How Noah's Decendents Filled the Earth
All-seeing-I
early descendants of Gomer, along with Togarmah (a son of Gomer), in
the north quarters (Ezekiel 38:6). In modern Turkey is an area which
in New Testament times was called Galatia. The Jewish historian
Flavius Josephus records that the people who were called Galatians or
Gauls in his day (c. AD 93) were previously called Gomerites.1
They migrated westward to what are now called France and Spain. For
many centuries France was called Gaul, after the descendants of Gomer.
North-west Spain is called Galicia to this day.
Some of the Gomerites migrated further to what is now called Wales.
The Welsh historian, Davis, records a traditional Welsh belief that
the descendants of Gomer �landed on the Isle of Britain from France,
about three hundred years after the flood�.2 He also records that the
Welsh language is called Gomeraeg (after their ancestor Gomer).
Other members of their clan settled along the way, including in
Armenia. The sons of Gomer were �Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and
Togarmah� (Genesis 10:3). Encyclopaedia Britannica says that the
Armenians traditionally claim to be descended from Togarmah and
Ashkenaz.3 Ancient Armenia reached into Turkey. The name Turkey
probably comes from Togarmah. Others of them migrated to Germany.
Ashkenaz is the Hebrew word for Germany.
The descendants of Ham live mainly in south-west Asia and Africa. The
Bible often refers to Africa as the land of Ham (Psalms 105:23,27;
106:22). The name of Noah�s grandson Cush is the Hebrew word for old
Ethiopia (from Aswan south to Khartoum). Without exception, the word
Ethiopia in the English Bible is always a translation of the Hebrew
word Cush. Josephus rendered the name as Chus, and says that the
Ethiopians �are even at this day, both by themselves and by all men in
Asia, called Chusites�.9
Noah�s next grandson mentioned was Mizraim. Mizraim is the Hebrew word
for Egypt. The name Egypt appears hundreds of times in the Old
Testament and (with one exception) is always a translation of the word
Mizraim. E.g. at the burial of Jacob, the Canaanites observed the
mourning of the Egyptians and so called the place Abel Mizraim
(Genesis 50:11).
Phut, the name of Noah�s next grandson is the Hebrew name for Libya.
It is so translated three times in the Old Testament. The ancient
river Phut was in Libya. By Daniel�s day, the name had been changed to
Libya (Daniel 11:43). Josephus says, �Phut also was the founder of
Libia [sic], and called the inhabitants Phutites, from himself�.9
Canaan, the name of Noah�s next grandson, is the Hebrew name for the
general region later called by the Romans Palestine, i.e. modern
Israel and Jordan. Here we should look briefly at a few of the
descendants of Ham (Genesis 10:14�18). There is Philistim, obviously
the ancestor of the Philistines (clearly giving rise to the name
Palestine), and Sidon, the founder of the ancient city that bears his
name, and Heth, the patriarch of the ancient Hittite empire. Also,
this descendant is listed in Genesis 10:15�18 as being the ancestor of
the Jebusites (Jebus was the ancient name for Jerusalem�Judges 19:10),
the Amorites, the Girgasites, the Hivites, the Arkites, the Sinites,
the Arvadites, the Zemarites, and the Hamathites, ancient peoples who
lived in the land of Canaan.
The most prominent descendant of Ham was Nimrod, the founder of Babel
(Babylon), as well as of Erech, Accad and Calneh in Shinar
(Babylonia).
Ye Old One
<ap...@email.com> enriched this group when s/he wrote:
>The first of Noah�s grandsons
Noah is a fictional character.
>mentioned is Gomer. Ezekiel locates the
>early descendants of Gomer, along with Togarmah (a son of Gomer), in
>the north quarters (Ezekiel 38:6). In modern Turkey is an area which
>in New Testament times was called Galatia. The Jewish historian
>Flavius Josephus records that the people who were called Galatians or
>Gauls in his day (c. AD 93) were previously called Gomerites.1
Are you REALLY that stupid?
>
>They migrated westward to what are now called France and Spain. For
>many centuries France was called Gaul, after the descendants of Gomer.
>North-west Spain is called Galicia to this day.
>
>Some of the Gomerites migrated further to what is now called Wales.
>The Welsh historian, Davis, records a traditional Welsh belief that
>the descendants of Gomer �landed on the Isle of Britain from France,
>about three hundred years after the flood�.2 He also records that the
>Welsh language is called Gomeraeg (after their ancestor Gomer).
Welsh is called Cymraeg in welsh.
[snip more stupidity that only a real fool like Mudbrain would even
consider.]
>http://creation.com/the-sixteen-grandsons-of-noah
No wonder.
--
Bob.
People may not always remember exactly what you said, but they will
always remember just how bright you made them feel.
Burkhard
> The first of Noah�s grandsons mentioned is Gomer. Ezekiel locates the
> early descendants of Gomer, along with Togarmah (a son of Gomer), in
> the north quarters (Ezekiel 38:6). In modern Turkey is an area which
> in New Testament times was called Galatia. The Jewish historian
> Flavius Josephus records that the people who were called Galatians or
> Gauls in his day (c. AD 93) were previously called Gomerites.1
>
> They migrated westward to what are now called France and Spain. For
> many centuries France was called Gaul, after the descendants of Gomer.
> North-west Spain is called Galicia to this day.
>
> Some of the Gomerites migrated further to what is now called Wales.
> The Welsh historian, Davis, records a traditional Welsh belief that
> the descendants of Gomer �landed on the Isle of Britain from France,
> about three hundred years after the flood�.2 He also records that the
> Welsh language is called Gomeraeg (after their ancestor Gomer).
The name of the Welsh language is derived from Combrogos ("fellow
countryman")See the University of Wales Dictionary, vol. II, p. 1485,
"Gomeriad". The editors note the false etymology that was proposed
briefly in the 18th century (nothing ancient about it), as a local
equivalent of the (inherently racist) British Israelite movement. See
also on the background of this made up etymology Piggot, The Druids
Thames and Hudson:London pp. 132 and 172.
Mike Dworetsky
> All-seeing-I wrote:
>> The first of Noah�s grandsons mentioned is Gomer. Ezekiel locates the
>> early descendants of Gomer, along with Togarmah (a son of Gomer), in
>> the north quarters (Ezekiel 38:6). In modern Turkey is an area which
>> in New Testament times was called Galatia. The Jewish historian
>> Flavius Josephus records that the people who were called Galatians or
>> Gauls in his day (c. AD 93) were previously called Gomerites.1
>>
>> They migrated westward to what are now called France and Spain. For
>> many centuries France was called Gaul, after the descendants of
>> Gomer. North-west Spain is called Galicia to this day.
>>
>> Some of the Gomerites migrated further to what is now called Wales.
>> The Welsh historian, Davis, records a traditional Welsh belief that
>> about three hundred years after the flood�.2 He also records that the
>> Welsh language is called Gomeraeg (after their ancestor Gomer).
>
> The name of the Welsh language is derived from Combrogos ("fellow
> countryman")See the University of Wales Dictionary, vol. II, p. 1485,
> "Gomeriad". The editors note the false etymology that was proposed
> briefly in the 18th century (nothing ancient about it), as a local
> equivalent of the (inherently racist) British Israelite movement. See
> also on the background of this made up etymology Piggot, The Druids
> Thames and Hudson:London pp. 132 and 172.
I recall that ASI in one of his alternate identities some time ago fell for
another British Israelite claim in one of his rants about "ancient
documents". I'm too lazy to look this up but it was similarly debunked.
He is 100% gullible when it comes to things like this.
>> Other members of their clan settled along the way, including in
>> Armenia. The sons of Gomer were �Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and
>> Togarmah� (Genesis 10:3). Encyclopaedia Britannica says that the
>> Armenians traditionally claim to be descended from Togarmah and
>> Ashkenaz.3 Ancient Armenia reached into Turkey. The name Turkey
>> probably comes from Togarmah. Others of them migrated to Germany.
>> Ashkenaz is the Hebrew word for Germany.
>>
>> The descendants of Ham live mainly in south-west Asia and Africa. The
>> Bible often refers to Africa as the land of Ham (Psalms 105:23,27;
>> 106:22). The name of Noah�s grandson Cush is the Hebrew word for old
>> Ethiopia (from Aswan south to Khartoum). Without exception, the word
>> Ethiopia in the English Bible is always a translation of the Hebrew
>> word Cush. Josephus rendered the name as Chus, and says that the
>> Ethiopians �are even at this day, both by themselves and by all men
>> in Asia, called Chusites�.9
>>
>> Noah�s next grandson mentioned was Mizraim. Mizraim is the Hebrew
>> word for Egypt. The name Egypt appears hundreds of times in the Old
>> Testament and (with one exception) is always a translation of the
>> word Mizraim. E.g. at the burial of Jacob, the Canaanites observed
>> the mourning of the Egyptians and so called the place Abel Mizraim
>> (Genesis 50:11).
>>
>> Phut, the name of Noah�s next grandson is the Hebrew name for Libya.
>> It is so translated three times in the Old Testament. The ancient
>> river Phut was in Libya. By Daniel�s day, the name had been changed
>> to Libya (Daniel 11:43). Josephus says, �Phut also was the founder of
>> Libia [sic], and called the inhabitants Phutites, from himself�.9
>>
>> Canaan, the name of Noah�s next grandson, is the Hebrew name for the
>> general region later called by the Romans Palestine, i.e. modern
>> Israel and Jordan. Here we should look briefly at a few of the
>> descendants of Ham (Genesis 10:14�18). There is Philistim, obviously
>> the ancestor of the Philistines (clearly giving rise to the name
>> Palestine), and Sidon, the founder of the ancient city that bears his
>> name, and Heth, the patriarch of the ancient Hittite empire. Also,
>> this descendant is listed in Genesis 10:15�18 as being the ancestor
>> of the Jebusites (Jebus was the ancient name for Jerusalem�Judges
>> 19:10), the Amorites, the Girgasites, the Hivites, the Arkites, the
>> Sinites, the Arvadites, the Zemarites, and the Hamathites, ancient
>> peoples who lived in the land of Canaan.
>>
>> The most prominent descendant of Ham was Nimrod, the founder of Babel
>> (Babylon), as well as of Erech, Accad and Calneh in Shinar
>> (Babylonia).
>>
>> [more]
>> http://creation.com/the-sixteen-grandsons-of-noah
--
Mike Dworetsky
(Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply)
Burkhard
> Burkhard wrote:
>> All-seeing-I wrote:
>>> early descendants of Gomer, along with Togarmah (a son of Gomer), in
>>> the north quarters (Ezekiel 38:6). In modern Turkey is an area which
>>> in New Testament times was called Galatia. The Jewish historian
>>> Flavius Josephus records that the people who were called Galatians or
>>> Gauls in his day (c. AD 93) were previously called Gomerites.1
>>>
>>> They migrated westward to what are now called France and Spain. For
>>> many centuries France was called Gaul, after the descendants of
>>> Gomer. North-west Spain is called Galicia to this day.
>>>
>>> Some of the Gomerites migrated further to what is now called Wales.
>>> The Welsh historian, Davis, records a traditional Welsh belief that
>>> about three hundred years after the flood�.2 He also records that the
>>> Welsh language is called Gomeraeg (after their ancestor Gomer).
>> The name of the Welsh language is derived from Combrogos ("fellow
>> countryman")See the University of Wales Dictionary, vol. II, p. 1485,
>> "Gomeriad". The editors note the false etymology that was proposed
>> briefly in the 18th century (nothing ancient about it), as a local
>> equivalent of the (inherently racist) British Israelite movement. See
>> also on the background of this made up etymology Piggot, The Druids
>> Thames and Hudson:London pp. 132 and 172.
>
> I recall that ASI in one of his alternate identities some time ago fell for
> another British Israelite claim in one of his rants about "ancient
> documents". I'm too lazy to look this up but it was similarly debunked.
>
> He is 100% gullible when it comes to things like this.
>
That was Ray and him in unison, claiming London and Denmark are derived
from Dan. Funny thing is that while ASI (unlike, to his credit, Ray)
frequently posts stuff from racist websites, he has also been in the
past claiming that the British are evil incarnate - he seems not to be
getting who the British Israelites were, and what their agenda was in
claiming these historical links.
<snip>
>
Eric Root
> The first of Noah s grandsons mentioned is Gomer. Ezekiel locates the
> early descendants of Gomer, along with Togarmah (a son of Gomer), in
> the north quarters (Ezekiel 38:6). In modern Turkey is an area which
> in New Testament times was called Galatia. The Jewish historian
> Flavius Josephus records that the people who were called Galatians or
> Gauls in his day (c. AD 93) were previously called Gomerites.1
>
> They migrated westward to what are now called France and Spain. For
> many centuries France was called Gaul, after the descendants of Gomer.
> North-west Spain is called Galicia to this day.
>
> Some of the Gomerites migrated further to what is now called Wales.
> The Welsh historian, Davis, records a traditional Welsh belief that
> about three hundred years after the flood .2 He also records that the
> Welsh language is called Gomeraeg (after their ancestor Gomer).
>
> Other members of their clan settled along the way, including in
> Togarmah (Genesis 10:3). Encyclopaedia Britannica says that the
> Armenians traditionally claim to be descended from Togarmah and
> Ashkenaz.3 Ancient Armenia reached into Turkey. The name Turkey
> probably comes from Togarmah. Others of them migrated to Germany.
> Ashkenaz is the Hebrew word for Germany.
>
> The descendants of Ham live mainly in south-west Asia and Africa. The
> Bible often refers to Africa as the land of Ham (Psalms 105:23,27;
> Ethiopia (from Aswan south to Khartoum). Without exception, the word
> Ethiopia in the English Bible is always a translation of the Hebrew
> word Cush. Josephus rendered the name as Chus, and says that the
> Asia, called Chusites .9
>
> Noah s next grandson mentioned was Mizraim. Mizraim is the Hebrew word
> for Egypt. The name Egypt appears hundreds of times in the Old
> Testament and (with one exception) is always a translation of the word
> Mizraim. E.g. at the burial of Jacob, the Canaanites observed the
> mourning of the Egyptians and so called the place Abel Mizraim
> (Genesis 50:11).
>
> It is so translated three times in the Old Testament. The ancient
> Libya (Daniel 11:43). Josephus says, Phut also was the founder of
> Libia [sic], and called the inhabitants Phutites, from himself .9
>
> Canaan, the name of Noah s next grandson, is the Hebrew name for the
> general region later called by the Romans Palestine, i.e. modern
> Israel and Jordan. Here we should look briefly at a few of the
> the ancestor of the Philistines (clearly giving rise to the name
> Palestine), and Sidon, the founder of the ancient city that bears his
> name, and Heth, the patriarch of the ancient Hittite empire. Also,
> the Jebusites (Jebus was the ancient name for Jerusalem Judges 19:10),
> the Amorites, the Girgasites, the Hivites, the Arkites, the Sinites,
> the Arvadites, the Zemarites, and the Hamathites, ancient peoples who
> lived in the land of Canaan.
>
> The most prominent descendant of Ham was Nimrod, the founder of Babel
> (Babylon), as well as of Erech, Accad and Calneh in Shinar
> (Babylonia).
>
> [more]http://creation.com/the-sixteen-grandsons-of-noah
Interesting, but off-topic. How about posting it to a religious
newsgroup?
Eric Root
All-Seeing-I
wrote:
> Burkhard wrote:
> > All-seeing-I wrote:
> >> The first of Noah�s grandsons mentioned is Gomer. Ezekiel locates the
> >> early descendants of Gomer, along with Togarmah (a son of Gomer), in
> >> the north quarters (Ezekiel 38:6). In modern Turkey is an area which
> >> in New Testament times was called Galatia. The Jewish historian
> >> Flavius Josephus records that the people who were called Galatians or
> >> Gauls in his day (c. AD 93) were previously called Gomerites.1
>
> >> They migrated westward to what are now called France and Spain. For
> >> many centuries France was called Gaul, after the descendants of
> >> Gomer. North-west Spain is called Galicia to this day.
>
> >> Some of the Gomerites migrated further to what is now called Wales.
> >> The Welsh historian, Davis, records a traditional Welsh belief that
> >> about three hundred years after the flood�.2 He also records that the
> >> Welsh language is called Gomeraeg (after their ancestor Gomer).
>
> > The name of the Welsh language is derived from Combrogos ("fellow
> > countryman")See the University of Wales Dictionary, vol. II, p. 1485,
> > "Gomeriad". The editors note the false etymology that was proposed
> > briefly in the 18th century (nothing ancient about it), as a local
> > equivalent of the (inherently racist) British Israelite movement. See
> > Thames and Hudson:London pp. 132 and �172.
>
> I recall that ASI in one of his alternate identities some time ago fell for
> another British Israelite claim in one of his rants about "ancient
>
> He is 100% gullible when it comes to things like this.
>
>
>
>
>
> >> Other members of their clan settled along the way, including in
> >> Armenians traditionally claim to be descended from Togarmah and
> >> Ashkenaz.3 Ancient Armenia reached into Turkey. The name Turkey
> >> probably comes from Togarmah. Others of them migrated to Germany.
> >> Ashkenaz is the Hebrew word for Germany.
>
> >> The descendants of Ham live mainly in south-west Asia and Africa. The
> >> Bible often refers to Africa as the land of Ham (Psalms 105:23,27;
> >> Ethiopia (from Aswan south to Khartoum). Without exception, the word
> >> Ethiopia in the English Bible is always a translation of the Hebrew
> >> word Cush. Josephus rendered the name as Chus, and says that the
> >> in Asia, called Chusites�.9
>
> >> Noah�s next grandson mentioned was Mizraim. Mizraim is the Hebrew
> >> word for Egypt. The name Egypt appears hundreds of times in the Old
> >> Testament and (with one exception) is always a translation of the
> >> word Mizraim. E.g. at the burial of Jacob, the Canaanites observed
> >> the mourning of the Egyptians and so called the place Abel Mizraim
> >> (Genesis 50:11).
>
> >> It is so translated three times in the Old Testament. The ancient
> >> to Libya (Daniel 11:43). Josephus says, �Phut also was the founder of
> >> Libia [sic], and called the inhabitants Phutites, from himself�.9
>
> >> Canaan, the name of Noah�s next grandson, is the Hebrew name for the
> >> general region later called by the Romans Palestine, i.e. modern
> >> Israel and Jordan. Here we should look briefly at a few of the
> >> the ancestor of the Philistines (clearly giving rise to the name
> >> Palestine), and Sidon, the founder of the ancient city that bears his
> >> name, and Heth, the patriarch of the ancient Hittite empire. Also,
> >> of the Jebusites (Jebus was the ancient name for Jerusalem�Judges
> >> 19:10), the Amorites, the Girgasites, the Hivites, the Arkites, the
> >> Sinites, the Arvadites, the Zemarites, and the Hamathites, ancient
> >> peoples who lived in the land of Canaan.
>
> >> The most prominent descendant of Ham was Nimrod, the founder of Babel
> >> (Babylon), as well as of Erech, Accad and Calneh in Shinar
> >> (Babylonia).
>
> >> [more]
> >>http://creation.com/the-sixteen-grandsons-of-noah
>
> --
> Mike Dworetsky
>
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Once again you zero in on what //may// be a single discrepancy to
discredit the entire body of work.(but you never seem to be able to
address the rest of the subject matter no matter what the subject is).
Are you being deliberitly dishonest? Too dumb to understand maybe?
I'm glad you are not my doctor. You would want to cut of my hand if I
has a scratch on my finger!
All-Seeing-I
>
> - Show quoted text -
This has to do with ORIGINS, of language. Please go read the TO web
site and you will find that this is directly on topic for this NG.
Caranx latus
> site and you will find that this is directly on topic for this NG.
From <http://www.ediacara.org/~to/charter.html>:
"The newsgroup talk.origins is meant as a venue for discussion of the
scientific, religious, and political issues pertaining to various
theories of the origins and development of life and the universe."
The way I read that, it seems that the origins of language is
technically off-topic. But, please, don't let facts interfere with
your course of action.
Boikat
> The first of Noah s grandsons mentioned is Gomer
<snip>
Well, GoooOOoollllly and Shazam!
You're a sucker for anything, as long as it is anti-mainstream
science, aren't you?
Boikat
John Harshman
claims it? No? Isn't it interesting that the bible makes no claim about
the ancestry of the most population nation on earth, which has been so
through most of recorded history? (China, in case you have no clue.)
Isn't it odd that the bible makes no mention of the ancestry of the
peoples of the entire New World? Curiously, in fact, it seems to mention
only peoples that the ancient Hebrews knew about. Very odd for a history
that claims to describe the peopling of the entire world.
And your connection of Gomer to the Celts is extraordinarily silly.
Will in New Haven
Now Watson, you know my methods. If a patient ahs a scratch on his
finger, we set him on fire.
The stuff you posted to start this thread is linguisically
indefensible. To point out individual errors would be time-consuming.
--
Will in New Haven
Davej
There is no evidence of a global flood. There is no way to collect up
the animals from far flung continents and islands. There is no way to
have them co-exist with each other on a boat. There is no way to feed
them. There is no way to return them to their original (flood
destroyed) ecosystems. It is only a silly fable for little children.
Boikat
The problem is that there's more than one discrepency. Would you like
to take a stab at explaining how come the first mention of the "Dropa
Stones" appears to be in "Chariots of the Gods"?
>
> I'm glad you are not my doctor. You would want to cut of my hand if I
> has a scratch on my finger!-
The really funny thing is that is doctors adopted you philosophy, they
would want to drill a hole in your head to let the demons out if your
finger got infected because antibiotics were tossed because doctors
can never be 100% sure that they work, due to their limited human
perceptions.
Boikat
Steven L.
You do realize that DNA evidence of human migration patterns totally
contradicts everything you wrote?
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/human-family-tree-3706-interactive
--
Steven L.
Email: sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
Free Lunch
wrote in talk.origins:
It's even worse than that for the religiously-motivated liars who
worship their interpretation of the Bible and the false claims they make
based on their self-worship. The physical evidence shows that the Flood
did not happen. There's no scientific question about it at all. They
have turned an allegorical story into a mockery of the God they claim to
worship.
TomS
<nNudnf2Fs9f...@giganews.com>, John Harshman stated..."
>
>All-seeing-I wrote:
>> The first of Noah�s grandsons mentioned is Gomer. Ezekiel locates the
>> early descendants of Gomer, along with Togarmah (a son of Gomer), in
>> the north quarters (Ezekiel 38:6). In modern Turkey is an area which
>> in New Testament times was called Galatia. The Jewish historian
>> Flavius Josephus records that the people who were called Galatians or
>> Gauls in his day (c. AD 93) were previously called Gomerites.1
>>
>> They migrated westward to what are now called France and Spain. For
>> many centuries France was called Gaul, after the descendants of Gomer.
>> North-west Spain is called Galicia to this day.
>>
>> Some of the Gomerites migrated further to what is now called Wales.
>> The Welsh historian, Davis, records a traditional Welsh belief that
>> about three hundred years after the flood�.2 He also records that the
>> Welsh language is called Gomeraeg (after their ancestor Gomer).
>>
>> Other members of their clan settled along the way, including in
>> Togarmah� (Genesis 10:3). Encyclopaedia Britannica says that the
>> Armenians traditionally claim to be descended from Togarmah and
>> Ashkenaz.3 Ancient Armenia reached into Turkey. The name Turkey
>> probably comes from Togarmah. Others of them migrated to Germany.
>> Ashkenaz is the Hebrew word for Germany.
>>
>> The descendants of Ham live mainly in south-west Asia and Africa. The
>> Bible often refers to Africa as the land of Ham (Psalms 105:23,27;
>> Ethiopia (from Aswan south to Khartoum). Without exception, the word
>> Ethiopia in the English Bible is always a translation of the Hebrew
>> word Cush. Josephus rendered the name as Chus, and says that the
>> Asia, called Chusites�.9
>>
>> Noah�s next grandson mentioned was Mizraim. Mizraim is the Hebrew word
>> for Egypt. The name Egypt appears hundreds of times in the Old
>> Testament and (with one exception) is always a translation of the word
>> Mizraim. E.g. at the burial of Jacob, the Canaanites observed the
>> mourning of the Egyptians and so called the place Abel Mizraim
>> (Genesis 50:11).
>>
>> It is so translated three times in the Old Testament. The ancient
>> Libya (Daniel 11:43). Josephus says, �Phut also was the founder of
>> Libia [sic], and called the inhabitants Phutites, from himself�.9
>>
>> Canaan, the name of Noah�s next grandson, is the Hebrew name for the
>> general region later called by the Romans Palestine, i.e. modern
>> Israel and Jordan. Here we should look briefly at a few of the
>> the ancestor of the Philistines (clearly giving rise to the name
>> Palestine), and Sidon, the founder of the ancient city that bears his
>> name, and Heth, the patriarch of the ancient Hittite empire. Also,
>> the Jebusites (Jebus was the ancient name for Jerusalem�Judges 19:10),
>> the Amorites, the Girgasites, the Hivites, the Arkites, the Sinites,
>> the Arvadites, the Zemarites, and the Hamathites, ancient peoples who
>> lived in the land of Canaan.
>>
>> The most prominent descendant of Ham was Nimrod, the founder of Babel
>> (Babylon), as well as of Erech, Accad and Calneh in Shinar
>> (Babylonia).
>>
>> [more]
>> http://creation.com/the-sixteen-grandsons-of-noah
>>
>Nice. Is there any evidence for any of this, other than that the bible
>claims it? No? Isn't it interesting that the bible makes no claim about
>the ancestry of the most population nation on earth, which has been so
>through most of recorded history? (China, in case you have no clue.)
>Isn't it odd that the bible makes no mention of the ancestry of the
>peoples of the entire New World? Curiously, in fact, it seems to mention
>only peoples that the ancient Hebrews knew about. Very odd for a history
>that claims to describe the peopling of the entire world.
>
>And your connection of Gomer to the Celts is extraordinarily silly.
>
There is a temptation to make up family histories, and a temptation
to believe these made-up family histories, no matter how silly. There
is a temptation to make up histories. Unfortunately some of these are
not just silly, but have lethal consequences.
I will refrain from mentioning several of these made-up histories,
just because I want to avoid religious/political arguments, but I
will cite Geoffrey of Monmouth.
--
---Tom S.
the failure to nail currant jelly to a wall is not due to the nail; it is due to
the currant jelly.
Theodore Roosevelt, Letter to William Thayer, 1915 July 2
Free Lunch
wrote in talk.origins:
>All-seeing-I wrote:
>> The first of Noah�s grandsons mentioned is Gomer. Ezekiel locates the
>> early descendants of Gomer, along with Togarmah (a son of Gomer), in
>> the north quarters (Ezekiel 38:6). In modern Turkey is an area which
>> in New Testament times was called Galatia. The Jewish historian
>> Flavius Josephus records that the people who were called Galatians or
>> Gauls in his day (c. AD 93) were previously called Gomerites.1
>>
>> They migrated westward to what are now called France and Spain. For
>> many centuries France was called Gaul, after the descendants of Gomer.
>> North-west Spain is called Galicia to this day.
>>
>> Some of the Gomerites migrated further to what is now called Wales.
>> The Welsh historian, Davis, records a traditional Welsh belief that
>> the descendants of Gomer �landed on the Isle of Britain from France,
>> about three hundred years after the flood�.2 He also records that the
>> Welsh language is called Gomeraeg (after their ancestor Gomer).
>>
>> Other members of their clan settled along the way, including in
>> Armenia. The sons of Gomer were �Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and
>> Togarmah� (Genesis 10:3). Encyclopaedia Britannica says that the
>> Armenians traditionally claim to be descended from Togarmah and
>> Ashkenaz.3 Ancient Armenia reached into Turkey. The name Turkey
>> probably comes from Togarmah. Others of them migrated to Germany.
>> Ashkenaz is the Hebrew word for Germany.
>>
>> The descendants of Ham live mainly in south-west Asia and Africa. The
>> Bible often refers to Africa as the land of Ham (Psalms 105:23,27;
>> 106:22). The name of Noah�s grandson Cush is the Hebrew word for old
>> Ethiopia (from Aswan south to Khartoum). Without exception, the word
>> Ethiopia in the English Bible is always a translation of the Hebrew
>> word Cush. Josephus rendered the name as Chus, and says that the
>> Ethiopians �are even at this day, both by themselves and by all men in
>> Asia, called Chusites�.9
>
>You do realize that DNA evidence of human migration patterns totally
>contradicts everything you wrote?
>
>http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/human-family-tree-3706-interactive
AsI never lets mere reality get in the way of his doctrines.
Mike Dworetsky
> On Dec 7, 4:24 am, "Mike Dworetsky" <platinum...@pants.btinternet.com>
> wrote:
>> Burkhard wrote:
>>> All-seeing-I wrote:
>>>> the early descendants of Gomer, along with Togarmah (a son of
>>>> Gomer), in the north quarters (Ezekiel 38:6). In modern Turkey is
>>>> an area which in New Testament times was called Galatia. The
>>>> Jewish historian Flavius Josephus records that the people who were
>>>> called Galatians or Gauls in his day (c. AD 93) were previously
>>>> called Gomerites.1
>>
>>>> They migrated westward to what are now called France and Spain. For
>>>> many centuries France was called Gaul, after the descendants of
>>>> Gomer. North-west Spain is called Galicia to this day.
>>
>>>> Some of the Gomerites migrated further to what is now called Wales.
>>>> The Welsh historian, Davis, records a traditional Welsh belief that
>>>> France, about three hundred years after the flood�.2 He also
>>>> records that the Welsh language is called Gomeraeg (after their
>>>> ancestor Gomer).
>>
>>> The name of the Welsh language is derived from Combrogos ("fellow
>>> countryman")See the University of Wales Dictionary, vol. II, p.
>>> 1485, "Gomeriad". The editors note the false etymology that was
>>> proposed briefly in the 18th century (nothing ancient about it), as
>>> a local equivalent of the (inherently racist) British Israelite
>>> movement. See also on the background of this made up etymology
>>
>> I recall that ASI in one of his alternate identities some time ago
>> fell for another British Israelite claim in one of his rants about
>> similarly debunked.
>>
>> He is 100% gullible when it comes to things like this.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>> Other members of their clan settled along the way, including in
>>>> Armenians traditionally claim to be descended from Togarmah and
>>>> Ashkenaz.3 Ancient Armenia reached into Turkey. The name Turkey
>>>> probably comes from Togarmah. Others of them migrated to Germany.
>>>> Ashkenaz is the Hebrew word for Germany.
>>
>>>> The descendants of Ham live mainly in south-west Asia and Africa.
>>>> The Bible often refers to Africa as the land of Ham (Psalms
>>>> word for old Ethiopia (from Aswan south to Khartoum). Without
>>>> exception, the word Ethiopia in the English Bible is always a
>>>> translation of the Hebrew word Cush. Josephus rendered the name as
>>>> themselves and by all men in Asia, called Chusites�.9
>>
>>>> Noah�s next grandson mentioned was Mizraim. Mizraim is the Hebrew
>>>> word for Egypt. The name Egypt appears hundreds of times in the Old
>>>> Testament and (with one exception) is always a translation of the
>>>> word Mizraim. E.g. at the burial of Jacob, the Canaanites observed
>>>> the mourning of the Egyptians and so called the place Abel Mizraim
>>>> (Genesis 50:11).
>>
>>>> Libya. It is so translated three times in the Old Testament. The
>>>> been changed to Libya (Daniel 11:43). Josephus says, �Phut also
>>>> was the founder of Libia [sic], and called the inhabitants
>>
>>>> Canaan, the name of Noah�s next grandson, is the Hebrew name for
>>>> the general region later called by the Romans Palestine, i.e.
>>>> modern Israel and Jordan. Here we should look briefly at a few of
>>>> obviously the ancestor of the Philistines (clearly giving rise to
>>>> the name Palestine), and Sidon, the founder of the ancient city
>>>> that bears his name, and Heth, the patriarch of the ancient
>>>> Hittite empire. Also, this descendant is listed in Genesis
>>>> ancient name for Jerusalem�Judges 19:10), the Amorites, the
>>>> Girgasites, the Hivites, the Arkites, the Sinites, the Arvadites,
>>>> the Zemarites, and the Hamathites, ancient peoples who lived in
>>>> the land of Canaan.
>>
>>>> The most prominent descendant of Ham was Nimrod, the founder of
>>>> Babel (Babylon), as well as of Erech, Accad and Calneh in Shinar
>>>> (Babylonia).
>>
>>>> [more]
>>>> http://creation.com/the-sixteen-grandsons-of-noah
>>
>> --
>> Mike Dworetsky
>>
>> (Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply)- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Once again you zero in on what //may// be a single discrepancy to
> discredit the entire body of work.(but you never seem to be able to
> address the rest of the subject matter no matter what the subject is).
> Are you being deliberitly dishonest? Too dumb to understand maybe?
>
> I'm glad you are not my doctor. You would want to cut of my hand if I
> has a scratch on my finger!
Drama Queen!
If I were your doctor and you came in with a scratch, I'd wonder why you
were bothering me with a triviality, and charge you double the usual fee
just for putting some antiseptic and a band-aid on it.
The unreliable information is central to your claims. Noah was a
mythological person. He never built an ark to hold his family and all the
world's animals, and there was never a universal flood.
How do you know whether the later story tellers didn't actually use the
known names of distant peoples, and use them to make up the names of
"Noah's" sons? Just the opposite of your claim--the sons are named for the
countries, not the other way around.
Mike Dworetsky
> On Dec 7, 7:19 am, All-Seeing-I <allseei...@usa.com> wrote:
>> On Dec 7, 4:24 am, "Mike Dworetsky"[snip]
>>
>> Once again you zero in on what //may// be a single discrepancy to
>> discredit the entire body of work.(but you never seem to be able to
>> address the rest of the subject matter no matter what the subject
>> is). Are you being deliberitly dishonest? Too dumb to understand
>> maybe?
>
>
> The problem is that there's more than one discrepency. Would you like
> to take a stab at explaining how come the first mention of the "Dropa
> Stones" appears to be in "Chariots of the Gods"?
>
>>
>> I'm glad you are not my doctor. You would want to cut of my hand if I
>> has a scratch on my finger!-
>
> The really funny thing is that is doctors adopted you philosophy, they
> would want to drill a hole in your head to let the demons out if your
> finger got infected because antibiotics were tossed because doctors
> can never be 100% sure that they work, due to their limited human
> perceptions.
>
> Boikat
Your reply is slightly wide of the mark, as far as drilling a hole in ASI's
head is concerned, because there is actually clear evidence of ancient
peoples using trepanning as a medical procedure and that the patients
survived.
Boikat
That depends on how deep they drill, and what size bit. Then there's
the paint mixer attatchment...
Boikat
Ye Old One
No it doesn't. It is just stupidity.
>Please go read the TO web
>site and you will find that this is directly on topic for this NG.
>
--
Ye Old One
<allse...@usa.com> enriched this group when s/he wrote:
>On Dec 7, 4:24�am, "Mike Dworetsky" <platinum...@pants.btinternet.com>
>wrote:
>> Burkhard wrote:
>> > All-seeing-I wrote:
>> >> The first of Noah�s grandsons mentioned is Gomer. Ezekiel locates the
>> >> early descendants of Gomer, along with Togarmah (a son of Gomer), in
>> >> the north quarters (Ezekiel 38:6). In modern Turkey is an area which
>> >> in New Testament times was called Galatia. The Jewish historian
>> >> Flavius Josephus records that the people who were called Galatians or
>> >> Gauls in his day (c. AD 93) were previously called Gomerites.1
>>
>> >> They migrated westward to what are now called France and Spain. For
>> >> many centuries France was called Gaul, after the descendants of
>> >> Gomer. North-west Spain is called Galicia to this day.
>>
>> >> Some of the Gomerites migrated further to what is now called Wales.
>> >> The Welsh historian, Davis, records a traditional Welsh belief that
>> >> the descendants of Gomer �landed on the Isle of Britain from France,
>> >> about three hundred years after the flood�.2 He also records that the
>> >> Welsh language is called Gomeraeg (after their ancestor Gomer).
>>
>> > The name of the Welsh language is derived from Combrogos ("fellow
>> > countryman")See the University of Wales Dictionary, vol. II, p. 1485,
>> > "Gomeriad". The editors note the false etymology that was proposed
>> > briefly in the 18th century (nothing ancient about it), as a local
>> > equivalent of the (inherently racist) British Israelite movement. See
>> > also on the background of this made up etymology �Piggot, The Druids
>> > Thames and Hudson:London pp. 132 and �172.
>>
>> I recall that ASI in one of his alternate identities some time ago fell for
>> another British Israelite claim in one of his rants about "ancient
>> documents". �I'm too lazy to look this up but it was similarly debunked.
>>
>> He is 100% gullible when it comes to things like this.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >> Other members of their clan settled along the way, including in
>> >> Armenia. The sons of Gomer were �Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and
>> >> Togarmah� (Genesis 10:3). Encyclopaedia Britannica says that the
>> >> Armenians traditionally claim to be descended from Togarmah and
>> >> Ashkenaz.3 Ancient Armenia reached into Turkey. The name Turkey
>> >> probably comes from Togarmah. Others of them migrated to Germany.
>> >> Ashkenaz is the Hebrew word for Germany.
>>
>> >> The descendants of Ham live mainly in south-west Asia and Africa. The
>> >> Bible often refers to Africa as the land of Ham (Psalms 105:23,27;
>> >> 106:22). The name of Noah�s grandson Cush is the Hebrew word for old
>> >> Ethiopia (from Aswan south to Khartoum). Without exception, the word
>> >> Ethiopia in the English Bible is always a translation of the Hebrew
>> >> word Cush. Josephus rendered the name as Chus, and says that the
>> >> Ethiopians �are even at this day, both by themselves and by all men
>> >> in Asia, called Chusites�.9
>>
>> >> Noah�s next grandson mentioned was Mizraim. Mizraim is the Hebrew
>> >> word for Egypt. The name Egypt appears hundreds of times in the Old
>> >> Testament and (with one exception) is always a translation of the
>> >> word Mizraim. E.g. at the burial of Jacob, the Canaanites observed
>> >> the mourning of the Egyptians and so called the place Abel Mizraim
>> >> (Genesis 50:11).
>>
>> >> Phut, the name of Noah�s next grandson is the Hebrew name for Libya.
>> >> It is so translated three times in the Old Testament. The ancient
>> >> river Phut was in Libya. By Daniel�s day, the name had been changed
>> >> to Libya (Daniel 11:43). Josephus says, �Phut also was the founder of
>> >> Libia [sic], and called the inhabitants Phutites, from himself�.9
>>
>> >> Canaan, the name of Noah�s next grandson, is the Hebrew name for the
>> >> general region later called by the Romans Palestine, i.e. modern
>> >> Israel and Jordan. Here we should look briefly at a few of the
>> >> descendants of Ham (Genesis 10:14�18). There is Philistim, obviously
>> >> the ancestor of the Philistines (clearly giving rise to the name
>> >> Palestine), and Sidon, the founder of the ancient city that bears his
>> >> name, and Heth, the patriarch of the ancient Hittite empire. Also,
>> >> this descendant is listed in Genesis 10:15�18 as being the ancestor
>> >> of the Jebusites (Jebus was the ancient name for Jerusalem�Judges
>> >> 19:10), the Amorites, the Girgasites, the Hivites, the Arkites, the
>> >> Sinites, the Arvadites, the Zemarites, and the Hamathites, ancient
>> >> peoples who lived in the land of Canaan.
>>
>> >> The most prominent descendant of Ham was Nimrod, the founder of Babel
>> >> (Babylon), as well as of Erech, Accad and Calneh in Shinar
>> >> (Babylonia).
>>
>> >> [more]
>> >>http://creation.com/the-sixteen-grandsons-of-noah
>>
>> --
>> Mike Dworetsky
>>
>> (Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply)- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>Once again you zero in on what //may// be a single discrepancy to
>discredit the entire body of work.(but you never seem to be able to
>address the rest of the subject matter no matter what the subject is).
>Are you being deliberitly dishonest? Too dumb to understand maybe?
>
>I'm glad you are not my doctor. You would want to cut of my hand if I
>has a scratch on my finger!
>
There are too many errors in everything you post to warrant pointing
out every single one.
You should be shunned for such abject, but that would be the easy way
for you to escape and not face up to at least these two examples of
your past stupid claims.
1) That the actor Paul Newman was a creationist...
[Message-ID: <e3xDk.44738$De7....@bignews7.bellsouth.net>]
2) That "Dr." Kent Hovind has made lots of *scientific* discoveries...
[Message-ID: <3Olyk.31543$Ep1....@bignews2.bellsouth.net>]
Now, all you have to do is justify them, with evidence of course, or
finally admit you were a fool to make them.
Or are you just going to go on being a cowardly lying troll?
--
Bob.
When D-G made Madman out of clay he forgot to magic the brain. I think
that explains everything.
Paul J Gans
>> early descendants of Gomer, along with Togarmah (a son of Gomer), in
>> the north quarters (Ezekiel 38:6). In modern Turkey is an area which
>> in New Testament times was called Galatia. The Jewish historian
>> Flavius Josephus records that the people who were called Galatians or
>> Gauls in his day (c. AD 93) were previously called Gomerites.1
>>
>> They migrated westward to what are now called France and Spain. For
>> many centuries France was called Gaul, after the descendants of Gomer.
>> North-west Spain is called Galicia to this day.
>>
>> Some of the Gomerites migrated further to what is now called Wales.
>> The Welsh historian, Davis, records a traditional Welsh belief that
>> about three hundred years after the flood’.2 He also records that the
>> Welsh language is called Gomeraeg (after their ancestor Gomer).
>>
>> Other members of their clan settled along the way, including in
>> Togarmah’ (Genesis 10:3). Encyclopaedia Britannica says that the
>> Armenians traditionally claim to be descended from Togarmah and
>> Ashkenaz.3 Ancient Armenia reached into Turkey. The name Turkey
>> probably comes from Togarmah. Others of them migrated to Germany.
>> Ashkenaz is the Hebrew word for Germany.
>>
>> The descendants of Ham live mainly in south-west Asia and Africa. The
>> Bible often refers to Africa as the land of Ham (Psalms 105:23,27;
>> Ethiopia (from Aswan south to Khartoum). Without exception, the word
>> Ethiopia in the English Bible is always a translation of the Hebrew
>> word Cush. Josephus rendered the name as Chus, and says that the
>> Asia, called Chusites’.9
>You do realize that DNA evidence of human migration patterns totally
>contradicts everything you wrote?
>http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/human-family-tree-3706-interactive
But since he starts with the Bible as axiomatically true, the
DNA evidence must be wrong. Probably due to the malign influence
of the Devil.
As hard as it is to accept, he's being true to his own logic.
Of course then he has to explain why God allows the Devil to
completely hide the evidence of God's working, but hey...
--
--- Paul J. Gans
MAB
> >> early descendants of Gomer, along with Togarmah (a son of Gomer), in
> >> the north quarters (Ezekiel 38:6). In modern Turkey is an area which
> >> in New Testament times was called Galatia. The Jewish historian
> >> Flavius Josephus records that the people who were called Galatians or
> >> Gauls in his day (c. AD 93) were previously called Gomerites.1
>
> >> They migrated westward to what are now called France and Spain. For
> >> many centuries France was called Gaul, after the descendants of Gomer.
> >> North-west Spain is called Galicia to this day.
>
> >> Some of the Gomerites migrated further to what is now called Wales.
> >> The Welsh historian, Davis, records a traditional Welsh belief that
> >> about three hundred years after the flood�.2 He also records that the
> >> Welsh language is called Gomeraeg (after their ancestor Gomer).
>
> >> Other members of their clan settled along the way, including in
> >> Armenians traditionally claim to be descended from Togarmah and
> >> Ashkenaz.3 Ancient Armenia reached into Turkey. The name Turkey
> >> probably comes from Togarmah. Others of them migrated to Germany.
> >> Ashkenaz is the Hebrew word for Germany.
>
> >> The descendants of Ham live mainly in south-west Asia and Africa. The
> >> Bible often refers to Africa as the land of Ham (Psalms 105:23,27;
> >> Ethiopia (from Aswan south to Khartoum). Without exception, the word
> >> Ethiopia in the English Bible is always a translation of the Hebrew
> >> word Cush. Josephus rendered the name as Chus, and says that the
> >> Asia, called Chusites�.9
> >You do realize that DNA evidence of human migration patterns totally
> >contradicts everything you wrote?
>
> But since he starts with the Bible as axiomatically true, the
> of the Devil.
>
> As hard as it is to accept, he's being true to his own logic.
>
> Of course then he has to explain why God allows the Devil to
> completely hide the evidence of God's working, but hey...
>
> --
No no no - it wasn't the devil, don't you understand that scientists,
being lowly mortals, can't 'interpret' the evidence properly. We all
must rely on the his highness the the All-Seeing one to show us the
way to truth. And please don't let the fact that he can't even explain
how he is supposed to lead us to the truth get in the way.
Mark Buchanan
All-Seeing-I
BEEEEEP!
Wrong answer. Do not pass GO do not collect $200
All-Seeing-I
<platinum...@pants.btinternet.com> wrote:
> All-Seeing-I wrote:
> > On Dec 7, 4:24 am, "Mike Dworetsky" <platinum...@pants.btinternet.com>
> > wrote:
> >> Burkhard wrote:
> >>> All-seeing-I wrote:
> >>>> the early descendants of Gomer, along with Togarmah (a son of
> >>>> Gomer), in the north quarters (Ezekiel 38:6). In modern Turkey is
> >>>> an area which in New Testament times was called Galatia. The
> >>>> Jewish historian Flavius Josephus records that the people who were
> >>>> called Galatians or Gauls in his day (c. AD 93) were previously
> >>>> called Gomerites.1
>
> >>>> They migrated westward to what are now called France and Spain. For
> >>>> many centuries France was called Gaul, after the descendants of
> >>>> Gomer. North-west Spain is called Galicia to this day.
>
> >>>> Some of the Gomerites migrated further to what is now called Wales.
> >>>> The Welsh historian, Davis, records a traditional Welsh belief that
> >>>> France, about three hundred years after the flood�.2 He also
> >>>> records that the Welsh language is called Gomeraeg (after their
> >>>> ancestor Gomer).
>
> >>> The name of the Welsh language is derived from Combrogos ("fellow
> >>> countryman")See the University of Wales Dictionary, vol. II, p.
> >>> 1485, "Gomeriad". The editors note the false etymology that was
> >>> proposed briefly in the 18th century (nothing ancient about it), as
> >>> a local equivalent of the (inherently racist) British Israelite
> >>> movement. See also on the background of this made up etymology
> >>> Piggot, The Druids Thames and Hudson:London pp. 132 and 172.
>
> >> I recall that ASI in one of his alternate identities some time ago
> >> fell for another British Israelite claim in one of his rants about
> >> "ancient documents". I'm too lazy to look this up but it was
> >> similarly debunked.
>
> >> He is 100% gullible when it comes to things like this.
>
> >>>> Other members of their clan settled along the way, including in
> >>>> Armenians traditionally claim to be descended from Togarmah and
> >>>> Ashkenaz.3 Ancient Armenia reached into Turkey. The name Turkey
> >>>> probably comes from Togarmah. Others of them migrated to Germany.
> >>>> Ashkenaz is the Hebrew word for Germany.
>
> >>>> The descendants of Ham live mainly in south-west Asia and Africa.
> >>>> The Bible often refers to Africa as the land of Ham (Psalms
> >>>> word for old Ethiopia (from Aswan south to Khartoum). Without
> >>>> exception, the word Ethiopia in the English Bible is always a
> >>>> translation of the Hebrew word Cush. Josephus rendered the name as
> >>>> themselves and by all men in Asia, called Chusites�.9
>
> >>>> Noah�s next grandson mentioned was Mizraim. Mizraim is the Hebrew
> >>>> word for Egypt. The name Egypt appears hundreds of times in the Old
> >>>> Testament and (with one exception) is always a translation of the
> >>>> word Mizraim. E.g. at the burial of Jacob, the Canaanites observed
> >>>> the mourning of the Egyptians and so called the place Abel Mizraim
> >>>> (Genesis 50:11).
>
> >>>> Libya. It is so translated three times in the Old Testament. The
> >>>> been changed to Libya (Daniel 11:43). Josephus says, �Phut also
> >>>> was the founder of Libia [sic], and called the inhabitants
>
> >>>> Canaan, the name of Noah�s next grandson, is the Hebrew name for
> >>>> the general region later called by the Romans Palestine, i.e.
> >>>> modern Israel and Jordan. Here we should look briefly at a few of
> >>>> obviously the ancestor of the Philistines (clearly giving rise to
> >>>> the name Palestine), and Sidon, the founder of the ancient city
> >>>> that bears his name, and Heth, the patriarch of the ancient
> >>>> Hittite empire. Also, this descendant is listed in Genesis
> >>>> ancient name for Jerusalem�Judges 19:10), the Amorites, the
> >>>> Girgasites, the Hivites, the Arkites, the Sinites, the Arvadites,
> >>>> the Zemarites, and the Hamathites, ancient peoples who lived in
> >>>> the land of Canaan.
>
> >>>> The most prominent descendant of Ham was Nimrod, the founder of
> >>>> Babel (Babylon), as well as of Erech, Accad and Calneh in Shinar
> >>>> (Babylonia).
>
> >>>> [more]
> >>>>http://creation.com/the-sixteen-grandsons-of-noah
>
> >> --
> >> Mike Dworetsky
>
> >> (Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply)- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > Once again you zero in on what //may// be a single discrepancy to
> > discredit the entire body of work.(but you never seem to be able to
> > address the rest of the subject matter no matter what the subject is).
> > Are you being deliberitly dishonest? Too dumb to understand maybe?
>
> > I'm glad you are not my doctor. You would want to cut of my hand if I
> > has a scratch on my finger!
>
> Drama Queen!
>
> If I were your doctor and you came in with a scratch, I'd wonder why you
> were bothering me with a triviality, and charge you double the usual fee
> just for putting some antiseptic and a band-aid on it.
>
> mythological person. �He never built an ark to hold his family and all the
> world's animals, and there was never a universal flood.
>
> How do you know whether the later story tellers didn't actually use the
> known names of distant peoples, and use them to make up the names of
> countries, not the other way around.
Impossible. Unless you think EVERYTHING written down about the past is
just a lie to fool YOU all these years latter.
Will in New Haven
> On Dec 7, 9:32 am, Boikat <boi...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 7, 7:19 am, All-Seeing-I <allseei...@usa.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 7, 4:24 am, "Mike Dworetsky" <platinum...@pants.btinternet.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > Burkhard wrote:
> > > > > All-seeing-I wrote:
> > > > >> early descendants of Gomer, along with Togarmah (a son of Gomer), in
> > > > >> the north quarters (Ezekiel 38:6). In modern Turkey is an area which
> > > > >> in New Testament times was called Galatia. The Jewish historian
> > > > >> Flavius Josephus records that the people who were called Galatians or
> > > > >> Gauls in his day (c. AD 93) were previously called Gomerites.1
>
> > > > >> They migrated westward to what are now called France and Spain. For
> > > > >> many centuries France was called Gaul, after the descendants of
> > > > >> Gomer. North-west Spain is called Galicia to this day.
>
> > > > >> Some of the Gomerites migrated further to what is now called Wales.
> > > > >> The Welsh historian, Davis, records a traditional Welsh belief that
> > > > >> about three hundred years after the flood .2 He also records that the
> > > > >> Welsh language is called Gomeraeg (after their ancestor Gomer).
>
> > > > > The name of the Welsh language is derived from Combrogos ("fellow
> > > > > countryman")See the University of Wales Dictionary, vol. II, p. 1485,
> > > > > "Gomeriad". The editors note the false etymology that was proposed
> > > > > briefly in the 18th century (nothing ancient about it), as a local
> > > > > equivalent of the (inherently racist) British Israelite movement. See
> > > > > Thames and Hudson:London pp. 132 and 172.
>
> > > > I recall that ASI in one of his alternate identities some time ago fell for
> > > > another British Israelite claim in one of his rants about "ancient
>
> > > > He is 100% gullible when it comes to things like this.
>
> > > > >> Other members of their clan settled along the way, including in
> > > > >> Togarmah (Genesis 10:3). Encyclopaedia Britannica says that the
> > > > >> Armenians traditionally claim to be descended from Togarmah and
> > > > >> Ashkenaz.3 Ancient Armenia reached into Turkey. The name Turkey
> > > > >> probably comes from Togarmah. Others of them migrated to Germany.
> > > > >> Ashkenaz is the Hebrew word for Germany.
>
> > > > >> The descendants of Ham live mainly in south-west Asia and Africa. The
> > > > >> Bible often refers to Africa as the land of Ham (Psalms 105:23,27;
> > > > >> Ethiopia (from Aswan south to Khartoum). Without exception, the word
> > > > >> Ethiopia in the English Bible is always a translation of the Hebrew
> > > > >> word Cush. Josephus rendered the name as Chus, and says that the
> > > > >> in Asia, called Chusites .9
>
> > > > >> Noah s next grandson mentioned was Mizraim. Mizraim is the Hebrew
> > > > >> word for Egypt. The name Egypt appears hundreds of times in the Old
> > > > >> Testament and (with one exception) is always a translation of the
> > > > >> word Mizraim. E.g. at the burial of Jacob, the Canaanites observed
> > > > >> the mourning of the Egyptians and so called the place Abel Mizraim
> > > > >> (Genesis 50:11).
>
> > > > >> It is so translated three times in the Old Testament. The ancient
> > > > >> to Libya (Daniel 11:43). Josephus says, Phut also was the founder of
> > > > >> Libia [sic], and called the inhabitants Phutites, from himself .9
>
> > > > >> Canaan, the name of Noah s next grandson, is the Hebrew name for the
> > > > >> general region later called by the Romans Palestine, i.e. modern
> > > > >> Israel and Jordan. Here we should look briefly at a few of the
> > > > >> the ancestor of the Philistines (clearly giving rise to the name
> > > > >> Palestine), and Sidon, the founder of the ancient city that bears his
> > > > >> name, and Heth, the patriarch of the ancient Hittite empire. Also,
> > > > >> of the Jebusites (Jebus was the ancient name for Jerusalem Judges
> > > > >> 19:10), the Amorites, the Girgasites, the Hivites, the Arkites, the
> > > > >> Sinites, the Arvadites, the Zemarites, and the Hamathites, ancient
> > > > >> peoples who lived in the land of Canaan.
>
> > > > >> The most prominent descendant of Ham was Nimrod, the founder of Babel
> > > > >> (Babylon), as well as of Erech, Accad and Calneh in Shinar
> > > > >> (Babylonia).
>
> > > > >> [more]
> > > > >>http://creation.com/the-sixteen-grandsons-of-noah
>
> > > > --
> > > > Mike Dworetsky
>
> > > > (Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply)- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > Once again you zero in on what //may// be a single discrepancy to
> > > discredit the entire body of work.(but you never seem to be able to
> > > address the rest of the subject matter no matter what the subject is).
> > > Are you being deliberitly dishonest? Too dumb to understand maybe?
>
> > The problem is that there's more than one discrepency.
>
> BEEEEEP!
>
You do not have a Monopoly(tm) on the truth.
Free Lunch
<allse...@usa.com> wrote in talk.origins:
>On Dec 7, 10:02�am, "Mike Dworetsky"
><platinum...@pants.btinternet.com> wrote:
>> All-Seeing-I wrote:
>> > On Dec 7, 4:24 am, "Mike Dworetsky" <platinum...@pants.btinternet.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >> Burkhard wrote:
>> >>> All-seeing-I wrote:
>> >>>> The first of Noah�s grandsons mentioned is Gomer. Ezekiel locates
>> >>>> the early descendants of Gomer, along with Togarmah (a son of
>> >>>> Gomer), in the north quarters (Ezekiel 38:6). In modern Turkey is
>> >>>> an area which in New Testament times was called Galatia. The
>> >>>> Jewish historian Flavius Josephus records that the people who were
>> >>>> called Galatians or Gauls in his day (c. AD 93) were previously
>> >>>> called Gomerites.1
>>
>> >>>> They migrated westward to what are now called France and Spain. For
>> >>>> many centuries France was called Gaul, after the descendants of
>> >>>> Gomer. North-west Spain is called Galicia to this day.
>>
>> >>>> Some of the Gomerites migrated further to what is now called Wales.
>> >>>> The Welsh historian, Davis, records a traditional Welsh belief that
>> >>>> the descendants of Gomer �landed on the Isle of Britain from
>> >>>> France, about three hundred years after the flood�.2 He also
>> >>>> records that the Welsh language is called Gomeraeg (after their
>> >>>> ancestor Gomer).
>>
>> >>> The name of the Welsh language is derived from Combrogos ("fellow
>> >>> countryman")See the University of Wales Dictionary, vol. II, p.
>> >>> 1485, "Gomeriad". The editors note the false etymology that was
>> >>> proposed briefly in the 18th century (nothing ancient about it), as
>> >>> a local equivalent of the (inherently racist) British Israelite
>> >>> movement. See also on the background of this made up etymology
>> >>> Piggot, The Druids Thames and Hudson:London pp. 132 and 172.
>>
>> >> I recall that ASI in one of his alternate identities some time ago
>> >> fell for another British Israelite claim in one of his rants about
>> >> "ancient documents". I'm too lazy to look this up but it was
>> >> similarly debunked.
>>
>> >> He is 100% gullible when it comes to things like this.
>>
>> >>>> Other members of their clan settled along the way, including in
>> >>>> Armenia. The sons of Gomer were �Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and
>> >>>> Togarmah� (Genesis 10:3). Encyclopaedia Britannica says that the
>> >>>> Armenians traditionally claim to be descended from Togarmah and
>> >>>> Ashkenaz.3 Ancient Armenia reached into Turkey. The name Turkey
>> >>>> probably comes from Togarmah. Others of them migrated to Germany.
>> >>>> Ashkenaz is the Hebrew word for Germany.
>>
>> >>>> The descendants of Ham live mainly in south-west Asia and Africa.
>> >>>> The Bible often refers to Africa as the land of Ham (Psalms
>> >>>> 105:23,27; 106:22). The name of Noah�s grandson Cush is the Hebrew
>> >>>> word for old Ethiopia (from Aswan south to Khartoum). Without
>> >>>> exception, the word Ethiopia in the English Bible is always a
>> >>>> translation of the Hebrew word Cush. Josephus rendered the name as
>> >>>> Chus, and says that the Ethiopians �are even at this day, both by
>> >>>> themselves and by all men in Asia, called Chusites�.9
>>
>> >>>> Noah�s next grandson mentioned was Mizraim. Mizraim is the Hebrew
>> >>>> word for Egypt. The name Egypt appears hundreds of times in the Old
>> >>>> Testament and (with one exception) is always a translation of the
>> >>>> word Mizraim. E.g. at the burial of Jacob, the Canaanites observed
>> >>>> the mourning of the Egyptians and so called the place Abel Mizraim
>> >>>> (Genesis 50:11).
>>
>> >>>> Phut, the name of Noah�s next grandson is the Hebrew name for
>> >>>> Libya. It is so translated three times in the Old Testament. The
>> >>>> ancient river Phut was in Libya. By Daniel�s day, the name had
>> >>>> been changed to Libya (Daniel 11:43). Josephus says, �Phut also
>> >>>> was the founder of Libia [sic], and called the inhabitants
>> >>>> Phutites, from himself�.9
>>
>> >>>> Canaan, the name of Noah�s next grandson, is the Hebrew name for
>> >>>> the general region later called by the Romans Palestine, i.e.
>> >>>> modern Israel and Jordan. Here we should look briefly at a few of
>> >>>> the descendants of Ham (Genesis 10:14�18). There is Philistim,
>> >>>> obviously the ancestor of the Philistines (clearly giving rise to
>> >>>> the name Palestine), and Sidon, the founder of the ancient city
>> >>>> that bears his name, and Heth, the patriarch of the ancient
>> >>>> Hittite empire. Also, this descendant is listed in Genesis
>> >>>> 10:15�18 as being the ancestor of the Jebusites (Jebus was the
>> >>>> ancient name for Jerusalem�Judges 19:10), the Amorites, the
>> >>>> Girgasites, the Hivites, the Arkites, the Sinites, the Arvadites,
>> >>>> the Zemarites, and the Hamathites, ancient peoples who lived in
>> >>>> the land of Canaan.
>>
>> >>>> The most prominent descendant of Ham was Nimrod, the founder of
>> >>>> Babel (Babylon), as well as of Erech, Accad and Calneh in Shinar
>> >>>> (Babylonia).
>>
>> >>>> [more]
>> >>>>http://creation.com/the-sixteen-grandsons-of-noah
>>
>> >> --
>> >> Mike Dworetsky
>>
>> >> (Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply)- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> > Once again you zero in on what //may// be a single discrepancy to
>> > discredit the entire body of work.(but you never seem to be able to
>> > address the rest of the subject matter no matter what the subject is).
>> > Are you being deliberitly dishonest? Too dumb to understand maybe?
>>
>> > I'm glad you are not my doctor. You would want to cut of my hand if I
>> > has a scratch on my finger!
>>
>> Drama Queen!
>>
>> If I were your doctor and you came in with a scratch, I'd wonder why you
>> were bothering me with a triviality, and charge you double the usual fee
>> just for putting some antiseptic and a band-aid on it.
>>
>> The unreliable information is central to your claims. �Noah was a
>> mythological person. �He never built an ark to hold his family and all the
>> world's animals, and there was never a universal flood.
>>
>> How do you know whether the later story tellers didn't actually use the
>> known names of distant peoples, and use them to make up the names of
>> "Noah's" sons? �Just the opposite of your claim--the sons are named for the
>> countries, not the other way around.
>
>
>Impossible. Unless you think EVERYTHING written down about the past is
>just a lie to fool YOU all these years latter.
Some people are able to tell the purpose of a story. Some people know
that stories that are not congruent with reality cannot be treated as
histories. You appear to be incapable of handling either of these common
sense analyses of stories.
Do you really think your God demands that you be foolish and ignorant?
Can you show me where your religion requires this?
Bruce Stephens
[...]
> Impossible. Unless you think EVERYTHING written down about the past is
> just a lie to fool YOU all these years latter.
Sheesh, always with the absolutes.
How about if we believe that SOME things written down about the past are
incorrect, written for a variety of purposes?
All-Seeing-I
> On Dec 7, 8:20�am, All-Seeing-I <allseei...@usa.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 7, 5:14�am, Eric Root <er...@swva.net> wrote:
> > > newsgroup?
>
> > > Eric Root
>
> > This has to do with ORIGINS, of language. Please go read the TO web
> > site and you will find that this is directly on topic for this NG.
>
> From <http://www.ediacara.org/~to/charter.html>:
> "The newsgroup talk.origins is meant as a venue for discussion of the
> scientific, religious, and political issues pertaining to various
> theories of the origins and development of life and the universe."
>
> The way I read that, it seems that the origins of language is
> technically off-topic. But, please, don't let facts interfere with
>
> - Show quoted text -
For the LAST TIME:
<QUOTE>
Talk.origins ("t.o.") is a newsgroup devoted to the discussion of
issues related to biological and physical origins. Topics discussed
include, but are not limited to, evolution, creation, abiogenesis,
catastrophism, cosmology, and theology. Be assured that you will find
lively, often heated, exchanges between people of all persuasions.
Much of the bandwidth of t.o. is used for discussion of the merits of
various ideas about origins. Other types of posts, however, are
welcome (and, in fact, refreshing!), particularly [MI]:
�A scientific Theory of Creation
�Personal experiences which have affected your attitudes on the
subject
�Relevant news, scientific and/or political
�Anything original, entertaining, and/or downright brilliant :-)
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-welcome.html
<END QUOTE>
1) This topic falls under "theology"
2) This topic falls under "creation"
3) This topic falls under " various ideas about origins".
Specifically: Language
finally and most importantly, number 4) This topic falls under:
"�Anything original, entertaining, and/or downright brilliant :-)"
Of which. ALL of my posts fall under number 4 <G>
--
Teaching them how to read with....
The All Seeing I
Boikat
> On Dec 7, 9:32 am, Boikat <boi...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 7, 7:19 am, All-Seeing-I <allseei...@usa.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 7, 4:24 am, "Mike Dworetsky" <platinum...@pants.btinternet.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > Burkhard wrote:
> > > > > All-seeing-I wrote:
> > > > >> early descendants of Gomer, along with Togarmah (a son of Gomer), in
> > > > >> the north quarters (Ezekiel 38:6). In modern Turkey is an area which
> > > > >> in New Testament times was called Galatia. The Jewish historian
> > > > >> Flavius Josephus records that the people who were called Galatians or
> > > > >> Gauls in his day (c. AD 93) were previously called Gomerites.1
>
> > > > >> They migrated westward to what are now called France and Spain. For
> > > > >> many centuries France was called Gaul, after the descendants of
> > > > >> Gomer. North-west Spain is called Galicia to this day.
>
> > > > >> Some of the Gomerites migrated further to what is now called Wales.
> > > > >> The Welsh historian, Davis, records a traditional Welsh belief that
> > > > >> about three hundred years after the flood .2 He also records that the
> > > > >> Welsh language is called Gomeraeg (after their ancestor Gomer).
>
> > > > > The name of the Welsh language is derived from Combrogos ("fellow
> > > > > countryman")See the University of Wales Dictionary, vol. II, p. 1485,
> > > > > "Gomeriad". The editors note the false etymology that was proposed
> > > > > briefly in the 18th century (nothing ancient about it), as a local
> > > > > equivalent of the (inherently racist) British Israelite movement. See
> > > > > Thames and Hudson:London pp. 132 and 172.
>
> > > > I recall that ASI in one of his alternate identities some time ago fell for
> > > > another British Israelite claim in one of his rants about "ancient
>
> > > > He is 100% gullible when it comes to things like this.
>
> > > > >> Other members of their clan settled along the way, including in
> > > > >> Armenians traditionally claim to be descended from Togarmah and
> > > > >> Ashkenaz.3 Ancient Armenia reached into Turkey. The name Turkey
> > > > >> probably comes from Togarmah. Others of them migrated to Germany.
> > > > >> Ashkenaz is the Hebrew word for Germany.
>
> > > > >> The descendants of Ham live mainly in south-west Asia and Africa. The
> > > > >> Bible often refers to Africa as the land of Ham (Psalms 105:23,27;
> > > > >> Ethiopia (from Aswan south to Khartoum). Without exception, the word
> > > > >> Ethiopia in the English Bible is always a translation of the Hebrew
> > > > >> word Cush. Josephus rendered the name as Chus, and says that the
> > > > >> in Asia, called Chusites .9
>
> > > > >> Noah s next grandson mentioned was Mizraim. Mizraim is the Hebrew
> > > > >> word for Egypt. The name Egypt appears hundreds of times in the Old
> > > > >> Testament and (with one exception) is always a translation of the
> > > > >> word Mizraim. E.g. at the burial of Jacob, the Canaanites observed
> > > > >> the mourning of the Egyptians and so called the place Abel Mizraim
> > > > >> (Genesis 50:11).
>
> > > > >> It is so translated three times in the Old Testament. The ancient
> > > > >> to Libya (Daniel 11:43). Josephus says, Phut also was the founder of
> > > > >> Libia [sic], and called the inhabitants Phutites, from himself .9
>
> > > > >> Canaan, the name of Noah s next grandson, is the Hebrew name for the
> > > > >> general region later called by the Romans Palestine, i.e. modern
> > > > >> Israel and Jordan. Here we should look briefly at a few of the
> > > > >> the ancestor of the Philistines (clearly giving rise to the name
> > > > >> Palestine), and Sidon, the founder of the ancient city that bears his
> > > > >> name, and Heth, the patriarch of the ancient Hittite empire. Also,
> > > > >> of the Jebusites (Jebus was the ancient name for Jerusalem Judges
> > > > >> 19:10), the Amorites, the Girgasites, the Hivites, the Arkites, the
> > > > >> Sinites, the Arvadites, the Zemarites, and the Hamathites, ancient
> > > > >> peoples who lived in the land of Canaan.
>
> > > > >> The most prominent descendant of Ham was Nimrod, the founder of Babel
> > > > >> (Babylon), as well as of Erech, Accad and Calneh in Shinar
> > > > >> (Babylonia).
>
> > > > >> [more]
> > > > >>http://creation.com/the-sixteen-grandsons-of-noah
>
> > > > --
> > > > Mike Dworetsky
>
> > > > (Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply)- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > Once again you zero in on what //may// be a single discrepancy to
> > > discredit the entire body of work.(but you never seem to be able to
> > > address the rest of the subject matter no matter what the subject is).
> > > Are you being deliberitly dishonest? Too dumb to understand maybe?
>
> > The problem is that there's more than one discrepency.
>
> BEEEEEP!
>
You're an idiot.
Boikat
Boikat
And you are a gullible fool to swallow everything written down about
the past as "The Truth"(tm). And don't give me that *bullshit* about
"not having proper perceptive abilities". After all, if *you* had the
"proper perceptive abilities", you would not have fallen for that
"Dropa Stones" bullshit. How does it feel to be duped?
Boikat
Dan Listermann
"All-Seeing-I" <allse...@usa.com> wrote in message
news:9dc31f31-d715-423c...@g22g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 7, 10:02 am, "Mike Dworetsky"
> <platinum...@pants.btinternet.com> wrote:
>> How do you know whether the later story tellers didn't actually use the
>> known names of distant peoples, and use them to make up the names of
>> countries, not the other way around.
>
>
> Impossible. Unless you think EVERYTHING written down about the past is
> just a lie to fool YOU all these years latter.
>
>
False dichotomy.
.
All-Seeing-I
Why won't you accept "Textual Evidence"? The same type of textual
evidence that is allowed by governments and courts of law? They seem
to think textual evidence is valid.
Why don't you think textual evidence is so unimportant?
>
> And your connection of Gomer to the Celts is extraordinarily silly.- Hide quoted text
Your reasons?
Free Lunch
<allse...@usa.com> wrote in talk.origins:
>On Dec 7, 9:04�am, John Harshman <jharsh...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>> All-seeing-I wrote:
>> > The first of Noah�s grandsons mentioned is Gomer. Ezekiel locates the
>> > early descendants of Gomer, along with Togarmah (a son of Gomer), in
>> > the north quarters (Ezekiel 38:6). In modern Turkey is an area which
>> > in New Testament times was called Galatia. The Jewish historian
>> > Flavius Josephus records that the people who were called Galatians or
>> > Gauls in his day (c. AD 93) were previously called Gomerites.1
>>
>> > They migrated westward to what are now called France and Spain. For
>> > many centuries France was called Gaul, after the descendants of Gomer.
>> > North-west Spain is called Galicia to this day.
>>
>> > Some of the Gomerites migrated further to what is now called Wales.
>> > The Welsh historian, Davis, records a traditional Welsh belief that
>> > the descendants of Gomer �landed on the Isle of Britain from France,
>> > about three hundred years after the flood�.2 He also records that the
>> > Welsh language is called Gomeraeg (after their ancestor Gomer).
>>
>> > Other members of their clan settled along the way, including in
>> > Armenia. The sons of Gomer were �Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and
>> > Togarmah� (Genesis 10:3). Encyclopaedia Britannica says that the
>> > Armenians traditionally claim to be descended from Togarmah and
>> > Ashkenaz.3 Ancient Armenia reached into Turkey. The name Turkey
>> > probably comes from Togarmah. Others of them migrated to Germany.
>> > Ashkenaz is the Hebrew word for Germany.
>>
>> > The descendants of Ham live mainly in south-west Asia and Africa. The
>> > Bible often refers to Africa as the land of Ham (Psalms 105:23,27;
>> > 106:22). The name of Noah�s grandson Cush is the Hebrew word for old
>> > Ethiopia (from Aswan south to Khartoum). Without exception, the word
>> > Ethiopia in the English Bible is always a translation of the Hebrew
>> > word Cush. Josephus rendered the name as Chus, and says that the
>> > Ethiopians �are even at this day, both by themselves and by all men in
>> > Asia, called Chusites�.9
>>
>> > Noah�s next grandson mentioned was Mizraim. Mizraim is the Hebrew word
>> > for Egypt. The name Egypt appears hundreds of times in the Old
>> > Testament and (with one exception) is always a translation of the word
>> > Mizraim. E.g. at the burial of Jacob, the Canaanites observed the
>> > mourning of the Egyptians and so called the place Abel Mizraim
>> > (Genesis 50:11).
>>
>> > Phut, the name of Noah�s next grandson is the Hebrew name for Libya.
>> > It is so translated three times in the Old Testament. The ancient
>> > river Phut was in Libya. By Daniel�s day, the name had been changed to
>> > Libya (Daniel 11:43). Josephus says, �Phut also was the founder of
>> > Libia [sic], and called the inhabitants Phutites, from himself�.9
>>
>> > Canaan, the name of Noah�s next grandson, is the Hebrew name for the
>> > general region later called by the Romans Palestine, i.e. modern
>> > Israel and Jordan. Here we should look briefly at a few of the
>> > descendants of Ham (Genesis 10:14�18). There is Philistim, obviously
>> > the ancestor of the Philistines (clearly giving rise to the name
>> > Palestine), and Sidon, the founder of the ancient city that bears his
>> > name, and Heth, the patriarch of the ancient Hittite empire. Also,
>> > this descendant is listed in Genesis 10:15�18 as being the ancestor of
>> > the Jebusites (Jebus was the ancient name for Jerusalem�Judges 19:10),
>> > the Amorites, the Girgasites, the Hivites, the Arkites, the Sinites,
>> > the Arvadites, the Zemarites, and the Hamathites, ancient peoples who
>> > lived in the land of Canaan.
>>
>> > The most prominent descendant of Ham was Nimrod, the founder of Babel
>> > (Babylon), as well as of Erech, Accad and Calneh in Shinar
>> > (Babylonia).
>>
>> > [more]
>> >http://creation.com/the-sixteen-grandsons-of-noah
>>
>> Nice. Is there any evidence for any of this, other than that the bible
>> claims it? No? Isn't it interesting that the bible makes no claim about
>> the ancestry of the most population nation on earth, which has been so
>> through most of recorded history? (China, in case you have no clue.)
>> Isn't it odd that the bible makes no mention of the ancestry of the
>> peoples of the entire New World? Curiously, in fact, it seems to mention
>> only peoples that the ancient Hebrews knew about. Very odd for a history
>> that claims to describe the peopling of the entire world.
>
>Why won't you accept "Textual Evidence"? The same type of textual
>evidence that is allowed by governments and courts of law? They seem
>to think textual evidence is valid.
Courts don't allow that to be used to try to impeach physical evidence.
Once physical evidence is presented, that will control.
>Why don't you think textual evidence is so unimportant?
It is not that it is unimportant, it is that you are so ignorant about
what things were written down and when they were written down. Once
again, you have chosen to present yourself as hopelessly ignorant and
foolish rather than bother to understand the criticisms that have been
made of your erroneous claims.
>> And your connection of Gomer to the Celts is extraordinarily silly.
>
>Your reasons?
Would you listen?
Free Lunch
wrote in talk.origins:
AsI doesn't really understand the concept of storytelling.
Dan Listermann
"Bruce Stephens" <bruce+...@cenderis.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:87aaxue...@cenderis.internal...
> All-Seeing-I <allse...@usa.com> writes:
>
> [...]
>
>> Impossible. Unless you think EVERYTHING written down about the past is
>> just a lie to fool YOU all these years latter.
>
> Sheesh, always with the absolutes.
Absolutism, the hall mark of a conservative mind. It makes thinking easier,
things must be one way or another, no gray to bother evaluating.
.
SkyEyes
> I'm glad you are not my doctor. You would want to cut of my hand if I
> has a scratch on my finger!
Ask teh Ceiling Cat U kin haz Bandaid...?
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
skyeyes nine at cox dot net
Kermit
A paper is evidence that somebody wrote it, that perhaps others read
it, possibly that it was signed. A fantasy novel, for instance, might
be used as evidence in a civil suit based on copyright law. It would
*not be considered evidence that the *content of the document is true.
Document might be records of accounting practices, or inventory.
Something like a diary would be taken with a *big grain of salt. All
sorts of things get written in diaries.
>
> Why don't you think textual evidence is so unimportant?
One: the folks a long time ago knew very little about how the world
works.
Two: many of the claims are refuted by facts.
Three: like today, people write and say thing for a variety of
reasons, often mixing them, and often getting things wrong. There si
no support to believe your absurd claim that ancient peolpe never lied
and never got anything wrong.
Four: Mythology especially is a sort of Rorschach ink blot. Your
peculiar interpretations have no scholastic or evidential support. You
read what you want to see into it, then declare your interpretations
to be infallible. This is unpersuasive.
>
>
>
> > And your connection of Gomer to the Celts is extraordinarily silly.- Hide quoted text
>
> Your reasons?
Kermit
Wombat
> Mike Dworetsky wrote:
> > Burkhard wrote:
> >> All-seeing-I wrote:
> >>> The first of Noah s grandsons mentioned is Gomer. Ezekiel locates the
> >>> early descendants of Gomer, along with Togarmah (a son of Gomer), in
> >>> the north quarters (Ezekiel 38:6). In modern Turkey is an area which
> >>> in New Testament times was called Galatia. The Jewish historian
> >>> Flavius Josephus records that the people who were called Galatians or
> >>> Gauls in his day (c. AD 93) were previously called Gomerites.1
>
> >>> They migrated westward to what are now called France and Spain. For
> >>> many centuries France was called Gaul, after the descendants of
> >>> Gomer. North-west Spain is called Galicia to this day.
>
> >>> Some of the Gomerites migrated further to what is now called Wales.
> >>> The Welsh historian, Davis, records a traditional Welsh belief that
> >>> about three hundred years after the flood .2 He also records that the
> >>> Welsh language is called Gomeraeg (after their ancestor Gomer).
> >> countryman")See the University of Wales Dictionary, vol. II, p. 1485,
> >> "Gomeriad". The editors note the false etymology that was proposed
> >> briefly in the 18th century (nothing ancient about it), as a local
> >> equivalent of the (inherently racist) British Israelite movement. See
> >> also on the background of this made up etymology �Piggot, The Druids
> >> Thames and Hudson:London pp. 132 and �172.
>
> > I recall that ASI in one of his alternate identities some time ago fell for
> > another British Israelite claim in one of his rants about "ancient
> > documents". �I'm too lazy to look this up but it was similarly debunked.
>
> > He is 100% gullible when it comes to things like this.
>
> from Dan. �Funny thing is that while ASI (unlike, to his credit, Ray)
> frequently posts stuff from racist websites, he has also been in the
> past claiming that the British are evil incarnate - he seems not to be
> getting who the British Israelites were, and what their agenda was in
> claiming these historical links.
Since the original name was "Londinium" from its foundation, as a
Londoner I am amused by their complete stupidity.
Wombat
Dan Listermann
> Why won't you accept "Textual Evidence"? The same type of textual
> evidence that is allowed by governments and courts of law? They seem
> to think textual evidence is valid.
>
> Why don't you think textual evidence is so unimportant?
>
Aren't you awfully picky about what "textual evidence" you are willing to
swallow?
.
Kermit
<snip linguistic silliness based on mythology>
A few observations about the Flood:
No single beam of wood could provide the keel for a 450 foot long
boat.
No wooden boat approaching 2/3 that size has survived the ocean. They
leak and break apart.
Creationist accounts for stuffing the animals in the boat are
laughably underestimating (or lying about) the volume of animals, the
volume of food needed, the animals waste produced, and the size needed
for cages, aisles, etc.
How could the food be kept fresh enough for the animals?
How was the water stored, and delivered?
Not to mention one small window as a vent.
How did the animals get to Noah?
How did they return - perhaps the koalas swam, or made a raft of
eucalyptus trees.
What did the lions eat while the zebras were repopulating?
If you think, as some Creationists do, that this was before
Gondwanaland broke up, know that the continents sailing thru the crust
at speeds sufficient to get to where they are now would produce heat
enough to melt the rock and cause tremendous earthquakes, which
curiously were not mentioned in the ancient texts.
Also, the age of fossils after the continental breakup show them
diversifying after it started (the species were isolated), and these
were currently extinct species.
I have killed several houseplants or garden plants over the years. I
wonder what a year under salt water would do? Probably turn it all
into greenish black sludge.
Which means the herbivores wouldn't have anything to eat.
And most of these plants would not be able to reproduce, after soaking
their seeds in salt water.
The genetic diversity shown by living organisms is *far greater than
what biologists know is possible, if they all went thru a bottleneck
of two (or is it 7?) individuals just a few thousand years ago.
Not to mention the idea that most of the species would have to be only
a few thousand years old at most - Creationist attempts to reduce the
load on the ark typically boil down to claiming "all cats come from
the one pair on the ark - they're all the cat kind". Etc.
There was nowhere the water could have come from, nor anywhere the
water could have gone.
Geological evidence refutes the claims of a global flood. For
instance, strata of sedimentary rock showing worm tracks, small animal
tracks, etc, laid down over and over for many tens or hundreds of
meters in depth. This could not have been laid down in a mere 10,000
years, nor all at once in a flood.
Any one of these could have been fixed by an omnipotent being, but
then one has to ask:
"Why would a god kill almost all life, then hide the evidence for this
with dozens of major, but unmentioned, miracles?"
Kermit
Wombat
> "On Mon, 07 Dec 2009 07:04:30 -0800, in article
> <nNudnf2Fs9fihIDWRVn_...@giganews.com>, John Harshman stated..."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >All-seeing-I wrote:
> >> The first of Noah�s grandsons mentioned is Gomer. Ezekiel locates the
> >> early descendants of Gomer, along with Togarmah (a son of Gomer), in
> >> the north quarters (Ezekiel 38:6). In modern Turkey is an area which
> >> in New Testament times was called Galatia. The Jewish historian
> >> Flavius Josephus records that the people who were called Galatians or
> >> Gauls in his day (c. AD 93) were previously called Gomerites.1
>
> >> They migrated westward to what are now called France and Spain. For
> >> many centuries France was called Gaul, after the descendants of Gomer.
> >> North-west Spain is called Galicia to this day.
>
> >> Some of the Gomerites migrated further to what is now called Wales.
> >> The Welsh historian, Davis, records a traditional Welsh belief that
> >> about three hundred years after the flood�.2 He also records that the
> >> Welsh language is called Gomeraeg (after their ancestor Gomer).
>
>
> to believe these made-up family histories, no matter how silly. There
> is a temptation to make up histories. Unfortunately some of these are
> not just silly, but have lethal consequences.
>
> I will refrain from mentioning several of these made-up histories,
> just because I want to avoid religious/political arguments, but I
> will cite Geoffrey of Monmouth.
>
> --
> ---Tom S.
> the failure to nail currant jelly to a wall is not due to the nail; it is due to
> the currant jelly.
> Theodore Roosevelt, Letter to William Thayer, 1915 July 2
I seem to recall that Ray-Ray regards Geoffrey of Monmouth as a
reliable source!
Wombat
RAM
This is an astonishingly boneheaded view of evidence when discussing
science unless it is social science. Evidence for for non-social
scientist has to be generated from nature and not as for social
scientists by people. Your lack of insight into scientific evidence
is remarkable for its ignorance. And as a matter of scientific fact
when textual evidence is employed by social scientists it is always
viewed as social constructed reality. That is why many religionists
and all Christianists detest social sciences. Indeed "The Course of
Positive Philosophy" the initial work by Simon that began the social
sciences is one of ten books that conservatives say should not have
been written.
>
> Why don't you think textual evidence is so unimportant?
>
Because it is a social construction of reality that is subject to no
rational or systematic efforts to produce reliable and valid
scientific evidence.
Even on a superficial level your textual evidence would not be
submissible to a court of law which can have notoriously inadequate
evidence procedures.
>
>
> > And your connection of Gomer to the Celts is extraordinarily silly.- Hide quoted text
>
> Your reasons?
These are myths that were socially constructed for sacred reasons not
for scientific ones.
Shouldn't that be enough of a hint.
All-seeing-I
> "not having proper perceptive abilities". �After all, if *you* had the
> "proper perceptive abilities", you would not have fallen for that
>
> Boikat- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Those Dopra Stones have your panties in a Wad Boikitty.
It's ok. Most understand that Ham was a real person. And so was his
father, Noah.
So it's OK for you to understand and accept that too.
All-seeing-I
> On Mon, 7 Dec 2009 11:21:44 -0800 (PST), All-Seeing-I
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Dec 7, 10:02�am, "Mike Dworetsky"
> ><platinum...@pants.btinternet.com> wrote:
> >> All-Seeing-I wrote:
> >> > On Dec 7, 4:24 am, "Mike Dworetsky" <platinum...@pants.btinternet.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >> Burkhard wrote:
> >> >>> All-seeing-I wrote:
> >> >>>> the early descendants of Gomer, along with Togarmah (a son of
> >> >>>> Gomer), in the north quarters (Ezekiel 38:6). In modern Turkey is
> >> >>>> an area which in New Testament times was called Galatia. The
> >> >>>> Jewish historian Flavius Josephus records that the people who were
> >> >>>> called Galatians or Gauls in his day (c. AD 93) were previously
> >> >>>> called Gomerites.1
>
> >> >>>> They migrated westward to what are now called France and Spain. For
> >> >>>> many centuries France was called Gaul, after the descendants of
> >> >>>> Gomer. North-west Spain is called Galicia to this day.
>
> >> >>>> Some of the Gomerites migrated further to what is now called Wales.
> >> >>>> The Welsh historian, Davis, records a traditional Welsh belief that
> >> >>>> France, about three hundred years after the flood�.2 He also
> >> >>>> records that the Welsh language is called Gomeraeg (after their
> >> >>>> ancestor Gomer).
>
> >> >>> The name of the Welsh language is derived from Combrogos ("fellow
> >> >>> countryman")See the University of Wales Dictionary, vol. II, p.
> >> >>> 1485, "Gomeriad". The editors note the false etymology that was
> >> >>> proposed briefly in the 18th century (nothing ancient about it), as
> >> >>> a local equivalent of the (inherently racist) British Israelite
> >> >>> movement. See also on the background of this made up etymology
> >> >>> Piggot, The Druids Thames and Hudson:London pp. 132 and 172.
>
> >> >> I recall that ASI in one of his alternate identities some time ago
> >> >> fell for another British Israelite claim in one of his rants about
> >> >> "ancient documents". I'm too lazy to look this up but it was
> >> >> similarly debunked.
>
> >> >> He is 100% gullible when it comes to things like this.
>
> >> >>>> Other members of their clan settled along the way, including in
> >> >>>> Armenians traditionally claim to be descended from Togarmah and
> >> >>>> Ashkenaz.3 Ancient Armenia reached into Turkey. The name Turkey
> >> >>>> probably comes from Togarmah. Others of them migrated to Germany.
> >> >>>> Ashkenaz is the Hebrew word for Germany.
>
> >> >>>> The descendants of Ham live mainly in south-west Asia and Africa.
> >> >>>> The Bible often refers to Africa as the land of Ham (Psalms
> >> >>>> word for old Ethiopia (from Aswan south to Khartoum). Without
> >> >>>> exception, the word Ethiopia in the English Bible is always a
> >> >>>> translation of the Hebrew word Cush. Josephus rendered the name as
> >> >>>> themselves and by all men in Asia, called Chusites�.9
>
> >> >>>> Noah�s next grandson mentioned was Mizraim. Mizraim is the Hebrew
> >> >>>> word for Egypt. The name Egypt appears hundreds of times in the Old
> >> >>>> Testament and (with one exception) is always a translation of the
> >> >>>> word Mizraim. E.g. at the burial of Jacob, the Canaanites observed
> >> >>>> the mourning of the Egyptians and so called the place Abel Mizraim
> >> >>>> (Genesis 50:11).
>
> >> >>>> Libya. It is so translated three times in the Old Testament. The
> >> >>>> been changed to Libya (Daniel 11:43). Josephus says, �Phut also
> >> >>>> was the founder of Libia [sic], and called the inhabitants
>
> >> >>>> Canaan, the name of Noah�s next grandson, is the Hebrew name for
> >> >>>> the general region later called by the Romans Palestine, i.e.
> >> >>>> modern Israel and Jordan. Here we should look briefly at a few of
> >> >>>> obviously the ancestor of the Philistines (clearly giving rise to
> >> >>>> the name Palestine), and Sidon, the founder of the ancient city
> >> >>>> that bears his name, and Heth, the patriarch of the ancient
> >> >>>> Hittite empire. Also, this descendant is listed in Genesis
> >> >>>> ancient name for Jerusalem�Judges 19:10), the Amorites, the
> >> >>>> Girgasites, the Hivites, the Arkites, the Sinites, the Arvadites,
> >> >>>> the Zemarites, and the Hamathites, ancient peoples who lived in
> >> >>>> the land of Canaan.
>
> >> >>>> The most prominent descendant of Ham was Nimrod, the founder of
> >> >>>> Babel (Babylon), as well as of Erech, Accad and Calneh in Shinar
> >> >>>> (Babylonia).
>
> >> >>>> [more]
> >> >>>>http://creation.com/the-sixteen-grandsons-of-noah
>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Mike Dworetsky
>
> >> >> (Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply)- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> >> > Once again you zero in on what //may// be a single discrepancy to
> >> > discredit the entire body of work.(but you never seem to be able to
> >> > address the rest of the subject matter no matter what the subject is).
> >> > Are you being deliberitly dishonest? Too dumb to understand maybe?
>
> >> > I'm glad you are not my doctor. You would want to cut of my hand if I
> >> > has a scratch on my finger!
>
> >> Drama Queen!
>
> >> If I were your doctor and you came in with a scratch, I'd wonder why you
> >> were bothering me with a triviality, and charge you double the usual fee
> >> just for putting some antiseptic and a band-aid on it.
>
> >> mythological person. �He never built an ark to hold his family and all the
> >> world's animals, and there was never a universal flood.
>
> >> How do you know whether the later story tellers didn't actually use the
> >> known names of distant peoples, and use them to make up the names of
> >> countries, not the other way around.
>
> >Impossible. Unless you think EVERYTHING written down about the past is
> >just a lie to fool YOU all these years latter.
>
> Some people are able to tell the purpose of a story. Some people know
> that stories that are not congruent with reality cannot be treated as
> histories. You appear to be incapable of handling either of these common
> sense analyses of stories.
This would be the evolutionist down to a Tee.
>
> Do you really think your God demands that you be foolish and ignorant?
> Can you show me where your religion requires this.
Can you show why your religion and god has you compelled to mislead
everyone you come in contacy with?
All-seeing-I
> On Dec 7, 1:49�am, All-seeing-I <ap...@email.com> wrote:
>
> > The first of Noah s grandsons mentioned is Gomer
>
>
> Well, GoooOOoollllly and Shazam!
>
> You're a sucker for anything, as long as it is anti-mainstream
> science, aren't you?
>
> Boikat
Mainstream science has lost it's way Boikitty. Primarily due to people
such as your self. Science is the exploratation of everything no
matter how seemingly impossible. Science is an intelligence that
indeed goes way, way, beyond your ability to understand.
Science use to be quite a nobel profession; One to be admired. People
that think like you think however, have ruined science.
I'm here to edcuate you on what science is all about Boikitty.
Science is about posibilties and not about conforming to your ridged
thinking.
Mark Evans
Much of what is written down is grossly inaccurate, especially when it
is a country/peoples "official" history. If you actually read your
vaunted manuscripts you would know this. heck, if you listen to
modern politicians and pundits you would know this. By golly, if you
would just read the crazy posts of this nut job who... Oh, never mind.
mark Evans
sasam2
> The first of Noah s grandsons mentioned is Gomer. Ezekiel locates the
> early descendants of Gomer, along with Togarmah (a son of Gomer), in
> the north quarters (Ezekiel 38:6). In modern Turkey is an area which
> in New Testament times was called Galatia. The Jewish historian
> Flavius Josephus records that the people who were called Galatians or
> Gauls in his day (c. AD 93) were previously called Gomerites.1
To my best knowledge - after their period of dominance over Europe -
the Celts fled before the Germanic tribes South, West and East. Some
of the Celts settled in Turkey - from there the name Galatia.
> They migrated westward to what are now called France and Spain. For
> many centuries France was called Gaul, after the descendants of Gomer.
> North-west Spain is called Galicia to this day.
Etymology is a mine-field of misinterpretations and you get experts
arguing for years over their individual theories. These tend to give
any lay interpretation a mere glance with instant ridicule - in most
cases justifyable.
Any etymological theory should be backed up by solid archeological
evidence. This is very difficult in the European bronze age where
their culture did not prescribe the keeping of records as extensive as
in Mesopotamia.
> Some of the Gomerites migrated further to what is now called Wales.
> The Welsh historian, Davis, records a traditional Welsh belief that
> the descendants of Gomer landed on the Isle of Britain from France,
> about three hundred years after the flood .2 He also records that the
> Welsh language is called Gomeraeg (after their ancestor Gomer).
The problem is that Celtic history is blurred by the fact that the
keeping of written records seemed to be against druidic law to keep
knowledge restricted to the gnostic initiates. To this effect (my pet
theory) the proto-Celtic influence on early civilization is much under-
appreciated.
Cheers
Sam
All-seeing-I
>
> - Show quoted text -
Kermit, youe skeptical nature borders on mental illness at times, or
you just LIKE trying to get under my skin...
I vote both. You like to get under my skin with your skeptical nature
that borders on mental illness.
:-)
All-seeing-I
> "All-Seeing-I" <allseei...@usa.com> wrote in message
But after comparison and investigation some txts are simply relegated
to stupidity, but some become actual evidence of events that may have
taken place from corroboration and correlation.
All-seeing-I
> On Mon, 7 Dec 2009 11:41:17 -0800 (PST), All-Seeing-I
> >> > early descendants of Gomer, along with Togarmah (a son of Gomer), in
> >> > the north quarters (Ezekiel 38:6). In modern Turkey is an area which
> >> > in New Testament times was called Galatia. The Jewish historian
> >> > Flavius Josephus records that the people who were called Galatians or
> >> > Gauls in his day (c. AD 93) were previously called Gomerites.1
>
> >> > They migrated westward to what are now called France and Spain. For
> >> > many centuries France was called Gaul, after the descendants of Gomer.
> >> > North-west Spain is called Galicia to this day.
>
> >> > Some of the Gomerites migrated further to what is now called Wales.
> >> > The Welsh historian, Davis, records a traditional Welsh belief that
> >> > about three hundred years after the flood�.2 He also records that the
> >> > Welsh language is called Gomeraeg (after their ancestor Gomer).
>
> >> > Other members of their clan settled along the way, including in
> >> > Armenians traditionally claim to be descended from Togarmah and
> >> > Ashkenaz.3 Ancient Armenia reached into Turkey. The name Turkey
> >> > probably comes from Togarmah. Others of them migrated to Germany.
> >> > Ashkenaz is the Hebrew word for Germany.
>
> >> > The descendants of Ham live mainly in south-west Asia and Africa. The
> >> > Bible often refers to Africa as the land of Ham (Psalms 105:23,27;
> >> > Ethiopia (from Aswan south to Khartoum). Without exception, the word
> >> > Ethiopia in the English Bible is always a translation of the Hebrew
> >> > word Cush. Josephus rendered the name as Chus, and says that the
> >> > Asia, called Chusites�.9
>
> >> > Noah�s next grandson mentioned was Mizraim. Mizraim is the Hebrew word
> >> > for Egypt. The name Egypt appears hundreds of times in the Old
> >> > Testament and (with one exception) is always a translation of the word
> >> > Mizraim. E.g. at the burial of Jacob, the Canaanites observed the
> >> > mourning of the Egyptians and so called the place Abel Mizraim
> >> > (Genesis 50:11).
>
> >> > It is so translated three times in the Old Testament. The ancient
> >> > Libya (Daniel 11:43). Josephus says, �Phut also was the founder of
> >> > Libia [sic], and called the inhabitants Phutites, from himself�.9
>
> >> > Canaan, the name of Noah�s next grandson, is the Hebrew name for the
> >> > general region later called by the Romans Palestine, i.e. modern
> >> > Israel and Jordan. Here we should look briefly at a few of the
> >> > the ancestor of the Philistines (clearly giving rise to the name
> >> > Palestine), and Sidon, the founder of the ancient city that bears his
> >> > name, and Heth, the patriarch of the ancient Hittite empire. Also,
> >> > the Jebusites (Jebus was the ancient name for Jerusalem�Judges 19:10),
Have you considered "Prozac"?
>
> >> And your connection of Gomer to the Celts is extraordinarily silly.
>
> >Your reasons?
>
> Would you listen?- Hide quoted text -
I try to read all posts, though I may not reply to all of them for
obvious reasons. So sure; I will listen
What are your reasons?
All-seeing-I
> "All-Seeing-I" <allseei...@usa.com> wrote in message
evidence?
Mark Evans
Well, the original Welsh were not Celts. The Celts invaded about 2500
years ago and pretty much obliterated the native Welsh culture and
language, imposing their own. And if Gomer was Welsh his name would
be Gwllomyr apPyle. My own name is Welsh but is modern, dating only
back to around the 6th century or so. Wales is a poor country, having
no native source of vowels and having to depend on exports like
Catherine Zeta Jones, Richard Burton and Tom Jones.
Add the history of the British Isles to the ever-growing list of which
old ASI, in all his guises, is pig-ignorant of.
Mark Evans
Mark Evans
> On Dec 7, 1:45 pm, Boikat <boi...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 7, 1:21 pm, All-Seeing-I <allseei...@usa.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 7, 10:02 am, "Mike Dworetsky"
>
> > > <platinum...@pants.btinternet.com> wrote:
> > > > All-Seeing-I wrote:
> > > > > On Dec 7, 4:24 am, "Mike Dworetsky" <platinum...@pants.btinternet.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >> Burkhard wrote:
> > > > >>> All-seeing-I wrote:
> > > > >>>> the early descendants of Gomer, along with Togarmah (a son of
> > > > >>>> Gomer), in the north quarters (Ezekiel 38:6). In modern Turkey is
> > > > >>>> an area which in New Testament times was called Galatia. The
> > > > >>>> Jewish historian Flavius Josephus records that the people who were
> > > > >>>> called Galatians or Gauls in his day (c. AD 93) were previously
> > > > >>>> called Gomerites.1
>
> > > > >>>> They migrated westward to what are now called France and Spain. For
> > > > >>>> many centuries France was called Gaul, after the descendants of
> > > > >>>> Gomer. North-west Spain is called Galicia to this day.
>
> > > > >>>> Some of the Gomerites migrated further to what is now called Wales.
> > > > >>>> The Welsh historian, Davis, records a traditional Welsh belief that
> > > > >>>> France, about three hundred years after the flood .2 He also
> > > > >>>> records that the Welsh language is called Gomeraeg (after their
> > > > >>>> ancestor Gomer).
>
> > > > >>> The name of the Welsh language is derived from Combrogos ("fellow
> > > > >>> countryman")See the University of Wales Dictionary, vol. II, p.
> > > > >>> 1485, "Gomeriad". The editors note the false etymology that was
> > > > >>> proposed briefly in the 18th century (nothing ancient about it), as
> > > > >>> a local equivalent of the (inherently racist) British Israelite
> > > > >>> movement. See also on the background of this made up etymology
> > > > >>> Piggot, The Druids Thames and Hudson:London pp. 132 and 172.
>
> > > > >> I recall that ASI in one of his alternate identities some time ago
> > > > >> fell for another British Israelite claim in one of his rants about
> > > > >> "ancient documents". I'm too lazy to look this up but it was
> > > > >> similarly debunked.
>
> > > > >> He is 100% gullible when it comes to things like this.
>
> > > > >>>> Other members of their clan settled along the way, including in
> > > > >>>> Togarmah (Genesis 10:3). Encyclopaedia Britannica says that the
> > > > >>>> Armenians traditionally claim to be descended from Togarmah and
> > > > >>>> Ashkenaz.3 Ancient Armenia reached into Turkey. The name Turkey
> > > > >>>> probably comes from Togarmah. Others of them migrated to Germany.
> > > > >>>> Ashkenaz is the Hebrew word for Germany.
>
> > > > >>>> The descendants of Ham live mainly in south-west Asia and Africa.
> > > > >>>> The Bible often refers to Africa as the land of Ham (Psalms
> > > > >>>> word for old Ethiopia (from Aswan south to Khartoum). Without
> > > > >>>> exception, the word Ethiopia in the English Bible is always a
> > > > >>>> translation of the Hebrew word Cush. Josephus rendered the name as
> > > > >>>> themselves and by all men in Asia, called Chusites .9
>
> > > > >>>> Noah s next grandson mentioned was Mizraim. Mizraim is the Hebrew
> > > > >>>> word for Egypt. The name Egypt appears hundreds of times in the Old
> > > > >>>> Testament and (with one exception) is always a translation of the
> > > > >>>> word Mizraim. E.g. at the burial of Jacob, the Canaanites observed
> > > > >>>> the mourning of the Egyptians and so called the place Abel Mizraim
> > > > >>>> (Genesis 50:11).
>
> > > > >>>> Libya. It is so translated three times in the Old Testament. The
> > > > >>>> been changed to Libya (Daniel 11:43). Josephus says, Phut also
> > > > >>>> was the founder of Libia [sic], and called the inhabitants
>
> > > > >>>> Canaan, the name of Noah s next grandson, is the Hebrew name for
> > > > >>>> the general region later called by the Romans Palestine, i.e.
> > > > >>>> modern Israel and Jordan. Here we should look briefly at a few of
> > > > >>>> obviously the ancestor of the Philistines (clearly giving rise to
> > > > >>>> the name Palestine), and Sidon, the founder of the ancient city
> > > > >>>> that bears his name, and Heth, the patriarch of the ancient
> > > > >>>> Hittite empire. Also, this descendant is listed in Genesis
> > > > >>>> ancient name for Jerusalem Judges 19:10), the Amorites, the
> > > > >>>> Girgasites, the Hivites, the Arkites, the Sinites, the Arvadites,
> > > > >>>> the Zemarites, and the Hamathites, ancient peoples who lived in
> > > > >>>> the land of Canaan.
>
> > > > >>>> The most prominent descendant of Ham was Nimrod, the founder of
> > > > >>>> Babel (Babylon), as well as of Erech, Accad and Calneh in Shinar
> > > > >>>> (Babylonia).
>
> > > > >>>> [more]
> > > > >>>>http://creation.com/the-sixteen-grandsons-of-noah
>
> > > > >> --
> > > > >> Mike Dworetsky
>
> > > > >> (Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply)- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > > Once again you zero in on what //may// be a single discrepancy to
> > > > > discredit the entire body of work.(but you never seem to be able to
> > > > > address the rest of the subject matter no matter what the subject is).
> > > > > Are you being deliberitly dishonest? Too dumb to understand maybe?
>
> > > > > I'm glad you are not my doctor. You would want to cut of my hand if I
> > > > > has a scratch on my finger!
>
> > > > Drama Queen!
>
> > > > If I were your doctor and you came in with a scratch, I'd wonder why you
> > > > were bothering me with a triviality, and charge you double the usual fee
> > > > just for putting some antiseptic and a band-aid on it.
>
> > > > mythological person. He never built an ark to hold his family and all the
> > > > world's animals, and there was never a universal flood.
>
> > > > How do you know whether the later story tellers didn't actually use the
> > > > known names of distant peoples, and use them to make up the names of
> > > > countries, not the other way around.
>
> > > Impossible. Unless you think EVERYTHING written down about the past is
> > > just a lie to fool YOU all these years latter.-
>
> > And you are a gullible fool to swallow everything written down about
> > "not having proper perceptive abilities". After all, if *you* had the
> > "proper perceptive abilities", you would not have fallen for that
>
> > Boikat- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Those Dopra Stones have your panties in a Wad Boikitty.
>
> It's ok. Most understand that Ham was a real person. And so was his
> father, Noah.
>
> So it's OK for you to understand and accept that too.
No, ham is a food. Properly made ham is almost a food group into and
of itself.
Mark Evans
Burkhard
were using. There is a bit of debate about the precise etymology of
London. It is very possibly based on a (Welsh) Gaelic word, one
contender is Llyn din. A very good overview of the competing approaches
is here: Coates, Richard (1998). "A new explanation of the name of
London". Transactions of the Philological Society 96 (2): 203�229
I'm not entirely convinced about his solution - but _all_ proposals
cheat at one point in their derivation. (what we can safely rule out
though is any connection to Hebrew in general or Dan in particular)
Ye Old One
<allse...@usa.com> enriched this group when s/he wrote:
>On Dec 7, 8:42�am, Caranx latus <kar...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> On Dec 7, 8:20�am, All-Seeing-I <allseei...@usa.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Dec 7, 5:14�am, Eric Root <er...@swva.net> wrote:
>>
>> > > On Dec 7, 2:49�am, All-seeing-I <ap...@email.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > > The first of Noah s grandsons mentioned is Gomer. Ezekiel locates the
>> > > > early descendants of Gomer, along with Togarmah (a son of Gomer), in
>> > > > the north quarters (Ezekiel 38:6). In modern Turkey is an area which
>> > > > in New Testament times was called Galatia. The Jewish historian
>> > > > Flavius Josephus records that the people who were called Galatians or
>> > > > Gauls in his day (c. AD 93) were previously called Gomerites.1
>>
>> > > > They migrated westward to what are now called France and Spain. For
>> > > > many centuries France was called Gaul, after the descendants of Gomer.
>> > > > North-west Spain is called Galicia to this day.
>>
>> > > > Some of the Gomerites migrated further to what is now called Wales.
>> > > > The Welsh historian, Davis, records a traditional Welsh belief that
>> > > > the descendants of Gomer landed on the Isle of Britain from France,
>> > > > about three hundred years after the flood .2 He also records that the
>> > > > Welsh language is called Gomeraeg (after their ancestor Gomer).
>>
>> > > Interesting, but off-topic. �How about posting it to a religious
>> > > newsgroup?
>>
>> > > Eric Root
>>
>> > This has to do with ORIGINS, of language. Please go read the TO web
>> > site and you will find that this is directly on topic for this NG.
>>
>> From <http://www.ediacara.org/~to/charter.html>:
>> "The newsgroup talk.origins is meant as a venue for discussion of the
>> scientific, religious, and political issues pertaining to various
>> theories of the origins and development of life and the universe."
>>
>> The way I read that, it seems that the origins of language is
>> technically off-topic. But, please, don't let facts interfere with
>> your course of action.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>For the LAST TIME:
>
><QUOTE>
>Talk.origins ("t.o.") is a newsgroup devoted to the discussion of
>issues related to biological and physical origins. Topics discussed
>include, but are not limited to, evolution, creation, abiogenesis,
>catastrophism, cosmology, and theology. Be assured that you will find
>lively, often heated, exchanges between people of all persuasions.
>
>Much of the bandwidth of t.o. is used for discussion of the merits of
>various ideas about origins. Other types of posts, however, are
>welcome (and, in fact, refreshing!), particularly [MI]:
>
>�A scientific Theory of Creation
>�Personal experiences which have affected your attitudes on the
>subject
>�Relevant news, scientific and/or political
>�Anything original, entertaining, and/or downright brilliant :-)
>
>http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-welcome.html
><END QUOTE>
>
>1) This topic falls under "theology"
No, it falls under your stupidity.
>2) This topic falls under "creation"
No, it falls under your stupidity.
>3) This topic falls under " various ideas about origins".
>Specifically: Language
No, it falls under your stupidity.
>
>finally and most importantly, number 4) This topic falls under:
>"�Anything original, entertaining, and/or downright brilliant :-)"
No, it falls under your stupidity.
>
>Of which. ALL of my posts fall under number 4 <G>
No, they all fall under your stupidity.
Madman (aka Mudbrain) is on record as claiming:-
Science causes disease.
That 3.5% actually means 25%...
That the actor Paul Newman was a creationist...
That "Dr." Kent Hovind has made lots of *scientific* discoveries...
That wars have been fought because some scientific finding discredited
some facet of some religion...
To have a "higher education" than most posters to this news group...
To understand how geologists determine the age of any given sample of
rock...
That trilobites were Cambrian mammals... [that one still makes me
laugh]
And that he has "created genes" and not evolved ape genes...
That linguists have traced all the world's languages to the Middle
East region and back to around the same time as the bible claims Noah
and his sons rebuilt mankind.
Claimed that talk.origin's moderator was a troll.
Claimed cigarettes do not cause cancer.
Now, I ask you, is this the sort of guy you would give an credence to?
Certainly I don't.
--
Bob.
Boikat
> On Dec 7, 1:45 pm, Boikat <boi...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 7, 1:21 pm, All-Seeing-I <allseei...@usa.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 7, 10:02 am, "Mike Dworetsky"
>
> > > <platinum...@pants.btinternet.com> wrote:
> > > > All-Seeing-I wrote:
> > > > > On Dec 7, 4:24 am, "Mike Dworetsky" <platinum...@pants.btinternet.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >> Burkhard wrote:
> > > > >>> All-seeing-I wrote:
> > > > >>>> the early descendants of Gomer, along with Togarmah (a son of
> > > > >>>> Gomer), in the north quarters (Ezekiel 38:6). In modern Turkey is
> > > > >>>> an area which in New Testament times was called Galatia. The
> > > > >>>> Jewish historian Flavius Josephus records that the people who were
> > > > >>>> called Galatians or Gauls in his day (c. AD 93) were previously
> > > > >>>> called Gomerites.1
>
> > > > >>>> They migrated westward to what are now called France and Spain. For
> > > > >>>> many centuries France was called Gaul, after the descendants of
> > > > >>>> Gomer. North-west Spain is called Galicia to this day.
>
> > > > >>>> Some of the Gomerites migrated further to what is now called Wales.
> > > > >>>> The Welsh historian, Davis, records a traditional Welsh belief that
> > > > >>>> France, about three hundred years after the flood .2 He also
> > > > >>>> records that the Welsh language is called Gomeraeg (after their
> > > > >>>> ancestor Gomer).
>
> > > > >>> The name of the Welsh language is derived from Combrogos ("fellow
> > > > >>> countryman")See the University of Wales Dictionary, vol. II, p.
> > > > >>> 1485, "Gomeriad". The editors note the false etymology that was
> > > > >>> proposed briefly in the 18th century (nothing ancient about it), as
> > > > >>> a local equivalent of the (inherently racist) British Israelite
> > > > >>> movement. See also on the background of this made up etymology
> > > > >>> Piggot, The Druids Thames and Hudson:London pp. 132 and 172.
>
> > > > >> I recall that ASI in one of his alternate identities some time ago
> > > > >> fell for another British Israelite claim in one of his rants about
> > > > >> "ancient documents". I'm too lazy to look this up but it was
> > > > >> similarly debunked.
>
> > > > >> He is 100% gullible when it comes to things like this.
>
> > > > >>>> Other members of their clan settled along the way, including in
> > > > >>>> Armenians traditionally claim to be descended from Togarmah and
> > > > >>>> Ashkenaz.3 Ancient Armenia reached into Turkey. The name Turkey
> > > > >>>> probably comes from Togarmah. Others of them migrated to Germany.
> > > > >>>> Ashkenaz is the Hebrew word for Germany.
>
> > > > >>>> The descendants of Ham live mainly in south-west Asia and Africa.
> > > > >>>> The Bible often refers to Africa as the land of Ham (Psalms
> > > > >>>> word for old Ethiopia (from Aswan south to Khartoum). Without
> > > > >>>> exception, the word Ethiopia in the English Bible is always a
> > > > >>>> translation of the Hebrew word Cush. Josephus rendered the name as
> > > > >>>> themselves and by all men in Asia, called Chusites .9
>
> > > > >>>> Noah s next grandson mentioned was Mizraim. Mizraim is the Hebrew
> > > > >>>> word for Egypt. The name Egypt appears hundreds of times in the Old
> > > > >>>> Testament and (with one exception) is always a translation of the
> > > > >>>> word Mizraim. E.g. at the burial of Jacob, the Canaanites observed
> > > > >>>> the mourning of the Egyptians and so called the place Abel Mizraim
> > > > >>>> (Genesis 50:11).
>
> > > > >>>> Libya. It is so translated three times in the Old Testament. The
> > > > >>>> been changed to Libya (Daniel 11:43). Josephus says, Phut also
> > > > >>>> was the founder of Libia [sic], and called the inhabitants
>
> > > > >>>> Canaan, the name of Noah s next grandson, is the Hebrew name for
> > > > >>>> the general region later called by the Romans Palestine, i.e.
> > > > >>>> modern Israel and Jordan. Here we should look briefly at a few of
> > > > >>>> obviously the ancestor of the Philistines (clearly giving rise to
> > > > >>>> the name Palestine), and Sidon, the founder of the ancient city
> > > > >>>> that bears his name, and Heth, the patriarch of the ancient
> > > > >>>> Hittite empire. Also, this descendant is listed in Genesis
> > > > >>>> ancient name for Jerusalem Judges 19:10), the Amorites, the
> > > > >>>> Girgasites, the Hivites, the Arkites, the Sinites, the Arvadites,
> > > > >>>> the Zemarites, and the Hamathites, ancient peoples who lived in
> > > > >>>> the land of Canaan.
>
> > > > >>>> The most prominent descendant of Ham was Nimrod, the founder of
> > > > >>>> Babel (Babylon), as well as of Erech, Accad and Calneh in Shinar
> > > > >>>> (Babylonia).
>
> > > > >>>> [more]
> > > > >>>>http://creation.com/the-sixteen-grandsons-of-noah
>
> > > > >> --
> > > > >> Mike Dworetsky
>
> > > > >> (Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply)- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > > Once again you zero in on what //may// be a single discrepancy to
> > > > > discredit the entire body of work.(but you never seem to be able to
> > > > > address the rest of the subject matter no matter what the subject is).
> > > > > Are you being deliberitly dishonest? Too dumb to understand maybe?
>
> > > > > I'm glad you are not my doctor. You would want to cut of my hand if I
> > > > > has a scratch on my finger!
>
> > > > Drama Queen!
>
> > > > If I were your doctor and you came in with a scratch, I'd wonder why you
> > > > were bothering me with a triviality, and charge you double the usual fee
> > > > just for putting some antiseptic and a band-aid on it.
>
> > > > mythological person. He never built an ark to hold his family and all the
> > > > world's animals, and there was never a universal flood.
>
> > > > How do you know whether the later story tellers didn't actually use the
> > > > known names of distant peoples, and use them to make up the names of
> > > > countries, not the other way around.
>
> > > Impossible. Unless you think EVERYTHING written down about the past is
> > > just a lie to fool YOU all these years latter.-
>
> > And you are a gullible fool to swallow everything written down about
> > "not having proper perceptive abilities". After all, if *you* had the
> > "proper perceptive abilities", you would not have fallen for that
>
> > Boikat- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Those Dopra Stones have your panties in a Wad Boikitty.
Sorry, I don't wear panties (keep your personal sexual perversions to
yourself), and if I did, they would not be in a wad over your
gullibility and stupidity.
As to theDropa Stones farce, they sure have you suckered. But please,
by all means, present any reference you like, *primary references
only*, that support the existance of the "Dropa Stones" that can be
verified to predate "Chariots of the Gods".
>
> It's ok. Most understand that Ham was a real person.
Only those who swallow mythology as fact.
> And so was his father, Noah.
And I suppose you have some actual evidence to support that claim?
"Ancient texts" do not count any more than modern texts support the
existance of Kin Kong, so that squinkage will not work.
Besides that, in orer for Noah's existence to have any meaning, there
would have had to have been a Biblical flod, and sorry, there is no
evidence, and your bullcrap about the flood destroying the evidence of
it's occurance doesn't support the claim. No evidence of a flood
means there was no flood.
>
> So it's OK for you to understand and accept that too.-
I understand and accept that you are an idiot, and too intellectually
lazy to try to actually think. After all, it's easier to believe in
fairy tales, right?
Boikat
johnetho...@yahoo.com
> On Dec 7, 2:23 pm, Kermit <unrestrained_h...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 7, 11:41 am, All-Seeing-I <allseei...@usa.com> wrote:> > > > > The first of Noah s grandsons mentioned is Gomer. Ezekiel locates the
> > > > > early descendants of Gomer, along with Togarmah (a son of Gomer), in
> > > > > the north quarters (Ezekiel 38:6). In modern Turkey is an area which
> > > > > in New Testament times was called Galatia. The Jewish historian
> > > > > Flavius Josephus records that the people who were called Galatians or
> > > > > Gauls in his day (c. AD 93) were previously called Gomerites.1
>
> > > > > They migrated westward to what are now called France and Spain. For
> > > > > many centuries France was called Gaul, after the descendants of Gomer.
> > > > > North-west Spain is called Galicia to this day.
>
> > > > > Some of the Gomerites migrated further to what is now called Wales.
> > > > > The Welsh historian, Davis, records a traditional Welsh belief that
> > > > > about three hundred years after the flood .2 He also records that the
> > > > > Welsh language is called Gomeraeg (after their ancestor Gomer).
>
> > > > > Other members of their clan settled along the way, including in
> > > > > Armenians traditionally claim to be descended from Togarmah and
> > > > > Ashkenaz.3 Ancient Armenia reached into Turkey. The name Turkey
> > > > > probably comes from Togarmah. Others of them migrated to Germany.
> > > > > Ashkenaz is the Hebrew word for Germany.
>
> > > > > The descendants of Ham live mainly in south-west Asia and Africa. The
> > > > > Bible often refers to Africa as the land of Ham (Psalms 105:23,27;
> > > > > Ethiopia (from Aswan south to Khartoum). Without exception, the word
> > > > > Ethiopia in the English Bible is always a translation of the Hebrew
> > > > > word Cush. Josephus rendered the name as Chus, and says that the
> > > > > Asia, called Chusites .9
>
> > > > > Noah s next grandson mentioned was Mizraim. Mizraim is the Hebrew word
> > > > > for Egypt. The name Egypt appears hundreds of times in the Old
> > > > > Testament and (with one exception) is always a translation of the word
> > > > > Mizraim. E.g. at the burial of Jacob, the Canaanites observed the
> > > > > mourning of the Egyptians and so called the place Abel Mizraim
> > > > > (Genesis 50:11).
>
> > > > > It is so translated three times in the Old Testament. The ancient
> > > > > Libya (Daniel 11:43). Josephus says, Phut also was the founder of
> > > > > Libia [sic], and called the inhabitants Phutites, from himself .9
>
> > > > > Canaan, the name of Noah s next grandson, is the Hebrew name for the
> > > > > general region later called by the Romans Palestine, i.e. modern
> > > > > Israel and Jordan. Here we should look briefly at a few of the
> > > > > the ancestor of the Philistines (clearly giving rise to the name
> > > > > Palestine), and Sidon, the founder of the ancient city that bears his
> > > > > name, and Heth, the patriarch of the ancient Hittite empire. Also,
> > > > > the Jebusites (Jebus was the ancient name for Jerusalem Judges 19:10),
Translation: My lies and bullshit have once again been exposed for
what they are. Since I can't defend anything I say with either facts
or logic I'll fall back on insults.
Burkhard
dichotomy is false.
Bruce Stephens
> On Dec 7, 1:41 pm, "Dan Listermann" <d...@listermann.com> wrote:
>> "All-Seeing-I" <allseei...@usa.com> wrote in message
[...]
>> > Impossible. Unless you think EVERYTHING written down about the past is
>> > just a lie to fool YOU all these years latter.
>>
>> False dichotomy.
>
> evidence?
Isn't it obviously a false dichotomy?
Free Lunch
wrote in talk.origins:
>On Dec 7, 2:32�pm, "Dan Listermann" <d...@listermann.com> wrote:
>> "All-Seeing-I" <allseei...@usa.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:2bb8bb93-153b-496d...@z35g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > Why won't you accept "Textual Evidence"? The same type of textual
>> > evidence that is allowed by governments and courts of law? They seem
>> > to think textual evidence is valid.
>>
>> > Why don't you think textual evidence is so unimportant?
>>
>> Aren't you awfully picky about what "textual evidence" you are willing to
>> swallow?
>>
>> .
>Sure.
>
>But after comparison and investigation some txts are simply relegated
>to stupidity,
And those are the ones you choose to worship.
>but some become actual evidence of events that may have
>taken place from corroboration and correlation.
Those are the ones you reject.
Boikat
> On Dec 7, 8:54�am, Boikat <boi...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 7, 1:49�am, All-seeing-I <ap...@email.com> wrote:
>
> > > The first of Noah s grandsons mentioned is Gomer
>
> > <snip>
>
> > Well, GoooOOoollllly and Shazam!
>
> > You're a sucker for anything, as long as it is anti-mainstream
> > science, aren't you?
>
> > Boikat
>
> Mainstream science has lost it's way Boikitty.
No, it hasn't, Mr. Cambrian mammal = Trilobite.
> Primarily due to people
> such as your self. Science is the exploratation of everything no
> matter how seemingly impossible.
Only within the confines of reality.
> Science is an intelligence that
> indeed goes way, way, beyond your ability to understand.
This from the twit that said it was easier to believe in "Goddidit"
that to bother with all that "science stuff."
>
> Science use to be quite a nobel profession; One to be admired. People
> that think like you think however, have ruined science.
Why? Because I don't swallow the bullshit fall for?
>
> I'm here to edcuate you on what science is all about Boikitty.
You don't know the first thing about science, you ignorant twit.
You've demonstrated that in virtually every one of your posts. I've
shot turds out my ass that know more science than you can even vaguely
grasp with our bronze age, goat herder mentality.
>
> Science is about posibilties and not about conforming to your ridged
> thinking..
Science is about understanding reality. That is how science dispelled
many of the Biblical claims you seem to cling to, such as a young
"created" Earth and the Biblical flood. But you are right about one
thing: The "rigid thinking", the *discipline* of doing *real science*
is maintaining a rigid frame of reference, known as *reality*. If it
didn't, it would be virtually useless.
I know that, as you say, "puts your panties in a wad", but there it
is. GTFU, Monnnkeey-boy.
Boikat
sasam2
> On Sun, 6 Dec 2009 23:49:10 -0800 (PST), All-seeing-I
> <ap...@email.com> enriched this group when s/he wrote:
>
> >The first of Noah s grandsons
>
This may be, but then legends seem to be built on some sort of fact
and persona.
It takes little for some to deny previous existence of some
individuals. Take for example Zarathustra, Homer and Pythagoras. The
Baconists even venture to deny Shakespeare as a single person. Now
these immediately turn into minimalists as soon as non-archaelogically
corroborated biblical characters are mentioned.
Sam
John Harshman
> On Dec 7, 9:04 am, John Harshman <jharsh...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>> All-seeing-I wrote:
>>> early descendants of Gomer, along with Togarmah (a son of Gomer), in
>>> the north quarters (Ezekiel 38:6). In modern Turkey is an area which
>>> in New Testament times was called Galatia. The Jewish historian
>>> Flavius Josephus records that the people who were called Galatians or
>>> Gauls in his day (c. AD 93) were previously called Gomerites.1
>>> They migrated westward to what are now called France and Spain. For
>>> many centuries France was called Gaul, after the descendants of Gomer.
>>> North-west Spain is called Galicia to this day.
>>> Some of the Gomerites migrated further to what is now called Wales.
>>> The Welsh historian, Davis, records a traditional Welsh belief that
>>> about three hundred years after the flood�.2 He also records that the
>>> Welsh language is called Gomeraeg (after their ancestor Gomer).
>>> Other members of their clan settled along the way, including in
>>> Armenians traditionally claim to be descended from Togarmah and
>>> Ashkenaz.3 Ancient Armenia reached into Turkey. The name Turkey
>>> probably comes from Togarmah. Others of them migrated to Germany.
>>> Ashkenaz is the Hebrew word for Germany.
>>> The descendants of Ham live mainly in south-west Asia and Africa. The
>>> Bible often refers to Africa as the land of Ham (Psalms 105:23,27;
>>> Ethiopia (from Aswan south to Khartoum). Without exception, the word
>>> Ethiopia in the English Bible is always a translation of the Hebrew
>>> word Cush. Josephus rendered the name as Chus, and says that the
>>> Asia, called Chusites�.9
>>> Noah�s next grandson mentioned was Mizraim. Mizraim is the Hebrew word
>>> for Egypt. The name Egypt appears hundreds of times in the Old
>>> Testament and (with one exception) is always a translation of the word
>>> Mizraim. E.g. at the burial of Jacob, the Canaanites observed the
>>> mourning of the Egyptians and so called the place Abel Mizraim
>>> (Genesis 50:11).
>>> It is so translated three times in the Old Testament. The ancient
>>> Libya (Daniel 11:43). Josephus says, �Phut also was the founder of
>>> Libia [sic], and called the inhabitants Phutites, from himself�.9
>>> Canaan, the name of Noah�s next grandson, is the Hebrew name for the
>>> general region later called by the Romans Palestine, i.e. modern
>>> Israel and Jordan. Here we should look briefly at a few of the
>>> the ancestor of the Philistines (clearly giving rise to the name
>>> Palestine), and Sidon, the founder of the ancient city that bears his
>>> name, and Heth, the patriarch of the ancient Hittite empire. Also,
>>> the Jebusites (Jebus was the ancient name for Jerusalem�Judges 19:10),
>>> the Amorites, the Girgasites, the Hivites, the Arkites, the Sinites,
>>> the Arvadites, the Zemarites, and the Hamathites, ancient peoples who
>>> lived in the land of Canaan.
>>> The most prominent descendant of Ham was Nimrod, the founder of Babel
>>> (Babylon), as well as of Erech, Accad and Calneh in Shinar
>>> (Babylonia).
>>> [more]
>>> http://creation.com/the-sixteen-grandsons-of-noah
>> Nice. Is there any evidence for any of this, other than that the bible
>> claims it? No? Isn't it interesting that the bible makes no claim about
>> the ancestry of the most population nation on earth, which has been so
>> through most of recorded history? (China, in case you have no clue.)
>> Isn't it odd that the bible makes no mention of the ancestry of the
>> peoples of the entire New World? Curiously, in fact, it seems to mention
>> only peoples that the ancient Hebrews knew about. Very odd for a history
>> that claims to describe the peopling of the entire world.
>
> evidence that is allowed by governments and courts of law? They seem
> to think textual evidence is valid.
I doubt it. Can you cite a court case in which biblical evidence was
accepted as dispositive?
> Why don't you think textual evidence is so unimportant?
You need at least one less negative there. Because it isn't evidence.
It's a story. A legend. Some legends may have bits of truth in them.
(For example, the character of Etzel in the Nibelungenlied is the
historical Attila.) But the only way to know that is to find empirical
evidence independently of the story.
>> And your connection of Gomer to the Celts is extraordinarily silly.
> Your reasons?
Because your method is to believe anything that fits your conclusion, no
matter how unsupported it may be, and to disbelieve anything that
doesn't. A filter like that is not a good guide to truth, only to what
you want to believe. Does Josephus really say that the Galatians were
once called Gomerites? Show me the passage. How did Josephus know that?
The rest is chance resemblance, folk etymologies that are demonstrably
wrong.
And you didn't answer a single one of my questions, as usual.
John Harshman
What corroboration? What correlation? You believe anything you are told,
if it agrees with your prior views. You have on several occasions
presented April Fool's jokes from the web in support of your views, for
example. Your credibility isn't very good.
John Harshman
> On Dec 7, 2:23 pm, Kermit <unrestrained_h...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Dec 7, 11:41 am, All-Seeing-I <allseei...@usa.com> wrote:
Sounds like a good list to me.
>>>> And your connection of Gomer to the Celts is extraordinarily silly.- Hide quoted text
>>> Your reasons?
>> Kermit- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Kermit, youe skeptical nature borders on mental illness at times, or
> you just LIKE trying to get under my skin...
>
> I vote both. You like to get under my skin with your skeptical nature
> that borders on mental illness.
As usual, when pressed you retreat to insults and accusations, without
responding to the content of the post. Are you at all ashamed of this
behavior?
John Harshman
> On Dec 7, 12:07 pm, Ye Old One <use...@mcsuk.net> wrote:
>> On Sun, 6 Dec 2009 23:49:10 -0800 (PST), All-seeing-I
>> <ap...@email.com> enriched this group when s/he wrote:
>>
>>> The first of Noah s grandsons
>> Noah is a fictional character.
>
> This may be, but then legends seem to be built on some sort of fact
> and persona.
Some of them. All of them?
> It takes little for some to deny previous existence of some
> individuals. Take for example Zarathustra, Homer and Pythagoras. The
> Baconists even venture to deny Shakespeare as a single person.
Not quite. They admit he was a person. They just don't think he wrote
the plays.
> Now
> these immediately turn into minimalists as soon as non-archaelogically
> corroborated biblical characters are mentioned.
Jesus of Nazareth, for example?
Dan Listermann
"All-seeing-I" <ap...@email.com> wrote in message
news:c73046e1-2cbe-4b37...@y32g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
.
Dan Listermann
Good, you can see that scriptual teexts are largely merely legends, right?
OR It is only a coincidence that the "real" texts, are ones your culture
told you were real, right?
.
Burkhard
> sasam2 wrote:
>> On Dec 7, 12:07 pm, Ye Old One <use...@mcsuk.net> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 6 Dec 2009 23:49:10 -0800 (PST), All-seeing-I
>>> <ap...@email.com> enriched this group when s/he wrote:
>>>
>>>> The first of Noah s grandsons
>>> Noah is a fictional character.
>>
>> This may be, but then legends seem to be built on some sort of fact
>> and persona.
>
> Some of them. All of them?
>
>> It takes little for some to deny previous existence of some
>> individuals. Take for example Zarathustra, Homer and Pythagoras. The
>> Baconists even venture to deny Shakespeare as a single person.
>
> Not quite. They admit he was a person. They just don't think he wrote
> the plays.
Yes and no. There is a Baconian splinter group that says they are the
works of a group of people of which Bacon and de Vere were members - an
early days Bourbaki.
John Harshman
> John Harshman wrote:
>> sasam2 wrote:
>>> On Dec 7, 12:07 pm, Ye Old One <use...@mcsuk.net> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 6 Dec 2009 23:49:10 -0800 (PST), All-seeing-I
>>>> <ap...@email.com> enriched this group when s/he wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The first of Noah s grandsons
>>>> Noah is a fictional character.
>>>
>>> This may be, but then legends seem to be built on some sort of fact
>>> and persona.
>>
>> Some of them. All of them?
>>
>>> It takes little for some to deny previous existence of some
>>> individuals. Take for example Zarathustra, Homer and Pythagoras. The
>>> Baconists even venture to deny Shakespeare as a single person.
>>
>> Not quite. They admit he was a person. They just don't think he wrote
>> the plays.
>
> Yes and no. There is a Baconian splinter group that says they are the
> works of a group of people of which Bacon and de Vere were members - an
> early days Bourbaki.
But do they deny that there was a person named William Shakespeare (or
variant spelling thereof) who was an actor and stockholder in the Globe
and in a theater company, and who left his second-best bed to his wife
in his will?
Otherwise, it's yes and yes.
haiku jones
And somehow -- WHOOSH -- in the course of the very
few thousand years the Bible allows, these eight
Semitic types became Swedes and Zulus and
Japanese and Watutsi and Pygmies and Vikings
and Australian Aboriginies and Icelanders and
Maori and Chinese and Terra del Fuegians.
How do you think that happened?
Haiku Jones
Burkhard
> Burkhard wrote:
>> John Harshman wrote:
>>> sasam2 wrote:
>>>> On Dec 7, 12:07 pm, Ye Old One <use...@mcsuk.net> wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 6 Dec 2009 23:49:10 -0800 (PST), All-seeing-I
>>>>> <ap...@email.com> enriched this group when s/he wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The first of Noah s grandsons
>>>>> Noah is a fictional character.
>>>>
>>>> This may be, but then legends seem to be built on some sort of fact
>>>> and persona.
>>>
>>> Some of them. All of them?
>>>
>>>> It takes little for some to deny previous existence of some
>>>> individuals. Take for example Zarathustra, Homer and Pythagoras. The
>>>> Baconists even venture to deny Shakespeare as a single person.
>>>
>>> Not quite. They admit he was a person. They just don't think he wrote
>>> the plays.
>>
>> Yes and no. There is a Baconian splinter group that says they are the
>> works of a group of people of which Bacon and de Vere were members -
>> an early days Bourbaki.
>
> But do they deny that there was a person named William Shakespeare (or
> variant spelling thereof) who was an actor and stockholder in the Globe
> and in a theater company, and who left his second-best bed to his wife
> in his will?
They come in two flavours too. One group doesn't care, so they probably
would at least not deny the existence of such a person. But there is
also the theory that the name itself is a pseudonym, typically
deciphered as an allusion to Athena who sprang into life "shaking a
spear". In the group theory, that then becomes the name of the
collective, and hence, they would say that "Shakespeare was the author
of Hamlet" is true, but that there was no (single) person called
Shakespeare.
sasam2
> > Now
> > these immediately turn into minimalists as soon as non-archaelogically
> > corroborated biblical characters are mentioned.
>
> Jesus of Nazareth, for example?
A common man in the eyes of the Romans during his time. Not worth
making a fuss about surely - at least not until later when a teaching
evolved around him.
Now I am curious as to why some people would want to go to such
lengths to deny the possibility of his existence. Surely a mob tends
to rather gather around a charismatic person voicing an idea than
around the idea itself. Now you may deny the supernatural assertions,
but why deny the person?
I think there will be less evidence and memory of your and my own
existence in a 100 years or so.
Sam
John Harshman
How would they account for the historical record of his existence, which
though meager, is still there. As, for example, the aforementioned will.
Did a committee draw it up? Did a committe leave their second best bed
to their widow?
John Harshman
> On Dec 8, 12:04 am, John Harshman <jharsh...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>>> Now
>>> these immediately turn into minimalists as soon as non-archaelogically
>>> corroborated biblical characters are mentioned.
>> Jesus of Nazareth, for example?
>
> A common man in the eyes of the Romans during his time. Not worth
> making a fuss about surely - at least not until later when a teaching
> evolved around him.
>
> Now I am curious as to why some people would want to go to such
> lengths to deny the possibility of his existence. Surely a mob tends
> to rather gather around a charismatic person voicing an idea than
> around the idea itself. Now you may deny the supernatural assertions,
> but why deny the person?
What people deny the possibility of his existence? The point is merely
that the evidence for his existence is not particularly strong.
> I think there will be less evidence and memory of your and my own
> existence in a 100 years or so.
Don't know about you, but unless civilization collapses there will be a
reasonably good record of my existence, just as we know of every obscure
biologist who published in any random journal 100 years ago.
Free Lunch
wrote in talk.origins:
It seems to me that most of the people who deny that Jesus existed are
saying that the character portrayed in the gospels did not exist,
whether or not an itinerant teacher of that name happened to be
wandering around at the time. The Jesus found in the gospels isn't
likely to reflect the person or people who the character was built on
any more than Heracles reflected his possible human counterpart(s).
Ye Old One
enriched this group when s/he wrote:
>On Dec 7, 12:07�pm, Ye Old One <use...@mcsuk.net> wrote:
>> On Sun, 6 Dec 2009 23:49:10 -0800 (PST), All-seeing-I
>> <ap...@email.com> enriched this group when s/he wrote:
>>
>> >The first of Noah s grandsons
>>
>> Noah is a fictional character.
>
>This may be, but then legends seem to be built on some sort of fact
>and persona.
No doubt.
However the biblical story was plagiarized from a much older story
with its origins among the peoples of ancient Mesopotamia, in
particular the epic Gilgamesh - though there were almost certainly
many others which have not survived.
So, yes, there were almost certainly floods, with very big ones about
8,000 years ago when the North American ice sheet melted and raised
sea levels by up to six feet in a fairly short period. In the
Mediterranean and Black Sea alone shore lines change so dramatically
that many thousands of square miles of land were lost to habitation.
>
>It takes little for some to deny previous existence of some
>individuals. Take for example Zarathustra, Homer and Pythagoras. The
>Baconists even venture to deny Shakespeare as a single person. Now
>these immediately turn into minimalists as soon as non-archaelogically
>corroborated biblical characters are mentioned.
I think that by the time you get to the later parts of the OT many
stories are based on real people, but without the stories themselves
being real.
Shakespeare was a real person. Were all the play attributed to him all
his own work? Maybe not. But nobody is claiming he had supernatural
powers.
>
>Sam
>
--
Bob.
Theists think all gods but theirs are false. Atheists simply don't
make an exception for the last one.
Ye Old One
enriched this group when s/he wrote:
>London". Transactions of the Philological Society 96 (2): 203�229
>
>I'm not entirely convinced about his solution - but _all_ proposals
>cheat at one point in their derivation. (what we can safely rule out
>though is any connection to Hebrew in general or Dan in particular)
Very true, and as a result Mudbrain and Dishonest Ray were, as usual,
shot down in flames.
--
Bob.
The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the
day they start making vacuum cleaners.
Burkhard
test case for AI approaches to reasoning with evidence, and hence did a
bit of reading, but not that much.
My recollection is that they simply don't care - this "other"
Shakespeare may or may not have existed, but that would have been mere
coincidence - after all, when we ask: did Jesus, Alexander etc exist, we
are also not overly worried that of course, there is a football player
called Jesus who most certainly exists, and lots and lots of Alexanders.
Ye Old One
<ap...@email.com> enriched this group when s/he wrote:
>On Dec 7, 1:45�pm, Boikat <boi...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> On Dec 7, 1:21�pm, All-Seeing-I <allseei...@usa.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Dec 7, 10:02�am, "Mike Dworetsky"
>>
>> > <platinum...@pants.btinternet.com> wrote:
>> > > All-Seeing-I wrote:
>> > > > On Dec 7, 4:24 am, "Mike Dworetsky" <platinum...@pants.btinternet.com>
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > >> Burkhard wrote:
>> > > >>> All-seeing-I wrote:
>> > > >>>> The first of Noah�s grandsons mentioned is Gomer. Ezekiel locates
>> > > >>>> Other members of their clan settled along the way, including in
>> > > >>>> Armenia. The sons of Gomer were �Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and
>> > > >>>> Togarmah� (Genesis 10:3). Encyclopaedia Britannica says that the
>> > > >>>> Armenians traditionally claim to be descended from Togarmah and
>> > > >>>> Ashkenaz.3 Ancient Armenia reached into Turkey. The name Turkey
>> > > >>>> probably comes from Togarmah. Others of them migrated to Germany.
>> > > >>>> Ashkenaz is the Hebrew word for Germany.
>>
>> > > >>>> The descendants of Ham live mainly in south-west Asia and Africa.
>> > > >>>> The Bible often refers to Africa as the land of Ham (Psalms
>> > > >>>> 105:23,27; 106:22). The name of Noah�s grandson Cush is the Hebrew
>> > > >>>> word for old Ethiopia (from Aswan south to Khartoum). Without
>> > > >>>> exception, the word Ethiopia in the English Bible is always a
>> > > >>>> translation of the Hebrew word Cush. Josephus rendered the name as
>> > > >>>> Chus, and says that the Ethiopians �are even at this day, both by
>> > > >>>> themselves and by all men in Asia, called Chusites�.9
>>
>> > > >>>> Noah�s next grandson mentioned was Mizraim. Mizraim is the Hebrew
>> > > >>>> word for Egypt. The name Egypt appears hundreds of times in the Old
>> > > >>>> Testament and (with one exception) is always a translation of the
>> > > >>>> word Mizraim. E.g. at the burial of Jacob, the Canaanites observed
>> > > >>>> the mourning of the Egyptians and so called the place Abel Mizraim
>> > > >>>> (Genesis 50:11).
>>
>> > > >>>> Phut, the name of Noah�s next grandson is the Hebrew name for
>> > > >>>> Libya. It is so translated three times in the Old Testament. The
>> > > >>>> ancient river Phut was in Libya. By Daniel�s day, the name had
>> > > >>>> been changed to Libya (Daniel 11:43). Josephus says, �Phut also
>> > > >>>> was the founder of Libia [sic], and called the inhabitants
>> > > >>>> Phutites, from himself�.9
>>
>> > > >>>> Canaan, the name of Noah�s next grandson, is the Hebrew name for
>> > > >>>> the general region later called by the Romans Palestine, i.e.
>> > > >>>> modern Israel and Jordan. Here we should look briefly at a few of
>> > > >>>> the descendants of Ham (Genesis 10:14�18). There is Philistim,
>> > > >>>> obviously the ancestor of the Philistines (clearly giving rise to
>> > > >>>> the name Palestine), and Sidon, the founder of the ancient city
>> > > >>>> that bears his name, and Heth, the patriarch of the ancient
>> > > >>>> Hittite empire. Also, this descendant is listed in Genesis
>> > > >>>> 10:15�18 as being the ancestor of the Jebusites (Jebus was the
>> > > >>>> ancient name for Jerusalem�Judges 19:10), the Amorites, the
>> > > >>>> Girgasites, the Hivites, the Arkites, the Sinites, the Arvadites,
>> > > >>>> the Zemarites, and the Hamathites, ancient peoples who lived in
>> > > >>>> the land of Canaan.
>>
>> > > >>>> The most prominent descendant of Ham was Nimrod, the founder of
>> > > >>>> Babel (Babylon), as well as of Erech, Accad and Calneh in Shinar
>> > > >>>> (Babylonia).
>>
>> > > >>>> [more]
>> > > >>>>http://creation.com/the-sixteen-grandsons-of-noah
>>
>> > > >> --
>> > > >> Mike Dworetsky
>>
>> > > >> (Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply)- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > > >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > > >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> > > > Once again you zero in on what //may// be a single discrepancy to
>> > > > discredit the entire body of work.(but you never seem to be able to
>> > > > address the rest of the subject matter no matter what the subject is).
>> > > > Are you being deliberitly dishonest? Too dumb to understand maybe?
>>
>> > > > I'm glad you are not my doctor. You would want to cut of my hand if I
>> > > > has a scratch on my finger!
>>
>> > > Drama Queen!
>>
>> > > If I were your doctor and you came in with a scratch, I'd wonder why you
>> > > were bothering me with a triviality, and charge you double the usual fee
>> > > just for putting some antiseptic and a band-aid on it.
>>
>> > > The unreliable information is central to your claims. �Noah was a
>> > > mythological person. �He never built an ark to hold his family and all the
>> > > world's animals, and there was never a universal flood.
>>
>> > > How do you know whether the later story tellers didn't actually use the
>> > > known names of distant peoples, and use them to make up the names of
>> > > "Noah's" sons? �Just the opposite of your claim--the sons are named for the
>> > > countries, not the other way around.
>>
>> > Impossible. Unless you think EVERYTHING written down about the past is
>> > just a lie to fool YOU all these years latter.-
>>
>> And you are a gullible fool to swallow everything written down about
>> the past as "The Truth"(tm). �And don't give me that *bullshit* about
>> "not having proper perceptive abilities". �After all, if *you* had the
>> "proper perceptive abilities", you would not have fallen for that
>> "Dropa Stones" bullshit. �How does it feel to be duped?
>>
>> Boikat- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>Those Dopra Stones have your panties in a Wad Boikitty.
Rubbish.
>
>It's ok. Most understand that Ham was a real person.
Rubbish.
> And so was his
>father, Noah.
More rubbish.
>
>So it's OK for you to understand and accept that too.
Madman (aka Mudbrain) is on record as claiming:-
Burkhard
cleaning any time soon, don't bother to give him a call.
Kermit
> On Dec 7, 2:23�pm, Kermit <unrestrained_h...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 7, 11:41�am, All-Seeing-I <allseei...@usa.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 7, 9:04�am, John Harshman <jharsh...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> > > > All-seeing-I wrote:
> > > > > early descendants of Gomer, along with Togarmah (a son of Gomer), in
> > > > > the north quarters (Ezekiel 38:6). In modern Turkey is an area which
> > > > > in New Testament times was called Galatia. The Jewish historian
> > > > > Flavius Josephus records that the people who were called Galatians or
> > > > > Gauls in his day (c. AD 93) were previously called Gomerites.1
>
> > > > > They migrated westward to what are now called France and Spain. For
> > > > > many centuries France was called Gaul, after the descendants of Gomer.
> > > > > North-west Spain is called Galicia to this day.
>
> > > > > Some of the Gomerites migrated further to what is now called Wales.
> > > > > The Welsh historian, Davis, records a traditional Welsh belief that
> > > > > about three hundred years after the flood�.2 He also records that the
> > > > > Welsh language is called Gomeraeg (after their ancestor Gomer).
>
> > > > > Armenians traditionally claim to be descended from Togarmah and
> > > > > Ashkenaz.3 Ancient Armenia reached into Turkey. The name Turkey
> > > > > probably comes from Togarmah. Others of them migrated to Germany.
> > > > > Ashkenaz is the Hebrew word for Germany.
>
> > > > > The descendants of Ham live mainly in south-west Asia and Africa. The
> > > > > Bible often refers to Africa as the land of Ham (Psalms 105:23,27;
> > > > > Ethiopia (from Aswan south to Khartoum). Without exception, the word
> > > > > Ethiopia in the English Bible is always a translation of the Hebrew
> > > > > word Cush. Josephus rendered the name as Chus, and says that the
> > > > > Asia, called Chusites�.9
>
> > > > > Noah�s next grandson mentioned was Mizraim. Mizraim is the Hebrew word
> > > > > for Egypt. The name Egypt appears hundreds of times in the Old
> > > > > Testament and (with one exception) is always a translation of the word
> > > > > Mizraim. E.g. at the burial of Jacob, the Canaanites observed the
> > > > > mourning of the Egyptians and so called the place Abel Mizraim
> > > > > (Genesis 50:11).
>
> > > > > It is so translated three times in the Old Testament. The ancient
> > > > > Libya (Daniel 11:43). Josephus says, �Phut also was the founder of
> > > > > Libia [sic], and called the inhabitants Phutites, from himself�.9
>
> > > > > Canaan, the name of Noah�s next grandson, is the Hebrew name for the
> > > > > general region later called by the Romans Palestine, i.e. modern
> > > > > Israel and Jordan. Here we should look briefly at a few of the
> > > > > the ancestor of the Philistines (clearly giving rise to the name
> > > > > Palestine), and Sidon, the founder of the ancient city that bears his
> > > > > name, and Heth, the patriarch of the ancient Hittite empire. Also,
> > > > > the Jebusites (Jebus was the ancient name for Jerusalem�Judges 19:10),
> > > > > the Amorites, the Girgasites, the Hivites, the Arkites, the Sinites,
> > > > > the Arvadites, the Zemarites, and the Hamathites, ancient peoples who
> > > > > lived in the land of Canaan.
>
> > > > > The most prominent descendant of Ham was Nimrod, the founder of Babel
> > > > > (Babylon), as well as of Erech, Accad and Calneh in Shinar
> > > > > (Babylonia).
>
> > > > > [more]
> > > > >http://creation.com/the-sixteen-grandsons-of-noah
>
> > > > claims it? No? Isn't it interesting that the bible makes no claim about
> > > > the ancestry of the most population nation on earth, which has been so
> > > > through most of recorded history? (China, in case you have no clue.)
> > > > Isn't it odd that the bible makes no mention of the ancestry of the
> > > > peoples of the entire New World? Curiously, in fact, it seems to mention
> > > > only peoples that the ancient Hebrews knew about. Very odd for a history
> > > > that claims to describe the peopling of the entire world.
>
> > > evidence that is allowed by governments and courts of law? They seem
> > > to think textual evidence is valid.
>
> > it, possibly that it was signed. A fantasy novel, for instance, might
> > be used as evidence in a civil suit based on copyright law. It would
> > *not be considered evidence that the *content of the document is true.
>
> > Document might be records of accounting practices, or inventory.
> > Something like a diary would be taken with a *big grain of salt. All
> > sorts of things get written in diaries.
>
>
> > works.
> > Two: many of the claims are refuted by facts.
> > Three: like today, people write and say thing for a variety of
> > reasons, often mixing them, and often getting things wrong. There si
> > no support to believe your absurd claim that ancient peolpe never lied
> > and never got anything wrong.
> > Four: Mythology especially is a sort of Rorschach ink blot. Your
> > peculiar interpretations have no scholastic or evidential support. You
> > read what you want to see into it, then declare your interpretations
> > to be infallible. This is unpersuasive.
>
>
> > > Your reasons?
>
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> you just LIKE trying to get under my skin...
>
Those are not mutually exclusive...
> I vote both. You like to get under my skin with your skeptical nature
> that borders on mental illness.
>
Yup. Me and the other wacky folks here at the home for the
Persistently Rational.
> :-)
So, you don't have any answers. That's OK, I didn't expect any.
The last question up there in the long list is the most important one.
An omnipotent god could, of course, do anything by definition. But
*why would he cover his tracks? Why kill all the unrighteous, then
hide the evidence with dozens of miracles as big as the flood itself?
If he just wanted to kill the unrighteous, he could have sent a virus.
Then we skeptics would have far fewer annoying questions to ask.
Kermit
Baron Bodissey
<snip>
>
> I'm here to edcuate you on what science is all about Boikitty.
>
Please list your qualifications to decide what science is and what it
isn't. Do you have any degrees in any science? Have you ever taken a
college-level science class? Did you pass it? Did you even have any
high school science classes? Did you pass them?
Have you ever taken spelling? Did you pass it?
> Science is about posibilties and not about conforming to your ridged
> thinking.
Baron Bodissey
Every man takes the limits of his own field of vision for the limits
of the world.
� Arthur Schopenhauer
Burkhard
>>
>> I'm not entirely convinced about his solution - but _all_ proposals
>> cheat at one point in their derivation. (what we can safely rule out
>> though is any connection to Hebrew in general or Dan in particular)
>
> Very true, and as a result Mudbrain and Dishonest Ray were, as usual,
> shot down in flames.
>
>
similarity is not sufficient to show common etymology. Languages follow
clear rules of morphological and phonological change of varying degree
of universality, and to show that a word from one language ended up in a
specific spelling in another requires to show how that transformation
can have taken place while abiding by these rules. Mind you, that only
shows that such a derivation is at least _possible_, not that it is what
really happened, but they fail to do even that.
What is quite funny about this is of course that when it comes to
language, they accept "evidence" for common descent that are extremely
undemanding (much less demanding than the equivalent we require in
biology for common descent), while at the same time requesting evidence
for common descent in evolution that is ludicrously restrictive.
bpuharic
>
>
>Some of the Gomerites migrated further to what is now called Wales.
>The Welsh historian, Davis, records a traditional Welsh belief that
ah. a traditional welsh belief. i've been to wales a few times. LOTS
of stories in that place.
>
>The most prominent descendant of Ham was Nimrod, the founder of Babel
>(Babylon), as well as of Erech, Accad and Calneh in Shinar
>(Babylonia).
>
>[more]
>http://creation.com/the-sixteen-grandsons-of-noah
these fairy tales have what to do with evolution?
bpuharic
wrote:
>On Dec 7, 12:07�pm, Ye Old One <use...@mcsuk.net> wrote:
>> On Sun, 6 Dec 2009 23:49:10 -0800 (PST), All-seeing-I
>> <ap...@email.com> enriched this group when s/he wrote:
>>
>> >The first of Noah s grandsons
>>
>> Noah is a fictional character.
>
>This may be, but then legends seem to be built on some sort of fact
>and persona.
go figure. people write stories about people. and on that basis
creationsist think they explain how stars work
idiocy
>
bpuharic
<allse...@usa.com> wrote:
>
>
>Impossible. Unless you think EVERYTHING written down about the past is
>just a lie to fool YOU all these years latter.
>
and you think they're all true. and if they're not, you just interpret
them that way
bpuharic
<ap...@email.com> wrote:
>
>It's ok. Most understand that Ham was a real person. And so was his
>father, Noah.
>
>So it's OK for you to understand and accept that too.
how can a guy who never existed have a son?
Kermit
> On Mon, 7 Dec 2009 15:00:16 -0800 (PST), sasam2 <f...@absamail.co.za>
I concur. The cult existed when Paul took it over; there almost
certainly had been a founding personality a generation before. I would
not want to bet whether any of the quotes attributed to him were
accurate.
Kermit
bpuharic
<allse...@usa.com> wrote:
>
>Why won't you accept "Textual Evidence"? The same type of textual
>evidence that is allowed by governments and courts of law? They seem
>to think textual evidence is valid.
and they all agree scientific evidence trumps textual evidence
bpuharic
<ap...@email.com> wrote:
>On Dec 7, 8:54�am, Boikat <boi...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> On Dec 7, 1:49�am, All-seeing-I <ap...@email.com> wrote:
>>
>> > The first of Noah s grandsons mentioned is Gomer
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> Well, GoooOOoollllly and Shazam!
>>
>> You're a sucker for anything, as long as it is anti-mainstream
>> science, aren't you?
>>
>> Boikat
>
>Mainstream science has lost it's way Boikitty
and proof of that is it doesn't agree with creationism...an idea that
has failed for 2000 years.
>
>Science use to be quite a nobel profession; One to be admired. People
>that think like you think however, have ruined science.
check pat buchanan's interview in 'physics today' in 1987. there, he
said scientists have to be controlled so they don't do research in
evolution.
you guys never change your tune
>
>I'm here to edcuate you on what science is all about Boikitty.
and i'm here to educate you on the bible and jesus christ.
>
>Science is about posibilties and not about conforming to your ridged
>thinking.
and jesus is about truth, not your lies
Dan Listermann
> Science is about posibilties and not about conforming to your ridged
> thinking.
And you seem to think that all "possibilities" are equally possible. Some
"science."
.
Dan Listermann
"haiku jones" <575j...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:93639560-307d-4724...@m33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
.
Caranx latus
> On Dec 7, 8:42 am, Caranx latus <kar...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
<snip>
>>>>> The most prominent descendant of Ham was Nimrod, the founder of Babel
>>>>> (Babylon), as well as of Erech, Accad and Calneh in Shinar
>>>>> (Babylonia).
>>>>> [more]http://creation.com/the-sixteen-grandsons-of-noah
>>>> Interesting, but off-topic. How about posting it to a religious
>>>> newsgroup?
>>>> Eric Root
>>> This has to do with ORIGINS, of language. Please go read the TO web
>>> site and you will find that this is directly on topic for this NG.
>> From <http://www.ediacara.org/~to/charter.html>:
>> "The newsgroup talk.origins is meant as a venue for discussion of the
>> scientific, religious, and political issues pertaining to various
>> theories of the origins and development of life and the universe."
>>
>> The way I read that, it seems that the origins of language is
>> technically off-topic. But, please, don't let facts interfere with
>> your course of action.
>
> For the LAST TIME:
>
> <QUOTE>
> Talk.origins ("t.o.") is a newsgroup devoted to the discussion of
> issues related to biological and physical origins. Topics discussed
> include, but are not limited to, evolution, creation, abiogenesis,
> catastrophism, cosmology, and theology. Be assured that you will find
> lively, often heated, exchanges between people of all persuasions.
>
> Much of the bandwidth of t.o. is used for discussion of the merits of
> various ideas about origins. Other types of posts, however, are
> welcome (and, in fact, refreshing!), particularly [MI]:
>
> �A scientific Theory of Creation
> �Personal experiences which have affected your attitudes on the
> subject
> �Relevant news, scientific and/or political
> �Anything original, entertaining, and/or downright brilliant :-)
>
> http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-welcome.html
> <END QUOTE>
>
> 1) This topic falls under "theology"
Marginally.
> 2) This topic falls under "creation"
Not even remotely.
> 3) This topic falls under " various ideas about origins".
Not even remotely. Ideas about various origins, perhaps.
> Specifically: Language
>
> finally and most importantly, number 4) This topic falls under:
> "�Anything original, entertaining, and/or downright brilliant :-)"
>
> Of which. ALL of my posts fall under number 4 <G>
Not all of them do. Your famous series of that-would-be-you posts fall
well short on every count. The remainder of your posts are neither
original nor downright brilliant, but I will admit to being entertained
by many of them, although probably not for reasons that you'd like to be
remembered for.
All-seeing-I
> On Mon, 7 Dec 2009 13:30:26 -0800 (PST), sasam2 <f...@absamail.co.za>
no.
denial
All-Seeing-I
>
> - Show quoted text -
you guys rationalize away far too much information
it really is THAT simple
Dan Listermann
You can only take "textual data" seriously if it was written by bronze age
goat herders. The rest is rubbish.
.