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From: Dana Tweedy <reddfrog...@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Behe on Falsifying ID & Evolution
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On 6/28/12 2:46 PM, Ray Martinez wrote:
> On Jun 27, 10:45 pm, timothya1...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Thursday, June 28, 2012 10:16:59 AM UTC+10, Ray Martinez wrote:
>>> On Jun 27, 5:01 pm, timothya1...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, June 28, 2012 9:30:20 AM UTC+10, Ray Martinez wrote:
>>>>> On Jun 27, 1:15 pm, backspace<stephan...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>> On Jun 27, 8:44 pm, Ray Martinez
>>>>>   wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> YouTube: 1 minute and 36 seconds of your time:
>>
>>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8jXXJN4o_A
>>
>>>>>>> Ray
>>
>>>>>> In the video, what does he mean with natural selection: what is a
>>>>>> natural selection?
>>
>>>>> Since natural selection is limited in the number of modifications that
>>>>> it can preserve at any one time, and since the flagellum consists of
>>>>> least 42 indispensable proteins, he is pointing out that the Darwinian
>>>>> mechanism could not and cannot produce said phenomena.
>>
>>>>> Ray
>>
>>>> Yes. Limited by the size of the organism's genome and the degree of phenotypic change induced by the mutation. If all mutations are neutral wrt to fitness,>  then theoretically, all base pairs could change simultaneously with no effect on the organism's survival.
>>
>>> But we are not talking about neutral mutations----quite the contrary.
>>> The issue is mutations and selection that "create" complex phenomena.
>>> My initial suspicion is that you don't understand the basic claims of
>>> selection and drift.
>>
>>> Ray
>>
>> Non-neutral mutations can be fixed by selection in parallel so long as they either improve overall fitness or at least do not reduce fitness disastrously for the individual.
>
> In parallel to what? What's the point?

Parallel to other mutations in the individual, of course.



>
>> If you think otherwise, do you want to propose a figure for the upper limit on a "tolerable">number of parallel mutations?
>
> I don't even know what a "parallel mutation" is, and I don't really
> care. Evolution is ad hoc all the way. You guys just make stuff up as
> needed.

For someone who claims to be knowledgeable about the "basic claims of 
selection and drift", it's very clear you know nothing about the topic 
at all.  You don't even know that much, much more than one mutation is 
in play in any population, at any given time.   There are hundreds of 
thousands of mutations in any population in a given generation.


DJT




>
> Ray
>
>