In the News: Darwin Foes Add Warming to Target List
Jason Spaceman
-------------------------------------
Critics of the teaching of evolution in the nation’s classrooms are gaining
ground in some states by linking the issue to global warming, arguing that
dissenting views on both scientific subjects should be taught in public schools.
In Kentucky, a bill recently introduced in the Legislature would encourage
teachers to discuss “the advantages and disadvantages of scientific theories,”
including “evolution, the origins of life, global warming and human cloning.”
The bill, which has yet to be voted on, is patterned on even more aggressive
efforts in other states to fuse such issues. In Louisiana, a law passed in 2008
says the state board of education may assist teachers in promoting “critical
thinking” on all of those subjects.
Last year, the Texas Board of Education adopted language requiring that teachers
present all sides of the evidence on evolution and global warming.
Oklahoma introduced a bill with similar goals in 2009, although it was not
enacted.
The linkage of evolution and global warming is partly a legal strategy: courts
have found that singling out evolution for criticism in public schools is a
violation of the separation of church and state. By insisting that global
warming also be debated, deniers of evolution can argue that they are simply
championing academic freedom in general.
-----------------------------------------
Read it at
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/04/science/earth/04climate.html?pagewanted=all or
http://tinyurl.com/yjehmg4
J. Spaceman
Eric Root
wrote:
> From the article:
> -------------------------------------
> Critics of the teaching of evolution in the nation�s classrooms are gaining
> ground in some states by linking the issue to global warming, arguing that
> dissenting views on both scientific subjects should be taught in public schools.
>
> In Kentucky, a bill recently introduced in the Legislature would encourage
> including �evolution, the origins of life, global warming and human cloning.�
>
> The bill, which has yet to be voted on, is patterned on even more aggressive
> efforts in other states to fuse such issues. In Louisiana, a law passed in 2008
> thinking� on all of those subjects.
>
> Last year, the Texas Board of Education adopted language requiring that teachers
> present all sides of the evidence on evolution and global warming.
>
> Oklahoma introduced a bill with similar goals in 2009, although it was not
> enacted.
>
> The linkage of evolution and global warming is partly a legal strategy: courts
> have found that singling out evolution for criticism in public schools is a
> violation of the separation of church and state. By insisting that global
> warming also be debated, deniers of evolution can argue that they are simply
> championing academic freedom in general.
> -----------------------------------------
>
>
> J. Spaceman
How are human cloning and global warming theories?
Eric Root
Desertphile
<er...@swva.net> wrote:
> On Mar 3, 7:13�pm, Jason Spaceman <notrea...@jspaceman.homelinux.org>
> wrote:
> > From the article:
> > -------------------------------------
> > Critics of the teaching of evolution in the nation�s classrooms are gaining
> > ground in some states by linking the issue to global warming, arguing that
> > dissenting views on both scientific subjects should be taught in public schools.
> >
> > In Kentucky, a bill recently introduced in the Legislature would encourage
> > teachers to discuss �the advantages and disadvantages of scientific theories,�
> > including �evolution, the origins of life, global warming and human cloning.�
> >
> > The bill, which has yet to be voted on, is patterned on even more aggressive
> > efforts in other states to fuse such issues. In Louisiana, a law passed in 2008
> > says the state board of education may assist teachers in promoting �critical
> > thinking� on all of those subjects.
> >
> > Last year, the Texas Board of Education adopted language requiring that teachers
> > present all sides of the evidence on evolution and global warming.
> >
> > Oklahoma introduced a bill with similar goals in 2009, although it was not
> > enacted.
> >
> > The linkage of evolution and global warming is partly a legal strategy: courts
> > have found that singling out evolution for criticism in public schools is a
> > violation of the separation of church and state. By insisting that global
> > warming also be debated, deniers of evolution can argue that they are simply
> > championing academic freedom in general.
> > -----------------------------------------
> >
> > Read it athttp://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/04/science/earth/04climate.html?pagewa...orhttp://tinyurl.com/yjehmg4
> >
> > J. Spaceman
> How are human cloning and global warming theories?
Neither is evolution.
> Eric Root
--
http://desertphile.org
Desertphile's Desert Soliloquy. WARNING: view with plenty of water
"Why aren't resurrections from the dead noteworthy?" -- Jim Rutz
"Lotta soon to die punks here." -- igotskillz22
T Pagano
Global warming is yet another example of secular-atheists cooking the
books to further their political beliefs and atheistic ends. Even
after they were caught they persist in their lies. How many other
theories are held up as "best available" all the while their purveyors
knowingly and intentionally withhold or ignore disconfirming evidence?
It is what Hume---the rabid athesit----warned us of in the mid-1700s.
Corroborative evidence tells us not one twit about the truthlikeness
of our theories. It doesn't even tell us whether our theories are
probably true. And as Karl Popper pointed out (in the mid-1900s)
every false theory has some (or many) true consequences making
corroborative evidence readily found for all FALSE theories.
These facts are a deceiver's (read: atheist's) dream because the great
unwashed masses are unlilely to read Hume (or Popper) and Hume's (or
Popper's) views about theories rarely get coverage in undergraduate
programs let alone in secondary education. The secular atheists have
mislead billions since the Enlightenment knowing that corroborative
evidence was practically useless to tell us much about the
verisimiltude of our universal-like theories. They care little or
nothing for the Truth.
Play Provine's and Dawkins's interview from Ben Stein's "EXPLELLED" on
the 6 O'clock news around the world for a month and put Haekel's fraud
in every 6th grade science book around the world and the likes of
Okimoto, Forrest, Elsberry, Harsman, Wilkins and the rest of the usual
suspects would be looking for work. They don't realize how close
they are to having their world view crumbled by the forces of TRUTH.
We pray they be converted because the alternative is....
Regards,
T Pagano
The ID jugernaut hasn't even been slowed. Roll Tide!!
Kermit
wrote:> > On Mar 3, 7:13�pm, Jason Spaceman <notrea...@jspaceman.homelinux.org>
> > wrote:
> > > From the article:
> > > -------------------------------------
> > > ground in some states by linking the issue to global warming, arguing that
> > > dissenting views on both scientific subjects should be taught in public schools.
>
> > > In Kentucky, a bill recently introduced in the Legislature would encourage
> > > including �evolution, the origins of life, global warming and human cloning.�
>
> > > The bill, which has yet to be voted on, is patterned on even more aggressive
> > > efforts in other states to fuse such issues. In Louisiana, a law passed in 2008
> > > thinking� on all of those subjects.
>
> > > Last year, the Texas Board of Education adopted language requiring that teachers
> > > present all sides of the evidence on evolution and global warming.
>
> > > Oklahoma introduced a bill with similar goals in 2009, although it was not
> > > enacted.
>
> > > The linkage of evolution and global warming is partly a legal strategy: courts
> > > have found that singling out evolution for criticism in public schools is a
> > > violation of the separation of church and state. By insisting that global
> > > warming also be debated, deniers of evolution can argue that they are simply
> > > championing academic freedom in general.
> > > -----------------------------------------
>
> > > Read it athttp://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/04/science/earth/04climate.html?pagewa...
>
> > How are human cloning and global warming theories?
>
> Neither is evolution.
Doesn't matter. Both are scientificalistic and lead down the dark
Devil's path of reason, evidence, and honesty.
>
> > Eric Root
>
> --http://desertphile.org
> Desertphile's Desert Soliloquy. WARNING: view with plenty of water
> "Why aren't resurrections from the dead noteworthy?" -- Jim Rutz
> "Lotta soon to die punks here." -- igotskillz22
Kermit
Jim
<snip>
> The ID jugernaut hasn't even been slowed. � Roll Tide!!
The ID 'juggernaut' hasn't been slowed because it was never moving in
the first place. There is nothing there.
Harry K
>
> How are human cloning and global warming theories?
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Shush!!! You ain't a supposed to bring up awkward points.
Harry K
Kermit
> On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 22:13:01 -0500, Jason Spaceman
>
>
>
> <notrea...@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote:
> >From the article:
> >-------------------------------------
> >ground in some states by linking the issue to global warming, arguing that
> >dissenting views on both scientific subjects should be taught in public schools.
>
> >In Kentucky, a bill recently introduced in the Legislature would encourage
> >including �evolution, the origins of life, global warming and human cloning.�
>
> >The bill, which has yet to be voted on, is patterned on even more aggressive
> >efforts in other states to fuse such issues. In Louisiana, a law passed in 2008
> >thinking� on all of those subjects.
>
> >Last year, the Texas Board of Education adopted language requiring that teachers
> >present all sides of the evidence on evolution and global warming.
>
> >Oklahoma introduced a bill with similar goals in 2009, although it was not
> >enacted.
>
> >The linkage of evolution and global warming is partly a legal strategy: courts
> >have found that singling out evolution for criticism in public schools is a
> >violation of the separation of church and state. By insisting that global
> >warming also be debated, deniers of evolution can argue that they are simply
> >championing academic freedom in general.
> >-----------------------------------------
>
> >Read it at
> >http://tinyurl.com/yjehmg4
>
> >J. Spaceman
>
> Global warming is yet another example of secular-atheists cooking the
> after they were caught they persist in their lies. �How many other
> theories are held up as "best available" all the while their purveyors
> knowingly and intentionally withhold or ignore disconfirming evidence?
I dunno, Tony. What *do you think about the Apollo Moon Mission theory
and the Germ Theory of disease?
>
> It is what Hume---the rabid athesit----warned us of in the mid-1700s.
Reason and evidence?
> Corroborative evidence tells us not one twit about the truthlikeness
> of our theories.
Noelogisms aside, what better than evidence? Scientists know that
humans are fallible, and our wishful thinking, fears, and cultural
prejudices are poor guides to reliable truth. apparently many theists
haven't got the message.
> �It doesn't even tell us whether our theories are
> probably true.
Testable theories that fit the facts are as true as anything gets
(except pure logic based on abstract premises, like arithmetic). What
would it even mean to say "Well, theory Y doesn't fit the observable
facts as well as theory X, and its predictions don't come true, but
it's more *true." ?
> � And as Karl Popper pointed out (in the mid-1900s)
> every false theory has some (or many) true consequences making
> corroborative evidence readily found for all FALSE theories.
Ah. A profound misunderstanding. Unlike, say, you, scientists look
for *refuting evidence. Scientific evidence is corroborating because
it fits the model (which may have to be modified to accommodate it, or
in rare occasions, discarded altogether).
>
> These facts are a deceiver's (read: atheist's) dream because the great
> unwashed masses are unlilely to read Hume (or Popper) and Hume's (or
> Popper's) views about theories rarely get coverage in undergraduate
> programs let alone in secondary education.
Why do you always lie, Tony? Do you knowingly serve the Prince of
Lies, or are you an unconscious dupe?
>�The secular atheists have
> mislead billions since the Enlightenment knowing that corroborative
> evidence was practically useless to tell us much about the
> verisimiltude of our universal-like theories. They care little or
> nothing for the Truth.
So, show us the contradicting evidence. Or offer an alternative
testable theory that fits all the facts.
>
> Play Provine's and Dawkins's interview from Ben Stein's "EXPLELLED" on
> the 6 O'clock news around the world for a month and put Haekel's fraud
> in every 6th grade science book around the world
Tsk. It wasn't fraud so much as self-deception on his part. And it
was, as usual, exposed by scientists. His observations, BTW, were
largely correct, but his explanatory model was not. I know of one case
of archaeology fraud that was exposed by a journalist. I know of no
case of fraud in any related science that was ever exposed by a
Creationist. Since you guys ignore or deny the facts, and show no
understanding of science, you cannot catch any cases of fraud.
> and the likes of
> Okimoto, Forrest, Elsberry, Harsman, Wilkins and the rest of the usual
> suspects would be looking for work.
Why? Even if you could prove common descent through modification to be
wrong (and the evidence we have so far isn't going away), why would
any scientist be put out of work? This is just an example of your
bizarre paranoid fantasies being expressed. Would biochemistry
suddenly become chaotic and unpredictable; woudl the fossils
disappear, would embryological development suddenly become completely,
observably different?
You seem to live in a dream world, where events are disconnected, and
anything is possible, and all processes are random rather than causal.
>� They don't realize how close
> they are to having their world view crumbled by the forces of TRUTH.
> We pray they be converted because the alternative is....
Truth?
>
> Regards,
> T Pagano
>
> The ID jugernaut hasn't even been slowed. � Roll Tide!!
Behe hasn't been fired yet, if that's what you mean.
Kermit
Harry K
>
>
>
>
>
> <notrea...@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote:
> >From the article:
> >-------------------------------------
> >ground in some states by linking the issue to global warming, arguing that
> >dissenting views on both scientific subjects should be taught in public schools.
>
> >In Kentucky, a bill recently introduced in the Legislature would encourage
> >including �evolution, the origins of life, global warming and human cloning.�
>
> >The bill, which has yet to be voted on, is patterned on even more aggressive
> >efforts in other states to fuse such issues. In Louisiana, a law passed in 2008
> >thinking� on all of those subjects.
>
> >Last year, the Texas Board of Education adopted language requiring that teachers
> >present all sides of the evidence on evolution and global warming.
>
> >Oklahoma introduced a bill with similar goals in 2009, although it was not
> >enacted.
>
> >The linkage of evolution and global warming is partly a legal strategy: courts
> >have found that singling out evolution for criticism in public schools is a
> >violation of the separation of church and state. By insisting that global
> >warming also be debated, deniers of evolution can argue that they are simply
> >championing academic freedom in general.
> >-----------------------------------------
>
> >Read it at
> >http://tinyurl.com/yjehmg4
>
> >J. Spaceman
>
> Global warming is yet another example of secular-atheists cooking the
> after they were caught they persist in their lies. �How many other
> theories are held up as "best available" all the while their purveyors
> knowingly and intentionally withhold or ignore disconfirming evidence?
Odd then that the ice just keeps on disappearing.
Harry K
Ernest Major
Pagano <not....@address.net> writes
>
>The ID jugernaut hasn't even been slowed. Roll Tide!!
>
--
alias Ernest Major
Heather L.
>>
>> Global warming is yet another example of secular-atheists cooking the
>> books to further their political beliefs and atheistic ends. Even
>> after they were caught they persist in their lies. How many other
>> theories are held up as "best available" all the while their
>> purveyors knowingly and intentionally withhold or ignore
>> disconfirming evidence?
Just one more demonstration that these whackaloons don't have a problem with
'evolution', or 'atheism', or 'science': they have a problem with
*reality*...
HL.
Burkhard
> On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 22:13:01 -0500, Jason Spaceman
> <notr...@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote:
>
>>From the article:
>> -------------------------------------
>> dissenting views on both scientific subjects should be taught in public schools.
>>
>> In Kentucky, a bill recently introduced in the Legislature would encourage
>> including �evolution, the origins of life, global warming and human cloning.�
>>
>> The bill, which has yet to be voted on, is patterned on even more aggressive
>> efforts in other states to fuse such issues. In Louisiana, a law passed in 2008
>> thinking� on all of those subjects.
>>
>> Last year, the Texas Board of Education adopted language requiring that teachers
>> present all sides of the evidence on evolution and global warming.
>>
>> Oklahoma introduced a bill with similar goals in 2009, although it was not
>> enacted.
>>
>> The linkage of evolution and global warming is partly a legal strategy: courts
>> have found that singling out evolution for criticism in public schools is a
>> violation of the separation of church and state. By insisting that global
>> warming also be debated, deniers of evolution can argue that they are simply
>> championing academic freedom in general.
>> -----------------------------------------
>>
>> Read it at
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/04/science/earth/04climate.html?pagewanted=all or
>> http://tinyurl.com/yjehmg4
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> J. Spaceman
>
>
> Global warming is yet another example of secular-atheists cooking the
> books to further their political beliefs and atheistic ends.
How do you know the religious affiliations of climate researchers?
Even
> after they were caught they persist in their lies. How many other
> theories are held up as "best available" all the while their purveyors
> knowingly and intentionally withhold or ignore disconfirming evidence?
>
> It is what Hume---the rabid athesit----warned us of in the mid-1700s.
> Corroborative evidence tells us not one twit about the truthlikeness
> of our theories. It doesn't even tell us whether our theories are
> probably true.
Depends what you mean with true. if you have an untenable metaphysical
concept, that;s true but not very interesting. If you are simply
interested in theories that give you better and better handle of the
world, corroborative evidence is quite handy.
see e.g. Patrick Maher: Betting on theories, CUP 1993
And as Karl Popper pointed out (in the mid-1900s)
> every false theory has some (or many) true consequences making
> corroborative evidence readily found for all FALSE theories.
>
So what?
> These facts are a deceiver's (read: atheist's) dream because the great
> unwashed masses are unlilely to read Hume (or Popper) and Hume's (or
> Popper's) views about theories rarely get coverage in undergraduate
> programs let alone in secondary education.
That's probably the reason why some people have the _entirely_ wrong
idea of what their theories say...
Eric Root
Frank J
> On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 22:13:01 -0500, Jason Spaceman
>
>
>
>
>
> <notrea...@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote:
> >From the article:
> >-------------------------------------
> >ground in some states by linking the issue to global warming, arguing that
> >dissenting views on both scientific subjects should be taught in public schools.
>
> >In Kentucky, a bill recently introduced in the Legislature would encourage
> >including �evolution, the origins of life, global warming and human cloning.�
>
> >The bill, which has yet to be voted on, is patterned on even more aggressive
> >efforts in other states to fuse such issues. In Louisiana, a law passed in 2008
> >thinking� on all of those subjects.
>
> >Last year, the Texas Board of Education adopted language requiring that teachers
> >present all sides of the evidence on evolution and global warming.
>
> >Oklahoma introduced a bill with similar goals in 2009, although it was not
> >enacted.
>
> >The linkage of evolution and global warming is partly a legal strategy: courts
> >have found that singling out evolution for criticism in public schools is a
> >violation of the separation of church and state. By insisting that global
> >warming also be debated, deniers of evolution can argue that they are simply
> >championing academic freedom in general.
> >-----------------------------------------
>
> >Read it at
> >http://tinyurl.com/yjehmg4
>
> >J. Spaceman
>
> Global warming is yet another example of secular-atheists cooking the
> books to further their political beliefs and atheistic ends.
Do you mean global warming in general, or just that the claim that
human activity is a major contribution?
(snip)
Ralph Page
wrote:
ID juggernaut aside, what specific problems have you found with models
predicting higher temperatures and why do you think your high school
education makes you capable of critiquing those models?
bobsyo...@yahoo.com
> On Mar 5, 9:43 am, T Pagano <not.va...@address.net> wrote:
> <snip>
>
>> The ID jugernaut hasn't even been slowed. Roll Tide!!
Keeping in tune with reality has never been your strong point.
bpuharic
wrote:
>
>
>Global warming is yet another example of secular-atheists cooking the
>books to further their political beliefs and atheistic ends. Even
>after they were caught they persist in their lies. How many other
>theories are held up as "best available" all the while their purveyors
>knowingly and intentionally withhold or ignore disconfirming evidence?
guess pagano's unaware that a world's leading expert on climate
change...and head of the scientific assessment working group of the
IPCC...is an evangelical christian.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_T._Houghton
oh well..i guess if you're a creationist, lying is more fun than
telling the truth.
The secular atheists have
>mislead billions since the Enlightenment knowing that corroborative
>evidence was practically useless to tell us much about the
>verisimiltude of our universal-like theories. They care little or
>nothing for the Truth.
truth? did he say truth when it's a fact that a nobel prize winning
evangelical is on the IPCC??
since when are evangelicals atheists?
and of course, the pope has spoken loud and clear in favor of
activities to limit global warming
guess he's an atheist, too.
Mark Isaak
> On Mar 5, 6:43�am, T Pagano <not.va...@address.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 22:13:01 -0500, Jason Spaceman
>>
>> <notrea...@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote:
>> >From the article:
>> >------------------------------------- Critics of the teaching of
>> >evolution in the nation's classrooms are gaining ground in some
>> >states by linking the issue to global warming, arguing that dissenting
>> >views on both scientific subjects should be taught in public schools.
>>
>> >In Kentucky, a bill recently introduced in the Legislature would
>> >encourage teachers to discuss "the advantages and disadvantages of
>> >scientific theories," including "evolution, the origins of life,
>> >global warming and human cloning."
>>
>> >The bill, which has yet to be voted on, is patterned on even more
>> >aggressive efforts in other states to fuse such issues. In Louisiana,
>> >a law passed in 2008 says the state board of education may assist
>> >teachers in promoting "critical thinking" on all of those
>> >subjects.
>>
>> >Last year, the Texas Board of Education adopted language requiring
>> >that teachers present all sides of the evidence on evolution and
>> >global warming.
>>
>> >Oklahoma introduced a bill with similar goals in 2009, although it
>> >was not enacted.
>>
>> >The linkage of evolution and global warming is partly a legal
>> >strategy: courts have found that singling out evolution for criticism
>> >in public schools is a violation of the separation of church and
>> >state. By insisting that global warming also be debated, deniers of
>> >evolution can argue that they are simply championing academic freedom
>> >in general. -----------------------------------------
>>
>> >Read it at
>> >http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/04/science/earth/04climate.html?pagewa...or
>> >http://tinyurl.com/yjehmg4
>>
>> >J. Spaceman
>>
>> Global warming is yet another example of secular-atheists cooking the
>> books to further their political beliefs and atheistic ends. �Even
>> after they were caught they persist in their lies. �How many other
>> theories are held up as "best available" all the while their purveyors
>> knowingly and intentionally withhold or ignore disconfirming evidence?
>
> I dunno, Tony. What *do you think about the Apollo Moon Mission theory
> and the Germ Theory of disease?
If Richard Dawkins or Al Gore have spoken favorably of them, those
theories must be wrong, too.
--
Mark Isaak eciton (at) earthlink (dot) net
"It is certain, from experience, that the smallest grain of natural
honesty and benevolence has more effect on men's conduct, than the most
pompous views suggested by theological theories and systems." - D. Hume
Bill
>
> It is what Hume---the rabid athesit----warned us of in the mid-1700s.
> Corroborative evidence tells us not one twit about the truthlikeness
> of our theories. �It doesn't even tell us whether our theories are
> probably true. � And as Karl Popper pointed out (in the mid-1900s)
> every false theory has some (or many) true consequences making
> corroborative evidence readily found for all FALSE theories.
We'll show just what pretentious nonsense this all is in a moment. But
first, let's stop to enjoy just one of Pagano's favorite words.
Truthlikeness....Say it several times. Roll it on your tongue. How
tasty! How strong and masculine and Germanic it sounds compared to its
weak, Latinate cousin, verisimilitude. Truthlikeness. It's easy to
imagine Kant or Heidegger including it in their limpid, transparent
prose style. I say it again and again. Slowly I feel profound and
wise, able to see past all sorts of Enlightenment claptrap. I say it
again, "truthlikeness, truthlikeness," and slowly my shirt morphs into
a well worn sportscoat with patches at the elbows, a lit pipe appears
in my mouth, leather bound books appear on the walls. Ah,
truthlikeness, I feel so much smarter already, I'm going into a deep
trance of complacent self-satisfaction.....
Oh, but to the nonsense at hand.
Let's look at this bit here ..."And as Karl Popper pointed out (in the
mid-1900s) every false theory has some (or many) true consequences
making corroborative evidence readily found for all FALSE theories."
First of all theories do not have consequences; theories make
predictions. [Well, that's not quite true. One consequence of the
theory of evolution is that a subset of religious people have their
panties in a twist, but that's clearly not what Pagano means by the
consequences of a theory.] That the apple falls is not a consequence
of the theory of gravity. The theory predicts that the apple will fall
as a consequence of gravity.
So what does it mean to say that "corroborative evidence is found for
all false theories?" Pagano also likes to claim that theories are
underdetermined by the evidence and that therefore there are an
infinite number of theories that can explain any set of evidence, a
related but slightly different point.
What does it mean for there to be corroborative evidence for a false
theory? It must mean that the "false" theory makes a correct
prediction. How could this work? I won't try to come up with an
infinite number of theories to explain this evidence, but let's start
with three. The observation is that a 98 gram apple falls to earth
with an acceleration of 9.8 m/s/s. Consider three theories (1) a mass
falls under the influence of gravity at an acceleration equal to its
mass in grams divided by 10 (2) Newtonian gravitation (3) General
relativity.
Our Paganoesque scientist likes the first theory. He finds two dozen
apples, each one weighing 98 grams. He drops them and finds that they
all fall at 9.8 m/s/s. He's thrilled. Corroborative evidence! This
theory is TRUTHLIKE. But, he's not a fool. He knows he should test the
theory under other conditions. He drops a few 98 gram pears and
peaches. Once again they fall at the predicted acceleration. He's
identified the deep principle of Gravitational Fruit Invariance. He
tries 98 g cantaloupe, plums, oranges. He goes for 98 gram rocks - my
God, it's true beyond the domain of fruits! He's hit the big time.
OK. This seems to be what you mean by a false theory with many bits of
corroborative evidence. But the theory is indeed making true
predictions. It's just that a few better thought out experiments would
show that its ability to make correct predictions is restricted to
objects with a mass of 98 grams. It's not really a false theory, just
one that is only true in a very limited domain. Newton's gravity is
similar, true in a restricted domain, except that the restricted
domain is wide enough that it's actually a useful theory for many,
many applications. Einstein's gravity makes correct predictions in a
even wider domain. It's a bit hard to work with, though, so if you
want to predict the acceleration of a 98 gram apple, you can stick
with theory number one.
There are several points here. First, what distinguishes a smart
scientist from Pagano is the ability to find situations in which
different theories make different predictions - gee, lets drop a 2 kg
watermelon instead of a 98 gram apple - see, it doesn't fall at 200m/s/
s. Wow. Second, a theory which makes correct predictions in all the
situations you can think of is as "truthlike" as a theory gets. Third,
pace Popper, good scientists do not attempt to confirm or reject
single theories; they develop alternative theories and then look at
situations where the alternative theories make different predictions.
Fourth, rambling on about Popper and Hume and the scientific method in
the absence of specific examples just makes you look silly.
If you feel silly and foolish all you need do is repeat to yourself
over and over "Truthlikeness, truthlikeness, thruthlikeness," and
you'll feel much better.
>
Sembunyikan teks kutipan -
>
> - Perlihatkan teks kutipan -
Frank J
Yet it has beem moving, possibly even accelerating, in a *negative*
direction. In the early days of ID it was not uncommon to hear a
proponent speculate on what the designer might have done, and when.
Just like the "scientific" creationists, except that the few scenarios
(e.g. Behe's ~4-billion year old "designed ancestral cell") they
proposed were radically different from those of YECs *and* OECs.
Nowadays, all they offer is long-refuted "weaknesses" of "Darwinism."
That alone would be strong evidence that they lack any promise at an
alternate theory that they could support on its own merits. But even
their confidence in "weaknesses" of "Darwinism" must be waning,
because they increasingly resort to "plan B" which is to pretend that.
right or wrong. "Darwinism" leads to all sorts of bad behavior - the
Holocaust, Columbine, etc.
Mike Dworetsky
Hmm, legislators in Texas, Louisiana, and Oklahoma want to add global
warming denial to their evolution denial.
These are all Big Oil states. Follow the money. "Buy our oil, burn it as
fast as you can, give us your money to buy more, there is no global warming,
and okay if there is, then it's natural, nothing to do with us. The
scientists are conspiring against us. Oh, and the Earth is 6,000 years
old."
Is anyone surprised?
--
Mike Dworetsky
(Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply)
Moist Lipwig
news:b8a1e0fa-b8ca-41ab...@m35g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
hersheyh
> On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 09:43:24 -0500, T Pagano <not.va...@address.net>
You really think that Tony has a high school education? Didn't stick,
did it.
RAM
> On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 22:13:01 -0500, Jason Spaceman
>
>
>
>
>
> <notrea...@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote:
> >From the article:
> >-------------------------------------
> >ground in some states by linking the issue to global warming, arguing that
> >dissenting views on both scientific subjects should be taught in public schools.
>
> >In Kentucky, a bill recently introduced in the Legislature would encourage
> >including �evolution, the origins of life, global warming and human cloning.�
>
> >The bill, which has yet to be voted on, is patterned on even more aggressive
> >efforts in other states to fuse such issues. In Louisiana, a law passed in 2008
> >thinking� on all of those subjects.
>
> >Last year, the Texas Board of Education adopted language requiring that teachers
> >present all sides of the evidence on evolution and global warming.
>
> >Oklahoma introduced a bill with similar goals in 2009, although it was not
> >enacted.
>
> >The linkage of evolution and global warming is partly a legal strategy: courts
> >have found that singling out evolution for criticism in public schools is a
> >violation of the separation of church and state. By insisting that global
> >warming also be debated, deniers of evolution can argue that they are simply
> >championing academic freedom in general.
> >-----------------------------------------
>
> >Read it at
> >http://tinyurl.com/yjehmg4
>
> >J. Spaceman
>
> Global warming is yet another example of secular-atheists cooking the
> after they were caught they persist in their lies. �How many other
> theories are held up as "best available" all the while their purveyors
> knowingly and intentionally withhold or ignore disconfirming evidence?
>
> It is what Hume---the rabid athesit----warned us of in the mid-1700s.
> Corroborative evidence tells us not one twit about the truthlikeness
> probably true. � And as Karl Popper pointed out (in the mid-1900s)
> every false theory has some (or many) true consequences making
> corroborative evidence readily found for all FALSE theories.
>
> These facts are a deceiver's (read: atheist's) dream because the great
> unwashed masses are unlilely to read Hume (or Popper) and Hume's (or
> Popper's) views about theories rarely get coverage in undergraduate
> mislead billions since the Enlightenment knowing that corroborative
> evidence was practically useless to tell us much about the
> verisimiltude of our universal-like theories. They care little or
> nothing for the Truth.
>
> Play Provine's and Dawkins's interview from Ben Stein's "EXPLELLED" on
> the 6 O'clock news around the world for a month and put Haekel's fraud
> in every 6th grade science book around the world and the likes of
> Okimoto, Forrest, Elsberry, Harsman, Wilkins and the rest of the usual
> they are to having their world view crumbled by the forces of TRUTH.
> We pray they be converted because the alternative is....
>
> Regards,
> T Pagano
>
The ID juggernaut is a fundamentalist's religious wet dream. It is
not fecund. Theologically it will always be sterile like a mule and
equally as valuable. It will never make it as a science. But it will
always be there for the religious pseudoscientists who want the status
and appearance of "atheistic" science validation.
richardal...@googlemail.com
> On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 22:13:01 -0500, Jason Spaceman
>
>
>
>
>
> <notrea...@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote:
> >From the article:
> >-------------------------------------
> >ground in some states by linking the issue to global warming, arguing that
> >dissenting views on both scientific subjects should be taught in public schools.
>
> >In Kentucky, a bill recently introduced in the Legislature would encourage
> >including �evolution, the origins of life, global warming and human cloning.�
>
> >The bill, which has yet to be voted on, is patterned on even more aggressive
> >efforts in other states to fuse such issues. In Louisiana, a law passed in 2008
> >thinking� on all of those subjects.
>
> >Last year, the Texas Board of Education adopted language requiring that teachers
> >present all sides of the evidence on evolution and global warming.
>
> >Oklahoma introduced a bill with similar goals in 2009, although it was not
> >enacted.
>
> >The linkage of evolution and global warming is partly a legal strategy: courts
> >have found that singling out evolution for criticism in public schools is a
> >violation of the separation of church and state. By insisting that global
> >warming also be debated, deniers of evolution can argue that they are simply
> >championing academic freedom in general.
> >-----------------------------------------
>
> >Read it at
> >http://tinyurl.com/yjehmg4
>
> >J. Spaceman
>
> Global warming is yet another example of secular-atheists
FALSEHOOD #1
Tony, you are doing it again: "scientist" and "atheist" are not
synonyms, no matter how many times you repeat the falsehood.
> cooking the
> books to further their political beliefs and atheistic ends. �Even
> after they were caught they persist in their lies.
FALSEHOOD #2
And, my word Tony: the irony!
You lie persistently - as in your conflation of science with atheism.
Mind you, you think that the head of your own church is a liar, which
presumably makes you think that lying is acceptable.
>�How many other
> theories are held up as "best available" all the while their purveyors
> knowingly and intentionally withhold or ignore disconfirming evidence?
There's ID for a start.
>
> It is what Hume---the rabid athesit----
FALSEHOOD #3
Hume never described himself as an atheist, which would be surprising
if he were "rabid".
> warned us of in the mid-1700s.
> Corroborative evidence tells us not one twit about the truthlikeness
> of our theories.
What a load of intellectually nihilistic garbage!
What tells us of the "truthlikeness" of scientific theories is that
they make predictions which can be tested by the acquisition of new
evidence. The fact that science works, and produces the devices which
you use to communicate your "intellectual" nihilism shows that this is
an excellent measure.
>�It doesn't even tell us whether our theories are
> probably true. �
If that is the case, just what *does* it tell us?
> And as Karl Popper pointed out (in the mid-1900s)
> every false theory has some (or many) true consequences making
> corroborative evidence readily found for all FALSE theories.
So we can add Popper to the long, long list of authors who you quote
without reading.
>
> These facts are a deceiver's (read: atheist's)
FALSEHOOD #4
The "deceiver" here is you, Tony. Mind you, as your deceptions are so
transparent I doubt that you'll actually deceive anyone.
> dream because the great
> unwashed masses are unlilely to read Hume (or Popper) and Hume's (or
> Popper's) views about theories rarely get coverage in undergraduate
> programs let alone in secondary education.
Oh, the irony!
>�The secular atheists have
> mislead billions since the Enlightenment knowing that corroborative
> evidence was practically useless to tell us much about the
> verisimiltude of our universal-like theories.
FALSEHOOD #5
If corroborative evidence is so useless, why does your computer work?
> They care little or
> nothing for the Truth.
FALSEHOOD #6
Actually Tony, scientists care a lot more for the truth than you do.
Unlike you, they do not rely on extended series of blatant and
persistent falsehoods to promote their argument.
>
> Play Provine's and Dawkins's interview from Ben Stein's "EXPLELLED" on
> the 6 O'clock news around the world for a month and put Haekel's fraud
> in every 6th grade science book around the world and the likes of
> Okimoto, Forrest, Elsberry, Harsman, Wilkins and the rest of the usual
> suspects would be looking for work. �
Why would I be looking for work, Tony? "Expelled" is a mess of utterly
dishonest propaganda.
> They don't realize how close
> they are to having their world view crumbled by the forces of TRUTH.
Tony, you are so deeply dishonest that you couldn't recognise truth if
it poked you in the eye with a sharp stick.
To remind you of a question from which you run like the dishonest
little creationist you are:
Is the Pope and liar, or is he an atheist?
The Pope has stated that he accepts the findings of science in respect
of evolution. That makes him, according to you, an atheist.
You have asserted that he only made those statements for political
reasons, which would make him a liar.
So which is it, Tony?
> We pray they be converted because the alternative is....
>
> Regards,
> T Pagano
>
> The ID jugernaut hasn't even been slowed. � Roll Tide!!
The ID "juggernaut" hasn't even started. Even it's proponents have now
quietly dropped their claims for the scientific status of their
untestable "theory" in favour of the weaselling "teach the
controversy" propaganda attack on science.
RF
Karel
> "Bill" <brogers31...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Seconded.
Regards,
Karel
jillery
<richardalanforr...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 5, 2:43�pm, T Pagano <not.va...@address.net> wrote:
<snip>
> > We pray they be converted because the alternative is....
>
> The ID "juggernaut" hasn't even started. Even it's proponents have now
> quietly dropped their claims for the scientific status of their
> untestable "theory" in favour of the weaselling "teach the
> controversy" propaganda attack on science.
>
> RF
Which is so typical of Philip Johnson's lawyer-like sophistry. I can
imagine his thinking. He perceives evolution as a threat. OK then,
argue Intelligent Design. Who would argue against intelligence,
right? What's that? Scientists reject Intelligent Design as
unintelligent and unscientific? Imagine that. OK then, argue Teach
the Controversy. Who would argue against teaching?
Bob T.
> On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 22:13:01 -0500, Jason Spaceman
>
>
>
>
>
> <notrea...@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote:
> >From the article:
> >-------------------------------------
> >ground in some states by linking the issue to global warming, arguing that
> >dissenting views on both scientific subjects should be taught in public schools.
>
> >In Kentucky, a bill recently introduced in the Legislature would encourage
> >including �evolution, the origins of life, global warming and human cloning.�
>
> >The bill, which has yet to be voted on, is patterned on even more aggressive
> >efforts in other states to fuse such issues. In Louisiana, a law passed in 2008
> >thinking� on all of those subjects.
>
> >Last year, the Texas Board of Education adopted language requiring that teachers
> >present all sides of the evidence on evolution and global warming.
>
> >Oklahoma introduced a bill with similar goals in 2009, although it was not
> >enacted.
>
> >The linkage of evolution and global warming is partly a legal strategy: courts
> >have found that singling out evolution for criticism in public schools is a
> >violation of the separation of church and state. By insisting that global
> >warming also be debated, deniers of evolution can argue that they are simply
> >championing academic freedom in general.
> >-----------------------------------------
>
> >Read it at
> >http://tinyurl.com/yjehmg4
>
> >J. Spaceman
>
> Global warming is yet another example of secular-atheists cooking the
> after they were caught they persist in their lies. �How many other
> theories are held up as "best available" all the while their purveyors
> knowingly and intentionally withhold or ignore disconfirming evidence?
>
> It is what Hume---the rabid athesit----warned us of in the mid-1700s.
> Corroborative evidence tells us not one twit about the truthlikeness
> probably true. � And as Karl Popper pointed out (in the mid-1900s)
> every false theory has some (or many) true consequences making
> corroborative evidence readily found for all FALSE theories.
>
> These facts are a deceiver's (read: atheist's) dream because the great
> unwashed masses are unlilely to read Hume (or Popper) and Hume's (or
> Popper's) views about theories rarely get coverage in undergraduate
> mislead billions since the Enlightenment knowing that corroborative
> evidence was practically useless to tell us much about the
> verisimiltude of our universal-like theories. They care little or
> nothing for the Truth.
>
> Play Provine's and Dawkins's interview from Ben Stein's "EXPLELLED" on
> the 6 O'clock news around the world for a month and put Haekel's fraud
> in every 6th grade science book around the world and the likes of
> Okimoto, Forrest, Elsberry, Harsman, Wilkins and the rest of the usual
> they are to having their world view crumbled by the forces of TRUTH.
Surely you mean "TRUTHLIKENESS", eh Tony?
- Bob T
> We pray they be converted because the alternative is....
>
> Regards,
> T Pagano
>
> The ID jugernaut hasn't even been slowed. � Roll Tide!!- Hide quoted text -
Bob Casanova
talk.origins, posted by "Moist Lipwig" <n...@all.org>:
Second.
--
Bob C.
"Evidence confirming an observation is
evidence that the observation is wrong."
- McNameless