why did birds survive the extinction?
Matt
(or the descendants of birds, whatever they were at that point), survive
the extinction? How were they more fitted for survival vs the other avian
dinosaurs? Thanks.
SJAB1958
why do lemmings continue to survive when every now and again so many
of them commit mass suicide?
Daoud
Ernest Major
<n...@tell.com> writes
I assume that you mean versus non-avian dinosaurs.
Not all birds survived the K-T extinction; some major clades of birds
did go extinct.
We can't tell at this remove exactly why one lineage survived and
another didn't, but there are a number of features that are shared by
the survivors of mass extinctions. One of these is small size, and the
majority of non-avian dinosaurs were relatively large.
--
alias Ernest Major
Kermit
Not all survived, of course. The reason some birds survived but not
the *other dinosaurs is:
1. mobility - they can travel far and fast for their size, and
2. They're small - they don't eat much.
3. During the first few awful days, the small ones were better able to
hide.
Think of a fire / blast / acid rain disaster, smoking apocalypse, dead
bodies, cities in ruins...
It's so dark all of the plants die off, and maybe only the species
that can reproduce from seed after a year or two bounce back. What do
T. rexes eat? Big herbivores. But if they're all scavanged or rotten
after 6 months, the big carnivores are in trouble. The big herbivores,
too. The trees and ferns and stuff die off. But some 1 kg seed eaters,
scavangers, or even soft leaf eaters might make it on the remnants
they find.
I can imagine sea gulls, mice, crows, and maybe dogs surviving from
dumpsters for a year, but not elephants and lions.
I remember Gould saying that everything over 55 pounds (25 kg) went
extinct. That doesn't mean that every species under that mass
survived, or course.
Kermit
Matt
Hey, how did you get my username? I didn't think they could be
duplicated here. Huh, guess I'll have to come up with something more
original.
Matt (the real one)
SJAB1958
Ah but it looks like it, you get a massive population explosion, food
source depletion and then off they go looking for a new area to feed
in, crossing small streams and rivers, they just keep on going and
then they get to a river or lake they cant cross and countless
lemmings die.
Or perhaps they are under the influence of the FSM, who knows?
Dana Tweedy
"Matt" <matthew.j...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1176486252.1...@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
You aren't a quadruple amputee, who lies in front of a door, are you?
DJT
Mark Isaak
When the fireball from the meteor passed over, the penguins, being the
best birds, were under water and so survived. Afterwards, they
diversified into all the other kinds of birds.
(I do hope nobody takes this seriously.)
--
Mark Isaak eciton (at) earthlink (dot) net
"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of
the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are
being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and
exposing the country to danger." -- Hermann Goering
Matt
> "Matt" <matthew.james.n...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Nah, that would be my good buddy 'Mat'
I am apparently suffering from multiple personalities. Nice to know
I've got a scapegoat, though, in case I post drunk.
Matt (not an amputee at all, actually)
Matt
> Op Fri, 13 Apr 2007 10:44:12 -0700, schreef Matt:
"Here" is where I am.
-Matt
SJAB1958
Ah ha, existentialism! Actually you are there and I am here.
SJAB1958
> On Apr 13, 1:49 pm, "Dana Tweedy" <reddfr...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Matt" <matthew.james.n...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:1176486252.1...@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > On Apr 13, 10:45 am, Matt <n...@tell.com> wrote:
> > >> sorry for the noob question, but i've long wondered this. Why did birds
> > >> (or the descendants of birds, whatever they were at that point), survive
> > >> the extinction? How were they more fitted for survival vs the other
> > >> avian
> > >> dinosaurs? Thanks.
>
> > > Hey, how did you get my username? I didn't think they could be
> > > duplicated here. Huh, guess I'll have to come up with something more
> > > original.
>
> > > Matt (the real one)
>
> > You aren't a quadruple amputee, who lies in front of a door, are you?
>
> > DJT
>
> Nah, that would be my good buddy 'Mat'
>
situation called Russell and Bob?
> I am apparently suffering from multiple personalities. Nice to know
> I've got a scapegoat, though, in case I post drunk.
>
> Matt (not an amputee at all, actually)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
WuzYoungOnceToo
I am he as you are he
As you are me and we are all together
See how they run like pigs from a gun
See how they fly
I'm crying
Bob Casanova
talk.origins, posted by "Matt"
<matthew.j...@gmail.com>:
Right; centered between and about two inches behind your
eyes. We're all "here".
--
Bob C.
"Evidence confirming an observation is
evidence that the observation is wrong."
- McNameless
David Iain Greig
Google n'est pas USENET.
--D. 'who defines what 'here' means here'
--
david iain greig dgr...@ediacara.org
moderator, talk.origins sp4 kox
http://www.ediacara.org/~dgreig arbor plena alouattarum
Klaus
They were small and probably numerous.
They were probably widepread.
They were highly mobile.
Klaus
Walter Bushell
Mark Isaak <eci...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 15:45:01 +0000, Matt wrote:
>
> > sorry for the noob question, but i've long wondered this. Why did birds
> > (or the descendants of birds, whatever they were at that point), survive
> > the extinction? How were they more fitted for survival vs the other avian
> > dinosaurs? Thanks.
>
> When the fireball from the meteor passed over, the penguins, being the
> best birds, were under water and so survived. Afterwards, they
> diversified into all the other kinds of birds.
>
> (I do hope nobody takes this seriously.)
Are penguins the best dinos?
Ken Shackleton
Great explanation...however, I have heard this number too, and I have
to wonder about crocodilians. Many of them are far larger than 25 kgs
today...apparently only the little ones survived?
Ken
>
> Kermit
Bobby Bryant
Matt <n...@tell.com> writes:
I think God vetoed the extinction of the birds, because he knew his
children just couldn't properly appreciate a creation without parrots
and penquins.
--
Bobby Bryant
Reno, Nevada
Remove your hat to reply by e-mail.
Bobby Bryant
"Kermit" <unrestra...@hotmail.com> writes:
> On Apr 13, 8:45 am, Matt <n...@tell.com> wrote:
>> sorry for the noob question, but i've long wondered this. Why did birds
>> (or the descendants of birds, whatever they were at that point), survive
>> the extinction? How were they more fitted for survival vs the other avian
>> dinosaurs? Thanks.
>
> Not all survived, of course. The reason some birds survived but not
> the *other dinosaurs is:
> 1. mobility - they can travel far and fast for their size, and
> 2. They're small - they don't eat much.
> 3. During the first few awful days, the small ones were better able to
> hide.
If you watch cartoons, you know that birds have extraordinary survival
skills.
Bobby Bryant
Free Lunch
bdbr...@wherever.ur (Bobby Bryant) wrote in
<CPVTh.3405$2v1....@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net>:
*meep* *meep*
rip...@azonic.co.nz
> Think of a fire / blast / acid rain disaster, smoking apocalypse, dead
> bodies, cities in ruins...
Is that Dinosaur cities or Bird cities that were in ruins ?
Nic
It's a horrible vision. I'm imagining birds fluttering over the dead
bodies, whilst the other animals had to go round.
John Wilkins
> In article <1ANTh.1887$Pq5....@bignews6.bellsouth.net>,
> Matt <n...@tell.com> writes:
>
> > sorry for the noob question, but i've long wondered this. Why did
> > birds (or the descendants of birds, whatever they were at that
> > point), survive the extinction? How were they more fitted for
> > survival vs the other avian dinosaurs? Thanks.
>
> I think God vetoed the extinction of the birds, because he knew his
> children just couldn't properly appreciate a creation without parrots
> and penquins.
Besides, one part of God is a dove, right?
--
John S. Wilkins, Postdoctoral Research Fellow, Biohumanities Project
University of Queensland - Blog: scienceblogs.com/evolvingthoughts
"He used... sarcasm. He knew all the tricks, dramatic irony, metaphor,
bathos, puns, parody, litotes and... satire. He was vicious."
Walter Bushell
rip...@Azonic.co.nz wrote:
When those iridium enriched hydrogen fusion reactors went it wiped 'em
all out, can't tell now.
loua...@yahoo.com
I know of no scientist who claims this, but I've always suspected that
the reason small, numerous birds and small, numerous mammals survived
K/T is that there were huge amounts of dead dinosaur carrion (some of
it frozen) around to tide them over until the ecosystem got going
again.
Matt
I guess that would all depend on whether or not you actually exist, or
if you are simply a manifestation of my mind. Or maybe I should just
go over to alt.drugs.psychadelic...
Kermit
Sigh. I read that ~20 years ago. I have all of his "for lay people"
books, but they're not searchable by computer. That factoid could have
been in any of his columns/essays.
I have wondered about this also. Any crocodileologists out there? I
*would think that small crocodilian species could scale up pretty
easily, but why hurry? Every else that they might eat was small for
millions of years afterwards.
Kermit
SJAB1958
being a supernatural being myself that means that you are a
manifestation of my warped imagination. lol
Matt
He's mentioned Bob before. Art and Phil are a couple of other friends
of his. Phil's somehow involved in landscaping.
-Matt
John Harshman
> sorry for the noob question, but i've long wondered this. Why did birds
> (or the descendants of birds, whatever they were at that point), survive
> the extinction? How were they more fitted for survival vs the other avian
> dinosaurs? Thanks.
>
Nobody knows. Here is one reasonable theory:
Robertson, D. S., M. C. McKenna, O. B. Toon, S. Hope, and J. A.
Lillegraven. 2004. Survival in the first hours of the Cenozoic. GSA
Bulletin 116:760-768.
The message is that animals survived if they were able to keep out of
view of the sky for an hour or two at the right time. Aquatic or small
animals could hide under water or large objects. Big animals were
screwed. This is because the IR pulse caused by the heat or re-entry for
billions of tiny impact fragments would broil anything not protected.
Even a few inches of water or soil would have been enough.
Bob Casanova
talk.origins, posted by John Harshman
<jharshman....@pacbell.net>:
Interesting idea. FYI, the paper is available at:
http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~presto/cenozoic.pdf