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From: Zeus Thibault <zthiba...@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics - Evolutionist Hand Waving->Mission Impossible
Date: 8 Feb 2001 16:18:02 -0500
Organization: University of Colorado at Boulder
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Mike Goodrich wrote:

> <ghostv...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:95rqn6$hu4$1@nnrp1.deja.com... 

>> In article <PFbg6.242993$j6.33518...@news1.rdc1.va.home.com>,
"Mike Goodrich" 
>> <tachyon...@home.com> wrote:

>>> "Stephen Poley" <sbpo...@xs4all.nl> wrote in message 

>>>> Given the increase in 
>>>> complexity from simple inorganic compounds like water and
carbon dioxide, to 
>>>> simple organic compounds like formaldehyde, to amino acids,
to proteins, to 
>>>> RNA/DNA, to genes, to chromosomes, to cells - where exactly
is the break 
>>>> that cannot be bridged?
>>> 
>>> Try considering irreducible complexity.  It would appear to
as good a name 
>>> or concept about that diving line as we have at present.
>>> 
>> Not really, since IC systems have been shown to be able to
arise in a 
>> stepwise fashion, there is not really a "diving line" IC as
reliable evidence 
>> of ID has been clearly disproven per Behe's standard.
> 
> Nope.  Never been "shown", only merely conjectured.

Hi Mike, glad to see you're still kickin' :)

Actually, we have witnessed the evolution of a novel metabolic
pathway in a bacteria, Sphingomonas.  This bacteria has, in the
past 40 years at most, become able to use pentachlorophenol(PCP)
as its sole carbon source.  PCP is a manmade, very unnatural
product.  The metabolic degradation pathway it uses consists of
three new enzymes.  Removing any one of the three causes the
organism to lose the ability to live on PCP.  Thus, it qualifies
as IC by the Behe criteria.  Even "Mike Gene," the active IC and
ID proponent at the Access Research Network Intelligent Design
Forum has conceded that this is "a very neat example" of an IC
system which has evolved gradually.  (Although to be fair Gene
does not find this to be evidence that more complex IC systems
have evolved gradually - a piece of logic I cannot follow).  

Copley, S. D. (2000). "Evolution of a metabolic pathway for
degradation of a toxic xenobiotic: the patchwork approach."
Trends Biochem Sci 25(6): 261-5.

It is a good article by one of my profs, a great woman and a key
figure in elucidating this metabolic pathway and how it evolved. 
If you can't get it I will send you the PDF personally if you
would like.

Cheers,

Z