Harun Yahya offers prize for fossil proof of evolution
Jason Spaceman
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Toby Green
Monday, 29 September 2008
A controversial creationist who successfully campaigned for Richard
Dawkins' official website to be banned in Turkey has offered a
multitrillion- pound challenge to scientists.
Adnan Oktar said that he has "issued a call to all evolutionists" that
he will give "10 trillion Turkish lira to anyone who produces a single
intermediate-form fossil demonstrating evolution" – a sum roughly
equal to £4.4trn.
The Muslim writer, who uses the pen name Harun Yahya, is a fierce
critic of what he calls "the Darwinist dictatorship" and a popular
figure in his home country, where – according to a 2006 survey – only
a quarter of the population believe in Darwin's theory.
The 52-year-old former architecture student, who has been heavily
criticised in the West, claims there are no fossils to support
Darwinist theories. "Evolutionists are at a dead-end in the face of
the fossil record," he said. "Not one [fossil] belongs to
strange-looking creatures in the course of development of the kind
supposed by evolutionists." However, scientists reject his claims that
these fossils do not exist. Dr Kevin Padian at the University of
California told The New York Times that Mr Oktar "does not have any
sense of what we know about how things change through time. If he sees
a fossil crab, he says, 'It looks just like a regular crab, there's no
evolution,'" Dr Padian said. "Extinction does not seem to bother him."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Read it at
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/creationist-offers-prize-for-fossil-proof-of-evolution-945289.html
or http://tinyurl.com/4j3og7
J. Spaceman
r norman
The official name for the Turkish currency is YTL, for "New Turkish
Lire" (Yeni Türk Lirasi). I strongly suspect that this offer is in
terms of old Turkish Lire, one million times less. It still is a
multimillion dollar prize. I also strongly suspect that Oktar
(Harun Yahya) will easily reject any and all fossils as not being
truly "intermediate".
Boikat
>
> >Read it at
> >http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/creationist-offers-prize-fo...
> >orhttp://tinyurl.com/4j3og7
>
> The official name for the Turkish currency is YTL, for "New Turkish
> Lire" (Yeni Türk Lirasi). I strongly suspect that this offer is in
> terms of old Turkish Lire, one million times less. It still is a
> multimillion dollar prize. I also strongly suspect that Oktar
> (Harun Yahya) will easily reject any and all fossils as not being
> truly "intermediate.
Also, his prize money is safe because he probably gets to be the
judge.
Boikat
snex
wrote:
> orhttp://tinyurl.com/4j3og7
>
> J. Spaceman
since we already know that fraudulent fossils are only discovered as
such by real scientists, why not just submit a fraud? this clown
couldnt tell if his life depended on it.
then youd have the money AND the proof that he knows jack shit about
examining fossils.
Tiny Bulcher
<notrea...@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote:
> From the article:
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> By Toby Green
> Monday, 29 September 2008
>
> A controversial creationist who successfully campaigned for Richard
> Dawkins' official website to be banned in Turkey has offered a
> multitrillion- pound challenge to scientists.
>
> Adnan Oktar said that he has "issued a call to all evolutionists" that
> he will give "10 trillion Turkish lira to anyone who produces a single
> intermediate-form fossil demonstrating evolution" – a sum roughly
> equal to £4.4trn.
I thought he'd recanted? Can't he make what passes for his mind up?
Anyway, send him an Archie and watch him weasel.
TomS
<nt40e4dicvkc1mbnn...@4ax.com>, r norman stated..."
>
>On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 19:23:21 -0400, Jason Spaceman
><notr...@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote:
>
>>From the article:
>-
>>By Toby Green
>>Monday, 29 September 2008=20
>>
>>A controversial creationist who successfully campaigned for Richard
>>Dawkins' official website to be banned in Turkey has offered a
>>multitrillion- pound challenge to scientists.
>>
>>Adnan Oktar said that he has "issued a call to all evolutionists" that
>>he will give "10 trillion Turkish lira to anyone who produces a single
>>equal to =A34.4trn.
>>
>>The Muslim writer, who uses the pen name Harun Yahya, is a fierce
>>critic of what he calls "the Darwinist dictatorship" and a popular
>y
>>a quarter of the population believe in Darwin's theory.
>>
>>The 52-year-old former architecture student, who has been heavily
>>criticised in the West, claims there are no fossils to support
>>Darwinist theories. "Evolutionists are at a dead-end in the face of
>>the fossil record," he said. "Not one [fossil] belongs to
>>strange-looking creatures in the course of development of the kind
>>supposed by evolutionists." However, scientists reject his claims that
>>these fossils do not exist. Dr Kevin Padian at the University of
>>California told The New York Times that Mr Oktar "does not have any
>>sense of what we know about how things change through time. If he sees
>>a fossil crab, he says, 'It looks just like a regular crab, there's no
>>evolution,'" Dr Padian said. "Extinction does not seem to bother him."
>---------
>>
>>Read it at
>>http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/creationist-offers-prize-for-f=
>ossil-proof-of-evolution-945289.html
>>or http://tinyurl.com/4j3og7
>>
>
>The official name for the Turkish currency is YTL, for "New Turkish
>terms of old Turkish Lire, one million times less. It still is a
>multimillion dollar prize. I also strongly suspect that Oktar
>(Harun Yahya) will easily reject any and all fossils as not being
>truly "intermediate".
>
Thanks. I was wondering which "trillion" he meant - a million
million, or a million billion=million million million.
And I suppose that he intends to pay out the prize over time,
rather than a lump sum. One pound a year for 10 trillion years.
--
---Tom S.
"As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand."
attributed to Josh Billings
Muhterem
> On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 19:23:21 -0400, Jason Spaceman
>
>
>
> <notrea...@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote:
> >From the article:
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >By Toby Green
> >Monday, 29 September 2008
>
> >A controversial creationist who successfully campaigned for Richard
> >Dawkins' official website to be banned in Turkey has offered a
> >multitrillion- pound challenge to scientists.
>
> >Adnan Oktar said that he has "issued a call to all evolutionists" that
> >he will give "10 trillion Turkish lira to anyone who produces a single
> >equal to £4.4trn.
>
> >The Muslim writer, who uses the pen name Harun Yahya, is a fierce
> >critic of what he calls "the Darwinist dictatorship" and a popular
> >a quarter of the population believe in Darwin's theory.
>
> >The 52-year-old former architecture student, who has been heavily
> >criticised in the West, claims there are no fossils to support
> >Darwinist theories. "Evolutionists are at a dead-end in the face of
> >the fossil record," he said. "Not one [fossil] belongs to
> >strange-looking creatures in the course of development of the kind
> >supposed by evolutionists." However, scientists reject his claims that
> >these fossils do not exist. Dr Kevin Padian at the University of
> >California told The New York Times that Mr Oktar "does not have any
> >sense of what we know about how things change through time. If he sees
> >a fossil crab, he says, 'It looks just like a regular crab, there's no
> >evolution,'" Dr Padian said. "Extinction does not seem to bother him."
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> >Read it at
> >orhttp://tinyurl.com/4j3og7
>
> The official name for the Turkish currency is YTL, for "New Turkish
> Lire" (Yeni Türk Lirasi). I strongly suspect that this offer is in
> terms of old Turkish Lire, one million times less. It still is a
> multimillion dollar prize. I also strongly suspect that Oktar
> (Harun Yahya) will easily reject any and all fossils as not being
> truly "intermediate".
Yes You are right. This is not from rejection of any proof of
evolution, but because of no evidence for evolution since the
scientific fossil records was wrote. The scientist have found more
than one hundred million fossils and recorded them. but there is not
any fossil which support evolution scientificly. If there has been,
why evolutionist scientist try to show one pig tooth as a ancestor' of
human! Or why they have showed a hand made skull in British Museum
during forty years! Or why they try to inssit on one fish as a
uncestor of predators from see but ıt seems to live now on
(coelecanth!!!)?
So Adnan Oktar's money will be in his pocket upto the end of world.
Because scientist is saying that there is not any chance to find
different fossil to prove evolution.
Lee Jay
wrote:
> orhttp://tinyurl.com/4j3og7
>
> J. Spaceman
Quick - someone give him the front half of a dog and the back half of
a cat.
Lee Jay
Desertphile
> Adnan Oktar said that he has "issued a call to all evolutionists" that
Why only "evolutionists?"
> he will give "10 trillion Turkish lira to anyone who produces a single
> intermediate-form fossil demonstrating evolution" – a sum roughly
> equal to £4.4trn.
Golly, we've had those for over 100 years.
--
http://desertphile.org
Desertphile's Desert Soliloquy. WARNING: view with plenty of water
"Why aren't resurrections from the dead noteworthy?" -- Jim Rutz
Lord Vetinari
news:3047461e-ed04-4b09...@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 28, 7:37 pm, r norman <r_s_norman@_comcast.net> wrote:
> > On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 19:23:21 -0400, Jason Spaceman
> >
> >
> >
> > <notrea...@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote:
> > >From the article:
> > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >By Toby Green
> > >Monday, 29 September 2008
> >
> > >A controversial creationist who successfully campaigned for Richard
> > >Dawkins' official website to be banned in Turkey has offered a
> > >multitrillion- pound challenge to scientists.
> >
> > >Adnan Oktar said that he has "issued a call to all evolutionists" that
> > >he will give "10 trillion Turkish lira to anyone who produces a single
> > >intermediate-form fossil demonstrating evolution" - a sum roughly
> > >equal to £4.4trn.
> > >Read it at
> > >http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/creationist-offers-prize-fo...
> > >orhttp://tinyurl.com/4j3og7
> >
> > The official name for the Turkish currency is YTL, for "New Turkish
> > Lire" (Yeni Türk Lirasi). I strongly suspect that this offer is in
> > terms of old Turkish Lire, one million times less. It still is a
> > multimillion dollar prize. I also strongly suspect that Oktar
> > (Harun Yahya) will easily reject any and all fossils as not being
> > truly "intermediate".
>
> Yes You are right. This is not from rejection of any proof of
> evolution, but because of no evidence for evolution since the
> scientific fossil records was wrote.
Lovely. Now, where exactly is your evidence for this?
> The scientist have found more
> than one hundred million fossils and recorded them. but there is not
> any fossil which support evolution scientificly. If there has been,
> why evolutionist scientist try to show one pig tooth as a ancestor' of
> human! Or why they have showed a hand made skull in British Museum
> during forty years!
Why? To confuse _you_, of course. No other reason, I'm sure.
Try spending a bit of time reading on the subject....and not from
religion-based literature. You'll find answers, unlikely to please you, but
answers.
> Or why they try to inssit on one fish as a
> uncestor of predators from see but ýt seems to live now on
> (coelecanth!!!)?
I'm beginning to understand your problem! You're time-travelling, and you
haven't "had time" to catch up on the last hundred years of research.
> So Adnan Oktar's money will be in his pocket upto the end of world.
> Because scientist is saying that there is not any chance to find
> different fossil to prove evolution.
Name that scientist, son, name that scientist.
John Harshman
That's wrong. I could list thousands, but I will limit myself to
Archaeopteryx, Probainognathus, Tiktaalik, Autralopithecus afarensis,
Ambulocetus, Hyracotherium, Ichthyornis, Herrerasaurus, Homo erectus,
and Halkieria. That's 10.
> If there has been,
> why evolutionist scientist try to show one pig tooth as a ancestor' of
> human!
You refer to Hesperopithecus, quickly found to be an error, by an
evolutionist scientist.
> Or why they have showed a hand made skull in British Museum
> during forty years!
You refer to Eoanthropus, eventually found to be a fraud, by an
evolutionist scientist.
> Or why they try to inssit on one fish as a
> uncestor of predators from see but ?t seems to live now on
> (coelecanth!!!)?
You refer to some unstated coelacanth, which is a large group composed
of many species, mostly extinct. This is just like saying "If humans
descended from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?", which you
probably would say, but which is a fallacy. Perhaps you have cousins. If
your cousins are alive, does that mean you aren't descended from your
grandparents?
And you should know that nobody thinks anything living is descended from
coelacanths, except other coelacanths.
> So Adnan Oktar's money will be in his pocket upto the end of world.
Does he actually have that much money? Even so, if he's the judge, there
is no chance of winning, because the game is rigged.
> Because scientist is saying that there is not any chance to find
> different fossil to prove evolution.
What scientist is saying that? None that I know of.
If my English is too difficult for you, let me know. I don't speak Turkish.
Friar Broccoli
Can you explain why these fossils do not support evolution
scientifically?
STS 5
Mrs. Ples
Species: Australopithecus africanus
Age: 2.6 million years
Brain Size: 485cc
http://anthropology.si.edu/humanorigins/ha/sts5.html
STS 71
Species: Australopithecus africanus
Age: 2.5 million years
Brain Size: 428cc
http://anthropology.si.edu/humanorigins/ha/sts71.html
KNM ER 1813
Species: Homo habilis
Age: 1.9 million years
Brain Size: 510cc
http://anthropology.si.edu/humanorigins/ha/ER1813.html
KNM ER 1470
Species: Homo rudolfensis
Age: 1.8 million years
Brain Size: 775cc
http://anthropology.si.edu/humanorigins/ha/er1470.html
KNM ER 3733
Species: Homo ergaster
Age: 1.75 million years
Brain Size: 850 cc
http://anthropology.si.edu/humanorigins/ha/ER3733.html
KNM WT 15000
"The Turkana Boy"
Species: Homo ergaster
Age: 1.6 million years
Brain Size: 880cc/910cc
http://anthropology.si.edu/humanorigins/ha/WT15k.html
[A link to a rotatable skull is at the bottom of the page]
Peking Man
Species: Homo erectus
Age: 500-230 thousand years
Brain Size: 1043cc (average of 5 skulls)
http://anthropology.si.edu/humanorigins/ha/weid.html
"Rhodesian Man"
Species: Homo heidelbergensis
Age: 300-125 thousand years
Brain Size: 1300 cc
http://anthropology.si.edu/humanorigins/ha/brokenhill.htm
Skhul V
Species: Homo sapiens
Age: ~90,000 years
Brain Size: modern (~1350cc)
http://anthropology.si.edu/humanorigins/ha/skhul.html
Cro-Magnon 1
Species: Homo sapiens
Age: ~30,000 years
Brain Size: modern (~1350cc)
http://anthropology.si.edu/humanorigins/ha/cromagnon.html
Jablair
wrote:
> orhttp://tinyurl.com/4j3og7
>
> J. Spaceman
Has Oktar ever given a detailed definition of what he would consider a
transitional fossil? Is it the normal "a fish that changed into a
bird" nonsense as normal?
Augray
wrote in
<3047461e-ed04-4b09...@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com> :
Had the Solenhofen quarries been commissioned — by august command
— to turn out a strange being a la Darwin — it could not have
executed the behest more handsomely — than in the
Archeopteryx[sp].
- Hugh Falconer, in a letter to Darwin. 1863.
And in the almost 150 years since then, that has not changed. Feel
free to prove Falconer wrong.
>If there has been,
>why evolutionist scientist try to show one pig tooth as a ancestor' of
>human!
Who was that?
>Or why they have showed a hand made skull in British Museum
>during forty years!
"Hand made skull"?
>Or why they try to inssit on one fish as a
>uncestor of predators from see but ?t seems to live now on
>(coelecanth!!!)?
>So Adnan Oktar's money will be in his pocket upto the end of world.
He doesn't *have* the money.
>Because scientist is saying that there is not any chance to find
>different fossil to prove evolution.
Absolutely false.
TomS
<jLaEk.1264$W06...@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com>, John Harshman stated..."
My favorite is Morganucodon.
Robert Carnegie
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> By Toby Green
> Monday, 29 September 2008
>
> A controversial creationist who successfully campaigned for Richard
> Dawkins' official website to be banned in Turkey has offered a
> multitrillion- pound challenge to scientists.
>
> Adnan Oktar said that he has "issued a call to all evolutionists" that
> he will give "10 trillion Turkish lira to anyone who produces a single
> intermediate-form fossil demonstrating evolution" – a sum roughly
> equal to £4.4trn.
If he came by the money other than honestly and morally, then morally
it isn't his money to give or yours to take. Of course also he may
not /have/ the money. I'd treat this like you'd treat an e-mail from
Nigeria about a United Nations banker who died with the deposit-box
keys in his pocket and coincientally has the same name as you.
Indeed would it amuse somebody (or has it already) to keep a list of
these unfulfilled promises - not the Nigerian thing, but the prize?
Perhaps a Reward Assets Never Disbursed Inventory? ;-)
John Harshman
Nice too. I left it out because it's more or less redundant with
Probainognathus for the features of interest. It was a short,
idiosyncratic list. Anyone else could easily come up with a
non-overlapping list of 10. I've been shamelessly prejudiced against
non-vertebrates, for example.