on prey animals for subjects. I don't find it the
>least bit unnatural. Why do you?
>
>
That would be a good point, but it implies that today's hunting stems from a
lack of human evolution. Hunting 10,0000 years ago was for food and survival,
now it's primarily for sport, right?
Ayla
Ayla
>news:20000622071324...@ng-cn1.aol.com...
>> contest can be held championing the beauty of God's creatures, and then on
>the
>> next page talk about how to shoot them. I can't make that work in my
>mind.
>> Hunters, please tell me how you make it work in yours. This is not meant
>to be
>> provocative, I would really like to hear your rationale.
>>
>> http://www.nrahq.org/youth/wildlife.shtml
>>
>> Ayla
>From: "Craig" crai...@worldnet.att.net
>Why is it so difficult to understand? Hunters are the most proactive
>enviromentalists in this country. We have a love of nature that extends
>well beyond the simple harvesting of animals. A true hunter does not *kill*
>indescrimately. A true hunter does not enjoy making an animal suffer either.
>The joys of hunting are in the communion with nature and the taking of game
>is just an extension of our natural instincts.
I understand the love of the outdoors and I do give credit for the work hunters
do on conservation...I guess I just don't have that instinct to kill something
so beautiful. I'll probably never understand that, but I appreciate the
thoughtful answers (and ignored the crude ones).
Craig
Ayla <ayla...@aol.comempower> wrote in message
I can relate to your lack of understanding. There have been many times that
I have decided not to take a shot on an animal while hunting. Not because I
couldn't have taken it, but rather I appreciated the gift of life and beauty
I was beholding. At the same time I realize that animals are just that,
animals. They could care less about me or most of their kind. Many would
kill me sooner then look at me. I accept that as a natural part of
surrvival and have no illusions that these animals can understand my
thoughts. The truth is that hunting provides a better existance for the
animals that survive. This is a fundimental part of nature.
Gerald "Brick" Brickwood
> >Ayla wrote:
> >>
> >> This is a serious question. Can someone please explain to me how an
art
> >> contest can be held championing the beauty of God's creatures, and then
on
> >the
> >> next page talk about how to shoot them. I can't make that work in my
mind.
> >> Hunters, please tell me how you make it work in yours. This is not
meant
> >to be
> >> provocative, I would really like to hear your rationale.
> >>
> >> http://www.nrahq.org/youth/wildlife.shtml
> >>
> >> Ayla
>
> >Ayla, humans have been drawing pictures of their prey
> >for tens of thousands of years. Man's earliest art
> >drew on prey animals for subjects. I don't find it the
> >least bit unnatural. Why do you?
> >
> >
>
> That would be a good point, but it implies that today's hunting stems from
a
> lack of human evolution. Hunting 10,0000 years ago was for food and
survival,
> now it's primarily for sport, right?
>
> Ayla
Not right, my eyes are still in the front of my head, my teeth are still
designed to eat both meat and vegetables, and hunting of certain game
animals is still a group activity requiring communication, planning and
other skills that help shape society. In short I am still a predator.
Brick
betweentheeyes
analysis, the answer is NO, hunting is not for 'sport'.
I agree with your statement that hunting, at least in my case, is not for
survival.
pyotr filipivich
an0...@hotmail.com to write:
>On Thu, 22 Jun 2000 23:25:28 GMT, "Gerald \"Brick\" Brickwood"
><Gerald.B...@gte.net> wrote:
>
>>"Ayla" <ayla...@aol.comempower> wrote in message
>>news:20000622172705...@ng-fy1.aol.com...
>>> >Ayla wrote:
>>>
>>> That would be a good point, but it implies that today's hunting stems from a
>>> lack of human evolution. Hunting 10,0000 years ago was for food and survival,
>>> now it's primarily for sport, right?
>>>
>>> Ayla
>>
>>Not right, my eyes are still in the front of my head, my teeth are still
>>designed to eat both meat and vegetables, and hunting of certain game
>>animals is still a group activity requiring communication, planning and
>>other skills that help shape society. In short I am still a predator.
>>
>>Brick
>>
>I believe the term "Omnivore" applies here.
As I not too laughingly put it - human beings ate (and still do eat)
anything which didn't move fast enough. Those things which moved to fast
inspired us to invent the opposable thumb. Later we invented technology (like
farming and ranching) and now most of us "hunt" in the local super market.
Which isn't to say, some folks, even in the US, even in the "burbs", aren't
hunting (and fishing) to put food on the table, and save a few bucks in the
process.
pyotr filipivich
"If you hold out for everything you want, you will end up with
President Gore & Senator Hillary Clinton."
Michael Dix
>
> >Ayla wrote:
> >>
> >> This is a serious question. Can someone please explain to me how an art
> >> contest can be held championing the beauty of God's creatures, and then on
> >the
> >> next page talk about how to shoot them. I can't make that work in my mind.
> >> Hunters, please tell me how you make it work in yours. This is not meant
> >to be
> >> provocative, I would really like to hear your rationale.
> >>
> >> http://www.nrahq.org/youth/wildlife.shtml
> >>
> >> Ayla
> >From: Doug Smith dsm...@tacnet.missouri.org
>
> >Ayla, humans have been drawing pictures of their prey
> >for tens of thousands of years. Man's earliest art
> >drew on prey animals for subjects. I don't find it the
> >least bit unnatural. Why do you?
> >
> >
>
> lack of human evolution. Hunting 10,0000 years ago was for food and survival,
> now it's primarily for sport, right?
>
> Ayla
I'm surprised to hear someone who calls herself "Ayla" asking this
question. Hunting is what men do, when they're not sitting around the
kettle of pombe, sipping it through straws and telling bullshit stories,
planning the next hunt to bring an eland home to the tribe, while
the women are doing all the work. To be successful in the hunt,
the men must balance the conflicting forces of teamwork and
competitiveness.
Life was a lot simpler when we were all hunters and gatherers, but the
invention of beer led us into agriculture (to ensure a steady supply
of barley), thus to religion (when the crops failed), including
animal sacrifice (for a better harvest next year). Now we sit in
cubes all day, come home, and watch TV. To get outdoors we play golf.
Mike Dix
--
"Subtract twenty" from email address to reply
Kirk Dudley
Just for the record, human evolution started slowing down as soon as we
started living in communities, and working as teams. Once modern
medicine came around, anything that was vaguley resembling evolution
came to a screeching halt.
Sad fact is, this is as evolved as we are going to get. Its downhill
from here on out.
Ian Underwood
>This is a serious question. Can someone please explain to me how an art
>contest can be held championing the beauty of God's creatures, and then on the
>next page talk about how to shoot them. I can't make that work in my mind.
Maybe you should try reading some of Joseph Campbell's work on
mythology, e.g.:
<quote>
[Heinrich] Zimmer loved to recount an amusing animal fable from India.
It tells of a tigress, pregnant and starving, who comes upon a flock
of goats and pounces on them with such energy that she brings about
the birth of her little one and her own death.
The goats scatter, and when they come back to their grazing place,
they find this just-born tiger and its dead mother. Having strong
parental instincts, they adopt the tiger, and it grows up thinking its
a goat. It learns to bleat. It learns to eat grass. And since grass
doesn't nourish it very well, it grows up to be a pretty miserable
specimen of its species.
When the young tiger reaches adolescence, a large male tiger pounces
on the flock, and the goats scatter. But this little fellow is a
tiger, so he stands there. The big one looks at him in amazement and
says, "Are you living here with the goats?" "Maaaaaaa," says the
little tiger. Well, the old tiger is mortified, something like a
father who comes home and finds his sone with long hair. He swats him
back and forth a couple of times, and the little thing just responds
with these silly bleats and begins nibbling the grass in
embarrassment. So the big tiger brings him to a still pond.
Now, still water is a favorite Indian image to symbolize the idea of
yoga. The first aphorism of yoga is: "Yoga is the intentional
stopping of the spontaneous activity of the mind-stuff." Our minds,
which are in continual flux, are likened to the surface of a pond
that's blown by a wind. So the forms that we see, those of our own
lives and the world around us, are simply flashing images that come
and go in the field of time, but beneath all of them is the
substantial form of forms. Bring the pond to a standstill, have the
wind withdraw and the waters clear, and you'll see, in stasis, the
perfect image beneath all of these changing forms.
So this little fellow looks into the pond and sees his own face for
the first time. The big tiger puts his face over and says, "You see,
you've got a face like mine. You're not a goat. You're a tiger like
me. Be like me."
Now that's guru stuff: I'll give you my picture to wear, be like me.
It's the opposite to the individual way.
So the little one is getting the message; he's picked up and taken to
the tiger's den, where there are the remains of a recently slaughtered
gazelle. Taking a chunk of this bloody stuff, the big tiger says,
"Open your face." The little one backs away. "I'm a vegetarian."
"None of that nonsense," says the big fellow, and he shoves a piece of
meat down the little one's throat. He gags on it. The text says, "As
all do on true doctrine."
But gagging on the true doctrine, he's nevertheless getting it into
his blood, into his nerves; it's his proper food. It touches his
proper nature. Spontaneously, he gives a tiger stretch, the first
one. A little tiger roar comes out -- Tiger Roar 101. The big one
says, "There. Now you've got it. Now we go into the forest and eat
tiger food."
Vegetarianism
is the first turning away from life,
because life lives on lives.
Vegetarians are just eating
something that can't run away.
Now, of course, the moral is that we are all tigers living here as
goats. The right hand path, the sociological department, is
interesting in cultivating our goat-nature. Mythology, properly
understood as metaphor, will guide you to the recognition of your
tiger face. But then how are you going to live with these goats?
Well, Jesus had something to say about this problem. In Matthew 7 he
said, "Do not cast your pearls before swine, or they will trample them
under their feet and turn and tear you."
The function
of the orthodox community
is to torture the mystic to death:
his goal.
You wear the outer garment of the law, behave as everyone else and
wear the inner garment of the mystic way. Jesus also said that when
you pray, you should go into your own room and close the door. When
you go out, brush your hair. Don't let them know. Otherwise, you'll
be a kook, something phony.
So that has to do with not letting people know where you are. But
then comes the second problem: how do you live with these people? Do
you know the answer? You know that they are all tigers. And you live
with that aspect of their nature, and perhaps in your art you can let
them know that they are tigers.
And that's the revelation then. And so this brings us to the final
formula of the Bodhisattava way, the way of the one who is grounded in
eternity and moving in the field of time. The field of time is the
field of sorrow. "All life is sorrowful." And it is. If you try to
correct the sorrows, all you do is shift them somewhere else. Life is
sorrowful. How do you live with that? You realize the eternal within
yourself. You disengage, and yet, re-engage. You -- and here's the
beautiful formula -- "participate with joy in the sorrows of the
world." You play the game. It hurts, but you know that you have
found the place that is transcendent of injury and fulfillments. You
are there, and that's it.
</quote>
<quote>
Now in Tibet, people go to a slaughter-house, buy a lamb that is about
to be killed, then give the lamb its freedom, and that is a pious act.
Accordingly, there was a monk, who had a cluster of beautiful girls
around him, who wanted to perform a pious act by freeing five hundred
fish.
And so, with his constellation of beauties, he went from one bait shop
to another in Monterey trying to buy five hundred minnows. But bait
was in short supply, and the shopkeepers said they were not going to
sell him minnows for liberation. Finally, however, he found a shop
that would, and he and his entourage, carrying buckets filled with
fish, went down to the shore, where they had a ceremony of blessing
the fish that were about to be given their freedom. They they dumped
one bucket after another into the ocean. Well, pelicans flocked from
every point of the compass, and the little monk ran back and forth,
waving his robe, trying to keep the pelicans away.
Now, what is good for pelicans is bad for fish, and this monk has
taken sides. He was not in the middle place. This is to me a very
important story. Every now and then, I wake up laughing at that monk
and his banquet for the pelicans.
</quote>
The way to 'get it to work in your mind' is to stop trying to see the
world as the set of a Disney film. Life gives way to life, life
builds on life, and death is the mechanism by which that happens.
Is it really so hard for you to understand how people who appreciate
their place in this cycle ("Today that deer will be food for me;
someday, I'll be food for something else") would have so little
interest in appreciating the beauty and majesty and mystery of the
participants?
That attitude goes back to the prehistoric paintings of animals that
have been found in caves. Do you suppose the people who made those
paintings didn't also share what knowledge they had about how to kill
the animals they celebrated in their art?
If you're going to 'get it to work in your mind', you're going to have
to open your mind a little, and give some serious thought to the place
that humans -- and all other forms of life -- occupy in the world.
And for sure you're going to have to shed some of your prejudices
about hunters.
an0...@hotmail.com
>This is a serious question. Can someone please explain to me how an art
>contest can be held championing the beauty of God's creatures, and then on the
>next page talk about how to shoot them. I can't make that work in my mind.
>Hunters, please tell me how you make it work in yours. This is not meant to be
>provocative, I would really like to hear your rationale.
This is simple to answer Ayla.
Do you eat meat? Then all you are doing is paying someone to kill and
butcher "Elsie the Cow" for you.
Got a leather purse? Wallet? Shoes? Same thing.
Pork? How about "Porky Pig".
Chicken? Well Foghorn Leghorn is getting his poor head clubbed and
chopped off so you can have those McNuggets.
Charlie Tuna?
So, the short answer is "All of G-d's creations are spectacular and
objects of wonder."
"And they serve a purpose too."
I hope this helps!
From the Centers for Disease Control:
1996 Firearms deaths=34,040.
Suicide accounts for 53% of total=18,041
Homicide accounts for 42% of total=14,297.
1996 Deaths due to Alcohol=19,770
1996 Motor Vehicle deaths= 43,649
From the National Safety Council:
Drowning deaths 1998 = 4,100
INDIVIDUAL RIGHT:
A single human being (as contrasted with a social group or institution)'s
power or privilege to which one is justly entitled.
Ian Underwood
>>Ayla wrote:
>>>
>>> This is a serious question. Can someone please explain to me how an art
>>> contest can be held championing the beauty of God's creatures, and then on
>>the
>>> next page talk about how to shoot them. I can't make that work in my mind.
>>> Hunters, please tell me how you make it work in yours. This is not meant
>>to be
>>> provocative, I would really like to hear your rationale.
>>>
>>> http://www.nrahq.org/youth/wildlife.shtml
>>>
>>> Ayla
>>From: Doug Smith dsm...@tacnet.missouri.org
>
>>Ayla, humans have been drawing pictures of their prey
>>for tens of thousands of years. Man's earliest art
>>drew on prey animals for subjects. I don't find it the
>>least bit unnatural. Why do you?
>>
>>
>
>That would be a good point, but it implies that today's hunting stems from a
>lack of human evolution.
Or from a respect for tradition; or from an appreciation of the
fundamental nature of the universe (i.e., life gives way to life, life
builds on life, and the mechanism by which that occurs is death); or
from an understanding of the virtues of self-reliance; or...
an0...@hotmail.com
>>Ayla wrote:
>>>
>>> This is a serious question. Can someone please explain to me how an art
>>> contest can be held championing the beauty of God's creatures, and then on
>>the
>>> next page talk about how to shoot them. I can't make that work in my mind.
>>> Hunters, please tell me how you make it work in yours. This is not meant
>>to be
>>> provocative, I would really like to hear your rationale.
>>>
>>> http://www.nrahq.org/youth/wildlife.shtml
>>>
>>> Ayla
>>From: Doug Smith dsm...@tacnet.missouri.org
>
>>Ayla, humans have been drawing pictures of their prey
>>for tens of thousands of years. Man's earliest art
>>drew on prey animals for subjects. I don't find it the
>>least bit unnatural. Why do you?
>>
>>
>
>That would be a good point, but it implies that today's hunting stems from a
>lack of human evolution. Hunting 10,0000 years ago was for food and survival,
>now it's primarily for sport, right?
>
>Ayla
Wrong.
I know *no one* who shoots for "trophy". Everyone hunts for *meat*.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety"
-Benjamin Franklin
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every
one who aproaches that jewel.Unfortunatly, nothing will preserve
it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."
-Patrick Henry
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility
of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom,
depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your
arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your
chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that
you were our countrymen."
--Samuel Adams
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on
what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed
lamb contesting the vote."
-Benjamin Franklin
"'Necessity' is the excuse for every infringement of freedom.
It is the argument of the tyrant, and the creed of the slave."
- William Pitt,
an0...@hotmail.com
<Gerald.B...@gte.net> wrote:
>"Ayla" <ayla...@aol.comempower> wrote in message
>news:20000622172705...@ng-fy1.aol.com...
an0...@hotmail.com
>>
>>In article <20000622071324...@ng-cn1.aol.com>, Ayla
>><ayla...@aol.comempower> wrote:
>>
>>> This is a serious question. Can someone please explain to me how an art
>>> contest can be held championing the beauty of God's creatures, and then on
>>the
>>> next page talk about how to shoot them. I can't make that work in my mind.
>>
>>> Hunters, please tell me how you make it work in yours. This is not meant
>>to
>>> be
>>> provocative, I would really like to hear your rationale.
>>>
>>> http://www.nrahq.org/youth/wildlife.shtml
>>>
>>> Ayla
>>From: Allen James shra...@REMOVEenteract.com
>
>>
>>Do you eat meat?
>>
>>Do you eat and/or use any animal products for anything?
>
>Yeah, but I don't see contests for pictures of cows and chickens.
>
>
>Ayla
No you don't. But, the money you use to purchase animal derived
products pays for the advertising of these products you see everywhere
around you.
Did somebody say McDonalds??
"Business!" cried the Ghost, wringing its hands again.
"Mankind was my business. The common welfare was my
business; charity, mercy, forbearance, and benevolence,
were, all, my business. The dealings of my trade were
but a drop of water in the comprehensive ocean of my business!"
-The ghost of Jacob Marley to Scrooge "A Christmas Carol"
By Charles Dickens
an0...@hotmail.com
wrote:
>In article <20000622071324...@ng-cn1.aol.com>,
>ayla...@aol.comempower (Ayla) writes:
>
>>
>>This is a serious question. Can someone please explain to me how an art
>>contest can be held championing the beauty of God's creatures, and then on
>>the
>>next page talk about how to shoot them. I can't make that work in my mind.
>>Hunters, please tell me how you make it work in yours. This is not meant to
>>be
>>provocative, I would really like to hear your rationale.
>>
>>http://www.nrahq.org/youth/wildlife.shtml
>>
>>Ayla
>>
>
>It's pretty simple, Ayla; first, divest yourself of the prejudice that hunters
>kill animals because they hate them, or out of some bloodthirsty motivation.
>
>I hunt because I like being outdoors, I like the chase, I like the skills
>inherent to hunting, I like being in the presence of wildlife, I like being a
>predator, and I like to eat what I kill. It tastes good. I appreciate the
>gutty reality that hunting teaches the hunter. You learn that life ain't a
>bambi cartoon, and death is something to be respected.
>
>I also admire the fauna I see during the hunt, or any time, for that matter. I
>admire the squirrel for its quickness and savvy; the rabbit for its skill at
>hiding itself; the pheasant for its explosive flight or canny, sneaky ways, and
>its plumage; the dove for its aerobatics, the duck for the sound it makes as it
>comes in over my head from behind, and its beautiful colors; the deer for its
>leaps and speed, and its silence. The coyote for its wiliness, and the yellow
>of its eyes.
>
>
>Andrew "FF"
>Freedom Fetishist and
>Plain 'Ol Citizen
>
Well said!!!! Bravo!!!
US Code Title 10 Sec. 311.
Militia: composition and classes
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are -
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard
and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of
the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the
Naval Militia.
an0...@hotmail.com
>This is a serious question. Can someone please explain to me how an art
>contest can be held championing the beauty of God's creatures, and then on the
>next page talk about how to shoot them. I can't make that work in my mind.
>Hunters, please tell me how you make it work in yours. This is not meant to be
>provocative, I would really like to hear your rationale.
>
>http://www.nrahq.org/youth/wildlife.shtml
>
>Ayla
Consider this too:
In NY State, where they decided to highly restrict deer hunting, the
suburbs are being overrun with the critters....now they have to pay
folk to kill them off, because of the overpopulation. The carcasses
are ending up who knows where.
Thousands of deer are dying slow miserable deaths by starving...
Does that make any sense??
I spent all my life
in uniform fighting
for the survival of
this country...
(there is)
no mercy for the weak,
no second opportunity
for those who cannot
defend themselves.
-EHUD BARAK
an0...@hotmail.com
I wonder what Ayla thinks of the millions of animals that are bred
strictly for the table. They have no "lives" so to speak. Their
entire existence is lived out on crowded, efficient "death camps" run
by Hormel, Perdue, Tyson, Armour et al.
At least the critters in the wood get to experience life as the
Creator meant.
Sheesh.
On Thu, 22 Jun 2000 19:41:33 GMT, mla...@communicom-inc.com (Mark
LaHaye) wrote:
>On 22 Jun 2000 11:13:24 GMT, ayla...@aol.comempower (Ayla) wrote:
>
>>This is a serious question. Can someone please explain to me how an art
>>contest can be held championing the beauty of God's creatures, and then on the
>>next page talk about how to shoot them. I can't make that work in my mind.
>>Hunters, please tell me how you make it work in yours. This is not meant to be
>>provocative, I would really like to hear your rationale.
>>
From the Centers for Disease Control:
Mark Jones
ayla...@aol.comempower (Ayla) spake thusly:
>This is a serious question. Can someone please explain to me how an art
>contest can be held championing the beauty of God's creatures, and then on the
>next page talk about how to shoot them. I can't make that work in my mind.
>Hunters, please tell me how you make it work in yours. This is not meant to be
>provocative, I would really like to hear your rationale.
How, exactly, would this be different from an art contest in which
the participants drew a beautiful still life picture of a bowl of
fruit, and then wrote about good ways to prepare said fruit for a
meal?
Does admiring an attractive arrangement of fruit somehow mean that
you can't possibly enjoy eating them?
Does enjoying the art of tracking and killing prey preclude enjoying
the sight of an active, healthy example of the animal in question?
It's not an either/or choice in either case.
"You don't expect governments to obey the law because of some
higher moral development. You expect them to obey the law because
they know that if they don't, those who aren't shot will be hanged."
-Michael Shirley
Ayla
>Consider this too:
>
>In NY State, where they decided to highly restrict deer hunting, the
>suburbs are being overrun with the critters....now they have to pay
>folk to kill them off, because of the overpopulation. The carcasses
>are ending up who knows where.
>
>Thousands of deer are dying slow miserable deaths by starving...
>
>Does that make any sense??
Absolutely. We have major urban sprawl problems here and the deer have
overpopulated for their decreased habitat. It's too bad people insist on
encroaching.
They've tried a lot of things here, too, including controlled kills and
relocation. I've heard in some areas they actually contribute the dressed
carcasses to food pantries.
Ayla
Ayla
>And yea, verily, on 22 Jun 2000 11:13:24 GMT,
>ayla...@aol.comempower (Ayla) spake thusly:
>
>>This is a serious question. Can someone please explain to me how an art
>>contest can be held championing the beauty of God's creatures, and then on
>the
>>next page talk about how to shoot them. I can't make that work in my mind.
>>Hunters, please tell me how you make it work in yours. This is not meant to
>be
>>provocative, I would really like to hear your rationale.
>
>How, exactly, would this be different from an art contest in which
>the participants drew a beautiful still life picture of a bowl of
>fruit, and then wrote about good ways to prepare said fruit for a
>meal?
>
>Does admiring an attractive arrangement of fruit somehow mean that
>you can't possibly enjoy eating them?
>
>Does enjoying the art of tracking and killing prey preclude enjoying
>the sight of an active, healthy example of the animal in question?
>
>It's not an either/or choice in either case.
>
Hmm, interesting perspective, I guess I've never thought of myself as a fruit
and vegetable hunter.
Somehow comparing the juice of an orange to causing the blood to be spilled
from an animal as quite different. Some earlier justifications have made more
sense.
Ayla
Mark Jones
ayla...@aol.comempower (Ayla) spake thusly:
>>From: sin...@pacifier.com (Mark Jones)
>>How, exactly, would this be different from an art contest in which
>>the participants drew a beautiful still life picture of a bowl of
>>fruit, and then wrote about good ways to prepare said fruit for a
>>meal?
>>
>>Does admiring an attractive arrangement of fruit somehow mean that
>>you can't possibly enjoy eating them?
>>
>>Does enjoying the art of tracking and killing prey preclude enjoying
>>the sight of an active, healthy example of the animal in question?
>>
>>It's not an either/or choice in either case.
>>
>
>Hmm, interesting perspective, I guess I've never thought of myself as a fruit
>and vegetable hunter.
Then get a clue.
>Somehow comparing the juice of an orange to causing the blood to be spilled
>from an animal as quite different. Some earlier justifications have made more
>sense.
Your emotional reactions are irrelevant, except of course to you.
That _you_ can't detect the agony and injustice you're inflicting on
that poor, defenseless orange only proves that you, too, are
insufficiently sensitized to the plight of fruits and vegetables.
I recommend that you peruse the PETS (People Eating Tasty Scum)
website to learn how you can achieve a cruelty-free diet by
subsisting entirely on lichens, moss and other lower forms of life,
thereby sparing countless oranges, carrots and other higher plant
forms.
That's www.pets.com
Robert Frenchu
>This is a serious question. Can someone please explain to me how an art
>contest can be held championing the beauty of God's creatures, and then on the
>next page talk about how to shoot them. I can't make that work in my mind.
>Hunters, please tell me how you make it work in yours. This is not meant to be
>provocative, I would really like to hear your rationale.
Animals taste good. If you don't shoot them first, they squirm around
too much when you eat them.
Any questions?
--
If my "assault rifle" makes me a criminal
And my encryption program makes me a terrorist
Does Dianne Feinstein's vagina make her a prostitute?
NASCAR
>This is a serious question. Can someone please explain to me how an art
>contest can be held championing the beauty of God's creatures, and then on the
>next page talk about how to shoot them. I can't make that work in my mind.
>Hunters, please tell me how you make it work in yours. This is not meant to be
>provocative, I would really like to hear your rationale.
>
>http://www.nrahq.org/youth/wildlife.shtml
>
>Ayla
Do you wear leather shoes or own a leather belt? Do you eat meat?
Doug Smith
>
> In article <20000622071324...@ng-cn1.aol.com>,
> ayla...@aol.comempower (Ayla) writes:
>
> >
> >contest can be held championing the beauty of God's creatures, and then on
> >the
> >next page talk about how to shoot them. I can't make that work in my mind.
> >Hunters, please tell me how you make it work in yours. This is not meant to
> >be
> >provocative, I would really like to hear your rationale.
> >
> >http://www.nrahq.org/youth/wildlife.shtml
> >
> >Ayla
> >
>
> kill animals because they hate them, or out of some bloodthirsty motivation.
>
> I hunt because I like being outdoors, I like the chase, I like the skills
> inherent to hunting, I like being in the presence of wildlife, I like being a
> predator, and I like to eat what I kill. It tastes good. I appreciate the
> gutty reality that hunting teaches the hunter. You learn that life ain't a
> bambi cartoon, and death is something to be respected.
>
> I also admire the fauna I see during the hunt, or any time, for that matter. I
> admire the squirrel for its quickness and savvy; the rabbit for its skill at
> hiding itself; the pheasant for its explosive flight or canny, sneaky ways, and
> its plumage; the dove for its aerobatics, the duck for the sound it makes as it
> comes in over my head from behind, and its beautiful colors; the deer for its
> leaps and speed, and its silence. The coyote for its wiliness, and the yellow
> of its eyes.
>
> Andrew "FF"
> Freedom Fetishist and
> Plain 'Ol Citizen
And the groundhog for his paranoia (although I am actually out to get
him) and the prairie dog for his numbers. And the crow for being
smarter
than most of the people I deal with each day.
Well said, you saved me the trouble.
--
"I honestly think - and I am not an expert on the amendments -
I think the only people in this nation who should be allowed to
own guns are police officers. I don't care if you want to hunt,
I don't care if you think it's your right. I say 'sorry'. It is
1999, we have had enough as a nation. You are not allowed to own
a gun and if you do own a gun, I think you should go to prison."
April 21, 1999
Rosie O'Donnell
no one of consequence
]Life was a lot simpler when we were all hunters and gatherers, but the
]invention of beer led us into agriculture (to ensure a steady supply
]of barley), thus to religion (when the crops failed), including
]animal sacrifice (for a better harvest next year). Now we sit in
]cubes all day, come home, and watch TV. To get outdoors we play golf.
Ah, evolution. ;-)
--
|Patrick Chester (Now in Elmhurst, Illinois) wol...@io.com |
|"Anything I can do to help?" "Um. Short of dying? No, can't think of a |
| thing." -Morden, Vir. 'Interludes and Examinations' -Babylon 5 |
|Wittier remarks always come to mind just after sending your article.... |
Ayla
>Do you wear leather shoes or own a leather belt? Do you eat meat?
>
>
You missed the point of my question, but others have given me thoughtful,
serious answers, for which I thank them.
Ayla
Jim Alder
>
> >Ayla wrote:
> >>
> >> This is a serious question. Can someone please explain to me how an art
> >> contest can be held championing the beauty of God's creatures, and then on
> >> Hunters, please tell me how you make it work in yours. This is not meant
> >> to be provocative, I would really like to hear your rationale.
> >Ayla, humans have been drawing pictures of their prey
> >for tens of thousands of years. Man's earliest art
> >drew on prey animals for subjects. I don't find it the
> >least bit unnatural. Why do you?
>
> That would be a good point, but it implies that today's hunting stems from a
> lack of human evolution. Hunting 10,0000 years ago was for food and survival,
> now it's primarily for sport, right?
Not entirely. The hunt has evolved from stone knives
and bear skins, but it is still a hunt. Football is
warfare sporterized, but again, it's merely evolved. As
long as there is boxing, I don't think you can claim
man has evolved all that much.
Hunting is merely an expression of the primal. Of
course, for some it's just a chance to be a drunken
idiot in the woods, and that is how today's hunter is
portrayed by the media, but since when can the media be
trusted? They're rare.
Do you think it is a horrible thing when a predator
in the woods kills a deer? It's how the system works,
and has since before man was even a part of it. Some
people seem to think man wasn't and isn't a part of it,
and is somehow a spectator and above the whole
predator/prey thing. But he isn't. Why shouldn't he use
his brains and talent to participate? You think if a
cheetah had opposing thumbs and sufficient brain power,
he wouldn't prefer a 30-06 to running his ass across
the plains?
--
Jim Alder - official poster of the new millennium
Ian Underwood
wrote:
>Hmm, interesting perspective, I guess I've never thought of myself as a fruit
>and vegetable hunter.
>
>Somehow comparing the juice of an orange to causing the blood to be spilled
>from an animal as quite different. Some earlier justifications have made more
>sense.
Try reading _The Selfish Gene_, by Richard Dawkins.
Steve
> Hmm, interesting perspective, I guess I've never thought of myself as a
fruit
> and vegetable hunter.
>
> Somehow comparing the juice of an orange to causing the blood to be
spilled
> from an animal as quite different. Some earlier justifications have made
more
> sense.
>
> Ayla
Vegetables and fruit are not sentient beings [ to any researchers knowledge
so far ].
This is why vegetarians are so positive that they have the high moral ground
against meat-eaters.
But what will happen if one day it is proven than plants "think",
communicate and are capable of feeling pain?
Would green-earth rights groups say that "vegetable picking is murder"?
Would vegetarians stop eating altogether?
As silly as that sounds, you still have to apply the same logic to their
attitude towards meat eaters.
Animals in the wild, from tiny moles on up to larger animals, kill every
single day to survive [ insects also ].
The use teeth and claws instead of guns, but why does that matter?
The woodlands are teeming with life that feeds off of itself,
it is a totally self-perpetuating system that WE are a part of.
If mankind had not killed off most of the larger predators in many areas of
the world we would be much MORE a part of that food chain.
Steve