How did 60ft Pteradactyl fly?

[backspace]

http://s8int.com/mega1.html
http://www.bearfabrique.org/Catastrophism/sauropods/biganims.html

The Problem With Mega Fauna

Some scientists have identified a serious problem with the larger Mega
Fauna (mega fauna are animals weighing more than 100 pounds). From
what we know about gravity and muscle strength, the bird with the 30
ft wingspan for example should not have been able to get off the
ground.

Yet, it was not a flightless bird. Another animal that could fly, the
Pteradactyl and its cousins had wingspreads of up to nearly 60 feet.
Although the wings folded, what did they do with them while on the
ground?

The very largest birds today who weigh just a fraction of what that
bird weighed, and they get into the air with some difficulty. Other
animals, particularly the very large dinosaurs should have had quite a
bit of trouble moving those vast amounts of weight around.

The larger elephants living today seem to be almost at the extreme of
supportable body weight versus muscle strength, yet many of the
dinosaurs weighed many times more.

The Hornless rhino, pictured above was almost eighteen feet high and
27 feet long. It was probably by far the biggest mammal ever. How did
its legs support that kind of weight? How could an animal that big be
strong enough to get up once it had laid down?

I'm not endorsing his solution to this problem, but some interesting
ideas have been put forth in; The Attenuated Gravity of the Antique
System, by Ted Holden

[Burkhard]

On Jan 31, 6:44 pm, backspace <stephan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://s8int.com/mega1.htmlhttp://www.bearfabrique.org/Catastrophism/sauropods/biganims.html

>
> The Problem With Mega Fauna
>
> Some scientists have identified a serious problem with the larger Mega
> Fauna (mega fauna are animals weighing more than 100 pounds). From
> what we know about gravity and muscle strength, the bird with the 30
> ft wingspan for example should not have been able to get off the
> ground.

Och aye, my colleagues figured out how about 40 years ago.
see W. B. Heptonstall: An analysis of the flight of the Cretaceous
pterodactyl Pteranodon ingens.
Scottish Journal of Geology, 1971 7, 61-78.

[Paul Ciszek]

In article <ddc8057c-e724-4d54...@b18g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>,

backspace <steph...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>I'm not endorsing his solution to this problem, but some interesting
>ideas have been put forth in; The Attenuated Gravity of the Antique
>System, by Ted Holden

Heh. _End of an Era_ by Robert J. Sawyer uses that plot device. A
couple of paleontologists take a time machine back to the end of the
Cretaceous. It turns out that what killed off the dinosaurs was the
paleontologists shutting down the gravity-reducing satellites that
the Martians had been using to try to make the Earth habitable.

--
"Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS
crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in
TARP money, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in
bonuses, and paid no taxes? Yeah, me neither."

[John Harshman]

Hey, look, everybody! It's the felt effect of gravity!

[John S. Wilkins]

Paul Ciszek <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:

> backspace <steph...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >I'm not endorsing his solution to this problem, but some interesting
> >ideas have been put forth in; The Attenuated Gravity of the Antique
> >System, by Ted Holden
>
> Heh. _End of an Era_ by Robert J. Sawyer uses that plot device. A
> couple of paleontologists take a time machine back to the end of the
> Cretaceous. It turns out that what killed off the dinosaurs was the
> paleontologists shutting down the gravity-reducing satellites that
> the Martians had been using to try to make the Earth habitable.

Silly Martians. Much easier to modify developmental systems such as bone
desnity growth than to try to modify physics.
--
John S. Wilkins, Associate, Philosophy, University of Sydney
http://evolvingthoughts.net
But al be that he was a philosophre,
Yet hadde he but litel gold in cofre

[Walter Bushell]

In article <1kes5x2.5dk6j21brk2q9N%jo...@wilkins.id.au>,

jo...@wilkins.id.au (John S. Wilkins) wrote:

> Paul Ciszek <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> > backspace <steph...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >I'm not endorsing his solution to this problem, but some interesting
> > >ideas have been put forth in; The Attenuated Gravity of the Antique
> > >System, by Ted Holden
> >
> > Heh. _End of an Era_ by Robert J. Sawyer uses that plot device. A
> > couple of paleontologists take a time machine back to the end of the
> > Cretaceous. It turns out that what killed off the dinosaurs was the
> > paleontologists shutting down the gravity-reducing satellites that
> > the Martians had been using to try to make the Earth habitable.
>
> Silly Martians. Much easier to modify developmental systems such as bone
> desnity growth than to try to modify physics.

That's easy for you to say. How much do you know about Martian
technology? Perhaps the Martian were trying to make the Earth habitable
for themselves?

--
It is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant
and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting. -- H. L. Mencken

[Paul J Gans]

Now you've gone and done it. Ted Holden worked up that theory
right here in good ol' talk.origins. He had a number of notions,
one of which is that elephants could not stand on their rear legs,
in spite of the fact that many of us have seen them do just that.
In fact I'm not sure they could reproduce were it otherwise.

Let me give you a bit of a clue about your points above: you
base them on assumptions. If indeed the largest "winged"
dinosaurs did fly, then the assumption is wrong. Do not assume
that present birds have necessarily found the most efficient
solution. Even we flabby humans can do it. See

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human-powered_aircraft

--
--- Paul J. Gans

[Paul Ciszek]

In article <proto-C27026....@news.panix.com>,

Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <1kes5x2.5dk6j21brk2q9N%jo...@wilkins.id.au>,
> jo...@wilkins.id.au (John S. Wilkins) wrote:
>
>> Paul Ciszek <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>> > backspace <steph...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >I'm not endorsing his solution to this problem, but some interesting
>> > >ideas have been put forth in; The Attenuated Gravity of the Antique
>> > >System, by Ted Holden
>> >
>> > Heh. _End of an Era_ by Robert J. Sawyer uses that plot device. A
>> > couple of paleontologists take a time machine back to the end of the
>> > Cretaceous. It turns out that what killed off the dinosaurs was the
>> > paleontologists shutting down the gravity-reducing satellites that
>> > the Martians had been using to try to make the Earth habitable.
>>
>> Silly Martians. Much easier to modify developmental systems such as bone
>> desnity growth than to try to modify physics.
>
>That's easy for you to say. How much do you know about Martian
>technology? Perhaps the Martian were trying to make the Earth habitable
>for themselves?

Yes.

[Mark Isaak]

Maybe they don't. If stegosauruses can thrive without reproducing,
surely elephants can, too.

--
Mark Isaak eciton (at) curioustaxonomy (dot) net
"It is certain, from experience, that the smallest grain of natural
honesty and benevolence has more effect on men's conduct, than the most
pompous views suggested by theological theories and systems." - D. Hume

[Ron O]

On Jan 31, 8:13 pm, Paul J Gans <gan...@panix.com> wrote:

I started reading TO around 1993. Holden's "felt effect of gravity"
was one of the more interesting notions floating around back then, and
about the only reason that I remember it. Maybe the pteradactyls
could only fly when the moon was directly above and in line with the
sun during a total eclipse? The effect of earth's gravity would be
felt less at that point. If they ever landed they would have to wait
for the next eclipse to take off again.

Ron Okimoto

[Steven L.]

"Mark Isaak" <eci...@curioustaxonomyNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:jgaj09$ooj$1...@speranza.aioe.org:

Stegosaurus may have reproduced without mating.

The feminist Stegosauruses employed in vitro fertilization from
anonymous donors, and laid their eggs as single-parent nests.



-- Steven L.

[Walter Bushell]

In article <jgaj09$ooj$1...@speranza.aioe.org>,
Mark Isaak <eci...@curioustaxonomyNOSPAM.net> wrote:
<SNIP>

>
> Maybe they don't. If stegosauruses can thrive without reproducing,
> surely elephants can, too.

A logically correct inference.

[Nick Keighley]

On Jan 31, 6:44 pm, backspace <stephan...@gmail.com> wrote:

> http://s8int.com/mega1.htmlhttp://www.bearfabrique.org/Catastrophism/sauropods/biganims.html

>
> The Problem With Mega Fauna
>
> Some scientists have identified a serious problem with the larger Mega
> Fauna (mega fauna are animals weighing more than 100 pounds). From
> what we know about gravity and muscle strength, the bird with the 30
> ft wingspan for example should not have been able to get off the
> ground.
>
> Yet, it was not a flightless bird. Another animal that could fly, the
> Pteradactyl and its cousins had wingspreads of up to nearly 60 feet.
> Although the wings folded, what did they do with them while on the
> ground?
>
> The very largest birds today who weigh just a fraction of what that
> bird weighed, and they get into the air with some difficulty. Other
> animals, particularly the very large dinosaurs should have had quite a
> bit of trouble moving those vast amounts of weight around.
>
> The larger elephants living today seem to be almost at the extreme of
> supportable body weight versus muscle strength, yet many of the
> dinosaurs weighed many times more.

apparently not. I read an article (I think in New Scientist) that the
thing that limits mammal size is chewing. It takes a lot of time and
energy and works fine for smaller animals but is a waste of time if
you're just a great big walking fermentation tank. So to be really
big, ignore your parents and bolt your food.

> The Hornless rhino, pictured above was almost eighteen feet high and
> 27 feet long. It was probably by far the biggest mammal ever.

bigger than a Blue Whale?

> How did
> its legs support that kind of weight? How could an animal that big be
> strong enough to get up once it had laid down?
>
> I'm not endorsing his solution to this problem, but some interesting
> ideas have been put forth in; The Attenuated Gravity of the Antique
> System, by Ted Holden

!

[Burkhard]

On Feb 1, 1:06 pm, "Steven L." <sdlit...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> "Mark Isaak" <eci...@curioustaxonomyNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
>
> news:jgaj09$ooj$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 1/31/12 6:13 PM, Paul J Gans wrote:

> > > backspace<stephan...@gmail.com>  wrote:

Maybe not the dinos themselves - didn't adman claim that the
Sumerians where space aliens that dabbled in IVF?

[Richard Clayton]

On 31-Jan-12 5:59 PM, John S. Wilkins wrote:
> Paul Ciszek<nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> backspace<steph...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm not endorsing his solution to this problem, but some interesting
>>> ideas have been put forth in; The Attenuated Gravity of the Antique
>>> System, by Ted Holden
>>
>> Heh. _End of an Era_ by Robert J. Sawyer uses that plot device. A
>> couple of paleontologists take a time machine back to the end of the
>> Cretaceous. It turns out that what killed off the dinosaurs was the
>> paleontologists shutting down the gravity-reducing satellites that
>> the Martians had been using to try to make the Earth habitable.
>
> Silly Martians. Much easier to modify developmental systems such as bone
> desnity growth than to try to modify physics.

Clearly the Martians, like many technologically advanced alien species,
preferred simplistic brute-force solutions and did not balk at building
megastructures or even playing hob with the laws of physics. (Compare
the Pak, who built the Ringworld rather than just invent family planning.)

--
[The address listed is a spam trap. To reply, take off every zig.]
Richard Clayton
"I keep six honest serving men (they taught me all I knew); their names
are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who." — Rudyard Kipling

[Bob Casanova]

On Wed, 1 Feb 2012 02:13:55 +0000 (UTC), the following
appeared in talk.origins, posted by Paul J Gans
<gan...@panix.com>:

"Flying feral chickens", for instance.

>one of which is that elephants could not stand on their rear legs,
>in spite of the fact that many of us have seen them do just that.
>In fact I'm not sure they could reproduce were it otherwise.

I actually saw an elephant on his hind legs attempting
to...ummm..."romance" a female elephant, in the zoo in DC,
when I was about 12 or 13. Two things have stuck in my
memory all these years - a sense of inferiority and a new
appreciation for the meaning of "prehensile".

>Let me give you a bit of a clue about your points above: you
>base them on assumptions. If indeed the largest "winged"
>dinosaurs did fly, then the assumption is wrong. Do not assume
>that present birds have necessarily found the most efficient
>solution. Even we flabby humans can do it. See
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human-powered_aircraft
--

Bob C.

"Evidence confirming an observation is
evidence that the observation is wrong."
- McNameless

[Bob Casanova]

On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 10:22:07 -0500, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by Richard Clayton
<richZIG.e....@gmail.com>:

>On 31-Jan-12 5:59 PM, John S. Wilkins wrote:
>> Paul Ciszek<nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>> backspace<steph...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm not endorsing his solution to this problem, but some interesting
>>>> ideas have been put forth in; The Attenuated Gravity of the Antique
>>>> System, by Ted Holden
>>>
>>> Heh. _End of an Era_ by Robert J. Sawyer uses that plot device. A
>>> couple of paleontologists take a time machine back to the end of the
>>> Cretaceous. It turns out that what killed off the dinosaurs was the
>>> paleontologists shutting down the gravity-reducing satellites that
>>> the Martians had been using to try to make the Earth habitable.
>>
>> Silly Martians. Much easier to modify developmental systems such as bone
>> desnity growth than to try to modify physics.
>
>Clearly the Martians, like many technologically advanced alien species,
>preferred simplistic brute-force solutions and did not balk at building
>megastructures or even playing hob with the laws of physics. (Compare
>the Pak, who built the Ringworld rather than just invent family planning.)

You may be thinking of the Moties; the Paks' issue wasn't
family planning (they seemed to regulate their population
fairly well, even though the method was a bit harsh), but
coexistence with other families.

[Bob Casanova]

On Tue, 31 Jan 2012 13:05:46 -0800, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by John Harshman
<jhar...@pacbell.net>:

I miss Ted; he qualified as a loon, but an amiable one.

[Richard Clayton]

Nope, I meant the Pak. And I suppose you're right; they did control
their population through constant multiple wars of genocide. Call me
crazy, but I have to think the Pill would have been safer and easier for
all concerned.

Moties did regulate their population growth as well, and weren't really
any different in terms of method: Expand until you're well over the
environment's carrying capacity, then kill yourselves until you're well
under it again. (It remains to be seen whether H. sapiens will rely on
this technique as well.)

[Vend]

On 1 Feb, 14:06, "Steven L." <sdlit...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> "Mark Isaak" <eci...@curioustaxonomyNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
>
> news:jgaj09$ooj$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 1/31/12 6:13 PM, Paul J Gans wrote:

> > > backspace<stephan...@gmail.com>  wrote:

Nope, they were all parthenogenic lesbian couples.
When they finally allowed single-parent nests, it destroyed the fabric
of the Stegosaurean society and they all went extinct.

[John S. Wilkins]

Richard Clayton <richZIG.e....@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 31-Jan-12 5:59 PM, John S. Wilkins wrote:
> > Paul Ciszek<nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >
> >> backspace<steph...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I'm not endorsing his solution to this problem, but some interesting
> >>> ideas have been put forth in; The Attenuated Gravity of the Antique
> >>> System, by Ted Holden
> >>
> >> Heh. _End of an Era_ by Robert J. Sawyer uses that plot device. A
> >> couple of paleontologists take a time machine back to the end of the
> >> Cretaceous. It turns out that what killed off the dinosaurs was the
> >> paleontologists shutting down the gravity-reducing satellites that
> >> the Martians had been using to try to make the Earth habitable.
> >
> > Silly Martians. Much easier to modify developmental systems such as bone
> > desnity growth than to try to modify physics.
>
> Clearly the Martians, like many technologically advanced alien species,
> preferred simplistic brute-force solutions and did not balk at building
> megastructures or even playing hob with the laws of physics. (Compare
> the Pak, who built the Ringworld rather than just invent family planning.)

One of the Martians, a now extinct race, is supposed to have said "We
make our own reality now. While you critics just study what we do, we go
ahead and make the world do what we want."

[Walter Bushell]

In article <1ketv2m.19hx3mb9rnoziN%jo...@wilkins.id.au>,

jo...@wilkins.id.au (John S. Wilkins) wrote:

> Richard Clayton <richZIG.e....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 31-Jan-12 5:59 PM, John S. Wilkins wrote:
> > > Paul Ciszek<nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> backspace<steph...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> I'm not endorsing his solution to this problem, but some interesting
> > >>> ideas have been put forth in; The Attenuated Gravity of the Antique
> > >>> System, by Ted Holden
> > >>
> > >> Heh. _End of an Era_ by Robert J. Sawyer uses that plot device. A
> > >> couple of paleontologists take a time machine back to the end of the
> > >> Cretaceous. It turns out that what killed off the dinosaurs was the
> > >> paleontologists shutting down the gravity-reducing satellites that
> > >> the Martians had been using to try to make the Earth habitable.
> > >
> > > Silly Martians. Much easier to modify developmental systems such as bone
> > > desnity growth than to try to modify physics.
> >
> > Clearly the Martians, like many technologically advanced alien species,
> > preferred simplistic brute-force solutions and did not balk at building
> > megastructures or even playing hob with the laws of physics. (Compare
> > the Pak, who built the Ringworld rather than just invent family planning.)
>
> One of the Martians, a now extinct race, is supposed to have said "We
> make our own reality now. While you critics just study what we do, we go
> ahead and make the world do what we want."

I thought that started with "We are an Empire now,".

[Paul J Gans]

Point taken, though I have seen what was purported to be elephant
spawn but which was probably only a species of small elephants.

[Michael Siemon]

In article <1ketv2m.19hx3mb9rnoziN%jo...@wilkins.id.au>,
jo...@wilkins.id.au (John S. Wilkins) wrote:

> Richard Clayton <richZIG.e....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 31-Jan-12 5:59 PM, John S. Wilkins wrote:
> > > Paul Ciszek<nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> backspace<steph...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> I'm not endorsing his solution to this problem, but some interesting
> > >>> ideas have been put forth in; The Attenuated Gravity of the Antique
> > >>> System, by Ted Holden
> > >>
> > >> Heh. _End of an Era_ by Robert J. Sawyer uses that plot device. A
> > >> couple of paleontologists take a time machine back to the end of the
> > >> Cretaceous. It turns out that what killed off the dinosaurs was the
> > >> paleontologists shutting down the gravity-reducing satellites that
> > >> the Martians had been using to try to make the Earth habitable.
> > >
> > > Silly Martians. Much easier to modify developmental systems such as bone
> > > desnity growth than to try to modify physics.
> >
> > Clearly the Martians, like many technologically advanced alien species,
> > preferred simplistic brute-force solutions and did not balk at building
> > megastructures or even playing hob with the laws of physics. (Compare
> > the Pak, who built the Ringworld rather than just invent family planning.)
>
> One of the Martians, a now extinct race, is supposed to have said "We
> make our own reality now. While you critics just study what we do, we go
> ahead and make the world do what we want."

Problem is, that bunch of Martians seems to have been ecologically
replaced by an even more out-of-contact-with-reality new population...

[Paul J Gans]

Elephants on two legs can regularly be observed in circuses.

And all they are doing is standing around. At least I *think*
that was all they were doing...

[dali_70]

On Feb 1, 10:38 pm, Paul J Gans <gan...@panix.com> wrote:

> Elephants on two legs can regularly be observed in circuses.

Yes, they have to flap their ears really really hard to help lift them
up on two legs. Mating must be exhausting with all the ear flapping
and humping going on.

[Paul J Gans]

You mean homo mythos, for whom no tale, no matter how fanciful, was
beneath belief?

[Paul J Gans]

I've never tried ear flapping. Thank you! One learns something new
every day!

[Bob Casanova]

On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 14:32:42 -0500, the following appeared

Probably, but overpopulation per se wasn't the problem for
them it was for the Moties. I think of the Pak as the
Hatfields & McCoys of the galaxy.

>Moties did regulate their population growth as well, and weren't really
>any different in terms of method: Expand until you're well over the
>environment's carrying capacity, then kill yourselves until you're well
>under it again.

Correct, but in the case of the Moties it was directly
driven by biology - get pregnant or die; change gender;
repeat. I think the Pak would have been satisfied with a
secure constant population for each clan (although expansion
of territory was mentioned as a motive, I suspect that it
was basically a defensive reaction against the *other*
clans' expansion). And of course, given the nature of Pak
Protectors it's the "secure" part that kept tripping them
up...

> (It remains to be seen whether H. sapiens will rely on
>this technique as well.)

So far we've kept it (sort of) within bounds.

[Bob Casanova]

On Thu, 2 Feb 2012 03:38:38 +0000 (UTC), the following

Sure, but it was the reproduction angle I was addressing.

>And all they are doing is standing around. At least I *think*
>that was all they were doing...

If you saw them from the side you'd have no doubts. ;-)

[Paul J Gans]

45 degrees?

>>And all they are doing is standing around. At least I *think*
>>that was all they were doing...

>If you saw them from the side you'd have no doubts. ;-)

You've outed me. I'm an elephant voyer!

[John Vreeland]

Barring the existence of some hypothetical ancient monster jellyfish
species, the Blue Whale is the largest animal that has ever lived.
Some fungi and plants are larger.

>
>> How did
>> its legs support that kind of weight? How could an animal that big be
>> strong enough to get up once it had laid down?
>>
>> I'm not endorsing his solution to this problem, but some interesting
>> ideas have been put forth in; The Attenuated Gravity of the Antique
>> System, by Ted Holden
>
>!
>

--
Some aspects of life would be a lot easier if Creationists were required to carry warning signs. Fortunately, many of them already do.

[Burkhard]

On Feb 2, 6:46 pm, Paul J Gans <gan...@panix.com> wrote:
> Bob Casanova <nos...@buzz.off> wrote:
> >On Thu, 2 Feb 2012 03:38:38 +0000 (UTC), the following
> >appeared in talk.origins, posted by Paul J Gans
> ><gan...@panix.com>:
> >>Bob Casanova <nos...@buzz.off> wrote:
> >>>On Wed, 1 Feb 2012 02:13:55 +0000 (UTC), the following
> >>>appeared in talk.origins, posted by Paul J Gans
> >>><gan...@panix.com>:
>

then this is just for you
http://www.clickhere.gr/pictures/images/pics/asugkratitos.jpg

[chris thompson]

On Feb 2, 5:02 pm, John Vreeland <john.vreel...@ieee.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 1 Feb 2012 06:43:43 -0800 (PST), Nick Keighley
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <nick_keighley_nos...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >On Jan 31, 6:44 pm, backspace <stephan...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >>http://s8int.com/mega1.htmlhttp://www.bearfabrique.org/Catastrophism/...

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=strange-but-true-largest-organism-is-fungus

Chris

[Walter Bushell]

In article <gr1mi7p7mnh497jah...@4ax.com>,

John Vreeland <john.v...@ieee.org> wrote:

> Some aspects of life would be a lot easier if Creationists were required to
> carry warning signs. Fortunately, many of them already do.

Would you like to mark them with a yellow star or perhaps a pink
triangle?

[Paul J Gans]

That's me! Right there! And is that a satisfied grin I see
on the face of the male?

[Walter Bushell]

In article <jgflhs$1hs$2...@reader1.panix.com>,

Paul J Gans <gan...@panix.com> wrote:

> Burkhard <b.sc...@ed.ac.uk> wrote:


> >then this is just for you
> >http://www.clickhere.gr/pictures/images/pics/asugkratitos.jpg
>
> That's me! Right there! And is that a satisfied grin I see
> on the face of the male?

Why does a bull elephant have 4 feet?

Because 4 inches would be ineffective.

[J.J. O'Shea]

On Thu, 2 Feb 2012 19:13:33 -0500, Walter Bushell wrote
(in article <proto-C8344A....@news.panix.com>):

> In article <gr1mi7p7mnh497jah...@4ax.com>,
> John Vreeland <john.v...@ieee.org> wrote:
>
>> Some aspects of life would be a lot easier if Creationists were required to
>> carry warning signs. Fortunately, many of them already do.
>
> Would you like to mark them with a yellow star or perhaps a pink
> triangle?
>
>

No. More of a brown blob.

--
email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com.

[Mark Isaak]

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=274368745963991&set=a.154959581238242.39829.152196238181243&type=1

--
Mark Isaak eciton (at) curioustaxonomy (dot) net
"It is certain, from experience, that the smallest grain of natural
honesty and benevolence has more effect on men's conduct, than the most
pompous views suggested by theological theories and systems." - D. Hume

[Bob Casanova]

On Thu, 2 Feb 2012 18:46:04 +0000 (UTC), the following

Close; you're getting warmer.

>>>And all they are doing is standing around. At least I *think*
>>>that was all they were doing...
>
>>If you saw them from the side you'd have no doubts. ;-)
>
>You've outed me. I'm an elephant voyer!

Staring in disbelieving awe doesn't usually count as
voyeurism... ;-)

[Bob Casanova]

On Thu, 02 Feb 2012 19:13:33 -0500, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com>:

>In article <gr1mi7p7mnh497jah...@4ax.com>,
> John Vreeland <john.v...@ieee.org> wrote:
>
>> Some aspects of life would be a lot easier if Creationists were required to
>> carry warning signs. Fortunately, many of them already do.
>
>Would you like to mark them with a yellow star or perhaps a pink
>triangle?

Nope; a cartoon of an open mouth and an empty speech balloon
would be sufficient.

[Mark Isaak]

On 2/2/12 2:02 PM, John Vreeland wrote:
> On Wed, 1 Feb 2012 06:43:43 -0800 (PST), Nick Keighley
> <nick_keigh...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> [...]

>>> The Hornless rhino, pictured above was almost eighteen feet high and
>>> 27 feet long. It was probably by far the biggest mammal ever.
>>
>> bigger than a Blue Whale?
>
> Barring the existence of some hypothetical ancient monster jellyfish
> species, the Blue Whale is the largest animal that has ever lived.
> Some fungi and plants are larger.

Not in blue whale range, but awesome anyway:
http://thescuttlefish.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/lions-mane-jelly.jpg

[Paul J Gans]

I am reprieved!

[AGWFacts]

On Tue, 31 Jan 2012 10:44:35 -0800 (PST), backspace

<steph...@gmail.com> wrote:

> http://s8int.com/mega1.html
> http://www.bearfabrique.org/Catastrophism/sauropods/biganims.html
>

> Some scientists have identified a serious problem with the larger Mega
> Fauna (mega fauna are animals weighing more than 100 pounds). From
> what we know about gravity and muscle strength, the bird with the 30
> ft wingspan for example should not have been able to get off the
> ground.
>
> Yet, it was not a flightless bird.

So what, the bird flew on the ground?


--
"I'd like the globe to warm another degree or two or three... and CO2 levels
to increase perhaps another 100ppm - 300ppm." -- cato...@sympatico.ca

[AGWFacts]

On Tue, 31 Jan 2012 13:05:46 -0800, John Harshman
<jhar...@pacbell.net> wrote:

> backspace wrote:
> > http://s8int.com/mega1.html
> > http://www.bearfabrique.org/Catastrophism/sauropods/biganims.html
> >

> > The Problem With Mega Fauna
> >

> > Some scientists have identified a serious problem with the larger Mega
> > Fauna (mega fauna are animals weighing more than 100 pounds). From
> > what we know about gravity and muscle strength, the bird with the 30
> > ft wingspan for example should not have been able to get off the
> > ground.
> >

> > Yet, it was not a flightless bird. Another animal that could fly, the
> > Pteradactyl and its cousins had wingspreads of up to nearly 60 feet.
> > Although the wings folded, what did they do with them while on the
> > ground?
> >
> > The very largest birds today who weigh just a fraction of what that
> > bird weighed, and they get into the air with some difficulty. Other
> > animals, particularly the very large dinosaurs should have had quite a
> > bit of trouble moving those vast amounts of weight around.
> >
> > The larger elephants living today seem to be almost at the extreme of
> > supportable body weight versus muscle strength, yet many of the
> > dinosaurs weighed many times more.
> >
> > The Hornless rhino, pictured above was almost eighteen feet high and
> > 27 feet long. It was probably by far the biggest mammal ever. How did
> > its legs support that kind of weight? How could an animal that big be
> > strong enough to get up once it had laid down?
> >
> > I'm not endorsing his solution to this problem, but some interesting
> > ideas have been put forth in; The Attenuated Gravity of the Antique
> > System, by Ted Holden
> >

> Hey, look, everybody! It's the felt effect of gravity!

Reduced.

[Ron O]

Redefined.

We are talking about Backspace.

>
> --
> "I'd like the globe to warm another degree or two or three...  and CO2 levels

> to increase perhaps another 100ppm - 300ppm." -- caton...@sympatico.ca

[Darwin123]

On Feb 1, 2:32 pm, Richard Clayton

> Nope, I meant the Pak. And I suppose you're right; they did control
> their population through constant multiple wars of genocide. Call me
> crazy, but I have to think the Pill would have been safer and easier for
> all concerned.

The Pill plus perfume.
An adult Pak has an instinctual drive to maximize the reproduction
of whatever animal smells like himself. This is a form of kin
selection. The greater the relatedness, the more similar the smells.
In the novel "Protector" by Larry Niven, the unseen narrator
states that if perfume would have changed Pak evolution. Obviously,
because perfume would have enabled a Pak to chose the one he was
compelled to protect. A Pak could choose who he loved by splashing the
other one with his scent. Or a Pak could force another clan to like
him by splashing himself with their scent.
If the Pak had developed contraceptives, but not perfume, then
one Pak would try to force contraceptives on the juvenile Pak from
other families. The clan that received the contraceptives would fight
back. The aggression would continue.
However, perfume would enable a Pak to choose Pak from other clans
to try to love him or her. If every Pak did this, then the Pak would
learn to love each other.
They would then have an incentive to develop contraceptives, since
they would not want any other Pak to die in war. They would start
developing new ways to safely expand their population, such as
Ringworld.
Perfume. Paradise in a bottle.