Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge".
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[M]adman
letter project"?
There are thousands of sites those below.
You will know them by the fruit they produce.
Your cleargy letter project means squat.
______________________________________________
Become an ordained minister almost immediately!
Apply Today!
_____________________________________________
Be Ordained NOW!
_____________________________________________
YOU MAY REQUEST YOUR ORDINATION BY CLICKING HERE
WANT TO SEND YOUR REQUEST IN THE MAIL? CLICK HERE
http://www.ministerialseminary.com/Get_Ordained_Now.html?gclid=CJ-X4bOTv5sCFRNinAodtUDXBA
_____________________________________________
You can become an ordained member of the Spiritual Humanist clergy for FREE
right now! As a legally ordained clergy member you can legally perform
religious ceremonies and rituals like weddings, funerals, benedictions, etc.
http://www.spiritualhumanism.org/?gclid=COH3suaTv5sCFR2dnAodJEzeBQ
_____________________________________________
Universal Ministries will ordain anyone, at no charge
http://www.universalministries.com/doctrine.html
_____________________________________________
Click here to select your ordination package.
____________________________________________
Steps Toward Becoming a Baptist Minister
http://baptist-church.suite101.com/article.cfm/how_to_become_a_pastor
http://www.courseadvisor.com/site/75494216001?creativeid=1440652001&matchType=Broad
http://www.primitivemethodistchurch.org/applications.html
___________________________________________
wf3h
> Would you like to see how easy it is to become a clergy and sign a "clergy
> letter project"?
>
> There are thousands of sites those below.
>
> You will know them by the fruit they produce.
>
> Your cleargy letter project means squat.
> ______________________________________________
>
> Become an ordained minister almost immediately!
>
actually it's faster than 'almost'. i myself am ordained in the
'universal life church'
you can call me 'holiness'....
Chris
> letter project"?
>
> There are thousands of sites those below.
>
> You will know them by the fruit they produce.
>
> Your cleargy letter project means squat.
> ______________________________________________
Wow. Nice try. But another swing and a miss.
This is the logical fallacy of 'guilt by association'. Just as those
evolutionists who claim all theists are morons because there are
idiots like you don't accept evolution are incorrect, that there are
ordained ministers who are in it as a tax scam or whatever does not
tar the ones who are legitimate. You will have to go through the
Clergy (note spelling) Project list and examine the credentials of
individual signatories. Have fun.
Chris
Mike L
> Would you like to see how easy it is to become a clergy and sign a "clergy
> letter project"?
>
> There are thousands of sites those below.
>
> You will know them by the fruit they produce.
>
> Your cleargy letter project means squat.
> ______________________________________________
>
> Become an ordained minister almost immediately!
>
> Apply Today!
>
> http://www.ordination.com/
Do you mean it's rather like those "round robin" things we see every
now and then in which the evolution of species is denied by people
described as "scientists" but who turn out in the main either not to
be biologists or not scientists at all? Have you checked a
representative sample of the signatories for bona fides?
I know you don't usually have time to answer questions, but you seem
very confident, so perhaps you could spare a moment: have you asked
the clergy of various recognized denominations for their opinions on
biological evolution?
--
Mike.
'Rev Dr' Lenny Flank
do the same.
================================================
Lenny Flank
"There are no loose threads in the web of life"
Editor, Red and Black Publishers
http://www.RedandBlackPublishers.com
John McKendry
> Would you like to see how easy it is to become a clergy and sign a
> "clergy letter project"?
>
> There are thousands of sites those below.
>
> You will know them by the fruit they produce.
>
> Your cleargy letter project means squat.
> ______________________________________________
<snip examples of mail-order ordination>
The Clergy Letter Project lists the denomination affiliation of most
of the ministers who sign it. I haven't taken the time to read all
eleven thousand signatures, but a glance at a few pages shows that
a large majority of the signatories are ministers of recognized
denominations, such as (taking the "A-B" page as representative)
Lutheran, Methodist, American Baptist, Unitarian-Universalist,
Episcopal, Presbyterian, Disciples of Christ, United Church of
Christ. Those denominations do not perform or recognize mail-order
ordinations. If you want to argue that the people who sign the
Clergy Letter are not really trained clergy, not really qualified
to speak on behalf of Christian orthodoxy, why don't you take a
look at that page,
http://www.butler.edu/clergyproject/Christian_Clergy/chr_A-B.htm
or any other page you choose, count up the signatures, count how many
are not affiliated with the recognized mainstream Christian denominations
that require years of professional training for their ordained clergy,
and report your findings here?
John
Klaus Hellnick
Church of Spiritual Humanism, myself.
Eric Root
> letter project"?
>
> There are thousands of sites those below.
>
> You will know them by the fruit they produce.
>
> Your cleargy letter project means squat.
> ______________________________________________
>
> Become an ordained minister almost immediately!
>
> Apply Today!
>
> http://www.ordination.com/
>
> _____________________________________________
>
> Be Ordained NOW!
>
> http://pulc.com/
>
> _____________________________________________
>
> YOU MAY REQUEST YOUR ORDINATION BY CLICKING HERE
>
> WANT TO SEND YOUR REQUEST IN THE MAIL? CLICK HERE
>
>
> _____________________________________________
>
> You can become an ordained member of the Spiritual Humanist clergy for FREE
> right now! As a legally ordained clergy member you can legally perform
> religious ceremonies and rituals like weddings, funerals, benedictions, etc.
>
> http://www.spiritualhumanism.org/?gclid=COH3suaTv5sCFR2dnAodJEzeBQ
>
> _____________________________________________
>
> Universal Ministries will ordain anyone, at no charge
>
> http://www.universalministries.com/doctrine.html
>
> _____________________________________________
>
> Click here to select your ordination package.
>
> http://openordination.org/
>
> ____________________________________________
>
> Steps Toward Becoming a Baptist Minister
>
> http://baptist-church.suite101.com/article.cfm/how_to_become_a_pastor
>
>
> ___________________________________________
What doesn't mean squat is your post. Once, yet, again, you prove you
have no idea how to come to logical conclusions from the things you
read or hear.
Eric Root
Ron O
> Would you like to see how easy it is to become a clergy and sign a "clergy
> letter project"?
>
> There are thousands of sites those below.
>
> You will know them by the fruit they produce.
>
> Your cleargy letter project means squat.
> ______________________________________________
>
> Become an ordained minister almost immediately!
>
> Apply Today!
>
> http://www.ordination.com/
>
> _____________________________________________
>
> Be Ordained NOW!
>
> http://pulc.com/
>
> _____________________________________________
>
> YOU MAY REQUEST YOUR ORDINATION BY CLICKING HERE
>
> WANT TO SEND YOUR REQUEST IN THE MAIL? CLICK HERE
>
>
> _____________________________________________
>
> You can become an ordained member of the Spiritual Humanist clergy for FREE
> right now! As a legally ordained clergy member you can legally perform
> religious ceremonies and rituals like weddings, funerals, benedictions, etc.
>
> http://www.spiritualhumanism.org/?gclid=COH3suaTv5sCFR2dnAodJEzeBQ
>
> _____________________________________________
>
> Universal Ministries will ordain anyone, at no charge
>
> http://www.universalministries.com/doctrine.html
>
> _____________________________________________
>
> Click here to select your ordination package.
>
> http://openordination.org/
>
> ____________________________________________
>
> Steps Toward Becoming a Baptist Minister
>
> http://baptist-church.suite101.com/article.cfm/how_to_become_a_pastor
>
>
> ___________________________________________
This is a pretty good attempt at the insanity defense, but you are
still the fruit of something that you don't want to acknowledge. This
type of bogus and insane reasoning does not negate the Biblical
argument and it definitely doesn't demonstrate that you have an honest
and valid anti-evolution argument. It must just be dawning on you
that about all you seem to have on your side are the ignorant, the
incompetent, and the dishonest deceivers. Trying to claim that others
have this problem without examining the credentials of the clergy that
you want to smear, is not just pathetic, but so bogus that even you
can't possibly think that it is the right thing to do. So what are
you the fruit of? What has made you into such a pathetic individual
that you make your own beliefs look so utterly beneath contempt as the
fruit of those beliefs? Lying about someone else to support your
views tells us something about you, but what does it tell you about
you?
It might make you feel better that the Biblical argument in Luke isn't
air tight. The warning about the fruit is more like some signal to
look out for, rather than an absolute ironclad verification. Some
people are just rotten no matter what, and others could just be
incompetent. Some people are just the types that would make any group
look bad. Your problem is why are the adherants of your views so
uniformly bad. Where are the good fruit?
Ron Okimoto
Nashton
> On Jul 5, 2:18 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmaill.et> wrote:
>> Would you like to see how easy it is to become a clergy and sign a "clergy
>> letter project"?
>>
>> There are thousands of sites those below.
>>
>> You will know them by the fruit they produce.
>>
>> Your cleargy letter project means squat.
>> ______________________________________________
>
> Wow. Nice try. But another swing and a miss.
>
> This is the logical fallacy of 'guilt by association'. Just as those
> evolutionists who claim all theists are morons
You just described 99.9% of this forum.
J.J. O'Shea
(in article <h2rbat$kco$1...@news.eternal-september.org>):
> Chris wrote:
>> On Jul 5, 2:18 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmaill.et> wrote:
>>> Would you like to see how easy it is to become a clergy and sign a "clergy
>>> letter project"?
>>>
>>> There are thousands of sites those below.
>>>
>>> You will know them by the fruit they produce.
>>>
>>> Your cleargy letter project means squat.
>>> ______________________________________________
>>
>> Wow. Nice try. But another swing and a miss.
>>
>> This is the logical fallacy of 'guilt by association'. Just as those
>> evolutionists who claim all theists are morons
>
>
> You just described 99.9% of this forum.
Errm... nope. There are considerably less than 1000 regular posters here, and
quite a few of us 'evolutionists' are theists and do not say anything of the
kind.
But then _you_ are a creationist cretin, and therefore have problems with the
truth, and with numbers.
--
email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com.
John S. Wilkins
I am the Lead Profit of the Church of Chocoholism.
--
John S. Wilkins, Philosophy, University of Sydney
http://evolvingthoughts.net
But al be that he was a philosophre,
Yet hadde he but litel gold in cofre
John Smith
"John S. Wilkins" <jo...@wilkins.id.au> wrote in message
news:1j2fo9x.1bzs6xx7k0zfsN%jo...@wilkins.id.au...
> Klaus Hellnick <khel...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> wf3h wrote:
>> > On Jul 5, 2:18 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmaill.et> wrote:
>> >> Would you like to see how easy it is to become a clergy and sign a
>> >> "clergy
>> >> letter project"?
>> >>
>> >> There are thousands of sites those below.
>> >>
>> >> You will know them by the fruit they produce.
>> >>
>> >> Your cleargy letter project means squat.
>> >> ______________________________________________
>> >>
>> >> Become an ordained minister almost immediately!
>> >>
>> >
>> > actually it's faster than 'almost'. i myself am ordained in the
>> > 'universal life church'
>> >
>> > you can call me 'holiness'....
>> >
>>
>> Church of Spiritual Humanism, myself.
>
> I am the Lead Profit of the Church of Chocoholism.
I am the head of the "First Church Of Procrastinators For Christ"!
The oldest christian denomination in existence.
Founded in 0001.
We haven't had our first meeting, yet .... but we will ...... sometime soon
...........
rmacfarl
"John Smith" <bobsyo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:O6e4m.2535$9l4....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
I was going to join that one, but I haven't got around to it...
Chris
> Chris wrote:
> > On Jul 5, 2:18 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmaill.et> wrote:
> >> Would you like to see how easy it is to become a clergy and sign a "clergy
> >> letter project"?
>
> >> There are thousands of sites those below.
>
> >> You will know them by the fruit they produce.
>
> >> Your cleargy letter project means squat.
> >> ______________________________________________
>
> > Wow. Nice try. But another swing and a miss.
>
> > This is the logical fallacy of 'guilt by association'. Just as those
> > evolutionists who claim all theists are morons
>
> You just described 99.9% of this forum.
Well no. Calling *you* a moron is just plain common sense. But you're
nothing like 99.9% of theists, thank goodness.
Chris
Mike Dworetsky
news:h2s5ik$df$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
If you are a true procrastinator, you could still try to join the People's
Front of Judea.
--
Mike Dworetsky
(Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply)
[M]adman
"Nashton" <n...@nana.ca> wrote in message
news:h2rbat$kco$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> Chris wrote:
>> On Jul 5, 2:18 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmaill.et> wrote:
>>> Would you like to see how easy it is to become a clergy and sign a
>>> "clergy
>>> letter project"?
>>>
>>> There are thousands of sites those below.
>>>
>>> You will know them by the fruit they produce.
>>>
>>> Your cleargy letter project means squat.
>>> ______________________________________________
>>
>> Wow. Nice try. But another swing and a miss.
>>
>> This is the logical fallacy of 'guilt by association'. Just as those
>> evolutionists who claim all theists are morons
>
>
> You just described 99.9% of this forum.
I spent some time reading that "list" of names at the clergy project. Half
of them look like they are from those bogus "get ordained now!" web sites,
about 30% are women and the rest look suspect. Probably renegade's that left
the flock and went on their own.
[M]adman
"Ron O" <roki...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:8ac55a2f-99d9-4913...@g19g2000yql.googlegroups.com...
Ron Okimoto
You don't "get it" , do you?
Evolution is your fruit. Evolution goes against the teachings of the
original Christian, Jesus of Nazerath
Mark Evans
> "John S. Wilkins" <j...@wilkins.id.au> wrote in messagenews:1j2fo9x.1bzs6xx7k0zfsN%jo...@wilkins.id.au...
>
>
>
> > Klaus Hellnick <khelln...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >> wf3h wrote:
> >> > On Jul 5, 2:18 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmaill.et> wrote:
> >> >> Would you like to see how easy it is to become a clergy and sign a
> >> >> "clergy
> >> >> letter project"?
>
> >> >> There are thousands of sites those below.
>
> >> >> You will know them by the fruit they produce.
>
> >> >> Your cleargy letter project means squat.
> >> >> ______________________________________________
>
> >> >> Become an ordained minister almost immediately!
>
> >> > actually it's faster than 'almost'. i myself am ordained in the
> >> > 'universal life church'
>
> >> > you can call me 'holiness'....
>
> >> Church of Spiritual Humanism, myself.
>
> > I am the Lead Profit of the Church of Chocoholism.
>
> I am the head of the "First Church Of Procrastinators For Christ"!
>
> The oldest christian denomination in existence.
> Founded in 0001.
>
> We haven't had our first meeting, yet .... but we will ...... sometime soon
> ...........
Nope, not the oldest. I once worked with a guy who insisted that Noah
was a christian. He was willing to let Adam and Eve slip by as sort
of proto-Jews, but everyone else in the Old Testament was a christian.
Mark Evans
Mark Evans
SNIP
>
> I spent some time reading that "list" of names at the clergy project. Half
> of them look like they are from those bogus "get ordained now!" web sites,
> about 30% are women and the rest look suspect. Probably renegade's that left
> the flock and went on their own.
>
Oh my, someone starting their own denomination because they don't
agree? How unheard of. I guess the thousands of denominations of
christianity in this country were founded by people who agreed with
their established church. And the very thought that there might be
women clerics doubtless scares many. Egad, not only women but women
who have opinions and can, gasp, read and write well enough to sign
their name. What is the world coming to? What is next, Madman let
out of the group home he lives in?
Mark Evans
Mike L
[...]
>
> Evolution goes against the teachings of [*...] Jesus of Nazerath
You've mentioned this before. I'm ready to agree with the statement,
but I don't think you've ever given us the Bible reference for it. Can
you do so, please?
> *the original Christian, Jesus of Nazerath
(I excised this phrase from your sentence above not to mislead, but in
order to preserve the focus of my enquiry.) I imagine you know that
this is a controversial characterisation on more than one ground.
--
Mike.
Robert Weldon
"[M]adman" <nos...@hotmail.et> wrote in message
news:madman-2xn4m.19546$Xw4....@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
No, you are the one who doen't get it. If reality conflicts with some
aspect of your version of religion, it is your verision of religion that is
wrong, not reality.
Robert Weldon
>
> "Nashton" <n...@nana.ca> wrote in message
> news:h2rbat$kco$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Chris wrote:
>>> On Jul 5, 2:18 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmaill.et> wrote:
>>>> Would you like to see how easy it is to become a clergy and sign a
>>>> "clergy
>>>> letter project"?
>>>>
>>>> There are thousands of sites those below.
>>>>
>>>> You will know them by the fruit they produce.
>>>>
>>>> Your cleargy letter project means squat.
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Wow. Nice try. But another swing and a miss.
>>>
>>> This is the logical fallacy of 'guilt by association'. Just as those
>>> evolutionists who claim all theists are morons
>>
>>
>> You just described 99.9% of this forum.
>
> I spent some time reading that "list" of names at the clergy project. Half
> of them look like they are from those bogus "get ordained now!" web sites,
> about 30% are women and the rest look suspect. Probably renegade's that
> left the flock and went on their own.
>
Why does being female disqualify them from being legitimate?
Gary Bohn
> Klaus Hellnick <khel...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> wf3h wrote:
>> > On Jul 5, 2:18 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmaill.et> wrote:
>> >> Would you like to see how easy it is to become a clergy and sign a
>> >> "clergy letter project"?
>> >>
>> >> There are thousands of sites those below.
>> >>
>> >> You will know them by the fruit they produce.
>> >>
>> >> Your cleargy letter project means squat.
>> >> ______________________________________________
>> >>
>> >> Become an ordained minister almost immediately!
>> >>
>> >>
>> > actually it's faster than 'almost'. i myself am ordained in the
>> > 'universal life church'
>> >
>> > you can call me 'holiness'....
>> >
>> >
>> Church of Spiritual Humanism, myself.
>
> I am the Lead Profit of the Church of Chocoholism.
No wonder you're broke.
rmacfarl
"Mike Dworetsky" <plati...@pants.btinternet.com> wrote in
message news:J4udne8KDoexbczX...@bt.com...
F@#$ the People's Front of Judea! Splitters!!
Walter Bushell
<595623a7-3728-48ed...@i4g2000prm.googlegroups.com>,
Mark Evans <mev...@gcfn.org> wrote:
> > ...........
>
> Nope, not the oldest. I once worked with a guy who insisted that Noah
> was a christian. He was willing to let Adam and Eve slip by as sort
> of proto-Jews, but everyone else in the Old Testament was a christian.
>
> Mark Evans
But that is not far from the Christian claim of being the unique true
outgrowth of the Hebrew -- Jewish tradition.
Walter Bushell
"[M]adman" <nos...@hotmail.et> wrote:
> Evolution goes against the teachings of the
> original Christian, Jesus of Nazerath
Jesus took himself as his own personal saviour?
J.J. O'Shea
(in article <h8o4m.14908$Kn1....@newsfe09.iad>):
>
> "[M]adman" <nos...@hotmail.et> wrote in message
> news:madman-Jtn4m.19544$Xw4....@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
>>
>> "Nashton" <n...@nana.ca> wrote in message
>> news:h2rbat$kco$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> Chris wrote:
>>>> On Jul 5, 2:18 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmaill.et> wrote:
>>>>> Would you like to see how easy it is to become a clergy and sign a
>>>>> "clergy
>>>>> letter project"?
>>>>>
>>>>> There are thousands of sites those below.
>>>>>
>>>>> You will know them by the fruit they produce.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your cleargy letter project means squat.
>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> Wow. Nice try. But another swing and a miss.
>>>>
>>>> This is the logical fallacy of 'guilt by association'. Just as those
>>>> evolutionists who claim all theists are morons
>>>
>>>
>>> You just described 99.9% of this forum.
>>
>> I spent some time reading that "list" of names at the clergy project. Half
>> of them look like they are from those bogus "get ordained now!" web sites,
>> about 30% are women and the rest look suspect. Probably renegade's that
>> left the flock and went on their own.
>>
>
> Why does being female disqualify them from being legitimate?
'Cause no woman has ever let madman/uriel have sex with her, and he's pissed
about it.
Chris
>
> news:h2rbat$kco$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>
>
> > Chris wrote:
> >> On Jul 5, 2:18 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmaill.et> wrote:
> >>> Would you like to see how easy it is to become a clergy and sign a
> >>> "clergy
> >>> letter project"?
>
> >>> There are thousands of sites those below.
>
> >>> You will know them by the fruit they produce.
>
> >>> Your cleargy letter project means squat.
> >>> ______________________________________________
>
> >> Wow. Nice try. But another swing and a miss.
>
> >> This is the logical fallacy of 'guilt by association'. Just as those
> >> evolutionists who claim all theists are morons
>
> > You just described 99.9% of this forum.
>
> I spent some time reading that "list" of names at the clergy project. Half
> of them look like they are from those bogus "get ordained now!" web sites,
> about 30% are women and the rest look suspect. Probably renegade's that left
> the flock and went on their own.
What percentage did you dislike because their names sounded black?
Chris
J.J. O'Shea
(in article <proto-737B12....@news.panix.com>):
madman/uriel is more confused than he usually is... which means that he's
very confused indeed.
[M]adman
beeeeppppp! wrong answer
[M]adman
> On 6 July, 15:18, "[M]adman" <nos...@hotmail.et> wrote:
> [...]
>>
>> Evolution goes against the teachings of [*...] Jesus of Nazerath
>
> You've mentioned this before. I'm ready to agree with the statement,
> but I don't think you've ever given us the Bible reference for it. Can
> you do so, please?
I'll do my best.
First. Let's start with Mark 10:6 since so many of you need specific words
to believe in. Bear in mind that you will not get the full truth by
organized religions today. I doubt we ever could. So it is essential that
you do your own research.
Mark Chapter 10, vs 6 (KJV)
" 6? But from the beginning of the creation, God ??made them male and
female."
The above is a recorded quote from Jesus saying "God Created" men and women.
This single sentence alone shows that you cannot believe in evolution and
believe in the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth at the same time.... Not to
mention the fact that Jesus also said you cannot worship more then one
master because you will love one more then the other. Now he was talking
about money when he said that but the correlation can be made to man's
knowledge as well. IOW you cannot believe man's theory that says humans
evolved and believe the bible's story that God created at the same time. You
will respect one version of man's existence more then the other. Jesus'
version is God Created according to Mark 10:6.
Next. You need to have a full understanding of the bible, Hebrew history,
their customs, their language, even their slang to realize just what Jesus
was driving at with his ministry. All of his teachings were directed at
bringing people back to God and the fact that God was their creator. We are
the clay pots. God is the potter. He also focused on loving one another and
treating each other _as we would like_ to be treated ourselves.
Jesus also distrusted the organized religious leaders of his day. So he was
teaching by example on that if you ask me. But he is quoted as saying to the
false teachers:
<quote>
"Woe to you, teachers of the Law ... you hypocrites! You clean the outside
of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence!"
Matthew 23:25-26. His hatred of the religious leaders during his day is what
finally got him killed.
Third. Jesus said he did not come to change one jot of the law or any of the
books of the prophets. The Torah, which is the first four books of the bible
is often considered the law. Genesis is in the Torah. Genesis said God
created. Jesus said God created in Mark 10:6 above.
<quote>
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have
not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until
heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of
a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is
accomplished" (Matthew 5:17-18).
The "law" and the books of the old testament which includes the Prophets are
what Jesus spoke of and _taught_ from regularly. He opened his ministry with
a quote from the book of Isaiah in fact.
He also quoted the prophet Isaiah when he taught God said:
"Matthew 15:9 'BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE
PRECEPTS OF MEN.'"
Evolution is not a teaching from God but is a precept from men regarding the
origins of species. Jesus clearly taught God created. So the two concepts of
evolution and creation are diametrically opposed to one another according to
the original Christian himself; Jesus.
Finally, Jesus taught that "the way" to God was narrow and that we should
not assume that all who call Jesus "Lord" are really Christians.
<quote>
"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad
that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the
gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few
who find it." (NASB) Matt. 7:13-14
<quote>
Mat7:21
""Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of
heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."
Final thought.
<quote>
"'You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of men, but God knows
your hearts. What is highly valued among men is detestable in God's sight'."
Luke 16:15. Science is justifying itself before the eyes of men but not
before the eyes of God with regards to evolution.
Now... Are you still " ready to agree with the statement"?
A yes or no will do.
adman
SkyEyes
> "Ron O" <rokim...@cox.net> wrote in message
1. It's spelled "Nazareth," numbnuts.
2. "Jesus of Nazareth" is a mistranslation: properly speaking, it's
"Jesus the Nazorean," "Nazorean" being another name for the Essenes,
of which sect Jesus was said to be a member. During the time Jesus
was supposed to have existed, Nazareth did not exist as a settlement.
It was merely a garbage dump.
Now carry on bragging about what a Master of Ancient Lore you are.
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
skyeyes nine at cox dot net
Mike L
> Mike L wrote:
> > On 6 July, 15:18, "[M]adman" <nos...@hotmail.et> wrote:
> > [...]
>
> >> Evolution goes against the teachings of [*...] Jesus of Nazerath
>
> > You've mentioned this before. I'm ready to agree with the statement,
> > but I don't think you've ever given us the Bible reference for it. Can
> > you do so, please?
>
> I'll do my best.
>
>
> Now... Are you still " ready to agree with the statement"?
>
> A yes or no will do.
I'll keep it moderately simple. Yes. But if so, I don't agree with
him.
Thank you. This is, I think, the first time you've answered one of my
questions, and I appreciate your courtesy.
>
> >> *the original Christian, Jesus of Nazerath
>
> > (I excised this phrase from your sentence above not to mislead, but in
> > order to preserve the focus of my enquiry.) I imagine you know that
> > this is a controversial characterisation on more than one ground.
--
Mike.
Ye Old One
Is it possible to get more confused than totally confused?
--
Bob.
Ye Old One
enriched this group when s/he wrote:
>Mike L wrote:
>> On 6 July, 15:18, "[M]adman" <nos...@hotmail.et> wrote:
>> [...]
>>>
>>> Evolution goes against the teachings of [*...] Jesus of Nazerath
>>
>> You've mentioned this before. I'm ready to agree with the statement,
>> but I don't think you've ever given us the Bible reference for it. Can
>> you do so, please?
>
>I'll do my best.
>
>First. Let's start with Mark 10:6 since so many of you need specific words
>to believe in. Bear in mind that you will not get the full truth by
>organized religions today. I doubt we ever could. So it is essential that
>you do your own research.
>
>Mark Chapter 10, vs 6 (KJV)
>" 6? But from the beginning of the creation, God ??made them male and
>female."
You cannot use one part of a collection of fairy stories to validate
another.
[snip lots more Mudbrain stupidity.]
Madman (aka Mudbrain) is on record as claiming:-
That 3.5% actually means 25%...
That the actor Paul Newman was a creationist...
That "Dr." Kent Hovind has made lots of *scientific* discoveries...
That wars have been fought because some scientific finding discredited
some facet of some religion...
To have a "higher education" than most posters to this news group...
To understand how geologists determine the age of any given sample of
rock...
That trilobites were Cambrian mammals... [that one still makes me
laugh]
And that he has "created genes" and not evolved ape genes...
That linguists have traced all the world's languages to the Middle
East region and back to around the same time as the bible claims Noah
and his sons rebuilt mankind.
Claimed that talk.origin's moderator was a troll.
Claimed cigarettes do not cause cancer.
Now, I ask you, is this the sort of guy you would give an credence to?
Certainly I don't.
--
Bob.
J.J. O'Shea
(in article <tcn455lbkab04gqno...@4ax.com>):
If it is, I have every confidence that madman/uriel will be able to do it.
Mike Dworetsky
He's over there.
Ye Old One
<try.n...@but.see.sig> enriched this group when s/he wrote:
>On Mon, 6 Jul 2009 16:30:44 -0400, Ye Old One wrote
>(in article <tcn455lbkab04gqno...@4ax.com>):
>
>> On Mon, 6 Jul 2009 13:56:20 -0400, "J.J. O'Shea"
>> <try.n...@but.see.sig> enriched this group when s/he wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 6 Jul 2009 12:55:22 -0400, Walter Bushell wrote
>>> (in article <proto-737B12....@news.panix.com>):
>>>
>>>> In article <madman-2xn4m.19546$Xw4....@bignews7.bellsouth.net>,
>>>> "[M]adman" <nos...@hotmail.et> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Evolution goes against the teachings of the
>>>>> original Christian, Jesus of Nazerath
>>>>
>>>> Jesus took himself as his own personal saviour?
>>>>
>>>
>>> madman/uriel is more confused than he usually is... which means that he's
>>> very confused indeed.
>>
>> Is it possible to get more confused than totally confused?
>>
>>
>
>If it is, I have every confidence that madman/uriel will be able to do it.
But can he ever achieve the level Spincronic has reached?
--
Bob.
J.J. O'Shea
(in article <j5s455t5ua90qqfft...@4ax.com>):
Nope. That.s impossible. Spiny is rapidly approaching legendary status. If he
keeps this up his name will be mentioned alongside those of Ted Holden, he of
the bats and the magic mountains, and Carl Crawford, he of the woodpeckers,
and Brice Wellington, he of the one ball and belt sander.
Mark Evans
> In article
> <595623a7-3728-48ed-901f-53a58fa93...@i4g2000prm.googlegroups.com>,
The fellow I knew insisted that the Jews were an off-shoot of the
Catholic church. BTW, he had been "educated" in a religious school
system.
Mark Evans
Mark Evans
You are confusing what Jesus may or may not have said with what the
authors claiming to be his disciples are supposed to have written
decades after the fact. Please find us one solid reference to old
Josh's comments on anything.
Mark Evans
wf3h
> Mike L wrote:
> > On 6 July, 15:18, "[M]adman" <nos...@hotmail.et> wrote:
>
> > You've mentioned this before. I'm ready to agree with the statement,
> > but I don't think you've ever given us the Bible reference for it. Can
> > you do so, please?
>
> I'll do my best.
>
> First. Let's start with Mark 10:6 since so many of you need specific words
> to believe in. Bear in mind that you will not get the full truth by
> organized religions today. I doubt we ever could. So it is essential that
> you do your own research.
and you don't do yours, instead relying on canned creationist
propaganda...
>
> Mark Chapter 10, vs 6 (KJV)
> " 6? But from the beginning of the creation, God ??made them male and
> female."
>
> The above is a recorded quote from Jesus
well, no it's not. it's hearsay. we don't know what jesus said, wrote
or believed. all we have is hearsay...things that people THOUGHT he
said. and if you read the gospels you find they vary widely as to what
people thought jesus said. for example, what were the last words of
jesus?
so this idea that creationists can quote verbum domini is just
ridiculous.
saying "God Created" men and women.
> This single sentence alone shows that you cannot believe in evolution and
> believe in the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth at the same time.
sure you can. god created with evolution. he knew when the mental
processes of humans first appeared in human beings. moreover, most
christians do not believe in scriptural literalism and most christians
do not 'believe in the bible', that idea being a 19th century heresy
... Not to
> mention the fact that Jesus also said you cannot worship more then one
> master because you will love one more then the other. Now he was talking
> about money when he said that but the correlation can be made to man's
> knowledge as well.
or man's religion. or man's scriptures. those who worship the bible
rather than its author are engaged in heresy
IOW you cannot believe man's theory that says humans
> evolved and believe the bible's story that God created at the same time. You
> will respect one version of man's existence more then the other. Jesus'
> version is God Created according to Mark 10:6.
or you will use the brains god gave you and understand that the
genesis version is not science, but evolution is. to reject the
evidence of the world is to make god a liar. one needs to explain
fossils, common descent, etc. these can not be explained apart from
evolution. creationist tried, for 2000 years, and it failed.
>
> Next. You need to have a full understanding of the bible, Hebrew history,
now why would god, the great communicator, couch the most important
message in history in terms that no one can understand? why would he
do so in terms that are so ambiguous that there are 38,000 christian
churches, each with their view of scripture? your view of scripture is
just one in the crowd. there's no proof YOUR view is right.
> their customs, their language, even their slang to realize just what Jesus
> was driving at with his ministry.
and you got all of these wrong, beginning with the idea that we can
know what jesus said. we can't.
>
> Third. Jesus said he did not come to change one jot of the law or any of the
> books of the prophets. The Torah, which is the first four books of the bible
actually the first 5 books of the bible...
> is often considered the law. Genesis is in the Torah. Genesis said God
> created. Jesus said God created in Mark 10:6 above.
and he created via evolution. the evidence shows this.
>
> Evolution is not a teaching from God but is a precept from men regarding the
> origins of species. Jesus clearly taught God created. So the two concepts of
> evolution and creation are diametrically opposed to one another according to
> the original Christian himself; Jesus.
evolution is a reflection of god's creative power in nature. god
created natural laws. evolution is a natural law. thus jesus DID
fulfill the law when he taught god created...via evolution.
>
> Finally, Jesus taught that "the way" to God was narrow and that we should
> not assume that all who call Jesus "Lord" are really Christians.
amazing how arrogant creationsits are. they tried for 2000 years to
explain nature. they failed. always. without exception yet TODAY they
insist they are right.
they insist they know the bible. it's obvious they don't
they insist you need to 'believe in the bible' to be a christian. that
idea was invented by men in the 19th century.
so adman's entire argument is wrong. totally wrong. he does not
understand scripture. he does not understand history. he does not
understand god's creative power in natural law and natural order.
in short he's a desperate liar trying to push one view of doctrine
that is a 19th century heresy...
>
>
Ron O
> "Ron O" <rokim...@cox.net> wrote in message
>
> news:8ac55a2f-99d9-4913...@g19g2000yql.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Would you like to see how easy it is to become a clergy and sign a "clergy
> > letter project"?
>
> > There are thousands of sites those below.
>
> > You will know them by the fruit they produce.
>
> > Your cleargy letter project means squat.
> > ______________________________________________
>
> > Become an ordained minister almost immediately!
>
> original Christian, Jesus of Nazerath-
You don't get it. You are the fruit of your beliefs and the people
that sold those beliefs to you. How can you claim that evolution goes
agianst the teachings of the original Christian when Ray claims that
you aren't a true Christian yourself so how would you know? These are
the fruits that you share a tree with. What does that tell you?
Not only that, but you have to deal with what you are, not what
evolution is. You are the fruit. By your own Biblical argument what
does that mean? If the other side is the wrong side, why are you the
one that gets stuck lying about other Christians? Why is it you that
hasn't been able to find an honest and valid creationist anti-
evolution argument? Where are the good fruits on your side? Why is
ignorance and incompetence a virtue? Don't you wish that you were
still ignorant? Your problem is that you know too much. You know for
a fact how bogus your arguments are, and you know that a lot of the
arguments have been known to be bogus for decades.
Ron Okimoto
[M]adman
Please state your reasons and evidence why the author, a disciple and friend
that lived and traveled with Jesus would be lying
[M]adman
To the folks in lurk land, THE ABOVE IS AN EXAMPLE OF:
"YOUR BRAIN ON EVOLUTION"
[M]adman
> On 6 July, 20:31, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmaill.et> wrote:
>> Mike L wrote:
>>> On 6 July, 15:18, "[M]adman" <nos...@hotmail.et> wrote:
>>> [...]
>>
>>>> Evolution goes against the teachings of [*...] Jesus of Nazerath
>>
>>> You've mentioned this before. I'm ready to agree with the statement,
>>> but I don't think you've ever given us the Bible reference for it.
>>> Can you do so, please?
>>
>> I'll do my best.
>>
> [...references and quotations snipped...]
>>
>> Now... Are you still " ready to agree with the statement"?
>>
>> A yes or no will do.
>
> I'll keep it moderately simple. Yes. But if so, I don't agree with
> him.
"Yes but if so I do not agree with him?"
That is the reason why i do not take you nutsacks serious.
I spent 30 minuets of my time showing you a clear example where the
"original Christian" says "God created male and female"...
Which means you cannot believe God created and man evolved at the same time
and be a true christian.
HTH
Mark Evans
Well, first of all the author claims he is the disciple and friend of
Jesus with no supporting evidence. Heck, there is no proof that he is
even the person he claims to be, let alone his status vis-a-vis
Jesus. Secondly, his account was supposedly written down decades
after the fact, not as things happened. Thirdly, no original copy is
known to exist and the oldest copies known are transcriptions and most
likely translations. Fourthly, lying would be very useful if you want
to establish a new religious sect. Fifth, and last for this post,
there is no hard evidence that Jesus ever existed. Please keep in
mind that you are talking about a time and place that was ruled by
compulsive record keepers yet there is no record to be found.
These are a pretty solid set of reasons. I leave it to you to explore
human nature and history, if the folks at your home for the reality
challenged permit it, to make yourself familiar with the evidence.
Hint of advice, Maddie: When someone makes claims that are at odds
with reality they are not the best people to cite as "proof". Of
course, if you are in control of your own funds, which I doubt, I
could arrange for you to purchase some swamp land in Florida or a
bridge in New York City. Heck, I can even get you a bridge in a swamp
if you are as dumb as you seem to be.
Mark Evans
Chris
Not Jesuit, I bet.
Chris
[M]adman
Stop SmoKin the local herbs Chief
Cory Albrecht
Please state your evidence that the authors of the Gospels actually were
disciples and friends of Jesus and actually lived and travelled with him.
Mark Evans
you know, your refusal to refute logical arguement and rely on
projection your own drug use via your racism makes for a poor
response. Talk it over with the therapist at the Home.
(Ever notice that Maddie has never denied my assertion about his
"assisted living" lifestyle? Wonder why?)
Mark Evans
Mark Evans
Dunno if it was Jesuit but it was Catholic. He might have taken one
too many rulers to the head, though.
Mark Evans
Mark Evans
Heck, we would be thrilled if he could post evidence that Jesus and
his merry men actually existed.
Mark Evans
Ron O
What is really sad is that you didn't even understand the meaning of
the "By their fruits" thread.
No honest and valid anti-evolution argument, just lies. What kind of
fruit does that make you, and what does that tell you about the tree
that you came from? It isn't my interpretation of the Bible, it is
yours.
Do you have anyone that you trust that you can talk to about this?
Just because you have realized that you are a bad fruit doesn't mean
the end of the world. I'd stand up and defend your right to believe
whatever you want, but I am against dishonesty and bogousity, and I am
for the separation of church and state. The simple reason for this
is, that there is no way that I would accept someone like you forcing
my kids to believe what you do. You have to have some idea why anyone
with a brain would not trust you as an authority on anything, and your
type are about the only type that wants to force their religion into
the public schools.
You may want to look up the list of clergy on the Clergy Letter
project and see if there is one of them that lives near you that you
could talk to. I don't want to burden them with you if you are going
to be an idiot, but I doubt that they will treat you like an idiot
unless you act like one. Methodists have a YEC evangelical
contingent, and they aren't thrown out. My guess is that there are
YEC members of our church. It just isn't what anyone worries about.
The Methodist clergy that signed the letter may not be YEC, but they
may know someone that is that they might recommend. You might be able
to find out how they get along in a church that does not have an
official stance on the subject. I do not recommend this to mock you.
It may be the only way that you can work your way out of your present
state without continuing to lie to yourself.
Ron Okimoto
[M]adman
Lies are easy to ./ignore
THAT'S Why
>
> Mark Evans
Rich Mathers
>
>
> > Mark Evans
Wombat
Please learn the difference between lying and trying to remember
everything a friend said forty or fifty years later, or what one of
the disciples told the writer of the gospel years before the writer
jotted the details down.
Wombat
Wombat
Or Salesian
Wombat
Mark Isaak
> Mike L wrote:
>> On 6 July, 15:18, "[M]adman" <nos...@hotmail.et> wrote:
>> [...]
>>>
>>> Evolution goes against the teachings of [*...] Jesus of Nazerath
>>
>> You've mentioned this before. I'm ready to agree with the statement,
>> but I don't think you've ever given us the Bible reference for it. Can
>> you do so, please?
>
> I'll do my best.
>
> First. Let's start with Mark 10:6 since so many of you need specific
> words to believe in. Bear in mind that you will not get the full truth
> by organized religions today. I doubt we ever could. So it is essential
> that you do your own research.
>
> Mark Chapter 10, vs 6 (KJV)
> " 6? But from the beginning of the creation, God ??made them male and
> female."
>
> The above is a recorded quote from Jesus saying "God Created" men and
> women. This single sentence alone shows that you cannot believe in
> evolution and believe in the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth at the same
> time....
Note it says "*from* the beginning", not "*at* the beginning". That
means creation has to be an ongoing process. The only theory of ongoing
creation ever proposed and still accepted (that I know of) is evolution.
> Not to mention the fact that Jesus also said you cannot worship
> more then one master because you will love one more then the other. Now
> he was talking about money when he said that but the correlation can be
> made to man's knowledge as well. IOW you cannot believe man's theory
> that says humans evolved and believe the bible's story that God created
> at the same time.
Again you have it backwards. Evolution is God's theory, not man's. It
is recorded in the earth itself. Man merely discovered it. The Bible,
on the other hand, is man-made.
>[...]
> Third. Jesus said he did not come to change one jot of the law or any
> of the books of the prophets. The Torah, which is the first four books
> of the bible is often considered the law. Genesis is in the Torah.
I'm no rabbi, but it seems to me that there is a huge difference between
"law" and "Torah". Genesis 1-9 is a collection of stories, not laws.
Most of the first five (not four) books contain a lot of law, but they
contain stuff that is not law, too.
And like I said, the creation accounts are stories. Why do you think
people tell stories? There are plenty of reasons, and not a lot of them
involve the events of the story actually happening. Even if you do
consider Genesis 1 to be "law" in some sense, interpreting it as history
would quite likely go against the intent of that law.
--
Mark Isaak eciton (at) earthlink (dot) net
"It is certain, from experience, that the smallest grain of natural
honesty and benevolence has more effect on men's conduct, than the most
pompous views suggested by theological theories and systems." - D. Hume
Mark Evans
What lies? You have not refuted or denied anything, just spewed
insults and projections of your own problems onto others.
Mark Evans
Ye Old One
enriched this group when s/he wrote:
>Please state your reasons and evidence why the author, a disciple and friend
>that lived and traveled with Jesus would be lying
1) You fist need to show that JC actually lived.
2) You then need to show that any of the writings that make up the new
testament were actually written by people alive at the time.
Then you can go on to explain your other daft claims.
Madman (aka Mudbrain) is on record as claiming:-
That 3.5% actually means 25%...
That the actor Paul Newman was a creationist...
That "Dr." Kent Hovind has made lots of *scientific* discoveries...
That wars have been fought because some scientific finding discredited
some facet of some religion...
To have a "higher education" than most posters to this news group...
To understand how geologists determine the age of any given sample of
rock...
That trilobites were Cambrian mammals... [that one still makes me
laugh]
And that he has "created genes" and not evolved ape genes...
That linguists have traced all the world's languages to the Middle
East region and back to around the same time as the bible claims Noah
and his sons rebuilt mankind.
Claimed that talk.origin's moderator was a troll.
Claimed cigarettes do not cause cancer.
Now, I ask you, is this the sort of guy you would give an credence to?
Certainly I don't.
--
Bob.
Ye Old One
One very good reason why many ignore the bible.
>
>THAT'S Why
>
>
>>
>> Mark Evans
--
Bob.
rmacfarl
"Mike Dworetsky" <plati...@pants.btinternet.com> wrote in
message news:5uednZIN98Di9s_X...@bt.com...
> "rmacfarl" <rmac...@alphalink.com.au> wrote in message
> news:h2t8fa$fl3$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> "Mike Dworetsky" <plati...@pants.btinternet.com> wrote in
>> message news:J4udne8KDoexbczX...@bt.com...
>>> "rmacfarl" <rmac...@alphalink.com.au> wrote in message
>>> news:h2s5ik$df$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>
>>>> "John Smith" <bobsyo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:O6e4m.2535$9l4....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>>>>>
>>>>> "John S. Wilkins" <jo...@wilkins.id.au> wrote in message
>>>>> news:1j2fo9x.1bzs6xx7k0zfsN%jo...@wilkins.id.au...
>>>>>> Klaus Hellnick <khel...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> wf3h wrote:
>>>>>>> > On Jul 5, 2:18 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmaill.et>
>>>>>>> >> Would you like to see how easy it is to become a
>>>>>>> >> clergy
>>>>>>> >> and sign a "clergy
>>>>>>> >> letter project"?
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> There are thousands of sites those below.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> You will know them by the fruit they produce.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Your cleargy letter project means squat.
>>>>>>> >> ______________________________________________
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Become an ordained minister almost immediately!
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > ordained
>>>>>>> > in
>>>>>>> > the
>>>>>>> > 'universal life church'
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > you can call me 'holiness'....
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Church of Spiritual Humanism, myself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am the Lead Profit of the Church of Chocoholism.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am the head of the "First Church Of Procrastinators For
>>>>> Christ"!
>>>>>
>>>>> The oldest christian denomination in existence.
>>>>> Founded in 0001.
>>>>>
>>>>> We haven't had our first meeting, yet .... but we will
>>>>> ......
>>>>> sometime soon ...........
>>>>
>>>> I was going to join that one, but I haven't got around to
>>>> it...
>>>>
>>>
>>> If you are a true procrastinator, you could still try to join
>>> the People's
>>> Front of Judea.
>>>
>>
>> F@#$ the People's Front of Judea! Splitters!!
>>
>
> He's over there.
>
I wan't you to call me, "Loretta"...
wf3h
> "Yes but if so I do not agree with him?"
>
> That is the reason why i do not take you nutsacks serious.
>
> I spent 30 minuets of my time showing you a clear example where the
> "original Christian" says "God created male and female"...
>
which he did by evolution
> Which means you cannot believe God created and man evolved at the same time
> and be a true christian.
you still haven't explained that statement. why can't you since many
christians do exactly this? it's wrong on its face.
your view of the bible is simply fucked up.
Robert Weldon
"[M]adman" <ad...@hotmaill.et> wrote in message
news:madman-zds4m.19747$he4....@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
> Robert Weldon wrote:
>> "[M]adman" <nos...@hotmail.et> wrote in message
>> news:madman-2xn4m.19546$Xw4....@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
>>>
>>> "Ron O" <roki...@cox.net> wrote in message
>>> news:8ac55a2f-99d9-4913...@g19g2000yql.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Jul 5, 1:18 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmaill.et> wrote:
>>>> Would you like to see how easy it is to become a clergy and sign a
>>>> "clergy
>>>> letter project"?
>>>>
>>>> There are thousands of sites those below.
>>>>
>>>> You will know them by the fruit they produce.
>>>>
>>>> Your cleargy letter project means squat.
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> Become an ordained minister almost immediately!
>>>>
>>> original Christian, Jesus of Nazerath
>>>
>>
>> aspect of your version of religion, it is your verision of religion
>> that is wrong, not reality.
>
> beeeeppppp! wrong answer
Nope, reality takes precedence over religion, pretty basic concept, not
surprised that you don't comprehend it.
On a related note, when are you going to provide your explanation of how
Jesus was supposed to have been running around Nazareth when Nazareth didn't
exist at that time in history. I have asked several times and you always
fail to answer.
Mike L
> Mike L wrote:
> > On 6 July, 20:31, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmaill.et> wrote:
> >> Mike L wrote:
> >>> On 6 July, 15:18, "[M]adman" <nos...@hotmail.et> wrote:
> >>> [...]
>
> >>>> Evolution goes against the teachings of [*...] Jesus of Nazerath
>
> >>> You've mentioned this before. I'm ready to agree with the statement,
> >>> but I don't think you've ever given us the Bible reference for it.
> >>> Can you do so, please?
>
> >> I'll do my best.
>
> > [...references and quotations snipped...]
>
> >> Now... Are you still " ready to agree with the statement"?
>
> >> A yes or no will do.
>
> > I'll keep it moderately simple. Yes. But if so, I don't agree with
> > him.
>
> "Yes but if so I do not agree with him?"
>
> That is the reason why i do not take you nutsacks serious.
>
> I spent 30 minuets of my time showing you a clear example where the
> "original Christian" says "God created male and female"...
Yes, and, as I said, I appreciate the trouble you took: I've forgotten
a great deal of the Bible. In simple terms, I'm prepared to agree that
Jesus didn't believe in, still less teach about, the origin of species
by evolution. But I don't agree with him in that. My position may be
wrong, but there's nothing inconsistent or crazy about it.
>
> Which means you cannot believe God created and man evolved at the same time
> and be a true christian.
Well, I'm not one; but that looks like a "no true Scotsman" argument
to me. One bit of the Bible I haven't forgotten is where it says the
letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
>
> HTH
>
> > Thank you. This is, I think, the first time you've answered one of my
> > questions, and I appreciate your courtesy.
>
> >>>> *the original Christian, Jesus of Nazerath
>
> >>> (I excised this phrase from your sentence above not to mislead, but
> >>> in order to preserve the focus of my enquiry.) I imagine you know
> >>> that this is a controversial characterisation on more than one
> >>> ground
--
Mike.
Mitchell Coffey
> In article <madman-2xn4m.19546$Xw4.1...@bignews7.bellsouth.net>,
>
> "[M]adman" <nos...@hotmail.et> wrote:
> > Evolution goes against the teachings of the
> > original Christian, Jesus of Nazerath
>
You would want to be their when he took Communion.
Mitchell Coffey
Mitchell Coffey
> > Mark Evans <mev...@gcfn.org> wrote:
>
> > > > ...........
>
> > > Nope, not the oldest. I once worked with a guy who insisted that Noah
> > > was a christian. He was willing to let Adam and Eve slip by as sort
> > > of proto-Jews, but everyone else in the Old Testament was a christian.
>
> > > Mark Evans
>
> > But that is not far from the Christian claim of being the unique true
> > outgrowth of the Hebrew -- Jewish tradition.
>
> The fellow I knew insisted that the Jews were an off-shoot of the
> Catholic church. BTW, he had been "educated" in a religious school
> system.
Are you sure this wasn't one of those theological circumlocutions:
J
J
J
J
J
Real Jews Convert ---> C J
C J <--- Obstinate Deicides
Persist
C J
C J
C J
C J
Mitchell Coffey
[M]adman
What you think is real will only be real to you for less then 100 years
>
> On a related note, when are you going to provide your explanation of
> how Jesus was supposed to have been running around Nazareth when
> Nazareth didn't exist at that time in history. I have asked several
> times and you always fail to answer.
I have given that answer over and over. You guys have such little
understanding on subjects like this.
Nazerath was only a small village during the times of Jesus. Caves were used
as homes in some instances. At one point in the early history of Nazerath it
was used as a lookout point only because of it's elevation.
"The pottery remains testify to a continuous settlement during the period
600-900 BCE. After those years, there was a break in settlement until the
year 200 BCE."
http://www.inisrael.com/tour/nazareth/history.htm
There was much turmoil in Israel between 200 to 600 BC. and that is probably
why Nazareth (or what ever it was called back then) was not inhabited. Cyrus
the Great was taking over many countries during this time frame and the
small population of Nazareth may have moved to larger walled towns for
safety
Also:
" According to an inscription discovered in 1962 in Caesarea Maritima the
priests of the order of Elkalir made their home in Nazareth. This, by the
way, is the sole known reference to Nazareth in antiquity, apart from
written Christian sources... (next paragraph) Some scholars had even
believed that Nazareth was a fictitious invention of the early Christians;
_the inscription from Caesarea Maritima proves otherwise_ ." Paul
Barnett[BSNT], Behind the Scenes of the New Testament, IVP:1990, p.42:
"Nazareth was tiny, with two or three clans living in 35 homes spread over
2.5 hectares..." Like i said: Some of them even lived in the local caves.
The originals migrated there from Syria which is not that far away.
http://www.geocities.com/metagetics/Nazareth.html
As you can see, what you currently believe is propaganda. The place called
Nazareth was real.
It was probably first settled by the Cannities and called by another name;
I'm sure. I assume this because of how Nazareth's strategic location could
be used during times of war. The Cannities had many wars with other clans so
there is no reason think that Nazarath was not settled in one form or
another even before 600-900 BCE.
adman
Ye Old One
enriched this group when s/he wrote:
>Robert Weldon wrote:
>> "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmaill.et> wrote in message
>> news:madman-zds4m.19747$he4....@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
>>> Robert Weldon wrote:
>>>> "[M]adman" <nos...@hotmail.et> wrote in message
>>>> news:madman-2xn4m.19546$Xw4....@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
[snip]
>
>>
>> On a related note, when are you going to provide your explanation of
>> how Jesus was supposed to have been running around Nazareth when
>> Nazareth didn't exist at that time in history. I have asked several
>> times and you always fail to answer.
>
>I have given that answer over and over. You guys have such little
>understanding on subjects like this.
>
>Nazerath was only a small village during the times of Jesus.
No, it was a necropolis and rubbish tip.
> Caves were used
>as homes in some instances.
Nope, since it was a necropolis there was no human habitation of the
site.
>At one point in the early history of Nazerath it
>was used as a lookout point only because of it's elevation.
>
>"The pottery remains testify to a continuous settlement during the period
>600-900 BCE. After those years, there was a break in settlement until the
>year 200 BCE."
>http://www.inisrael.com/tour/nazareth/history.htm
>
>There was much turmoil in Israel between 200 to 600 BC. and that is probably
>why Nazareth (or what ever it was called back then) was not inhabited. Cyrus
>the Great was taking over many countries during this time frame and the
>small population of Nazareth may have moved to larger walled towns for
>safety
1) No ancient historians or geographers mention Nazareth before the
beginning of the fourth century [AD].
2) Nazareth is not mentioned in the Old Testament, the Talmud, nor in
the Apocrypha and it does not appear in any early rabbinic literature.
3) Nazareth was not included in the list of settlements of the tribes
of Zebulun (Joshua 19:10-16) which mentions twelve towns and six
villages.
4) Nazareth is not included among the 45 cities of Galilee that were
mentioned by Josephus (37AD-100AD).
5) Nazareth is also missing from the 63 towns of Galilee mentioned in
the Talmud.
>
>Also:
>
>" According to an inscription discovered in 1962 in Caesarea Maritima the
>priests of the order of Elkalir made their home in Nazareth. This, by the
>way, is the sole known reference to Nazareth in antiquity, apart from
>written Christian sources... (next paragraph) Some scholars had even
>believed that Nazareth was a fictitious invention of the early Christians;
>_the inscription from Caesarea Maritima proves otherwise_ ." Paul
>Barnett[BSNT], Behind the Scenes of the New Testament, IVP:1990, p.42:
Actually, no, it doesn't prove otherwise. That was AFTER the Jewish
war with the Romans from AD 66-70
>
>"Nazareth was tiny, with two or three clans living in 35 homes spread over
>2.5 hectares..." Like i said: Some of them even lived in the local caves.
>The originals migrated there from Syria which is not that far away.
>http://www.geocities.com/metagetics/Nazareth.html
>
>
>As you can see, what you currently believe is propaganda. The place called
>Nazareth was real.
Nobody has said it wasn't. However, it was NOT the home of your JC
because at that time it was not inhabited.
>
>It was probably first settled by the Cannities and called by another name;
>I'm sure. I assume this because of how Nazareth's strategic location could
>be used during times of war. The Cannities had many wars with other clans so
>there is no reason think that Nazarath was not settled in one form or
>another even before 600-900 BCE.
It was, however, not inhabited between about 100BC and 100AD.
>
>adman
--
Bob.
Mark Evans
> Robert Weldon wrote:
> > "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmaill.et> wrote in message
> >news:madman-zds4m.19747$he4....@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
> >> Robert Weldon wrote:
> >>> "[M]adman" <nos...@hotmail.et> wrote in message
> >>>news:madman-2xn4m.19546$Xw4....@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
>
>
> As you can see, what you currently believe is propaganda. The place called
> Nazareth was real.
>
> It was probably first settled by the Cannities and called by another name;
> I'm sure. I assume this because of how Nazareth's strategic location could
> there is no reason think that Nazarath was not settled in one form or
> another even before 600-900 BCE.
>
> adman
Incorrect answer. Its existence before 600 or 900 BC is not the
issue. It is existence around 0 BC that is the question.
Mark Evans
Hybrid Archangel of HaShem
> On Sun, 5 Jul 2009 18:56:46 -0400, Nashton wrote
> (in article <h2rbat$kc...@news.eternal-september.org>):
>
>
>
>
>
> > Chris wrote:
> >> On Jul 5, 2:18 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmaill.et> wrote:
> >>> Would you like to see how easy it is to become a clergy and sign a "clergy
> >>> letter project"?
>
> >>> There are thousands of sites those below.
>
> >>> You will know them by the fruit they produce.
>
> >>> Your cleargy letter project means squat.
> >>> ______________________________________________
>
>
> >> This is the logical fallacy of 'guilt by association'. Just as those
> >> evolutionists who claim all theists are morons
>
> > You just described 99.9% of this forum.
>
> Errm... nope. There are considerably less than 1000 regular posters here, and
> quite a few of us 'evolutionists' are theists and do not say anything of the
> kind.
Pray tell, from what did you evolve? You don't know, You are mind
wiped
into believing it. You never question it. You have been duped......
>
> But then _you_ are a creationist cretin, and therefore have problems with the
> truth, and with numbers.
I take offense to that....
I have a philosophic argument....see if you can deal with the truth,
and
numbers.
It's so simple I don't why nobody ever saw it.....
Islam and Israel exist. One cannot deny they do. Or they'd be a
fool.
And they both have an origin. An ancestral seed...
Again, can't be denied....
That seed, and origin, comes straight from the Torah....
That can't be denied....either.....
Genesis 16 , Islam..through the seed of a wild ass of a man child,
Ishmael.
Seed multiplied by a rogue Archangel of HaShem. The rogue borne
Islam.
His made a chosen 'suichomicidal' race...of wild ass Muslims...
Genesis 17, Israel....through Isaac....by HaShem....Israel. And His
made,
and chosen race....
That means the Scriptures are the Gospel Truth.....
Can't be denied......
P.s....
We are 99,5% Neanderthal genome. How the hell did that happen?
"And Cain knew his wife!"....
"And that's the truth.....RAAAAAAAAASPBERY"
(Lilly Tomlin)
>
> --
> email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Matt Silberstein
<chris.li...@gmail.com> in
<ff656e90-ccff-4fa1...@h31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
wrote:
>On Jul 6, 10:14 am, "[M]adman" <nos...@hotmail.et> wrote:
Chris, I don't use many killfile entries, but I do have several
whitefile entries and you are on the list. Because, except for your
responses to Madman your posts are worth reading. Please, stop adding
to the boredom of my life.
(OK, real boredom would be a welcome change.)
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
J.J. O'Shea
(in article
<4748d88a-193d-4c14...@c9g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>):
> Pray tell, from what did you evolve?
A now extinct hominid.
> You don't know,
I just told you.
> You are mind
> wiped
> into believing it.
You just contradicted yourself.
> You never question it. You have been duped......
I've got evidence. What have you got?
Ye Old One
<archangel...@gmail.com> enriched this group when s/he wrote:
>On Jul 5, 7:23 pm, "J.J. O'Shea" <try.not...@but.see.sig> wrote:
>> On Sun, 5 Jul 2009 18:56:46 -0400, Nashton wrote
>> (in article <h2rbat$kc...@news.eternal-september.org>):
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Chris wrote:
>> >> On Jul 5, 2:18 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmaill.et> wrote:
>> >>> Would you like to see how easy it is to become a clergy and sign a "clergy
>> >>> letter project"?
>>
>> >>> There are thousands of sites those below.
>>
>> >>> You will know them by the fruit they produce.
>>
>> >>> Your cleargy letter project means squat.
>> >>> ______________________________________________
>>
>> >> Wow. Nice try. But another swing and a miss.
>>
>> >> This is the logical fallacy of 'guilt by association'. Just as those
>> >> evolutionists who claim all theists are morons
>>
>> > You just described 99.9% of this forum.
>>
>> Errm... nope. There are considerably less than 1000 regular posters here, and
>> quite a few of us 'evolutionists' are theists and do not say anything of the
>> kind.
>
>Pray tell, from what did you evolve? You don't know, You are mind
>wiped
>into believing it. You never question it. You have been duped......
My parents were apes, my grand parents were apes, and it is the same
going back several million years.
>>
>> But then _you_ are a creationist cretin, and therefore have problems with the
>> truth, and with numbers.
>
>I take offense to that....
>
>I have a philosophic argument....see if you can deal with the truth,
>and
>numbers.
>
>It's so simple I don't why nobody ever saw it.....
>
>Islam and Israel exist. One cannot deny they do. Or they'd be a
>fool.
>And they both have an origin. An ancestral seed...
>
>Again, can't be denied....
>
>That seed, and origin, comes straight from the Torah....
>
>That can't be denied....either.....
Well, yes it can be.
>
>Genesis 16 , Islam..through the seed of a wild ass of a man child,
>Ishmael.
>Seed multiplied by a rogue Archangel of HaShem. The rogue borne
>Islam.
>His made a chosen 'suichomicidal' race...of wild ass Muslims...
You what?
>
>Genesis 17, Israel....through Isaac....by HaShem....Israel. And His
>made,
>and chosen race....
>
>That means the Scriptures are the Gospel Truth.....
Using biblical verses to claim the bible is true is a very stupid
thing to do.
>
>Can't be denied......
I deny it. The bible is fiction, nothing more.
>
>P.s....
>
>We are 99,5% Neanderthal genome.
No, we are not/
> How the hell did that happen?
>"And Cain knew his wife!"....
>
>"And that's the truth.....RAAAAAAAAASPBERY"
>(Lilly Tomlin)
Any chance of you growing up sometime soon?
--
Bob.
William Morse
> Klaus Hellnick <khel...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> wf3h wrote:
>> > On Jul 5, 2:18 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmaill.et> wrote:
>> >> Would you like to see how easy it is to become a clergy and sign a
>> >> "clergy letter project"?
>> >>
>> >> There are thousands of sites those below.
>> >>
>> >> You will know them by the fruit they produce.
>> >>
>> >> Your cleargy letter project means squat.
>> >> ______________________________________________
>> >>
>> >> Become an ordained minister almost immediately!
>> >>
>> >>
>> > actually it's faster than 'almost'. i myself am ordained in the
>> > 'universal life church'
>> >
>> > you can call me 'holiness'....
>> >
>> >
>> Church of Spiritual Humanism, myself.
>
> I am the Lead Profit of the Church of Chocoholism.
Heavy.
John S. Wilkins
He took nailbiting just that little bit too far...
--
John S. Wilkins, Philosophy, University of Sydney
http://evolvingthoughts.net
But al be that he was a philosophre,
Yet hadde he but litel gold in cofre
[M]adman
Cant you read?
"The pottery remains testify to a continuous settlement during the period
600-900 BCE.
_After those years_, there was a break in settlement *until* the year 200
BCE."
That means after the year 200 BCE (which would be from 200 BC to now, The
pottery remains testify to a continuous settlement during the period ) THAT
my dear Chief would include the year 0
http://www.inisrael.com/tour/nazareth/history.htm
Ya gots to lay of smoking those local herbs chief.
Ye Old One
enriched this group when s/he wrote:
>Cant you read?
>
>"The pottery remains testify to a continuous settlement during the period
>600-900 BCE.
That should be 900-600 BC.
>
>_After those years_, there was a break in settlement *until* the year 200
>BCE."
>
>That means after the year 200 BCE (which would be from 200 BC to now, The
>pottery remains testify to a continuous settlement during the period ) THAT
>my dear Chief would include the year 0
Please point out where it says that?
>
>http://www.inisrael.com/tour/nazareth/history.htm
>
>Ya gots to lay of smoking those local herbs chief.
>
It is now generally accepted that the Nazareth in Galilee was NOT
inhabited during the period. Though there may be another Nazareth
which was.
Mitchell Coffey
> MitchellCoffey<m.cof...@starpower.net> wrote:
> > On Jul 6, 12:55 pm, Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:
> > > In article <madman-2xn4m.19546$Xw4.1...@bignews7.bellsouth.net>,
>
> > > "[M]adman" <nos...@hotmail.et> wrote:
> > > > Evolution goes against the teachings of the
> > > > original Christian, Jesus of Nazerath
>
> > > Jesus took himself as his own personal saviour?
>
>
> He took nailbiting just that little bit too far...
Yucky Homo!
Mitchell
Walter Bushell
<406b7f89-0c41-4ebe...@r33g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
Mitchell Coffey <m.co...@starpower.net> wrote:
So Jesus opens and stands in the door where the Last Supper is being
held. All of his principle disciples are there and he sees the result of
a long ministry as he stands in the door the disciples all chant:
"Jesus Christ shut the door! Were you born in a barn!"
Walter Bushell
<97869183-8eb9-493a...@l31g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
Mitchell Coffey <m.co...@starpower.net> wrote:
> On Jul 6, 5:57锟絧m, Mark Evans <mev...@gcfn.org> wrote:
> > On Jul 6, 12:51锟絧m, Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:
> >
> > > In article
> > > <595623a7-3728-48ed-901f-53a58fa93...@i4g2000prm.googlegroups.com>,
> > > 锟組ark Evans <mev...@gcfn.org> wrote:
> >
> > > > > ...........
> >
> > > > Nope, not the oldest. 锟絀 once worked with a guy who insisted that Noah
> > > > was a christian. 锟紿e was willing to let Adam and Eve slip by as sort
> > > > of proto-Jews, but everyone else in the Old Testament was a christian.
> >
> > > > Mark Evans
> >
> > > But that is not far from the Christian claim of being the unique true
> > > outgrowth of the Hebrew -- Jewish tradition.
> >
> > The fellow I knew insisted that the Jews were an off-shoot of the
> > Catholic church. 锟紹TW, he had been "educated" in a religious school
> > system.
>
> Are you sure this wasn't one of those theological circumlocutions:
>
> J
> J
> J
> J
> J
> Real Jews Convert ---> C J
> C J <--- Obstinate Deicides
> Persist
> C J
> C J
> C J
> C J
>
> Mitchell Coffey
How can people blame the Jews, when the Gospels *clearly* state it was
the Italians.
Inez
learn something about science. The bible seems to be suggesting that
you ought to.
Walter Bushell
<0c523261-eff6-4ef6...@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
Mark Evans <mev...@gcfn.org> wrote:
> On Jul 6, 9:55�pm, Cory Albrecht <coryalbre...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > [M]adman wrote, on 09-07-06 08:55 PM:
> >
> >
> >
> > > Mark Evans wrote:
> > >> On Jul 6, 3:31 pm, "[M]adman"<ad...@hotmaill.et> �wrote:
> > >>> Mike L wrote:
> > >>>> On 6 July, 15:18, "[M]adman"<nos...@hotmail.et> �wrote:
> > >>>> [...]
> >
> > >>>>> Evolution goes against the teachings of [*...] Jesus of Nazerath
> >
> > >>>> You've mentioned this before. I'm ready to agree with the statement,
> > >>>> but I don't think you've ever given us the Bible reference for it.
> > >>>> Can you do so, please?
> >
> > >>> I'll do my best.
> >
> > >>> Now... Are you still " ready to agree with the statement"?
> >
> > >>> A yes or no will do.
> >
> > >>> adman
> >
> > >>>>> *the original Christian, Jesus of Nazerath
> >
> > >>>> (I excised this phrase from your sentence above not to mislead, but
> > >>>> in order to preserve the focus of my enquiry.) I imagine you know
> > >>>> that this is a controversial characterisation on more than one
> > >>>> ground.
> >
> > >> You are confusing what Jesus may or may not have said with what the
> > >> authors claiming to be his disciples are supposed �to have written
> > >> decades after the fact. �Please find us one solid reference to old
> > >> Josh's comments on anything.
> >
> > >> Mark Evans
> >
> > > Please state your reasons and evidence why the author, a disciple and
> > > friend
> > > that lived and traveled with Jesus would be lying
> >
> > Please state your evidence that the authors of the Gospels actually were
> > disciples and friends of Jesus and actually lived and travelled with him.
>
> Heck, we would be thrilled if he could post evidence that Jesus and
> his merry men actually existed.
>
> Mark Evans
Jesus Christ and His Merry Men in tights! A Mel Brooks Production