evolution
Bill Murray
Evolution does not prove there is no God.
squealpiggy
> God created evolution. Creation is evolution. God can do anything.
> Evolution does not prove there is no God.
Nobody ever said it does. Theistic evolution is a stance which is
fairly well accepted among scientists who are religious. Personally I
don't buy it, I don't believe in a personal god but my reasons for
reaching such a conclusion has nothing to do with evolution.
I don't think you would find many people using Talk Origins who would
suggest that "evolution explains the diversity and distribution of
life on earth, ergo there is no God". Evolution simply doesn't answer
that sort of question.
Frank J
> Evolution does not prove there is no God.
Yes, but you, John Belushi and Gilda Radner will all come back to
Saturday Night Live before the anti-evolution activists admit that. ;-)
DougC
> Evolution does not prove there is no God.
No true scientist ever said that it did. Scientists deal in real
facts. God is supernatural, thus beyond logical disproof.
Notice that God is also out of reach of proof. "Belief" and "must be"
and emotion do not count as proof, no matter how loudly proclaimed.
Doug Chandler
�
Free Lunch
<anthon...@gmail.com> wrote in talk.origins:
>On Jul 5, 10:49 am, billmurra...@msn.com (Bill Murray) wrote:
>> God created evolution. Creation is evolution. God can do anything.
>> Evolution does not prove there is no God.
>
>Nobody ever said it does.
Anti-evolution theistic zealots, particularly the YEC kind have said
exactly that. Of course that doesn't make them correct in their claims,
but they do make them.
>Theistic evolution is a stance which is
>fairly well accepted among scientists who are religious.
Yes, a stance that is roundly condemned by YECs because it accepts the
obvious reality of the evidence rather than the ignorant interpretation
of a Young Earth.
>Personally I
>don't buy it, I don't believe in a personal god but my reasons for
>reaching such a conclusion has nothing to do with evolution.
No problem.
>I don't think you would find many people using Talk Origins who would
>suggest that "evolution explains the diversity and distribution of
>life on earth, ergo there is no God". Evolution simply doesn't answer
>that sort of question.
Correct, it doesn't have anything to say about God, but that doesn't
stop certain religious zealots from falsely claiming otherwise.
Thurisaz the Einherjer
> God created evolution.
Which one?
> Creation is evolution.
Evolution can work from a creation or scientific beginning, but it "is" not
creation.
> God can do anything.
Which one?
And that said, evidence please.
> Evolution does not prove there is no God.
And it doesn't try to. Only morontheists claim that it tries because they
don't know shit about the real thing.
--
Romans 2:24 revised:
"For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you
cretinists, as it is written on aig."
My personal judgment of monotheism: http://www.carcosa.de/nojebus
Cory Albrecht
> God created evolution. Creation is evolution. God can do anything.
> Evolution does not prove there is no God.
First, science doesn't deal with "proof", science deals with evidence.
Second, the Theory of Evolution is a distinct thing from the facts of
evolution.
Third, the Theory of Evolution does not comment one way (existence) or
the other (non-existence) on God as it is a framework for explaining
observations here in the natural world, not the supernatural.
squealpiggy
> On Sat, 5 Jul 2008 08:01:50 -0700 (PDT), squealpiggy
You're right on all counts of course, I was responding to the
accusatory tone of the original message which was implying that those
who accept evolution (by virtue of, I don't know, not living under a
rock) therefore conclude that there is no God.
I'm not sure the Young Earth Creation crowd even have their own
opinions. Most of their drivel is recycled.
Ye Old One
Stupid troll!
--
Bob.
Mark VandeWettering
> God created evolution. Creation is evolution. God can do anything.
> Evolution does not prove there is no God.
You're right.
It's the problem of evil that proves there is no God.
Mark
*Hemidactylus*
> Evolution does not prove there is no God.
>
But careful reading of the Bible does start the process of finding
cracks in the foundations of Judeo-Christian thought. Scholars of the
Bible have developed critical literary analysis methods that make one
wonder who wrote the bible, when and why. Once critical analysis of
the bible via literary analysis, biblical archaeology, comparative
mythology, and historical contextualization makes one realize it was
nothing more than an early attempt at historical fiction the reasons
for actually believing in the God of the Elohist or Jahwist evaporate
and then one can realize how powerful evolution via selection and
drift are as an explanation of how we got here and also how we
developed mythical explanations of reality in the past.
If history had happened a little differently you might be looking to
Mithra or Muhammad. Your belief in God is contingent upon the
historical processes that affected Christendom and your own ancestors.
Constantine and Charles the Hammer Martel played a major role in
European history. Yet if my ancestors lived in the Balkans instead of
Scandanavia, I might have turned out differently. I could have been
Orthodox Christian or Muslim. The field of the Black Birds resonates
in the historical memory of every Serb, for good reason as it points
to the eventual impact of Islam in the region and the fact that Kosovo
is now different than they would have liked it to be.
*Hemidactylus*
> On 2008-07-05, Bill Murray <billmurra...@msn.com> wrote:
>
> > God created evolution. Creation is evolution. God can do anything.
> > Evolution does not prove there is no God.
>
> You're right.
>
> It's the problem of evil that proves there is no God.
>
of darkness (Ahriman) who are battling it out until the time of the
Saoshyant's arrival. Thus spake Zarathustra. Or maybe the Zurvanists
are right...Space-Time started it all and gave rise to Ahura Mazda and
Ahriman.
Eventually Ahriman would travel to Eden to coax Eve to eat the fruit
and then later would get God to mistreat Job and then would tempt
Christ. Didn't some magi travel to find Jesus during the miracle
birth? Was Eve ever near any lakes before her immaculate conception?
Earle Jones
billmu...@msn.com (Bill Murray) wrote:
> God created evolution. Creation is evolution. God can do anything.
> Evolution does not prove there is no God.
*
Actually, Bill, evolution doesn't 'prove' anything. What it does is
'explain' the diversity of life forms that we observe.
And it has absolutely nothing to say, one way or the other, about any
'God'.
I suspect that is what frustrates you: evolution ignores 'God'. To
evolution, 'God' is irrelevant.
earle
*
"Science teaches us to observe and then to explain our observations.
The attempt to explain an observation is called a theory. Theories
are discussed, modified, sometimes thrown out for better theories, and
strengthened by finding evidence that corroborates them.
I think what frustrates Christians like yourself is that science has
nothing to say about God. The theory of evolution, which has been the
best explanation of our observations for the past 150 years, does not
mention God.
The subject of God just doesn't come up. To science in general, and to
evolution in particular, God is irrelevant. No one has made an
observation yet that requires a God to explain it. There are many things
we do not yet know. But that does not mean that some God is responsible.
Years ago, God was thought to be the cause of volcanoes and earthquakes
and even thunder and lightning -- he was obviously displeased with us.
Today, we know better. We have better explanations for those
phenomena than 'God is mad at us'."
--M. E. Smith-Slattery
er...@swva.net
>
> > God created evolution. Creation is evolution. God can do anything.
> > Evolution does not prove there is no God.
>
> You're right.
>
> It's the problem of evil that proves there is no God.
>
> Mark
I would have thought that it only gives evidence that any monotheistic
god does not necessarily meet our criteria of "good."
Eric Root
Bill Murray
there so many Bibles? It seems man at certain times in history has made
alterations to please or support whatever was the most political agenda
at the time.
*Hemidactylus*
>
> Was Eve ever near any lakes before her immaculate conception?
>
*Hemidactylus*
given God's Goodness, Omniscience and Omnipotence, the existence of
Satan becomes a problem. Satan seems to have been one of the sons of
God, actually his prosecuting attorney or adversary, before he got a
little impatient and disrespectful and cast down from the heavens. Yet
this eventuality in the history of Satan points to a fundamental flaw
in creation or God's planning process. Someone in his own entourage
was flawed. Did God check Satan's credentials thoroughly before hiring
him?
That some lowly snake was able to tempt Eve so early in the history of
humankind and result in the original sin points to a design flaw too.
Creation becomes like a sea monkey colony that goes awry or a botched
junior high science fair project. At some point God gets really ticked
at how flawed his project has become and decides to trash it
altogether with a deluge only to start from scratch with Noah. Yet
this new start went awry with Ham and one can see through history that
God's programming skiils fall far short of Omnipotence, Omniscience
and/or Benevolence. The human lumbar region and appendix could have
benefitted from a more careful planning process.
Then he picks amongst the nations one group out of many in the Levant
and upon putting the Egyptians through hell in his rescue operation,
as these folks kinda got themselves into a predicament due to some
brothers selling one of their own only to meet up with him later in
Egypt, God gives these people a long list of rules that nobody could
ever abide by and tells them to go kill some heathen in Canaan. He
continues insisting on their faithfulness, like a paranoid jilted
lover and get pissed when they go a whorin after other gods. He picks
a bandit chieftan to carve a nation out of the mess and promises him
that his seed will reign eternal, yet reneges when it is obvious that
flawed humans cannot follow his obsessive-compulsive edicts, so he
employs Assyrians and evil Babylonians to do his dirty work. Later he
employs some Romans and allows them to get smitten by an odd variant
of the belief system he saddled the Jews with so they can go on and
spread the word of peace via the sword. He eventually does the same
with some Arab guy and sits back and enjoys the carnage that ensues as
followers of his divine guidance slaughter each other. He then
provides them with nuclear technology, since swords and catapults no
longer meet his needs for entertainment.
What exactly is the take home message in all this?
*Hemidactylus*
with a certain agenda in mind. For instance the political regions of
Israel and Judah each contributed their own biases into the Bible.
Deuteronomy was "discovered" during the reign of Josiah. And so on.
Vend
> On 2008-07-05, Bill Murray <billmurra...@msn.com> wrote:
>
> > God created evolution. Creation is evolution. God can do anything.
> > Evolution does not prove there is no God.
>
> You're right.
>
> It's the problem of evil that proves there is no God.
No, the problem of evil proves that there is no omnipotent and
omnibenevolent god.
Ray Martinez
> God created evolution. Creation is evolution. God can do anything.
> Evolution does not prove there is no God.
This belief shows the degree of ignorance that this person is
suffering since "created" and "evolution" are antonyms.
Created means God is directly involved----supernaturally.
Evolution means God is not involved----He is totally absent----
biological reality shows no signs or evidence of Divine power, Mind or
Intelligence: nature was and is produced naturally by material
processes that are not guided or controlled by Mind or His power.
These are very simple and anti-complex facts that are not disputed. Of
course Bill Murray is either very stupid or intentionally
misrepresenting attempting to sway dumb Christians into accepting
evolution which is overtly pro-Atheism. There really is no way of
knowing which is true, that is, if Murray is dumb or intentionally
lying.
Ray
*Hemidactylus*
source for Noah's flood, I think he may be wiser than you. Or at least
he has ensnared you in his wise ass trap, which isn't too diificult
apparently. Be thankful you weren't born an insect descendant from
Noah's bug collection.
I wonder if Noah ever lived in a van down by the river and how he was
able to get da bears onto da ark without Ditka's help.
The great theologian Father Guido Sarducci may have spoke upon this in
a sermon.
chris thompson
chris thompson
Tiny Bulcher
Those who would create gods are first made mad?
Bob Casanova
talk.origins, posted by billmu...@msn.com (Bill Murray):
>God created evolution.
Possibly; there's no evidence either way.
> Creation is evolution.
This is a bit vague.
> God can do anything.
According to some. Again, there's no evidence either way.
>Evolution does not prove there is no God.
Only fundamentalist religious fanatics claim it would; no
rational individual who understands evolution would make
such a claim.
--
Bob C.
"Evidence confirming an observation is
evidence that the observation is wrong."
- McNameless
Bob Casanova
talk.origins, posted by Ye Old One <use...@mcsuk.net>:
Maybe; maybe not. Let's see how/if he responds to the
answers he gets.
Bob Casanova
appeared in talk.origins, posted by Ray Martinez
<pyram...@yahoo.com>:
>On Jul 5, 7:49 am, billmurra...@msn.com (Bill Murray) wrote:
>> God created evolution. Creation is evolution. God can do anything.
>> Evolution does not prove there is no God.
>
>This belief shows the degree of ignorance that this person is
>suffering since "created" and "evolution" are antonyms.
Wrong again, Ray; don't you ever tire of being so
consistently wrong?
"Created" and "abiogenetically arose" are somewhat closer to
being antonyms; evolution only refers to the changes in
already-existing organisms, and thus would be appropriate
for either.
<snip more RayDrool>
Louann Miller
@baytvnwsxa002.msntv.msn.com:
> God created evolution. Creation is evolution. God can do anything.
> Evolution does not prove there is no God.
One, congratulations on re-inventing theistic evolution. Two, I've hated
almost every film you've ever been in except "Groundhog Day."
conrad
> God created evolution. Creation is evolution. God can do anything.
> Evolution does not prove there is no God.
Evolution does not invoke the supernatural.
But your unstated assumption is that "God"
exists. Can you substantiate that claim?
If not, then what value does it have in the
realm of science?
--
conrad
squealpiggy
> billmurra...@msn.com (Bill Murray) wrote in news:25784-486F8A04-10960
How can you hate Ghostbusters?!
Wombat
>
> - Show quoted text -
Did you mean Gilgamesh?
Wombat
*Hemidactylus*
>
No. Mr. Murray had spelled it Gildamesh here:
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/073a649d36fe65f6?hl=en
This may have been an intentional allusion to Gilda Radner who was a
cast member on Saturday Night Live and married to Gene Wilder.
Walter Bushell
<756f9338-4397-4487...@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
Wombat <tri...@multiweb.nl> wrote:
> > That on another thread Mr. Murray has speculated Gildamesh as the
> > source for Noah's flood, I think he may be wiser than you. Or at least
> > he has ensnared you in his wise ass trap, which isn't too diificult
> > apparently. Be thankful you weren't born an insect descendant from
> > Noah's bug collection.
> >
> > I wonder if Noah ever lived in a van down by the river and how he was
> > able to get da bears onto da ark without Ditka's help.
> >
> > The great theologian Father Guido Sarducci may have spoke upon this in
> > a sermon.- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Did you mean Gilgamesh?
>
> Wombat
How can you misspell someone's name who lived before alphabets were
invented?
--
What is done in the heat of battle is (normatively) judged
by different standards than what is leisurely planned in
comfortable conference rooms.
*Hemidactylus*
Funny how his brother Brian Doyle Murray tended to turn up in his
movies.
Free Lunch
<ecph...@hotmail.com> wrote in talk.origins:
>On Jul 5, 9:04 pm, Louann Miller <louan...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> billmurra...@msn.com (Bill Murray) wrote in news:25784-486F8A04-10960
>> @baytvnwsxa002.msntv.msn.com:
>>
>> > God created evolution. Creation is evolution. God can do anything.
>> > Evolution does not prove there is no God.
>>
>> One, congratulations on re-inventing theistic evolution. Two, I've hated
>> almost every film you've ever been in except "Groundhog Day."
>>
>He was a great hunter of gophers, licensed to kill them I think.
Great hunter? Wouldn't you actually have to kill one to meet that
definition?
*Hemidactylus*
> On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 06:57:20 -0700 (PDT), "*Hemidactylus*"
>
> >On Jul 5, 9:04 pm, Louann Miller <louan...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> billmurra...@msn.com (Bill Murray) wrote in news:25784-486F8A04-10960
> >> @baytvnwsxa002.msntv.msn.com:
>
> >> > God created evolution. Creation is evolution. God can do anything.
> >> > Evolution does not prove there is no God.
>
> >> One, congratulations on re-inventing theistic evolution. Two, I've hated
> >> almost every film you've ever been in except "Groundhog Day."
>
> >He was a great hunter of gophers, licensed to kill them I think.
>
> Great hunter? Wouldn't you actually have to kill one to meet that
> definition?
>
bravery when retrieving that floating candy bar will go down in the
annals of time.
Free Lunch
<ecph...@hotmail.com> wrote in talk.origins:
Indeed, that's why he was trusted to retrieve the paranormal a few years
later.
[While looking through the IMDB list, I noticed that he was in Tootsie,
I didn't recall him in it at all]
Grandbank
Is it frustrating when you drift soooo close to insight and then just
can't quite get a grip on it?
KP
Woland
And Rushmore?
Earle Jones
<6b9a0271-ca9e-4dfd...@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
"*Hemidactylus*" <ecph...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> and/or Benevolence....
*
This is how George Carlin put it:
"Something is definitely wrong. This is NOT good
work. If this is the best god can do, I am NOT impressed. Results
like these do not belong on the resume of a supreme being. This is
the kind of shit you'd expect from an office temp with a bad
attitude. And just between you and me, in any decently run
universe, this guy would have been out on his all-powerful ass a
long time ago."
--George Carlin
earle
*
Earle Jones
<7ab132b6-e93b-4880...@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
Vend <ven...@virgilio.it> wrote:
*
If he is not omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent, then he is not
God. Epicurus knew this in about 300 BCE.
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?"
--Epicurus (341 - 270 BCE)
earle
*
Earle Jones
<472d774b-9e94-4130...@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com>,
Ray Martinez <pyram...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jul 5, 7:49 am, billmurra...@msn.com (Bill Murray) wrote:
> > God created evolution. Creation is evolution. God can do anything.
> > Evolution does not prove there is no God.
>
> This belief shows the degree of ignorance that this person is
> suffering since "created" and "evolution" are antonyms.
>
> Created means God is directly involved----supernaturally.
***
Ray: You believe that God could not have used evolution to
generate the diversity of species we observe today?
Is that right? If so, why not? What are the limitations
on God's power that would prevent him? If you believe that
God is omnipotent, then he could have used anything.
Isn't that right?
***
[clip the rest]
earle
*
BTW, the antonym of 'creation' is 'destruction'.
The antonym of 'evolution' is 'stasis'.
Earle Jones
"Tiny Bulcher" <alyc...@btinternet.com> wrote:
"O senseless man, who cannot possibly make a worm
and yet will make Gods by the dozen!"
--Michel Eyqyem de Montaigne, French essayist (1533-92)
Earle Jones
<82da6292-a650-446c...@m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
conrad <con...@lawyer.com> wrote:
*
It provides humor to scientists!
earle
*
Bob Casanova
in talk.origins, posted by Free Lunch
<lu...@nofreelunch.us>:
Nope, it's the same as "fishing" vs. "catching".
>>Funny how his brother Brian Doyle Murray tended to turn up in his
>>movies.
Bob Casanova
in talk.origins, posted by Louann Miller
<loua...@yahoo.com>:
Hey, "Stripes" was pretty good, too!
(But "Groundhog Day" *is* one of my favorite films.)
Rupert Morrish
> On Jul 5, 10:49 am, billmurra...@msn.com (Bill Murray) wrote:
>> God created evolution. Creation is evolution. God can do anything.
>> Evolution does not prove there is no God.
>
Someone probably did. But he was wrong.
> Theistic evolution is a stance which is
> fairly well accepted among scientists who are religious. Personally I
> don't buy it, I don't believe in a personal god but my reasons for
> reaching such a conclusion has nothing to do with evolution.
>
> I don't think you would find many people using Talk Origins who would
> suggest that "evolution explains the diversity and distribution of
> life on earth, ergo there is no God".
I don't think you would find any, at least amongst the regular posters.
> Evolution simply doesn't answer
> that sort of question.
>
Max
The Life Aquatic and Lost in Translation were good.
Max
Well, Rushmore you can hate because it sucked. The creepy little
whiney boy provided no amusement.
Woland
Philistine.