So, to sum up (creation science special).....
Ilas
ago (although life only started 6000 years ago. Or possibly more). The
world was created in 7 days which lasted 24 hours and several million
years each.
Adam and Eve were in a garden, surrounded by vegetarian lions and
dinosaurs, but they sinned and tainted the whole of the future human race
by eating something that god hadn't bothered to tell them they shouldn't
eat. They then had sex with their sons and daughters, which was fine with
god, and started to populate the earth.
After a while, there was a flood, which reached the tops of all the
mountains we see now and didn't reach the tops of all the mountains we
see now and also didn't need to reach the top of all the mountains
because they were different and much smaller then. The water for that
flood definitely came from the deep and definitely came from a canopy of
water surrounding the earth. The flood killed everyone on Earth except
Noah and his family. The Chinese didn't notice, despite being killed by
the flood.
Noah survived the flood, along with his close relatives (who had a treat
from Noah in store!), in a humungous boat that was rectangular but also
like a modern day barge and that floated perfectly in seas that would
make Katrina look like a light breeze. He also managed to get two and
seven of all animals onto his boat by taking baby dinosaurs (which
subsequently died out thousands of years ago, in the last century, but
are still alive). Kangaroos (either two or seven) set off from Australia,
which didn't exist then, so they didn't have to set off from Australia,
and turned up just as check in was closing, along with several million
species of beetle. Noah was really not impressed.
After the flood, Noah (who was 800 years old) got drunk and had sex with
his close relatives, which was ok with god. They then killed and ate some
of the animals they'd spent the last arduous year protecting, and spread
out around the world, whereupon about 8 of them built the pyramids,
possibly whilst watching kangaroos heading back to Australia (which was
there by then). The Chinese, meanwhile, who were all dead, didn't notice
they were all dead, didn't notice Earth's repopulation, and carried on
regardless.
After the flood receded, there were lots of drowned cities. These cities,
which are in most cases natural formations and not cities but are cities,
are still underwater, which is proof that there was a flood that receded.
The Grand Canyon also formed at this time, and the debris that such a
cataclysm created was carted off by god (probably to make a temporary
bridge for the kangaroos heading back to Australia)
Micro evolution does and doesn't exist, so species (which are the same as
"kinds" and aren't the same as "kinds") are immutable. They also evolve
within their "kind". A species (or "kind") is a subgroup that can only
breed with others of the same species (or "kind"), except for wolves and
dogs.
The astonishingly close genetic make up of animals is a result of
intelligent design, whereby prototypes are made first by the all-powerful
god who can do anything he wants in the blink of an eye and make it
perfect but in this case doesn't. God then takes those prototypes (making
sure to keep those parts of the design that will make life a misery for
so many) and makes other animals, including humans. The proof of this is
the bacterial flagellum, which can only be explained by ID (and
evolution).
All this is definitely true because Wernher von Braun, who is the bestest
scientist in all the world ever and definitely not a Nazi war criminal,
was religious and didn't seem to believe the creation story, and because
Darwin married his cousin.
Phew! Think I managed that without any contradictions
wf3h
> The world was created 6000 years ago, as well as several billion years
> ago (although life only started 6000 years ago. Or possibly more). The
> world was created in 7 days which lasted 24 hours and several million
> years each.
masterpiece! now we just need to get this into the public schools so
they can learn the truth.
i can hardly wait for our resident creationists to add their 2 cents.
Burkhard
I think this is a grossly unfair simplification. Darwin did not marry
any old cousin, it was his _first_ cousin.This is a much stronger
proof that the ToE is false than your strawman, because no other of
the people God ordered in the Bible to marry their first cousins
_ever_ wrote a book about evolution. So there you have it.
And now I have to find a way to get all the coffee out of my nose that
got there when laughing and drinking at he same time, you bxxxxd ;o)
J. J. Lodder
Wrong, you haven't paid attention.
Von Braun definitely wasn't a scientist
because he had a PhD in physics,
which proves that he was an aeronautical engineer,
Jan
raven1
wrote:
>The world was created 6000 years ago, as well as several billion years
>ago (although life only started 6000 years ago. Or possibly more). The
>world was created in 7 days which lasted 24 hours and several million
>years each.
>
>Adam and Eve were in a garden, surrounded by vegetarian lions and
>dinosaurs, but they sinned and tainted the whole of the future human race
>by eating something that god hadn't bothered to tell them they shouldn't
>eat.
Yes, he did. Otherwise, well done.
Mike Dworetsky
news:1j414k4.1hv...@de-ster.xs4all.nl...
So we are very close to a Godwin and a Salem in this thread without even
hardly trying! Well, not quite a true Godwin because Von Braun really was a
Nazi....when it suited him.
--
Mike Dworetsky
(Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply)
alextangent
Or any evidence, bravo! Expect replies.
Wilkins will find some comfort in a pun or two, probably around the
kangaroo references. Ye Old One will ask for a cite or three, and r
norman will simply ignore it; it, after all, it doesn't contain one
iota of biology and it wasn't written by Sean Pitman. wf3h will ignore
your careful use of capitals and suggest that adam and eve and noah
are just bronze age characters in the bible and who is thsi god person
anyway. Friar Brocolli will forget to add it to the POTM if it is
nominated, and add it anyway if it isn't. Mike Dworetsky will finally
remove his pants, while John Harshman won't reply as Ray Martinez says
he's on the run.
On the other side, Suzanne will point out the fallacies in your
argument, as she is old enough and personally spoke to Noah about
rainbows and light emissions. Ray will point out that you are just a
miserable atheistic evilutionist taking the piss. nando knew you were
going to post this, and that it contradicts his theory of inanimate
free will. Madman will return with an explosion of posting diarrhea,
links to Atlantis sites and obscene references to parts of your
anatomy. Nashton will simply point out that you should go back and
read the bible as a science book, given the size of the grant you
received to write this up. Great Dayne may even make an appearance and
ask you for the photos back so he can give them to the judge.
Me? I'll keep quiet.
John S. Wilkins
<tuneless whistling>
--
John S. Wilkins, Philosophy, University of Sydney
http://evolvingthoughts.net
But al be that he was a philosophre,
Yet hadde he but litel gold in cofre
J. J. Lodder
It suited Uncle Sam, (Ting!) who forgave him,
which proves that he had god on his side,
which in turn proves that he must have been head of NASA,
for otherwise Americans couldn't have walked on the moon,
which of course they never did.
Are we full circle yet?
Jan
J. J. Lodder
For a moment I felt sure that I had heard your one hand not clapping,
Jan
Steven L.
> The world was created 6000 years ago, as well as several billion years
> ago (although life only started 6000 years ago. Or possibly more). The
> world was created in 7 days which lasted 24 hours and several million
> years each.
>
> Adam and Eve were in a garden, surrounded by vegetarian lions and
> dinosaurs, but they sinned and tainted the whole of the future human race
> by eating something that god hadn't bothered to tell them they shouldn't
> eat.
He did warn them in advance.
But a talking serpent created by God, talked Eve into eating that fruit.
Then she talked Adam into eating it too.
> They then had sex with their sons and daughters, which was fine with
> god, and started to populate the earth.
You omitted some important details here.
When Adam and Eve sinned, God got very angry. He turned some of the
vegetarian dinosaurs into carnivores, which He sent to chase Adam and
Eve out of the Garden of Eden. [Yes, that's what creationists have said]
>
> After a while, there was a flood, which reached the tops of all the
> mountains we see now and didn't reach the tops of all the mountains we
> see now and also didn't need to reach the top of all the mountains
> because they were different and much smaller then. The water for that
> flood definitely came from the deep and definitely came from a canopy of
> water surrounding the earth. The flood killed everyone on Earth except
> Noah and his family. The Chinese didn't notice, despite being killed by
> the flood.
>
> Noah survived the flood, along with his close relatives (who had a treat
> from Noah in store!), in a humungous boat that was rectangular but also
> like a modern day barge and that floated perfectly in seas that would
> make Katrina look like a light breeze. He also managed to get two and
> seven of all animals onto his boat by taking baby dinosaurs (which
> subsequently died out thousands of years ago, in the last century, but
> are still alive). Kangaroos (either two or seven) set off from Australia,
> which didn't exist then, so they didn't have to set off from Australia,
> and turned up just as check in was closing, along with several million
> species of beetle. Noah was really not impressed.
Modern Mormons believe that Noah set out from Central America, which is
where the Garden of Eden was originally located. (The original Mormons
in the 19th century believed that the Garden of Eden was located in what
is present-day Missouri.)
In any case, all Christians agree that the Ark landed in the Middle East.
Let's bring this story up to modern times:
The Crusades.
The Renaissance.
The American and French revolutions.
World War I.
World War II.
Cold War.
The financial bankruptcy of America.
**And the Chinese are still carrying on regardless.**
--
Steven L.
Email: sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
marks...@yahoo.com
> Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
well, the Chinese may not have noticed the flood , but they noticed
the economic crisis in USA.
The Egyptions may not have noticed the flood either , or the great
pyramid was a giant pump that cleared tyhe flood out as fast as it
came in .
Vend
Mike L
<Standing ovation>
--
Mike.
John Stockwell
> The world was created 6000 years ago, as well as several billion years
> ago (although life only started 6000 years ago. Or possibly more). The
> world was created in 7 days which lasted 24 hours and several million
> years each.
>
> Adam and Eve were in a garden, surrounded by vegetarian lions and
> dinosaurs, but they sinned and tainted the whole of the future human race
> by eating something that god hadn't bothered to tell them they shouldn't
> eat.
...sold to them by a talking snake.....
...don't forget that they got all of those animals back to their right
continents....
>
> After the flood receded, there were lots of drowned cities. These cities,
> which are in most cases natural formations and not cities but are cities,
> are still underwater, which is proof that there was a flood that receded.
> The Grand Canyon also formed at this time, and the debris that such a
> cataclysm created was carted off by god (probably to make a temporary
> bridge for the kangaroos heading back to Australia)
>
> Micro evolution does and doesn't exist, so species (which are the same as
> "kinds" and aren't the same as "kinds") are immutable. They also evolve
> within their "kind". A species (or "kind") is a subgroup that can only
> breed with others of the same species (or "kind"), except for wolves and
> dogs.
>
> The astonishingly close genetic make up of animals is a result of
> intelligent design, whereby prototypes are made first by the all-powerful
> god who can do anything he wants in the blink of an eye and make it
> perfect but in this case doesn't. God then takes those prototypes (making
> sure to keep those parts of the design that will make life a misery for
> so many) and makes other animals, including humans. The proof of this is
> the bacterial flagellum, which can only be explained by ID (and
> evolution).
>
> All this is definitely true because Wernher von Braun, who is the bestest
> scientist in all the world ever and definitely not a Nazi war criminal,
> was religious and didn't seem to believe the creation story, and because
> Darwin married his cousin.
>
> Phew! Think I managed that without any contradictions
Yeah. Now they dunk you in water, and say Hallelueia!
richardal...@googlemail.com
You missed the part where vastly accelerated tectonic plate movement
led to the release of so much energy that half the solar system was
vaporised, but that this was such an insignificant event that the
writers of the Bible didn't think it worth mentioning.
RF
J. J. Lodder
Crushing under a pile of stone 'till you admit
that the devil made you write it
is the tried and true American treatment,
much superior to just burning at the stake,
Jan
Bob Casanova
talk.origins, posted by nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
Lodder):
Nah, the Dutch had the right idea:
http://www.geocities.com/leoaker/witch2.htm
--
Bob C.
"Evidence confirming an observation is
evidence that the observation is wrong."
- McNameless
J. J. Lodder
Indeed. Witch trials very relatvely few in the Netherlands
during the middle ages.
They ended completely in 1545.
In that year the Oudewater Witches Weigh (Heksenwaag) was established.
(by priviledge of Emperor Charles V)
It drew visitors from all over Europe.
It survives as a tourist attraction.
You could (and still can) obtain a certificate (after weighing)
stating that your weight is normal for your build,
and hence hat you are not a witch.
(A broomstick can't carry a normal person's weight)
Of course they never found anyone without weight,
so no one was ever found guilty.
Level-headed Dutch empiricism to the rescue.
The two cases you refer to are a brief fall-back
after the temporary collapse of central authority
following the Dutch revolution.
For comparison: the worst witch hunting in England
under King James (a witch maniac) was yet to start (after 1603)
and North America was a place still undreamt of,
(Pilgrim FAthers 1620, New Amsterdam 1625)
Jan
Mike L
J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Bob Casanova <nos...@buzz.off> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:46:33 +0200, the following appeared in
> > talk.origins, posted by nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
> > Lodder):
[...]
Goddam Anglo-Saxons cause all the trouble in the world: just ask
Ahmedinajad.
--
Mike.
Steven L.
You mean, when the CIA waterboarded a terrorist, they said "Hallelujah"???
--
Steven L.
Email: sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
J. J. Lodder
Amewho?
Anyway, what's he got to do with witchcraft?
The worst affected country seems to have been Germany.
The Danes took it from there.
And King James is supposed to have acquired his fascination
with witchcraft when he went to Denmark to meet his bride Anne.
The Brits were certainly not the cause,
on the contrary, they were among the last afflicted.
AFAIK there is no link that explains
why witch hunting surfaced again in Salem.
It takes only one nutter, under the right conditions,
Jan
Burkhard
The last witchcraft trial in the UK was in 1944, the last one in
Germany sometimes in the 1970s, though I can't at the moment find the
exact casenote
J. J. Lodder
===
Desperate to silence the apparent leak of state secrets, the authorities
charged Mrs Duncan with conspiracy, fraud, and with witchcraft under an
act dating back to 1735 - the first such charge in over a century. At
the trial, only the "black magic" allegations stuck, and she was jailed
for nine months at Holloway women's prison in north London. Churchill,
then prime minister, visited her in prison and denounced her conviction
as "tomfoolery". In 1951, he repealed the 200-year-old act, but her
conviction stood.
===
I read that there have been attemps at rehabilitation,
(or even to get the state to offer an apology)
without succes so far.
> the last one in Germany sometimes in the 1970s, though I can't at the
> moment find the exact casenote
This the one you mean perhaps?
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anneliese_Michel>
Though that was exorcism, not strictly witchcraft,
Jan
John S. Wilkins
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch-hunt#Britain
There continued to be occasional prosecutions under the Witchcraft Act
in 19th- and 20th-century Britain. The most well-remembered is that of
the medium Helen Duncan in 1944.[21] Supposedly the authorities feared
that by her alleged clairvoyant powers she could betray details of the
D-Day preparations, but the accusations in court centered round
defrauding the public. She spent nine months in prison. The last
conviction under the act was that of Jane Rebecca Yorke. The Act was
repealed in 1951 and replaced with the Fraudulent Mediums Act 1951. This
act prohibited a person from claiming to be a psychic, medium, or other
spiritualist while attempting to deceive and to make money from the
deception (other than solely for the purpose of entertainment).
J. J. Lodder
The last execution for witchcraft (in Europe)
is supposed to have been in 1782, Switzerland.
<http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26422359/>
Now declared to have been illegal.
So perhaps the Brits can offer an apology
for their last case by 2150 or so.
In other part of the world (Africa)
the horror continues.
Jan
Burkhard
Good one too, but no, mine was a "real" witch. An elderly woman in the
more rural parts of Schleswig. She was firmly convinced she had the
"evil eye" and was able to cast spells. In a pub, she boasted that
she had cast her evil eye on a neighbour's cow and a pregnant woman.
Now, German criminal law is very Kantian, and that also means that
mens rea is more important than actus reus, guilty mind more
significant than guilty act. So she was charged with attempted
criminal damage and attempted murder, because in her mind, she had
done everything to cause criminal damage. (English law, after R v
Roger Smith, went briefly into the opposite direction and effectively
abolished attempt prosecutions)
In this case, the judges though that the doctrinally correct solution
was just too embarrassing for the legal system (imagine the headlines:
woman given life for witchcraft) and they invented a doctrine of
"delusional attempt".
There was another case at the same time, with vague ToE connotation,
which also helped to get this result: a (very naive) girl was accused
of attempted abortion for drinking lots of peppermint tea. What made
this attempt even more delusional was that she was still a virgin. I
leave it to you to speculate what her mother had told her where babies
come from, and what she and her boyfriend had actually done, but if
you think "former US president, almost impeached", you are on the
right track ;o)
Dan Drake
wrote:
> On Aug 6, 4:52 am, Ilas <nob...@this.address.com> wrote:
> > The world was created 6000 years ago, as well as several billion years
> > ago (although life only started 6000 years ago. Or possibly more). The
> > world was created in 7 days which lasted 24 hours and several million
> > years each.
> >
> > Adam and Eve were in a garden, surrounded by vegetarian lions and
> > dinosaurs, but they sinned and tainted the whole of the future human race
> > by eating something that god hadn't bothered to tell them they shouldn't
> > eat.
>
> ...sold to them by a talking snake.....
>
--which, we must remember, was obliged to go about on its belly *after*
these events took place. To omit that would be disrespectful to Clarence
Darrow, and give poor crazy old Bryan an escape that he didn't deserve,
and the whole Scopes case might get reversed.
Oh, yeah, it did, sort of, didn't it?
Here is one of the great hallucinations or accurate memories of my life.
Back in the Sixties, long before Johnny Hart got converted, there was a BC
cartoon showing a snake, stretched out horizontally, walking along on two
little legs in the middle. Maybe one of the guys says to the other, "What
was THAT?" and the other says "A serpent." Anyway, the last panel says,
"It's earlier than I thought it was." I remember this quite clearly, but
I have no idea whether it was published or I dreamed it. Since the joke is
a little hard to put across, I suppose the hallucination theory gains
credence, but there are people who tell a joke better than I, so I remain
unsure.
It would in any case have been a great thing for Hart to say, and I
absolutely remember remembering this strip, if you follow my drift, long
before BC turned into dopey propaganda.
--
Dan Drake
d...@dandrake.com
http://www.dandrake.com/
porlockjr.blogspot.com