> Bob Casanova <nos...@buzz.off> wrote:
> >On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 16:39:05 +0000 (UTC), the following
> >appeared in talk.origins, posted by Paul J Gans
> ><gan...@panix.com>:
> >>wiki trix <wikit...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>On Apr 13, 10:42 am, "John S. Wilkins" <john.s.wilk...@gmail.com>
> >>>wrote:
> >>>> Me too, and while you're at it, can you ensure that wanker trix gets to > >>>> be nearly 60, in constant pain, unemployed, alone and broke? That way he > >>>> might one day realize what a prick he is.
> >>>I am closer to 57 than 56. I have experienced great emotional pain
> >>>over a five year period fairly recently. I was without income for
> >>>three years, and in a deep depression, and I lost virtually everything
> >>>that I had about six years ago and have worked very hard to regain to
> >>>where I was before that fiasco. Only recently am I now in a good
> >>>state. So lets all get everyone here worked up in a frenzy over
> >>>that... lets hear all the pseudo-sympathy over my personal crisis and
> >>>acknowledge and sympathize with my issues. Like I said... I am sorry
> >>>that you got hurt. But this thread has turned into a steaming pile of
> >>>horse shit. You know it wuss. Get over it... the lot of you.
> >>I am doing something about it. I'm killfiling you.
> >Now you've done it; he posts through Gurgle and thus suffers
> >Killfile Envy, so expect whining about "censorship".
> >--
> >Bob C.
> I guess.
> What bothers me is that I've been here for quite a while. I tend
> to feel rather close to most of the regulars here, even those that
> I've not interaced with very much, but especially those with whom
> I have intereacted with over the years.
> I've known John in person for some years now and consider myself
> lucky to do so.
> John's accident got to me. I've lived a rather good, though not
> luxurious life, have never been out of work, or needed serious
> medical care. My kids are all well-launched with stable jobs and
> good families of their own. The difference between me and John
> isn't skill or intelligence. John's got more of both than I do.
> It is a serious matter of luck, unintended consequences, and
> personal circumstance. I feel for him.
> If that makes me a pile of liberal shit, then that's it. I still
> feel for him. And I know I'm not alone in that here.
On Friday, April 13, 2012 4:17:44 PM UTC+1, wiki trix wrote:
> On Apr 13, 10:42 am, "John S. Wilkins" <john.s.wilk...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Me too, and while you're at it, can you ensure that wanker trix gets to be nearly 60, in constant pain, unemployed, alone and broke? That way he might one day realize what a prick he is.
> I am closer to 57 than 56. I have experienced great emotional pain
> over a five year period fairly recently. I was without income for
> three years, and in a deep depression, and I lost virtually everything
> that I had about six years ago and have worked very hard to regain to
> where I was before that fiasco. Only recently am I now in a good
> state. So lets all get everyone here worked up in a frenzy over
> that... lets hear all the pseudo-sympathy over my personal crisis and
> acknowledge and sympathize with my issues. Like I said... I am sorry
> that you got hurt. But this thread has turned into a steaming pile of
> horse shit. You know it wuss. Get over it... the lot of you.
I'm sorry for your troubles. Depression is detestable; I haven't shared the others.
But if you don't want to read these articles, then don't. I don't read Tony Pagano's epic
"defence" of geocentrism, but do I call it
horseshit? Actually... I should, shouldn't I?
> On Apr 13, 6:03 pm, Mike L <n...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 08:17:44 -0700 (PDT), wiki trix
> > <wikit...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >On Apr 13, 10:42 am, "John S. Wilkins" <john.s.wilk...@gmail.com>
> > >wrote:
> > >> Me too, and while you're at it, can you ensure that wanker trix gets to be nearly 60, in constant pain, unemployed, alone and broke? That way he might one day realize what a prick he is.
> > >I am closer to 57 than 56. I have experienced great emotional pain
> > >over a five year period fairly recently. I was without income for
> > >three years, and in a deep depression, and I lost virtually everything
> > >that I had about six years ago and have worked very hard to regain to
> > >where I was before that fiasco. Only recently am I now in a good
> > >state. So lets all get everyone here worked up in a frenzy over
> > >that... lets hear all the pseudo-sympathy over my personal crisis and
> > >acknowledge and sympathize with my issues. Like I said... I am sorry
> > >that you got hurt. But this thread has turned into a steaming pile of
> > >horse shit. You know it wuss. Get over it... the lot of you.
> > Sounds as though you're the one who needs to get over it. Best to be
> > graceful, even if only in remaining silent.
> I am over it. You can be silent if you wish.
It sounds like you are not over it since you are displaying a negative
reaction towards those who are showing well wishes and support for
Wilkins. Could it be that during your troubles you did not receive
such will wishes and support? Maybe it's because you come across as a
grade-a asshole? Has that thought occured to you?
>>> >On Apr 12, 1:04 pm, Paul J Gans <gan...@panix.com> wrote:
>>> >> In talk.origins John S. Wilkins <j...@wilkins.id.au> wrote:
>>> >> >Mitchell Coffey <mitchell.cof...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> >> On Apr 11, 5:33 am, j...@wilkins.id.au (John S. Wilkins) wrote:
>>> >> >> > I have long said that exercise is dangerous: that 100% of all those I
>>> >> >> > know who are physically active injure themselves. But I never expected
>>> >> >> > that just frigging *walking* could be so problematic and fraught with
>>> >> >> > danger!
>>> >> >> > I was on my way to meet some folk for lunch (Lygon Street, Carlton, a
>>> >> >> > famed Melbourne eating place), when I stepped in a slight depression on
>>> >> >> > the footpath and rolled my left ankle. This happenes a lot to me, since
>>> >> >> > I squashed my left foot in a motorcycle accident 30+ years ago, but I
>>> >> >> > usually recover quickly. This time I didn't.
>>> >> >> > As I fell I heard, and felt, a loud "snap" in my left knee, and by the
>>> >> >> > time I hit the ground I was screaming in agony (worse than the accident
>>> >> >> > above), Lovely bystanders came to my aid and one asked "Should we call
>>> >> >> > an ambulance?" I didn't hesitate for even a millisecond. "Yes!" I gasped
>>> >> >> > in between sobs and screams (I am nothing if not expressive when it
>>> >> >> > comes to pain. If I have to be in it, others must know that I am).
>>> >> >> > So, after five hours of morphine, x-rays and solicitous ER nurses,
>>> >> >> > doctors, paramedics and radiographers, I discover that I have ruputred
>>> >> >> > my anterior and medial cruciate ligaments, and the meniscus (did I get
>>> >> >> > those names right? I can't look it up now, as the morphine is making me
>>> >> >> > very inattentive to detail).
>>> >> >> > Short story: I am now unable to walk for at least six weeks, and
>>> >> >> > probably will never walk properly again. I can look forward to three
>>> >> >> > years of rehab, and possible surgery.
>>> >> >> > This is a perfect outcome to cap off the last 18 months. I expect that
>>> >> >> > my flat will be hit by a falling jet engine soon, and I won't get the
>>> >> >> > five foot scary rabbit first. Thought you all should know why I am going
>>> >> >> > to be very fucking grumpy over the next little while.
>>> >> >> I know what it sounds like when you scream in agony so I certainly
>>> >> >> understand how much this must have hurt. I hope you have health
>>> >> >> insurance, otherwise you're really screwed. I'm saying this because my
>>> >> >> first thought - seriously - was that you could come occupy my son's
>>> >> >> room while you recuperate. It slipped my mind for a moment that we're
>>> >> >> still in the dark ages here.
>>> >> >Thanks, but Australian medical care for the poor and unemployed is
>>> >> >pretty good (I can't say enough good things about the ER staff). As it
>>> >> >happens I do have health insurance for ancillary stuff.
>>> >> >> I suspect you'll get an email from Lorraine, 'cause she likes you even
>>> >> >> more than I do. If there's anything we can do, just ask... OK, reword:
>>> >> >> we'll keep asking you if there's anything we can do, because you won't
>>> >> >> ask.
>>> >> >Tell Lorraine I like her more than I do you too.
>>> >> Now just a minute there. I've only met Lorraine once. Does
>>> >> this mean I'm cut out and stuck with Mitch? Does he even
>>> >> remember when I inhabited his house?...
>>> >You were in my house?
>>> Yup. Left my car there while we went into DC for a Howlerfest.
>>> See what happens when you get old...
>>People will start leaving their cars at my house? When does this
>>windfall begin?
>You live in Brooklyn, right? People don't leave cars at your house
>unless they have bodies in them. People *remove* cars from your >house except when they have bodies in them.
I haven't lived there in several years, but you seem to be fitting
right in.
In article <1d43e428-71ca-4498-b51c-52e56b3bf...@9g2000yqp.googlegroups.com>, Mitchell Coffey wrote:
> On Apr 12, 3:19 am, j...@wilkins.id.au (John S. Wilkins) wrote:
>> AGWFacts <AGWFa...@1800reaklity.com> wrote:
>> > On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 19:33:04 +1000, j...@wilkins.id.au (John S.
>> > Wilkins) wrote:
>> > > I have long said that exercise is dangerous: that 100% of all those I
>> > > know who are physically active injure themselves. But I never expected
>> > > that just frigging *walking* could be so problematic and fraught with
>> > > danger!
>> > > I was on my way to meet some folk for lunch (Lygon Street, Carlton, a
>> > > famed Melbourne eating place), when I stepped in a slight depression on
>> > > the footpath and rolled my left ankle. This happenes a lot to me, since
>> > > I squashed my left foot in a motorcycle accident 30+ years ago, but I
>> > > usually recover quickly. This time I didn't.
>> > > As I fell I heard, and felt, a loud "snap" in my left knee, and by the
>> > > time I hit the ground I was screaming in agony (worse than the accident
>> > > above), Lovely bystanders came to my aid and one asked "Should we call
>> > > an ambulance?" I didn't hesitate for even a millisecond. "Yes!" I gasped
>> > > in between sobs and screams (I am nothing if not expressive when it
>> > > comes to pain. If I have to be in it, others must know that I am).
>> > > So, after five hours of morphine, x-rays and solicitous ER nurses,
>> > > doctors, paramedics and radiographers, I discover that I have ruputred
>> > > my anterior and medial cruciate ligaments, and the meniscus (did I get
>> > > those names right? I can't look it up now, as the morphine is making me
>> > > very inattentive to detail).
>> > > Short story: I am now unable to walk for at least six weeks, and
>> > > probably will never walk properly again. I can look forward to three
>> > > years of rehab, and possible surgery.
>> > > This is a perfect outcome to cap off the last 18 months. I expect that
>> > > my flat will be hit by a falling jet engine soon, and I won't get the
>> > > five foot scary rabbit first. Thought you all should know why I am going
>> > > to be very fucking grumpy over the next little while.
>> > Holy fuck! And I'm sorry for your pain. But I bet the medical
>> > bills will be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. If you are
>> > not wealthy, you're better off demanding they let you die.
>> I'm in Australia, and unemployed. So I pay nothing for world class
>> medical care.
> In the United State, health insurance for the poor, much of the
> unemployed, much of the working class and anyone with a a preexisting
> condition, is ER. This was changing under law, but our Supreme Court
> is about to pull a Bush v. Gore on it.
Keep fingers crossed. The legal arguments alone, according to my
wife's sources, suggest upholding the law. But that requires ignoring
ideologuess on the court in terms of the final decision. Still,
fingers crossed that the law and constitution win out over partisan
ideology.
-- Robert Grumbine http://moregrumbinescience.blogspot.com/ Science blog
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences
> What bothers me is that I've been here for quite a while. I tend
> to feel rather close to most of the regulars here, even those that
> I've not interaced with very much, but especially those with whom
> I have intereacted with over the years.
> I've known John in person for some years now and consider myself
> lucky to do so.
> John's accident got to me. I've lived a rather good, though not
> luxurious life, have never been out of work, or needed serious
> medical care. My kids are all well-launched with stable jobs and
> good families of their own. The difference between me and John
> isn't skill or intelligence. John's got more of both than I do.
> It is a serious matter of luck, unintended consequences, and
> personal circumstance. I feel for him.
> If that makes me a pile of liberal shit, then that's it. I still
> feel for him. And I know I'm not alone in that here.
Indeed you're not.
It's (the shifts in what constitutes 'conservative' in the US) starting to remind me of Huck Finn's great scene regarding Jim. He anguishes about whether he should, as a good Christian, as he's been told/raised to believe all his life, turn Jim in as an escaped slave. Or if he should help him escape and be damned eternally. He chooses damnation.
If caring about the pain and suffering of my fellow humans makes me
a pile of liberal shit, so be it. Empathy is part of what makes us
human.
-- Robert Grumbine http://moregrumbinescience.blogspot.com/ Science blog
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences
In article <jmaj3e$8r...@reader1.panix.com>, Paul J Gans wrote:
[trim]
> So I've decided to pack it in at the end of this academic year. That
> will mark 50 years at NYU. I think that's enough to call it a career.
> One of the things I expect to do with my newly found free time is to
> spend a bit of it in places like Washington seeing you and Bob.
Vickie and I look forward to it. She asks about you from time to
time.
-- Robert Grumbine http://moregrumbinescience.blogspot.com/ Science blog
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences
>>>> After enough morphine Frank the Bunny makes the obligatory appearance to
>>>> let you you you must save the world. Just remember to shoot him in the
>>>> eye when the time comes. You're probably in the mood for that.
>>> I'll shoot him first and *then* save the world. Fucking bunnies. [I was
>>> most aligned with Anyanka the Vengeance Demon in Buffy: I too hate
>>> bunnies]
>>> Thanks to all for the kind thoughts.
>> Add mine, too. I've just seen your original message quoted upthread.
>> It sounds absolutely foul: I wonder if you have a case for cheering
>> yourself up a bit by suing the council.
> It would fail. There are hundreds of thousands of these depressions in
> the footpaths around Melbourne. I can hardly say I didn't expect them.
Merz is down that way. Are you guys gonna meet up?
In article <d21c0ae4-8689-44c6-af9e-b47055acc...@9g2000yqp.googlegroups.com>, Mitchell Coffey wrote:
> On Apr 13, 12:31 pm, Paul J Gans <gan...@panix.com> wrote:
>> In talk.origins Mitchell Coffey <mitchell.cof...@gmail.com> wrote:
[trim]
> The upside is the kids are basically self-winding at this point, and
> to a limited extent self-financing (e.g., Nick and one of his best
> friends, beginning last year, was *asked* to take a paying job
> teaching acting classes to younger High School and Middle School
> kids). When Amelia was in China last Summer she realized she had a
> couple of weeks free in August, so she looked up Craig's List from
> Beijing and arranged, without mentioning to us, to help with the
> toddler & infant of a young academic couple not far from where we
> live, so that they could hurry up and finish some papers on ancient
> Middle Eastern languages, so they'd be able to hurry up to teach at
> Columbia in September.
Brag, brag, brag. :-)
> So, there we were, Lorraine and I a year ago suddenly had this odd
> feeling, which we eventually realized was that we actually had time on
> our hands! After twenty years it's eerie. We're now tired only part of
> the time. We've started dating again. We entertain friends (we started
> a tradition of having Bob and his wife come over and follow the
> returns with us in the Republican primaries; we call these events
> "Loon Watches."
And enjoyed them very much. That's why we were sorry to see Santorum
drop out. We'll have to do some redesign, or something. Or, perhaps,
gather energy for convention-to-election span ideas.
> Bob and Vicky also attended our annual Humanist Seder
> this year; so now they know exactly how the Jewish people have
> consistently celebrated their greatest holiday for 3,000 years.)
Also enjoyed ourselves very much.
> [*] N.B: "We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the
> sense, and to the extent, that we respect his theory that his wife is
> beautiful and his children smart."
> -- H.L. Mencken
Miss Manners commented that all brides and babies are, by definition,
beautiful.
I really should pull out my copy of Mencken, which has been unread.
Doubly so since I'm in his old back yard.
-- Robert Grumbine http://moregrumbinescience.blogspot.com/ Science blog
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences
> I have long said that exercise is dangerous: that 100% of all those I
> know who are physically active injure themselves. But I never expected
> that just frigging *walking* could be so problematic and fraught with
> danger!
> I was on my way to meet some folk for lunch (Lygon Street, Carlton, a
> famed Melbourne eating place), when I stepped in a slight depression on
> the footpath and rolled my left ankle. This happenes a lot to me, since
> I squashed my left foot in a motorcycle accident 30+ years ago, but I
> usually recover quickly. This time I didn't.
> As I fell I heard, and felt, a loud "snap" in my left knee, and by the
> time I hit the ground I was screaming in agony (worse than the accident
> above), Lovely bystanders came to my aid and one asked "Should we call
> an ambulance?" I didn't hesitate for even a millisecond. "Yes!" I gasped
> in between sobs and screams (I am nothing if not expressive when it
> comes to pain. If I have to be in it, others must know that I am).
> So, after five hours of morphine, x-rays and solicitous ER nurses,
> doctors, paramedics and radiographers, I discover that I have ruputred
> my anterior and medial cruciate ligaments, and the meniscus (did I get
> those names right? I can't look it up now, as the morphine is making me
> very inattentive to detail).
> Short story: I am now unable to walk for at least six weeks, and
> probably will never walk properly again. I can look forward to three
> years of rehab, and possible surgery.
> This is a perfect outcome to cap off the last 18 months. I expect that
> my flat will be hit by a falling jet engine soon, and I won't get the
> five foot scary rabbit first. Thought you all should know why I am going
> to be very fucking grumpy over the next little while.
> --
> John S. Wilkins, Associate, Philosophy, University of Sydneyhttp://evolvingthoughts.net > But al be that he was a philosophre,
> Yet hadde he but litel gold in cofre
Sorry to hear about you knee distress. I had a minor knee dislocation
and I whimpered about for three weeks and was also depressed. I can't
imagine the pain and psychic distress you are having but I sincerely
hope you return to good walking health. Best wishes for a much less
stressful future.
>Bob Casanova <nos...@buzz.off> wrote:
>>On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 16:39:05 +0000 (UTC), the following
>>appeared in talk.origins, posted by Paul J Gans
>><gan...@panix.com>:
>>>wiki trix <wikit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>On Apr 13, 10:42 am, "John S. Wilkins" <john.s.wilk...@gmail.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>> Me too, and while you're at it, can you ensure that wanker trix gets to be nearly 60, in constant pain, unemployed, alone and broke? That way he might one day realize what a prick he is.
>>>>I am closer to 57 than 56. I have experienced great emotional pain
>>>>over a five year period fairly recently. I was without income for
>>>>three years, and in a deep depression, and I lost virtually everything
>>>>that I had about six years ago and have worked very hard to regain to
>>>>where I was before that fiasco. Only recently am I now in a good
>>>>state. So lets all get everyone here worked up in a frenzy over
>>>>that... lets hear all the pseudo-sympathy over my personal crisis and
>>>>acknowledge and sympathize with my issues. Like I said... I am sorry
>>>>that you got hurt. But this thread has turned into a steaming pile of
>>>>horse shit. You know it wuss. Get over it... the lot of you.
>>>I am doing something about it. I'm killfiling you.
>>Now you've done it; he posts through Gurgle and thus suffers
>>Killfile Envy, so expect whining about "censorship".
>I guess.
>What bothers me is that I've been here for quite a while. I tend
>to feel rather close to most of the regulars here, even those that
>I've not interaced with very much, but especially those with whom
>I have intereacted with over the years.
>I've known John in person for some years now and consider myself
>lucky to do so.
>John's accident got to me. I've lived a rather good, though not
>luxurious life, have never been out of work, or needed serious
>medical care. My kids are all well-launched with stable jobs and
>good families of their own. The difference between me and John
>isn't skill or intelligence. John's got more of both than I do.
>It is a serious matter of luck, unintended consequences, and
>personal circumstance. I feel for him.
>If that makes me a pile of liberal shit, then that's it. I still
>feel for him. And I know I'm not alone in that here.
Couldn't have phrased it better myself, although I don't see
how friendship and empathy are uniquely liberal traits. And
almost no one is either "pure" liberal or "pure"
conservative. Most who aren't one-dimensional personalities
are a mix of traits; I certainly am.
But wiki needs to learn the fine art of ignoring that which
doesn't interest him.
--
Bob C.
"Evidence confirming an observation is
evidence that the observation is wrong."
- McNameless
> In talk.origins Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:
> >In article <jm72i7$fj...@reader1.panix.com>,
> > Paul J Gans <gan...@panix.com> wrote:
> >> In talk.origins Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:
> >> >In article <1kiej18.qib1hm1qureyoN%j...@wilkins.id.au>,
> >> > j...@wilkins.id.au (John S. Wilkins) wrote:
> >> >> I have long said that exercise is dangerous: that 100% of all those I
> >> >> know who are physically active injure themselves. But I never expected
> >> >> that just frigging *walking* could be so problematic and fraught with
> >> >> danger!
> >> >> I was on my way to meet some folk for lunch (Lygon Street, Carlton, a
> >> >> famed Melbourne eating place), when I stepped in a slight depression on
> >> >> the footpath and rolled my left ankle. This happenes a lot to me, since
> >> >> I squashed my left foot in a motorcycle accident 30+ years ago, but I
> >> >> usually recover quickly. This time I didn't.
> >> >> As I fell I heard, and felt, a loud "snap" in my left knee, and by the
> >> >> time I hit the ground I was screaming in agony (worse than the accident
> >> >> above), Lovely bystanders came to my aid and one asked "Should we call
> >> >> an ambulance?" I didn't hesitate for even a millisecond. "Yes!" I gasped
> >> >> in between sobs and screams (I am nothing if not expressive when it
> >> >> comes to pain. If I have to be in it, others must know that I am).
> >> >> So, after five hours of morphine, x-rays and solicitous ER nurses,
> >> >> doctors, paramedics and radiographers, I discover that I have ruputred
> >> >> my anterior and medial cruciate ligaments, and the meniscus (did I get
> >> >> those names right? I can't look it up now, as the morphine is making me
> >> >> very inattentive to detail).
> >> >> Short story: I am now unable to walk for at least six weeks, and
> >> >> probably will never walk properly again. I can look forward to three
> >> >> years of rehab, and possible surgery.
> >> >> This is a perfect outcome to cap off the last 18 months. I expect that
> >> >> my flat will be hit by a falling jet engine soon, and I won't get the
> >> >> five foot scary rabbit first. Thought you all should know why I am going
> >> >> to be very fucking grumpy over the next little while.
> >> >Oh, noes! As a preincarnate of yours, I'm due for the same fate in my > >> >future!
> >> Yeah, but you'll get ticketed for blocking the sidewalk...
> >Not (for this instance, if he didn't, because according to him "I" am > >going to experience his life in a future incarnation.
> Isn't that a copyright violation?
No just the way the Universe works. He has stipulated are all his preincarnations, so whatever happens to him is going to happen to us. How can I argue against such a urbane and sophisticated philosopher.
> On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 17:11:30 +0000 (UTC), Paul J Gans
> <gan...@panix.com> wrote:
> >In talk.origins Richard Norman <r_s_nor...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 02:13:57 +1000, j...@wilkins.id.au (John S.
> >>Wilkins) wrote:
> >>>Richard Norman <r_s_nor...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>>> And I should add that I
> >>>> am looking more kindly at the notion of emergence as an explanation
> >>>> rather than a process or mechanism -- I think that is your position.
> >>>> You still have power in this world!
> >>>It doesn't pay, though...
> >>>My point about emergence is that it is an epistemic property not a
> >>>causal/ontological one.
> >>I think that is what I was trying to say -- minus the technical
> >>jargon.
> >>Whatever else, the world is the world and it does what it does for
> >>whatever reason. Had we been smart enough to collect the proper data
> >>and do the calculations, we could have computed that you would take
> >>that spill. Whether you could have then done something about it is
> >>another problematical question.
> >Are you implying that there is "free won't"?
> I always found that won't is quite expensive.
Yes, it has been determined that exerting won't power depletes brain glucose and makes it harder to exert it in the future or against other undesired behaviors.
> In talk.origins Richard Norman <r_s_nor...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 17:11:30 +0000 (UTC), Paul J Gans
> ><gan...@panix.com> wrote:
> >>In talk.origins Richard Norman <r_s_nor...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>>On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 02:13:57 +1000, j...@wilkins.id.au (John S.
> >>>Wilkins) wrote:
> >>>>Richard Norman <r_s_nor...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>>>> And I should add that I
> >>>>> am looking more kindly at the notion of emergence as an explanation
> >>>>> rather than a process or mechanism -- I think that is your position.
> >>>>> You still have power in this world!
> >>>>It doesn't pay, though...
> >>>>My point about emergence is that it is an epistemic property not a
> >>>>causal/ontological one.
> >>>I think that is what I was trying to say -- minus the technical
> >>>jargon.
> >>>Whatever else, the world is the world and it does what it does for
> >>>whatever reason. Had we been smart enough to collect the proper data
> >>>and do the calculations, we could have computed that you would take
> >>>that spill. Whether you could have then done something about it is
> >>>another problematical question.
> >>Are you implying that there is "free won't"?
> >I always found that won't is quite expensive.
> Now we are getting somewhere. An asymmetry in the universe of choice
> has been discovered.
Let's see how the group spins this. Perhaps we can extract some color or charm, or even beauty.
> wiki trix <wikit...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Apr 12, 8:13 pm, Mark Isaak <eci...@curioustaxonomyNOSPAM.net>
> >wrote:
> >> On 4/11/12 3:34 PM, John Stockwell wrote:
> >> > On Wednesday, April 11, 2012 3:33:04 AM UTC-6, John S. Wilkins wrote:
> >> >> I have long said that exercise is dangerous: that 100% of all those I
> >> >> know who are physically active injure themselves. But I never expected
> >> >> that just frigging *walking* could be so problematic and fraught with
> >> >> danger!
> >> >> I was on my way to meet some folk for lunch (Lygon Street, Carlton, a
> >> >> famed Melbourne eating place), when I stepped in a slight depression on
> >> >> the footpath and rolled my left ankle. This happenes a lot to me, since
> >> >> I squashed my left foot in a motorcycle accident 30+ years ago, but I
> >> >> usually recover quickly. This time I didn't.
> >> >> As I fell I heard, and felt, a loud "snap" in my left knee, and by the
> >> >> time I hit the ground I was screaming in agony (worse than the accident
> >> >> above), Lovely bystanders came to my aid and one asked "Should we call
> >> >> an ambulance?" I didn't hesitate for even a millisecond. "Yes!" I gasped
> >> >> in between sobs and screams (I am nothing if not expressive when it
> >> >> comes to pain. If I have to be in it, others must know that I am).
> >> >> So, after five hours of morphine, x-rays and solicitous ER nurses,
> >> >> doctors, paramedics and radiographers, I discover that I have ruputred
> >> >> my anterior and medial cruciate ligaments, and the meniscus (did I get
> >> >> those names right? I can't look it up now, as the morphine is making me
> >> >> very inattentive to detail).
> >> >> Short story: I am now unable to walk for at least six weeks, and
> >> >> probably will never walk properly again. I can look forward to three
> >> >> years of rehab, and possible surgery.
> >> >> This is a perfect outcome to cap off the last 18 months. I expect that
> >> >> my flat will be hit by a falling jet engine soon, and I won't get the
> >> >> five foot scary rabbit first. Thought you all should know why I am going
> >> >> to be very fucking grumpy over the next little while.
> >> > Damn. Philosophy is more dangerous than I thought.
> >> Surely you are familiar with falls being a fruit of the knowledge of
> >> good and evil. Perhaps Wilkins accidentally stumbled into the domain of
> >> ethics.
> >> > Rest well, and milk it for all it is worth.
> >> My sentiments too.
> >> Also, Wilkins, don't believe the bit about never walking properly again.
> >> You will just have to relearn how, is all.
> >> --
> >> Mark Isaak eciton (at) curioustaxonomy (dot) net
> >> "It is certain, from experience, that the smallest grain of natural
> >> honesty and benevolence has more effect on men's conduct, than the most
> >> pompous views suggested by theological theories and systems." - D. Hume
> >This thread was OK for a while... I even got into it for a short bit.
> >But lets face it... This has now become a steaming pile of horse shit.
> >Get on with life Wilkins... And that goes for the rest of ya too...
> Ah yes. The true milk of human kindness runs through your kidneys.
Well Hosea did say that he wanted us to drink the living water that flowed from His belly. Or was that Hoseb?
> > My medical bill for ten days in the hospital, where I nearly died
> > from pneumonia, was over $85,000 and it will take me about 20
> > years to pay it. My estate takes on the debt when I die.
> Oh, man, that's just *wrong*. That's so many flavors of wrong I don't
> know how to express it.
> Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
> skyeyes nine at cox dot net OR
> skyeyes nine at yahoo dot com
Comes from the choice to live in an uncivilized country. With the wealth the US has, it has no excuse for it's lack of basic medical care.
> >> My medical bill for ten days in the hospital, where I nearly died
> >> from pneumonia, was over $85,000 and it will take me about 20
> >> years to pay it. My estate takes on the debt when I die.
> >Oh, man, that's just *wrong*. That's so many flavors of wrong I don't
> >know how to express it.
> As Walter Bushell posted earlier today, the US is the richest
> third world country in the world.
In article <f0ffb711-4ca7-4f68-889d-6269ad220...@x17g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,
SkyEyes <skyey...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Apr 12, 6:46 pm, Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:
> > the planet than the USA.
> > The USA is the richest country in the 3rd world.
> I call sig!
OK, I'll grant you a non-exclusive use license, insofar as I am the originator. AFAIK, it's original with me, but it's so obvious, that it's hard for me to think someone else had not thought of it before. Certainly the memes that the "US is rich." and "The US is 3rd world." are common enough.
<wikit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Apr 13, 6:03 pm, Mike L <n...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 08:17:44 -0700 (PDT), wiki trix
>> <wikit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Apr 13, 10:42 am, "John S. Wilkins" <john.s.wilk...@gmail.com>
>> >wrote:
>> >> Me too, and while you're at it, can you ensure that wanker trix gets to be nearly 60, in constant pain, unemployed, alone and broke? That way he might one day realize what a prick he is.
>> >I am closer to 57 than 56. I have experienced great emotional pain
>> >over a five year period fairly recently. I was without income for
>> >three years, and in a deep depression, and I lost virtually everything
>> >that I had about six years ago and have worked very hard to regain to
>> >where I was before that fiasco. Only recently am I now in a good
>> >state. So lets all get everyone here worked up in a frenzy over
>> >that... lets hear all the pseudo-sympathy over my personal crisis and
>> >acknowledge and sympathize with my issues. Like I said... I am sorry
>> >that you got hurt. But this thread has turned into a steaming pile of
>> >horse shit. You know it wuss. Get over it... the lot of you.
>> Sounds as though you're the one who needs to get over it. Best to be
>> graceful, even if only in remaining silent.
>I am over it. You can be silent if you wish.
Have it your own way. You're more fun when you're being genuinely
witty and imaginative, though.
>>>> Yup. Left my car there while we went into DC for a Howlerfest.
>>>> See what happens when you get old...
>>>Oh I remember. You met my kids.
>>Yes I did.
>>>Talk about getting old: Nick was eight
>>>when you met him and quickly took the toy howler monkey you offered
>>>him; he's now 18 and starting DePaul in the Autumn. Amelia is
>>>finishing up her history & classics degree - technically she's taking
>>>her Junior year now at London School of Economics, but she had so many
>>>friggin' advanced placement classes (she's as studious as she is
>>>beautiful) when she entered University of Wisconsin, Madison, that
>>>she's graduating this June, and won't have to return to Madison next
>>>Fall. So... next Fall she'll be starting a Masters in Social Science
>>>Research Methodologies at LSE. But the getting old part is that...
>>>Yesterday Amelia - that pretty 11 year-old you met ten years ago -
>>>turned... 21 (twenty-one)! Gulp. [*]
>>Yeah. I know about that. It all goes so damned fast. My oldest
>>granddaughter is 11 and starting that major transition to teen-ager.
>>>The upside is the kids are basically self-winding at this point, and
>>>to a limited extent self-financing (e.g., Nick and one of his best
>>>friends, beginning last year, was *asked* to take a paying job
>>>teaching acting classes to younger High School and Middle School
>>>kids). When Amelia was in China last Summer she realized she had a
>>>couple of weeks free in August, so she looked up Craig's List from
>>>Beijing and arranged, without mentioning to us, to help with the
>>>toddler & infant of a young academic couple not far from where we
>>>live, so that they could hurry up and finish some papers on ancient
>>>Middle Eastern languages, so they'd be able to hurry up to teach at
>>>Columbia in September.
>>That's great! You will enjoy the feeling of being very proud of
>>your kids. Just don't forget to let them know.
>>>So, there we were, Lorraine and I a year ago suddenly had this odd
>>>feeling, which we eventually realized was that we actually had time on
>>>our hands! After twenty years it's eerie. We're now tired only part of
>>>the time. We've started dating again.
>>That too is wonderful. My wife and I went through that a while >>back. Enjoy it.
>>What happens now is that grandma is in high demand for child sitting
>>when mom and dad have to be away for a day or so. So grandpa is left
>>to fend for himself while she goes off to sunny Philadelphia.
>>>We entertain friends (we started
>>>a tradition of having Bob and his wife come over and follow the
>>>returns with us in the Republican primaries; we call these events
>>>"Loon Watches." Bob and Vicky also attended our annual Humanist Seder
>>>this year; so now they know exactly how the Jewish people have
>>>consistently celebrated their greatest holiday for 3,000 years.)
>>>[*] N.B: "We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the
>>>sense, and to the extent, that we respect his theory that his wife is
>>>beautiful and his children smart."
>>My eldest daughter ran a seder this year for 24 people, six of whom
>>could be classified as "kids". The Christians outnumbered the Jews
>>by a slight number. Nevertheless a great time was had by all. Much
>>wine was consumed and much food consumed. The group included folks
>>from Los Angeles and from Florida, not to mention New York. The kids
>>seemed to have a great time as well.
>>What seems to be true is that I feel the need to retire. I'll be 79
>>in a couple of weeks, and while that isn't the oldest on TO, it is
>>right up there.
>>So I've decided to pack it in at the end of this academic year. That
>>will mark 50 years at NYU. I think that's enough to call it a career.
>>One of the things I expect to do with my newly found free time is to
>>spend a bit of it in places like Washington seeing you and Bob.
>Isn't it more common to move to Florida instead of Brooklyn when you are
>planning to retire?
Supposedly. But in Florida all I'd meet are other old people.
I can do that here by just looking in the mirror.
>Congratulations on your career. May your retirement be full and
>enjoyable.
Thank you! I hope to enjoy it for a long time... ;-)
James Beck <jdbeck11...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 01:02:03 +0000 (UTC), Paul J Gans
><gan...@panix.com> wrote:
>>James Beck <jdbeck11...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>On Apr 13, 12:31 pm, Paul J Gans <gan...@panix.com> wrote:
>>>> In talk.origins Mitchell Coffey <mitchell.cof...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >On Apr 12, 1:04 pm, Paul J Gans <gan...@panix.com> wrote:
>>>> >> In talk.origins John S. Wilkins <j...@wilkins.id.au> wrote:
>>>> >> >Mitchell Coffey <mitchell.cof...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >> >> On Apr 11, 5:33 am, j...@wilkins.id.au (John S. Wilkins) wrote:
>>>> >> >> > I have long said that exercise is dangerous: that 100% of all those I
>>>> >> >> > know who are physically active injure themselves. But I never expected
>>>> >> >> > that just frigging *walking* could be so problematic and fraught with
>>>> >> >> > danger!
>>>> >> >> > I was on my way to meet some folk for lunch (Lygon Street, Carlton, a
>>>> >> >> > famed Melbourne eating place), when I stepped in a slight depression on
>>>> >> >> > the footpath and rolled my left ankle. This happenes a lot to me, since
>>>> >> >> > I squashed my left foot in a motorcycle accident 30+ years ago, but I
>>>> >> >> > usually recover quickly. This time I didn't.
>>>> >> >> > As I fell I heard, and felt, a loud "snap" in my left knee, and by the
>>>> >> >> > time I hit the ground I was screaming in agony (worse than the accident
>>>> >> >> > above), Lovely bystanders came to my aid and one asked "Should we call
>>>> >> >> > an ambulance?" I didn't hesitate for even a millisecond. "Yes!" I gasped
>>>> >> >> > in between sobs and screams (I am nothing if not expressive when it
>>>> >> >> > comes to pain. If I have to be in it, others must know that I am).
>>>> >> >> > So, after five hours of morphine, x-rays and solicitous ER nurses,
>>>> >> >> > doctors, paramedics and radiographers, I discover that I have ruputred
>>>> >> >> > my anterior and medial cruciate ligaments, and the meniscus (did I get
>>>> >> >> > those names right? I can't look it up now, as the morphine is making me
>>>> >> >> > very inattentive to detail).
>>>> >> >> > Short story: I am now unable to walk for at least six weeks, and
>>>> >> >> > probably will never walk properly again. I can look forward to three
>>>> >> >> > years of rehab, and possible surgery.
>>>> >> >> > This is a perfect outcome to cap off the last 18 months. I expect that
>>>> >> >> > my flat will be hit by a falling jet engine soon, and I won't get the
>>>> >> >> > five foot scary rabbit first. Thought you all should know why I am going
>>>> >> >> > to be very fucking grumpy over the next little while.
>>>> >> >> I know what it sounds like when you scream in agony so I certainly
>>>> >> >> understand how much this must have hurt. I hope you have health
>>>> >> >> insurance, otherwise you're really screwed. I'm saying this because my
>>>> >> >> first thought - seriously - was that you could come occupy my son's
>>>> >> >> room while you recuperate. It slipped my mind for a moment that we're
>>>> >> >> still in the dark ages here.
>>>> >> >Thanks, but Australian medical care for the poor and unemployed is
>>>> >> >pretty good (I can't say enough good things about the ER staff). As it
>>>> >> >happens I do have health insurance for ancillary stuff.
>>>> >> >> I suspect you'll get an email from Lorraine, 'cause she likes you even
>>>> >> >> more than I do. If there's anything we can do, just ask... OK, reword:
>>>> >> >> we'll keep asking you if there's anything we can do, because you won't
>>>> >> >> ask.
>>>> >> >Tell Lorraine I like her more than I do you too.
>>>> >> Now just a minute there. I've only met Lorraine once. Does
>>>> >> this mean I'm cut out and stuck with Mitch? Does he even
>>>> >> remember when I inhabited his house?...
>>>> >You were in my house?
>>>> Yup. Left my car there while we went into DC for a Howlerfest.
>>>> See what happens when you get old...
>>>People will start leaving their cars at my house? When does this
>>>windfall begin?
>>You live in Brooklyn, right? People don't leave cars at your house
>>unless they have bodies in them. People *remove* cars from your >>house except when they have bodies in them.
>I haven't lived there in several years, but you seem to be fitting
>right in.
Goes with the territory.
I used to be in the Village. I'm now in Ft. Greene.
Robert Grumbine <b...@saltmine.radix.net> wrote:
>In article <jmaj3e$8r...@reader1.panix.com>, Paul J Gans wrote:
>[trim]
>> So I've decided to pack it in at the end of this academic year. That
>> will mark 50 years at NYU. I think that's enough to call it a career.
>> One of the things I expect to do with my newly found free time is to
>> spend a bit of it in places like Washington seeing you and Bob.
> Vickie and I look forward to it. She asks about you from time to
>time.
I've spoken to my wife about it. We are thinking of perhaps
visiting Washington either late in the summer or early in the
fall. I'll be more definite later. Perhaps some of us can
get together for a bit. I know I'd like that.
Bob Casanova <nos...@buzz.off> wrote:
>On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 01:25:02 +0000 (UTC), the following
>appeared in talk.origins, posted by Paul J Gans
><gan...@panix.com>:
>>Bob Casanova <nos...@buzz.off> wrote:
>>>On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 16:39:05 +0000 (UTC), the following
>>>appeared in talk.origins, posted by Paul J Gans
>>><gan...@panix.com>:
>>>>wiki trix <wikit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>On Apr 13, 10:42 am, "John S. Wilkins" <john.s.wilk...@gmail.com>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>> Me too, and while you're at it, can you ensure that wanker trix gets to be nearly 60, in constant pain, unemployed, alone and broke? That way he might one day realize what a prick he is.
>>>>>I am closer to 57 than 56. I have experienced great emotional pain
>>>>>over a five year period fairly recently. I was without income for
>>>>>three years, and in a deep depression, and I lost virtually everything
>>>>>that I had about six years ago and have worked very hard to regain to
>>>>>where I was before that fiasco. Only recently am I now in a good
>>>>>state. So lets all get everyone here worked up in a frenzy over
>>>>>that... lets hear all the pseudo-sympathy over my personal crisis and
>>>>>acknowledge and sympathize with my issues. Like I said... I am sorry
>>>>>that you got hurt. But this thread has turned into a steaming pile of
>>>>>horse shit. You know it wuss. Get over it... the lot of you.
>>>>I am doing something about it. I'm killfiling you.
>>>Now you've done it; he posts through Gurgle and thus suffers
>>>Killfile Envy, so expect whining about "censorship".
>>I guess.
>>What bothers me is that I've been here for quite a while. I tend
>>to feel rather close to most of the regulars here, even those that
>>I've not interaced with very much, but especially those with whom
>>I have intereacted with over the years.
>>I've known John in person for some years now and consider myself
>>lucky to do so.
>>John's accident got to me. I've lived a rather good, though not
>>luxurious life, have never been out of work, or needed serious
>>medical care. My kids are all well-launched with stable jobs and
>>good families of their own. The difference between me and John
>>isn't skill or intelligence. John's got more of both than I do.
>>It is a serious matter of luck, unintended consequences, and
>>personal circumstance. I feel for him.
>>If that makes me a pile of liberal shit, then that's it. I still
>>feel for him. And I know I'm not alone in that here.
>Couldn't have phrased it better myself, although I don't see
>how friendship and empathy are uniquely liberal traits.
Agreed. I didn't mean to imply that. The reference was to
my particular bias.
>And almost no one is either "pure" liberal or "pure"
>conservative. Most who aren't one-dimensional personalities
>are a mix of traits; I certainly am.
I think you are right on with that.
>But wiki needs to learn the fine art of ignoring that which
>doesn't interest him.
