Cyrillic on the euro?
guy-jin
1. do any of the countries the EU plans on expanding into use the
cyrillic alphabet?
2. If so, Would these countries switch to the euro immidiately, later,
or never?
3. If these countries adopt the euro, will cyrillic appear on the
euro, and how would 'euro' be spelled?
Christian Feldhaus
> 1. do any of the countries the EU plans on expanding into use the
> cyrillic alphabet?
Depends on how you define "plan" :-) Currently 13 countries are in
membership negotiations with the European Union: Bulgaria, Cyprus, Czech
Rep., Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Poland, Romania,
Slovakia, Slovenia, Turkey. Some of them will join the EU fairly soon,
probably in 2004. Others will follow if/when they meet the political,
economic, etc. criteria, see
http://europa.eu.int/comm/enlargement/index.htm
Of these 13 "candidates", only Bulgaria uses the Cyrillic alphabet. As
far as I know, the country is not very likely to be in the first group
of new member states.
> 2. If so, Would these countries switch to the euro immidiately, later,
> or never?
"Later", I think. On one hand, new member states do not have an opt-out
clause. On the other hand it will take a while until their economies are
ready for the euro - maybe two years, maybe more or less.
> 3. If these countries adopt the euro, will cyrillic appear on the
> euro, and how would 'euro' be spelled?
The designs of the coins and notes reflect the European Union, not just
Euroland. (That is why, for example, the UK is depicted on the coins,
even though it is not a euro country.) So I suppose that when Bulgaria
becomes an EU member, Cyrillic text will be added to the euro notes. As
for the coins, guess that Latin characters only will continue to be
used, just as it is done now - Greece where the Greek alphabet is used
puts the Greek text on the country specific sides of the coins.
The word EURO written in Cyrillic looks close to the Greek word that you
can already find on the present notes. The difference is that the fourth
character is not an omega but a "latin style" O. As far as I can tell,
that is - I am not an expert on those alphabets :-)
Christian
WolfWolf
"Christian Feldhaus" <cfng...@feldhausnet.de> wrote in message
news:1fgs4i2.pn0glc8s8jycN%cfng...@feldhausnet.de...
EURO in (Bulgarian) Cyrillic appears like EBPO [spelled "evro"], so it is
optically 25% closer to Latin than to Greek :-)).
Anticipating the answer to your next questions:
In Maltese it is EWRO.
With the accession of Cyprus (with or without reunification), Turkish will
be included. The logical Turkish term would be AVRU, but vox populi has
already decided to stick to EURO.
WolfWolf
The European
J.M.
"WolfWolf" <em...@address.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:aj78bj$n7h$1...@nntp-m01.news.aol.com...
I think that there will be only one official spelling of EURO using the
Latin alphabet, so neither Maltese nor Turkish special requests are likely
to be considered....
Jan
WolfWolf
"J.M." <jm...@gmx.de_remove_this> wrote in message
news:aj7o3o$ro4$1...@news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de...
>
> "WolfWolf" <em...@address.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:aj78bj$n7h$1...@nntp-m01.news.aol.com...
> >
> > "Christian Feldhaus" <cfng...@feldhausnet.de> wrote in message
> > news:1fgs4i2.pn0glc8s8jycN%cfng...@feldhausnet.de...
> > > guy-jin <gu...@usa.net> wrote:
> > >
>
> >
> > EURO in (Bulgarian) Cyrillic appears like EBPO [spelled "evro"], so it
is
> > optically 25% closer to Latin than to Greek :-)).
> > Anticipating the answer to your next questions:
> > In Maltese it is EWRO.
>
> I think that there will be only one official spelling of EURO using the
> Latin alphabet, so neither Maltese nor Turkish special requests are likely
> to be considered....
Perhaps you are right, but I wouldn't be so sure. With the cent we have
already different writings (especially Greek 'lepta').
I did not check how 'cent' would be written in Bulgarian and other
languages. I leave that to others. :-))
WolfWolf
The European
J.M.
>
> "J.M." <jm...@gmx.de_remove_this> wrote in message
> news:aj7o3o$ro4$1...@news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de...
> >
> > "WolfWolf" <em...@address.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> > news:aj78bj$n7h$1...@nntp-m01.news.aol.com...
> > >
> > > "Christian Feldhaus" <cfng...@feldhausnet.de> wrote in message
> > > news:1fgs4i2.pn0glc8s8jycN%cfng...@feldhausnet.de...
> > > > guy-jin <gu...@usa.net> wrote:
> > > >
> >
> > >
> > > EURO in (Bulgarian) Cyrillic appears like EBPO [spelled "evro"], so it
> is
> > > optically 25% closer to Latin than to Greek :-)).
> > > Anticipating the answer to your next questions:
> > > In Maltese it is EWRO.
> >
> > I think that there will be only one official spelling of EURO using the
> > Latin alphabet, so neither Maltese nor Turkish special requests are
likely
> > to be considered....
>
> Perhaps you are right, but I wouldn't be so sure. With the cent we have
> already different writings (especially Greek 'lepta').
Not really. Although it is legal to use this term, it is not used on
official coinage, except for possibly the national Greek side, which is also
the only place where the Greek spelling of Euro can be found on coins. I
suspect that for coins, this practice will continue, i.e. that the coins
will only have "eurocent" on the common side and that the various states may
put whatever they want on the national side. Furthermore, the official name
of the currency is Euro, that is what the EU agreed to call it, and that is
the official name in all countries and there is one official spelling using
the Greek alphabet. For the cent, there are various official names and
plurals used, one of them being lepto. For the bank notes, I suspect, they
will add one official spelling in the cyrillic alphabet once Bulgaria joins.
I don't see why further changes will be needed for either Malta or Turkey.
Jan
WolfWolf
"J.M." <jm...@gmx.de_remove_this> wrote in message
Maybe you don't see it (and I don't see it either), but *they* see it.
Wouldn't be the first case where changes are made for the vanity of new
members.
In both cases I took the information from official sources in the local
language (Turkey: EU Representation in Ankara, Malta: Maltese Government -
the EU Representation in La Valetta has its Maltese "website fi
preparazzjoni").
In any case, it seems that in a not so distant future the bank notes need to
be re-designed. According to a recent report, their material resistance and
useful life is not so good as expected - only 3-4 cycles between central
bank and user.
WolfWolf
The European
guy-jin
> guy-jin <gu...@usa.net> wrote:
>
> > 1. do any of the countries the EU plans on expanding into use the
> > cyrillic alphabet?
>
> Depends on how you define "plan" :-) Currently 13 countries are in
> membership negotiations with the European Union: Bulgaria, Cyprus, Czech
> Rep., Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Poland, Romania,
> Slovakia, Slovenia, Turkey. Some of them will join the EU fairly soon,
> probably in 2004. Others will follow if/when they meet the political,
> economic, etc. criteria, see
> http://europa.eu.int/comm/enlargement/index.htm
>
> Of these 13 "candidates", only Bulgaria uses the Cyrillic alphabet.
latvia, lithuania, and estonia do not? even though they were in the USSR?
> As far as I know, the country is not very likely to be in the first group
> of new member states.
>
why not?
WolfWolf
"guy-jin" <gu...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:774e24ad.0208...@posting.google.com...
> cfng...@feldhausnet.de (Christian Feldhaus) wrote in message
news:<1fgs4i2.pn0glc8s8jycN%cfng...@feldhausnet.de>...
> > guy-jin <gu...@usa.net> wrote:
> >
> > > 1. do any of the countries the EU plans on expanding into use the
> > > cyrillic alphabet?
> >
> > Depends on how you define "plan" :-) Currently 13 countries are in
> > membership negotiations with the European Union: Bulgaria, Cyprus, Czech
> > Rep., Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Poland, Romania,
> > Slovakia, Slovenia, Turkey. Some of them will join the EU fairly soon,
> > probably in 2004. Others will follow if/when they meet the political,
> > economic, etc. criteria, see
> > http://europa.eu.int/comm/enlargement/index.htm
> >
> > Of these 13 "candidates", only Bulgaria uses the Cyrillic alphabet.
>
> latvia, lithuania, and estonia do not? even though they were in the USSR?
Even during the times of the Soviet Empire, the three Baltic languages
Latvian, Lithuanian and Estonian used always Latin alphabet.
>
> > As far as I know, the country is not very likely to be in the first
group
> > of new member states.
> >
>
> why not?
Because Bulgaria is still distant from fulfilling the accession criteria
(like Romania and Turkey).
Since Nice we know that there is a first and a second enlargement wave.
Bulgaria is in the second.
The fresh press report below may give you a more comprehensive overview.
Regards
WolfWolf
The European
Verheugen is champion of ex-communist east
BRUSSELS, Aug 12 (Reuters) - If the European Union achieves its historic
goal of eastern enlargement in the next 18 months, don't be surprised if
monuments start going up in the squares of Poland and Hungary to a German
little known in Western Europe.
Candidate states know that no one has worked harder than Guenter Verheugen,
the EU commissioner for enlargement, to make sure they join the wealthy
western European club after years of wrenching economic and political reform
since the communist era.
The plain-talking, bespectacled Social Democrat has become a household name
in the swath of countries from the Baltic to the Black Sea eyeing EU
membership in 2004 or at the latest 2008.
Nearly three years into a job he clearly loves, Verheugen tirelessly
criss-crosses a region still dogged by unemployment, low living standards
and environmental woes, exhorting governments to speed up reforms needed for
membership.
And he never misses a chance to tell the 15 current member states that
enlargement is too important to fail and will bring big economic and
political benefits to them too.
"One day we will have to put up a monument to him," said Danuta Huebner,
Polish Secretary of State for European Affairs.
"He knows our psychology, our Polish reality," she said.
Ten countries aim to conclude accession talks in December and to join the EU
in 2004. They are Poland, the Czech Republic, Hungary, Slovakia, Slovenia,
Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta and Cyprus. Bulgaria and Romania hope to
join a few years later.
For the candidate countries Verheugen, a former confidant of German
Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, is a skilful negotiator with the instinct of a
seasoned politician for when to use the "stick" and when the "carrot" to
achieve results.
PASSION
But his stolid, methodical manner conceals a passion for the cause of
European unification that can be traced back to his early days amid the
ruins of post-war Germany.
"I was born in 1944, so I remember the destroyed German cities. Such
experience shows that EU integration is not only the best way to guarantee
peace but also the best way to achieve prosperity," the Rhinelander said
recently.
Enlargement is a quintessentially German interest -- effectively making
Germany the geographical and economic centre of a reunited Europe. Who
better than a German to sell the cost of enlargement to sceptical German
voters?
Yet while he is respected in Brussels as a competent operator in full
command of a large and complex portfolio, Verheugen is sometimes suspected
of taking orders from Berlin.
For example, he has stated repeatedly that enlargement without Poland -- by
far the biggest candidate -- is simply "unthinkable," echoing Schroeder.
Diplomats say that while this may be true, especially given Germany's guilt
feelings over its World War Two occupation of Poland, Verheugen's comments
have fed fears among Hungarians and Czechs that they might be kept waiting
for Warsaw.
That is less of a concern now because Poland, which lagged its neighbours in
accession talks last year, is back among the frontrunners. And Verheugen has
on other occasions told Warsaw it risks missing the boat if it does not
press on with reforms.
Verheugen's critics have also pointed to his very German insistence that
workers from candidate states be excluded from the EU jobs market for up to
seven years after accession.
This position reflected German and Austrian fears of being inundated with
cheap labour from the east after enlargement.
POLITICAL REALISM
Verheugen's supporters say it merely shows his political realism. In any
case, the final arrangements allow member states to admit eastern workers
from day one after enlargement if they wish -- and several have pledged to
do so.
On the other side, candidates grumbled loudly of discrimination when the
Commission proposed in January to grant their farmers only 25 percent of the
income support received by current member states.
The figure would rise to 100 percent over 10 years, according to the
proposal, which has yet to be endorsed by the EU member governments.
Giving the lie to suggestions that Verheugen does only Berlin's bidding,
Germany led criticism of the Commission plan, saying any farm aid for the
candidate countries would complicate efforts to reform the costly Common
Agricultural Policy.
Verheugen stuck to his guns, predicting calmly that the final deal offered
to the candidates in late October or November will include some direct
payments but not on the scale that the applicant countries would like.
As one EU diplomat observed, "when he is criticised by the candidates for
offering too little and by the member states for giving away too much, you
sense that he has probably got it just about right."
Nevertheless, accusations that the Commission, and Verheugen personally,
have whitewashed the candidates' true state of readiness for EU membership
refuse to die down.
The gross domestic product per capita of most candidate countries is half or
less that of current member states.
Several candidates -- the three Baltic states, Slovenia and Slovakia -- have
existed as independent states for only around a decade and had to build
institutions virtually from scratch.
Even old, established states such as Poland and Bulgaria are struggling to
modernise their creaking legal and administrative systems in line with EU
requirements.
FEARS OF DELAY
Yet Verheugen plays down such fears, saying that in some cases the
candidates have even surpassed some member states in transposing EU laws and
regulations into national legislation.
He fears that setting unrealistically high standards for the candidates
risks stoking anger and disaffection among their voters and possibly
delaying enlargement for a generation.
Born on April 28, 1944 in the Rhineland town of Bad Kreuznach, Verheugen
worked as a journalist before entering German politics to work for the
liberal Free Democratic Party.
In 1982, he switched to the Social Democrats in an unusual move that
underscored his antipathy to Helmut Kohl, the Christian Democrat then
chancellor of Germany who led a coalition with the Free Democrats.
Verheugen steadily built contacts in eastern Europe after the fall of the
Berlin Wall in 1989, though he was initially sceptical about prospects for
any early enlargement of the EU.
He entered Schroeder's government in 1998 as deputy foreign minister,
playing a role in maintaining domestic support for Germany's participation
in the Kosovo war.
As a member of Romano Prodi's Commission since 1999, he spearheaded the
drive to double the number of candidates negotiating for entry from six to
12 -- overruling more cautious Commission civil servants -- and to hold out
the prospect of eventual EU membership for Turkey.
In sharp contrast to some German Christian Democrats, who say predominantly
Muslim Turkey does not belong in the Union, Verheugen said: "I don't see the
EU as a Christian club. The criteria (for membership) are political, not
religious."
Though he insists Ankara must meet EU standards on human rights and
political freedoms, Verheugen says Turkey is "strategically the most
important of the applicant countries."
Maybe Ankara too will one day boast a statue of Verheugen.
Christian Feldhaus
> Maybe you don't see it (and I don't see it either), but *they* see it.
> Wouldn't be the first case where changes are made for the vanity of new
> members.
Of course such changes are possible, but they are quite unlikely. In
some (actually most) euro countries the plural, for example, is
variable. There are euros, euri, evri, eurot, eurai, and many more --
and yet what you see on the notes is "euro" (in capital Latin and Greek
characters), since that is official name of the currency according to EU
legislation. There are cents, sentii, centimes, etc. -- and yet the word
"cent" is used on the common sides of the coins.
An interesting article about the varying names of the euro (primarily
from an Irish point of view) is here:
http://www.evertype.com/standards/euro/euronames.html
> In any case, it seems that in a not so distant future the bank notes need to
> be re-designed. According to a recent report, their material resistance and
> useful life is not so good as expected - only 3-4 cycles between central
> bank and user.
Yes, I read about that. But if it's true that this is primarily a German
"problem" because many wallets currently used in Germany are not large
(high) enough to hold the large euro notes ... then I don't think that
this issue alone would be a sufficient reason for some redesign at this
stage :-)
Christian
WolfWolf
> WolfWolf <em...@address.net> wrote:
>
> > Maybe you don't see it (and I don't see it either), but *they* see it.
> > Wouldn't be the first case where changes are made for the vanity of new
> > members.
>
> Of course such changes are possible, but they are quite unlikely. In
> some (actually most) euro countries the plural, for example, is
> variable. There are euros, euri, evri, eurot, eurai, and many more --
> and yet what you see on the notes is "euro" (in capital Latin and Greek
> characters), since that is official name of the currency according to EU
> legislation. There are cents, sentii, centimes, etc. -- and yet the word
> "cent" is used on the common sides of the coins.
>
> An interesting article about the varying names of the euro (primarily
> from an Irish point of view) is here:
> http://www.evertype.com/standards/euro/euronames.html
Interesting. Thanks.
Shows again that languages are subject to conventions which must be fixed at
the moment the 'document' goes to the print shop.
>
> > In any case, it seems that in a not so distant future the bank notes
need to
> > be re-designed. According to a recent report, their material resistance
and
> > useful life is not so good as expected - only 3-4 cycles between central
> > bank and user.
>
> Yes, I read about that. But if it's true that this is primarily a German
> "problem" because many wallets currently used in Germany are not large
> (high) enough to hold the large euro notes ... then I don't think that
> this issue alone would be a sufficient reason for some redesign at this
> stage :-)
I have heard about the "wallet" argument, but I don't find it convincing. I
think that in the meantime wallets are mostly standardized all over Europe -
doesn't matter if you buy them from El Corte Inglés, Lafayette or Kaufhof.
Where I am most frequently receiving euro banknotes in pitiable conditions
is at fast food restaurants - always the same, doesn't matter if I am in
Portugal or Netherlands.
WolfWolf
The European
Gerard van Wilgen
> guy-jin <gu...@usa.net> wrote:
>
> > 1. do any of the countries the EU plans on expanding into use the
> > cyrillic alphabet?
>
> Depends on how you define "plan" :-) Currently 13 countries are in
> membership negotiations with the European Union: Bulgaria, Cyprus, Czech
> Rep., Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Poland, Romania,
> Slovakia, Slovenia, Turkey. Some of them will join the EU fairly soon,
> probably in 2004. Others will follow if/when they meet the political,
> economic, etc. criteria, see
> http://europa.eu.int/comm/enlargement/index.htm
>
> Of these 13 "candidates", only Bulgaria uses the Cyrillic alphabet. As
> far as I know, the country is not very likely to be in the first group
> of new member states.
[en]
It will probably take more than ten years before using the Cyrillic script
on euro notes will need to be considered. The following national European
languages are written in the Cyrillic script:
Bulgarian
Macedonian
Russian
Serbo-Croatian (mainly in Serbia, in Croatia and Bosnia the Latin script is
used)
Ukrainian
White Russian
[eo]
Vershajne pli ol dek jaroj preterpasos antau ol oni bezonos konsideri la
uzon de la cirila skribado sur eurobiletoj. La sekvontajn naciajn europajn
lingvojn oni skribas en cirila skribado:
bulgara
makedona
rusa
serbkroata (chefe en Serbujo, en Kroatujo kaj Bosnujo oni uzas latinan
skribadon)
ukrajna
belorusa
Gerard van Wilgen
Gerard van Wilgen
news:<1fgs4i2.pn0glc8s8jycN%cfng...@feldhausnet.de>...
> > guy-jin <gu...@usa.net> wrote:
> >
> > > 1. do any of the countries the EU plans on expanding into use the
> > > cyrillic alphabet?
> >
> > Depends on how you define "plan" :-) Currently 13 countries are in
> > membership negotiations with the European Union: Bulgaria, Cyprus, Czech
> > Rep., Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Poland, Romania,
> > Slovakia, Slovenia, Turkey. Some of them will join the EU fairly soon,
> > probably in 2004. Others will follow if/when they meet the political,
> > economic, etc. criteria, see
> > http://europa.eu.int/comm/enlargement/index.htm
> >
> > Of these 13 "candidates", only Bulgaria uses the Cyrillic alphabet.
>
> latvia, lithuania, and estonia do not? even though they were in the USSR?
[en]
Latvian, Lithuanian and Estonian have always been written in the Latin
alphabet.
In all of those countries there is a sizable Russian speaking minority, but
it is doubtful that Russian will become an official EU language in the near
future.
[eo]
La latvan, la litovan kaj la estonan lingvon oni chiam skribis en la latina
alfabeto.
En chiuj el tiuj landoj estas relative granda minoritato kiu parolas la
rusan, sed estas dube ke la rusa ighos oficiala EU-lingvo en la proksima
estonteco.
guy-jin
[snip]
> [en]
>
> It will probably take more than ten years before using the Cyrillic script
> on euro notes will need to be considered. The following national European
> languages are written in the Cyrillic script:
>
> Bulgarian
> Macedonian
> Russian
> Serbo-Croatian (mainly in Serbia, in Croatia and Bosnia the Latin script is
> used)
> Ukrainian
> White Russian
Thanks for the info, but FYI, 'white russia' and its variants are no
longer used
in English to refer to the former soviet country now known as belarus.
(its people and its language are called 'belorussian')
Gerard van Wilgen
> longer used
> in English to refer to the former soviet country now known as belarus.
Yes they are. I use them, so they are still used :-)
> (its people and its language are called 'belorussian')
"Bel-" means "white" in English, so the change is merely a cosmetic one.
Gerard van Wilgen
Dag Øien
gu...@usa.net (guy-jin) wrote:
> > Of these 13 "candidates", only Bulgaria uses the Cyrillic alphabet.
>
> latvia, lithuania, and estonia do not? even though they were in the USSR?
The three baltic republics were brutally occupied by the russians, and
they have their own languages, which are not in any way russian dialects.
The fourth baltic republic of Königsberg is still occupied by the
russians, but there the entire original population has been displaced
and repopulated by russians decades ago.
The baltic states are not the only former Soviet republics which don't
use cyrillic anymore. Azerbaijan switched to latin script one year ago.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/not_in_website/syndication/monitoring/media_re
ports/1468569.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/europe/2165547.stm
[)ag (/)ien