Account Options

  1. Sign in
The old Google Groups will be going away soon, but your browser is incompatible with the new version.
Google Groups Home
« Groups Home
Message from discussion Humans, chimps, wheat and frogs
The group you are posting to is a Usenet group. Messages posted to this group will make your email address visible to anyone on the Internet.
Your reply message has not been sent.
Your post was successful
 
From:
To:
Cc:
Followup To:
Add Cc | Add Followup-to | Edit Subject
Subject:
Validation:
For verification purposes please type the characters you see in the picture below or the numbers you hear by clicking the accessibility icon. Listen and type the numbers you hear
 
seanpitnos...@naturalselection.0catch.com  
View profile  
 More options Dec 9 2008, 7:08 pm
Newsgroups: talk.origins
From: seanpitnos...@naturalselection.0catch.com
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 16:08:15 -0800 (PST)
Local: Tues, Dec 9 2008 7:08 pm
Subject: Re: Humans, chimps, wheat and frogs
On 8 Dec, 11:57, John Harshman <jharshman.diespam...@pacbell.net>
wrote:

> seanpitnos...@naturalselection.0catch.com wrote:
> > On Dec 8, 9:50 am, John Harshman <jharshman.diespam...@pacbell.net>
> > wrote:

> >>> You seem to be arguing that humans vs. chimps are obviously less
> >>> "speciated" compared to, say, horses vs. donkeys or even lions vs.
> >>> tigers based only on gross numbers of mutations without any
> >>> consideration to the quality of those mutations.
> >> You seem to be confusing me with someone else.

> > Wasn't it you who wrote:

> >      "Some closely related species can't produce viable offspring.
> > Some distantly related species can. There is no particular correlation
> > between closeness of relationship and hybridization."

> Yes.

> > Upon what do you base your measure of species "relationship"
> > distance?  Is it based on an absolute count of mutational differences?
> > Or, do you take into account some qualitative functional aspect of the
> > mutational differences?

> By "closeness of relationship", I mean the literal sense of recency of
> common ancestry. One can certainly estimate this using genetic
> distances. Qualitative functional aspects are irrelevant to any
> estimate. Neutral markers are the best choice. When I say, for example,
> that humans and chimps are more closely related than horses and donkeys,
> that's a claim that the human-chimp common ancestor is more recent than
> the horse-donkey common ancestor.

> None of this has to do with being "less speciated", whatever you mean by
> that.

Ah, so your definition of "relationship" is different than your
definition of "species"?  After all, I could produce a number and
pattern of gross difference between two human genomes that would make
them appear to be less "related", according to your measure, than
humans and chimps while still having them look and function the same
way as modern humans - to include producing viable and fertile
offspring.  Yet, according to you, they would be less "related" than
humans and chimps? - because of your estimates of MRCA?  That's it?

It might help if you would clarify that this is what you mean when you
use the term "relationship" because most people think that creatures
within the same "species" group are always more closely "related", by
definition, compared to those not within the same "species" group.

By your definition of these terms, this is not necessarily the case -
or so it seems to me.

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.