"Professor says evolution unpopular in Muslim world"

[*Hemidactylus*]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/religion/article/Professor-says-evolution-unpopular-in-Muslim-world-3229411.php

[Ron O]

On Feb 12, 9:29 am, *Hemidactylus* <ecpho...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/religion/article/Professor-says-evol...

News flash! Evoution unpopular in the US Bible belt.

Years of scientific research indicates that this striking similarity
between Christians and Muslims may have something to do with the fact
that the fundies of both religions share the same creation story.

Ron Okimoto

[AGWFacts]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:29:12 -0500, *Hemidactylus*
<ecph...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/religion/article/Professor-says-evolution-unpopular-in-Muslim-world-3229411.php

The Muslim world has not evolved, yes.


--
"I am not ignorant simply because I choose to believe one
theory over another." -- Madison Murphy

[Mark Isaak]

On 2/13/12 9:36 AM, AGWFacts wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:29:12 -0500, *Hemidactylus*
> <ecph...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/religion/article/Professor-says-evolution-unpopular-in-Muslim-world-3229411.php
>
> The Muslim world has not evolved, yes.

Actually it has, just not in a good way. Islam used to be very
pro-science. (It still is for many Moslems, esp. those outside of Saudi
Arabia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and other theocracies.)

--
Mark Isaak eciton (at) curioustaxonomy (dot) net
"It is certain, from experience, that the smallest grain of natural
honesty and benevolence has more effect on men's conduct, than the most
pompous views suggested by theological theories and systems." - D. Hume

[*Hemidactylus*]

On 02/13/2012 09:48 PM, Mark Isaak wrote:
> On 2/13/12 9:36 AM, AGWFacts wrote:
>> On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:29:12 -0500, *Hemidactylus*
>> <ecph...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/religion/article/Professor-says-evolution-unpopular-in-Muslim-world-3229411.php
>>>
>>
>> The Muslim world has not evolved, yes.
>
> Actually it has, just not in a good way. Islam used to be very
> pro-science. (It still is for many Moslems, esp. those outside of Saudi
> Arabia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and other theocracies.)
>

So that leaves what...Dearborn, Michigan? Those Muslims are probably
still deluded that the Lions might make it to a Super Bowl. Can they be
trusted given their faith in the supernatural? Barry Sanders has been
long retired. Science says the Lions are doomed forever (ergo Muslims,
Jews, and many Christians are wrong). Hah! Atheists would never cheer
for that team, excepting the devil worshipping Canucks across the water
in Windsor with a soft spot in their heart for a lost cause...eh!

[*Hemidactylus*]

On 02/13/2012 12:36 PM, AGWFacts wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:29:12 -0500, *Hemidactylus*
> <ecph...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/religion/article/Professor-says-evolution-unpopular-in-Muslim-world-3229411.php
>
> The Muslim world has not evolved, yes.

The one Muslim guy I hang out with drinks vodka, so I'm not sure.
Generalizations do suck.

[Walter Bushell]

In article <FK-dnaNXSOAdRKTS...@giganews.com>,

Such a person's truth table is full of lies.

--
It is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant
and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting. -- H. L. Mencken

[Plum4u]

That's not a real Muslim. Real Muslims stay away from such things.

O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and
(divination by) arrows, are an abomination, Of Satan’s handiwork: Eschew
such (abomination) that ye may prosper. (Al Maida; 5:90)

[Bob Casanova]

On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 20:38:44 +0500, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by Plum4u <Plu...@No-SPAM.com>:

>On 14/02/2012 8:48 AM, *Hemidactylus* wrote:

>> On 02/13/2012 12:36 PM, AGWFacts wrote:

>>> On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:29:12 -0500, *Hemidactylus*
>>> <ecph...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>>>> http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/religion/article/Professor-says-evolution-unpopular-in-Muslim-world-3229411.php

>>> The Muslim world has not evolved, yes.

>> The one Muslim guy I hang out with drinks vodka, so I'm not sure.
>> Generalizations do suck.

>That's not a real Muslim. Real Muslims stay away from such things.

And the "No True Muslim" argument arises...
--

Bob C.

"Evidence confirming an observation is
evidence that the observation is wrong."
- McNameless

[Kermit]

On Feb 13, 7:20 pm, *Hemidactylus* <ecpho...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 02/13/2012 09:48 PM, Mark Isaak wrote:> On 2/13/12 9:36 AM, AGWFacts wrote:
> >> On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:29:12 -0500, *Hemidactylus*

> >> <ecpho...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/religion/article/Professor-says-evol...

>
> >> The Muslim world has not evolved, yes.
>
> > Actually it has, just not in a good way. Islam used to be very
> > pro-science. (It still is for many Moslems, esp. those outside of Saudi
> > Arabia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and other theocracies.)
>
> So that leaves what...Dearborn, Michigan? Those Muslims are probably
> still deluded that the Lions might make it to a Super Bowl. Can they be
> trusted given their faith in the supernatural? Barry Sanders has been
> long retired. Science says the Lions are doomed forever (ergo Muslims,
> Jews, and many Christians are wrong). Hah! Atheists would never cheer
> for that team, excepting the devil worshipping Canucks across the water
> in Windsor with a soft spot in their heart for a lost cause...eh!

It leaves Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, and some of the population
in Egypt.

Indonesia especially values education, particularly in science and
technology.

Kermit

[AGWFacts]

On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 18:48:46 -0800, Mark Isaak
<eci...@curioustaxonomyNOSPAM.net> wrote:

> On 2/13/12 9:36 AM, AGWFacts wrote:
> > On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:29:12 -0500, *Hemidactylus*
> > <ecph...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/religion/article/Professor-says-evolution-unpopular-in-Muslim-world-3229411.php

> > The Muslim world has not evolved, yes.

> Actually it has, just not in a good way. Islam used to be very
> pro-science. (It still is for many Moslems, esp. those outside of Saudi
> Arabia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and other theocracies.)

I slump corrected. Mathematics, optics, bookkeeping, astronomy...
all loveingly retained while Christiandumb (sic) tried to stamp it
out.

[AGWFacts]

I hope he also accepts the fact that evolution is observed to have
happened and still be happening. Anyone who drinks fermented
potatoes can't be completely stupid....

[Steven L.]

"Mark Isaak" <eci...@curioustaxonomyNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:jhci2e$cjo$1...@speranza.aioe.org:

> On 2/13/12 9:36 AM, AGWFacts wrote:
> > On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:29:12 -0500, *Hemidactylus*
> > <ecph...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/religion/article/Professor-says-evolution-unpopular-in-Muslim-world-3229411.php
> >
> > The Muslim world has not evolved, yes.
>
> Actually it has, just not in a good way. Islam used to be very
> pro-science. (It still is for many Moslems, esp. those outside of Saudi
> Arabia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and other theocracies.)

Islamic science used to flourish in the Middle East too, at a time when
Christian Europe was stuck in the Dark Ages.

The decline of Islamic science can be traced to the influence of such
philosophers as al-Ghazali, who circa 1100 A.D. argued that scientific
natural law does not exist. To al-Ghazali, the reason why an object
falls to the ground is not because it obeys any scientific laws, but
because Allah wills it to fall. All natural phenomena are just
manifestations of the will of Allah. And all that stuff from the
ancient Greeks that other Muslim thinkers had tried to preserve and
build upon was wrong and heretical, and should just be discarded.

As those ideas gained sway, Islamic science fell apart. It never
recovered.



-- Steven L.

[AGWFacts]

On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 20:38:44 +0500, Plum4u <Plu...@No-SPAM.com>
wrote:

> On 14/02/2012 8:48 AM, *Hemidactylus* wrote:
> > On 02/13/2012 12:36 PM, AGWFacts wrote:
> >> On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:29:12 -0500, *Hemidactylus*
> >> <ecph...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/religion/article/Professor-says-evolution-unpopular-in-Muslim-world-3229411.php
> >>>
> >>
> >> The Muslim world has not evolved, yes.
> >
> > The one Muslim guy I hang out with drinks vodka, so I'm not sure.
> > Generalizations do suck.

> That's not a real Muslim. Real Muslims stay away from such things.

If theists believed their own holy books, Christians would be
Jews.

> O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and
> (divination by) arrows, are an abomination, Of Satan’s handiwork: Eschew
> such (abomination) that ye may prosper. (Al Maida; 5:90)

[John Harshman]

That seems amazingly close to Ray's position.

[Walter Bushell]

In article <ri8lj75pq023ol9mr...@4ax.com>,

AGWFacts <AGWF...@ipcc.org> wrote:

> On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 20:38:44 +0500, Plum4u <Plu...@No-SPAM.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On 14/02/2012 8:48 AM, *Hemidactylus* wrote:
> > > On 02/13/2012 12:36 PM, AGWFacts wrote:
> > >> On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:29:12 -0500, *Hemidactylus*
> > >> <ecph...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/religion/article/Professor-says-evoluti
> > >>> on-unpopular-in-Muslim-world-3229411.php
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> The Muslim world has not evolved, yes.
> > >
> > > The one Muslim guy I hang out with drinks vodka, so I'm not sure.
> > > Generalizations do suck.
>
> > That's not a real Muslim. Real Muslims stay away from such things.
>
> If theists believed their own holy books, Christians would be
> Jews.

Christians have scriptural justification for not having to circumcise
boys and eat pork and shellfish. It gets quite hard to discern what
parts of the Jewish Bible are binding in many cases.

>
> > O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and
> > (divination by) arrows, are an abomination, Of Satan’s handiwork: Eschew
> > such (abomination) that ye may prosper. (Al Maida; 5:90)
>
>
> --
> "I am not ignorant simply because I choose to believe one
> theory over another." -- Madison Murphy

[Ernest Major]

In message <Y5ydnSaowKp...@giganews.com>, John Harshman
<jhar...@pacbell.net> writes

A number of us think that to the extent Ray has a coherent position it
is a variant on occasionalism, which is the name that applies to
al-Ghazali's position. Ray's position differs at least in being (at
least) dualistic.
--
alias Ernest Major

[John Harshman]

?

[Ernest Major]

In message <ANydnUMqI4H...@giganews.com>, John Harshman

Per Ray, speciation is the work of God, but antibiotic resistance is the
work of the devil.
--
alias Ernest Major

[Richard Norman]

That is a lot better than saying it is the result of evolutionists
ignorant of the law of multiplcation of probabilities forcing it on
the medical profession and causing suffering and death to millions.

[John Harshman]

I missed that. Can you cite?

[Burkhard]

On Feb 14, 9:20 pm, John Harshman <jharsh...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> Ernest Major wrote:

> > In message <ANydnUMqI4HFJqfSRVn_...@giganews.com>, John Harshman
> > <jharsh...@pacbell.net> writes
> >> Ernest Major wrote:
> >>> In message <Y5ydnSaowKprM6fS4p2d...@giganews.com>, John Harshman
> >>> <jharsh...@pacbell.net> writes

> >>>> Steven L. wrote:
> >>>>>   "Mark Isaak" <eci...@curioustaxonomyNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:jhci2e$cjo$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
>
> >>>>>> On 2/13/12 9:36 AM, AGWFacts wrote:
> >>>>>> > On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:29:12 -0500, *Hemidactylus*

> >>>>>> > <ecpho...@hotmail.com>  wrote:

http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/e4abf0c7be1fe3c4?hl=en

[John Harshman]

Amazing. Ray is not only weirder than we imagine; he is weirder than we
can imagine.

[Ernest Major]

In message <loednQj31JK...@giganews.com>, John Harshman

Ascribing antibiotic resistance to the devil

http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/99718898021f5765

A more general assertion of dualistic occasionalism

http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/2e2f778dc9836081

--
alias Ernest Major

[John Harshman]

Neither of these is altogether clear. Sadly, the second one tells us
that a full explanation must wait until he publishes his book, i.e. forever.

[*Hemidactylus*]

Do Muslims need to adhere strictly to every nook and cranny of the Koran
or Hadith to be Muslims? Put a different way, could there be a Muslim
for of Unitarianism, a more relaxed and liberal version of the faith?
Could an American Muslim football fan kick back with his buddies and
crack open a beer and still be a Muslim? I imagine Muslims in America
are far less constrained about exploring the secular side of life and
this might cause some inner and external tension for them, but it also
makes me wonder if Islam could be a living religion capable of adjusting
to the shifts of the places it finds itself in. Why would making
accommodations to science and the secular world be considered apostasy?

I know there must be some wildlife biology going on in parts of the
Muslim world, such as Oman with loggerhead sea turtles. Could Muslim
biologists look at turtles as fitting into a biologically derived
hierarchy, yet still keep their faith as Muslims in some theistic
evolutionary sense?

[Paul J Gans]

AGWFacts <AGWF...@ipcc.org> wrote:
>On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 18:48:46 -0800, Mark Isaak
><eci...@curioustaxonomyNOSPAM.net> wrote:

>> On 2/13/12 9:36 AM, AGWFacts wrote:
>> > On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:29:12 -0500, *Hemidactylus*
>> > <ecph...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/religion/article/Professor-says-evolution-unpopular-in-Muslim-world-3229411.php

>> > The Muslim world has not evolved, yes.

>> Actually it has, just not in a good way. Islam used to be very
>> pro-science. (It still is for many Moslems, esp. those outside of Saudi
>> Arabia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and other theocracies.)

>I slump corrected. Mathematics, optics, bookkeeping, astronomy...
>all loveingly retained while Christiandumb (sic) tried to stamp it
>out.

I'd not nitpick, but you do have "facts" in your nym. Christianity
did NOT try to stamp out mathematics, optics, bookkeeping, astronomy,
etc. As a society, christian europe was simply not interested in
such things. The proper study for man was clearly God's will.

Many cultures do this. Take a look at ours and compare the money
spent on entertainment (including gambling) with that spent
on science. We don't even honor scientists. A major political
group in the US claims that many of them are in a liberal conspiracy
to convince good Americans that there is such a thing as global
warming, that evolution is true, and crazy stuff about relativity.

What was your beef now?

--
--- Paul J. Gans

[*Hemidactylus*]

On 02/14/2012 01:04 PM, AGWFacts wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 22:48:16 -0500, *Hemidactylus*
> <ecph...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 02/13/2012 12:36 PM, AGWFacts wrote:
>>> On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:29:12 -0500, *Hemidactylus*
>>> <ecph...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/religion/article/Professor-says-evolution-unpopular-in-Muslim-world-3229411.php
>
>>> The Muslim world has not evolved, yes.
>
>> The one Muslim guy I hang out with drinks vodka, so I'm not sure.
>> Generalizations do suck.
>
> I hope he also accepts the fact that evolution is observed to have
> happened and still be happening. Anyone who drinks fermented
> potatoes can't be completely stupid....

He's probably in the same boat as my non-Muslim drinking buddies who
cling to an Abramic belief structure.

[Paul J Gans]

Well, it is a mostly true but somewhat simplistic position. Consider,
in support of Steven L., that while the printing press was known
in the Islamic lands, it took until the 19th century before anything
was allowed to be printed in Arabic -- and that took place under
the Ottoman Empire, who were never the most pure of muslims.

[Paul J Gans]

Nominated for the Talk Origins Amazing Sentence of the Day Award.

I love this group!

[Richard Norman]

Are you not aware of the good doctor doctor who has said exactly that
perhaps a few hundred times, now?

[Paul J Gans]

If by the good doctor doctor you mean the loco MD who posts here, no,
I've made an effort not to read his stuff. If you mean the Honest
Mathematician who seems to hang out here in bits and pieces, no, I
have him killfiled.

And of course I've heard the charge the evolution kills in various
forms over the years. But I've never heard it attributed to the
"Law" of multiplication of probabilities before this. I've been
plagued with correlated probabilities most of my professional life
and they don't simply multiply -- even when the correlation is
indirect.

[*Hemidactylus*]

On 02/14/2012 10:30 PM, Paul J Gans wrote:

[snip]

> If by the good doctor doctor you mean the loco MD who posts here, no,
> I've made an effort not to read his stuff. If you mean the Honest
> Mathematician who seems to hang out here in bits and pieces, no, I
> have him killfiled.

Peter is one of us now. He might have been overtaken by the "hershey"
mind-worm.

He is definitely an evolutionist. And Peter is using Linux. Not sure
Peter is a big fan of doctor doctor.

[Richard Norman]

On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 03:30:16 +0000 (UTC), Paul J Gans

The doctor doctor is, indeed, the loco MD PhD and I presented his
position in quite a simple and direct way. He is quite adamant about
that statement.

[Paul J Gans]

Richard Norman <r_s_n...@comcast.net> wrote:
>On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 03:30:16 +0000 (UTC), Paul J Gans
><gan...@panix.com> wrote:

>>Richard Norman <r_s_n...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 02:01:44 +0000 (UTC), Paul J Gans
>>><gan...@panix.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>Richard Norman <r_s_n...@comcast.net> wrote:

[snippage]

>>>>>That is a lot better than saying it is the result of evolutionists
>>>>>ignorant of the law of multiplcation of probabilities forcing it on
>>>>>the medical profession and causing suffering and death to millions.
>>>>
>>>>Nominated for the Talk Origins Amazing Sentence of the Day Award.
>>>>
>>>>I love this group!
>>
>>>Are you not aware of the good doctor doctor who has said exactly that
>>>perhaps a few hundred times, now?
>>
>>If by the good doctor doctor you mean the loco MD who posts here, no,
>>I've made an effort not to read his stuff. If you mean the Honest
>>Mathematician who seems to hang out here in bits and pieces, no, I
>>have him killfiled.
>>
>>And of course I've heard the charge the evolution kills in various
>>forms over the years. But I've never heard it attributed to the
>>"Law" of multiplication of probabilities before this. I've been
>>plagued with correlated probabilities most of my professional life
>>and they don't simply multiply -- even when the correlation is
>>indirect.

>The doctor doctor is, indeed, the loco MD PhD and I presented his
>position in quite a simple and direct way. He is quite adamant about
>that statement.

Yeah. I gather that. And I understand the pain it generates.
Back a few years the mantra was not probability rules out evolution,
it was the second law of thermodynamics rules out evolution because
life lowers entropy and that can't happen.

Luckily we've not seen too much of that lately.

[Mark Isaak]

On 2/14/12 5:51 PM, *Hemidactylus* wrote:
> On 02/14/2012 10:38 AM, Plum4u wrote:
>> On 14/02/2012 8:48 AM, *Hemidactylus* wrote:
>>> On 02/13/2012 12:36 PM, AGWFacts wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:29:12 -0500, *Hemidactylus*
>>>> <ecph...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/religion/article/Professor-says-evolution-unpopular-in-Muslim-world-3229411.php
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The Muslim world has not evolved, yes.
>>>
>>> The one Muslim guy I hang out with drinks vodka, so I'm not sure.
>>> Generalizations do suck.
>>>
>>
>> That's not a real Muslim. Real Muslims stay away from such things.
>>
>> O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and
>> (divination by) arrows, are an abomination, Of Satan’s handiwork: Eschew
>> such (abomination) that ye may prosper. (Al Maida; 5:90)
>>
> Do Muslims need to adhere strictly to every nook and cranny of the Koran
> or Hadith to be Muslims? Put a different way, could there be a Muslim
> for of Unitarianism, a more relaxed and liberal version of the faith?
> Could an American Muslim football fan kick back with his buddies and
> crack open a beer and still be a Muslim? I imagine Muslims in America
> are far less constrained about exploring the secular side of life and
> this might cause some inner and external tension for them, but it also
> makes me wonder if Islam could be a living religion capable of adjusting
> to the shifts of the places it finds itself in. Why would making
> accommodations to science and the secular world be considered apostasy?

Islam is a lot like Protestant Christianity in that there is no ruling
body to decide who is and is not part of the religion. There is a book
setting forth certain rules and ideas (albeit a great many more rules,
in my impression, than Christians have), but no expectation that
everyone will follow all the rules all the time, and no indication for
where to draw a line for how loose with the rules one must be before
disqualification. My own opinion is that anyone sincerely calling him-
or herself a Muslim is a Muslim, end of discussion.

The most problematic rule of Islam for westerners, I gather, is a
prohibition against charging interest on debts.

> I know there must be some wildlife biology going on in parts of the
> Muslim world, such as Oman with loggerhead sea turtles. Could Muslim
> biologists look at turtles as fitting into a biologically derived
> hierarchy, yet still keep their faith as Muslims in some theistic
> evolutionary sense?

I suspect theistic evolution is easier for a Muslim than for a
Christian. There is already a tradition in Islam that the six days of
creation where 1000-year days, and it is no big step from there to call
them metaphorical days of no particular length. I suspect that Islamic
anti-evolution sentiments (which are by no means universal, and probably
not even close to majority) are really just the anti-anything-Western
sentiments widespread in the Middle East.

--
Mark Isaak eciton (at) curioustaxonomy (dot) net
"It is certain, from experience, that the smallest grain of natural
honesty and benevolence has more effect on men's conduct, than the most
pompous views suggested by theological theories and systems." - D. Hume

[Robert Grumbine]

In article <jhjo5m$itq$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, Mark Isaak wrote:
> On 2/14/12 5:51 PM, *Hemidactylus* wrote:
>> On 02/14/2012 10:38 AM, Plum4u wrote:
>>> On 14/02/2012 8:48 AM, *Hemidactylus* wrote:
>>>> On 02/13/2012 12:36 PM, AGWFacts wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:29:12 -0500, *Hemidactylus*
>>>>> <ecph...@hotmail.com> wrote:

[trim]

> Islam is a lot like Protestant Christianity in that there is no ruling
> body to decide who is and is not part of the religion. There is a book
> setting forth certain rules and ideas (albeit a great many more rules,
> in my impression, than Christians have), but no expectation that
> everyone will follow all the rules all the time, and no indication for
> where to draw a line for how loose with the rules one must be before
> disqualification. My own opinion is that anyone sincerely calling him-
> or herself a Muslim is a Muslim, end of discussion.
>
> The most problematic rule of Islam for westerners, I gather, is a
> prohibition against charging interest on debts.

An issue that Christians had for the first ~1500 years of their religion
as well. They 'got over' it, so we now have 35% interest rates.

[trim]


--
Robert Grumbine http://moregrumbinescience.blogspot.com/ Science blog
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they
would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences

[Jeffrey Turner]

On 2/12/2012 10:47 AM, Ron O wrote:
> On Feb 12, 9:29 am, *Hemidactylus*<ecpho...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/religion/article/Professor-says-evol...
>
> News flash! Evoution unpopular in the US Bible belt.
>
> Years of scientific research indicates that this striking similarity
> between Christians and Muslims may have something to do with the fact
> that the fundies of both religions share the same creation story.

But is it common descent or lateral meme transfer?

--Jeff

[Paul J Gans]

Robert Grumbine <bo...@saltmine.radix.net> wrote:
>In article <jhjo5m$itq$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, Mark Isaak wrote:
>> On 2/14/12 5:51 PM, *Hemidactylus* wrote:
>>> On 02/14/2012 10:38 AM, Plum4u wrote:
>>>> On 14/02/2012 8:48 AM, *Hemidactylus* wrote:
>>>>> On 02/13/2012 12:36 PM, AGWFacts wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:29:12 -0500, *Hemidactylus*
>>>>>> <ecph...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>[trim]

>> Islam is a lot like Protestant Christianity in that there is no ruling
>> body to decide who is and is not part of the religion. There is a book
>> setting forth certain rules and ideas (albeit a great many more rules,
>> in my impression, than Christians have), but no expectation that
>> everyone will follow all the rules all the time, and no indication for
>> where to draw a line for how loose with the rules one must be before
>> disqualification. My own opinion is that anyone sincerely calling him-
>> or herself a Muslim is a Muslim, end of discussion.
>>
>> The most problematic rule of Islam for westerners, I gather, is a
>> prohibition against charging interest on debts.

> An issue that Christians had for the first ~1500 years of their religion
>as well. They 'got over' it, so we now have 35% interest rates.

We had anti-usury laws in the US until the Carter inflation caused
them to be repealed. They were never re-instated.

[Ron O]

In genetics we call it horizontal transfer instead of vertical
transmission.

Ron Okimoto