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Dr. Kleinman's ideas on how birds arose.

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chris thompson

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Apr 23, 2012, 4:45:13 PM4/23/12
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Dr. Kleinman:

In a response to this post, please tell us how birds arose- not where
baby birds come from.

Did birds evolve from some other group? Obviously, according to you,
they did not evolve from reptiles.

Were they created _ex nihilo_?

Chris

Bob Berger

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Apr 23, 2012, 11:03:37 PM4/23/12
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In article <cbd4521d-51d5-4d2f...@v22g2000vby.googlegroups.com>,
chris thompson says...
It's occurred to me that the good Dr Dr may not be able to construct a rational
response to your question. Too many swigs from the old Klein bottle.

chris thompson

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Apr 23, 2012, 11:25:47 PM4/23/12
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On Apr 23, 11:03 pm, Bob Berger <Bob_mem...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> In article <cbd4521d-51d5-4d2f-b206-56173f945...@v22g2000vby.googlegroups.com>,
<shrug>

He said he would post his ideas in a new thread. I gave him the venue.

But being a cowardly liar (is there any other kind?) I don't expect
him to post anything here, other than, perhaps "baby birds come from
eggs" or some other such inane crap.

Chris

RichD

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Apr 23, 2012, 11:54:05 PM4/23/12
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Belief in ornithology is mathematically irrational.


--
RIch

Jeffrey Turner

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Apr 24, 2012, 12:14:21 AM4/24/12
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If birds exist, why are there still eggs? Does the Easter bunny have
anything to do with it?

--Jeff

John S. Wilkins

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Apr 24, 2012, 12:15:01 AM4/24/12
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Mathematics is to medicine as ornithology is to birds.

--
John S. Wilkins, Associate, Philosophy, University of Sydney
http://evolvingthoughts.net
But al be that he was a philosophre,
Yet hadde he but litel gold in cofre

Richard Norman

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Apr 24, 2012, 12:36:48 AM4/24/12
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On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 14:15:01 +1000, jo...@wilkins.id.au (John S.
Wilkins) wrote:

>RichD <r_dela...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On Apr 23, chris thompson <chris.linthomp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Dr. Kleinman:
>> > In a response to this post, please tell us how birds arose- not where
>> > baby birds come from.
>> > Did birds evolve from some other group? Obviously, according to you,
>> > they did not evolve from reptiles.
>> > Were they created _ex nihilo_?
>>
>> Belief in ornithology is mathematically irrational.
>>
>Mathematics is to medicine as ornithology is to birds.

Surprisingly, nobody seems to have yet mentioned the superior order of
organisms mathematically irrationally derived from reptiles: the
Sphenisciformes.

John Harshman

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Apr 24, 2012, 1:03:37 AM4/24/12
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John S. Wilkins wrote:
> RichD <r_dela...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On Apr 23, chris thompson <chris.linthomp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Dr. Kleinman:
>>> In a response to this post, please tell us how birds arose- not where
>>> baby birds come from.
>>> Did birds evolve from some other group? Obviously, according to you,
>>> they did not evolve from reptiles.
>>> Were they created _ex nihilo_?
>> Belief in ornithology is mathematically irrational.
>>
> Mathematics is to medicine as ornithology is to birds.
>
Does that cryptic analogy have anything to do with ravens and writing desks?

John Harshman

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Apr 24, 2012, 1:04:24 AM4/24/12
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Not just irrational, but transcendental.

John S. Wilkins

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Apr 24, 2012, 7:34:12 AM4/24/12
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http://evolvingthoughts.net/2010/12/attacks-on-philosophy-by-scientists/
para 3.

Ron O

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Apr 24, 2012, 8:06:52 AM4/24/12
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On Apr 23, 11:15 pm, j...@wilkins.id.au (John S. Wilkins) wrote:
> RichD <r_delaney2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Apr 23,  chris thompson <chris.linthomp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Dr. Kleinman:
> > > In a response to this post, please tell us how birds arose- not where
> > > baby birds come from.
> > > Did birds evolve from some other group? Obviously, according to you,
> > > they did not evolve from reptiles.
> > > Were they created _ex nihilo_?
>
> > Belief in ornithology is mathematically irrational.
>
> Mathematics is to medicine as ornithology is to birds.

Shouldn't this be "medical mathematics is for the birds?"

>
> --
> John S. Wilkins, Associate, Philosophy, University of Sydneyhttp://evolvingthoughts.net

Rolf

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Apr 24, 2012, 11:47:17 AM4/24/12
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I dont care as long as we have http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEeISJ0wr48

Rolf, 'Bird' lover.


Jeffrey Turner

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Apr 24, 2012, 4:26:18 PM4/24/12
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My broker has warned me to stay away from derivatives for the time
being.

--Jeff

chris thompson

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Apr 24, 2012, 4:39:00 PM4/24/12
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On Apr 23, 4:45 pm, chris thompson <chris.linthomp...@gmail.com>
wrote:
What? Still no answer from that eminent research biologist, Kleinman,
MD PhD?

You know, after I finished my undergrad degree I spent a stint working
at Rockefeller University, home of some of the most renowned medical
and biology researchers in the world- Donald Griffin, Robert Sapolsky,
Fernando Nottebohm and Roger Payne among them (those are the
biologists- I worked in Howard Kunkel's lab, in Immunology).

I found that the MD PhD students were about evenly divided between
brilliant, motivated, caring and meticulous people....and ass-wipes.

When a particularly bad student left Donald Griffin's lab to go to
medical school, he said to me "Medicine's loss is biology's gain".

Somehow, that makes me think of the Dr.Dr.

Chris

Mitchell Coffey

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Apr 24, 2012, 5:30:37 PM4/24/12
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On Apr 24, 4:39 pm, chris thompson <chris.linthomp...@gmail.com>
Dr. Dr. makes Caribbean Medical Colleges look bad.

Mitchell

chris thompson

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Apr 25, 2012, 12:41:49 PM4/25/12
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On Apr 23, 4:45 pm, chris thompson <chris.linthomp...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Now Dr. Kleinman thinks other people should be posting their thoughts
on the origin of birds rather than him, despite the fact that he said
he would do so in a separate thread.

Is anyone surprised he's such a coward?

Chris

Frank Smith

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Apr 25, 2012, 2:16:10 PM4/25/12
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On Apr 23, 4:45 pm, chris thompson <chris.linthomp...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Kleinman is evidently unwilling or unable to answer such questions.
(They do involve biology, after all.) But inferences are possible.

In <https://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/ac58a8bdd8842e87?
hl=en>
he stated "all birds share at least two common ancestors, a mama and a
papa."

The plain meaning of this claim is that all birds have the same two
parents. So we can begin with:

Kleinman's Model of Avian Reproduction
Somewhere, there is a _humongous_ nest with two birds. (Storks,
presumably, nesting atop the chimney of Santa Claus's house.) The mama
bird spends all her time laying eggs while the papa bird flies all
over the world delivering the eggs to good little birdies everywhere.
And that's where baby birds come from.

Of course, that fails to answer the question of how birds first arose.
Fortunately, simple logic might suffice.

Kleinman's Theorem of Avian Origins
(A) All birds are descended from other birds. (Possibly Mama and Papa
Stork, as above. But anyway certainly not from any non-bird ancestor!)
(B) Birds currently exist. (Maybe someone pointed to a winged
feathered critter once and said "Look Alan! A birdie!" And that's all
he needs to know about ornithology.)
Therefore:
(C) Birds have always existed. There was no time when birds did not
exist. Hence the question of where birds as a group came from is
meaningless. All mathematical and empirical evidence (*) agrees with
this conclusion.

(*) By "all mathematical and empirical evidence", Kleinman means
anything he can misinterpret as supporting his opinion. He either
ignores or chooses to remain ignorant about everything else.


RichD

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Apr 26, 2012, 11:39:14 PM4/26/12
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On Apr 23, chris thompson <chris.linthomp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >Dr. Kleinman:
> > >In a response to this post, please tell us how birds arose-
>
> > >Did birds evolve from some other group? Obviously,
> > >according to you, they did not evolve from reptiles.
> > >Were they created _ex nihilo_?
>
> He said he would post his ideas in a new thread.
> But being a cowardly liar (is there any other kind?)

"For the aim of the liar is simply to charm, to delight,
to give pleasure. He is the very basis of civilised society,
and without him a dinner party, even at the mansions of
the great, is as dull as a lecture at the Royal Society"

- Oscar Wilde: "The Decay of Lying"

--
Rich

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