problem with problems with flood

[Iris Jones]

M Isaak,
You presuppose there is no God.

I Jones

[Ernest Major]

In message
<f1cd61f2-2ca9-46ae...@4g2000yql.googlegroups.com>, Iris
Jones <ijo...@gmail.com> writes

>M Isaak,
>You presuppose there is no God.
>
>I Jones
>

You missed out some significant words. To reject the factuality of a
Noachian Flood only requires the presupposition that evidence means
something; that is that there is no *trickster* God *of sufficient
power*.
--
alias Ernest Major

[Mark Isaak]

You presume incorrectly. I merely presume that God is neither created
nor ordered about by people.

--
Mark Isaak eciton (at) curioustaxonomy (dot) net
"It is certain, from experience, that the smallest grain of natural
honesty and benevolence has more effect on men's conduct, than the most
pompous views suggested by theological theories and systems." - D. Hume

[John Stockwell]

On Wednesday, November 14, 2012 5:47:28 AM UTC-7, Iris Jones wrote:
> M Isaak,
>
> You presuppose there is no God.

No. We presuppose that there is no Trickster God.


John
>
>
>
> I Jones

[Will in New Haven]

On Nov 14, 8:17�am, Ernest Major <{$t...@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message
> <f1cd61f2-2ca9-46ae-87d8-0692bf500...@4g2000yql.googlegroups.com>, Iris

> Jones <ijo...@gmail.com> writes>M Isaak,
> >You presuppose there is no God.
>
> >I Jones
>
> You missed out some significant words. To reject the factuality of a
> Noachian Flood only requires the presupposition that evidence means
> something; that is that there is no *trickster* God *of sufficient
> power*.

Or that there might be a trickster god of sufficient power but she
isn't interested in pretending there was a global flood, doesn't do
hoaxes to order.

--
Will in New Haven

[Robert Carnegie: Fnord: cc talk-origins@moderators.isc.org]

On Wednesday, 14 November 2012 13:17:29 UTC, Ernest Major wrote:
> You missed out some significant words. To reject the factuality
> of a Noachian Flood only requires the presupposition that evidence
> means something; that is that there is no *trickster* God *of
> sufficient power*.

i.e., that neither God nor anyone else would miraculously destroy
all physical evidence of Noah's worldwide flood - the Grand Canyon,
for instance, does not count as evidence of that - except for
the story being written in various myths around the world, not only
the Jewish tradition, but with substantial differences between
tellings.

The world does not bear the marks that it would do if Noah's story
was entirely factual. By /entirely/ factual, I mean to say that
"There was a flood somewhere once, but some people put their stuff
into a boat, so they were okay", is sometimes claimed as a probable
true story behind Noah's story, with the difference that with Noah,
everyone in the world who isn't in the boat dies.

Consider this: what is the point of putting the Noah story in the
bible? What does it tell you that is useful to know? It tells you
that God can kill everybody in the world. And it tells you that he
has promised that he won't do that again, having done it once
(nearly everybody). It tells you that the sea goes in and out on
the sea shore but only within limits that God has now set for it.
But... did you hear about Hurricane Sandy? Or did you ever hear
about a tsunami? Think about that, please.

[Boikat]

On Nov 14, 6:47�am, Iris Jones <ijo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> M Isaak,
> You presuppose there is no God.

By the same "logic", you presuppose there is a God. The two cancel
each other out, and anyone who looks is left with the physical
evidence.

What is the physical evidence that demonstrates that there was a
Biblical flood a few thousand years ago? (The Bible is not physical
evidence.)

Boikat

[SkyEyes]

You presuppose there *is* a god. In light of the *complete* lack of
evidence for any gods, nonbelief is the default position.

Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
skyeyes nine at cox dot net OR
skyeyes nine at yahoo dot com

[J. J. Lodder J. J. Lodder]

It's strnge that religionists always look for evidence
-for- such a flood, and completely ignore all evidence
that such a flood never happened. [1]

Jan

[1]
Such as existence of cave art that flooding would have destroyed,
continuity of Egyptian history despite a kill-all flood
right in the middle of the pyramid building period, and so on and on.

[J. J. Lodder J. J. Lodder]

Robert Carnegie: Fnord: cc talk-o...@moderators.isc.org

<rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:

> On Wednesday, 14 November 2012 13:17:29 UTC, Ernest Major wrote:
> > You missed out some significant words. To reject the factuality
> > of a Noachian Flood only requires the presupposition that evidence
> > means something; that is that there is no *trickster* God *of
> > sufficient power*.
>
> i.e., that neither God nor anyone else would miraculously destroy
> all physical evidence of Noah's worldwide flood - the Grand Canyon,
> for instance, does not count as evidence of that - except for
> the story being written in various myths around the world, not only
> the Jewish tradition, but with substantial differences between
> tellings.

Another nice one is Khufu's boat.
It was found carefully stowed away in a specially built structure
(not watertight of course) near the great pyramid,
and was found as put away.
It is obvious that floodwaters never touchd it.
By conventional Usherian reckoning,
and accurate astronomical dating of the greaat pyramid by Kate Spence,
it is somewhat pre-flood.
(but you might push it either way, since Usher is flexible)

So take your pick:
1) The boat predates the flood, but was miraculously restored.
by a malevolent goddess.
2) A few of Noah's sons emigrated to Egypt,
and almost single-handedly built the great Pyramid.
(and the boat) following the pre-flood building patterns.
3) The flood never happened.

Jan

[Earle Jones]

In article <f6a4fd44-de7c-4f64...@googlegroups.com>,

*
So does Edward O Wilson:

"Perhaps God did create all organisms, including human beings, in
finished form, in one stroke, and maybe it all happened several thousand
years ago. But if that is true, He also salted the earth with false
evidence in such endless and exquisite detail, and so thoroughly from
pole to pole, as to make us conclude first that life evolved, and
second, that the process took billions of years. Surely scripture tells
us He would not do that. The Prime Mover of the Old and New Testaments
is variously loving, magisterial, denying, thunderously angry, and
mysterious, but never tricky."

earle
*

[Earle Jones]

In article <k80ekn$324$1...@dont-email.me>,

Mark Isaak <eci...@curioustax.onomy.net> wrote:

> On 11/14/12 4:45 AM, Iris Jones wrote:
> > M Isaak,
> > You presuppose there is no God.
> >
> > I Jones
>
> You presume incorrectly. I merely presume that God is neither created
> nor ordered about by people.

*
I believe that man created God in his own image.

earle
*