James P Hogan
Ahmn
the creationist crap is now reciting in his new non-fiction book.Go take
a look at a sample at www.jamesphogan.com.Can't say that i'm shaken but
surprise and sad.Take a look at the first chapter Humanistic religion.
Augray
in news:<27945-40...@storefull-3136.bay.webtv.net>:
> James P Hogan is one of my favorite sci-fi writer but i can't believe
> the creationist crap is now reciting in his new non-fiction book.Go take
> a look at a sample at www.jamesphogan.com. Can't say that i'm shaken but
> surprise and sad.Take a look at the first chapter Humanistic religion.
That's... really sad. I really like the books of his that I've read.
I'll have to post something on his bulletin board about bird
evolution... 8)
Louann Miller
>James P Hogan is one of my favorite sci-fi writer but i can't believe
>the creationist crap is now reciting in his new non-fiction book.Go take
>a look at a sample at www.jamesphogan.com [ ].Can't say that i'm shaken but
>surprise and sad.Take a look at the first chapter Humanistic religion.
(space in brackets added to make url work properly in my browser)
The rec.arts.sf.written crowd down the hall makes reference to a
mythical creature called the Brain Eater when a respected SF writer
goes from telling stories to lecturing the reader about
socio-political issues or other Theories of Everything. (Make your
favorite Robert A. Heinlein joke if you have one.)
The Brain Eater often begins with delicate nibbles, so it's not always
easy to identify exactly when a writer becomes a victim. But Hogan's
1999 nonfiction anthology "Minds, Machines and Evolution" is said to
have some disturbing wobbles. And the novel "Cradle of Saturn,"
published the same year, is clear-quill Velikovsky just like Ted
Holden used to make.
Cyde Weys
news:oeg0f05fhov9orqau...@4ax.com:
That's really sad. Hopefully Stephen Baxter will never have his brain
eaten (but from everything I've seen so far, that's not likely to happen).
--
~ Cyde Weys ~
Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me ...
MurphyInOhio
>published the same year, is clear-quill Velikovsky just like Ted
>Holden used to make.
Could you elaborate, my dear? And, who is Ted Holden? I have heard him bitterly
reviled, though in hushed corridors, by the true believers in evolutionism.
Matt Silberstein
He also says global warming is not happening, that West Nile virus
does not exist, and stands up for David Irving. I am glad I have not
read his books, I certainly will avoid spending any money that will go
to him.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do in order to understand.
Bob Casanova
appeared in talk.origins, posted by
murphy...@wmconnect.com (MurphyInOhio):
>> And the novel "Cradle of Saturn,"
>>published the same year, is clear-quill Velikovsky just like Ted
>>Holden used to make.
>>louann
>
>Could you elaborate, my dear? And, who is Ted Holden? I have heard him bitterly
>reviled
Doubtful. Referred to with an amused sort of condescension,
perhaps (such as many view yourself), but "reviled"? Nah...
>, though in hushed corridors, by the true believers in evolutionism.
....which are nonexistent, therefore demonstrating the
validity of my claim. Thanks.
--
Bob C.
Reply to Bob-Casanova @ worldnet.att.net
(without the spaces, of course)
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"
- Isaac Asimov
Patrick James
(in article <murphy-20040710155...@mb-m11.wmconnect.com>):
Ted's My Hero. Where you're just a sad troll, Ted was and is a Genuine Class
1A Net.Kook. (Maybe when you grow up you can be as completely loony-toons as
Ted... nah. There's only one Ted.) He's also a founding member of the t.o
crowd, dating back to when it was net.origins. He thinks that Neanderthals
colonized Mars from the Earth by riding on the backs of really big birds
through magnetic flux tubes from the tops of magic mountains. He thinks that
chickens can't fly. He thinks mammoths are unkillable, except perhaps by
cold. He thinks that the Earth used to orbit Saturn. All this and more is on
his web site, <http://www.bearfabrique.org/>. Enjoy.
--
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Patrick James
(in article <uim0f05hrf2022c2m...@4ax.com>):
Some of his early books are pretty good. _Thrice Upon a Time_ is one of the
better time-travel stories I've seen; the protagonists can't physically
travel in time themselves, but they can send messages. And sending those
messages has _serious_ consequences. _The Proteus Operation_ is another
time-travel story, again, written to avoid the usual potholes. _Voyage From
Yesteryear_ is _not_ a time-travel story. In retrospect you can see the
wheels starting to come off here, as the plot is, ah, libertarian in the
extreme. The Giant's Star trilogy has, ah, very interesting biology, and
again shows signs of things to come, but moves _really_ fast and the Brain
Eater's effects are again noticeable only in retrospect. (Note that there are
in fact _five_ Giant's Star books. Stay far, far, far away from the last two.
You've been warned.) The last book of his which was readable was _The Code of
the Lifemaker_, but by then the Brain Eater was fully in control.
Louann Miller
No problem, puppy doll. Ted Holden was a Velikovsky supporter who
still turns up occasionally, although his Golden Age of posting was
several years ago. He is best remembered for his theory that based on
studies of a Russian weight lifter and modern elephants, large
dinosaurs would have been unable to stand up under their own weight.
(His figures also prove that elephants cannot stand on two legs;
photographs and eyewitness accounts of elephants doing exactly that
did not shake his faith in his math.)
However, he had a further theory that proved to his own satisfaction
that "the felt force of gravity" was less millions of years ago,
allowing large dinosaurs to function on a technicality.
Ted is not so much reviled as missed. Sure he was a kook, but he was
funnier than the kooks we get these days.
Louann Miller
<patj...@newsguy.com> wrote:
(of Ted Holden's belief system)
>He thinks that
>chickens can't fly.
AFAIK, most modern commercial breeds of chickens can't. Not further
than ten feet or so. Guinea hens, OTOH, fly like crazy.
ObWKRP: "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."
Louann
Steve Schaffner
> On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 19:52:56 +0000 (UTC), the following
> appeared in talk.origins, posted by
> murphy...@wmconnect.com (MurphyInOhio):
>
> >> And the novel "Cradle of Saturn,"
> >>published the same year, is clear-quill Velikovsky just like Ted
> >>Holden used to make.
> >>louann
> >
> >Could you elaborate, my dear? And, who is Ted Holden? I have heard him bitterly
> >reviled
>
> Doubtful. Referred to with an amused sort of condescension,
> perhaps (such as many view yourself), but "reviled"? Nah...
Please -- MiO can't hold a candle to Holden. What has MiO given us
to compare with flux tubes to Saturn, the felt effect of gravity, and
flying feral chickens? Holden is a genuine loon; MiO is just some
annoying guy you knew in eigth grade.
--
Steve Schaffner s...@broad.mit.edu
Immediate assurance is an excellent sign of probable lack of
insight into the topic. Josiah Royce
Matt Silberstein
Any of that worth supporting a Holocaust denier?
Pip R. Lagenta
wrote:
>James P Hogan is one of my favorite sci-fi writer but i can't believe
I greatly enjoyed his early works from the 1970's and the very early
1980's. But it soon became clear that James P. Hogan was a clueless
reactionary nut case. I gave up on him years ago. What I see now are
the fruits of the extremists positions that James P. Hogan has long
held. Nonetheless, I had never seen him spout any creationist
foolishness until "Kicking the Sacred Cow: Questioning the
Unquestionable and Thinking the Impermissible".
In the early 1980's, I decided that Hogan had abandoned rational
thought. So, I guess, once rational thought is abandoned, creationism
can't be completely unexpected.
內躬偕爻,虜,齯滌`偕爻,虜,齯滌`偕爻,虜,齯滌`偕爻,虜,齯滌`偕爻,
Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta
�虜,齯滌`偕爻,虜,齯滌`偕爻,虜,齯滌`偕爻,虜,齯滌`偕爻,虜,齯滌
-- Pip R. Lagenta
President for Life
International Organization Of People Named Pip R. Lagenta
(If your name is Pip R. Lagenta, ask about our dues!)
---
<http://home.comcast.net/~galentripp/pip.html>
(For Email: I'm at home, not work.)
Patrick James
(in article <e6s0f01r8vbfutb4p...@4ax.com>):
Based on some of his stuff he's a very strange Holocaust denier as he's also
anti-nazi. Violently so. I've got no idea why, or how, he combines the two.
He's even less fond of Communists than he is of nazis, so that's not it.
Pip R. Lagenta
<s...@darwin.broad.mit.edu> wrote:
[snip]
>MiO is just some
>annoying guy you knew in eigth grade.
The annoying guy I knew in 8th grade? Peter Rothaug? MurphyInOhio is
Peter Rothaug?
Peter! How the Hell are you? Er... Don't answer that. Apparently
you've gone insane.
e...@drizzle.com
> The last book of his which was readable was _The Code of
> the Lifemaker_, but by then the Brain Eater was fully in control.
_Code of the Lifemaker_ is worth reading for the opening
chapter, and that's about it. It is one of the better fictional
descriptions of a mechanical evolutionary system.
One early book people frequently miss is _Two Faces of
Tomorrow_, about a team trying to force an AI to emerge. For safety's
sake, they do this on a space station specially built for the project.
They *think* their firewalls are solid...
Elf
Patrick James
(in article <22p0f0tvqchpc7q4e...@4ax.com>):
> On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 21:21:03 +0000 (UTC), Patrick James
> <patj...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
> (of Ted Holden's belief system)
>
>> He thinks that
>> chickens can't fly.
>
> AFAIK, most modern commercial breeds of chickens can't. Not further
> than ten feet or so. Guinea hens, OTOH, fly like crazy.
My next-door neighbour when I was a boy had a (very illegal) chicken coop.
Her chickens used to get out of the coop and fly over the fence (about six
foot tall) into our back yard all the time. I had a golden retriever, which
just loved to retrieve the birds and bring them to me. Unfortunately the
birds all tended to be dead by the time he delivered them. The neighbour
complained about the dog killing her chickens; my father pointed out that the
birds came to to dog, not the dog to the birds, and besides her coop was
illegal. She shut up and fixed the coop until the next time.
Every time Ted said that chickens can't fly I was remembered those birds. It
sure looked as though they flew over the fence to me... Yes, they couldn't
fly very far, but they could fly.
>
> ObWKRP: "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."
They needed magnetic flux tubes to reduce the felt effect of gravity.
>
> Louann
Klaus Hellnick
"Louann Miller" <loua...@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:22p0f0tvqchpc7q4e...@4ax.com...
That was a great episode, dropping turkeys from a helicopter.
Klaus
Lieutenant Kizhe Katson
Last I heard, Hogan hadn't gone Creationist _per se_, rather
Catastrophist of the Velikovskian variety (but if you recall Ted
Holden's rantings, you know that Cat'ists have a bug up their
collective ass about evolution as well). It comes out somewhat in
_The Legend That Was Earth_ (just to blow my own horn, here's my
opinion on that book: http://tinyurl.com/2dp9e) and explicitly (or so
I understand, as I haven't read it) in _Cradle of Saturn_. Sounds
like Hogan has been caught by the Brain Eater.
-- Kizhe
Tom McDonald
Wild turkeys actually can fly. But if that bunch had any Wild
Turkey, I doubt they'd have dumped it out the door of a chopper :-).
Tom McDonald
anxious triffid
news:Xns95229FA9E52D32g...@199.45.49.11:
> Louann Miller <loua...@yahoo.net> wrote in
> news:oeg0f05fhov9orqau...@4ax.com:
>
>>
>> The rec.arts.sf.written crowd down the hall makes reference to a
>> mythical creature called the Brain Eater when a respected SF writer
>> goes from telling stories to lecturing the reader about
>> socio-political issues or other Theories of Everything. (Make your
>> favorite Robert A. Heinlein joke if you have one.)
>
> That's really sad. Hopefully Stephen Baxter will never have his brain
> eaten (but from everything I've seen so far, that's not likely to
> happen).
>
That's the truly distrubing thing about the brain eater: it can strike
anywhere for no apparent reason - one moment quality control exists, the
next it is nowhwere to be seen.
Bigdakine
>From: anxious triffid anxious...@INFEAROFSPAMfserve.co.uk
>Date: 7/10/04 3:11 PM Hawaiian Standard Time
>Message-id: <Xns9523166D699FFan...@217.32.252.50>
I've observed that it often follows some sort of crises in life after which the
brain eater helps the victum cope.
Stuart
Dr. Stuart A. Weinstein
Ewa Beach Institute of Tectonics
"To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a creationist"
"Creationists aren't impervious to Logic: They're oblivious to it."
Lieutenant Kizhe Katson
[snip some intervening posts, and Pat's pretty good summary of Hogan's
_oeuvre_]
> Any of that worth supporting a Holocaust denier?
Hadn't heard about the Irving/Revisionist angle on Hogan. Yikes --
the guy has totally flipped! Or maybe it's just part of a general
"everything we know is wrong" kick (we all know a few folks like
that). Got any URLs that go into more detail?
Anyways: no, likely not worth financially supporting someone you find
that objectionable. But if you can ignore the association, definitely
worth ransacking second-hand book-shops for.
-- Kizhe
AC
I suspect that he is a pseudo-skeptic, who seem to feel comfortable
questioning even things for which there is an overwhelming amount of
evidence. Such people, oddly enough, will accept the most idiotic things,
while rejecting historical facts or well-supported scientific theories.
--
Aaron Clausen
mightym...@hotmail.com
Ken Shaw
Louann Miller wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 21:21:03 +0000 (UTC), Patrick James
> <patj...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
> (of Ted Holden's belief system)
>
>
>>He thinks that
>>chickens can't fly.
>
>
> AFAIK, most modern commercial breeds of chickens can't. Not further
> than ten feet or so. Guinea hens, OTOH, fly like crazy.
>
Commercial breeds of chicken can fly if given a chance to learn and
develop the muscles involved. This won't happen inside an industrial
coop. OTOH when I was a child my brother and I pestered our parents into
getting us a chick for Easter. We raised the rooster as a pet and it was
quite capable of flight. He was clumsy and not fast on take off but once
he was airborne he could fly at least a hundred feet. A surprisingly
good pet for two active boys. I miss him still.
Ken
Walter Bushell
Louann Miller <loua...@yahoo.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 19:52:56 +0000 (UTC), murphy...@wmconnect.com
> (MurphyInOhio) wrote:
>
> >> And the novel "Cradle of Saturn,"
> >>published the same year, is clear-quill Velikovsky just like Ted
> >>Holden used to make.
> >>louann
> >
> >Could you elaborate, my dear? And, who is Ted Holden? I have heard him
> >bitterly
> >reviled, though in hushed corridors, by the true believers in evolutionism.
>
> No problem, puppy doll. Ted Holden was a Velikovsky supporter who
> still turns up occasionally, although his Golden Age of posting was
> several years ago. He is best remembered for his theory that based on
> studies of a Russian weight lifter and modern elephants, large
> dinosaurs would have been unable to stand up under their own weight.
> (His figures also prove that elephants cannot stand on two legs;
> photographs and eyewitness accounts of elephants doing exactly that
> did not shake his faith in his math.)
The math may be correct. It may be the underlying assumptions that are
incorrect. Mathematics (as math) makes _no_ predictions about this or
any other world. John can do his math homework in 1/2 hour while Mary
can do it in 15 minutes. How long will it take both of them working
together to do their homework?
>
> However, he had a further theory that proved to his own satisfaction
> that "the felt force of gravity" was less millions of years ago,
> allowing large dinosaurs to function on a technicality.
>
> Ted is not so much reviled as missed. Sure he was a kook, but he was
> funnier than the kooks we get these days.
--
Guns don't kill people; automobiles kill people.
MurphyInOhio
>to compare with flux tubes to Saturn, the felt effect of gravity, and
>flying feral chickens? Holden is a genuine loon; MiO is just some
>annoying guy you knew in eigth grade.
I am a skeptic of evolution. That places me at the flash point of evolutionist
bitterness and their (ineffectual) attempts at smearing me. I brush aside the
evolutionists as I would maggots from the rotting corpse of evolution to expose
the corruption.
Stanley Friesen
>
>Ted's My Hero. Where you're just a sad troll, Ted was and is a Genuine Class
>1A Net.Kook. (Maybe when you grow up you can be as completely loony-toons as
>Ted... nah. There's only one Ted.) He's also a founding member of the t.o
>crowd, dating back to when it was net.origins. He thinks that Neanderthals
>colonized Mars from the Earth by riding on the backs of really big birds
>through magnetic flux tubes from the tops of magic mountains. He thinks that
>chickens can't fly.
Ah yes, I remember that argument. Even personal observation to the
contrary couldn't shake him.
> He thinks mammoths are unkillable, except perhaps by
>cold. He thinks that the Earth used to orbit Saturn. All this and more is on
>his web site, <http://www.bearfabrique.org/>. Enjoy.
Hmm, and isn't Venus a former comet in his fantasies?
And, oh yes, all of the major Biblical miracles are due to massive
reorganizations of the Solar System.
One of the more fascinating loons I have ever interacted with.
The peace of God be with you.
Stanley Friesen
MurphyInOhio
>Peter Rothaug?
>morbius
Well, yes I am Peter Rothaug. And Mrs.Rothaug says she still can not stand you.
Stanley Friesen
>
>ObWKRP: "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."
>
two of the 5 best were from *that* *episode*.
Gary Bohn
news:U82Ic.230113$Gx4.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
When, as a child I went to my cousin's farm, we would take a chicken,
tuck its head under its wing and gently rock it until it fell asleep. We
would then throw it as high as possible into the air to listen to its
panicked squawking as it flew to the ground. Well we thought it was
funny.
They would also fly away from the dogs when the dogs got too playful.
--
apatriot #23, aa #1779, Grand Pubba, EAC Department of Oxygen
Deprivation Gary Bohn
Conservatism is not about tradition and morality, hasn't been for many
decades...It is about the putative biological and spiritual superiority
of the wealthy. Greg Bear
Ernest Major
<loua...@yahoo.net> writes
>
>The Brain Eater often begins with delicate nibbles, so it's not always
>easy to identify exactly when a writer becomes a victim. But Hogan's
>1999 nonfiction anthology "Minds, Machines and Evolution" is said to
>published the same year, is clear-quill Velikovsky just like Ted
>Holden used to make.
>
"Inherit the Stars".
--
alias Ernest Major
alias Ernest Major
<mightym...@hotmail.com> writes
>
>I suspect that he is a pseudo-skeptic, who seem to feel comfortable
>questioning even things for which there is an overwhelming amount of
>evidence. Such people, oddly enough, will accept the most idiotic things,
>while rejecting historical facts or well-supported scientific theories.
>
shown beyond unreasonable doubt, but uncritically accept hypothesis for
which evidence is conspicuously lacking. (One of the sci.skeptic kooks
used the term to mean anyone who hadn't opened his mind until his brains
fell out, but I don't see why we can't appropriate the term with a more
suitable meaning.)
--
alias Ernest Major
Tristan Miller
In article <0er0f0dlib2qd6ih3...@4ax.com>, Pip R. Lagenta
wrote:
>
> 內躬偕爻,虜,齯滌`偕爻,虜,齯滌`偕爻,虜,齯滌`偕爻,虜,齯滌`偕爻,
> Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta
> �虜,齯滌`偕爻,虜,齯滌`偕爻,虜,齯滌`偕爻,虜,齯滌`偕爻,虜,齯滌
>
> -- Pip R. Lagenta
> President for Life
> International Organization Of People Named Pip R. Lagenta
> (If your name is Pip R. Lagenta, ask about our dues!)
> ---
> <http://home.comcast.net/~galentripp/pip.html>
> (For Email: I'm at home, not work.)
Would you mind delimiting this non-ASCII, 11-line monstrositiy of a sig
with the standard separator? Or better yet, trimming it to the standard
four lines or less? Note also that since you didn't specify a character
set in your message headers, your cute graphics come out as complete
gibberish in any newsreader not set to iso-8859-1 by default.
--
_
_V.-o Tristan Miller [en,(fr,de,ia)] >< Space is limited
/ |`-' -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= <> In a haiku, so it's hard
(7_\\ http://www.nothingisreal.com/ >< To finish what you
Matt Silberstein
<s...@darwin.broad.mit.edu> wrote:
[snip]
>Please -- MiO can't hold a candle to Holden. What has MiO given us
>to compare with flux tubes to Saturn, the felt effect of gravity, and
>flying feral chickens? Holden is a genuine loon; MiO is just some
>annoying guy you knew in eigth grade.
I always figured that most t.o regulars were the ones others
considered that annoying guy in 8th grade.
Matt Silberstein
<loua...@yahoo.net> wrote:
>On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 21:21:03 +0000 (UTC), Patrick James
><patj...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
>(of Ted Holden's belief system)
>
>>He thinks that
>>chickens can't fly.
>
>AFAIK, most modern commercial breeds of chickens can't. Not further
>than ten feet or so. Guinea hens, OTOH, fly like crazy.
>
>ObWKRP: "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."
Coincidentally last night at a party we were discussing great funny
moments on TV. We talked about the death of Chuckles the Clown and
then I asked if anyone had seen the legendary WKRP in Cincinnati
Thanksgiving episode. No one had, so I mentioned that they dropped
turkeys from a helicopter. Then I gave the line: "As God is my
witness, I thought turkeys could fly." It broke up the room.
Matt Silberstein
<patj...@newsguy.com> wrote:
Well, as I said, he defends David Irving as a historian. People can be
anti-Nazi, anti-Communist, and anti-Semitic all at the same time.
TomS
<jko0f0pgi0cauubs5...@4ax.com>, Louann Miller stated..."
>>>published the same year, is clear-quill Velikovsky just like Ted
>>>Holden used to make.
>>
>>Could you elaborate, my dear? And, who is Ted Holden? I have heard him bitterly
>>reviled, though in hushed corridors, by the true believers in evolutionism.
>
>No problem, puppy doll. Ted Holden was a Velikovsky supporter who
>still turns up occasionally, although his Golden Age of posting was
>several years ago. He is best remembered for his theory that based on
>studies of a Russian weight lifter and modern elephants, large
>dinosaurs would have been unable to stand up under their own weight.
>(His figures also prove that elephants cannot stand on two legs;
>photographs and eyewitness accounts of elephants doing exactly that
>did not shake his faith in his math.)
>
>that "the felt force of gravity" was less millions of years ago,
>allowing large dinosaurs to function on a technicality.
>
>Ted is not so much reviled as missed. Sure he was a kook, but he was
>funnier than the kooks we get these days.
>
Perhaps the most enduring legacy of Ted Holden is the
name "howler monkeys" for those who support evolutionary biology.
My favorite part of Ted's theories is the idea that when the
earth was orbiting Saturn, the north pole of the earth was always
pointed toward Saturn. As I recall, when it was suggested that
this involved a violation of the conservation of angular momentum,
Ted responded that, if that were so, then a motorcycle could not
turn corners.
A significant part of Ted's theories are based on the idea
that ancient myths are telling the literal truth, in disguised
form. And that these "observations" trump any "theories". So
that when the Greek myth says that Athena sprang from the brow
of Zeus, this means that the planet Venus came from the planet
Jupiter. (Ignoring, for the moment, that Venus=Aphrodite,
the goddess of love, and backer of the Trojans, was most
definitely not Athena, the virgin goddess, and backer of the
Greeks. There is some way of patching this up, but I've
forgotten how.)
---Tom S.
"It appears that no serious naturalist has ever rested content with unexplained
diversity in nature."
William Coleman, Biology in the Nineteenth Century (1971), page 70
Louann Miller
<mightym...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I suspect that he is a pseudo-skeptic, who seem to feel comfortable
>questioning even things for which there is an overwhelming amount of
>evidence. Such people, oddly enough, will accept the most idiotic things,
>while rejecting historical facts or well-supported scientific theories.
"You'll believe _anything_ as long as it isn't true."
Louann, who never got to use that quip in person.
Louann Miller
(MurphyInOhio) wrote:
>I am a skeptic of evolution. That places me at the flash point of evolutionist
>bitterness and their (ineffectual) attempts at smearing me. I brush aside the
>evolutionists as I would maggots from the rotting corpse of evolution to expose
>the corruption.
Bluntly, though, you're not any good at it. You must have posted close
to a million words by this time without advancing your argument beyond
"Because I _SAY_ so, you booger-head."
Pip R. Lagenta
So, Peter, you sure have degenerated a great deal from the days in
Junior High School when you were scooping up fresh bird shit and
eating it. How the Great have fallen!
Bob Casanova
appeared in talk.origins, posted by Steve Schaffner
<s...@darwin.broad.mit.edu>:
>Bob Casanova <nos...@buzz.off> writes:
>
>> On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 19:52:56 +0000 (UTC), the following
>> appeared in talk.origins, posted by
>> murphy...@wmconnect.com (MurphyInOhio):
>>
>> >> And the novel "Cradle of Saturn,"
>> >>published the same year, is clear-quill Velikovsky just like Ted
>> >>Holden used to make.
>> >>louann
>> >
>> >Could you elaborate, my dear? And, who is Ted Holden? I have heard him bitterly
>> >reviled
>>
>> Doubtful. Referred to with an amused sort of condescension,
>> perhaps (such as many view yourself), but "reviled"? Nah...
>
>Please -- MiO can't hold a candle to Holden. What has MiO given us
>to compare with flux tubes to Saturn, the felt effect of gravity, and
>flying feral chickens? Holden is a genuine loon; MiO is just some
>annoying guy you knew in eigth grade.
True to an extent, but I'm sure many *do* view him (and most
trolls) with amused condescension. I'm not that charitable,
but whatthehell...
--
Bob C.
Reply to Bob-Casanova @ worldnet.att.net
(without the spaces, of course)
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"
- Isaac Asimov
Bob Casanova
appeared in talk.origins, posted by Matt Silberstein
<matts2...@ix.netcom.com>:
<snip>
>Well, as I said, he defends David Irving as a historian. People can be
>anti-Nazi, anti-Communist, and anti-Semitic all at the same time.
As soon as I read that the line from the Kingston Trio
rendition of "The Merry Minuet" appeared:
"And I don't like anybody very much!"
Earle Jones
Bob Casanova <nos...@buzz.off> wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 13:07:46 +0000 (UTC), the following
> appeared in talk.origins, posted by Matt Silberstein
> <matts2...@ix.netcom.com>:
>
> <snip>
>
> >Well, as I said, he defends David Irving as a historian. People can be
> >anti-Nazi, anti-Communist, and anti-Semitic all at the same time.
>
> As soon as I read that the line from the Kingston Trio
> rendition of "The Merry Minuet" appeared:
>
> "And I don't like anybody very much!"
*
Just for completion:
The Merry Minuet
Kingston Trio
They're rioting in Africa,
They're starving in Spain.
There's hurricanes in Florida,
And Texas needs rain.
The whole world is festering
With unhappy souls.
The French hate the Germans,
The Germans hate the Poles;
Italians hate Yugoslavs,
South Africans hate the Dutch,
And I don't like anybody very much!
But we can be tranquil
And "thankfill" and proud,
For man's been endowed
With a mushroom-shaped cloud.
And we know for certain
That some lovely day
Someone will set the spark off,
And we will all be blown away!
They're rioting in Africa,
There's strife in Iran.
What nature doesn't do to us
Will be done by our fellow man.
earle
*
--
__
__/\_\
/\_\/_/
\/_/\_\ earle
\/_/ jones
John Wilkins
I was considered annoying in 5th grade...
--
John Wilkins; still annoying 38 years later.
john...@wilkins.id.au http://wilkins.id.au
"Men mark it when they hit, but do not mark it when they miss"
- Francis Bacon
Walter Bushell
john...@wilkins.id.au (John Wilkins) wrote:
> Matt Silberstein <matts2...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 21:56:25 +0000 (UTC), Steve Schaffner
> > <s...@darwin.broad.mit.edu> wrote:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > >Please -- MiO can't hold a candle to Holden. What has MiO given us
> > >to compare with flux tubes to Saturn, the felt effect of gravity, and
> > >flying feral chickens? Holden is a genuine loon; MiO is just some
> > >annoying guy you knew in eigth grade.
> >
> > I always figured that most t.o regulars were the ones others
> > considered that annoying guy in 8th grade.
> >
> I was considered annoying in 5th grade...
Unfair, you got an early start.
Andrew Arensburger
> Any of that worth supporting a Holocaust denier?
Hogan's pre-Brain Eater books should be available at your
local public library, or at a used book store.
In other words, yes. I second Pat James's recommendations. Of
course, when I read the Giants trilogy, I didn't know that Hogan
actually _believed_ that stuff (and maybe he didn't yet), so your
mileage may vary. OTOH, I was young and foolish at the time. I read
"Thrice Upon A Time" during the same period that I read Piers
Anthony's Xanth books. That should tell you something.
--
Andrew Arensburger, Systems guy University of Maryland
arensb.no-...@umd.edu Office of Information Technology
It is better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all,
but only if no betting is involved.
Andrew Arensburger
> Would you mind delimiting this non-ASCII, 11-line monstrositiy of a sig
> with the standard separator? Or better yet, trimming it to the standard
> four lines or less? Note also that since you didn't specify a character
> set in your message headers, your cute graphics come out as complete
> gibberish in any newsreader not set to iso-8859-1 by default.
Non-ASCII? Cute graphics? You mean it isn't supposed to look
like this?:
: ???`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,
: Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta
: ?,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????
--
Andrew Arensburger, Systems guy University of Maryland
arensb.no-...@umd.edu Office of Information Technology
New object-oriented language: ADD ONE TO COBOL GIVING COBOL
Mitchell Coffey
(John Wilkins) wrote:
>Matt Silberstein <matts2...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 21:56:25 +0000 (UTC), Steve Schaffner
>> <s...@darwin.broad.mit.edu> wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> >Please -- MiO can't hold a candle to Holden. What has MiO given us
>> >to compare with flux tubes to Saturn, the felt effect of gravity, and
>> >flying feral chickens? Holden is a genuine loon; MiO is just some
>> >annoying guy you knew in eigth grade.
>>
>> I always figured that most t.o regulars were the ones others
>> considered that annoying guy in 8th grade.
>>
>I was considered annoying in 5th grade...
You're one of them slow starters, eh?
Mitchell Coffey
__________________________________
Old age and treachery,
Always overcomes youth and skill.
- Max D. Barnes, Willie Nelson,
Troy Seals & Waylon Jennings
John Wilkins
> On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 23:50:24 +0000 (UTC), john...@wilkins.id.au
> (John Wilkins) wrote:
>
> >Matt Silberstein <matts2...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 21:56:25 +0000 (UTC), Steve Schaffner
> >> <s...@darwin.broad.mit.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >> [snip]
> >>
> >> >Please -- MiO can't hold a candle to Holden. What has MiO given us
> >> >to compare with flux tubes to Saturn, the felt effect of gravity, and
> >> >flying feral chickens? Holden is a genuine loon; MiO is just some
> >> >annoying guy you knew in eigth grade.
> >>
> >> I always figured that most t.o regulars were the ones others
> >> considered that annoying guy in 8th grade.
> >>
> >I was considered annoying in 5th grade...
>
> You're one of them slow starters, eh?
>
Not at all - I just had slow classmates.
--
John Wilkins
John Wilkins
> Tristan Miller <psych...@nothingisreal.com> wrote:
> > Would you mind delimiting this non-ASCII, 11-line monstrositiy of a sig
> > with the standard separator? Or better yet, trimming it to the standard
> > four lines or less? Note also that since you didn't specify a character
> > set in your message headers, your cute graphics come out as complete
> > gibberish in any newsreader not set to iso-8859-1 by default.
>
> Non-ASCII? Cute graphics? You mean it isn't supposed to look
> like this?:
>
> : ???`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,
> : Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta
> : ?,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????
Only to those not clever enough to buy a Mac :-) Think of it as
selection in action. You get what you can process...
Lieutenant Kizhe Katson
> On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 02:21:25 +0000 (UTC),
> Lieutenant Kizhe Katson <lt_k...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > Matt Silberstein <matts2...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<e6s0f01r8vbfutb4p...@4ax.com>...> > [snip some intervening posts, and Pat's pretty good summary of Hogan's
> > _oeuvre_]
> >
> >> Any of that worth supporting a Holocaust denier?
> >
> > the guy has totally flipped! Or maybe it's just part of a general
> > "everything we know is wrong" kick (we all know a few folks like
> > that). Got any URLs that go into more detail?
> >
> > Anyways: no, likely not worth financially supporting someone you find
> > that objectionable. But if you can ignore the association, definitely
> > worth ransacking second-hand book-shops for.
>
> I suspect that he is a pseudo-skeptic, who seem to feel comfortable
> questioning even things for which there is an overwhelming amount of
> evidence. Such people, oddly enough, will accept the most idiotic things,
> while rejecting historical facts or well-supported scientific theories.
I think the term "contrarian pseudo-skeptic" covers the bases (our
dear friend RoadRunner would be an example). Basically, anything
which forms the current consensus or "official" story is to be treated
with hyper-skepticism, even ridicule, while the most bizarre and
evidence-free alternatives are to be taken completely seriously.
After all, the fact that something is accepted by The Establishment is
just evidence that it serves their vested interests, right?
-- Kizhe
Steve Schaffner
> Andrew Arensburger <arensb.no-...@umd.edu> wrote:
>
> > Tristan Miller <psych...@nothingisreal.com> wrote:
> > > Would you mind delimiting this non-ASCII, 11-line monstrositiy of a sig
> > > with the standard separator? Or better yet, trimming it to the standard
> > > four lines or less? Note also that since you didn't specify a character
> > > set in your message headers, your cute graphics come out as complete
> > > gibberish in any newsreader not set to iso-8859-1 by default.
> >
> > Non-ASCII? Cute graphics? You mean it isn't supposed to look
> > like this?:
> >
> > : ???`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,
> > : Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta
> > : ?,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????
>
> Only to those not clever enough to buy a Mac :-) Think of it as
> selection in action. You get what you can process...
And also to those unclever enough (or lazy enough) to buy a Mac and
then read Usenet via emacs on a dumb terminal window. Whoever that
might be.
--
Steve Schaffner s...@broad.mit.edu
Immediate assurance is an excellent sign of probable lack of
insight into the topic. Josiah Royce
John Wilkins
> john...@wilkins.id.au (John Wilkins) writes:
>
> > Andrew Arensburger <arensb.no-...@umd.edu> wrote:
> >
> > > Tristan Miller <psych...@nothingisreal.com> wrote:
> > > > Would you mind delimiting this non-ASCII, 11-line monstrositiy of a sig
> > > > with the standard separator? Or better yet, trimming it to the standard
> > > > four lines or less? Note also that since you didn't specify a character
> > > > set in your message headers, your cute graphics come out as complete
> > > > gibberish in any newsreader not set to iso-8859-1 by default.
> > >
> > > Non-ASCII? Cute graphics? You mean it isn't supposed to look
> > > like this?:
> > >
> > > : ???`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,
> > > : Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta
> > > : ?,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????
> >
> > Only to those not clever enough to buy a Mac :-) Think of it as
> > selection in action. You get what you can process...
>
> And also to those unclever enough (or lazy enough) to buy a Mac and
> then read Usenet via emacs on a dumb terminal window. Whoever that
> might be.
That is (highly) artificial selection. They don't even get to *try*
breeding...
Michael Grosberg
> news:oeg0f05fhov9orqau...@4ax.com:
> > On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 16:04:13 +0000 (UTC), raf...@webtv.net (Ahmn)
> > wrote:
> >
> >>James P Hogan is one of my favorite sci-fi writer but i can't believe
> >>the creationist crap is now reciting in his new non-fiction book.Go
> >>take a look at a sample at www.jamesphogan.com [ ].Can't say that i'm
> >>shaken but surprise and sad.Take a look at the first chapter
> >>Humanistic religion.
> >
> > (space in brackets added to make url work properly in my browser)
> >
> > The rec.arts.sf.written crowd down the hall makes reference to a
> > mythical creature called the Brain Eater when a respected SF writer
> > goes from telling stories to lecturing the reader about
> > socio-political issues or other Theories of Everything. (Make your
> > favorite Robert A. Heinlein joke if you have one.)
> >
> > The Brain Eater often begins with delicate nibbles, so it's not always
> > easy to identify exactly when a writer becomes a victim. But Hogan's
> > 1999 nonfiction anthology "Minds, Machines and Evolution" is said to
> > published the same year, is clear-quill Velikovsky just like Ted
> > Holden used to make.
What are you talking about? Hogan's writing was dire from day one
(Judging from the Giants trilogy, anyway), and the Velikovskian
crackpot theories were there as well.
Tristan Miller
In article <cct24h$cns$2...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>, Andrew Arensburger wrote:
> Tristan Miller <psych...@nothingisreal.com> wrote:
>> Would you mind delimiting this non-ASCII, 11-line monstrositiy of a sig
>> with the standard separator? Or better yet, trimming it to the standard
>> four lines or less? Note also that since you didn't specify a character
>> set in your message headers, your cute graphics come out as complete
>> gibberish in any newsreader not set to iso-8859-1 by default.
>
> Non-ASCII? Cute graphics? You mean it isn't supposed to look
> like this?:
>
> : ???`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,
> : Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta
> : ?,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????
Actually, the latest and greatest Unicode-enabled newsreaders come up with
something almost twice as annoying:
> ??????`????????,????,????????`????????,????,????????`????????,????,????????`????????,????,????????`????????,
> Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta
> ??,????,????????`????????,????,????????`????????,????,????????`????????,????,????????`????????,????,????????
Regards,
Tristan
Pithecanthropus Erectus
>>Please -- MiO can't hold a candle to Holden. What has MiO given us
>>to compare with flux tubes to Saturn, the felt effect of gravity, and
>>flying feral chickens? Holden is a genuine loon; MiO is just some
>>annoying guy you knew in eigth grade.
>>Steve
>
>
> I am a skeptic of evolution. That places me at the flash point of evolutionist
> bitterness and their (ineffectual) attempts at smearing me. I brush aside the
> evolutionists as I would maggots from the rotting corpse of evolution to expose
> the corruption.
>
You are not a skeptic, real skeptics do some groundwork and actually
know what they are trying to refute. It is quite possible that you are
skeptical, but you are displaying all of the features of an
evolution-denier. An ignorant one at that.
mel turner
murphy...@wmconnect.com [MurphyInOhio] wrote...
>
>>Please -- MiO can't hold a candle to Holden. What has MiO given us
>>to compare with flux tubes to Saturn, the felt effect of gravity, and
>>flying feral chickens? Holden is a genuine loon; MiO is just some
>>annoying guy you knew in eigth grade.
>>Steve
>
>I am a skeptic of evolution.
Are you really? That claim itself seems a likely subject for
skepticism. You've shown little or no sign of being any sincere
"skeptic of evolution".
>That places me at the flash point of evolutionist
>bitterness and their (ineffectual) attempts at smearing me.
Is it "smearing" you to point out your blatant inaccuracies? [Is
there really even a "you" there to smear?]
I brush aside the
>evolutionists as I would maggots from the rotting corpse of evolution to expose
>the corruption.
How sweet [oops, you've forgotten to type "evolutionistism" instead of
"evolution"].
So, when do you propose to start "exposing" anything that you think
is factually wrong in evolutionary biology? So far, the vacuity of
your entire body of postings has been rather apparent.
cheers
Andrew Arensburger
> I think the term "contrarian pseudo-skeptic" covers the bases (our
> dear friend RoadRunner would be an example). Basically, anything
> which forms the current consensus or "official" story is to be treated
> with hyper-skepticism, even ridicule, while the most bizarre and
> evidence-free alternatives are to be taken completely seriously.
So I guess the rule is "doubt in proportion to the evidence"? :-)
--
Andrew Arensburger, Systems guy University of Maryland
arensb.no-...@umd.edu Office of Information Technology
"A language that doesn't have everything is actually easier to program
in than some that do." -- Dennis M. Ritchie
James Nicoll
Cyde Weys <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote:
>Louann Miller <loua...@yahoo.net> wrote in
>news:oeg0f05fhov9orqau...@4ax.com:
>
>> On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 16:04:13 +0000 (UTC), raf...@webtv.net (Ahmn)
>> wrote:
>>
>>>James P Hogan is one of my favorite sci-fi writer but i can't believe
>>>the creationist crap is now reciting in his new non-fiction book.Go
>>>take a look at a sample at www.jamesphogan.com [ ].Can't say that i'm
>>>shaken but surprise and sad.Take a look at the first chapter
>>>Humanistic religion.
>>
>> (space in brackets added to make url work properly in my browser)
>>
>> The rec.arts.sf.written crowd down the hall makes reference to a
>> mythical creature called the Brain Eater when a respected SF writer
Ah, unintentional meme-spreading. That was one of a handful
of off-handed comments I made online that took on lives of their own
(The most famous being the English Language thingie).
>> goes from telling stories to lecturing the reader about
>> socio-political issues or other Theories of Everything. (Make your
>> favorite Robert A. Heinlein joke if you have one.)
>>
>> The Brain Eater often begins with delicate nibbles, so it's not always
>> easy to identify exactly when a writer becomes a victim. But Hogan's
>> 1999 nonfiction anthology "Minds, Machines and Evolution" is said to
>> have some disturbing wobbles. And the novel "Cradle of Saturn,"
>> published the same year, is clear-quill Velikovsky just like Ted
>> Holden used to make.
>
>That's really sad. Hopefully Stephen Baxter will never have his brain
>eaten (but from everything I've seen so far, that's not likely to happen).
_Titan_ was pretty bad and _Silverhair_ even worse (1). _Titan_
is riddled with implausible politics (2), and cranky oldguy 'Kids All
Suck' isms.
_Silverhair_ has noble mammoths fighting evil vodka swilling
Rooskies, so that the mammoths can live long enough to emigrate to Mars.
And it has mammoth race-memory going back to before the K/T (Which,
I suppose if you accept twddle like race-memory, makes sense because
how can RM know where one species ends and another begins?). He seems
to have recovered somewhat, though.
James Nicoll
1: For one thing, it didn't have Space-Lesbians and it's well known that
almost any book can be improved by adding Space-Lesbians. _Titan_ had
SLs but it didn't treat them very well.
2: Less plausible than the ballot eaters, and that's saying something.
--
"The keywords for tonight are Caution and Flammable."
Elvis, _Bubba Ho Tep_
MurphyInOhio
>evolutionist
>>bitterness and their (ineffectual) attempts at smearing me. I brush aside
>the
>>evolutionists as I would maggots from the rotting corpse of evolution to
>expose
>>the corruption.
>...you booger-head.
>louann
You advance a stirring argument, my dear.
James Nicoll
Bigdakine <bigd...@aol.comGetaGrip> wrote:
>>Subject: Re: James P Hogan
>>From: anxious triffid anxious...@INFEAROFSPAMfserve.co.uk
>>Date: 7/10/04 3:11 PM Hawaiian Standard Time
>>Message-id: <Xns9523166D699FFan...@217.32.252.50>
>>
>>Cyde Weys <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote in
>>news:Xns95229FA9E52D32g...@199.45.49.11:
>>>> mythical creature called the Brain Eater when a respected SF writer
>>>> socio-political issues or other Theories of Everything. (Make your
>>>> favorite Robert A. Heinlein joke if you have one.)
>>>
>>> eaten (but from everything I've seen so far, that's not likely to
>>> happen).
>>>
>>
>>anywhere for no apparent reason - one moment quality control exists, the
>>next it is nowhwere to be seen.
>>
>
>I've observed that it often follows some sort of crises in life after which the
>brain eater helps the victum cope.
E.g. Dave Sim, post-divorce.
James Nicoll
>> On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 21:34:26 +0000 (UTC), Patrick James
>> <patj...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
>[snip some intervening posts, and Pat's pretty good summary of Hogan's
>_oeuvre_]
>
>> Any of that worth supporting a Holocaust denier?
>
>Hadn't heard about the Irving/Revisionist angle on Hogan. Yikes --
>the guy has totally flipped! Or maybe it's just part of a general
>"everything we know is wrong" kick (we all know a few folks like
>that). Got any URLs that go into more detail?
www.jamesphogan.com should have some gems. That's Hogan's
own website, so you don't have to worry that people are somehow
misunderstanding or misinterpreting him.
Richard S. Crawford
>
>
>>James P Hogan is one of my favorite sci-fi writer but i can't believe
>>the creationist crap is now reciting in his new non-fiction book.Go take
>>surprise and sad.Take a look at the first chapter Humanistic religion.
>
>
> I'll have to post something on his bulletin board about bird
> evolution... 8)
>
That is sad. _Code of the Lifemaker_ was a really interesting novel
when I read it in jr. high, and helped me figure out some of the more
interesting notions in evolution.
--
Richard Crawford (http://www.mossroot.com)
AIM: Buffalo2K / Y!: rscrawford
Ask me about my opposable thumb!
"When you lose the power to laugh at yourself, you lose the power to
think straight." --Clarence Darrow
Richard S. Crawford
I'm pretty sure the _Titan_ trilogy, complete with space lesbians, was
written by John Varley. It sucked, but somehow I managed to read the
entire trilogy.
> _Silverhair_ has noble mammoths fighting evil vodka swilling
> Rooskies, so that the mammoths can live long enough to emigrate to Mars.
> And it has mammoth race-memory going back to before the K/T (Which,
> I suppose if you accept twddle like race-memory, makes sense because
> how can RM know where one species ends and another begins?). He seems
> to have recovered somewhat, though.
>
> James Nicoll
>
>
> 1: For one thing, it didn't have Space-Lesbians and it's well known that
> almost any book can be improved by adding Space-Lesbians. _Titan_ had
> SLs but it didn't treat them very well.
>
> 2: Less plausible than the ballot eaters, and that's saying something.
--
Augray
(MurphyInOhio) wrote in
news:<murphy-20040712110...@mb-m27.wmconnect.com>:
It's more than you do. You just misquote.
Pip R. Lagenta
<psych...@nothingisreal.com> wrote:
>Greetings.
>In article <cct24h$cns$2...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>, Andrew Arensburger wrote:
>> Tristan Miller <psych...@nothingisreal.com> wrote:
>>> Would you mind delimiting this non-ASCII, 11-line monstrositiy of a sig
>>> with the standard separator? Or better yet, trimming it to the standard
>>> four lines or less? Note also that since you didn't specify a character
>>> set in your message headers, your cute graphics come out as complete
>>> gibberish in any newsreader not set to iso-8859-1 by default.
>>
>> Non-ASCII? Cute graphics? You mean it isn't supposed to look
>> like this?:
>>
>> : ???`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,
>> : Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta
>> : ?,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????
>
>Actually, the latest and greatest Unicode-enabled newsreaders come up with
>something almost twice as annoying:
>
>> ??????`????????,????,????????`????????,????,????????`????????,????,????????`????????,????,????????`????????,
>> Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta
>> ??,????,????????`????????,????,????????`????????,????,????????`????????,????,????????`????????,????,????????
Íf ýóú áll wōųlÐ jüst ûsę â måįhïŅë thät îs Ģꧧ thãŅ ēšĸëärsõĢÐ, Î
ÐðŅīt thïŅk thât thérč wóúld ßë ã prõblčm.
ō ó
Ŋ
ŦToday is 7/12/2004 9:10:07 AMŧ
Time to step up.
Īš°`°šĪø,ļļ,øĪš°`°šĪø,ļļ,øĪš°`°šĪø,ļļ,øĪš°`°šĪø,ļļ,øĪš°`°šĪø,
Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta
ø,ļļ,øĪš°`°šĪø,ļļ,øĪš°`°šĪø,ļļ,øĪš°`°šĪø,ļļ,øĪš°`°šĪø,ļļ,øĪš°
-- Pip R. Lagenta
President for Life
International Organization Of People Named Pip R. Lagenta
(If your name is Pip R. Lagenta, ask about our dues!)
---
<http://home.comcast.net/~galentripp/pip.html>
(For Email: I'm at home, not work.)
Lieutenant Kizhe Katson
> On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 16:02:57 -0500, Matt Silberstein wrote
> (in article <uim0f05hrf2022c2m...@4ax.com>):
>
> > On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 19:19:15 +0000 (UTC), Louann Miller
> > <loua...@yahoo.net> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 16:04:13 +0000 (UTC), raf...@webtv.net (Ahmn)
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> James P Hogan is one of my favorite sci-fi writer but i can't believe
> >>> the creationist crap is now reciting in his new non-fiction book.Go take
> >>> a look at a sample at www.jamesphogan.com [ ].Can't say that i'm shaken but
> >>> surprise and sad.Take a look at the first chapter Humanistic religion.
> >>
> >> (space in brackets added to make url work properly in my browser)
> >>
> >> The rec.arts.sf.written crowd down the hall makes reference to a
> >> mythical creature called the Brain Eater when a respected SF writer
> >> socio-political issues or other Theories of Everything. (Make your
> >> favorite Robert A. Heinlein joke if you have one.)
> >>
> >> The Brain Eater often begins with delicate nibbles, so it's not always
> >> easy to identify exactly when a writer becomes a victim. But Hogan's
> >> 1999 nonfiction anthology "Minds, Machines and Evolution" is said to
> >> have some disturbing wobbles. And the novel "Cradle of Saturn,"
> >> published the same year, is clear-quill Velikovsky just like Ted
> >> Holden used to make.
> >
> > does not exist, and stands up for David Irving. I am glad I have not
> > read his books, I certainly will avoid spending any money that will go
> > to him.
Don't forget _The Genesis Machine_, which IIRC was my own intro to
Hogan (no, the word "Genesis" in this context had nothing to do with
the Biblical one. It's the opposite of "Doomsday Machine"). I
survived university on a diet of Niven and Hogan: hard sci-fi, lots of
fun future tech, (frequently-naive) naive applications of undergrad
physics, cardboard characters -- definite nerd-fic, both of them.
> Some of his early books are pretty good. _Thrice Upon a Time_ is one of the
> better time-travel stories I've seen; the protagonists can't physically
> travel in time themselves, but they can send messages. And sending those
> messages has _serious_ consequences. _The Proteus Operation_ is another
> time-travel story, again, written to avoid the usual potholes. _Voyage From
> Yesteryear_ is _not_ a time-travel story. In retrospect you can see the
> wheels starting to come off here, as the plot is, ah, libertarian in the
...which only worked because it was a small colony on a resource-rich
virgin planet, and all the dirty work was done by robots. I read
LeGuin's _The Disposessed_ at about the same time, and found that a
much richer (in the artistic sense!) and more believable anarchist
society.
But yeah, there's always been this loopy socio-political theme lurking
just under the surface of Hogan's otherwise-hard SF.
> extreme. The Giant's Star trilogy has, ah, very interesting biology, and
> again shows signs of things to come, but moves _really_ fast and the Brain
My recollection was they were dramatically a bit "thin", but it's been
20+ years since I read them.
> Eater's effects are again noticeable only in retrospect. (Note that there are
> in fact _five_ Giant's Star books. Stay far, far, far away from the last two.
> You've been warned.) The last book of his which was readable was _The Code of
> the Lifemaker_, but by then the Brain Eater was fully in control.
Sci-fi writers can make up just about any alternative theory of
reality they want -- in fact, that's half the point. So, you can
always just suspend disbelief and read it the story at that level,
without looking for hidden messages from the author. Hogan probably
goes farther than most in cooking up some sort of semi-plausible
theory to explain how all the magic tech (FTL ships, time travel,
teleportation,.....) works. Maybe he's started to believe his own BS.
-- Kizhé
Matt Silberstein
That was how I got the information in the first place. In giving it a
second look I found that he promotes the " Institute for Historical
Review" http://www.ihr.org/, a clear Holocaust denials
anti-Semitic site.
I suspect this, which was on a piece in favor of "ANTISMOKING
FUNDAMENTALISM", is his rational: "I'm not a smoker, but I tend to
lean toward the side of persecuted groups -- especially when they
provide excuses for the morally righteous to vent their spite and
spleen on what society has delivered as defenseless victims."
--
Matt Silberstein
Do in order to understand.
James Nicoll
Matt Silberstein <matts2...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 15:10:41 +0000 (UTC), jdni...@panix.com (James
>Nicoll) wrote:
>
>>In article <47b867ea.04071...@posting.google.com>,
>>Lieutenant Kizhe Katson <lt_k...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>>Matt Silberstein <matts2...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<e6s0f01r8vbfutb4p...@4ax.com>...
>>>> On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 21:34:26 +0000 (UTC), Patrick James
>>>> <patj...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>[snip some intervening posts, and Pat's pretty good summary of Hogan's
>>>_oeuvre_]
>>>
>>>> Any of that worth supporting a Holocaust denier?
>>>
>>>Hadn't heard about the Irving/Revisionist angle on Hogan. Yikes --
>>>the guy has totally flipped! Or maybe it's just part of a general
>>>"everything we know is wrong" kick (we all know a few folks like
>>>that). Got any URLs that go into more detail?
>>
>> www.jamesphogan.com should have some gems. That's Hogan's
>>own website, so you don't have to worry that people are somehow
>>misunderstanding or misinterpreting him.
>
>That was how I got the information in the first place. In giving it a
>second look I found that he promotes the " Institute for Historical
>Review" http://www.ihr.org/, a clear Holocaust denials
>anti-Semitic site.
Where? I missed that somehow, although David Irving apologia
is a big red flag all on its own.
Matt Silberstein
Nicoll) wrote:
http://www.jamesphogan.com/bb/content/041203.shtml, bottom of the
page.
"Note added June 14, 2003
A (free) subscription service for a regular roundup of news and
comments on related topics and the other sides of issues usually
accorded only politically correct coverage is offered by the Institute
for Historical Review. Click on the "News & Views" link."
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Richard S. Crawford <rscrawf...@mossREMOVEWATERFOWLroot.com> said
<big snip>
>>>That's really sad. Hopefully Stephen Baxter will never have his brain
>>>eaten (but from everything I've seen so far, that's not likely to happen).
>>
>>
>> _Titan_ was pretty bad and _Silverhair_ even worse (1). _Titan_
>> is riddled with implausible politics (2), and cranky oldguy 'Kids All
>> Suck' isms.
>
>I'm pretty sure the _Titan_ trilogy, complete with space lesbians, was
>written by John Varley. It sucked, but somehow I managed to read the
>entire trilogy.
Different novel, same title.
Varley's version was missing Space Lesbians, but had Space Centaurs with
so many combinations of different kinds of intercourse (both the human
and the horsey bit being fully equipped) that the author was practically
reduced to providing diagrams. 8>. Strange what you remember about
novels, isn't it.
--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Outgoing Msgs are Turing Tested,and indistinguishable from human typing.
James Nicoll
Well, fuck.
You know, I really wanted to think he was being
stupidly contrarian without actually being antisemitic
but it's very, very, very hard to cut him that slack if
he's plugging the IHR. Impossible, one might say. A waste
of time in terms of outcomes...
Richard S. Crawford
Heh. Okay.
But dammit, there WERE space lesbians in the trilogy! Scirocco Jones
was a space lesbian, and I remember some very explicit scenes.
Hm, they may have been lesbian space centaurs.
They left quite an impression on my 12-year-old mind. Probably why I
became and evilutionist.
James Nicoll
James Nicoll
Tristan Miller
In article <qjb5f0pmgg5oot269...@4ax.com>, Pip R. Lagenta
wrote:
> ??f ?????? ??ll w????l?? j??st ??s?? ?? m????h?????? th??t ??s ???
> th???? ????????????rs????????, ??
> ?????t th????k th??t th??r?? w????ld ???? ?? pr??bl??m.
What kind of ancient, obsolete newsreader are you using that doesn't allow
you to specify a character set for your messages? Perhaps you should
upgrade your system. Or is this some new talk.origins hangman game?
> ???`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,
> Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta
> ?,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????
>
> -- Pip R. Lagenta
> President for Life
> International Organization Of People Named Pip R. Lagenta
> (If your name is Pip R. Lagenta, ask about our dues!)
> ---
> <http://home.comcast.net/~galentripp/pip.html>
> (For Email: I'm at home, not work.)
I've got three simple characters for you, Pip: "-- ". Put your ten-part
epic-novel sig after that and spare us all the eyesore.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
GSV Three Minds in a Can <G...@quik.clara.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
>Different novel, same title.
>
>Varley's version was missing Space Lesbians, but had Space Centaurs with
>so many combinations of different kinds of intercourse (both the human
>and the horsey bit being fully equipped) that the author was practically
>reduced to providing diagrams. 8>. Strange what you remember about
>novels, isn't it.
>
>--
>GSV Three Minds in a Can
>Outgoing Msgs are Turing Tested,and indistinguishable from human typing.
>
Whoa!
Unless I'm totally misremembering there was a Space Lesbian as a main
character. In fact, she came from a whole colony of Space Lesbians.
(Whom generations of dirtsiders had been playing a bad joke on by
sending up sperm from shorter and shorter men as the years went by..)
Ted
Thomas H. Faller
Ah-ha. Saw the symptoms, now the diagnosis makes sense. Any idea
WTF he was shooting for with Issue 300?
Tom Faller
Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes
wrote on Mon, 12 Jul 2004 15:33:55 +0000 (UTC):
> James Nicoll wrote:
>> In article <Xns95229FA9E52D32g...@199.45.49.11>,
>> Cyde Weys <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>That's really sad. Hopefully Stephen Baxter will never have his brain
>>>eaten (but from everything I've seen so far, that's not likely to happen).
>> _Titan_ was pretty bad and _Silverhair_ even worse (1). _Titan_
>> is riddled with implausible politics (2), and cranky oldguy 'Kids All
>> Suck' isms.
> I'm pretty sure the _Titan_ trilogy, complete with space lesbians, was
> written by John Varley. It sucked, but somehow I managed to read the
> entire trilogy.
You're thinking of the other _Titan_ with space lesbians. I loved
Varley's _Titan_ (especially the later books--how could I possibly
resist a book with a 50' tall Marilyn Monroe stomping people to death?).
But Baxter also wrote a book called _Titan_. No, there's no law
against this. Baxter's is... not so good. Feel happy that you haven't
read it.
--
<a href="http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~kamikaze/"> Mark Hughes </a>
"The void breathed hard on my heart, turning its illusions to ice, shattering
them. Was reborn, then, free to scrawl own design on this morally blank
world. Was Rorschach." --Alan Moore, _Watchmen #6_, "The Abyss Gazes Also"
Thomas H. Faller
> On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 21:21:03 +0000 (UTC), Patrick James
> <patj...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
> (of Ted Holden's belief system)
>
> >He thinks that
> >chickens can't fly.
>
> AFAIK, most modern commercial breeds of chickens can't. Not further
> than ten feet or so. Guinea hens, OTOH, fly like crazy.
>
> ObWKRP: "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."
>
> Louann
Did you guys not see "Chicken Run"? Mel Gibson's best role in
decades. Proof that clay can be intelligently designed.
Tom Faller
Thomas H. Faller
> In article <jko0f0pgi0cauubs5...@4ax.com>,
> Louann Miller <loua...@yahoo.net> wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 19:52:56 +0000 (UTC), murphy...@wmconnect.com
> > (MurphyInOhio) wrote:
> >
> > >> And the novel "Cradle of Saturn,"
> > >>published the same year, is clear-quill Velikovsky just like Ted
> > >>Holden used to make.
> > >>louann
> > >
> > >Could you elaborate, my dear? And, who is Ted Holden? I have heard him
> > >bitterly
> > >reviled, though in hushed corridors, by the true believers in evolutionism.
> >
> > No problem, puppy doll. Ted Holden was a Velikovsky supporter who
> > still turns up occasionally, although his Golden Age of posting was
> > several years ago. He is best remembered for his theory that based on
> > studies of a Russian weight lifter and modern elephants, large
> > dinosaurs would have been unable to stand up under their own weight.
> > (His figures also prove that elephants cannot stand on two legs;
> > photographs and eyewitness accounts of elephants doing exactly that
> > did not shake his faith in his math.)
>
> The math may be correct. It may be the underlying assumptions that are
> incorrect. Mathematics (as math) makes _no_ predictions about this or
> any other world. John can do his math homework in 1/2 hour while Mary
> can do it in 15 minutes. How long will it take both of them working
> together to do their homework?
>
With or without all four feet on the floor?
Tom Faller
Richard S. Crawford
> Richard S. Crawford <rscrawf...@mossREMOVEWATERFOWLroot.com>
> wrote on Mon, 12 Jul 2004 15:33:55 +0000 (UTC):
>
>>James Nicoll wrote:
>>
>>>In article <Xns95229FA9E52D32g...@199.45.49.11>,
>>>Cyde Weys <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>That's really sad. Hopefully Stephen Baxter will never have his brain
>>>>eaten (but from everything I've seen so far, that's not likely to happen).
>>>
>>> _Titan_ was pretty bad and _Silverhair_ even worse (1). _Titan_
>>>is riddled with implausible politics (2), and cranky oldguy 'Kids All
>>>Suck' isms.
>>
>>I'm pretty sure the _Titan_ trilogy, complete with space lesbians, was
>>written by John Varley. It sucked, but somehow I managed to read the
>>entire trilogy.
>
>
> You're thinking of the other _Titan_ with space lesbians. I loved
> Varley's _Titan_ (especially the later books--how could I possibly
> resist a book with a 50' tall Marilyn Monroe stomping people to death?).
>
> But Baxter also wrote a book called _Titan_. No, there's no law
> against this. Baxter's is... not so good. Feel happy that you haven't
> read it.
>
Ah. I'd actually forgotten about the 50' tall Marilyn Monroe, stomping
people to a John Phillip Sousa march.
I tried reading _Moonseed_ but Baxter's almost self-conscious
self-congratulation (the blurbs on his books tend to read along the
lines of, "Baxter is the only science fiction author who has dared to
challenge the threat of extra-terrestiral planet-eating nanomachines
dead on, making him the greatest science fiction writer of all time, and
Asimov is a putz") kind of got in the way before I was a third of the
way through.
On the other hand, I've read a few of his short stories on Infinity
Plus, and they've been mind-blowing.
(Personally, my favorite SF author of the moment is Alastair Reynolds.)
James Nicoll
Thomas H. Faller <fal...@sgi.com> wrote:
>James Nicoll wrote:
>
eccentricity as a defense mechanism
>> E.g. Dave Sim, post-divorce.
>
>Ah-ha. Saw the symptoms, now the diagnosis makes sense. Any idea
>WTF he was shooting for with Issue 300?
No idea. Lept from that particular flaming wagon ages ago.
Did you see the Onion interview (For newcomers: not a parody.
That really is Sim talking and not a horrible joke on the part of the
Onion:
http://www.theonionavclub.com/feature/index.php?issue4013&f=1
I think. For what it is worth, -in person- Sim is polite and friendly,
even to sucking voids.
As I recall, Sim's cosmological views might be on topic here,
if only recall extended to remembering what they were.
John Harshman
Thomas H. Faller wrote:
I have to say that I lost interest shortly after the divorce, though I'm
not sure I connected the two events. He actually made it to 300? I
preferred the earlier, funny issues.
David Cowie
> In article <8HRYj8Ci...@from.is.invalid>,
> GSV Three Minds in a Can <G...@quik.clara.co.uk> wrote:
>> [quoted text muted]
>
> Whoa!
>
> Unless I'm totally misremembering there was a Space Lesbian as a main
> character. In fact, she came from a whole colony of Space Lesbians.
> (Whom generations of dirtsiders had been playing a bad joke on by
> sending up sperm from shorter and shorter men as the years went by..)
>
You forgot to mention that she was a witch.
Varley's _Titan_ gives us two Space Lesbians and two Space Bisexuals.
SB's: Cirocco and the witch (Robin, IIRC)
SL's: Gaby and Nova (Robin's daughter)
Any advance on four?
--
David Cowie david_cowie at lineone dot net
Containment Failure + 5787:10
Lieutenant Kizhe Katson
> > dear friend RoadRunner would be an example). Basically, anything
> > which forms the current consensus or "official" story is to be treated
> > with hyper-skepticism, even ridicule, while the most bizarre and
> > evidence-free alternatives are to be taken completely seriously.
>
> So I guess the rule is "doubt in proportion to the evidence"? :-)
At the risk of belaboring the point: the rule would seem to be "doubt
in proportion to the cultural status of the idea". Thus (within
science) evolution has high status, as does "HIV causes AIDS", while
Velikovsky has low status (and in history, the Holocaust being real
has high status). In practice, of course, the results come out
roughly the same as what you said.
Cynically, when the contrarian is an established writer who knows that
there is always a good market for works of (pseudo-)skeptical
controversy......
-- Kizhé
Bob Casanova
appeared in talk.origins, posted by lt_k...@yahoo.ca
(Lieutenant Kizhe Katson):
>AC <mightym...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<slrncf1b1t.107....@mp1.alberni.net>...
>> On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 02:21:25 +0000 (UTC),
>> Lieutenant Kizhe Katson <lt_k...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> > Matt Silberstein <matts2...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<e6s0f01r8vbfutb4p...@4ax.com>...
>> >> On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 21:34:26 +0000 (UTC), Patrick James
>> >> <patj...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > [snip some intervening posts, and Pat's pretty good summary of Hogan's
>> > _oeuvre_]
>> >
>> >> Any of that worth supporting a Holocaust denier?
>> >
>> > Hadn't heard about the Irving/Revisionist angle on Hogan. Yikes --
>> > the guy has totally flipped! Or maybe it's just part of a general
>> > "everything we know is wrong" kick (we all know a few folks like
>> > that). Got any URLs that go into more detail?
>> >
>> > Anyways: no, likely not worth financially supporting someone you find
>> > that objectionable. But if you can ignore the association, definitely
>> > worth ransacking second-hand book-shops for.
>>
>> I suspect that he is a pseudo-skeptic, who seem to feel comfortable
>> questioning even things for which there is an overwhelming amount of
>> evidence. Such people, oddly enough, will accept the most idiotic things,
>> while rejecting historical facts or well-supported scientific theories.
>
>I think the term "contrarian pseudo-skeptic" covers the bases (our
>dear friend RoadRunner would be an example). Basically, anything
>which forms the current consensus or "official" story is to be treated
>with hyper-skepticism, even ridicule, while the most bizarre and
>evidence-free alternatives are to be taken completely seriously.
>After all, the fact that something is accepted by The Establishment is
>just evidence that it serves their vested interests, right?
I think you may be on to something there. "As-yet-unvested
interests", of course, are pure and noble...
--
Bob C.
Reply to Bob-Casanova @ worldnet.att.net
(without the spaces, of course)
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"
- Isaac Asimov
Bob Casanova
appeared in talk.origins, posted by Pithecanthropus Erectus
<tuibguy1cr...@earthlink.net>:
>MurphyInOhio wrote:
>
>>>Please -- MiO can't hold a candle to Holden. What has MiO given us
>>>to compare with flux tubes to Saturn, the felt effect of gravity, and
>>>flying feral chickens? Holden is a genuine loon; MiO is just some
>>>annoying guy you knew in eigth grade.
>>>Steve
>>
>>
>> I am a skeptic of evolution. That places me at the flash point of evolutionist
>> bitterness and their (ineffectual) attempts at smearing me. I brush aside the
>> evolutionists as I would maggots from the rotting corpse of evolution to expose
>> the corruption.
>>
>
>You are not a skeptic, real skeptics do some groundwork and actually
>know what they are trying to refute. It is quite possible that you are
>skeptical, but you are displaying all of the features of an
>evolution-denier. An ignorant one at that.
....or a particularly stupid troll. But as Mark Twain stated,
I repeat myself.
Mitchell Coffey
(John Wilkins) wrote:
>Mitchell Coffey <mdotcoffeyats...@hunter.news.rcn.net> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 23:50:24 +0000 (UTC), john...@wilkins.id.au
>> (John Wilkins) wrote:
>>
>> >Matt Silberstein <matts2...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 21:56:25 +0000 (UTC), Steve Schaffner
>> >> <s...@darwin.broad.mit.edu> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> [snip]
>> >>
>> >> >Please -- MiO can't hold a candle to Holden. What has MiO given us
>> >> >to compare with flux tubes to Saturn, the felt effect of gravity, and
>> >> >flying feral chickens? Holden is a genuine loon; MiO is just some
>> >> >annoying guy you knew in eigth grade.
>> >>
>> >> I always figured that most t.o regulars were the ones others
>> >> considered that annoying guy in 8th grade.
>> >>
>> >I was considered annoying in 5th grade...
>>
>> You're one of them slow starters, eh?
>>
>Not at all - I just had slow classmates.
Me, can't remember a time I weren't annoying. Been annoying 'slong as
I remember. Annoying I have been. Long time. Annoying.
So annoying that... well Sir, let be tell about that. Now you know,
pretty nearly every American beyond a certain age can tell you where
he or she was when JFK was shot. I certainly can. Well, sure, I just
said everyone my age can, but with me it's for a special reason:
although I were only ten at the time, it's a fact suspicion always
falls on the annoying kid, so I had to established an alibi early.
Mitchell Coffey
__________________________________
Old age and treachery,
Always overcomes youth and skill.
- Max D. Barnes, Willie Nelson,
Troy Seals & Waylon Jennings
Brandon
David Cowie wrote:
>
> Varley's _Titan_ gives us two Space Lesbians and two Space Bisexuals.
> SB's: Cirocco and the witch (Robin, IIRC)
> SL's: Gaby and Nova (Robin's daughter)
> Any advance on four?
In any novel by RAH, starting with IWFNE, it can be reliably
assumed that all major female characters and many of the
males are bisexual.
e...@drizzle.com
> I read LeGuin's _The Disposessed_ at about the same time, and found
> that a much richer (in the artistic sense!) and more believable
> anarchist society.
While LeGuin's a better writer, she's a terrible scientist.
They had cheap interplanetary travel, and a planetary drought. A couple
of small comets properly dropped across the atmosphere and drought
problem solved.
Suspension of disbelief is hard to maintain when a crisis hinges
on someone not throwing a switch clearly visible to everyone.
Elf
Thomas H. Faller
He actually made it to 300, although it's difficult to say that the last 150
had anything to do with the first 150. At some point, he decided there were
stories that needed to be told more than Cerebus, so he added dramatizations
of Oscar Wilde, Hemmingway, F. Scott Fitzgerald, the various Stooges
and more, instead of going anywhere with the real story. Virtually
every plot element and character from the first half ended up in limbo.
The final issues became baroque, with drawing and lettering taking all
the emphasis over moving a story forward.
Meanwhile, the editorial part of each issue grew, and became more bizarre
with each issue. I don't see him being able to explain either text or comics
in any rational frame of reference from here on, so we're left guessing what
Sim was trying to say with the end of #300. Too bad. It was a good run for
a lot of years.
Tom Faller
Matt Silberstein
<mdotcoffeyats...@hunter.news.rcn.net> wrote:
<sputter>
Good think I was not drinking anything particularly harsh at that
moment. I saw a punch line coming, but not that one, not at all.
Joseph Eros
> _Titan_ was pretty bad and _Silverhair_ even worse (1). _Titan_
> is riddled with implausible politics (2), and cranky oldguy 'Kids All
> Suck' isms.
Calling _Titan_ "pretty bad" is understatement of Hirohitian
proportion [3]. I made it all the way through, I admit, but mostly
because I kept thinking, "No book could stay this bad. It _has_ to
get better." It never did.
No way will I go near _Silverhair_, or even look at the cover if I can
avoid it.
[3] Emperor Hirohito, in his surrender address of August 14, 1945,
said that "the war situation has developed not necessarily to Japan's
advantage".
---
Joseph Eros
"Scientists want to know the dirt on Eros" --Boston Globe
John Wilkins
I have no alibi...
--
John Wilkins, 9 year old hitman...
john...@wilkins.id.au http://wilkins.id.au
"Men mark it when they hit, but do not mark it when they miss"
- Francis Bacon
Thomas H. Faller
Which Heinlein novel starts "I Was Finally Nooging Everyone.."?
TEFL was close..
Tom Faller
Bill Snyder
Are we talking about what's on paper, or what RAH was doing to his
fans when he wrote them?
--
Bill Snyder [This space unintentionally left blank.]
MurphyInOhio
>evolutionist
>> bitterness and their (ineffectual) attempts at smearing me. I brush aside
>the
>> evolutionists as I would maggots from the rotting corpse of evolution to
>expose
>> the corruption.
>
>You are not a skeptic, real skeptics do some groundwork and actually
>know what they are trying to refute.
Admittedly my meagre science degrees were little preparation for the study of
evolution. But, I have devoured thousands of science journals and most all
evolution authors and researchers the past century or so. And, I enjoy popular
magazine articles and books on the subject. But of course this mere overview
can hardly place me at the High Table with the likes of you, tubguy. I seek for
morsels of greater evolutionary erudition at the elbow of scholars such as are
found here, and am grateful for any crumbs that may fall to me.
Pithecanthropus Erectus
You really, truly have science degrees? Pardon me, I shall start
licking your feet now. Pray tell us where the degrees are from and in
what field.
And, BTW, it is "tuibguy" which is pretty simple. But I prefer to be
known as Pithecanthropus Erectus here.
Off to pour some Java, man.