Plagiarism?

[chris thompson]

If you are on Facebook, you might want to have a look at Carl Zimmer's
Page. Apparently, Chuck Norris lifted an article of Zimmer's _in toto_
and put it on his blog, with no attribution to indicate he (Norris)
was not the author.

Chris

[MG]

Oh, I thought this thread was about Tony Pagano. I wonder what he thinks about Chuck Norris? If he wasn't a fan, maybe he is now...

[Paul J Gans]

Well, if one looks at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_technology

and compares it to

http://scholar.chem.nyu.edu/tekpages/Subjects.html

you'll see entire chunks taken from the one into the other. And my
page has been there since 1997 while the Wiki page is very new.

Pisses me off, especially since the thief left all the literature
references out, which makes the Wiki page rather useless.

--
--- Paul J. Gans

[Ernest Major]

In message <jqegjo$n88$5...@reader1.panix.com>, Paul J Gans
<gan...@panix.com> writes

Then point out at the talk page, or the project page, that the material
breaches WP:PLAGIARISM.
--
alias Ernest Major

[Kleuskes & Moos]

Seconded. Plagiarism is taken _very_ seriously indeed at Wikipedia, since
it's a direct threat to the projects foundations (providing _free_information).
Nevertheless, i've taken a peek at the two pages and, though they share a
common theme and mention many of the same things (which should hardly
surprise anyone), outright plagiarism has so far eluded me.

Would you care to point out some examples?

[Paul J Gans]

I must be a total dunce because I see no way to add anything about
any particular page.

[Paul J Gans]

For example the entry under "magnets" reads:

First reference in the Roman d'Enéas, composed between 1155 and 1160

It happens that this information first appears on my pages since
Kathryn Talarico and I discovered this bit. Seriously. There is
no other place that information could have come from. A reference
would have been nice.

Another example: artesian wells. My sentences have been rewritten
but that's all.

Another example: Mirrors. The first mention of mirrors is by
Alexander Neckham who is quoted as saying ""Take away the lead
which is behind the glass and there will be no image of the one
looking in." A part of my entry is:

"The first mention of "glass" mirrors seems to have been made by
Alexander Neckham about 1180. A.D. Holmes quotes him: "Take away
the lead which is behind the glass and there will be no image of
the one looking in." [Holmes 1952, p 144]"

Another example: rat traps. This too was a discovery of mine.
The wikipedia entry says

"First mention of a rat trap in the medieval romance Yvain, the
Knight of the Lion by Chrétien de Troyes"

You won't find this information anywhere else. Indeed, the Wiki
article on rat traps cites my web page as the only external link.

All I really want is some reference to my work. I have no intention
of having that page changed in any other way.

[chris thompson]

On Jun 3, 4:04 pm, Paul J Gans <gan...@panix.com> wrote:
> Ernest Major <{$t...@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >In message <jqegjo$n8...@reader1.panix.com>, Paul J Gans
> ><gan...@panix.com> writes

> >>chris thompson <chris.linthomp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>If you are on Facebook, you might want to have a look at Carl Zimmer's
> >>>Page. Apparently, Chuck Norris lifted an article of Zimmer's _in toto_
> >>>and put it on his blog, with no attribution to indicate he (Norris)
> >>>was not the author.
>
> >>Well, if one looks at
>
> >>  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_technology
>
> >>and compares it to
>
> >>  http://scholar.chem.nyu.edu/tekpages/Subjects.html
>
> >>you'll see entire chunks taken from the one into the other.  And my
> >>page has been there since 1997 while the Wiki page is very new.
>
> >>Pisses me off, especially since the thief left all the literature
> >>references out, which makes the Wiki page rather useless.
>
> >Then point out at the talk page, or the project page, that the material
> >breaches WP:PLAGIARISM.
>
> I must be a total dunce because I see no way to add anything about
> any particular page.
>
> --
>    --- Paul J. Gans

Above the title, you'll see 2 tabs. One is "Article" which is where
your link sends us. Just to the right, there's a tab "Talk". Once on
the "Talk" page, at the upper right you'll see a tab "New Section",
and that's where your complaint should go.

Chris

[Ernest Major]

In message <jqgfvp$57v$2...@reader1.panix.com>, Paul J Gans

From the Medieval technology page select the Talk tab, and when the Talk
page comes up select the New Section tab (or the Edit tab). This gets
you to the following URL.

<URL:http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Medieval_technology&a
ction=edit&section=new>

Alternatively, the Talk page associates the page with the Technology and
Middle Ages projects. If you follow the links to the respective project
pages, you'll see a Talk tab taking you onwards to the project talk
page. You're probably more likely to get a response at one of the
project talk pages.

See also

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:LEGAL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:PLAGIARISM
--
alias Ernest Major

[marc.t...@wanadoo.fr]

On 3 juin, 22:22, Paul J Gans <gan...@panix.com> wrote:

> Kleuskes & Moos <kleu...@somewhere.else.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Sun, 03 Jun 2012 09:09:44 +0100, Ernest Major wrote:

> >> In message <jqegjo$n8...@reader1.panix.com>, Paul J Gans
> >> <gan...@panix.com> writes

Why not add your references in the text with the corresponding link?

[Ernest Major]

In message
<7bb4d4bf-52b6-42ff...@v9g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>,
marc.t...@wanadoo.fr writes

He could, but adding links to one's own site might be seen as a conflict
of interest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:COI

In this case I would think that policy would not apply, but there's
always the possibility of some hair-triggered editor responding.
--
alias Ernest Major

[monke...@gmail.com]

On Jun 3, 5:08 pm, Ernest Major <{$t...@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message

> <7bb4d4bf-52b6-42ff-8642-9311c2ba4...@v9g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>,
> marc.tess...@wanadoo.fr writes

I think that if there were references it might count as a third party
source. Anyway, someone posted about it. I'm kind of busy but if I get
some free time I'll try and edit that stuff out soon.

[Paul J Gans]

Thanks Chris. I'll try that.

[Walter Bushell]

In article <jqgh21$bbj$1...@reader1.panix.com>,

How do you know there is no earlier reference or one won't be found.
After all just a few years ago they found Archimedes' work under some
monasterie's prayer book or something.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archimedes_Palimpsest>

--
This space unintentionally left blank.

[Paul J Gans]

>> First reference in the Roman d'En??as, composed between 1155 and 1160

>>
>> It happens that this information first appears on my pages since
>> Kathryn Talarico and I discovered this bit. Seriously. There is
>> no other place that information could have come from. A reference
>> would have been nice.
>>
>> Another example: artesian wells. My sentences have been rewritten
>> but that's all.
>>
>> Another example: Mirrors. The first mention of mirrors is by
>> Alexander Neckham who is quoted as saying ""Take away the lead
>> which is behind the glass and there will be no image of the one
>> looking in." A part of my entry is:
>>
>> "The first mention of "glass" mirrors seems to have been made by
>> Alexander Neckham about 1180. A.D. Holmes quotes him: "Take away
>> the lead which is behind the glass and there will be no image of
>> the one looking in." [Holmes 1952, p 144]"
>>
>> Another example: rat traps. This too was a discovery of mine.
>> The wikipedia entry says
>>
>> "First mention of a rat trap in the medieval romance Yvain, the

>> Knight of the Lion by Chr??tien de Troyes"

>>
>> You won't find this information anywhere else. Indeed, the Wiki
>> article on rat traps cites my web page as the only external link.
>>
>> All I really want is some reference to my work. I have no intention
>> of having that page changed in any other way.

>How do you know there is no earlier reference or one won't be found.
>After all just a few years ago they found Archimedes' work under some
>monasterie's prayer book or something.

><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archimedes_Palimpsest>

That's true. However no earlier reference was found then and
none has turned up since.

I am a master of medieval trivia when it comes to technology and
the like. I also have had the honor of discovering that one could
*rent* a set of armor as pointed out by Gawain in one of the Arthurian
stories.

The point that I've stressed is that medieval literature is of value
to those who deal in medieval history, technology, and everyday life.
You can't take what you read at face value, yet folks can't really
mention magnets without knowing what they are.

And yes, I've given talks on this.

[pnyikos]

On Jun 3, 4:22 pm, Paul J Gans <gan...@panix.com> wrote:

> Kleuskes & Moos <kleu...@somewhere.else.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Sun, 03 Jun 2012 09:09:44 +0100, Ernest Major wrote:

> >> In message <jqegjo$n8...@reader1.panix.com>, Paul J Gans
> >> <gan...@panix.com> writes

So why don't you change it? Are you afraid the original writer will
delete all the references you put in? Then you'd really have a
serious case against him.

Are you ignorant of the fact that anyone can change a Wikipedia entry
[except for a small minority of articles]?

Peter Nyikos

[Glenn]

> > First reference in the Roman d'En as, composed between 1155 and 1160

>
> > It happens that this information first appears on my pages since
> > Kathryn Talarico and I discovered this bit. Seriously. There is
> > no other place that information could have come from. A reference
> > would have been nice.
>
> > Another example: artesian wells. My sentences have been rewritten
> > but that's all.
>
> > Another example: Mirrors. The first mention of mirrors is by
> > Alexander Neckham who is quoted as saying ""Take away the lead
> > which is behind the glass and there will be no image of the one
> > looking in." A part of my entry is:
>
> > "The first mention of "glass" mirrors seems to have been made by
> > Alexander Neckham about 1180. A.D. Holmes quotes him: "Take away
> > the lead which is behind the glass and there will be no image of
> > the one looking in." [Holmes 1952, p 144]"
>
> > Another example: rat traps. This too was a discovery of mine.
> > The wikipedia entry says
>
> > "First mention of a rat trap in the medieval romance Yvain, the

> > Knight of the Lion by Chr tien de Troyes"

>
> > You won't find this information anywhere else. Indeed, the Wiki
> > article on rat traps cites my web page as the only external link.
>
> > All I really want is some reference to my work. I have no intention
> > of having that page changed in any other way.
>
> > --
> > --- Paul J. Gans
>
> So why don't you change it?  Are you afraid the original writer will
> delete all the references you put in?  Then you'd really have a
> serious case against him.
>
> Are you ignorant of the fact that anyone can change a Wikipedia entry
> [except for a small minority of articles]?
>

It is doubtful Paul is ignorant of that. Perhaps he wants someone
beside himself to reference the work he claims is his own.