Unmoved Mover
Dale
What causes evolution? What causes abiogenesis? What causes the big bang?
As each is answered an infinite regression of cause results, a prime
mover, a mover that is not moved but moves all other things, a God.
--
http://www.dalekellyonline.com
Dale
"What does God want? Does God want goodness or the choice of goodness? Is
a man who chooses the bad perhaps in some way better than a man who has
the good imposed upon him?" Anthony Burgess
Andre Lieven
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unmoved_mover
>
> What causes evolution? What causes abiogenesis? What causes the big bang?
> As each is answered an infinite regression of cause results, a prime
> mover, a mover that is not moved but moves all other things, a God.
Philosophical concepts (As Wikipedia calls this.) are NOT evidence.
Your Grade: Epic Fail.
Andre
Thurisaz the Einherjer
> As each is answered an infinite regression of cause results, a prime
> mover, a mover that is not moved but moves all other things, a God.
Yes, and His name is Odin.
Prove me wrong.
Moron.
--
Romans 2:24 revised:
"For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you
cretinists, as it is written on aig."
My personal judgment of monotheism: http://www.carcosa.de/nojebus
Sapient Fridge
<inv...@invalid.invalid> writes
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unmoved_mover
>
>What causes evolution? What causes abiogenesis? What causes the big bang?
>As each is answered an infinite regression of cause results, a prime
>mover, a mover that is not moved but moves all other things, a God.
What causes a god?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_pleading
--
sapient_...@spamsights.org ICQ #17887309 * Save the net *
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Iain
> As each is answered an infinite regression of cause results, a prime
> mover, a mover that is not moved but moves all other things, a God.
First mover does not = a god.
--iain
All-seeing-I
wrote:
> In message <pan.2009.11.14.05.19...@invalid.invalid>, Dale
> <inva...@invalid.invalid> writes
>
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unmoved_mover
>
> >What causes evolution? What causes abiogenesis? What causes the big bang?
> >As each is answered an infinite regression of cause results, a prime
> >mover, a mover that is not moved but moves all other things, a God.
>
> What causes a god?
God has no "cause. God *is the cause; And the effect
Boikat
Evidence?
Boikat
Sapient Fridge
<755fc57b-e299-4213...@t2g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
All-seeing-I <ap...@email.com> writes
I noticed you snipped the reference to "special pleading". Maybe you
should read the page. I assure you that it is relevant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_pleading
If you are making a special case for your god then it's just as valid
for me to make a special case for the big bang, and your god vanishes in
a puff of logic.
Mike Dworetsky
Recopied from wikipedia site:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_pleading
For some reason your link didn't work.
--
Mike Dworetsky
(Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply)
Frank J
<MAILTOsecret...@carcosa.de> wrote:
> Morontheist "Dale":
>
> > As each is answered an infinite regression of cause results, a prime
> > mover, a mover that is not moved but moves all other things, a God.
>
> Yes, and His name is Odin.
>
> Prove me wrong.
That's easy. His name is, or was, "Average Joe." ;-)
Frank J
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unmoved_mover
>
> What causes evolution? What causes abiogenesis? What causes the big bang?
> As each is answered an infinite regression of cause results, a prime
> mover, a mover that is not moved but moves all other things, a God.
>
> Dale
>
> "What does God want? Does God want goodness or the choice of goodness? Is
> a man who chooses the bad perhaps in some way better than a man who has
> the good imposed upon him?" Anthony Burgess
Welcome back.
At one point I recall you promoting solipsism. I'm not as sure, but I
think you also dabbled with atheism. If I'm mistaken about either
please refresh my memory with links to old TO posts.
In any case the "welcome back" is sincere because I'd much rather read
your novel opinions than the predictable nonsense we get from the 3-4
trolls who have all but taken over TO.
Frank J
He has something better than evidence. Follow this "logic":
Despite all their "irreducible complexity" animals' eyes have many
imperfections that limit their vision (optic never in a nonideal
place, etc.) So they first "eye" had to be able to see everything
before it could do anything. That first eye was the entire being, and
for you linguistic evolution freaks, that's why "eye" and "I" are
pronounced the same. Ergo - and let's be clear that ID can accommodate
all the results of this "theory" - [M]adman created God! ;-)
I apologize if that caused anyone to spray their keyboard with their
morning coffee.
Free Lunch
<iain_i...@hotmail.com> wrote in talk.origins:
If the theist wants to claim that, why should they be constrained by
logic or reality?
Free Lunch
wrote in talk.origins:
How do you conclude that God has no cause when you don't bother to go
through the effort to explain how you got to that conclusion. If you
would try, you would find out that you cannot get to that conclusion,
you can only make it as an unjustified assertion.
Stuart
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unmoved_mover
>
> What causes evolution? What causes abiogenesis? What causes the big bang?
> As each is answered an infinite regression of cause results, a prime
> mover, a mover that is not moved but moves all other things, a God.
>
What causes God?
Stuart
Stuart
If God doesn't need a cause, why does the Universe?
Stuart
half...@bfe.inc
<use_repl...@spamsights.org> wrote:
>In message
><755fc57b-e299-4213...@t2g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
>All-seeing-I <ap...@email.com> writes
>>On Nov 14, 2:22�am, Sapient Fridge <use_reply_addr...@spamsights.org>
>>wrote:
>>> In message <pan.2009.11.14.05.19...@invalid.invalid>, Dale
>>> <inva...@invalid.invalid> writes
>>>
>>> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unmoved_mover
>>>
>>> >What causes evolution? What causes abiogenesis? What causes the big bang?
>>> >As each is answered an infinite regression of cause results, a prime
>>> >mover, a mover that is not moved but moves all other things, a God.
>>>
>>> What causes a god?
>>
>>God has no "cause. God *is the cause; And the effect
>
>I noticed you snipped the reference to "special pleading". Maybe you
>should read the page. I assure you that it is relevant.
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_pleading
>
>If you are making a special case for your god then it's just as valid
>for me to make a special case for the big bang, and your god vanishes in
>a puff of logic.
Possibly of interest to some from the Special Pleading site listed
above:
" * assertion that literally nobody has the qualifications
necessary to comprehend a point of view
Example: I know the idea that ball lightning is caused by ghosts
makes no sense to you, but that's only because you're human. Humans
cannot understand supernatural phenomena. "
I just thought it interesting considering some of the conversations
lately on TO.
Halfstop
odin
<MAILTOsecret...@carcosa.de> wrote:
> Morontheist "Dale":
>
> > As each is answered an infinite regression of cause results, a prime
> > mover, a mover that is not moved but moves all other things, a God.
>
> Yes, and His name is Odin.
>
> Prove me wrong.
Right on!
Augray
Didn't you once imply that God is an extraterrestrial?
Steven L.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unmoved_mover
>
> What causes evolution? What causes abiogenesis? What causes the big bang?
> As each is answered an infinite regression of cause results, a prime
> mover, a mover that is not moved but moves all other things, a God.
Insofar as evolution and abiogenesis and the big bang are all consonant
with the laws of physics and chemistry:
I guess what you're asking is: How did the Universe come to be, with
all its laws of physics and chemistry?
And yes, I believe in a Higher Power that created this Universe.
So does Ken Miller. He believes God created this universe as an
incubator of intelligent civilizations on various planets.
So do all modernist Christians.
"Theistic evolutionists believe that there is a God, that God is the
creator of the material universe and (by consequence) all life within,
and that biological evolution is simply a natural process within that
creation. Evolution, according to this view, is simply a tool that God
employed to develop human life."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_evolution
So I agree with you.
--
Steven L.
Email: sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
R Brown
"All-seeing-I" <ap...@email.com> wrote in message
news:755fc57b-e299-4213...@t2g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
Well, that settles that. We can all go home now. I guess evolution is just
one of God's effects for which s/he/it is the cause.
Earle Jones
<ea0b6efb-80b6-4972...@j35g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
Stuart <bigd...@gmail.com> wrote:
*
Gene Scott?
*
Earle Jones
"Steven L." <sdli...@earthlink.net> wrote:
*
I think it is reasonable to think this way:
1. I do not know what it was that caused the universe to exist.
2. But whatever it was, I will call "God".
Now that approach is rational -- that is, it is not inconsistent -- it
does not violate any laws of logic.
But it has a problem. The word "God" means something different to many
different people. To some, it is the big guy who will send you to
hellfire if you don't believe in him.
It is as if I discovered a new force in nature, one that had never been
seen before, and I choose to give it a name: I'll call it "gravity".
That would be confusing as hell. The word "gravity" is already taken.
It means something else.
The word "God" is already taken. It means many other things. When you
discuss "God", which "God" are you referring to? The one who created
the universe or the one who gave birth to Jesus via a spirit and who is
a jealous God who will strike you dead? Or are you referring to Allah,
or Vishnu, or (my favorite) the God of Santeria, Babalu aye?
Call it something else.
earle
*
Earle Jones
<6eba2ffe-ecbc-40d7...@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
Boikat <boi...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
*
Evidence? We don't got to show you no stinkin' evidence!
earle
*
Earle Jones
<dd3bf27f-7636-4051...@e7g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>,
Frank J <fc...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Nov 14, 1:54�am, Thurisaz the Einherjer
> <MAILTOsecret...@carcosa.de> wrote:
> > Morontheist "Dale":
> >
> > > As each is answered an infinite regression of cause results, a prime
> > > mover, a mover that is not moved but moves all other things, a God.
*
How would you know that it is an "infinite regression" and not a large
cyclic regression where each effect is produced by a cause and the whole
field is circular?
earle
*
Bob Casanova
appeared in talk.origins, posted by Dale
<inv...@invalid.invalid>:
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unmoved_mover
>
>What causes evolution?
Several things, but all relate to the failure of progeny to
exactly resemble their parents.
> What causes abiogenesis?
Shouldn't that be "caused"? Or are you aware of something
happening that's eluded everyone else? Anyway, there are
several ideas about this; the one I like (which doesn't make
it true, unlike the way fundies feel about whatever religion
they happen to be desecrating) is the idea that it started
with self-replicating molecules which didn't always "breed
true". YMMV.
> What causes the big bang?
That one should *definitely* be "caused"; I think we'd
notice if it happened again. I've read that some
cosmologists think it was some form of vacuum fluctuation.
Again, YMMV.
>As each is answered an infinite regression of cause results, a prime
>mover, a mover that is not moved but moves all other things, a God.
Nope; sorry. The fact that something exists does not provide
evidence regarding its beginning, and there's no evidence
supporting the existence of any deity.
Why not rely on faith and stop trying (unsuccessfully) to
"prove" the existence of that which can be neither known nor
demonstrated? Or have you no faith?
--
Bob C.
"Evidence confirming an observation is
evidence that the observation is wrong."
- McNameless
Bob Casanova
in talk.origins, posted by Augray <aug...@sympatico.ca>:
He must be; He's certainly not a terrestrial.
Mike Painter
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unmoved_mover
>
> What causes evolution? What causes abiogenesis? What causes the big
> bang? As each is answered an infinite regression of cause results, a
> prime mover, a mover that is not moved but moves all other things, a
> God.
Yawn.
At the point where Aquinas "determines" (makes an arbitrary choice) there is
a prime mover and call it god, what is the difference between the big bang
and that god?
I've been asking this for years and not one of you parrots knows the
answers.
Mike Painter
And why is the concept of an "infinite regression except that it isn't
becasue I said so" any less valid than an infinite regression?
Cory Albrecht
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unmoved_mover
>
> What causes evolution? What causes abiogenesis? What causes the big bang?
> mover, a mover that is not moved but moves all other things, a God.
Unsupported assertion, Dale, though at least this one is more coherent
than your normal LSD-enabled ones.
Mark Isaak
> On Nov 14, 5:19 am, Dale <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> As each is answered an infinite regression of cause results, a prime
>> mover, a mover that is not moved but moves all other things, a God.
>
> First mover does not = a god.
In fact, the term "God" is undefined. All Dale can say about his unmoved
mover is, well, nothing whatsoever. It's like his concept of God is a
god doesn't even exist.
--
Mark Isaak eciton (at) earthlink (dot) net
"It is certain, from experience, that the smallest grain of natural
honesty and benevolence has more effect on men's conduct, than the most
pompous views suggested by theological theories and systems." - D. Hume
Cory Albrecht
> On Nov 14, 2:22 am, Sapient Fridge<use_reply_addr...@spamsights.org>
> wrote:
>> In message<pan.2009.11.14.05.19...@invalid.invalid>, Dale
>> <inva...@invalid.invalid> writes
>>
>>
>>> What causes evolution? What causes abiogenesis? What causes the big bang?
>>> mover, a mover that is not moved but moves all other things, a God.
>>
>
> God has no "cause. God *is the cause; And the effect
>
>
>
Dale
> In any case the "welcome back" is sincere because I'd much rather read
> your novel opinions than the predictable nonsense we get from the 3-4
> trolls who have all but taken over TO.
Thanks Frank.
--
Dakota
> On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 04:33:49 -0800, Frank J wrote:
>
>> In any case the "welcome back" is sincere because I'd much rather read
>> your novel opinions than the predictable nonsense we get from the 3-4
>> trolls who have all but taken over TO.
>
> Thanks Frank.
>
Let's say I agree that there was once an unmoved mover. Let's say I
agree that the unmoved mover is called god. Someone will soon come up
with the idea of an uncreated creator and will want to call it god. I
can find no reason to believe that the unmoved mover is also the
uncreated creator. Because the unmoved mover is called god, isn't it
reasonable to call the uncreated creator by some other name? Is there
any reason to believe that these two entities continued to exist after
accomplishing the single task attributed to each of them?
Dan Listermann
"Dakota" <ma...@NOSPAMmail.com> wrote in message
news:uqGdnYqjWNmYlZ3W...@giganews.com...
How about we call it the "unknown" and quit anthropomorphizing it.
.
Louann Miller
news:pan.2009.11...@invalid.invalid:
> As each is answered an infinite regression of cause results, a
> prime mover, a mover that is not moved but moves all other things, a
> God.
And this indifference, nay disdain, for the worshipper reveals the nature
of the god in question: Queen Maeve. Only a cat would act like that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Thursdayism#Other_formulations
Desertphile
<inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> What causes evolution?
See the WikiPedia article on the subject.
> What causes abiogenesis?
See the WikiPedia article on the subject.
> What causes the big bang?
See the WikiPedia article on the subject.
> As each is answered an infinite regression of cause results, a prime
> mover, a mover that is not moved but moves all other things, a god.
No evidence, therefore *DISMISSED!* Try again. By the way, you
have been banned from posting in this newsgroupo because you
violated the only rule: why are you still posting here?
--
http://desertphile.org
Desertphile's Desert Soliloquy. WARNING: view with plenty of water
"Why aren't resurrections from the dead noteworthy?" -- Jim Rutz
Desertphile
<use_repl...@spamsights.org> wrote:
> In message <pan.2009.11...@invalid.invalid>, Dale
> <inv...@invalid.invalid> writes
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unmoved_mover
> >
> >What causes evolution? What causes abiogenesis? What causes the big bang?
> >As each is answered an infinite regression of cause results, a prime
> >mover, a mover that is not moved but moves all other things, a God.
> What causes a god?
Human ignorance and fear.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_pleading
Desertphile
<fc...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Nov 14, 1:54 am, Thurisaz the Einherjer
> <MAILTOsecret...@carcosa.de> wrote:
> > Morontheist "Dale":
> >
> > > As each is answered an infinite regression of cause results, a prime
> > > mover, a mover that is not moved but moves all other things, a God.
> >
> > Yes, and His name is Odin.
> >
> > Prove me wrong.
> That's easy. His name is, or was, "Average Joe." ;-)
"He?" Boy, are you going to be sorry when you stand before Her!
Desertphile
> On Nov 14, 2:22 am, Sapient Fridge <use_reply_addr...@spamsights.org>
> wrote:
> > In message <pan.2009.11.14.05.19...@invalid.invalid>, Dale
> > <inva...@invalid.invalid> writes
> >
> > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unmoved_mover
> >
> > >What causes evolution? What causes abiogenesis? What causes the big bang?
> > >As each is answered an infinite regression of cause results, a prime
> > >mover, a mover that is not moved but moves all other things, a God.
> >
> > What causes a god?
> God has no "cause. God *is the cause; And the effect
Okay, I give up: how do you "know" gods don't have causes?
Andre Lieven
wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 01:50:37 -0800 (PST), All-seeing-I
>
> <ap...@email.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 14, 2:22 am, Sapient Fridge <use_reply_addr...@spamsights.org>
> > wrote:
> > > In message <pan.2009.11.14.05.19...@invalid.invalid>, Dale
> > > <inva...@invalid.invalid> writes
>
> > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unmoved_mover
>
> > > >What causes evolution? What causes abiogenesis? What causes the big bang?
> > > >As each is answered an infinite regression of cause results, a prime
> > > >mover, a mover that is not moved but moves all other things, a God.
>
> > > What causes a god?
> > God has no "cause. God *is the cause; And the effect
>
> Okay, I give up: how do you "know" gods don't have causes?
More to the point, what it his evidence that gods don't have causes ?
Yeah, I know asking a fundy loon for evidence is like asking a cat to
paint the Mona Lisa, neither at all can understand the problem.
Andre
Bob Casanova
in talk.origins, posted by Cory Albrecht
<coryal...@hotmail.com>:
....by a Special Child.
Bob Casanova
in talk.origins, posted by Bob Casanova <nos...@buzz.off>:
[crickets...]
Run away, Dale.
Hatunen
<inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unmoved_mover
>
>What causes evolution? What causes abiogenesis? What causes the big bang?
>As each is answered an infinite regression of cause results, a prime
>mover, a mover that is not moved but moves all other things, a God.
You do understand that the prime cause argument is infinetely
regressive: What caused God?
--
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
Earle Jones
<8055f74a-7647-488c...@j24g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
Andre Lieven <andre...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> On Nov 15, 11:59�am, Desertphile <desertph...@invalid-address.net>
> wrote:
> > On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 01:50:37 -0800 (PST), All-seeing-I
> >
> > <ap...@email.com> wrote:
> > > On Nov 14, 2:22�am, Sapient Fridge <use_reply_addr...@spamsights.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > > In message <pan.2009.11.14.05.19...@invalid.invalid>, Dale
> > > > <inva...@invalid.invalid> writes
> >
> > > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unmoved_mover
> >
> > > > >What causes evolution? What causes abiogenesis? What causes the big
> > > > >bang?
> > > > >As each is answered an infinite regression of cause results, a prime
> > > > >mover, a mover that is not moved but moves all other things, a God.
> >
> > > > What causes a god?
> > > God has no "cause. God *is the cause; And the effect
> >
> > Okay, I give up: how do you "know" gods don't have causes?
>
> More to the point, what it his evidence that gods don't have causes ?
*
While you're working on that problem, here is another:
If elephants had feathers, what color would they be?
earle
*