On Dec 2, 8:02 am, George <gburk...@twcny.rr.com> wrote:

Oh, indeed they have.  It appears that you are using the creationist's
primary weapon, willful ignorance.  Please go back and read our
responses.  Then do the gentlemanly thing, and respond to us.

1.  That's because you haven't read our responses for comprehension.

2. Faith has *nothing* to do with it.

No you're not, George, or you would have replied to at least *one* of
our posts in the other threads you started.

What you are doing - and we *all* know it - is Lying For Jesus.  I'm
hip to it.  When I was an itty-bitty Baptist and born-again christian,
I used to do it, too.

You would be well advised to be less interested in "truth" and more
interested in "fact."

"Truth" is information with a psychological component. Everybody is
selling their rap as "truth."  You.  The Scientologists.  The
Muslims.  The Mormons.  The Raelians.  And there are many, many more.

*Fact*, on the other hand, is straightforward:  it a unit of knowledge
that is subject to verification for accuracy.  It is a *fact* that
life forms on earth evolve, just like it is a *fact* that the earth
orbits the sun and it is a *fact* that gravity makes stuff fall down
instead of up.

Facts are your friends.

Funny you should mention it, but it was the *utter* lack of moral
integrity that first drove me away from (in order):  the Baptist
church --> Fundamentalism --> Christianity in general --> all
organized religion.

And once I got to that point, it was simple to ask the question, "What
evidence is there that *any* god exists?"  Answer:  "None at all."

So what is it you think "evolutionists" (a pejorative term, by the
way) are doing or saying that demonstrates their/our lack of moral
integrity?

And yet you are bearing false witness against us right now, by not
reading and responding to the answers we gave you, point-by-point, in
the first couple of posts.  You, sir, are a hypocrite of the First
Water.

It's like this, George:  to you have *any* objective, verifiable
evidence - and bible verses do *not* count - that any god exists?  If
so, please post it here:

Humans are not moral and ethical because they think a God is watching
them.  (Well, okay, there are some people like that, but I try to stay
as far away from them as I possibly can because they're psychopaths.)
Humans have a tendency to behave morally because we are social
animals, and having and adhering to a social code makes living in a
big group safer and more pleasant, and contributes to the survival of
the gene pool.  Other social animals have rudimentary moral codes,
including gorillas, chimps, bonobos, and wolves.  I'm sure there are
more; those are just the ones I can name off the top of my head.

Evolution *is* a fact.  It has been observed in the wild and in the
laboratory.  It is going on around you every single day.

Well George, those words were written in a simpler time.  Now we have
a better way of knowing:  it's called *science*.  I do not believe
something someone tells me unless s/he has evidence to back up her/his
claim.  During bible times, everyone believed in magic and the
supernatural, so if someone claimed that he talked to a god, folks
tended to believe him.

We know better today.

No, the bible was written by goat herders during the Bronze and Iron
Ages, when all humans (pretty much) believed in magic and the
supernatural.

Genesis is *metaphor*.  It is not factual, however much you think that
it's *true*.

You need to be schooled on what these words mean, George.

"Conjecture" in science is called an "hypothesis."  When a scientist
has a conjecture/hypothesis, s/he devises a way to test it.  Then s/he
publishes the results of the test, so that other scientists can do the
test themselves.  The facts they gather about the hypothesis by this
method are called "data."

A "theory" does NOT mean "a wild guess" in science. It means "a
systematic explanation of a phenomenon that accounts for all the known
data."

And opinions?  Opinions are like belly buttons, George:  everybody has
'em.  However, in *science*, your opinion doesn't mean squat unless
you can back it up with *data*.

And we have *data* to back up evolution, George.  *Mountains* of it.
From quite a few different scientific disciplines.

Well, that's very Bronze Age of you, George.  But here in the 21st
Century, we tend not to put too much stock into revealed knowledge if
it contradicts the data.

Have you ever thought about the problem that revealed knowledge
presents?  I'll tell you what it is:  *anybody* can claim that a god
is revealing knowledge to her/him.  And if you believe that
supernatural beings ("gods") exist and that they communicate with
humans, then there's no way you can tell whether this new revelation
is "from God" or just an active case of schizophrenia.

That's why science trumps revelation, George:  every single time,
hands-down and walkin' away.

And the preponderance of evidence supports evolution, George.  Sorry
about that.  Why don't you read the talk.origins archive and find out
what our evidence really is?

By the way:  I've read the bible, cover-to-cover, several times, lest
you make the mistake of thinking that I come to my present position
out of ignorance.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you:  I was about to quote Hebrews 11:1 to *you*.  Here's
another way of saying the same thing that Hebrews 11:1 says:  "Faith
is believin' what you know ain't so."  That's a quote from Mark Twain.

Faith is *not* a virtue, George.  Faith is a character flaw.

If the Genesis myth resonates for you, George, that's fine.  For you,
it's true - although it is *NOT FACTUAL*.

What you need to realize is that what resonates for *us* is the
grandeur and beauty of the natural world that has evolved.  Nothing in
your book of Middle Eastern mythology can come anywhere close to how
stupendous the natural world really is.  I came to understand this
when I ceased being a christian. Instead of spending my days longing
for heaven and singing "This world is not my home/I'm just a-passin'
through/If heaven's not my home/then Lord, what will I do?/The angels
beckon me/from heaven's open door/and I can't feel at home in this
world anymore," I could walk my beloved Sonoran Desert and know that I
was kin to every tree, every bee, every snake, every hawk, every
bobcat.  It is a deep and profound joy to know that I am *where I
belong.*

You know that song I quoted, George?  That sums it up for me.  People
waiting to die so they can go "home," all the while blind and ignorant
to the factual marvels around them on earth.

Been there, done that, George.  Not interested.

Now kindly start replying to people who post answers to your messages,
okay?  It's the honorable thing to do.

Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
skyeyes nine at cox dot net